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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2021 15:56:26 GMT -5
D"In our own reality – Einstein taught – I got on a rocket ship and went as fast as light – time would slow for me – but not for you If I return in 1 day – you many have aged 60 years – or I might be looking at your great grandchildren
R" You are silly Dave. Since when are all the people on earth in separate space ships and different frames of reference? DO you even understand this term? Relativity does not apply if all the people and all the events on earth happen on earth, inside the same space ship, ie the earth itself. (same frame of reference) Listen to the science people, they are saying the dinosaur bones are million years old? Cannot be. Otherwise Job must also be a million years old, and we can count Job by counting time backwards, Job lived about 4,500 years ago according to the counting of Bible from people who lived according to earth yom time.
D"Time is relative – to the viewer Gen 1 = God’s time – 6 days Gen 1 – does not = 1 day from man’s perspective – it appears much longer R" Yes maybe, but only if you are on a different frame of reference, NOT if you are on / inside the same spaceship of earth.
D"ARE ALL EQUALLY POSSIBLE DEPENDENT UPON THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE VIEWER ARGUMENTS OF TIME ARE STUPID AND JUST A DISTRACTION R" We are supposed to be talking about local time inside the spaceship of earth itself, as defined by the rotation of earth relative to the sun, so on earth time is linear and defined as one yom at a yom. The fact one yom may span differently in time to another yom, is irrelevant to the discussion. The fact is the earth cannot be older than the counting times recorded in Genesis, otherwise the Bible is a fraud.
RP" Well if time does not matter, why do science videos present it so much Dave? D" BECAUSE THE REAL FACT IS THE ORDER R" have you got your mind in the clouds?
RP" The Noachian Flood? took 440 days of linear time. D" Happened within Day 7 R" There you go again, on another frame of reference. from heaven, day 7. From inside the space ship of earth, the yoms go on and on, and we count the yoms, called local time Dave. OUR local frame of reference.
But you discuss a different frame of reference.
RP" So what confusing ideas are you presenting? You even introduce gap time? What is that? D" LET’S DISCUSS CREATION – NOT A FLAWED SCIENTIFIC MATH PROBLEM!
R" SO now you refuse to acknowledge your ideas of time? and the science flawed presentation that the dinosaurs are a million years old, making the Bible counting of time a fraud? So why do you trust the Bible if the Genesis counting of time is false? What else is false?
SO now your day 7 thing is extended for a million years, it's supposed to be no more than 1000 years, you really do have a pondering of confusion don't you?
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 19, 2021 17:59:54 GMT -5
D"In our own reality – Einstein taught – I got on a rocket ship and went as fast as light R" You are silly Dave. Since when are all the people on earth in separate space ships and different frames of reference? Relativity do you even understand this term? Time is dependent to the viewer relative to speed and gravity Relativity do you even understand this term?
Relativity does not apply if all the people and all the events on earth happen on earth, inside the same space ship, Yes – you are correct – was that my rocket ship example?
Listen to the science people, they are saying the dinosaur bones are million years old? You listen to them all you want I am schooled enough and intelligent enough to understand what they are saying Everyone knows that Time is not linear – but it is the best tool science has for establishing the ORDER of creation
D"Time is relative – to the viewer Gen 1 = God’s time – 6 days Gen 1 – does not = 1 day from man’s perspective – it appears much longer R" Yes maybe NOT maybe – absolutely – God’s time does not pass at the same rate as man’s time Or scripture lies – Psa 90:4 and 2 Pet 3:8 Stop denying scripture – time is not the same for God as it is for man
D"ARE ALL EQUALLY POSSIBLE DEPENDENT UPON THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE VIEWER ARGUMENTS OF TIME ARE STUPID AND JUST A DISTRACTION R" We are supposed to be talking about local time inside the spaceship of earth itself You want to limit the perspective to 2021 time So you deny Don Patton that the measurement of time is error? Or you agree with science and just want to argue millions of years? You say you believe both and argue both against each other – what a distraction
RP" Well if time does not matter, why do science videos present it so much Dave? D" BECAUSE THE REAL FACT IS THE ORDER R" have you got your mind in the clouds? Prove to me that evolution denies Day 1 then Day 2, then Day 3 Day 3, then Day 4, then Day 5, Then Day 6 Prove to me that evolution denies the order of creation
D" LET’S DISCUSS CREATION – NOT A FLAWED SCIENTIFIC MATH PROBLEM!
R" SO now you refuse to acknowledge your ideas of time? I have made my views on time very clear – discuss my words – or attack me personally – take your pick
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Post by Dave on Sept 20, 2021 4:43:57 GMT -5
RP" The Noachian Flood? took 440 days of linear time. D" Happened within Day 7 R" There you go again, on another frame of reference. from heaven, day 7. From inside the space ship of earth, the yoms go on and on, and we count the yoms, called local time Dave. OUR local frame of reference.
Yep – Day 7 is still ongoing in God’s time – and if you are a spiritual Christian you can enter into that day of rest with Him
Heb 4:11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest,
Why do you dent Christianity? – Why do you deny this promise? Why do you deny the First Fruits? – Why do you deny spirituality like exampled in the both the ahl and the agl
Could Elisha spiritual discern or not Why do you deny it is possible for Christians today?
