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Post by Dave on May 15, 2021 0:24:43 GMT -5
D It is time consuming just to keep talking in circles R Yep, that what's you doSpoken like an elementary student on a play groundWhat has ruwach (spirit) go to do with soul (nephesh)? You are mixing terms Dave, as your Rabbi does. Of course a Jewish Rabbi that had dedicated his life to the Torah does not know his own religion or his own language - this is your view ChristianSure the spirit is immortal, but we are talking about the soul, you don't even use verses with the word "soul " in it.You can choose not to understand – your choiceRob" Yep you are quoting verses that do not have soul in them, but you use spirit instead. Can't you fathom where the soul comes from?Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soulWait for it – once mated with his spirit man becomes a LIVING SOUL – straight from your KJVR so when we die our soul also dies doesn't it? D You are attacking basic Christianity D" No Robert – no one can kill divinity R Correct Divinity cannot die.D" DUH – immortal nepesh does not experience a mortal death R" OH, so how did Jesus die on the Cross, His soul died? Isa 53:12 Muslims ask if Jesus is GOD how can GOD die? I can answer that question. God only has an immortal soul So you deny the Divinity of ChristR Correct Divinity cannot die. + Jesus die on the Cross, His soul died?Please make up your mind – double speaker – Mr consistencyD" And now released from the biology R And now the soul is released from the biology? Really?
Ps 146:4 - Nothing released here? Only the craftsmanship of GOD returns back to GOD. The soul ceases to exist.So you deny the Divinity of ChristR Correct Divinity cannot die. + Jesus die on the Cross, His soul died?Please make up your mind – double speaker – Mr consistencyD" Energy cannot be created or destroyed No one created God and no one can kill God R Correct.So you deny the Divinity of ChristR Correct Divinity cannot die. + Jesus die on the Cross, His soul died?Please make up your mind – double speaker – Mr consistencyD" The soul is not mortal therefore it cannot die as a mortal R So you say once GOD makes a relationship , GOD cannot break a relationship.You are just changing to topic into a religiousositySo Jesus blood poured out ran down a crack into the ground, into the cracks upon box unto the mercy seat placed there by Jeremiah 20 feet under in a cave, as Ron Wyatt discovered, only the biology was poured out, the soul, OK, I get your point (but do not agree).FinallyThan you use Ecc 12:7 Then the BIOLOGY returns to the ground it came from, and the SOUL returns to God who gave it. However the text does not say that, it says Then the BIOLOGY returns to the ground it came from, and the MEDIUM (HS) returns to God who gave it. You deny the spirit - just as you deny the Trinity So your doctrine just fails all over the place R so you do now agree with me? that Man can fall from God's grace? A simple y/n would suffice. D Another circle R You make it a circle, you do not answer simplyI have said NO three times now – you just don’t like my answerMore of that academic honestyD" Energy cannot be created or destroyed No one created God and no one can kill God R Correct. Therefore immortality cannot be created nor destroyed. Therefore the soul must be created.YEP! – by God on Day 1 – all the host of heaven were createdD" You just don’t understand my answer because you deny the Trinity R I do not deny trinity, you do. Modalism is not the same as Trinity. Dozens of websites would disagree with you.And a million web-sites call Allah god – I don’t care about them – And you have not proven your opinion consistent or trustworthy Play your games – it is your choiceI know who you areD" Without God there is nothing period R wow. Therefore Dave Man cannot have an immortal soul D" When do Christ and the HS die a mortal death of flesh R I didn't say GOD is biology or mortal or flesh.Please borrow a text book from an elementary student and look up the words mortal and immortal I have posted their definition here for you twice – but my words are not valid for you
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2021 17:10:35 GMT -5
immortal [ɪˈmɔːt(ə)l] ADJECTIVE living forever; never dying or decaying.
The only thing that is living is GOD. GOD cannot create living things from matter, unless somehow GOD is imparted to that matter on a continual basis, that allows matter to be living.
You do not agree with this statement, do you?
This is what you say:
Wait for it – once mated with his spirit man becomes a LIVING SOUL – straight from your KJV
Since when is ruwach Man's soul even mixing the term "his spirit" ?
Again you do not use verses: but I will show you one
Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
The KJV does not know what to do with ruwach and ruwach written twice. so invent CAPITAL letters.
The word means "medium", "wind" is a "medium" some entity that carries energy, but not it's own energy.
The medium carrying the Father's energy, is now a medium carrying Jesus energy of salvation in humans who choose to be saved of the Father's love. The HS does both of these as an agency or conduit of the Father's love.
