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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 16:08:35 GMT -5
Dave writes" Jude and 2 Peter tell us that the Gigori are held accountable for the thing they did in the flesh Sins against man and nature – in the flesh – on the ground
Rob is puzzled" You write so briefly, I never understand you, nor do you answer my questions ....."
Search Google "Jude and 2 Peter tell us that the Gigori are held accountable for the thing they did in the flesh"
And I got this first up"
6. False Teachers (2 Peter 2:1-3) 1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
Peter writes in the second and third chapters of his epistle about the unseen danger of false teachers who arise within the church. Such teachers are often unrecognized, especially in their earliest forms, partly because they profess to share a “like precious faith.” Yet, they secretly introduce false teaching, teachings which are destructive to themselves and to all who follow them.
When we think of “false teachers,” our minds immediately turn to false religions or the cults. We think of a man like David Koresh whose bizarre teachings resulted not just in his own death, but the fiery death of scores of men, women, and children at his Waco compound. False teachers do prey on the church from without, but they can also arise from within (compare Acts 20:28-30). These are the “false teachers” Peter warns us about in his second epistle.
These two chapters in 2 Peter very closely parallel the teaching which we find in Jude. Jude therefore provides an illuminating commentary on the Book of Second Peter. As we study chapters 2 and 3 of 2 Peter, we will refer to Jude’s epistle.
"Rob comments" The writer wrote much more, but essentially he is saying watch out for false teachers. "
And searching "The Grigori "
I got this
"The Grigori (from Greek egrgoroi, "The Watchers") are, in one popular version, a group of fallen angels described in Biblical apocrypha who mated with mortal women, giving rise to a race of hybrids known as the Nephilim, who are described as giants in Genesis 6:4. A different idea of the Grigori appears in some traditions of Italian witchcraft where the Grigori are said to come from ancient stellar lore. References to angelic Grigori appear in the books of Enoch and Jubilees. In Hebrew they are known as the Irin, "Watchers," found mentioned in the Old Testament Book of Daniel (chapter 4).
According to the Book of Enoch, the Grigori numbered a total of 200 but only their leaders are named:
"These are the names of their chiefs: Samyaza, who was their leader, Urakabarameel, Akibeel, Tamiel, Ramuel, Danel, Azkeel, Saraknyal, Asael, Armers, Batraal, Anane, Zavebe, Samsaveel, Ertael, Turel, Yomyael, Azazyel (also known as Azazel). These were the prefects of the two hundred angels, and the remainder were all with them." (1Enoch 7:9)
In Enoch, the Watchers are angels apparently dispatched to Earth simply to watch over the people. They soon begin to lust for the human women they see, and at the prodding of their leader Samyaza, they defect en masse to marry and live among men. The children produced by these relationships are the Nephilim, savage giants who pillage the earth and endanger humanity. Samyaza, Azazel, and the others become corrupt, and teach their human hosts to make metal weapons, cosmetics, and other necessities of civilization that had been kept secret. But the people are dying and cry to the heavens for help. God sends the Great Flood to rid the earth of the Nephilim, but sends Uriel to warn Noah so as not to eradicate the human race. The Grigori are bound "in the valleys of the Earth" until Judgment Day. (See Jude 1:6)"
So Dave, you support fallen angels, because the Book of Enoch says so, and these angels had sex with humans creating Nephilim and demi-god like creatures termed archons, but these are held in chains as Jude says. The Grigori , you say.
So where in Jude and 2 Peter does it say that specifically"
Jude and 2 Peter tell us that the Fallen Angels, are held accountable for the thing they did in the flesh -Sins against man and nature – in the flesh – on the ground"
"Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 ¶ Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves."
When I read this passage, you agreed with me angels cannot have sex with man, now you allude the fallen angels can? But you also have said fallen angels did not fall? They have no free will so cannot fall? Can you make up your mind?
"going after strange flesh" is a idiom referring to homosexuality.
Sodom was famous for this unnatural flesh process.
So you inject a new topic, when I asked you about a verse, you did not comment"
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
This verse suggest the Devil and His angels are cursed, ready for everlasting fire.
The word "cursed" suggests to me, the devil and His angels are NOT on GOD's side, nor doing God's will? Care to comment?
Rob posted "a murderer and a liar from the beginning, this implies this BEING has free will to sin Dave counters" So Lions, bacteria, viruses, cows, and birds are all free will chooses?
Rob replies, technically these creatures are missing God's perfection, but their missing is not held accountable. I have shown you this idea already
Ec 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. 21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
The passage is referring to the breath of life is all animals, but as you pointed out many if not all of them, including bacteria also sin. But only the memories of the spirit of man's development of character goes upward... the other animals who sin are NOT held accountable.
Why is this? because man was the prince of earth, the overall leader over all creation.
Ro 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation,
Adam wrought a court term upon the earth, condemnation. Something was ruled in heaven and thus changed regarding earth.
Another prince of earth gained the rightful control over all of creation, man was to care for and look after.
This is why Satan is called the prince of earth. And why Jesus came. To get back the prince right to rule over the earth.
The laws for this I posted already as well
Ex 21:22 ¶ If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
This judgement comes from the royal law of living and no kill. Does it only apply to men?
Eze 10:8 ¶ And there appeared in the cherubims the form of a man's hand under their wings.
Cherub also have shape that is functionally the same as humans, as this word "adam" implies.
Eze 9:2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar. 3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
Here we see the term "enowsh" associated with "cherub" and another term "iysh" the man clothed with lined with a inkhorn by his side.
So cherubs are functionally similar to humans, we can say both have free will and there are references in the torah that both beings can sin.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
SO if angels left their first estate with GOD and now are banished to darkness on earth, awaiting judgement, these angels who sinned are held accountable for their sinning.
Ex 21:22 ¶ If an angel strive, and hurt the Holy Spirit with child, so that her fruit depart from her (Adam and Eve are products from the compassion centre of the HS) , 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
We see the HS shrank around her children immediately upon this mischief, causing Adam and Eve to become naked. They lost the covering of glory from GOD.
Re 12:1 ¶ And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Here is the HS again as a wonder in heaven, ready to deliver the most precious human child of all, the SON of Divinity.
Re 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
But the red dragon, a chief sinning angel, is also ready...
Re 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Interesting parallels here, pointing forward and backwards, The dragon wishes to hurt the male child Jesus as soon as it's born.
And you say the dragon is on God's side, yet wanted to devour the male born Jesus with humanity as soon as it's born. Do mischief.
Why? if Jesus could be tempted to sin, than the Father would have to allow the kingdom of sinning to remain forever sinning, and the dragon would become eternal. But Jesus did not sin, the humanity was sinless, yet came fallen in the same condition as normal children experience born under woman.
Is it correct to say the HS is a mother of divinity to Jesus? yes
Ps 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Who was Jesus mother that is also termed God? The HS. How did Jesus describe the Devil, the Satan ? Jesus termed the devil father of lies, a murderer from the beginning.
Dave did not comment upon the verse I provided for assessment.
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
This verse suggest the Devil and His angels are cursed, ready for everlasting fire.
Dave says these angels are only cursed because they tricked humans to have sex with them, forming Nephilim and demigod archons.
I see.
The term devil is a broad label Dave
Re 20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan,
Is the angels are chained, why does the angel come with another chain? Why so many labels for the same sinning angel, dragon, serpent, devil, Satan, all names for the same being. "bottomless pit" a idiom for earth
6. False Teachers (2 Peter 2:1-3) 1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
Dave you are caught up in destructive Gnosticism... Did this heresy survive? no it died out because God did not want it. Only now is it coming back. The reformers from Luther's time, Wycliff, did not follow Gnostic ideas. Do you not imagine the Satan, assuming it is real, would not want his identity revealed? False writings you seek, false religion you get.
I stick to solar scriptoria, the common received text, most people copied, including the Essene who understood a pierced messiah and wrote about Him.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 9, 2021 2:22:56 GMT -5
Dave writes" Jude and 2 Peter tell us that the Gigori are held accountable for the thing they did in the flesh Sins against man and nature – in the flesh – on the ground Rob is puzzled" You write so briefly, I never understand you, nor do you answer my questions ....."Search Google -I got this(not my fault that after all this time you still havent caught on)"The Grigori (from Greek egrgoroi, "The Watchers") are, in one popular version, a group of fallen angels described in Biblical apocrypha who mated with mortal women
References to angelic Grigori appear in the books of Enoch and Jubilees. In Hebrew they are known as the Irin, "Watchers," found mentioned in the Old Testament Book of Daniel (chapter 4).Englishman's Concordance Daniel 4:13 HEB: מִשְׁכְּבִ֑י וַאֲלוּ֙ עִ֣יר וְקַדִּ֔ישׁ מִן־ NAS: and behold, an [angelic] watcher, a holy one, KJV: and, behold, a watcher and an holy one INT: my bed and behold an watcher A holy from Daniel 4:17 HEB: בִּגְזֵרַ֤ת עִירִין֙ פִּתְגָמָ֔א וּמֵאמַ֥ר NAS: is by the decree of the [angelic] watchers And the decision KJV: [is] by the decree of the watchers, and the demand INT: the decree of the watchers sentence command Daniel 4:23 HEB: חֲזָ֣ה מַלְכָּ֡א עִ֣יר וְקַדִּ֣ישׁ נָחִ֣ת ׀ NAS: saw an [angelic] watcher, a holy one, KJV: saw a watcher and an holy one INT: saw the king an watcher A holy descending According to the Book of Enoch, the Grigori numbered a total of 200 but only their leaders are named:There you are Mr Flip Flop consistent doctrine guy I knowYou have argued over and over that the second most quoted ahl text in the agl is a lie There can be no truth in Enoch – you are positive because Rome says so Now you refer to it as a validation of your view YES – the bane elohiym (offspring of a heavenly being - archon) fathered the Nephilim archon – who then fathered the Rephiem post flood – who became the evil spirits trapped to earth YES – 100% Gen 6 – 100% basic Christianity – 100% Jewish Only you deny the reality of Gen 6 and its implication to Gen 3:15According to the Book of Enoch, the Grigori numbered a total of 200 but only their leaders are namedYES – except – names don’t matter – God have many names – Christ has many names – The Holy Spirit has many names – different names from different cultures and authors over 100s of years of language drift – is not polysemy Dan 4:13 (KJV) I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven; INTERESTINGDan 4:13 (TLV)Let his mind be altered from that of a man and let an animal’s mind be given to him and let seven periods of time pass over him. In Hebrew here – the watcher have an animal mind – just (yester ra) like a cow or a termite (Self-preservation of the biology) - SELFDan 4:13 (YLT) 'I was looking, in the visions of my head on my bed, and lo, a sifter, even a holy one, from the heavens is coming down. a sifter – usually Young is pretty excellent with his treatment of GreekLXX – G2480 - ischuó: to be strong, have power (strong authority)Original Word: ἰσχύω Part of Speech: Verb Definition: to be strong, have power ἀρχή - a commencement, or (concrete) chief (in various applications of order, time, place or rank) Dan 4:17 (YLT) by the decree of the sifters is the sentence, and by the saying of the holy ones the requirement, to the intent that the living may know that the Most High is ruler in the kingdom of men, and to whom He willeth He giveth it, and the lowest of men He doth raise up over it. Dan 4:17 (KJV) This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men. Dan 4:17 (4:14) (4:14) (OJB) This matter is by the decree of the irin (watchers), and the demand by the word of the Kedoshim (holy ones), to the intent that the living may have da'as that Elyon (Most High) ruleth in the malchut haAdam, and giveth it to whomsoever He will, and setteth up over it the basest of men. OBVIOUSLY - all of these translation came from the same sourceDan 4:17 (TLV) The tree that you saw grow large and strong, whose top reached to heaven and that was visible to all the earth, Dan 4:17 (LXX) τὸ δένδρον, ὃ εἶδες, τὸ μεγαλυνθὲν καὶ τὸ ἰσχυκός, οὗ τὸ ὕψος ἔφθασεν εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὸ κύτος αὐτοῦ εἰς πᾶσαν τὴν γῆν The (LTV) is translated from the Greek (LXX)