Did Abraham talk with God – one on one Why do you deny it is possible for Christians today?
Enoch and Paul were taken into the spiritual realm / the heaven and returned Why do you deny it is possible for Christians today?
Why do you preach against Paul – against the agl – saying Day 7 is closed to all – Day 7 is over long ago
Why do you preach against Jesus Christ says – you do not have to be born of spirit – biology is enough
Why do you preach against God – there is ONLY ONE
Why can’t you see scripture alive all around you - instead you are afraid of this world – the vaccine- the food – the water – the government – because it is all the hand of Catholic god of evil satan
Psa 23:3 He restores my soul. He guides me in paths of righteousness for His Name’s sake. Psa 23:4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for You are with me: Your rod and Your staff comfort me.
How can he restoreth you soul if you preach you have none – man has no spirit If you deny the spirit – how can God be with you in spirit
Robert – I cannot tell if you are really serious – or you just argue against everything and anything You claim to be a Christian – received revelation from God to do your Robert Method of work play Yet – you deny almost everything about Christianity – and you outright disgust for the Jews is obvious
Everything the Jews say is a lie There is no spirit – it is a sin to believe we have a spirit And your satan god is so powerful – that God was forced to change all His Plan against His Will
This is not a Christian faith – it is satanology 101 – AKA Catholic doctrine
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2021 4:58:27 GMT -5
D"Yes – you are correct – was that my rocket ship example?
R" Your example was a different frame of reference rotating faster than the earth yom rotation, hence the time difference between each frame of reference is different.
Sure a car travelling on the straight road at speeds like 0.9 times the speed of light (not practical in real life) is capable of the time reduction than the speed of the earth yom travelling through space, ie the road the car is travelling on, but these are two different frames of reference.
Now a dinosaur eating on earth with Job walking among the dinosaur on earth, cannot both die and become millions of years old. The Bible says Job was less than 5,000 years old. We count the time of Job. So somebody is lying about ages inside the earth frame of reference.
D"I am schooled enough and intelligent enough to understand what they are saying Everyone knows that Time is not linear – but it is the best tool science has for establishing the ORDER of creation R" Again you befuddle the mind with confusion.
"RP" Yes maybe D" NOT maybe – absolutely R" absolutely not Dave. On earth say 5000 years ago the yom rotation is still the same. 4000 years ago the yom rotation is still the same. today the yom rotation is still the same. A year is defined as 365.25 yom rotations of earth, not the amount of nanoseconds according to some atomic clock created 5,000 years ago. The yom is calculated by counting a sunrise and a sun set. The amount of seconds may be different over each yom over the years, rotations change, but the definition of the yom as a day does not change. Did the video say will "according to relativity time, as time may stretch further in the past, the dinosaur appears older than 5,000 years lived happily eating its lunch". Does the science say this? No
D"Stop denying scripture – time is not the same for God as it is for man R" for the millionth time, I am not denying relative different frames of reference. You are denying talking about the local frame of reference the yom is defined in.
D"Prove to me that evolution denies the order of creation
Ge 1:20 ¶ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Bird created before land animals. Creation account. Evolution have birds evolving after land reptiles. Go figure.
D" LET’S DISCUSS CREATION – NOT A FLAWED SCIENTIFIC MATH PROBLEM! Job and the dinosaur lived together at the same time, both are the same age as each other given to the nearest 1000 years. Science says that man never existed at the same time as the dinosaur. So they lie about the order of creation. This is not based on time. Any comments on this Dave?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 20, 2021 5:41:49 GMT -5
Now a dinosaur eating on earth with Job walking among the dinosaur on earth, cannot both die and become millions of years old. The Bible says Job was less than 5,000 years old. We count the time of Job. So somebody is lying about ages inside the earth frame of reference.
Robert – LISTEN – Time is not linear – do you have any valid arguments You say – I say – Don Patton says - science says – scripture says – time is not a valid argument What is your valid argument – or do you just argue to deny
D"I am schooled enough and intelligent enough to understand what they are saying Everyone knows that Time is not linear – but it is the best tool science has for establishing the ORDER of creation R" Again you befuddle the mind with confusion. How do you describe that Day 3 came before Day 4 – without using a time reference? DUH
"RP" Yes maybe D" NOT maybe – absolutely R" absolutely not Dave. On earth say 5000 years ago the yom rotation is still the same. 4000 years ago the yom rotation is still the same. today the yom rotation is still the same NOT TRUE – absolutely not trure D"Stop denying scripture – time is not the same for God as it is for man Psa 90:4 and 2Pet 3:8 both say - one Day for man is nothing like one Day for God D"Stop denying scripture
D"Prove to me that evolution denies the order of creation Bird created before land animals. Creation account. Gen 1:20 says flying creatures – says nothing about birds
Gen 1:20 Then God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures! Let flying creatures fly above the land across the expanse of the sky.” The Largest Insect Ever Existed Was a Giant 'Dragonfly' with a wingspan of 12 feet Which - by the way - would have required a thicker /more dense atm to be able to fly
Evolution have birds evolving after land reptiles. Go figure. Yet the fossil record has reptile birds. Go figure Which - by the way - would have required a thicker /more dense atm to be able to fly
Job and the dinosaur lived together at the same time, both are the same age as each other given to the nearest 1000 years. Science says that man never existed at the same time as the dinosaur. So they lie about the order of creation. This is not based on time. Any comments on this Dave?
