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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2021 16:43:01 GMT -5
D"30:25 He presents a fossilized spider In the same museum is a sign that reads 2” of sediment accumulation = 1 million years
Then he makes the following example It would take 2500 years to cover the thickness of a human hair And he make the following conclusion
‘science expects us to believe that this spider stood still without moving or changing for all the 100s of years it took to cover that spider in sediment so it could fossilize’ R" OK I agree with you, he is presenting some weird things, but have a look at what evolution textbooks present. Question: DO evolution text books present layers of sediment to be certain ages ? y/n? This is what Don Patton is mocking.... context Dave.... So Don asks the evolution textbooks how old is this fossilized spider, based on layers of sediment? Again he is mocking the assumption that layers of sediment equate to age of fossils.... Again he is mocking the textbook that layers of sediment equate to age of the fossil? Question: DO the museums present this bias? y/n? Simple questions to answer Dave. Are not presenters allowed to entertain us in the boring science data presented? A little humour helps between the serious bits. So if the spider is buried rapidly, how can the spider be fossilized millions of years ago? Where is the evidence? Certainly not in the layers. Therefore you have no proof of age. You say time is not linear.... well time is linear on the frame of reference it is read from, ie earth. According to earth and earth reference, time is linear. One yom at a time going forward in time. How do you account for a flood, volcano event, storm before Noah's flood? No such events ever took place. Before the flood all things are very functional we are told in Scripture. No sediments, no rain, no snow, no mountains, no salt water oceans, no seasons, no heat, no things dying in rapid sites, like a great flood event. No volcanoes, no earthquakes, all very functional, until the great flood event, 2400 years or so after Adam Sinned. But you include ra things happening long before Adam sinned. Care to explain where your evidence is? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 5, 2021 22:51:12 GMT -5
‘science expects us to believe that this spider stood still without moving or changing for all the 100s of years it took to cover that spider in sediment so it could fossilize’
R" OK I agree with you, he is presenting some weird things, but have a look at what evolution textbooks present.
He is not being honest with his audience – no truth in him you say – one word I don’t like and you’re out Enoch
Question: DO evolution text books present layers of sediment to be certain ages ? y/n? 1- that is not the question before you 2- Time is not linear Psa 90:4 + 1 Peter 3:9
So Don asks the evolution textbooks how old is this fossilized spider, based on layers of sediment? Again he is mocking the assumption that layers of sediment equate to age of fossils.... Don Patton says - ‘science expects us to believe that this spider stood still without moving or changing for all the 100s of years it took to cover that spider in sediment so it could fossilize’
29:44 Family Circus cartoon – do rocks grow a child asks? So Don Patton tells the tale of how sure rocks grow – wait long enough they grow into houses with an extra bedroom He says that is the propaganda being put out – by who? He is the only one making this sound like it came from a text book – just so he can argue against it
You claim he only quote evolution text books - let see your quotes Prove to me that sciece teach that fossils form by laying still for 100s of years without decaying to be covered by a slow sedimantary process Prove to me that a scice text book teach rtock grow as he suggest Yet he says He says that is the propaganda being put out – by who?
This is not the truth – you are trying to cover for him – because you want him to be correct HE IS NOT – not even close
So if the spider is buried rapidly, how can the spider be fossilized millions of years ago? Where is the evidence? Certainly not in the layers. Therefore you have no proof of age. Correct – no proof of age – Time is not linear
You say time is not linear.... well time is linear on the frame of reference it is read from, ie earth. You deny scripture in favor of your creation institute doctrine Time is not linear – Psa 90:4 + 1 Peter 3:9 Any discussion about time is a STUPID WASTE OF TIME
How do you account for a flood, volcano event, storm before Noah's flood? No such events ever took place. Before the flood all things are very functional we are told in Scripture.