Why does the (OJB) include Dan 4:17 (4:14) (4:14) (OJB)Answer – Different source text are differentDan 4:14 This sentence is by the decree of the watchers, this verdict by the command of the holy ones, so that the living may know that the Most High is sovereign over the realm of man and bestows it to whomever He wishes, and may set over them even the lowliest of men.’ In Enoch, the Watchers are angels apparently dispatched to Earth simply to watch over the people.Oops! – it that a war – I thought Rev 12:7 was a war – it is your proof that satan opposes God They soon begin to lust for the human women they see - they defect to marry and live among men. The children produced by these relationships are the Nephilim, savage giants who pillage the earth and endanger humanity. Yep – and they are still here among usSamyaza, Azazel, and the others become corrupt, and teach their human hosts to make metal weapons, cosmetics, and other necessities of civilization that had been kept secret. YES – and if you read the book – they act selfishly – war with one another of jealously God sends the Great Flood to rid the earth of the NephilimGen 6:7 So Adonai said, “I will wipe out humankind, whom I have created, from the face of the ground, from humankind to livestock, crawling things and the flying creatures of the sky, because I regret that I made them.” Correction – The Flood was a do over – The Book of Jubilees (that you just referenced to validate your view) tells us that after the Flood Noah complained to God about the Nephilim - after the FloodBook of Jubilees10:4. But do Thou bless me and my sons, that we may increase and multiply and replenish the earth. 5. And Thou knowest how Thy Watchers, the fathers of these spirits, acted in my day: and as for these spirits which are living, imprison them and hold them fast in the place of condemnation, and let them not bring destruction on the sons of thy servant, my God; for these are malignant, and created in order to destroy. 6. And let them not rule over the spirits of the living; for Thou alone canst exercise dominion over them. And let them not have power over the sons of the righteous from henceforth and for evermore." 7. And the Lord our God bade us to bind all. 1 8. And the chief of the spirits, Mastêmâ, 2 came and said: "Lord, Creator, let some of them remain before me, and let them hearken to my voice, and do all that I shall say unto them; for if some of them are not left to me, I shall not be able to execute the power of my will on the sons of men; for these are for corruption and leading astray before my judgment, for great is the wickedness of the sons of men." 9. And He said: "Let the tenth part of them remain before him, and let nine parts descend into the place of condemnation." 3 10. And one of us 4 He commanded that we should teach Noah all their medicines; for He knew that they would not walk in uprightness, nor strive in righteousness. 11. And we did according to all His words: all the malignant evil ones we bound in the place of condemnation, and a tenth part of them we left that they might be subject before Satan 5 on the earth. 12. And we explained to Noah all the medicines of their diseases, together with their seductions, how he might heal them with herbs of the earth. 13. And Noah wrote down all things in a book as we instructed him concerning every kind of medicine. Thus the evil spirits were precluded from (hurting) the sons of Noah. 1- The Nephilim remained after the FloodJewish legend #1 – The archon Og held onto the outside of the Ark and Ham fed him through a knot hole Jewish legend #2 – Ham hid Og in a dark corner of the Ark and fed him Enoch tells us that some of the Nephilim were Gigantic 3000 ells (what every that is) – and the Flood only covered the tallest mountain by 20 feet 2- who are the Nephilim / Archon - ; for these are malignant, and created in order to destroy. They are an Ugly abortion and introduce entropy to creation Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads. Rev 12:4 His tail sweeps away a third of the stars of heaven—it hurled them to the earth. Now the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that whenever she gave birth he might devour her child. 3- the chief of the spirits, Mastêmâ, asked God to leave 10%Why – and let them hearken to my voice, and do all that I shall say unto them; for if some of them are not left to me, I shall not be able to execute the power of my will on the sons of men; and a tenth part of them we left that they might be subject before Satan on the earth. All of creation is under His authority, and He chooses to use people and spirits, both good and evil, to bring His divine plans to pass and bring glory to Himself. “He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: ‘What have you done?’" (Daniel 4:35). YES – 100% Gnostic – God uses them as a tool to facilitate his will AND – now we know that satan the Prosecutor and agent for the Lord Can also USE the archon – to do his function – assigned task – purpose The Grigori are bound "in the valleys of the Earth" until Judgment Day. (See Jude 1:6)"2nd Book of Enoch10:1 AND those two men led me upon to the Northern side, and showed me there a very terrible place, and there were all manner of tortures in that place: cruel darkness and unillumined gloom, and there is no light there, but murky fire constantly flameth aloft, and there is a fiery river coming forth, and that whole place is everywhere fire, and everywhere there is frost and ice, thirst and shivering, while the bonds are very cruel, and the angels fearful and merciless, bearing angry weapons, merciless torture, and I said: 2 'Woe, woe, how very terrible is this place.' 3 And those men said to me: This place, O Enoch, is prepared for those who dishonour God, who on earth practise sin against nature, which is child-corruption after the sodomitic fashion, magic-making, enchantments and devilish witchcrafts, and who boast of their wicked deeds, stealing, lies, calumnies, envy, rancour, fornication, murder, and who, accursed, steal the souls of men, who, seeing the poor take away their goods and themselves wax rich, injuring them for other men's goods; who being able to satisfy the empty, made the hungering to die; being able to clothe, stripped the naked; and who knew not their creator, and bowed down to soulless (sc. lifeless) Gods, who cannot see nor hear, vain gods, who also built hewn images and bow down to unclean handiwork, for all these is prepared this place amongst these, for eternal inheritance. So Dave, you support fallen angels, because the Book of Enoch says so, and these angels had sex with humans creating Nephilim and demi-god like creatures termed archons, but these are held in chains as Jude says. The Grigori , you say.EXCEPT Enoch never calls the "Fallen Angels" In Enoch, the Watchers are angels apparently dispatched to Earth simply to watch over the people.Oops! – is that a war – I thought Rev 12:7 was a war – it is your proof that satan opposes God Precept upon precept, line upon line the doctrine of Fallen Angels is a Catholic derversion Don't understand the real enemy - just focuse upon satan and HalloweenRob posted "a murderer and a liar from the beginning, this implies this BEING has free will to sin Dave counters" So Lions, bacteria, viruses, cows, and birds are all free will chooses? Rob replies, technically these creatures are missing God's perfection, but their missing is not held accountable. I have shown you this idea alreadytechnically these creatures are missing God's perfection, but their missing is not held accountable. And I have asked you for the laws that govern animals – I have askes this of you already Why is it a sin for a lion to feed it cubs – why is it a sin for a virus to multiplyRo 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, Adam wrought a court term upon the earth, condemnation. Something was ruled in heaven and thus changed regarding earth. Court – like with a prosecutor Re 12:1 ¶ And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Here is the HS again as a wonder in heaven, ready to deliver the most precious human child of all, the SON of Divinity. Re 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. But the red dragon, a chief sinning angel, YES – The First creature of matter – The First Archon / Chief Archon – the Beast of RevelationsRe 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Interesting parallels here, pointing forward and backwards, The dragon wishes to hurt the male child Jesus as soon as it's born.The child of the WOMB of creation is CREATION – all of it The Beast is ready to devour all of it Rev 12:5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was snatched away to God and to His throne. Rev 12:6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God so they might take care of her for 1,260 days. And you say the dragon is on God's side, yet wanted to devour the male born Jesus with humanity as soon as it's born. Do mischief.DUH – God separated the choshek – The light of Gen 1:3 is the separation And the Holy Spirit and God care for the Wilderness for 1260 days (but time is not linear)Is it correct to say the HS is a mother of divinity to Jesus? yesOnly in your biological standard of God and his familyDave did not comment upon the verse I provided for assessment.Mt 25:41 - This verse suggest the Devil and His angels are cursed, ready for everlasting fire. Dave says these angels are only cursed because they tricked humans to have sex with them, forming Nephilim and demigod archons. I thought I didn’t answer – Hmmm?Why so many labels for the same sinning angel, dragon, serpent, devil, Satan, all names for the same being.Just to confuse people to cling to words"bottomless pit" a idiom for earthOnly if you deny the spiritual and only see the physical / biologyBe not of the WORLD – seek the next 6. False Teachers (2 Peter 2:1-3) Dave you are caught up in destructive GnosticismWhere is all you Torah proof Then you moved on the endless precepts of men And now you into name callingHere is the legacy of Roman Christendom WHATEVER YOU DO – DO NOT RECOGNISE THE REAL ENEMYDivide and conquer – very old tacticFirst the Catholics had to hate the Jews Then the Catholics had to hate the Protestants Then the Protestants divided among themselves and turn against one another Protestants teach that Rome is the real anti-Christ Divide and conquer – very old tacticSo curious why anyone that calls themselves a Christin would help keep the real spiritual enemy hidden6. False Teachers (2 Peter 2:1-3) Dave you are caught up in destructive GnosticismDeny the reality of the Archon if you chooseYou think it is a sin to believe man has a soul You think deny the First Fruits - First resurrection is your goal You mock the gifts of the Spirit And you promote the idea that there is more than one God Divide and conquer – very old tacticI know who you are
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2021 15:54:02 GMT -5
Da 4:13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven; (KJV)
The Aramaic word "iyr" from Hebrew 5782, 5786 is a verb meaning "blind-awakening"
and the Hebrew word 5787 is the noun that corresponds with the verb meaning "blind".
The Ancient Hebrew has the meaning of the "twisting secure head"
so I imagine this word in it's in complete state is a awakening from twisting from the ra of blindness, but one can sort of see. And in the completed state, the person becomes blind.
You are not considering the Hebrew verb and noun meanings, both words should be considered together.
Jeff Benner translates this word as "awake/blind"/"blind"
I see the word meaning "blind-awakening"/"blind"
One needs to add the incomplete state of blindness to show the twisting action of this verb.
So the word does not have a cheery positive meaning, more something cursed from sinning.
Da 4:13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven; 14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches: 15 Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth: 16 Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him. 17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
Da 4:13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold the blind-awakening of a holy one came down from heaven;
(you cannot make the verb, have a noun context, meaning watcher)
The sentence is saying a messenger-angel came down in a vision.
Da 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers,
How can this word, verb, be used as a noun?
Have to admire the difficulty of the translation process here? But the holy ones, have come to awaken the king from blindness.
The King does not see, so becomes blind like an animal for 7 years.
How you twist Scripture
D" In Enoch, the Watchers are angels apparently dispatched to Earth simply to watch over the people. Oops! – is that a war – I thought Rev 12:7 was a war – it is your proof that satan opposes God
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? (KJV)
The angels are sent to wake up the humans who cannot see, so they do not become blind. Thus these messengers are "blind-awakeners". "ministering spirits" is not a bad translation.
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
Same context here, many are blind and so do not read, and deaf and so do not hear.
Isa 29:24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine. (KJV)
Your Gnostic writings cause you to err.
Enoch did not write a book, he had perfect memory, somebody else wrote that book, and it is full of deception.
D" You think it is a sin to believe man has a soul You think deny the First Fruits - First resurrection is your goal You mock the gifts of the Spirit And you promote the idea that there is more than one God
R" now who is mocking? I do not deny man has a soul. You say our soul is eternal, while I has the soul can die, once our probation of living comes to an end. You mix terms, and introduce a "divine spark" as something humans are, hence man is eternal.
I do not deny First Fruits, Moses was raised, and Elijah was taken alive, as was Enoch. All in human bodies with the biology of flesh they had on earth. You say in heaven Elijah has some spirit body, no longer a flesh body without yester ra in it. I say it's the same body he had on earth, only the traces of ra, and all propensities of ra, have vanished. The process of salvation is to remove our propensities of ra, slowly, done by Jesus.
I do not mock the gifts of the Spirit. You mix terms saying speaking unheard words is the same as the term glossolalia, both are very different. Babbling is a simile of Babylon, confusion. God is orderly and the unheard words would have been Edenic Hebrew, the mother of all languages. Some glories man is not allowed to behold until we get to heaven.