Evolution doesn’t say dinos first? I though evolution said dinos first then man. Scripture say wild ainimals - beast – then man
D" LET’S DISCUSS CREATION – NOT A FLAWED SCIENTIFIC MATH PROBLEM!
Science says that man never existed at the same time as the dinosaur. Robert - Mr serious student - you are not truthfull are you - and you know it The Taylor Tracks in Texas - soft tissue recovered from dinos - QUESTION ABOUND and the questions have nothing to do with order - but time / timing
You miss the one most people go for - plants before the sun Answer - cyanobacteria are absolutely the oldest type of fossil found They also do not require sunlight for growth
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2021 14:00:34 GMT -5
Dave is suggesting the H5775 in Genesis 1:20, does NOT necessarily refer to flying creatures, like birds, but dragon flies....
D"The Largest Insect Ever Existed Was a Giant 'Dragonfly' with a wingspan of 12 feet
R" Ge 1:20 ¶ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Ge 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, So if "fowl of the air" does not mean birds, where are birds mentioned than Dave?
Ge 7:3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
You come up with some strange views on Scripture?
So Noah required 7 pairs of flying insects, not a single bird mentioned?
RP" Science says that man never existed at the same time as the dinosaur. D" Robert - Mr serious student - you are not truthful are you - and you know it The Taylor Tracks in Texas - soft tissue recovered from dinos - QUESTION ABOUND and the questions have nothing to do with order - but time / timing
You miss the one most people go for - plants before the sun Answer - cyanobacteria are absolutely the oldest type of fossil found They also do not require sunlight for growth R" How about addressing my issues? Did man live with dinosaurs or not? I say yes. Evolution science says no.
What does Dave say?
D"D"Stop denying scripture – time is not the same for God as it is for man Psa 90:4 and 2Pet 3:8 both say - one Day for man is nothing like one Day for God D"Stop denying scripture R" Dave I am not denying scripture, you are denying the local based earth reference time. You always consider other frames of reference? What is wrong with you? Sure time is different on other frames of reference. "one Day for man is nothing like one Day for God" Duh. That because GOD lives on another frame of reference. I am only talking about the local based time on earth, called the rotation of earth that causes the yom, and the Scriptures which count yoms as years of time. Can't you stick to one subject on one frame of reference? You cannot have a dinosaur being a million years old, cause that makes Job a million years old too, and by counting the yoms in Scripture, Job is no more than 5,000 years old at best. And Scripture (despite your claims) is totally infallible and always reliable. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 21, 2021 19:43:35 GMT -5
Dave is suggesting the H5775 in Genesis 1:20, does NOT necessarily refer to flying creatures, like birds, but dragon flies.... Flying things – things that fly in the airSo Noah required 7 pairs of flying insects, not a single bird mentioned? More Robert seriousness – so helpfullRP" Science says that man never existed at the same time as the dinosaur. D" Robert - Mr serious student - you are not truthful are you - and you know it The Taylor Tracks in Texas - soft tissue recovered from dinos - QUESTION ABOUND and the questions have nothing to do with order - but time / timing R" How about addressing my issues? Did man live with dinosaurs or not? I say yes. Evolution science says no. What does Dave say? Thank You for askingBiblical Dinosaurs or Dragons of Lore? By: David Freed 12/20/2006ponderingconfusion.com/papers.php?id=dinosaursR" Dave I am not denying scripture, you are denying the local based earth reference time. I am only talking about the local based time on earth You just want to argue time and time is not linearYou cannot have a dinosaur being a million years old, cause that makes Job a million years old too, You just want to argue time and time is not linearSo you are denying that soft tissue has been recovered from a dino – that must be a lie – dinos are millions of years old according to you And you deny that man and dino tracks exists side by side According to you - dinos are millions of years old or at least that is your argument Do you believe in millions of years or not – if you do not – why do you argue millions of years?Do you have any other argument? Something valid?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2021 14:34:10 GMT -5
D" Flying things – things that fly in the airR" your brevity is killing me softly Dave. So you agree birds came before the land animals now, along with insects? That is what you disagreed with me, wasn't it? RP" What does Dave say?R" Thank You for askingWhy not write Y/n? instead I have to read your paper? David Freed 12/20/2006 paper. D" If you have a Six Days of Creation view point then this era has to be squeezed some place late Day Five through Day Six. If you are from the view point that it all happened over millions and millions of evolutionary years, there is extreme flexibility as to time. R" Dave makes no commitment D" Time is truly relative to the observer or. If you don't believe that, just sit there quietly for eight hours, as I sleep. For me it will only be a moment, but for you, it may feel a bit longer than just eight hours.R" bait and switch, you are wrong Dave. " Time is truly relative to the observer " ONLY if you see time move on another frame of reference. You don't understand relativity of time do you? D" However, in an attempt to leave God out of the picture, this progressive manner is misunderstood as evolution. The dinosaurs could have had their day in the morning and man came along in late afternoon. The question becomes whether the time is fluid enough to allow man and dinosaur to co-exist.R" A theory that sounds plausible. Dino created on day 6 9:00 am, and later on 11:00 am man is created. So how many local hours of day 6 passed? 