You are getting off topic – trying to divert the discussion away from answering the question at hand Is Don Patton a truthful presenter yes / or no
There is a lot more Don Patton lies to discuss before we are done with your movie
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2021 14:08:56 GMT -5
I do not like your attacking the personality of the presenter Dave. A person's personality has nothing to do with his message. OK so Don Patton uses some bias to get his point across. But you focus on this personality, I focus on the science of the message. Our focus is different. No wonder you find looking at things difficult. The science message in this spider fossil is the text book claims that the sedimentation process causes the spider fossil to be millions of years old. If this is not so prove it to me? But instead you claim linear time does not exist on earth? Time is relative to the body that carries that time. And if the earth is carrying that time, all time on earth is relative to earth time, hence linear time. Come on Dave start getting serious in your understanding of time. From a selection of www sources from Evolution Textbooks on Fossilization" I quote" Although incomplete, fossil records are used for stratigraphic correlation, using the Principle of Faunal Succession, and provide a method used for establishing the age of a formation on the Geologic Time Scale.geo.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Geology/Book%3A_An_Introduction_to_Geology_(Johnson_Affolter_Inkenbrandt_and_Mosher)/07%3A_Geologic_Time/7.03%3A_Fossils_and_EvolutionIf sufficient individuals in a population fail to surmount the challenges of the environment and the population cannot produce enough viable offspring, the species becomes extinct. The average lifespan of a species in the fossil record is around a million years. That life still exists on Earth shows the role and importance of evolution as a natural process in meeting the continual challenges posed by our dynamic Earth. Erickson, J., Coates, D. R. & Erickson, H. P. An introduction to fossils and minerals: seeking clues to the Earth’s past. (Facts On File, Incorporated, 2014). Quick burial is essential because most decay and fragmentation occurs at the surface. Marine animals that die near a river delta may be rapidly buried by river sediments. A storm at sea may shift sediment on the ocean floor, covering a body and helping to preserve its skeletal remains
Quick burial is rare on land, so fossils of land animals and plants are less common than marine fossils. Land organisms can be buried by mudslides, volcanic ash, or covered by sand in a sandstormsites.google.com/a/dist145schools.org/freshman-science-textbook/geology/earths-geologic-historyThe 145 million-year-old Solnhofen Limestone in Germany has fossils of soft body parts that are not normally preserved Rob" How do they determine the Solnhofen Limestone in Germany is in fact 145 million years old? D" Time is not linear – Psa 90:4 + 1 Peter 3:9 Any discussion about time is a STUPID WASTE OF TIMER" Instead you quote verses that quote GOD on a different frame of reference to earth? Now you are not serious? God is not on earth, so the times are different. Duh. Come on Dave. Time on earth is linear when measured on the earth. How do they determine the Solnhofen Limestone in Germany is in fact 145 million years old? By the presence of certain fossils? How do they determine the age of the fossils? By the presence of certain rock layer? Circular reasoning. Don Patton is debating evolution text book messages. Stop bagging the emotion of the speaker and let's get down to the message he is presenting. You mention something of Robert Hooke, suggesting He was a supporter of evolution? How can that be when Darwin wrote evolution as a theory much later? I found this about Robert Hooke " Robert Hooke grew up during the Scientific Revolution, in which society steered away from religious aspects of life and leaned more toward a scientific and secular perspective. Hooke experienced England’s shift from an emphasis on Anglicanism to an emphasis on the secular sciences (“British Art in the 17th Century and Historical Background,” 43). Thus, this new uprising encouragement to explore the sciences dominated the middle class of the urbanizing society. This gave Robert Hooke an excuse to let go of the religious expectations of his family in order to pursue a life as a scientist. Hooke came from a highly religious Anglican family, and his father, John Hooke, expected him to become an Anglican clergyman himself (“The Religious Affiliation of Robert Hooke,” 54). The ill physical conditions of Hooke as a child caused his parents to eventually give up on his educational expectations, since they doubted that he would be able to survive. Thus, they left his undecided education up to the decision of Robert Hooke himself (“The Religious Affiliation of Robert Hooke,” 55). With an undecided education ahead of him, Robert Hooke’s decision to become a scientist was directly impacted by the transformation within society from a religious emphasis to a more secular and scientific emphasis. After the death of John Hooke, society dived into a new era of the Scientific Revolution, and left behind the old principle emphasis on religion. Thus, this affected Robert Hooke and influenced his destiny of becoming a scientist and natural philosopher, rather than a clergyman of the Anglican Church. Accordingly, in 1653, Robert Hooke left Westminster for Christ Church of Oxford, considering the fact that the Anglican Church was abolished between the years of 1643 and 1660 (“The Religious Affiliation of Robert Hooke,” 55). Furthermore, this shift from religion to