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Post by Dave on May 5, 2021 10:13:29 GMT -5
R" One has to ask the question Dave, deceive the very elect, remember the prophecy. So how can we be sure these are inspired? Test them against known torah,. I have done tests using Martin Luther material and find it 70% inspired, possibly a lack of material to test for, or a non-inspired prophet.
Only 70% inspired? Why not 63.5% or 72.6% As I check the historical record of written scripture – ONLY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH has the power to decide if a text is inspired by God
CATHOLIC RIGHTEOUS ARROGANCE
Any writer who is not a prophet, is non-inspired by definition, hence not considered worthy of consideration, one must draw a line somewhere. And yet you turn to Jeff Brenner, Walter Veith, and Don Patton What percentage of inspired are they 21% or 83%
And all prophetic writers have to be 100% inspired, or the whole of the writer's writings are false. Word man – there you are – Prophetic writers write prophesies -
That includes my Ellen White too. I believe she wrote down all the Lord Jesus told her to write, nothing is secular. However she did write secular stuff, that is not considered the Spirit of Prophecy. So because she wrote non-prophetic stuff we can throw her all away – your religion
John wrote the Gospel of John, 3 epistles, and Revelations – but because he wrote something else that Rome did not like all of him must be discarded Peter wrote in and out of the agl – he must be discarded Paul wrote on and out of the agl – all of him must be discarded
I have tested some Gnostic writings and find them unworthy of consideration, All you have done is follow Romes Index - Good Catholic
Your opinion is meaningless – I will be judged in Spirit by Spirit
Any prophet who has a 100% match for all these words, I would see as inspired. So any man could trick you as long as they knew how You stick to your Robert Method – I’ll place my trust in the SPIRIT
Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Ruach ha-Kodesh whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you everything and remind you of everything that I said to you.
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D" Or answer the question - why is it a sin for the deceiving spirit to obey Jesus or God R" In answer to the rest of your post, I read your response – I did not see a YES or NO in =your response A non-answer – an attempt evade – not straight forth – just religious talk Way to take a firm position
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Post by Dave on May 5, 2021 11:32:05 GMT -5
I am beginning to see your view, with GOD sending or allows a deceiving spirit. However I would not see this as the deceiving spirit being on GOD's side, rather as GOD allowing the deceiving spirit permission to do what comes naturally to him, ie do more sinning. BINGOCows just do what they do – If I send them into your garden they will just do what they do Termites just do what they do – if you have then in your house they just do wat they do A bacteria or a virus – just do what they do Is it a sin to be a cow, termite, bacteria, or virus –NO Because it has nothing to do with seeking God or World – they are just World Are they on the same side as God? Or do they Oppose God? Answer – neither - it has nothing to do with seeking God or World – they are just World What if God send the locust, frogs, lice, gnats unto Egypt Are they sinning – NO – they are just doing what they do What if God send the ANGEL OF DEATH unto Egypt Is that angel sinning – NO – it is doing what God told it to do God send satan upon Job – is satan sinning by obeying the Lord? You have yet to answer – my answer = NO he is obeying the Lord God saint satan upon David (1 Chr 21) – is satan sinning by obeying the Lord God sent a deceiving spirit upon Ahab – is that satan sinning? Why is it a sin to obey the Lord? You have so far failed to answer because precept upon precept, line upon line scripture contradicts your Great Controversy and your Ellen White Only God is in control – His Plan / His Will on earth as in heaven Satan is an angels being used by God to facilitate God Will on earth The shedin/archon/principalities are tool being used by both God and satan to test humanity Nothing has ever FALLEN from God’s grace – rediculas No one ever imagined such a satanic theology until Rome invented it Rome invented it to diminish God and elevate satan to a position of strong authority And then they hid away any writing of the archon reality So when the archon return – no one will recognize the truth of scripture Your Great Controversy with its Catholic Catechism of Fallen Angels is the Great DeceptionIf the torah lists shedim with angels, this is not technically correct, the writing lists shedim with messengers. Both words are functional descriptors, not words about creatures. If the Great Deception is not about creatures – they who are the aliens?Aliens - the next false religion to sweep the world - that is already sweeping the worldCorrect Sinning angels dressed up to deceive millions, even the entire world, except 144,000 and the chief angel appears as Jesus in dazzling light as antichrist. You really have to make up your mind – if you believe You are for and against – no consistency just opposition talk talk talk And you just cannot make any head way with your neighbor – or me
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2021 14:04:04 GMT -5
D" What if God send the locust, frogs, lice, gnats unto Egypt Are they sinning – NO – they are just doing what they do
R" God is not mocked, a man reapeth what he sowth. If a Being sins, that Being gets RA. The locust, frogs, lice, gnats and death are all elements of RA, the consequences of sin, that some BEING had done before.