2 hours only. Not your millions of years of relativity Dave. Both events are connected to the same frame of reference, so the hours passing as the same, at the same speed. From another frame of reference say heaven, a 2 hour span would stretch to thousands maybe millions of years, due to the changing speed of the the speed of light. D" Could there possibly be fossil evidence that man and dinosaurs co-existed. Dinosaurs were suppose to be long extinct before man ever came along. Yet, near Glen Rose Texas, there is a famous fossil bed that suggest that otherwise. Taylor Trail is a series of 14 human footprints with at least 134 dinosaur tracks. There are several sets of footprints of both man and dinosaur found in the same area. Some of the footprint actually cross each others trail and the Morris Track, found by John Morris, is a human print inside of a dinosaur track.(http://www.bible.ca/tracks.htm) The Ica Stones, found in Peru contain etched pictures of accurately drawn dinosaurs. (http://www.hecklerspray.com/awesome-or-off-putting-dinosaurs-man-hand-in-hand) Inca burial stones in Peru depict Triceratops, stegosaurs, and pterosaurs that were first uncover by a Spanish Priest in 1525. (http://en.epochtimes.com/news/5-4-18/27917.html) Even the Bible seem to suggest that man and coexisted, "Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you.... " Job 40:15R" Dave talks but makes no Dave commitment. D" You can Ponder your own conclusions if scripture is referring to a dinosaur or not. The description surly fits the profile. Although, the Behemoth was made right along man and it was a vegetarian as all creature were suppose to be prior to the flood; and since we are only Pondering, perhaps the meat eating Predators species were one of the very first corruptions of God's creation by the Fallen Angels, or other outside forces.R" Why do you write about stuff you do not support or believe in? Dave talks but makes no Dave commitment. D" Higher created beings, Fallen Angels, came to earth's surface and corrupted creation by both genetically interfering with man, and instilling wickedness. How would higher created beings act if they were in our reality? They would be immortal, use to live in heaven and know the truth of our reality, possessing an amazing knowledge base, and possibly possessing powers or abilities beyond mans capabilities, creatures Arrogant enough to rise up against God Himself. Wouldn't they pass themselves off as gods to us?R" Why do you write about stuff you do not support or believe in? Dave talks but makes no commitment. This is exactly my view, but you argue against me. But you published it here in 2006 ! D" So you are denying that soft tissue has been recovered from a dino – that must be a lie – dinos are millions of years old according to you And you deny that man and dino tracks exists side by side According to you - dinos are millions of years old or at least that is your argument Do you believe in millions of years or not – if you do not – why do you argue millions of years? Do you have any other argument? Something valid?R" I am beginning to think you are sometimes unstable in your words Dave, you write opposite at times? You present gap theory and gap time. I don't You do not publish your views on evolution or creation according to your 2006 paper. Do you want to read my paper on evolution so you get things about me correct? spiritualsprings.org/ss-1127.htmCreation Science properly defined by Thompson, Robert. 2015. My views are more easily published than yours are Dave. Dave talks but makes no commitment. Aven Evolution or Avo-Evo has never been observed, because DNA code that improves the fitness level of an organism has to be engineered from the beginning by an Intelligent Designer. I assume the simple stuff of things is already known, so I do not elaborate on this. Here is my simple stuff. Man lived with dinosaurs, ate and played and used them as tools of labour. During the great flood, most dinosaurs and most humans died together, about 5,000 years ago Some dinosaurs were transported on the ark with 8 humans. Many dinosaurs still live today, most are small under the size of sheep, they are reptile like. What caused the size of growth was the better growing conditions before the flood. I do not support the idea that evidence on earth is over a millions years. D" dinos are millions of years old according to youR" NO, less than 5,000 years old D" And you deny that man and dino tracks exists side by sideR" NO both Don and myself support this evidence D" According to you - dinos are millions of years oldR" NO. I support the earth and things on earth is very young D" why do you argue millions of years?R" Because you seem to? don't you? gap theory? time not linear? Judging your 2006 paper Dave, you do not have a strong view on this subject? ? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 22, 2021 15:51:16 GMT -5
D"Flying things – things that fly in the air R" your brevity is killing me softly Dave.Gen 1:20 = flying things in the air – there are more types than just birdsD"If you have a Six Days of Creation view point then this era has to be squeezed some place late Day Five through Day Six. If you are from the view point that it all happened over millions and millions of evolutionary years, there is extreme flexibility as to time. R" Dave makes no commitmentDave is making the Point – Time is not linear – so any argument about time is stupid - but Robert didn't get itD"Time is truly relative to the observer or. If you don't believe that, just sit there quietly for eight hours, as I sleep. For me it will only be a moment, but for you, it may feel a bit longer than just eight hours. R" bait and switch, you are wrong Dave.Time is not the same for God as it is for man- Psa 90:4 + 2Pet 3:8D"However, in an attempt to leave God out of the picture, this progressive manner is misunderstood as evolution. The dinosaurs could have had their day in the morning and man came along in late afternoon. The question becomes whether the time is fluid enough to allow man and dinosaur to co-exist. R" A theory that sounds plausible. Dino created on day 6 9:00 am, and later on 11:00 am man is created. So how many local hours of day 6 passed? 