I do not promote the idea that GOD is more than one, but in a family the love within is generated and flows as one spring, and one source. You say on one's own, one can love. This by definition is impossible. Unless the provider providing is given some response by a responder responding, the love is incomplete and thus non-defined. You can hold out your divine hands all day in tears, but unless some sinner repents and returns to your providing love, there is no love made complete in relationship. You see love is relational. If GOD is love, than GOD has to be relational as well.
You see GOD as one being, I see GOD as one system. The best simile given to us in Scripture in Eph 3:15,16 is family. But you ignore this simile.
It's a pity you do not read the torah similes as I do. Like Gordon you ignore the torah verses the do not fit with the majority of other verses.
It's as if the torah is not inspired. If the torah is inspired, than all the verses have to be in harmony, so change your simile pictures.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 10, 2021 6:07:03 GMT -5
Jeff Benner translates this word as "awake/blind"/"blind" I see the word meaning "blind-awakening"/"blind" One needs to add the incomplete state of blindness to show the twisting action of this verb. So the word does not have a cheery positive meaning, more something cursed from sinning.DUH - ARCHONDa 4:13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold the blind-awakening of a holy one came down from heaven; (you cannot make the verb, have a noun context, meaning watcher)PLEASE LEARN TO TRANSLATE instead of playing word games that violate grammarThe sentence is saying a messenger-angel came down in a vision.OH so all the men of earth had the same vision – of Archon Watchers watching them Da 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, How can this word, verb, be used as a noun?You demand that the verb satan is a noun – now you demand it is impossible for a verb to be a nounPLEASE LEARN TO TRANSLATE instead of playing word games that violate grammarGerund – noun GRAMMAR a form that is derived from a verb but that functions as a noun, in English ending in -ing, e.g., asking in do you mind my asking you?. Have to admire the difficulty of the translation process here? But the holy ones, have come to awaken the king from blindness. (google) What grade do you learn about gerunds? In this lesson plan, adaptable for grades 3-8, students use gerunds and infinitives as they predict possible movie outcomes, talk about their talents, and differentiate among multiple meanings of verbs and sentences. Participle – noun GRAMMAR a word formed from a verb (e.g., going, gone, being, been ) and used as an adjective (e.g., working woman, burned toast ) or a noun (e.g., good breeding ). In English, participles are also used to make compound verb forms (e.g., is going, has been ). (google) What grade do you learn about participles eighth gradeMiddle school students begin to learn more about grammar and complex sentence structure in the eighth grade when they are introduced to verbals, which include participles, infinitives and gerunds. You should have learned to read and write English by the 8th gradeHow can you discuss grammar of an ancient language if you don’t even understand your own gammarAND you don't undestand why others don't take you seriouslyBecause you are not serious - you are a gamer - you attempt to tear down and cast doubt and you do it with less than an 8th grade education and it shows How you twist Scripture D" In Enoch, the Watchers are angels apparently dispatched to Earth simply to watch over the people. Oops! – is that a war – I thought Rev 12:7 was a war – it is your proof that satan opposes GodCorrection – Robert saidAnd searching "The Grigori " I got this " The Grigori (from Greek egrgoroi, "The Watchers") are, … In Enoch, the Watchers are angels apparently dispatched to Earth simply to watch over the people.
D said - Oops! – is that a war – I thought Rev 12:7 was a war – it is your proof that satan opposes GodExplain yourself – you posted the reference that do not support you war proof How can a war in heaven be the same as - the Watchers are angels apparently dispatched to Earth simply to watch over the people.Enoch did not write a book, he had perfect memory, somebody else wrote that book, and it is full of deception.No proof that Moses wrote the Torah No proof that Paul wrote Hebrews Who wrote the book of Job SO – what is your pointYou continue to cast doubt upon the second most quoted ahl text in the agl - are you casting doubt on the agl as well? 2nd Enoch, The Secrets of Enoch, Slavic Enoch22:10 And the LORD summoned one of his archangels, Vrevoil by name, who was swifter in wisdom than the other archangels,
and who records all the LORD’s deeds. •And the LORD said to Vrevoil, “Bring out the books from my storehouses, and fetch a pen for speed-writing, and give it to Enoch and read him the books.” 〈And Vrevoil hurried and brought me the books,〉 a knife(?), and ink(?). And he gave me the pen for speed writing from his hand.
23 |About Enoch’s writing; how he wrote about his marvelous travels and what the heavens look like. And he himself wrote 360 and 6 books. Word “22.”|
And he was telling me all the things of heaven and earth and sea and all the elements and the movements and their courses, and the living thunder, the sun and the moon and the stars, their courses and their changes, and seasons and years and days and hours, and
the coming of the clouds and the blowing of the winds, and the number of the angels and the songs of the armed troops;
and every kind of human thing, and every kind of language (and) singing, and human life and rules and instructions and sweet voiced singing, and everything that it is appropriate to learn.
And Vrevoil instructed me for 30 days and 30 nights, and his mouth never stopped speaking. And, as for me, I did not rest, writing all the symbols and all the creatures. •And when I had finished 30 days and 30 nights, Vrevoil said to me, “These things, whatever I have taught you, whatever you have learned, and whatever we have written down, you sit down |and| write – all the souls of men, whatever of them are not yet born, and their places, prepared for eternity.
For all the souls are prepared for eternity, before the composition
of the earth.” •And I sat down for a second period of 30 days and 30 nights, and I wrote everything accurately. And I wrote 366 books.Enoch did not write a book, he had perfect memory, somebody else wrote that book, and it is full of deception.Enoch said he wrote it at God's instruction and that Book you claim is full of deception is the secong most quoted ahl text in the aglNow - who gets to pick and choose - you - or RomeD" You think it is a sin to believe man has a soul You think deny the First Fruits - First resurrection is your goal You mock the gifts of the Spirit And you promote the idea that there is more than one God R" now who is mocking? I do not deny man has a soul. Correction – Your man is only an animal - your man only has a memory that is recorded in heaven by the HS Unless you now wish to change your doctrineYour SDA Guy – Roger Mornou – “the SDA teach it is a sin to believe man has a soul” – why would you wait over a year to correct him? Ecc 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: Man is just an animal driven around by the HS Man's biology makes memories at death man goes to the grave to await resurection at death your memories as an animal are recorded in heaven by the HS upon resurection - those memoreis are the reunited with the biology R" now who is mocking? I do not deny man has a soulI can only go on what you teach me You say our soul is eternal,Absolutely – we were created eternal – just like all the host of heaven It is up to man to choose death – starting with Eve YES – I mock any doctrine that deny the gift of eternal life2nd Enoch, The Secrets of Enoch, Slavic Enoch - different translation 23:2 And Pravuil told me: 'All the things that I have told thee, we have written. Sit and write all the souls of mankind, however many of them are born, and the places prepared for them to eternity; for all souls are prepared to eternity, before the formation of the world.'Gen 2:4 These are the genealogical records of the heavens and the earth when they were created, at the time when Adonai Elohim made land and sky. YEP - man was created on Day 1 - the First Age Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. You say our soul is eternal,Absolutely – we were created eternal – just like all the host of heaven It is up to man to choose death – starting with Eve YES – I mock any doctrine that deny the gift of eternal lifewhile I has the soul can die, Absolutely - In the Second Death – The lake of Fire You mix terms, and introduce a "divine spark" as something humans are, hence man is eternal. YES – the soul / spirit within man can be referred to as a divine spark – an inner nous You deny this is possible – your man is just biology with memories YES I MOCK and doctrine that denies that man is spirit I also MOCK any doctrine that suggest creation is still ongoing - that everytime a new baby is born God creates a new man Creation took 6 days - not 5781 yearsI do not deny First Fruits, Wow – I am glad to see you have changed your doctrine More flip floppy = strong convictionsYou preached earlier that man goes to the grave and awaits to be reunited with his memories (what even elementary sunday school that came from) I do not mock the gifts of the Spirit. You mix terms saying speaking unheard words is the same as the term glossolalia, both are very different. Babbling is a simile of Babylon, confusion. First you say – you do not mock the gifts Then you say the gift of speaking in tongues is just babbling More flip floppy = strong convictions The difference between us – is I lack that Catholic Righteous Arrogance to be able to judge my fellow Christian And just what is your proof - Ah yes - You don't believe itI think that is entirely the point Robert - you cannot relate - you cannot understand - you have been taught to doubt (anti-Christian) I do not promote the idea that GOD is more than one, but in a familyWhat is a family of one? - Oh ya - first you have to get everyone to understand hebrew as you do There is only One True God and I mock anyone who continually attempts to deny it - regardless of the word game you play You say on one's own, one can love. This by definition is impossible.I can love you all by myself – you do not need to love me back – you don’t even have to respect me or my forumIt's as if the torah is not inspired. If the torah is inspired, than all the verses have to be in harmony, so change your simile pictures. Correct – you have failed miserably to prove your satan hates God – or opposes GodIn each and every verse we discuss – satan works for God helping to facilitate Gods will on earth You just assume it to be true because you defer to the precepts of a woman instead of the bulk of scripture Your own references say All of creation is under His authority, and He chooses to use people and spirits, both good and evil, to bring His divine plans to pass and bring glory to Himself. “He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: ‘What have you done?’" (Daniel 4:35). But you just cannot admit it Your God cannot be in control because the WORLD is FLAWED and full of RA Your God only made tov - your other god changed everything by his own strong authorityAnd your only response it is continually repeat your doctrinal slogan – cherub chataThis isn’t the first time you have posted stuff without reading it You go on and on about your inability to grasp the Right hand vrs the left handThen you post There’s a particular oddness about the use of “host” here rather than “angels”. The basic meaning of angels (messengers, malakim) is appropriate to the sending of a lying spirit, whereas “host” (sabaoth, armies) is not always positive in the Old Testament. The first reference to the “host of heaven” (Det.4:19, 17:3) is to forbid their worship, then we have positive mention of the Lord of Hosts at Shiloh (1Sam.1:3Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)) but then again negative references associating their worship with Baal (2Kings 17:6Open in Logos Bible Software (if available), 21:3Open in Logos Bible Software (if available), Jeremiah 8:2Open in Logos Bible Software (if available), Acts 7:42Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)). In fact, of 18 uses of the phrase “host of heaven”, at least 15 are negative, and of the remaining 3, 2 probably refer to literal stars in the sky. There are two groups – angels and archon Different groups with different functions / assignments Your own references suggest it
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 14:20:20 GMT -5
You write some much negative, I cannot but reply to them one at a time. D" You demand that the verb satan is a noun – now you demand it is impossible for a verb to be a noun
PLEASE LEARN TO TRANSLATE instead of playing word games that violate grammar
Gerund – noun GRAMMARR" I have never said the Hebrew word satan (noun word) can become a verb, its always used as a noun, nor have I said the satan (verb word) can become a noun, when it's always used as a verb. The Hebrew has both form spelled exactly the same, so it's already a gerund...duh (maybe I am using this term wrongly) What you are doing is taking, the noun form and making it into a verb, or taken the verb form and making it a noun. I assume Strong knows which form is which, and all the satan(noun form) are selected correctly, connect be used as a verb. Now the same applies to The Aramaic word "iyr" from Hebrew 5782, 5786 is a verb meaning "blind-awakening" and the Hebrew word 5787 is the noun that corresponds with the verb meaning "blind". The Ancient Hebrew has the meaning of the "twisting secure head" This word has already the verb and noun forms, same spellings, it's already a gerund. But we must use consistency.. The verb use "iyr" from Hebrew 5782, 5786 is a verb meaning "blind-awakening", must always be used in a verb sense.The noun use "iyr" from Hebrew 5787 is the noun that corresponds with the verb meaning "blind", must always be used in a noun sense.But you are saying the Hebrew 5782, 5786 is a verb, can also become a noun, this is a gerund, and this is utterly confusing, as we already have a noun form of "iyr". You should try to learn Hebrew, as I am trying to learn. My primary days of English grammar never covered such things. ----------------------------- Than you say Enoch wrote 366 books, wow. Well if they were inspired why didn't Noah take them on the boat, and all descendants copy them as sacred scriptures? How do we not know they are fakes, written after Noah's time, not before? Just like your mocking that Moses never wrote the torah, we don't know. Science only tests the present, never the past. OK so in the present copies of the common received text, we have a surviving Hebrew known as Ancient Hebrew, older than the modern Hebrew, and preserved in it. Who wrote this pictograph Hebrew? Somebody used to writing pictographs? Moses, is a strong candidate. Modern Jews say such Ancient Hebrew is not embedded inside the letters, but it is. Jeff Benner brings this out. Is there any copies of Enoch written in Hebrew so I can check its validity? Than you add " Your SDA Guy – Roger Mornou – “the SDA teach it is a sin to believe man has a soul” – why would you wait over a year to correct him?