You ask "Are they sinning – NO – they are just doing what they do" technically this is correct, but they are allowed to do their RA because some sinning had already taken place in the hands of some higher BEING held accountable for his relationship to GOD. And so if you SIN against GOD, GOD will allow agencies of RA to come over you and give you the fruits of SIN you desire. Who are these agencies of RA and where do they come from?
1 Kings 22 answers your question , from a deceiving medium. God allows the deceiving medium to enter, since the sinner rejects the true medium of GOD.
These animals you list, were worshiped as gods in Egypt, so the true GOD is simply allowing the Egyptian gods to drive their lives as these would normally be driven. Who is the overall provider of RA, the Father of lies, and Father of deception, the Father of Sinning? Jesus answered that question, the devil shedim, also called satan. With angels or messengers that are cast out with him. Texts I showed you but you ignore. And the only text that links shedim to cherub through the word chata, you also ignore.
D" What if God send the gods of Egypt unto Egyptian humans Are these animal gods of Egypt sinning – NO – they are just doing what they do
R" Think about your question? Is GOD opposed to GOD? God created his animals with tov and perfection. They do not normally have ra in them. Now they do have ra. Where does RA come from? From any Being who sins, GOD has to make RA observable to the sinner, because normally under GOD RA or SIN is not allowed to exist. DO you get this idea? Or do you wish to ignore my questions again?
But your entire religion is based on GOD creating RA as a good thing in His universe, violating all the verses of RA, GOD cannot create archons of RA, or anything of RA, your Gnostic writings are deceiving you. Such ideas are NOT found in the torah. Sure darkness is found there, and darkness is RA, yes, but this darkness came from some Being choosing to SIN, again you ignore the verses.
D" What if God send the ANGEL OF DEATH unto Egypt Is that angel sinning – NO – it is doing what God told it to do
Who is this angel of death also called the destroyer?
Ex 12:23 the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer
Ex 32:7 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
IS GOD actually the destroyer, or do we destroy ourselves by sinning?
De 4:16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image,
IS GOD actually the destroyer, or do we destroy ourselves by sinning? Man was NOT to make animal gods into a god power. Man is choosing to destroy themselves.
De 31:29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves,
Destroy is written twice, poor Moses feared this...
Ps 78:43 How he had wrought his signs in Egypt, and his wonders in the field of Zoan: 44 And had turned their rivers into blood; and their floods, that they could not drink. 45 He sent divers sorts of flies among them, which devoured them; and frogs, which destroyed them. 46 He gave also their increase unto the caterpiller, and their labour unto the locust. 47 He destroyed their vines with hail, and their sycomore trees with frost. 48 He gave up their cattle also to the hail, and their flocks to hot thunderbolts. 49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them. 50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence; 51 And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham: 52 But made his own people to go forth like sheep, and guided them in the wilderness like a flock. 53 And he led them on safely,
Ps 78:56 Yet they tempted and provoked the most high God, and kept not his testimonies: 57 But turned back, and dealt unfaithfully like their fathers: they were turned aside like a deceitful bow. 58 For they provoked him to anger with their high places, and moved him to jealousy with their graven images.
Ps 78:61 And delivered his strength into captivity, and his glory into the enemy's hand.
There is your answer there, GOD handed them over to the enemy...
Ps 78:63 The fire consumed their young men;
Which Being is the enemy with fire? a Saraph creature? humans? no. angels? yes
Have you ever studied Scripture and found that GOD has enemies?
an enemy did this
Lu 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Only an enemy would demand the sin of pride
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Jesus came to destroy the enemy of GOD, who promotes sin.
D" God send satan upon Job – is satan sinning by obeying the Lord? You have yet to answer – my answer = NO he is obeying the Lord
R" Ask the question, why was man placed on earth with RA and darkness already on it, and a serpent man was to avoid.