You cannot understand my words because you view GOD as modalism. Technically you cannot define the HS as wind either, because wind cannot be explained using modalism. Only a medium explains wind.
The air is moved by a different energy current, (not from air) from somewhere else. An energy current moves the air, and the air moves. This affect is called a medium and the air is media.
Can modalism explain this? The Father's energy creates the air, and the Father's energy moves through the air as a pulse, so the Father's energy is changed by the medium affect of this arrangement? Is this possible? Not sure? Can different expressions of the Father's power become separated from each other, so that different properties of the Father is possible? This is possible as creation, as the atoms of air are not living. But we understand the air is living in the sense it talks, moans, cries and talks like a personal Being does, so this makes the HS more than just an expressions, but a personal Being. So how does an personal being walk before the same personal being, as a medium? To be a medium one expression has to not communicate to the other being, otherwise its not a medium....
Yet we have the HS medium mediating the prayers of humans to the Father, if this was an expression the Father should know already? Why this medium at all, when the Father reads our thoughts inside before we speak them?
Dave further says: "
Of course a Jewish Rabbi that had dedicated his life to the Torah does not know his own religion or his own language - this is your view Christian
Well his logic must make sense... ruwach is not the same term as nephesh... you function as a Jew, so explain this than?
I see ruwach as a function of a Creator, and nephesh is a function of Creation. Not the same thing. Totally different. Creators cannot impart creator functions to creatures of creation.
Immortal is a Creator function, cannot be imparted to creation. If that was true Dave, humans would be immortal without the need for God anymore. Live forever.... wow...without God... now the sinning angels would love that, so would humans, sin and live forever sinning.
BUT (Dave watch my words) Immortal is a Creator function, cannot be imparted to creation unless the Creator decides to allow a part of GOD to be daily imparted with relationship with his creation. Evidence for this is the tree of life.
Re 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Every Sabbath humans "eat immortality" so "remain with ongoing living", as long as we do this, we have eternal life.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 16, 2021 3:02:38 GMT -5
Play your games – it is your choiceI know who you areD" Without God there is nothing period R wow. Therefore Dave Man cannot have an immortal soul D" When do Christ and the HS die a mortal death of flesh R I didn't say GOD is biology or mortal or flesh.Please borrow a text book from an elementary student and look up the words mortal and immortal I have posted their definition here for you twice – but my words are not valid for you (google)mortal (of a living human being, often in contrast to a divine being) subject to death. Similar: perishable, physical, bodily, corporeal, fleshly, corporal, earthly )google) immortal living forever; never dying or decaying. Similar: undying, never dying, deathless, never-ending Opposite: mortal The only thing that is living is GOD. GOD cannot create living things from matter,God can create anything he wants He certainly does not need Robert’s permissionThis is what you say: Wait for it – once mated with his spirit man becomes a LIVING SOUL – straight from your KJV Since when is ruwach Man's soul even mixing the term "his spirit" ?You can choose to deny the spirit if you want Robert – it is your choiceRom 8:16 (KJV) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Rom 8:16 The Ruach Himself bears witness with our ruach that we are children of God. Rom 8:16 αὐτὸ τὸ Πνεῦμα συμμαρτυρεῖ τῷ πνεύματι ἡμῶν ὅτι ἐσμὲν τέκνα Θεοῦ. G4151 - πνεῦμα – pneuma - ghost, life, spirit Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. It must be hard praying for the gifts of the spirit – when you deny the spiritDave further says: " Of course a Jewish Rabbi that had dedicated his life to the Torah does not know his own religion or his own language - this is your view Christian
Well his logic must make sense... Synod of Laodicea - www.newadvent.org/fathers/3806.htmCanon 29 Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.You are a Good Catholic – you follow their rules to the letterThe Jew are wrong - the Jewish religion is wrong - Jewish scripture is wrongBut it remains the foundation for Jesus ChristMat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. You admit that you specifically follow the precept of a woman You admit that you are not serious about studying language, grammar, or syntax You deny there is One True God You deny the divinity of Jesus Christ You deny the spirit And you believe that satan is a god of evil I know who you are
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2021 17:26:17 GMT -5
Synod of Laodicea - www.newadvent.org/fathers/3806.htm Canon 29 Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.