2 hours only. Not your millions of years of relativity Dave.Dave is making the Point – Time is not linear – so any argument about time is stupidDo you have any other arguiment – one that is valid somehowD"You can Ponder your own conclusions if scripture is referring to a dinosaur or not. The description surly fits the profile. Although, the Behemoth was made right along man and it was a vegetarian as all creature were suppose to be prior to the flood; and since we are only Pondering, perhaps the meat eating Predators species were one of the very first corruptions of God's creation by the Fallen Angels, or other outside forces. R" Why do you write about stuff you do not support or believe in?You preach all animals were vegetarian – I am saying that the first carnivores might have been a result of the archon But you have a problem with this – who caresD"Higher created beings, Fallen Angels, came to earth's surface and corrupted creation by both genetically interfering with man, and instilling wickedness R" Why do you write about stuff you do not support or believe in?You have to consider the date and the audience – can you do that? Do you believe in millions of years or not – if you do not – why do you argue millions of years? Do you have any other argument? Something valid?R" I am beginning to think you are sometimes unstable in your words Dave, you write opposite at times?You refuse to argue order – your only argument is time Do you believe in the millions of years – or notIf not – why is it your only argumentYou do not publish your views on evolution or creation according to your 2006 paper. Why don’t you try Incremental Creation – that is what this thread is aboutD"dinos are millions of years old according to you R" NO, less than 5,000 years oldThen why do you argue it?D"And you deny that man and dino tracks exists side by side R" NO both Don and myself support this evidenceSo why do you question me when I give it as evidence – so consistantD"According to you - dinos are millions of years old R" NO. I support the earth and things on earth is very youngThen why do you argue millions of years – it is your only argumentJudging your 2006 paper Dave, you do not have a strong view on this subject??You sir are bordering on insultingponderingconfusion.com/papers.php?id=FDWEDT2The fossil record clearly indicates that various dinosaur herds shared the continental boundaries. Particularly for late Paleozoic and early Mesozoic life forms. Classic examples are the Mesosaurus, a snagle-toothed reptile, found in both South America and South Africa. Glossopteris, a tree like fern, is found in South America, Africa, Madagascar, India, Antarctica, and Australia. Sauropod fossils such as the giant Brachiosaurus build the connection between North America, Europe, Africa, and India. A shallow sea occupied the middle of the North America but an extensive land bridge joined northeastern Asia with western North America; indicated by carnivorous dinosaurs such as Tyrannosaurs, armored dinosaurs, duckbilled dinosaurs, and horned dinosaurs throughout the American West and Mongolia.8-12 The obvious zig-saw fit across the Atlantic is apparent to everyone. However, continental drift theory has the continents swimming their way around the globe mating up in multiple combinations to include all their land bridge and fossil evidence; while a 65% smaller planetoid with all of the continents fitting together to form a continuous concentric crust shell simultaneously satisfies all the evidence. … Another correlation that seems to support an active biosphere prior to planetary decompression comes directly from the great dinosaur extinction event. Mainstream theory suggests a meteor impact, in the Yucatan Peninsula, triggered the extinction event. The timing of this impact event is approximately 65 million years ago.23,24 Correlate this time scale next to a sudden and catastrophic decompression event approximately 70 million years ago, as gauged by the age of the oldest sea floor.25 Expressing this correlation in worst terms yields a +/- 5 Million year margin of error. As a laboratorian, I would compute this data as 67.5 Million years ago +/- 2.5 Million. As an abstract thinker, I would suggest that absolute understanding of all the variables used to guestimate ancient dates and the reality from Relativity that time isn’t always exactly linear yields variance in the guestimation process. Therefore, a +/- 2.5 Million year variance at 67.5 Million years ago is only a 3.7% variance over such a great time span. When you are on the right track the pieces simply fit together. If the evidence indicates that a meteor impact and decompression event happened almost simultaneously in the past then that’s just what the evidence indicates. An eruptive solar event capable of sweeping the inner solar system clear of debris and ejecting gas giant atmospheres could have easily thrown a meteor to earth 1- dinos co-existed with man 2- dinos- were primarily segregated from man Rhinos exist – I have just never seen on in the wild – have you 3- The fossil record is absent from the same area human fossils are found 4- both man and dino existed in a much thicker atm – more dense 5- both man and dino were destroyed by the flood
All of it happened approximately 67.5M +/- 2.5M years ago (science time) something catastrophic happened to this planet
All of it happen within day 7 of creation
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2021 5:00:04 GMT -5
D" All of it happened approximately 67.5M +/- 2.5M years ago (science time) something catastrophic happened to this planet
All of it happen within day 7 of creation
R" I liked your summary, nice presentation
Question: Why do you include two times, 60+million years within day 7 of creation?
I take it the 60+ million years is relative to the frame of reference from heaven, so GOD is looking down on earth. And the 7 days of creation is the local earth time, based on earth as the frame of reference?
Is this correct?
And if time is truly not linear and unpredictable, why and how do you predict time?