Obviously a war in heaven ended with a war on earth. Hence GOD wanted witnesses to end this war. A witness has to be a law abiding citizen of GOD without sin, to destroy the father of sin.
Adam was to be a witness against sin, and the angels that live on earth and sin. God limited the sinner to a single angel first up, only the chief angel could tempt man to sin.
This is why GOD boasted about Job to Satan, the angel under trial for treason. This human I have saved will witness and destroy you...have you considered him?
The angel under trial for treason considered the question and tried to make out Job was acting from self rather than from love.
Why would God require a sinning angel as a prosecutor when this angel is guilty of sinning? The only ones who judge sinners is GOD, read the Bible. Sinning angels only accuse the brethren.
D" God sent satan upon David (1 Chr 21) – is satan sinning by obeying the Lord God sent a deceiving spirit upon Ahab – is that satan sinning?
R" I suspect we are not understanding Hebrew correctly. The language of words is not understood.
GOD is the Creator of Creatures, and has overall control. If a creature challenges GOD by sinning, than GOD has to act and react. You do not see this idea, nor are you willing to consider the direction of this thought. 1Kings 22 says GOD said to the deceiving medium, go...and deceive.
Why was it sent to deceive, because Ahab wanted to sin. And wanted fruits of this sin.
I ask you a question, can you sin without GOD reacting? This answer is no. If GOD left you alone you would cease to exist. If GOD allowed you to sin by grace, the sin would not exist. So GOD has to allow sin to exist. If GOD allows you by grace to exist, and be sinning, and allow the father of sinning, to make your sin fruitful with ra, than God is allowing the sin and its fruit to allow you to walk in a certain direction.
So who technically upholds the sinning angels and the sin and ra they do ? GOD does. Does this mean GOD sees SIN and sinning angels as beings on His side , doing His will? NO, these agencies of SIN are by definition opposed to GOD and everything good things GOD stands for and created for good.
You do not see this idea.
D"Why is it a sin to obey the Lord? You have so far failed to answer because precept upon precept, line upon line scripture contradicts your Great Controversy and your Ellen White
R" A sin cannot ever be considered obeying the Lord. Sin is by definition transgression of God's law. Sin is therefore opposing GOD. Like a resistor. Like friction. Like entropy. These things also oppose GOD and wear GOD out, by restricting His flow of energy and order. God is wearied by SIN and can only tolerate so much sinning before reacting against sin in judgement. The final agency of SIN to be dealt with is the Father of SIN, the first angel who choose to SIN. The torah verse you ignore.
D" Only God is in control – His Plan / His Will on earth as in heaven Satan is an angel being used by God to facilitate God Will on earth
R" Yes God is in control, but SIN is opposing GOD. Why do you write Satan is an angel who volunteered to do God's will? 1 Kings 22? What was GOD asking for Ahab? Ahab is a king who wants to SIN, who will go and help Ahab to SIN? Many mutter this and that. Finally the chief sinner who sins spoke up and said I will go and influence Ahab to further sin, since Ahab wants to Sin. AND GOD said to the sinning angel, go.
I do not see this as evidence of GOD seeing sin as a thing to do God's will. Nor a sinning angel doing God's will either. But GOD simply allowing the sin to be manifest. Somebody has to be in charge of the sin and the sinning, and that Being is the first angel who decided to sin. God is allowing this father of lies, permission to go.
If Ahab repents and returns to the God of love, what will GOD do? Stop the sinning angel from being master of Ahab. So who is in control of this overall destiny of man? God is. So who is in control of this overall destiny of SIN? God is.
D" The shedin/archon/principalities are tool being used by both God and satan to test humanity
R" Really? God uses SIN and SINNERS (another label for sinning angels) to test Humans to SIN? Why? God cannot do that? God allows you to be tried and tempted by SINNERS because that is what we humans are here for, witnesses for GOD, and thus speak out against the SINNERS. One day humans will prosecute angels for their sinning, humans who are law abiding and declared sinless by Jesus.
D" Nothing has ever FALLEN from God’s grace – ridiculous
R" Really? Grace is GOD's reaction to sinning. Do creatures sin? Therefore they fall from grace if their sinning is so great that God grants them what they wish for ? eternal death.