You are a Good Catholic – you follow their rules to the letter The Jew are wrong - the Jewish religion is wrong - Jewish scripture is wrong But it remains the foundation for Jesus Christ.Why do you post New Advent, written by Knight dedicated to the immaculate heart of Mary, obviously a Catholic website... not like SDA people... SDA Christians do judaize by resting on the Sabbath, because the torah says so. I also do the same. The Jew are wrong - the Jewish religion is wrong - Jewish scripture is wrong You are wrong. Hebrew scriptures are true and 100% pure. Jesus was Hebrew but not Jewish. He was killed for destroying the Sabbath ceasing day by redeeming others on Ceasing Day, is this a violation though? And for claiming to be GOD? Jesus also had to translate the Hebrew Scriptures to a Jew who could not read the Hebrew correctly.... go figure.... Lu 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he "translated" unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Would love to see how Jesus reads Hebrew.... Maybe here> Gen 49 verse 18 I have waited for Yashua YHWH. Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 16, 2021 19:43:50 GMT -5
Synod of Laodicea - Canon 29 - www.newadvent.org/fathers/3806.htmWhy do you post New Advent, written by Knight dedicated to the immaculate heart of Mary, obviously a Catholic website DUH – where would you look for a catholic Decree from 365AD – under a rock? The Jews are wrong - the Jewish religion is wrong - Jewish scripture is wrong You are wrong. Hebrew scriptures are true and 100% pure. Jesus was Hebrew but not Jewish.Then why do you expect a Messianic Jew – to forget all his education from the Torah and relearn Catholic Christianity with its satan and fallen angelsGen 49 verse 18 I have waited for Yashua YHWH.STOP IT – YOU DENY THAT CHRIST IS GOD – you call it modality(google) Seventh-day Adventists believe that Michael is another name for the Heavenly Christ, and another name for the Word-of-God (as in John 1) before he became incarnate as Jesus. ... The Word was then born incarnate as Jesus. STOP IT – YOU DENY THAT CHRIST IS GOD – you call it modalityThe SDA Christ is just an angel called Michael - and not even the Son of God100% satanologySo the SDA believe that Jesus Christ was just an angel and satan is a godand you call yourself a Christian
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 13:37:48 GMT -5
Before you mock religions different from yours be kind enough to ask and learn, I give you this kindness and I do not mock you or your views. You are welcome to believe as you wish, I only point out where we differ, but I give you my respect. Modalism is NOT the same as a trinity view, is made plain by dozens of websites, none of them are SDA, Modalism is a recent heresy that crept into the Christian church from Simon Magnus days.
The term for angel is cherub.
Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Michael means who is like elohiym, is also termed YHWH, which means He who exists, is also termed archangel, a functional descriptor of a Being who is in charge of cherub.
Da 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia
Michael is also a chief sar, or prince.
Da 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Michael also stands up here, to begin the final work of closing earth's history with SIN.
When did Michael sit down?
Da 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Da 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
The only Being suggesting sitting down is when the Ancient of Days judges the world and decides to formally give the earth and the redeemed people to the Son of Man, the prince of earth, who is like Elohiym, termed Michael.'
Ex 2:14 And he said, Who made thee a prince and a judge over us? intendest thou to kill me, as thou killedst the Egyptian? And Moses feared, and said, Surely this thing is known.
Moses is a simile of Jesus was both a sar (prince) and a judge.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,
The term in Greek comes from archo meaning to rule Mr 10:42, Ro 15:12 ; and aggelos meaning messenger.
So the term refers to a Being who rules over the messengers of GOD.
Da 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. Here a strong authority opposes the prince of the host (Michael the archangel, the ruler over the messengers of GOD)
Who is this power that opposes the sanctuary of Jesus, and throws stars to earth, opposing his salvation of souls?
The words used in the phrase give clues
Jos 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
The second verse that identifies the prince (sar) over a host. yashuah is a simile of Yashuah. Both are commanders of armies.
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Here is identified the war in heaven and on earth. The same war continues and has continued for over 6,000 years, a war about SIN, first with cherub who SIN and now with humans who SIN.
Hope this helps clarify.
Yashuah YHWH is from eternity and like Eloah YHWH. The tetragammon shows you both strong authorities, the YH the secure Father and WH the active SON. They are one in harmony and energize one source of love.
Comments on my posted grammar??
Question Gen 6:13 and Gen 7:1 "to-Noah" the prefix is joined to the Name, yet this is not seen as prefix-name, but a name? Explain why we can't do the same to Yasha with prefix?
Gen 49:18 I have waited for-Yashuah ? Yet Jews and translators split the meaning into for-salvation?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 17, 2021 14:26:34 GMT -5
The term for angel is cherub.
Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel,
Hebrew mal’akh (מַלְאָךְ) is the standard word for "messenger" cherub is one type of angel Michael is an archangel - of high rank - correct
Christ is not an angel - not even close
I will mock that statement until the cows come home
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2021 4:47:17 GMT -5
I never said Jesus was an angel. Jesus is divine, of a different kind, nothing like matter.
Do you have trouble reading my words?