Ecc 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death:
Man is just an animal driven around by the HS Man's biology makes memories at death man goes to the grave to await resurrection at death your memories as an animal are recorded in heaven by the HS upon resurrection - those memories are the reunited with the biologyR" Never heard of Roger Mornou... so where exactly does He say this? The Bible teaches man has nephesh, and that when we die the nephesh stops being nephesh. The rest of your words here are OK with me. Rather than memories one could also use character. I suspect you are reading biased versions. eg www.youtube.com/watch?v=87B8E25w_cQD" Correct – you have failed miserably to prove your satan hates God – or opposes GodR" I see? Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Jesus says on his left hand, ye are cursed, to everlasting non-existence, prepared for devil and his angels. Also known as dragon, serpent, devil, and satan, who deceives whole world. These two verses show satan is opposing GOD. Why? Because He ends up in the fires. Also word "cursed" and "deceive". D" There are two groups – angels and archon Different groups with different functions / assignments Your own references suggest itR you post my quotes from others as if I support them fully. Hmm? Angels Dave are archons... the term archon is not a creature, but a reference to the time when angels left their first beginnings with GOD and became sinning angels, which you term archons. I don't mind the term as it helps to make two groups, good angels and bad angels (archons). But you have two entirely different creature groups (one angel, satan functioning as a prosecutor) so why does he have other angels, and a creature not found in the torah as an origin explained, who creates the shedim who are products of archons and woman, but the father of these are also chief archon. You introduce so many different forms of beings and creatures. The Bible on the other hand just says the angels sin, and the sinning angels take on other functions such as shedim devil deceptions. If the SIN problem started from angels first, than MAN is the witness against SIN from angels, hence MAN is to replace the Sinning Angels. Hence why GOD created us as His witness. Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 10, 2021 15:28:57 GMT -5
PLEASE LEARN TO TRANSLATE instead of playing word games that violate grammarGerund – noun GRAMMAR The Hebrew has both form spelled exactly the same, so it's already a gerund...duhThen why do you say(you cannot make the verb, have a noun context, meaning watcher) Da 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, How can this word, verb, be used as a noun? Double speak – do you mean what you say or just talk And you wonder why I am having a hard time taking you seriously What you are doing is taking, the noun form and making it a verb, or taken the verb form and making it a noun. I assume Strong knows which form is which, and all the satan(noun form) are selected correctly, connect be used as a verb. PLEASE LEARN TO TRANSLATE instead of playing word games that violate grammarHow many verbs do you place in a sentence?Every language on the planet has one – how many do you have But you are saying the Hebrew 5782, 5786 is a verb, can also become a noun, this is a gerund, and this is utterly confusing, as we already have a noun form of "iyr". Only you choose to be so confused over words and vocabulary If a runner is running why don't we just say the runner is jogging If the runner is running why don't we say the runner is exersizing If jogger is running - do we say he's jogging or running - or doing cardio Only you choose to be so confused over words and vocabulary www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_Five/Participles/participles.htmlHebrew for Christians – grammar – 5.9 participles and gerundsThe page will not allow a copy and pasteuhg.readthedocs.io/en/latest/front.htmlunfoldingWord® Hebrew Grammar Infinitive Construct Functions as a noun The infinitive construct sometimes functions as an independent noun. Example: 1SA 15:22 שְׁמֹ֙עַ֙ מִזֶּ֣בַח ט֔וֹב shemo’a mizzevah tov obeying from-sacrifice good Obedience is better than sacrifice The infinitive construct may also introduce an entire clause that functions as a noun. Example: GEN 2:17 כִּ֗י בְּי֛וֹם אֲכָלְךָ֥ מִמֶּ֖נּוּ מ֥וֹת תָּמֽוּת ki beyom ‘akholkha mimmennu moth tamuth for in-day-of your-eating from-it dying you-will-die for on the day that you eat from it, you will surely die You should try to learn Hebrew, as I am trying to learn.If you were serious about learning to translate Hebrew you would begin with verb conjugations like every other translator on the planetInstead – you play word games about things you know not – you call it the Robert Method given to you by GodMy primary days of English grammar never covered such things.As I said – you come across as someone with a weak education trying to be an expert in an ancient language you cannot even translateAnd you wonder why others do not take you seriously ----------------------------- Is there any copies of Enoch written in Hebrew so I can check its validity?www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-book-secrets-of-enoch-in-hebrew-english-jediyah-melek/1137165876OverviewThis one of a kind, Hebrew/English version of the First and Second Books of Enoch, translated from the original Hebrew, is unlike any other version available. It contains precepts from the Old Testament, Apocrypha, New Testament and missing books of the Bible. The Name of YAHOWAH is written in Gold. Key Hebrew terms and phrases are in royal purple with their Strong's Concordance numbers. Detailed information on Enoch's Calendar, The Mazzaroth, and the Birth and Origin of Melchizedek. The Hebrew names of and offices of the 7 Archangels. Detailed information of the 12 orders of angels in Heaven. breakdown on who are the Watchers and who are the Nephilim. Full color photographs and charts and study tools to enhance your learning. Never heard of Roger Mornou... so where exactly does He say this?Thread Title = ROGER MORNEAUDave, man does not have an immortal soul.... that is a deception... Where does this lie come from? From Satan: Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Either GOD is true or Satan is true... Ge 2:17 .. for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Man does not have an immortal soul. The only immortal Being is GOD Oops! There is that academic integrity Double speaking flip flopper with strong convictionsR you post my quotes from others as if I support them fully. Hmm?OMG – why would you post anything false to support your doctrine? Academic integrity – being serious You ask for a logical conversation – and you post untruths to support your truthAnd you wonder why people do not take you seriously And evidently I can’t even trust your own postNever heard of Roger MorneauDave, man does not have an immortal soul.... that is a deception... Seriously Robert - I don't mean to be harsh But seriously if you want to be taken seriously - be seriousIf you want to be an expert - be one If you want to study languages - learn to translate If you want to study and learn - let's study But your cycle of talking in circles full of double speaking and inconsistancies fails to impress or witness
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2021 13:04:35 GMT -5
Greetings Dave I show from Jeff Benner's Lexicon the first two verses of Genesis, and each word as it's listed as noun/verb from the Lexicon:- beginning Noun elohiyn noun derivative. bara Verb heaven Noun earth/land noun Thus using Jeff Benner Mechanical Translation:- Genesis 1:1 in~Summit he~did~Fatten “Elohiym [Powers]” At the~Sky~s2 and~At the~Land exist Verb waste noun derivative. empty ?? noun derivative?? darkness noun derivative. masculine face Noun deep noun derivative. ruwach Noun flutter Verb water Noun Genesis 1:2 and~the~Land she~had~Exist Confusion and~Unfilled and~Darkness Upon Face~s Deep.sea and~Wind “Elohiym [Powers]” much~Flutter~ing(fs) Upon Face~s the~Water~s2 Sadly there is not iyr in Genesis or Exodus, so I cannot verify Jeff Benner translating your word you want in Daniel 4:13 But as you can see, if a word in Hebrew is a Verb it remains in the sentence as a verb and it the word is a noun it remains in the sentence as a noun. -------------------------------------------- Dave posts" PLEASE LEARN TO TRANSLATE instead of playing word games that violate grammar How many verbs do you place in a sentence? Every language on the planet has one – how many do you haveRob posts some basics on the meaning of this term gerund you post:- "quote" Gerunds: The Basics Gerunds are words that are formed with verbs but act as nouns. They’re very easy to spot, since every gerund is a verb with ing tacked to its tail. There are no exceptions to this rule.SO for your verse Da 4: Behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven; This sentence has two verbs in it. Da 4: Behold, a watching holy one came down from heaven; (Gerund use of verb) So from what I have learned, the above is all you could translate. This Hebrew word "iyr" comes in two forms, verb and noun. The verb form must always be used as a verb noun, and the noun form means "blind" and the verb form means "blind-awakening" So for me this verse should read Da 4: Behold, a blind-awakening, holy one came down from heaven The purpose of this messenger from heaven, coming to Daniel in vision was to stop Daniel's head from twisting, to allow the normally blind human to see clearly. (what iyr means)
The context does NOT suggest angels are WATCHERS, like some kind of function angels have, so you can use this term as Enoch does for angels wanting to have sex with woman, in Gen 6. Think of what Enoch is saying, assuming Enoch wrote this. The angels who are blind-awakening humans are actually going down to make them more blind by sexaully abusing them. Is this "iyr" making the blind humans see more clearly? No It's taking the word and twisting it to a brand new meaning. In fact opposite meaning to "iyr". -------------------------- www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_Five/Participles/participles.html Hebrew for Christians – grammar – 5.9 participles and gerunds The page will not allow a copy and pasteR" Nice webpage, thanks. D" If you were serious about learning to translate Hebrew you would begin with verb conjugations like every other translator on the planet Instead – you play word games about things you know not – you call it the Robert Method given to you by GodR" I try to emulate Jeff Benner, Dave. Sadly he only has translated two books of the Bible so far. His method is superior to any translator I know. If you want further discussion on this, are there any gerunds as you call them in Genesis, pick a few out and show them to me. This might help me learn. ----------------------------- www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-book-secrets-of-enoch-in-hebrew-english-jediyah-melek/1137165876R" Nice, but sadly a book, not an ebook one can use for free. ------------------------ Seriously Robert - I don't mean to be harsh But seriously if you want to be taken seriously - be seriousR" I am serious If you want to be an expert - be one If you want to study languages - learn to translateR" Sadly there are no electronic Bibles listing the Hebrew in both OT and NT, allowing me to look up even suffix and prefix, and written using Jeff Benner Ancient Hebrew, such a program does not exist. If you want to study and learn - let's studyR" thanks But your cycle of talking in circles full of double speaking and inconsistencies fails to impress or witnessR" I don't think I talk in circles....? Dave quotes " Your SDA Guy – Roger Mornou – “the SDA teach it is a sin to believe man has a soul”I quote from a SDA champion "Elder Froom" from the White Estate The words ‘immortal soul,’ ‘everlasting soul,’ ‘eternal soul,’ ‘undying soul,’ ‘deathless soul,’ ‘deathless sinner,’ are constantly in our ears; but we venture to repeat the offer to pay £1000 to anyone who will show us where any of these expressions are to be found in the Bible; nay, who will even show us where the word ‘immortal’ applies to anyone but God ‘who alone hath Immortality,’ ‘the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God,’ and those who are one with Him in Christ" So you did not show where this Roger Mornou SDA guy say– “ it is a sin to believe man has a soul” ? D" Oops! There is that academic integrity Double speaking flip flopper with strong convictionsR" What are you talking about? Dave, man does not have an immortal soul.... that is a deception... How am I inconsistent? or double flipping? (we are not talking about soul, man has a soul, we are talking about immortal soul, man does not have an immortal soul) Man only has a nephesh when the man is alive, a function from GOD, who makes the nephesh function. Dave you did not show me where this where this Roger Mornou SDA guy said– “ it is a sin to believe man has a soul” ? where is this written on the www? Can't find anything. Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 11, 2021 15:17:41 GMT -5