If I was talking I would say the flood occurred 4,500 years ago, and the dino and man both died together in the flood. The total age of the animals, and including man, since creation week was started is less than 6,000 years. Nothing is older than that local based earth time.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 23, 2021 6:14:54 GMT -5
D" All of it happened approximately 67.5M +/- 2.5M years ago (science time) something catastrophic happened to this planet All of it happen within day 7 of creation Question: Why do you include two times, 60+million years within day 7 of creation?Time is not linear – arguing time is stupid and useless – the correct argument is orderI take it the 60+ million years is relative to the frame of reference from heaven, so GOD is looking down on earth. And the 7 days of creation is the local earth time, based on earth as the frame of reference? Time is not linear – one day for the lord is not the same as one day for man – Psa 90:4 + 2Pet 3:8 + EinsteinAnd if time is truly not linear and unpredictable, why and how do you predict time?Who predicts time?The timeline of the past – is just a tool to organize order The timeline in scripture = 6 days The time line to science is much longer If you want to argue evolution vrs creation – Time is not the correct argument The order of creation = the order of evolution However – nothing ever evolved They were created one at a time by the Lord They were not all created at once – they were created – INCREMENTALLY – through the timeline Some were created first – then others – then more – and some created lastIf I was talking I would say the flood occurred 4,500 years ago\ The total age of the animals, and including man, since creation week was started is less than 6,000 years. Nothing is older than that local based earth time.You say – God’s time is earth timeI say – Time is not linear – god’s time is not the same as earth’s time Psa 90:4 – 2Pet 3:8 + Einstein I say – prove that man has not rediscovered the order of creation I say – the order of creation validates scriptureThis should make every Christian jump with joy and excitement – scripture come alive – validated again by science – Yes scripture is correct – Yes God is realAnd this is the intent of the Pondering Confusion Ministry – to bring people to the Lord – to show them just how amazing scripture really isYou and the Creation Institute – have a different ‘one way’ agendaI am trying my best to Jer 1:5 Things only happened one way – God’s way – all things must support God’s wayYou and the Creation Institute want people to take sides – choose sides – keep apart – make the other the enemy
YES ROBERT – you Catholic attitude is harmful to the faith Make no effort to see the scripture alive in the world – just take side and argue time Anything – to keep people from seeing the true of scripture
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2021 13:23:58 GMT -5
D" You and the Creation Institute want people to take sides – choose sides – keep apart – make the other the enemyR" You have a principle of compromise, inside you that prevents you from following the truth. The order of Creation as God created it is way different from evolution.... D" The order of creation = the order of evolutionR" not even close, they are opposing each other , because the religions underneath also oppose each other. You cannot compromise God's word. For example : I quote servantsofgrace.org/evolution-vs-creation-order-events-matters/EVOLUTION VS. CREATION: THE ORDER OF EVENTS MATTERS! by Terry Mortenson | Nov 10, 2016 | The Beginning of Redemptive History through the Lives of Adam and Eve, Featured
The order of events of creation recorded in Genesis 1 contradicts (at very many points) the order of events according to the evolution story. Many Christians think that if we just take each of the days of creation as being figurative of long ages (hundreds of millions of years or more), we can harmonize the Bible with the big bang and the geological evidence for a very old earth. But this only seems reasonable to those who pay insufficient attention to the order of events according to Genesis chapter 1 and the order of events according to evolution theory.
There are many strong biblical objections to the day-age view. This old-earth view of the days is often called the “day-age” view and is an aspect of both progressive creationism and theistic evolution. The first objection to this view is that the Bible gives us abundant evidence that the days were intended by God (the divine author) and Moses (the human author) to be understood as literal 24-hour days (see Could God Really Have Created Everything in Six Days?). Second, along with the gap theory, framework hypothesis and other old-earth positions, the day-age view postulates millions of years of death, disease, violence and extinction in the animal world long before man was created. But this absolutely contradicts the Bible’s teaching about sin and death occurring after man was created (see Two Histories of Death). Furthermore, like these other old-earth views, the day-age view is based on the false assumption that science has proven long ages through such things as
(1) radiometric dating methods (see Thousands…Not Billions), (2) distant starlight (Light-Travel Time: A Problem for the Big Bang and Distant Starlight) and (3) how long it supposedly takes for rock layers to form (Rapid Rocks).
These old-earth views developed about 200 years ago as Christians abandoned the orthodox young-earth view that dominated the first 1,800 years of church history (see Historical Setting and Millions of Years: Where Did the Idea Come From?).Here in this article, I want to discuss another problem for the day-age view: the order of events of creation recorded in Genesis 1 contradicts (at very many points) the order of events according to the evolution story. That means that even if you don’t believe in Darwinian Evolution as an explanation of the origin of living things, the only way you can harmonize Genesis with the idea of millions of years is by rearranging the order of events in Genesis.
Consider these examples of contradictions of order:
*The order mentioned in Scripture suggests a slight difference in the timing of their appearance; i.e., they were created on the same day, possibly moments or hours apart. Evolution Genesis · Sun before earth · Earth before sun · Dry land before sea · Sea before dry land · Atmosphere before sea · Sea before atmosphere · Sun before light on earth · Light on earth before sun · Stars before earth · Earth before stars · Earth at same time as planets · Earth before other planets · Sea creatures before land plants · Land plants before sea creatures · Earthworms before starfish · Starfish before earthworms · Land animals before trees · Trees before land animals · Death before man · Man before death · Thorns and thistles before man · Man before thorns and thistles · TB pathogens & cancer before man · Man before TB pathogens and cancer · Reptiles before birds · Birds before reptiles · Land mammals before whales · Whales before land animals · Simple plants before fruit trees · Fruit trees before other plants* · Insects before mammals · Mammals (cattle) before “creeping things”* · Land mammals before bats · Bats before land animals · Dinosaurs before birds · Birds before dinosaurs · Insects before flowering plants · Flowering plants before insects · Sun before plants · Plants before sun · Dinosaurs before dolphins · Dolphins before dinosaurs · Land reptiles before pterosaurs · Pterosaurs before land reptiles · Land insects before flying insects · Flying insects before land insects To put it pictorially, you can see the contradiction here: We need to be aware of one more important point of contradiction. The Bible says that the earth was completely covered with water twice in its history—the first two days of creation (before dry land first appeared) and then about 1,600 years later during Noah’s Flood.