The wages of sinning is eternal death, the law says.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:21 ¶ But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
So yes you can fall from grace, and allow sin to kill you eternally.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 5, 2021 22:39:08 GMT -5
D" What if God send the locust, frogs, lice, gnats unto Egypt Are they sinning – NO – they are just doing what they do R" God is not mocked, a man reapeth what he sowth. If a Being sins, that Being gets RA. The locust, frogs, lice, gnats and death are all elements of RA, the consequences of sin, that some BEING had done before.Wow what a clear answerYou ask "Are they sinning – NO – they are just doing what they do" technically this is correct, but they are allowed to do their RA because some sinning had already taken place in the hands Correct they are not sinning But now you force Job to be a sinner thus the reason he suffers ra Sorry – doesn’t keep with precept upon precept1 Kings 22 answers your question , from a deceiving medium. God allows the deceiving medium to enter, since the sinner rejects the true medium of GOD. YEP – God asked for a voltmeter to be a deceiving spirit in service of the LordThese animals you list, were worshiped as gods in Egypt, so the true GOD is simply allowing the Egyptian gods to drive their lives as these would normally be driven. The Egyptian god of lice – don’t remember that one on a text bookD" What if God send the gods of Egypt unto Egyptian humansYour version of my words so you can argue against yourself to make noiseAre these animal gods of Egypt sinning – NO – they are just doing what they do The Robert Method - Miss represent me – so you can e argue against yourself to make noiseR" Think of your question? Is GOD opposed to GOD? God created his animals with tov and perfection. They do not normally have ra in them. Now they do have ra. Where does RA come from? From any Being who sins, GOD has to make RA observable to the sinner, because normally under GOD RA or SIN is not allowed to exist. DO you get this idea? Or do you wish to ignore my questions again? God makes your ra so ra is available for the sinner to ra Religious double speak – You admit God creates the ra – and argue God cannot do raD" What if God send the ANGEL OF DEATH unto Egypt Is that angel sinning – NO – it is doing what God told it to do Who is this angel of death also called the destroyer?Identification not necessary – answer the question Why is it a sin for your angels who serve God to serve GodD" God send satan upon Job – is satan sinning by obeying the Lord? You have yet to answer – my answer = NO he is obeying the Lord R" Ask the question, why was man placed on earth with RA and darkness already on it, and a serpent man was to avoid.Robert Method – change the topic - Man is here to Jer 1:5 Back to the question - Why is it a sin for your angels who serve God to serve GodWhy would God require a sinning angel as a prosecutor when this angel is guilty of sinning? So – you are taking a stand finally – it is a sin for an angel to serve the lordThe only ones who judge sinners is GOD, read the Bible. Read Zec 3Sinning angels only accuse the brethren.- the job of being a prosecutorNotice this passage from my Hebrew English translator, Ellen White" " Satan is “the accuser of the brethren,” and it is his spirit that inspires men to watch for the errors and defects of the Lord's people, and to hold them up to notice, D" God sent satan upon David (1 Chr 21) – is satan sinning by obeying the Lord R" I suspect we are not understanding Hebrew correctly. The language of words is not understood.1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel. Was satan obeying the Lord or not?2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of Jehovah was kindled against Israel, and he moved David Or is your God actually your satanGOD is the Creator of Creatures, and has overall control. If a creature challenges GOD by sinning, - so God is not in control or notD"Why is it a sin to obey the Lord? You have so far failed to answer because precept upon precept, line upon line scripture contradicts your Great Controversy and your Ellen White R" A sin cannot ever be considered obeying the Lord. The why is your satan sinning every time he goes on a mission for God?D" Only God is in control – His Plan / His Will on earth as in heaven Satan is an angel being used by God to facilitate God Will on earthR" Yes God is in control, but SIN is opposing GOD. Why do you write Satan is an angel who volunteered to do God's will? 1 Kings 22? Quote "he Acts of the Apostles, p. 52.1 (Ellen Gould White) Satan has made his boast of what he can do. He thinks to dissolve the unity which Christ prayed might exist in His church. He says, “I will go forth and be a lying spirit to deceive those that I can, to criticize, and condemn, and falsify.” 1 Kings 22:23 – BibleTools.infohttps://bibletools.info › ... He says, “I will go forth and be a lying spirit to deceive those that I can, to criticize, and condemn, and falsify.” Fact – the deceiving spirit of 1 kings 22 is a volunteer Fact – Your Ellen White attributes this quotation to your satan Do you not know your own words?Short memory or just trying to deny that you taught me this D" The shedin/archon/principalities are tool being used by both God and satan to test humanity R" Really? God uses SIN and SINNERS (another label for sinning angels) to test Humans to SIN? Why? Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man: Because He doesn’t do it directly – He has a stff for thatSo yes you can fall from grace, and allow sin to kill you eternally.Joh 6:36 But I told you that you have seen Me, yet you do not believe. Joh 6:37 Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and anyone coming to Me I will never reject. I choose to believe Jesus Christ over you
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 4:05:01 GMT -5
Feb 17, 2021 at 5:03am robertt said:
Quote "he Acts of the Apostles, p. 52.1 (Ellen Gould White) Satan has made his boast of what he can do. He thinks to dissolve the unity which Christ prayed might exist in His church. He says, “I will go forth and be a lying spirit to deceive those that I can, to criticize, and condemn, and falsify.”