(google) basic grammar how many verbs in a sentence About 282,000,000 results (0.90 seconds) A sentence must have at least one primary-form verb. Each main clause can only have one primary-form verb. uhg.readthedocs.io/en/latest/front.htmlunfoldingWord® Hebrew Grammar In verbal sentences (that is, sentences with a verb), the structure of the sentence in Biblical Hebrew is: (1) the Verb, in first position; (2) the subject, in second position; (3) the object, in third position. Other grammatical elements such as Adverb, prepositional phrases, discourse Particle, etc. can be inserted at various points within that general sentence structure. In most cases, variations from the standard word order are for literary reasons or to add some emphasis (usually on the word moved to the beginning of the sentence), but this does not fundamentally change the meaning. Sometimes however, if a grammatical element (often the subject) is placed before the verb, it has implications for the general structure of a narrative and/or how to best divide up the text in smaller blocks. In these cases, the context must determine whether this introduces a new narrative or section of text, or if it indicates a break in the narrative. Poetic portions of the Hebrew Bible generally not follow the standard structure for several reasons. For example, they use a lot of nominal sentences that do not have a verb, they use parallelisms where the same thought is repeated twice, as well as other poetic tools. Behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;This sentence has two verbs in it. NO IT DOES NOT – READ A TEXT BOOKThe way you have written this = Behold(conj – particle) / a watcher (a noun – subject) and a holy hone (noun also subject) came down (verb) from heaven (prep phrase – when/where/why)) 2 subject nouns and one verbSo for me this verse should readBehold, a blind-awakening, holy one came down from heaven Now you have Behold (conj-particle) a holy one (noun – subject) a blind awakening holy one (noun uses as a adjective describing the subject) came down (verb) from, heaven (prep phrase) 1 subject noun + 1 noun as a adjective describing the subject + 1 verbLearn to translate instead of trying to make it upThe context does NOT suggest angels are WATCHERS, like some kind of function angels have, so you can use this term as Enoch does for angels wanting to have sex with woman, in Gen 6.You are absolutely correct – the watchers of Enoch are not angels – they are archon Offspring of the First Archon – bane elohiym-------------------------- www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-book-secrets-of-enoch-in-hebrew-english-jediyah-melek/1137165876R" Nice, but sadly a book, not an ebook one can use for free. Wow – it the true intellectual pursuit of academic excellence is limited by WORLD / money You should see my library – over the years = $$$$$$$$$ The joke in seminary it that we can’t afford to be Christians – also WORLD We all decide where to place our treasure Seriously Robert - I don't mean to be harsh But seriously if you want to be taken seriously - be serious R" I am seriousThen stop posting bull shit and made up stuff – open a text bookBut your cycle of talking in circles full of double speaking and inconsistencies fails to impress or witness R" I don't think I talk in circles....?You post so much stuff it is hard to understand what you believeAnd now you admit that you post a bunch of bull shit to attack me – yet you don’t even support it You have a real habit of misrepresent the fact (TWIST) just so you can make noise Dave quotes "Your SDA Guy – Roger Morneau – “the SDA teach it is a sin to believe man has a soul” So you did not show where this Roger Morneau SDA guy say– “ it is a sin to believe man has a soul” ? Dave you did not show me where this where this Roger Mornou SDA guy said– “ it is a sin to believe man has a soul” ? where is this written on the www? Can't find anything.I quoted your comments from that discussion – Dave, man does not have an immortal soul.... that is a deception... If you click on the quotation date – it will take you to that post Roger Morneau? - Watch - A Trip into the Supernatural - Roger Morneau FULL MOVIE 1ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/119/roger-morneau?page=1&scrollTo=3893We discussed Roger Morneau at lengthNot once did you ever deny himHow am I inconsistent? or double flipping? (we are not talking about soul, man has a soul, we are talking about immortal soul, man does not have an immortal soul) Same thing Robert – word man – try to slip out of your own word trap Man has a soul or he does not – PICK ONEMan only has a nephesh when the man is alive, a function from GOD, who makes the nephesh function.Man has a soul or he does not – PICK ONEImmortal = not mortal – not biology – never a mortal death Mortal – made of flesh – biology – will die are return to the earth as dust – as in your brain and your mind and your memories And this is why you preach that if a man had brain damage he cannot be saved Man has a soul or he does not – PICK ONEHow am I inconsistent?It depends – did you type bull shit then or now – it is hard to tell – when the source is not academically honest
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2021 4:59:52 GMT -5
Greetings Dave,
It seems I have overlooked something and made a mistake
Seeing active head" Noun masculine) 6MS (6MS AhYR) — Watcher: [Aramaic only] [freq.3] |kjv: watcher| {str: 5894}
Derived from
H5782 "Twisted Secure Head" "blind-awakening" Verb H5787 Twisted Secure Head" "blind" Noun masculine
Oops, I am sorry Dave, I didn't see the word is Aramaic and is a Noun, not a Hebrew word.
This Stong's is confusing, is Strongs 5894 a Hebrew word? As well as Aramaic?
SO not all words listed in Strong's in the OT is Hebrew? not sure?
Now I am way over my head, what if anything differs between Aramaic and Hebrew if the languages are nearly the same?
Jeff Benner says they are 80% the same....?
So why is iyr in Hebrew a verb, also noun but iyr in Aramaic is a noun?
Sorry I didn't see the word as Aramaic, so it is a noun, while the Hebrew is a verb form in this sentence Dan 4:13
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D"You should see my library – over the years = $$$$$$$$$ R" wow, I don't even own a single Ellen White book anymore, since my divorce all copies are lost. Lucky for us her books are free on EGWritings.org
D" Then stop posting bull shit and made up stuff – open a text book R" Sorry if I offend you, not my intention. I have an open mind and like learning from you.
D" I quoted your comments from that discussion – R you mean about Roger Morneau?
D" We discussed Roger Morneau at length R we did?
D" Not once did you ever deny him R What?
I cannot watch the movie Dave, too long, too much a cost for download.
Roger Morneau seems too much RA for me, he has disgraced SDA, assuming he is SDA, never heard of him. Many X-SDA pastors leave and rubbish the Church...
Dave posted before" The Catholic invention of Fallen Angels harms the faith in several ways 1- it teaches that God cannot handle His own creation – a full 1/3rd of the angels He made to praise and serve now hate God and are at war with God – Jews call this idea ridicules 2- it teaches than things can FALL from God’s Grace – Jews, Gnostics, and most Christians say this is riduculas 3- and it preaches a satanic deception – a false impression of the archon/shedim
So answer these questions, please Dave:
(0) Does SIN exist? (1) Is a sinner allowed to oppose God, disobey God and wander away from GOD? (1) This means GOD has no control over the sinner's free will choice? (2) When a sinner sins, does the sinner fall away from GOD, so if the sinner is temporarily allowed to exist on probation, the sinner has fallen from God's grace? (3) Do sinners exist? Than the first sinner must also exist, in the beginning?
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D" How am I inconsistent? or double flipping? (we are not talking about soul, man has a soul, we are talking about immortal soul, man does not have an immortal soul) Same thing Robert – word man – try to slip out of your own word trap Man has a soul or he does not – PICK ONE
Explain to me Dave how "nephesh" is the same idea as "immortal nepesh"
These are totally different word meanings.
Man has a soul, only when connected to GOD the soul is living. Ge 2:7 When the soul is departing, a person dies. Ge 35:18 Only GOD is living, without GOD our soul is not living. Ps 42:2 The soul must be delivered from death in order to be a living soul Ps 56:13 The soul can sin, thus must be a term describing the intelligence centre of the human. Le 4:2
Only the soul that never sins is allowed to live forever with GOD Eze 3:21 Torture can only harm the biology, not the character in the soul, only God can destroy both the biology and the soul that recorded the character of man Mt 10:28
D" Immortal = not mortal – not biology – never a mortal death R I would not say immortal means not biology, immortal is a characteristic quality of GOD, only GOD is divine and also immortal. Only GOD is living.
Creation may have living creatures in it, but the living creatures depend upon the presence of God to make them living. Immortal is a quality of GOD, nothing to do with biology. God is not of biology, matter, time or space.
D" And this is why you preach that if a man had brain damage he cannot be saved R never said that sorry.
D" Man has a soul or he does not – PICK ONE R Of course man has a soul, only when the man is living. This begs the question, where does the soul go when a man dies. It does not go anywhere, the soul just ceases to exist.
How does the soul exist then? Then God breathed into the dust, the breath of living, via the HS who functions as our comforting administrator, and the man becomes a living soul. A more Hebrew idea, is man becomes living energy.
What's the difference between rocks and man, when both have energy. Yes, but man has living energy. We can think, and do, and reproduce after our kind, and we can choose GOD as our Master. Rock and dumb creatures cannot do all those things.
Can the soul be immortal ? no, only GOD is immortal.
Can the soul be eternal? no, there is no Hebrew word meaning eternal in this sense. The Hebrew word chayah means ongoing-living, forwards everlasting living.
What about man given immortality at the last trumpet of Jesus?
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Hmm? A Greek word used 3 times.
Job 33:4 The Spirit <ruwach> of God <'el> hath made <`asah> me, and the breath <n@shamah> of the Almighty <Shadday> hath given me life <chayah> The HS is paralleled with the Shadday.
The breathing of the Shadday gives me ongoing-living.
I understand this to mean the first breathing of GOD is conditional upon grace and only for a time if we choose salvation. If we choose salvation the breath of salvation is ongoing-living.
The is what 1Co 15:53 is referring to, "put on immortality", and the JOB account is older Hebrew and thus more reliable as torah.
D" it is hard to tell – when the source is not academically honest R I always try to post my theories of faith accurately Dave, but in our brevity we often assume things to be true, and make mistakes. I do not , nor would ever mock your theories of faith, I may not agree with some aspects of Gnostic writings, but at least I respect them. Our 1100 posting is proof of my respect towards you.