But evolution says that there has never been a global ocean on this planet. Evolution says that the earth was originally a hot, molten lava ball which over millions of years cooled to develop a hard crust and an atmosphere. Eventually the earth developed an irregular topography (hills and valleys) and rainfall gradually filled in some of the low spots to form localized seas. Just so there is no confusion about this, look at this series of pictures from a geology book produced by the Institute of Geological Sciences in London, England (an evolutionist institution). Next to these pictures on the same page the author writes:
Condensation of part of the vast cloud of cold dust and gas that gave rise to the Solar System initially formed a molten Earth surrounded by a thick and dense atmosphere of cosmic gases…made up largely of carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide…As the globe slowly cooled, crystallization of minerals…began to make a crust…to build a new atmosphere…water vapor condensed and fell as rain…the first oceans collected in low-lying areas.
Dr. Hugh Ross, a progressive creationist, was badly uninformed when he told viewers of TV program seven of The Great Debate, on the John Ankerberg Show (aired in March 2006), that in the standard big bang cosmology, “the earth begins with water over the whole surface.” Dr. Ross is simply wrong.
For all these reasons and more, you cannot harmonize the Bible with millions of years, no matter where you try to wedge in the time into Genesis—unless you rearrange the text by moving verses and phrases around to radically change the order of events in Genesis 1. But that is not the way to treat the Bible. That is not Bible interpretation—rather it is Bible mutilation, to make it say what “evolutionized” Christians want it to say.
The Bible clearly teaches a literal six-day creation a few thousand years ago and a global catastrophic Flood at the time of Noah. The Bible firmly resists any attempts to marry it with evolution and millions of years. Rather than playing fast and loose with the sacred text, we ought to heed the words of Isaiah 66:2, where God says: Isa 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. SHalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 23, 2021 16:53:31 GMT -5
R" You have a principle of compromise, inside you that prevents you from following the truth. The order of Creation as God created it is way different from evolution.... D"The order of creation = the order of evolutionR" not even close, they are opposing each other, because the religions underneath also oppose each other. You cannot compromise God's word.D"The order of creation = the order of evolutionThe only compromises is the addition of scripture – Time is not linear – psa 90:4 + 2Pet 3:8 + EinsteinFor example : I quote servantsofgrace.org/evolution-vs-creation-order-events-matters/ EVOLUTION VS. CREATION: THE ORDER OF EVENTS MATTERS! This is a creationist post with a creationist bias - OK (1) radiometric dating methods (see Thousands…Not Billions), (2) distant starlight (Light-Travel Time: A Problem for the Big Bang and Distant Starlight) and (3) how long it supposedly takes for rock layers to form (Rapid Rocks). YES – all arguments of timeThese old-earth views developed about 200 years ago as Christians abandoned the orthodox young-earth view that dominated the first 1,800 years of church history (see Historical Setting and Millions of Years: Where Did the Idea Come From?). These old earth views developed as the sciences developedConsider these examples of contradictions of order: *The order mentioned in Scripture suggests a slight difference in the timing of their appearance; i.e., they were created on the same day, possibly moments or hours apart. Yep - incremental CreationEvolution Genesis · Sun before earth · Earth before sun · Sun before light on earth · Light on earth before sun (google) The Sun was born about 4.6 billion years ago from the gravitational collapse of a vast cloud of gas and dust. Material in the center of the cloud was squeezed so tightly that it became hot enough to ignite nuclear fusion (Google) The Big Bang was the moment 13.8 billion years ago· Sun before plants · Plants before sun · Simple plants before fruit trees · Fruit trees before other plants* H1877 – דֶּשֶׁא - From H1876; a sprout; by analogy grass: H1876 – דָּשָׁא - A primitive root; to sprout: - bring forth, spring The process of mitosses produces fruit bodies – daughter cells All molds and yeast reproduce by making fruiting bodiesSea creatures before land plants · Land plants before sea creatures Cyanobacteria are the oldest fossils – they are a type of algie – a type of plant = they do not require sunlight to make energy – some have been found 200 feet under the soil thriving in complete darkness· Dry land before sea · Sea before dry land How do you do that – separate the dry from the wet without having two when finished? WEDD + FD-WEDT + many nuclear and geophysicist all give their weight to a gas sized Proto-Planet that was mostly land – like all the other planets – but Planetoid Pangea had 4 large rivers Were there wide spots and pools – sure – but before the Flood what is seas?· Atmosphere before sea · Sea before atmosphere Have no idea?Gen 1:6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the water! Let it be for separating water from water.” Heavens and earth – Gen 1:7 So God made the expanse and it separated the water that was below the expanse from the water that was over the expanse. And it happened so. Then on earth the waters separated from the land There is a vail between the physical / corporeal and the spiritual / etherealGen 1:8 God called the expanse “sky.” So there was evening and there was morning—a second day. Gen 1:9 Then God said, “Let the water below the sky be gathered to one place. Let the dry ground appear.” And it happened so. Water separated from dry land here in this earth = 4 rivers and some wide spots – not the 7 oceans we have todayGen 1:10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the collection of the water He called “seas.” And God saw that it was good. · Stars before earth · Earth before stars Rev 12 – there they are to be cast to earth What is earth – Gen 1:1 or Gen 1:10?