D" cherub is one type of angel
R Really? You list using Jewish ideas of many orders of ?? I only see one kind, the cherub kind....
Seraphims are not angels, these are creatures of burning. They could be cherubs who have the functional descriptor of burning, as love is a burning. Come from saraph, meaning burning.
Apart from that word, the only other word is malak, a messenger.
Arch (Greek for ruler) aggelos (messenger) = archangel, one who rules over the messengers. Could be any Being ruling over other Beings.
eg Divinity rules over the messengers of divinity.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 18, 2021 10:21:07 GMT -5
R no need to mock Dave. Then why do you post this SDA garbage if you don’t support itYou have told me this I am just to lazy to search for your quote All I know about the SDA comes from you You post things as fact - then deny them - only to return and post them as fact againat least you are consistant about somethingR Really? You list using Jewish ideas of many orders of ?? I only see one kind, the cherub kind....YES Robert all Judaism and all mainstream Christianity have 9 to 10 orders of angelic type beings - each assigned to a specific task - a different area of responsibilityYou can choose not to be one of our number if you wish - Free Will
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2021 13:54:40 GMT -5
www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/qod/q08.htm “In the light of the foregoing we believe that the divine Son of God, one of whose titles is "Michael the archangel," is the leader of the angelic hosts.”What is wrong with this statement Dave? Michael, Gabriel, Uriel, and Raphael
The Talmud names four angels who would later be known as archangels, surrounding God's throne:
As the Holy One blessed be He created four winds (directions) and four banners (for Israel's army), so also did He make four angels to surround His Throne—Michael, Gabriel, Uriel and Raphael. Michael is on its right, corresponding to the tribe of Reuben; Uriel on its left, corresponding to the tribe of Dan, which was located in the north; Gabriel in front, corresponding to the tribe of Judah as well as Moses and Aaron who were in the east; and Raphael in the rear, corresponding to the tribe of Ephraim which was in the west.[16]Oh I see your problem, Jews say cherub beings are archangels (rulers over messengers)? Define an "angelic class"? It is simply a functional role, NOT another creature created by GOD? Angelic class 1 : Eze 1:5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. Angelic class 2 : Eze 1:16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. Angelic class 3: Isa 33:7 Behold, their valiant ones shall cry without: the ambassadors of peace shall weep bitterly. Angelic class 4 Eze 1:4 ¶ And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. Angelic class 6: Isa 6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; Angelic class 7: No text given, elohim, this word is used for Father in heaven, but Jews seem to refer this to angelic deities?? Angelic class 8 " Bane elohiym, Gen 6, angelic demi gods who mated with woman?? Angelic class 9 Cherubs Ge 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Angelic class 10 : Ge 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: Questions for you Dave:1) Show me torah texts where these angels are described ( Gabriel, Uriel, and Raphael ) as archangels? 2) Why do Jews see elohim as angelic class and not as the Father in heaven, eloah? 3) Some of these angelic classes are built on very few context. Is this fair? 4) What is an angelic class? A functional description or role? Correct? Not another created creature? 5) What Hebrew word underlines the actual creature by name? What about cherub? 6) Saraph simply means burning, (both verb and noun) not an angelic creature? 7) We both know and agree angels cannot have sex with humans, so this class role is nullified? D" each assigned to a specific task - a different area of responsibilityR I have no problem with that, why list all these roles as if they are 10 types of angelic creatures? What's wrong with cherub having 10 functional roles? But Jews ignore this? Why is that? SHalom
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Post by Dave on May 18, 2021 16:07:15 GMT -5
www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/qod/q08.htm“In the light of the foregoing we believe that the divine Son of God, one of whose titles is "Michael the archangel," is the leader of the angelic hosts.” What is wrong with this statement Dave?R I do support it DaveChrist is not the angel MichaelThe Angel Michael is just not another title for Christ SDA HOGWASHSo is makes the Angel Michael divine? Are all angels divine – just how may gods do you have? Christ is not an angel - not even closeI will mock that statement until the cows come home Prue satanology 101 – anything to help you miss the truth - and our real struggle Christ is not the angel Michael
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 4:04:43 GMT -5
Dave you didn't answer my questions, you are raving with something I agree with you with. Yes Jesus is no angel. Correct.
Now prove to me that Michael is an angel?
I shall prove to you Jesus is Michael. Michael is NOT an angel.
Da 10:13 Michael, one of the chief princes,
Is this verse translated correctly?
Da 10:13 (YLT) Michael, first of the chief heads,
I like this better,
Let's check for ri'shown H 07223.