I hope this post helps in some clarity, and sorry for not noting Aramaic before, I usually see OT only as always Hebrew.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 12, 2021 12:03:07 GMT -5
Sorry I didn't see the word as Aramaic, so it is a noun, while the Hebrew is a verb form in this sentence Dan 4:13 The Robert method fails you and why I keep saying – learn to translateThis Stong's is confusing, is Strongs 5894 a Hebrew word? As well as Aramaic? SO not all words listed in Strong's in the OT is Hebrew? not sure?This is one of the struggles of translationVery few languages are monolithic – while most languages are a composite of cultures Example in English – café in English is a small restaurant – in French it just means coffee In German it is just a Delicatessen When I was in Japan it was entertaining to listen to them talk Jibber jibber jibber WINDOW jibber jibber CHEVEROLET jibber jibber jibber Coke-a-Cola All my life growing up my dad would say – shoot over just a scosh – move it just a scosh It wasn’t until I was in Japan that I realized that ‘scosh’ is 100% Japanese meaning ‘just a little bit’ In Biblical Hebrew ‘el’ is a an Acadian word – many words are Chaldean – some are Phoenician – some are 100% Egyptian This was the discussion at AHR – Dan Black was the only guy I ever knew that could translate Cuneiform Now I am way over my head, what if anything differs between Aramaic and Hebrew if the languages are nearly the same?You have always spoken over your head Jeff Benner says they are 80% the same....?And English is 80% German – using a Romance Language alphabet and wordsSo why is iyr in Hebrew a verb, also noun but iyr in Aramaic is a noun?iyr in Aramaic = a city (a place guarded by waking or a watch) in the widest sense (even of a mere encampment or post). Iyr – spiritually – who walks the post guarding WORLD = Archon it is their domain/ kingdom Who are the Archon of 250 BC when the 70 Jewish Rabbis translated the LXX – the Watchers of Enoch All this does is prove – that the 70 translators were all aware of and accepted Enoch (350BC) ------------------------------------- D"You should see my library – over the years = $$$$$$$$$ R" wow, I don't even own a single Ellen White book anymore, since my divorce all copies are lost. Lucky for us her books are free on EGWritings.org If you received a book as a gift – what book would you like the mostFor me – I have long salivated over the complete Mid Rash – only $800 on sale (don’t need it – just want it) As you saw – a complete Hebrew/English Enoch = $120 (my Immnuhematology and my Genetic text books in college were both $350) Richard said he just bought me a book by Tom Horn – The Wormwood Prophesy I am sure it is only a $15 book – and I have sent $10 books away as a gifts How do we do this – are we so generous and wealthy – NO I am a card carrying preacher – I have a ministry I am a published author – I have a lot of research to do I have a published theory in the field of geophysics Technically – all I have to do is 1- buy a small advertisement in your local newspaper and publically announce a Presentation by the Pondering Confusion Foundation promoting my ministry. 2- this public meeting must be in a public location – a park will do – a church building will do – a hotel lobby will do (but not a hotel room or a private residence) 3- Then I could fly to Queensland for a two week stay to visit with you As long as I speak at the advertised time and place 100% of the trip is a business expense and a tax write off – praise the Lord – for the money trapI know a guy who lives in La Veta Colorado – he owns a "travel consulting business" He and his wife vacation in Mexico – or Europe He writes up his review and has not been able to sell any for publication So the entire trip is a business loss There is no crime in losing money at businessThe catch – as a business – you can only loose money for 3 three years – after that the IRS calls your business a hobby and you owe back taxes The game – your business go under ever three years – only to reopen the next day with a new name - and if your smart you do it with another small interest business loan 100% of the expense of being a preacher is a tax write off – praise the Lord – for the money trapWhen I worked - I always donated enough money to myself to pay zero tax is that a sin? My justification is the same one I use to evade the stock market and retirement plans All my investement goes to buy bombs and planes with guns for war So please donate - I want a new private jet - God said you should tithe - you want to be a good Christian don't you - then when you get the mailer you realize the smallest donation thay want are increments of $50 D" I quoted your comments from that discussion – R you mean about Roger Morneau? D" We discussed Roger Morneau at length R we did? D" Not once did you ever deny him R What? And I have used the expression – you say it is a sin to think you have a soul sinceYou see seriousness I watched your Walter veith - I watched your Don Patton for three days but you made many post about a video you didn't watch I cannot watch the movie Dave, too long, too much a cost for download.You will have to explain to me how internet works in Australia – I can watch the movie on my phone while driving down the road ( I admit it - I don't watch - but listen - we spend a lot of time on the road) We streamlink – why do you download Tell me why it is a cost to watch YouTube If you are paying for bandwidth (less than unlimted - my T-Mobile plan says unlimited - but slows after 50gig - and we hit that peak every month) You take your phone / tablet / laptop with you when you shop. While you are inside the grocery - in your car you could be downloading youtube videos from the Libary / coffee shop / hotel Free YouTube Downloader - Free download and software ...https://download.cnet.com › Free-YouTube-Downloader Free YouTube Downloader is a small but effective application that quickly downloads videos without any hiccups. While the design is quite plain, and there ... This is a nice software for MP4 or MP3 downloads You can select several at once - and wait on the speed If your employer has internet - you could download 25 youtube videos while your working If you do not have the storage - download them to a flash drive / thumb drive It will play in any pc with windows media player One nice thing about downloading vrs streaming - I have some videos in my pc that are no longer avaible on YouTube Personal note - we do not do television - but we live on the internet When my girls we small - Hey Dad can we watch YouTube? meant opening a folder on the pc for all the youtube videos dad downloaded and put there Roger Morneau seems too much RA for me, he has disgraced SDA, assuming he is SDA, never heard of himROGER MORNEAU AND SATAN'S COUNCIL OF THE 1700's – from TRUTHABOUTSUNDAYIs a 100% SDA presentation So answer these questions, please Dave:(0) Does SIN exist?Sin = the choice to disobey God Yes this choice exist for the creature that can choose = man Yes man has Free Will – and the only thing that means is that man can choose to disobey /sin (1) Is a sinner allowed to oppose God, disobey God and wander away from GOD?Oppose God? Adam and Eve were created as spiritual beings on Day 1 Biological Adam and Eve were created immortal – they would have never had a mortal death Except – Sin entered the WORLD through man – and Adam and Even (man) became mortal (man) became mortal – meaning from then on all men suffer a mortal death – death of biology This is the first death - wages if sin And without repentance and salvation man will also experience the second death – the death of spiritIs this opposing God – are you waring against God – NO You are simply committing spiritual suicide – you are killing yourself – you are hurting yourself Is man allowed to hurt himself or even commit suicide – YES it comes with the gift of Free WillLove comes with a risk – your words – to Give man the ability to sin is a risk God allows Why – the Reward of the Prodigal Son(1) This means GOD has no control over the sinner's free will choice?Correct – If God had control over man’s Free Will – it wouldn’t be Free Will However – this does not prevent God from reaching down to touch anyone he wants – or to use anyone he wants – to facilitate His will on earth (2) When a sinner sins, does the sinner fall away from GOD, so if the sinner is temporarily allowed to exist on probation, the sinner has fallen from God's grace?I guess it depends on what you mean by God’s Gracewww.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/six-beautiful-ways-to-understand-gods-grace.htmlWhat is the grace of God? Simply put it is God's favor and kindness toward us. God rains down grace on all mankind. He gave us the beauty and wonders of nature that we see each and every day. ... He often brings us the right thing just in time. And He also gave us an innate conscience to know right from wrong. All these things are common graces, and everyone born on the earth has the benefit of them because God so loved the world. To me – God’s Grace = the fact that He still loves me even tho I fall short and am a sinnerthe sinner has fallen from God's grace?So – NO – no one can fall from the Love of God(3) Do sinners exist? Than the first sinner must also exist, in the beginning?It all began with Eve – or Adam and Eve – who are every man / any man / mankindRom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. ------------------------ D" How am I inconsistent? or double flipping? (we are not talking about soul, man has a soul, we are talking about immortal soul, man does not have an immortal soul) Same thing Robert – word man – try to slip out of your own word trap Man has a soul or he does not – PICK ONE Explain to me Dave how "nephesh" is the same idea as "immortal nepesh"DUH – immortal nepesh does not experience a mortal deathEcc 3:21 Who knows that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth? Ecc 12:7 Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. These are totally different word meanings. Man has a soul, only when connected to GOD the soul is living. Ge 2:7The soul is life and life livesWhen the soul is departing, a person dies. Ge 35:18Yep – when the soul leaves the body as spirit – the biology diesLuk 23:46 And Yeshua, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I entrust My spirit.’” When He had said this, He breathed His last. Only GOD is living, without GOD our soul is not living. Ps 42:2E = mc2 – God is the E that sustains all the m via the c2 SpiritThe soul must be delivered from death in order to be a living soul Ps 56:13YES – repentance and salvation is required to evade the death of spirit The soul can sin, thus must be a term describing the intelligence centre of the human. Le 4:2So you preach that brain damaged or retarded stupid people can be saved Intelligence is a function of the brain and education and has NOTHING to do with the soul Under all your intelligence you just know some things are right or wrong A guilty conscious is contradictory to intelligence Your soul is a deeper thing within you than your brain You soul allows you to think with your heart D" And this is why you preach that if a man had brain damage he cannot be saved R never said that sorry. Yet you demand that your soul is only your intelligence and education – brain and biologyOnly the soul that never sins is allowed to live forever with GOD Eze 3:21YEP! – and those wo have received the Divine Pardon You are a Christian – why omit salvation – it is the point of ChristianityD" Man has a soul or he does not – PICK ONE R Of course man has a soul, only when the man is living. This begs the question, where does the soul go when a man dies. It does not go anywhere, the soul just ceases to exist. So you are demanding that the soul / spirit of man is just biologyCan the soul be eternal? no, So you deny the promise of eternal life
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2021 14:29:57 GMT -5
D" Who are the Archon of 250 BC when the 70 Jewish Rabbis translated the LXX – the Watchers of Enoch All this does is prove – that the 70 translators were all aware of and accepted Enoch (350BC R" I see
I quote from Bibles for Jews, an email I get every day or so.
"On Shavuot, Adonai supernaturally poured out the Ruach HaKodesh on Yeshua's followers so they were empowered to live a holy, Spirit-led life and be his witnesses—in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth! They moved out of the realm of the natural into the supernatural, as can all believers in Yeshua. While keeping the Torah is not how we are saved, we nevertheless strive to live holy lives, set apart from the world. Why? Because we are saved. That holiness leads us to love, which is the whole point of the Torah. “For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'" (Galatians 5:14; see also Leviticus 19:18) Yes, Shavuot is a very important festival for all followers of Yeshua, both native-born and those “wild branches” grafted into the natural olive tree. In fact, two loaves of leavened bread called the Shtei HaLechem were brought to the Temple and offered on Shavuot. Those loaves can be understood to represent Jew and Gentile."
"While keeping the Torah is not how we are saved, we nevertheless strive to live holy lives, set apart from the world. Why? Because we are saved" This is also a SDA understanding of the role of the torah. If Messanic Jews understand things so well, how is it that we are also so different? ------------------------
I am a published author – I have a lot of research to do What research do you do?
I would like to purchase an ion meter which William Reich invented and do some research into the biosphere of heath, study orgone energy on plant foods.
100% of the expense of being a preacher is a tax write off – praise the Lord – for the money trap Isn't this living on falsehood, why not pay a full tithe to GOD as promised in the torah and expect a blessing you cannot receive. This is what I would do, that way I am challenging GOD and GOD, not me, increases my blessings. Shalom
D" So please donate - I want a new private jet - God said you should tithe - you want to be a good Christian don't you - then when you get the mailer you realize the smallest donation they want are increments of $50
R Why don't you seek or support God's promises on tithe? Your practices as you explain them seem shady to me.
D" Tell me why it is a cost to watch YouTube R My wife, which I also pay, costs $50/month and we watch vidoes and UTbes all the time, she gets a shaped speed if her data allowance is exceeded.
As for myself, I pay a yearly fee , it used to be $150 for a whole 30GB, and so I download. Daily I get 8MB download just reading emails, and writing to you. It's unfair.
Once I uploaded to my own website and read my own website, nothing else and go a download of 5MB. I woudl love to criticize their system, my entire website is only 20MB and I fail to understand upload and download files of 15Kb or 50KB, my largest, can lead to 5MB.
This is 100 files, and my webpages, even if I read 20 pages, which I didn't does not have 5 50KB images on them, most of my images are smaller.
If you could get a smaller version of Roger, like I did as a link, but I find Roger distasteful, and I do not like listening to occult stuff or dead spirit stuff, its a deception, a trap, ...
Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word,
The torah says not to listen, visit or think about wizard, familiar spirits, etc. Sure I agree the fallen angels do do such things and deceive many, but I do not need to listen to such things.
As for Roger if he engaged in this, he is off the track.
D" You take your phone / tablet / laptop with you when you shop. R I do not own such things, I do not even use a phone. I do use a computer, that is www ready.
D" This is a nice software for MP4 or MP3 downloads You can select several at once - and wait on the speed
If your employer has internet - you could download 25 youtube videos while your working
R My understanding you cannot download U tubve videos anymore, they blocked this. I have about 150 videos and that is it, they stopped dowloads years ago. You have to pay money to download such things. I used to download files as flash FLV files the lowest quality available, again to save on download cost and speed.
D" If your employer has internet - you could download 25 youtube videos while your working You are not allowed to do this. But others on campus do. You are not allowed to do priviate viewing and wasting business time, but others do. I don't. I never did this as a teacher either. It's unethical and a form of stealing, breaking the royal commands of GOD.
Everybody knows I am the only "christian" whatever that means, and so I have to witness. not that is my only motive, I do what I do because the torah says so and God loves me, so I support Him back and GOD supports me. I give at work 100% of my time and I do not steal or borrow or use any privileged myself.
The only time I use the www is at home, at roughly 3am in the morning, faster speeds than, everybody is sleeping.
D It will play in any pc with windows media player I play my files in flash, that is 1/10 the quality of a MPEG file or larger file. For example the Muslim video, evidence for GOD is fantaskic, I have the whole 2 hour thing about 270MB,
"The Signs of God's Existence - Documentary [Full Length]" and in a full quality video the download would be much larger than that.
I don't download anymore, can't do it, not allowed, have to pay.
D"Is a 100% SDA presentation R Your kidding, a 0% SDA presentation, it's a disgrace
(2) On the second question we have troubles with SIN.