secularism led Hooke to continue to pursue the study of fossils despite the lack of religious support of this subject due to the Bible’s own account of creation (Westfall, 72)." So in my understanding Hooke was a Creationist first, maybe a backslider, but not a Darwin Evolutionist. www.ancient-hebrew.org/philosophy/concepts-in-time.htmTime is not linear it is circular. A clock is not a timeline but a circle for the simple reason that time does not begin or stop, it continues without beginning or end. In the same fashion days and years are also circular. If the timeline above for the span of the earth and … Jeff Benner discussing time as circular.... maybe... www.researchgate.net/post/What_is_time_Is_it_linear_or_cyclicIn the former case, time is a (more or less) linear phenomenon taking place in the interval stretching from birth to death.Time is linear in reference to short spans of time. bigpicturequestions.com/what-is-linear-time-vs-nonlinear-time 26/10/2013 · What is linear vs. nonlinear time? Tom Minderle explained that linear time means moving from the past into the future in a straight line, like dominoes knocking over dominoes. There is a sequence that moves in one direction. Humans think we can’t change the past or visit it, because we live according to linear time.Creation caused time to begin, ie day one, it says in genesis 1 www.yashanet.com/studies/revstudy/rev4a.htmThe "normal" way most people look at time is linear. The past is "behind us," and the future "ahead of us." Adam and Eve existed about 6,000 years ago, the Torah came to Moses about 3,300 years ago, and the Messiah came about 2,000 years ago. This is all indeed true, from our point of view, from the "dimensions" we live in.So time can be measured in a linear fashion. -------------------------- By: David Freed 03/03/2007 Time is not linear - Simply put, this is the only relative in Einstein's' Special Theory of Relativity. As Gravity or speed, increases, times slows and time and gravity become measurable at different rates at different locations. Can you prove this? that gravity is different in different locations on earth? Can you prove that time is different on different locations on earth? Suppose an atomic clock starts in London and in the USA, prove to me the two locations on earth cause differences in time? The most note-worthy experiment, that specifically test Einstein's relativity theory, is the Hafele and Keating Experiment. "During October, 1971, four cesium beam clocks were flown on regularly scheduled commercial jet flights around the world twice eastward and once westward, to test Einstein's theory of relativity with macroscopic clocks.Your paper discusses time on different frames of reference travelling at different speeds. We are NOT discussing this. Sure such things exist on different frame of reference. However on the same frame of reference, time is linear. If four cesium beam clock were started together in different locations, one in London, one in the USA, one in Germany and one in Brisbane Australia, would these four clock show differences in time when all sitting on the earth travelling in space together? They would all prove time is linear when measured on the same reference. Now start discussing the task at hand, the message of the presenter, not the emotions of the presenter. D" You are getting off topic – trying to divert the discussion away from answering the question at hand Is Don Patton a truthful presenter yes / or noR" Don Patton presents the message well, with a little prejudice in his emotional style. What is the question at hand Dave? Do you understand this? I am not getting off topic? Explain to me how you prove your long ages of RA before Adam sinned causing RA. Before the flood there were no volcanoes, no high mountains, no Mt Sinai, no salt water oceans, no rain, no snow, no earthquakes, everything was very functional Genesis says. All the fossils we see came from one sudden event, the great flood over a period of a few hundred days, not a million years of linear time. I am not getting off topic? I am very much on topic. You explain to me how you get you view to fit into Genesis before the flood? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 7, 2021 11:53:03 GMT -5
I do not like your attacking the personality of the presenter Dave. A person's personality has nothing to do with his message. PLEASE ADDRESS his words – each and every one he speaks – beginning at 28:24 I AM ATTACKING HIS MESSAGEThe science message in this spider fossil is the text book claims that the sedimentation process causes the spider fossil to be millions of years old. If this is not so prove it to me?LIE – misdirection Don Patton’s exact words: ‘science expects us to believe that this spider stood still without moving or changing for all the 100s of years it took to cover that spider in sediment so it could fossilize’ Question – does science expect you to believe him? – NO ABSOLUTLY NOTYou are trying to defend his lies by changing the argument to something about timeBut instead you claim linear time does not exist on earth? Time is relative to the body that carries that time. And if the earth is carrying that time, all time on earth is relative to earth time, hence linear time. Come on Dave start getting serious in your understanding of time. R" Instead you quote verses that quote GOD on a different frame of reference to earth? Now you are not serious?Genesis chapter 1 is told form whose perspectives man’s on earth or God’s 1 day in God’s time is how long? Time is not linear – any discussion of time is error either way – therefore it is a stupid argumentFrom a selection of www sources from Evolution Textbooks on Fossilization" I