· Earth at same time as planets · Earth before other planets Nebular Theory says – Gen 1:9 -10 happened to earth of Gen 1:1 Creationist demand it be Gen 1:10· Land animals before trees · Trees before land animals Sorry – Gen 1:11 then Gen 1:20 agrees with the fossil record· Reptiles before birds · Birds before reptiles Not true oldest flying things were not birds Birds were reptiles· Land mammals before whales · Whales before land animals Gen 1:20 Then God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures! Let flying creatures fly above the land across the expanse of the sky.” Gen 1:21 Then God created the large sea creatures and every living creature that crawls, with which the water swarms, according to their species Same creation day – now he is not arguing order but timing· Insects before mammals · Mammals (cattle) before “creeping things”* Sorry Gen 1:11 comes first and so does the fissile record Flying things before creeping things· Land mammals before bats · Bats before land animals OH is a bat a fowel? I thought fowl was only Birds?· Dinosaurs before birds · Birds before dinosaurs Dinos are birds Thorns and thistles before man · Man before thorns and thistles · TB pathogens & cancer before man · Man before TB pathogens and cancer Sorry – no new creation after Day 6 – this guys is preaching against scripture
· Death before man · Man before death Natural cycle of life = balance = and God said it was Good Has nothing to do with Romans 5:12 when sin came into the world to manBut evolution says that there has never been a global ocean on this planet. Lieearthsky.org/earth/ancient-earth-water-world-global-ocean-harvard/Scientists theorize that some exoplanets – worlds orbiting distant suns – might be water worlds, rocky planets completely covered by global oceans. This month, a researcher at Harvard University published new evidence that Earth itself was once a water world, with its own global ocean and very little, if any, visible land Evolution says that the earth was originally a hot, molten lava ball which over millions of years cooled to develop a hard crust and an atmosphere. Eventually the earth developed an irregular topography (hills and valleys) and rainfall gradually filled in some of the low spots to form localized seas. Just so there is no confusion about this, look at this series of pictures from a geology book produced by the Institute of Geological Sciences in London, England (an evolutionist institution). Next to these pictures on the same page the author writes: Condensation of part of the vast cloud of cold dust and gas that gave rise to the Solar System initially formed a molten Earth surrounded by a thick and dense atmosphere of cosmic gases…made up largely of carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide…As the globe slowly cooled, crystallization of minerals…began to make a crust…to build a new atmosphere…water vapor condensed and fell as rain…the first oceans collected in low-lying areas. For all these reasons and more, you cannot harmonize the Bible with millions of years, no matter where you try to wedge in the time into Genesis—Time is not linear – arguing time is a stupid argumentThe Bible clearly teaches a literal six-day creation a few thousand years ago and a global catastrophic Flood at the time of Noah. Yes – it does – and the Bible clearly teaches that time is not linear – Psa 90:4 +2 Pet 3:8 + EinsteinThe Bible firmly resists any attempts to marry it with evolution and millions of years. Rather than playing fast and loose with the sacred text, we ought to heed the words of Isaiah 66:2, where God says:1- first the claim is Evolution is a flawed science 2- then the claim is that time is not linear 3- but arguing time against the flawed science is your only game – you only argumentWhy don’t you try and see Genesis through the eyes of true science – and not the theory of evolution that we all know as flawed Answer – you choose not to seeYou turn to the doctrine of this guy – and then another guy I choose to only look at the data – and skip the distraction that keeps us apartHow can you love your neighbor – if you categorize people as the enemy? - Catholic
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2021 15:50:12 GMT -5
D" Why don’t you try and see Genesis through the eyes of true science R" I do I suggest you read through the papers of Barry Setterfield Dave web.archive.org/web/20070529035948/http://www.setterfield.org/scipubl.htmlI have considered this theory as a nice theory since 1975. It might help you with time related things. I am also sad Gerald Schroeder does not have more videos, he is a great lecturer. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 24, 2021 23:30:45 GMT -5
D"Why don’t you try and see Genesis through the eyes of true science I suggest you read through the papers of Barry Setterfield Dave It might help you with time related things.
I looked at his home page – 7 articles listed – 6 were all about time Psa 90:4 + 2Pet 3:8 + Einstein = Time is not linear – any discussion of time is stupid
Why won’t creationist argue order? Why do creationists misrepresent other sciences? Nebular Theory – Planet Formation Theory – Stellar Ignition Theory – the God particle – string Theory – quantum Physics – plate tectonics – Volcanology - have absolutely nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution
I am also sad Gerald Schroeder does not have more videos, he is a great lecturer. University of Pittsburg, archive – everything he ever wrote is there for public review
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