You say "Biological Adam and Eve were created immortal " Explain to me how a quality of GOD, can be imparted to humans?
God is not of matter, time or space, so how can a creature Created by a Creator, be anything less than the Creator? A Creator cannot create something divine, that is a quality that GOD only has. So explain this conundrum to me.
Again we disagree with what MISSING means....
You are simply committing spiritual suicide – you are killing yourself – you are hurting yourself
I would say no to this idea. chata means MISSING.... if a child wanders off the path and go missing, how many relationships also are missing?
Oh only the child is missing, does not matter , the parents do not care, Does not the parents immediately seek the child who is missing.
Once a woman touches Jesus, yet dozens touched Jesus carelessly, but one touch Jesus purposefully. And Jesus cared for that one.
If you are missing, you are by definition missing GOD in your life and GOD by definition is MISSING you in HIS life. That is what SIN means, the exchange of love is missing. SIN is not some crime you do alone, not some suicide thing a human does, SIN is a loss of loving between GOD and His creature. So when you miss that love intentionally, you are by definition opposing that love God wants to shower you with.
To a wicked person such love is heaping hot coals on his head. Love makes wicked people get angry, they hate weaklings, and love is seen as weak by them. Only the strong survive they say. But love is seen as a weak force by them.
Why would a child intentionally break away from love that only cares for you? What a tough question?
Love comes with a risk – your words –
Yes Dave, love requires a provider love completed by a reponder love, one must respond. If you do not respond, you are missing out on that love, and hence opposing that love.
D" I guess it depends on what you mean by God’s Grace We have problem with (3) also.
A sinner is not allowed to live.
The penalty for missing love, is to receive less life in your body, so you die immediately. Love is life, you cannot miss out on love and not life. If you are living it's because of God's kindness towards you. Simple.
D" So – NO – no one can fall from the Love of God R" Oh. what about the unpardonable sin condition than? Why did Sodom happen than?
I see we have problem with (3)
It all began with Eve – or Adam and Eve – who are every man / any man / mankind
So GOD does not have other free will creatures in His Creation?
How could we seek answers to this question? Or arn't we allowed to ask the Bible?
D" DUH – immortal nepesh does not experience a mortal death R" OH, so how did Jesus die on the Cross, His soul died?
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. (KJV)
We have both different defining of death. Muslims ask if Jesus is GOD how can GOD die? I can answer that question.
God only has an immortal soul, yet Jesus who is divine, has qualities of GOD, died, and his soul also died. How is this possible?
One has to ask what is death? Not the cessation of biology. GOD is not biology. You need another defining process.
D" The soul is life and life lives R No, the soul lives because GOD lives with us, only GOD is living, without GOD we are not living.
R Only GOD is living, without GOD our soul is not living. Ps 42:2 D E = mc2 – God is the E that sustains all the m via the c2 Spirit R answer the question? do you agree, only GOD is living, man is not living unless partnered to God?
D" So you preach that brain damaged or retarded stupid people can be saved Intelligence is a function of the brain and education and has NOTHING to do with the soul Under all your intelligence you just know some things are right or wrong A guilty conscious is contradictory to intelligence Your soul is a deeper thing within you than your brain You soul allows you to think with your heart R I suggest you study all the verses with nephesh in them, the term more or less refers to the essence centre, not just the brain, but the brain, the memories, the character, the emotions, the all of you, that makes you a living energy. Even Jesus has a soul. But Jesus is also immortal , something humans are not. Jesus is not of biology, but humans are.
Jesus came and took up our humanity, and its flesh. The exchange the wages of sinning demands, means Jesus carries that biology forever for us, so we can experience the power of ongoing living in us in exchange. One day we see and feel the scars in His body, the only traces of RA allowed to exist in the new heaven and earth, no more sin allowed.
D" YEP! – and those wo have received the Divine Pardon You are a Christian – why omit salvation – it is the point of Christianity Explain?
D" So you are demanding that the soul / spirit of man is just biology
Can the soul be eternal? no, So you deny the promise of eternal life
Explain? you are too brief.
When you connect to GOD, do you not experience His love, that is eternal? You need nothing else, in fact love is all you need. Is the soul merely biology? no
Listen to the way the soul comes to be.....
Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
God comes into the dust as a mystery and man BECOMES "living energy".
wow. Miracles. We are partnered to GOD? Yes. If GOD lives in you and makes you living energy, you do not require anything else. I would describe the soul as a presence, rather than as a present from GOD. And once you have the presence of GOD, you are like GOD able to live, and do and think and love, show love and receive love.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on May 12, 2021 16:30:10 GMT -5
D" Tell me why it is a cost to watch YouTube R My wife, which I also pay, costs $50/month and we watch vidoes and UTbes all the time, she gets a shaped speed if her data allowance is exceeded.
As for myself, I pay a yearly fee , it used to be $150 for a whole 30GB, and so I download. Daily I get 8MB download just reading emails, and writing to you. It's unfair.(wiki) Activ8me is the Trading Name of Australian telecommunications carrier and Internet service provider operated by Australian Private Networks Pty. Ltd. Activ8me specialise in regional and remote Australian telecommunications and are the largest provider of satellite broadband services in Australia. Activ8meActiv8me - Sky Muster 300GB Sonic 300GB Data - nbn™ Satellite No Contract Term - $54.95/mth View Full Results ~ Last Updated 13 May 2021 www.whistleout.com.au/MobilePhones/Search?calls=-1&sms=-1&data=50000&simonly=true&customer=Personal&address=Emerald+QLD&tab=all25 phone plans near Emerald QLd 300gig for $65 60gig for $29 55 gig for $35 R My understanding you cannot download U tubve videos anymore, they blocked this. I have about 150 videos and that is it, they stopped dowloads years ago. You have to pay money to download such things. I used to download files as flash FLV files the lowest quality available, again to save on download cost and speed. (google) Is it legal to download YouTube videos in Australia? In most cases, you need direct permission to download videos from YouTube. ... There is no general exception or licence that covers this for educational purposes. This means the copyright owner's permission is needed before each video may be copied. (If you read the page this pertains to redistribution without credit) (google) Is it illegal to download videos from YouTube for personal use in Australia? Though it is against YouTube's Terms Of Use to download anyone videos except your own for use with any other videos or projects (which involve copyright credits), using it to watch offline TV without using as much internet is perfectly fine. (google) how can I download YouTube for free in Australia Free YouTube Downloader is a small but effective application that quickly downloads videos R My understanding you cannot download U tubve videos anymore, they blocked this.You are just making excuses – perhaps you should do so research D" If your employer has internet - you could download 25 youtube videos while your working You are not allowed to do this. But others on campus do. You are not allowed to do priviate viewing and wasting business time, but others do. TWIST so you can posture your own versionYou take your phone / tablet / laptop with you when you shop. While you are inside the grocery - in your car you could be downloading youtube videos from the Libary / coffee shop / hotel If your employer has internet - you could download 25 youtube videos while your working Just where do I suggest - to do priviate viewing and wasting business timeTWIST so you can posture your own version so you have an excuseThe torah says not to listen, visit or think about wizard, familiar spirits,So the Torah prevent you from being an all-around student of God’s wordNot sure you grasp the precept – or you are just looking for an excuseAs for Roger if he engaged in this, he is off the track. YES CORRECT – the Catholic doctrine of fallen Angels is a catholic mythYou say "Biological Adam and Eve were created immortal " Explain to me how a quality of GOD, can be imparted to humans? DUH – Adam and Eve would have never suffered a physical death / a mortal death if Even had not sinned (disobeyed God)Once a woman touches Jesus, yet dozens touched Jesus carelessly, but one touch Jesus purposefully. And Jesus cared for that one. (1) This means GOD has no control over the sinner's free will choice?Correct – If God had control over man’s Free Will – it wouldn’t be Free Will However – this does not prevent God from reaching down to touch anyone he wants – or to use anyone he wants – to facilitate His will on earthD" So – NO – no one can fall from the Love of God R" Oh. what about the unpardonable sin condition than? Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit- YEP – unpardonable and God who is love loves all the way top the Lake of Fire and Loves you as you are consumed – God is LoveWhy did Sodom happen than?Duh - Crimes against man and natureSo GOD does not have other free will creatures in His Creation? How could we seek answers to this question? Or arn't we allowed to ask the Bible?Your only verse in the last two years is always cherub chata Which isn’t even a verse – it is only two words taken out of the middle off a sentence to stand aloneEzk 28 precept upon precept is all about man Isa 14 is all about man Gen 3:15 is all about man D" DUH – immortal nepesh does not experience a mortal death R" OH, so how did Jesus die on the Cross, His soul died?ABSOLUTLY NOT – Luk 23:46 And Yeshua, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I entrust My spirit.’” When He had said this, He breathed His last. The Spirit – the soul –m Christ the Son of God – returned to God Only Jesus the Son of man died on the cross – only biology died R Only GOD is living, without GOD our soul is not living. Ps 42:2 D E = mc2 – God is the E that sustains all the m via the c2 Spirit R answer the question? do you agree, only GOD is living, man is not living unless partnered to God? E = mc2 – God is the E that sustains all the m via the c2 SpiritOnly the soul that never sins is allowed to live forever with GOD Eze 3:21 D" YEP! – and those wo have received the Divine Pardon You are a Christian – why omit salvation – it is the point of Christianity Explain?DUH – John 3:16 – perhaps you should refresh yourself with the basicsD" So you are demanding that the soul / spirit of man is just biology Can the soul be eternal? no, So you deny the promise of eternal life Explain? you are too brief.R" OH, so how did Jesus die on the Cross, His soul died?R an the soul be immortal ? no, only GOD is immortal. Can the soul be eternal? no, there is no Hebrew word meaning eternal in this sense. The Hebrew word chayah means ongoing-living, forwards everlasting living.OH I SEE - word man – everlasting life is different than eternal life Only you choose to stumble over words and vocabularyWhat about man given immortality at the last trumpet of Jesus?Is this a gift you receive extra as a reward – noInstead with a Divine Pardon – you are plucked for the fire as a hot cole = salvationExplain? Why you doubt the redeeming power of Christ
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2021 4:19:24 GMT -5
Thanks for going to the trouble to look up Emerald Qld phone plans, I will consider them.
Dave when I try to learn or ask you to explain, you never do, always too brief? Are you sick of defending your theories of faith with me?
You write"
The Spirit – the soul –m Christ the Son of God – returned to God Only Jesus the Son of man died on the cross – only biology died
So Jesus' biology died, does this include a soul, like ordinary men have, so when we die our soul also dies doesn't it? However your rabbi says the soul lives, after mortal death, so our soul never dies than? immortal soul, you say?
What about these Scriptures than?
Nu 23:10 Let me die the death of the righteous, ..
Can you translate this for me?
Nu 23:10 Let me my soul die like the righteous,
Plain enough? Let my soul die...
Jos 2:13 ..and deliver our soul from death. Ps 33:19 To deliver their soul from death, Ps 56:13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death:
Many verses like this do not say our soul goes anywhere except death. The soul dies when our mortal living ends.
Isa 53:12 Jesus hath poured out his soul unto death:
So Jesus soul it says here died for our sins, otherwise his death was not a sin-offering. So please explain what you are saying? If Jesus soul never died He wasn't a sacrifice for sin-offering. Perhaps you get around this by saying Jesus has two souls? please explain.
D" OH I SEE - word man – everlasting life is different than eternal life
R ongoing-living refers to living forwards in time secular term eternity refers to time forwards as well as backwards. Time does not exist with GOD There is no Hebrew word for backwards in time, only forwards in time. (olam) I hope I have explained myself. Some www scholars say time doesn't exist, anyhow, only a forward consciousness of events, ie living in forward time.
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D" Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit- YEP – unpardonable and God who is love loves all the way top the Lake of Fire and Loves you as you are consumed – God is Love
Why did Sodom happen than? Duh - Crimes against man and nature
R so you do now agree with me? that Man can fall from God's grace? A simple y/n would suffice.
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Again you do not answer Dave, is it so hard to teach somebody who wants to learn your theories of faith?