quote" Although incomplete, fossil records are used for stratigraphic correlation, using the Principle of Faunal Succession, and provide a method used for establishing the age of a formation on the Geologic Time Scale. Is this statement of scientific fact a lie yes/noSo if you look at the origins of the plants and animals of Genesis chapter 1 It does not yield a stratigraphic succession that yields an ‘age’ of geologic time Do not plants come before light before fish, before land creatures, before beast, before man And does this succession give any clue as to which Day of creation they belong? Is this statement of scientific fact a lie yes/nogeo.libretexts.org If sufficient individuals in a population fail to surmount the challenges of the environment and the population cannot produce enough viable offspring, the species becomes extinct. YES Absolutely – created – reproduce after their own kind – die out Yes – the fossil record absolutely indicates this The average lifespan of a species in the fossil record is around a million years. Time is not linear – any discussion of time is error either way – therefore it is a stupid argumentThat life still exists on Earth shows the role and importance of evolution as a natural process in meeting the continual challenges posed by our dynamic Earth. No – just proves as the earth changed some new creatures appeared and other disappeared Erickson, J., Coates, D. R. & Erickson, H. P. – I am familure with this Quick burial is essential because most decay and fragmentation occurs at the surface Quick burial is rare on land, so fossils of land animals and plants are less common than marine fossils. Land organisms can be buried by mudslides, volcanic ash, or covered by sand in a sandstorm YEP – all agreeDon Patton’s exact words: ‘science expects us to believe that this spider stood still without moving or changing for all the 100s of years it took to cover that spider in sediment so it could fossilize’ Question – does science expect you to believe him? – NO ABSOLUTLY NOTsites.google.com/a/dist145schools.org/freshman-science-textbook/geology/earths-geologic-history Rob" How do they determine the Solnhofen Limestone in Germany is in fact 145 million years old? They think it old because they accept the math that contains two different false assumptionsThe math does not prove the earth was older before the flood – but largerDon Patton is debating evolution text book messages. Then he should do so with facts – so far he does not all he does is lie then argue against his own lieYou mention something of Robert Hooke, suggesting He was a supporter of evolution? How can that be when Darwin wrote evolution as a theory much later?I DID NO SUCH THING – honesty Robert – do you have anyI present his words as a published scientist of his dayI do not like your attacking the personality of the presenter Dave. A person's personality has nothing to do with his message. PLEASE ADDRESS his words – each and every one he speaks www.ancient-hebrew.org/philosophy/concepts-in-time.htmTime is not linear it is circular. Jeff Benner discussing time as circular.... maybe... YEP – Time is not linearwww.researchgate.net/post/What_is_time_Is_it_linear_or_cyclicIn the former case, time is a (more or less) linear phenomenon taking place in the interval stretching from birth to death. From the perspective of a man life – to God it was just a moment in timeTime is linear in reference to short spans of time. Dependent upon the perspective of the viewer - but what is 'short spans of time'? 1 life time? - a century? - a 1000 years? Gnosticism uses the term - 'an age' in Greek = G165 - αἰών - aiōn - age, a period of time, eternity NT use of eternity is error - Gal 1:5 ᾧ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων· ἀμήν. you cannot have eterntiy + eternity but you can have an age + an age / a period of time + a peroid of time Modern uses - ancient Greece (is that 1000yrs or only 500?) The middle ages - the dark ages - during the crusaids (is just how years is that?) Gnosticism uses the term - 'an age' - as in Gen 1:1-3 Day one is one 'age' A lot happened during that age - mega Let's talk the age of Adam to Noah Rabbis want to count up everyone ages and say - it was this long and people lived up to 969 years in age I am content to say this is all reletively linear - but as the the reference to years I also know that before the flood things were different - the planet was larger Physics suggest it rotated faster - 1 day to Jupiter = 10 earth hours Physics also suggest he earth was closer to the sun = shorter years I am content to say this is all reletively linear - I also know that before the flood things were different Time is not linearwww.yashanet.com/studies/revstudy/rev4a.htmThe "normal" way most people look at time is linear. The past is "behind us," and the future "ahead of us." Adam and Eve existed about 6,000 years ago, the Torah came to Moses about 3,300 years ago, and the Messiah came about 2,000 years ago. This is all indeed true, from our point of view, from the "dimensions" we live in. To be completely honest here – I would sayThe "normal" way most people look at time is linear. The past is "behind us," and the future "ahead of us." Adam and Eve existed (before the flood – after that), the Torah came to Moses about 3,300 years ago, and the Messiah came about 2,000 years ago. This is all indeed true, from our (man’s) point of view, from the (3D)"dimensions" we live in. So time can be measured in a linear fashion. From man’s perspective in this dimension - correct-------------------------- By: David Freed 03/03/2007 Time is not linear - Simply put, this is the only relative in Einstein's' Special Theory of