Ge 8:13 in the first month,
Ge 25:25 And the first came out red, Ge 41:20 .. did eat up the first seven fat kine: Nu 10:14 In the first place
Daniel 10:13 Michael, the one first prince; Daniel 10:13 Michael, echad rishown sar;
Da 10:21 .. but Michael your prince
"Michael the archangel is in this verse contending with Satan who is the dragon. Satan and his angels fight Michael and his angels.
If this were Jesus fighting, there wouldn’t be a battle at all. Why? Jesus is all powerful and ALL MIGHTY!!! "
What someone says saying Jesus is not Michael, a ruler over angels.
Can you battle so easily with sin and sinners? Is this a war of words Jesus can easily win?
Any sinner sinning immediately ceases to exist, so immediately there is mercy. So the sinner is abusing Jesus mercy and love. Hence the sinner has an advantage for a while, since Jesus is kind.
A “Christian” group called the Seventh-Day Adventists will say that you can prove Jesus is Michael the archangel with this verse:
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Just because the Lord is descending from heaven with “the voice of the archangel” it sure doesn’t mean that the archangel is Jesus.
Jesus is descending from heaven and the voice of the archangel is heard.
The text does NOT say and another voice is heard, it says "with the voice of "
1Th 4:16 (YLT) because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,
Notice Jesus YHWH comes in the voice of the ruler over angels...
SHalom
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Post by Dave on May 19, 2021 7:24:09 GMT -5
I shall prove to you Jesus is Michael. he is a sar - prince DUH so is satan, so is the devil, so is the Chief Archon
"Michael the archangel is in this verse contending with Satan who is the dragon. Satan and his angels fight Michael and his angels.
If this were Jesus fighting, there wouldn’t be a battle at all. Why? Jesus is all powerful and ALL MIGHTY!!! "
What someone says saying Jesus is not Michael, a ruler over angels. Can you battle so easily with sin and sinners? Is this a war of words Jesus can easily win?
Only the SDA preach a weak God Only the SDA preach that your satan god is equal in power with Omnipotent God Diminish God and elevate your satan god as a strong authority = SDA satanology
A “Christian” group called the Seventh-Day Adventists will say that you can prove Jesus is Michael the archangel with this verse:
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Just because the Lord is descending from heaven with “the voice of the archangel” it sure doesn’t mean that the archangel is Jesus.
Jesus is descending from heaven and the voice of the archangel is heard. The text does NOT say and another voice is heard, it says "with the voice of "
1Th 4:16 (YLT) because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,
WOW – more of Robert’s grammar skills showing How many commas are in this sentence? Who put those commas there? Please explain the syntax of this sentence
1Th 4:16 ὅτι αὐτὸς ὁ Κύριος ἐν κελεύσματι, ἐν φωνῇ ἀρχαγγέλου καὶ ἐν σάλπιγγι Θεοῦ καταβήσεται ἀπ᾿ οὐρανοῦ, καὶ οἱ νεκροὶ ἐν Χριστῷ ἀναστήσονται πρῶτον,
G1722 - ἐν - A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), that is, a relation of rest (intermediate between G1519 and G1537); “in”, at, (up-) on, by, etc.: - among, between, …Often used in compounds, with substantially the same import; rarely with verbs of motion, and then not to indicate direction, except (elliptically) by a separate (and different) prep.
G2752 – κέλευμα - From G2753; a cry of incitement: - shout
1Th 4:16 ὅτι αὐτὸς ὁ Κύριος ἐν κελεύσματι, The supreme authority / the King himself – In as inside – a cry of incitement
ἐν φωνῇ ἀρχαγγέλου
G5456 – φωνή - Probably akin to G5316 through the idea of disclosure; a tone (articulate, bestial or artificial); by implication an address (for any purpose), saying or language: - noise, sound, voice.
The supreme authority / the King himself – In as inside – a cry of incitement (COMMA) in the tone of an archangel / in the language of an archangel
καὶ ἐν σάλπιγγι Θεοῦ and – in as in inside – the trumpet of God
Jesus is descending from heaven and the voice of the archangel is heard. The text does NOT say and another voice is heard, it says "with the voice of "
The supreme authority / the King himself – In as inside – a cry of incitement In as in inside - the tone of an archangel / in the language of an archangel and – in as in inside – the trumpet of God
If you must say In as in inside - the tone of an archangel / in the language of an archangel / or in the voice Let me clearify that no where in this sentence does it indicate it was spoken by the subject of the sentence = The supreme authority / the King himself
Please learn to translate and you will stop looking so foolish
So you have two words taken from different verses ‘cherub chata’ And a twisted verse to build a doctrine around
I will stick with the bulk of scripture
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