1 Kings 22:23 – BibleTools.infohttps://bibletools.info › ... He says, “I will go forth and be a lying spirit to deceive those that I can, to criticize, and condemn, and falsify.”
Fact – the deceiving spirit of 1 kings 22 is a volunteer Fact – Your Ellen White attributes this quotation to your satan
Correct Dave , Satan said "“I will go forth and be a lying spirit to deceive those that I can, to criticize, and condemn, and falsify.”
But you fail to notice "Satan thinks to dissolve the unity which Christ prayed might exist in His church".
If Satan goes to dissolve the unity in the Church of Jesus, than Satan is opposing the salvation process Jesus wants to conduct among those humans wishing to be saved by Jesus.
Satan and Jesus oppose each other. One being wants humans saved, the other being wants humans lost. One wants the sinner to stop sinning, the other wants sinners to keep on sinning.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 6, 2021 10:21:59 GMT -5
Correct Dave , Satan said, I volunteer to do God’s Will – Satan said , I volunteer to help facilitate God’s Plan – God said how will you do it – and Satan said, “I will go forth and be a lying spirit to deceive those that I can, to criticize, and condemn, and falsify.” – and God said go do it
But you fail to notice "Satan (World and the masters of this World – archon) thinks to dissolve the unity which Christ prayed might exist in His church".
If Satan (WORLD) goes to dissolve the unity in the Church of Jesus, than Satan (WORLD) is opposing the salvation process Jesus wants to conduct among those humans wishing to be saved by Jesus.
YEP – WORLD wants you to embrace YESTER RA (SELF) and don’t seek the SPIRIT
Satan and Jesus oppose each other. Gen 3:15 says – the Contest is between man and WORLD and man and the offspring of satan ARCHON the masters of WORLD
One being wants humans saved, the other being wants humans lost. One wants the sinner to stop sinning, the other wants sinners to keep on sinning. YEP – one desires the SPIRITUAL PRODIGAL SON – and one is just PHYSICAL WORLD One desirers you to Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven – and one says – don’t think of it just focuse on your job, your wealth, and your health = WORLD
1Jn 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1Jn 2:16 For everything in the world—the desire of the flesh, the desire of the eyes, and the boasting of life—is not from the Father but from the world. 1Jn 2:17 The world is passing away along with its desire, but the one who does the will of God abides forever.
Joh 15:18 “If the world hates you, know that it has hated Me before you. Joh 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own. But you are not of the world, since I have chosen you out of the world; therefore the world hates you.
Mat 16:26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world but forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
Can The BEAST of revelations be call a satan – sure it is a verb Can the Devil be called a satan – sure Can the bane elohiym be called satans – sure Can evil spirits be called a satan – sure Can the Nephilim be called satans – sure Can Peter be called a satan – sure it is a verb
And none of this has anything to do with Catholic Fallen Angels
1Jn 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. Who is the master of the physical WORLD - The BEAST, with his generals (devils) and his offspring (Gen 3:15) bane elohiym (Gen 6)
1Jn 4:5 They are from the world, so they speak from the world and the world listens to them.
Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may discern what is the will of God—what is good and acceptable and perfect.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 14:34:40 GMT -5
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Why is this good angel with all his other good angels cursed by Jesus than into the everlasting fire, Dave? Explain this?
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