R Only GOD is living, without GOD our soul is not living. Ps 42:2 D E = mc2 – God is the E that sustains all the m via the c2 Spirit R answer the question? do you agree, only GOD is living, man is not living unless partnered to God? D E = mc2 – God is the E that sustains all the m via the c2 Spirit
You still do not answer my question. You seem to be agreeing with me. Without GOD nothing is living, and your immortal so called soul is no longer immortal, is this correct? Nothing is immortal except GOD alone.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 13, 2021 14:49:54 GMT -5
Dave when I try to learn or ask you to explain, you never do, always too brief? Are you sick of defending your theories of faith with me? It is time consuming just to keep talking in circles We have had this conversation more than once – more than several times – and here we are full circleSo Jesus' biology died, does this include a soul, Luk 23:46 And Yeshua, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I entrust My spirit.’” When He had said this, He breathed His last. Scripture says – Christ commented His spirit to GodFrom God we came and to God we returnEcc 3:21 Who knows that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth? Ecc 12:7 Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. I commend my spirit: …, he gave up the ghost.(stupid Catholic word) I commend my spirit: …, he gave up the spiritdoes this include a soul like ordinary men have, YES – we are made in the image of God Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth (LIVING CREATURES) Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, - with the ability to choose Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,(LIVING CREATURE – yester ra) and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (LIVING SOUL – spirit – yester tov) Cows termites and frogs are all – (yester ra) – they are only interested in self-preservation (SELF) Angels are only (angels – yester tov angels if you must) Archon are only (archon – yester ra - WORLD) Man = Let us make man in our image, - with the ability to choose Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. YEP – man = (yester ra) from biology + (yester tov from our spirit within / soul) This is why – The Rabbi all say – man is the CREATURE that can CHOOSEso when we die our soul also dies doesn't it? You are attacking basic ChristianityEcc 3:21 Who knows that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth? Ecc 12:7 Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. However your rabbi says the soul lives, after mortal death, so our soul never dies than?YES – Life Lives after death YES – I am a Christian and I believe in Life after Death1Pe 3:18 … being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Only Jesus the FLESH / biology died upon the cross Christ / The Spirit returned to God / the heavens and continued to witness of God’s glory No Robert – no one can kill divinityYou deny basic Christianity and the divinity of Jesus Christ immortal soul, you say?The soul is not mortal therefore it cannot die as a mortalOur Spirit / Soul is not biology and will never have a biological death and decay into the ground like and animal Ecc 3:21 Who knows that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth? Ecc 12:7 Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. What about these Scriptures than?Nu 23:10 Let me die the death of the righteous, .. Plain enough? Let my soul die... Balaam is a man – this is called a lamentJob 3:11 Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly? This is called a lament – giving up the ghost (hate the word) – giving up the spiritH1478 –גָּוַע - A primitive root; to breathe out, that is, (by implication) expire: - die, be dead, give up the ghost, perish. The opposite ofGen 2:7 … and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Jos 2:13 ..and deliver our soul from death. Ps 33:19 To deliver their soul from death, Ps 56:13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: Many verses like this do not say our soul goes anywhere except death. The Second death – the only death you need to worry aboutMat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Isa 53:12 Jesus hath poured out his soul unto death: So Jesus soul it says here died for our sins, otherwise his death was not a sin-offering. So please explain what you are saying? If Jesus soul never died He wasn't a sacrifice for sin-offering. Perhaps you get around this by saying Jesus has two souls? please explain. Jesus hath poured out his soul unto death:Jesus – the animal – the man – the biology – died Did His Soul die? – NO – it was poured out – released – let go – gave up the Ghost – gave up the spirit Ecc 12:7 Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. And now released from the biology 1Pe 3:18 … being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Christ – in the invisible realm – continued to witness God’s gloryD" OH I SEE - word man – everlasting life is different than eternal lifeSome of us who call ourselves Christian see God as the beginning of everything--------------- D" Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit- YEP – unpardonable and God who is love loves all the way top the Lake of Fire and Loves you as you are consumed – God is Love Why did Sodom happen than? Duh - Crimes against man and nature R so you do now agree with me? that Man can fall from God's grace? A simple y/n would suffice.Another circleNO – because it depends on how you define grace lifehopeandtruth.com/change/grace/what-is-grace/What is grace? The biblical term grace describes God’s unmerited love and favor. God, through His grace, gives us the opportunity to receive the blessing of having our sins forgiven www.christianity.com/theology/what-is-grace.htmlGrace is the opposite of karma, which is all about getting what you deserve. Grace is getting what you don't deserve. Divine grace - Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Divine_grace Christianity[edit] ... Grace in Christianity is the free and unmerited favour of God as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowing of blessings Grace describes God’s unmerited love and favor of God What is unmerited love? – It is unrequited You insist God is Love – Your God can be nothing but love – you say Now you claim that God only loves some? My God even loves your satan god and will shed a tear as He throws him into the Lake of Fire You insist God is Love – Your God can be nothing but love – you say But now you say God cannot have unmerited love You deny basic Christianity – and contradict yourself---------------------- Again you do not answer Dave, is it so hard to teach somebody who wants to learn your theories of faith? R Only GOD is living, without GOD our soul is not living. Ps 42:2 D E = mc2 – God is the E that sustains all the m via the c2 Spirit R answer the question? do you agree, only GOD is living, man is not living unless partnered to God? D E = mc2 – God is the E that sustains all the m via the c2 Spirit You still do not answer my question. You seem to be agreeing with me. Without GOD nothing is living, and your immortal so called soul is no longer immortal, is this correct? Nothing is immortal except GOD alone.Thus using Jeff Benner Mechanical Translation:- Genesis 1:1 in~Summit he~did~Fatten “Elohiym [Powers]” At the~Sky~s2 and~At the~Land E (Fattened into) m and c2 God is the E of the all God is the 1st dimensional singularity – that no man can see or even locate Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, … Energy cannot be created or destroyed No one created God and no one can kill God Energy can only be translated E= c2 God at distance The 2nd dimensional planar reality – we call the ether / the matrix / the medium of all creation Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, … Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: Energy can only be translated E= c2 or transmuted into m – E=m in a 3D form The 3rd dimensional reality we call physical creation Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. Joh 1:1 … and the Word was God. You still do not answer my questionYou just don’t understand my answer because you deny the TrinityWithout GOD nothing is living, Without God there is nothing periodNothing is immortal except GOD alone.You deny the Trinity therefore you deny that Christ is God or that the HS is God When do Christ and the HS die a mortal death of flesh When does the angel Michael die a mortal death of flesh And the promise of eternal life is a lie Because we were created at the beginning of time – this means we cannot live forever Living for an eternity is different than an eternal life You just choose to stumble on vocabulary Anything to keep from seeing the truth in scripture Anything that causes missing – and you sure miss most of the Christian basics
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2021 19:27:56 GMT -5
D It is time consuming just to keep talking in circles
R Yep, that what's you do Ecc 12:7 Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. What has ruwach (spirit) go to do with soul (nephesh)? You are mixing terms Dave, as your Rabbi does. Sure the spirit is immortal, but we are talking about the soul, you don't even use verses with the word "soul " in it. R so when we die our soul also dies doesn't it?D You are attacking basic ChristianityEcc 3:21 Who knows that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth?
Ecc 12:7 Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.R However your rabbi says the soul lives, after mortal death, so our soul never dies than?D YES – Life Lives after deathRob" Yep you are quoting verses that do not have soul in them, but you use spirit instead. Can't you fathom where the soul comes from? Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul Dust + breath of HS (medium) (using power from GOD) = nephesh (soul) SO there are three terms here BIOLOGY + HS (medium) (spirit) = SOULDeath is the separation of BIOLOGY from HS (medium). Technically the soul does not go anywhere, the term "soul" cannot be created or destroyed, The term "soul" comes to be when the relationship of matter to divinity occurs. In other words MATTER cannot be living with a soul until GOD (who is living) becomes partnered to Matter, thus the matter becomes a soul. D" YES – Life Lives after deathWho's life lives after death? Man cannot live without GOD, so man has no life except GOD imparts life to man. You speak in riddles. Only God is living. Who's life lives after "death of the soul"? GOD lives. Only God is living. D" No Robert – no one can kill divinityR Correct Divinity cannot die. But you do not understand death do you? Only God is living, separate GOD from Matter, and the matter is no longer living. Separate a member of GOD from another member of GOD and the living process is interrupted. But you cannot fathom that because your God is only modalism. Therefore you cannot define death. And you twist the verses of Jesus death. D" The soul is not mortal therefore it cannot die as a mortalR So you say once GOD makes a relationship , GOD cannot break a relationship. Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; God can and does divorce you, hence you stop living and your soul goes away. It's a broken relationship that ends. What causes this broken relationship? SIN does. D" The Second death – the only death you need to worry aboutOh so if the soul is immortal how come the second death can kill the immortal soul? D" Jesus hath poured out his soul unto death: Jesus – the animal – the man – the biology – died Did His Soul die? – NO – it was poured out – released – let go – gave up the Ghost – gave up the spiritEcc 12:7 Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
And now released from the biologyR Finally you write enough for me to see what you are saying. First you twist the vocabulary, poured out unto death is NOT the same as dying unto death.
So Jesus blood poured out ran down a crack into the ground, into the cracks upon box unto the mercy seat placed there by Jeremiah 20 feet under in a cave, as Ron Wyatt discovered, only the biology was poured out, the soul, OK, I get your point (but do not agree). Than you use Ecc 12:7 Then the BIOLOGY returns to the ground it came from, and the SOUL returns to God who gave it. However the text does not say that, it says Then the BIOLOGY returns to the ground it came from, and the MEDIUM (HS) returns to God who gave it. What happens to the term SOUL? Nothing, the term just vanishes. Take some nails and boards and a Creator and make a box. Ge 2:7 And the LORD Creator Made a Box from the nails of the ground, and nailed the boards together; and Lo' there became a Box. What is a Box? The relationship of the nails, boards and the Creator's craftsmanship. What is death? When the relationship ends, nails removed, boards not together and Craftsmanship not seen. What happens to the Box? It vanishes as the relationship ends. Dave and you Rabbi are saying the Box is immortal part of the boards or nails, you're mixing terms. D" And now released from the biologyR And now the soul is released from the biology? Really? Ps 146:4 His breath (Medium-HS) goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (KJV) Nothing released here? Only the craftsmanship of GOD returns back to GOD. The soul ceases to exist. Other verses say same thing : Ps 104:29; Ec 12:7; Isa 2:22; 1Co 2:6 R so you do now agree with me? that Man can fall from God's grace? A simple y/n would suffice.D Another circleR You make it a circle, you do not answer simply D My God even loves your satan god and will shed a tear as He throws him into the Lake of FireR Great Dave, so this satan god, your words, must have fallen from God's grace? otherwise He would not be thrown into the lake of Fire? Who said anything about a Lake of Fire? Isn't GOD's love a lake of fire, and only those saved are fireproof? D" Now you claim that God only loves some?R God loves all things, including sinners, but hates their SIN. D" Energy cannot be created or destroyed No one created God and no one can kill GodR Correct. Therefore immortality cannot be created nor destroyed. Therefore the soul must be created. D" You just don’t understand my answer because you deny the TrinityR I do not deny trinity, you do. Modalism is not the same as Trinity. Dozens of websites would disagree with you. D" Without God there is nothing periodR wow. Therefore Dave Man cannot have an immortal soul, because a created soul is always fully dependent upon their Creator. And without GOD there is nothing period. D" When do Christ and the HS die a mortal death of fleshR I didn't say GOD is biology or mortal or flesh. Since you cannot view GOD other than modalism, you cannot fathom any other view. So you cannot answer questions as I pose. But I can, because the torah does not teach modalism. D" You just choose to stumble on vocabulary Anything to keep from seeing the truth in scripture Anything that causes missing – and you sure miss most of the Christian basicsR Yes Dave, we do not even agree on amanuah, or even salvation the Being. You stumble on vocabulary Gnosticism keeps you blind And yes you miss the Christian basics. I will pray for you. Shalom Shabbat.
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