Relativity. As Gravity or speed, increases, times slows and time and gravity become measurable at different rates at different locations. Can you prove this? that gravity is different in different locations on earth?Come to my house and stand on a scale – you will weigh less here than in Australia I always thought I would weigh more – because there is more mass under me pulling at me But actually – I am farther away from the center than you Move 62 miles above the center and you are weightless Can you prove that time is different on different locations on earth? prove to me the two locations on earth cause differences in time?Wrong question – Einstein said ‘s Gravity or speed, increases, times slows’Move toward a Black Hole and time slows (that’s the theory) Or increase you speed - Your paper discusses time on different frames of reference travelling at different speeds. We are NOT discussing this. Sure such things exist on different frame of reference.Yes we are – all thing are related Please take one moment right now and notice you are sitting/standing/laying/whatever Are you moving? The earth is rotating at roughly 1,000 miles per hour The earth travels around the sun at a speed of nearly 30 kilometers per second, or 67,000 miles per hour. Yes, the Sun - in fact, our whole solar system - orbits around the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. We are moving at an average velocity of 828,000 km/hr. And how fast is the Milky Way Galaxy moving? The speed turns out to be an astounding 1.3 million miles per hour (2.1 million km/hr)! However on the same frame of reference, time is linear. Dependent upon the perspective of the viewer
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Post by Dave on Sept 7, 2021 13:27:04 GMT -5
I really want to say something about the next ‘age’ Noah /Nimrod to AbrahamI tell myself I can be comfortable with the last age being relatively linear – as in relative to that age However – closer in history I have a problem with not necessarily linear time – but of linear history There are gaps in our historyPOINT # 13 – WHAT DOES HE GET RIGHT = Catastrophic Earth ChangeAround 102-103 he makes the final point – these things happened rapidly Agreed – Volcanic eruptions like Mt. St. Hellens are catastrophic and almost instantaneous events The loss of Protoplanet Earth’s atm was the result of a shock wave = a catastrophic and rapid event The Laws of equilibrium demand that the gasses and then the fluids would have exploded from the earth = a catastrophic and rapid event Scripture tells us the decompression even was violent for about 40 days Scripture tells us it took around 400 days before the first dry land pushed its way up through the waters Events that caused fossil beds = floods / earthquakes / mud flows/etc Each a catastrophic and rapid event The fossil record show at least 5 separate mass extinction event = catastrophic and rapid The fossil record also show periodic explosions of new life = catastrophic and rapid If an asteroid stuck earth 65M yrs ago – it was catastrophic and rapid event No one is arguing against the idea of catastrophic and rapid earth change No one is arguing against the idea of catastrophic and rapid creative events POINT #14 – HOW HE RUINS HIS OWN REVELATIONFirst he quotes Derek Agar President of the British Geological Association (49:00) “The geological record is constantly lying to us. It pretends to tell the whole truth, when it is only telling a very small part of it. Now where in the world is record, or even part of it, complete. It may seem paradoxical, to me the gaps probably cover most of earth history … “ Then he deliberately misrepresent the statement Agar is basing his science on what is not there – shouldn’t better science base itself on what is there Agar is basing his science on the lack of evidence He says – “it is amazing to him that a scientist would base his finding on the lack of evidence” deliberately mocking Derek Agar (when you or he does this it is insulting – shows no respect – and ruin your credibility)1- It is the a catastrophic and rapid events of our past that have left their mark on history It is easy to document a flood – a volcanic eruption – or an earthquake It is harder to measure the years in between those events 2- Patton demands that earth’s history has been one a catastrophic and rapid event after another from the beginning right up until todayThis is not what we observe in the evidence247wallst.com/special-report/2019/11/15/17-cataclysmic-events-that-changed-the-earth-forever/2/Cataclysmic Events That Changed the Earth Forever Collision with Theia. > Era: 4.5 billion years ago. ... The Great Oxidation Event. > Era: 2.5 billion years ago. ... Vredefort impact. > Era: 2 billion years ago. ... Sudbury Basin impact. ... > Era: 1.8 billion years ago Acraman impact. ... > Era: 580 million years ago Events leading to Ordovician extinction. ... > Era: 440 million years ago Eruption leading to Permian extinction. ... > Era: 252 million years ago Underwater eruption leading to End-Triassic extinction. > Era: 201 million years ago Chicxulub impact > Era: 65 million years ago (the Flood of Noah)Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum > Era: 56 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions > Era: 2.1 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions >, 1.2 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions >, 640,000 years ago Toba eruption > Era: 74,000 years ago Mount Thera eruption > Era: 3,600 years ago (Moses and the Exodus)Huaynaputina eruption > Era: 1600 A.D. Tambora eruption > Era: 1815 A.D. Krakatoa eruption 1883 Patton demands that earth’s history has been one a catastrophic and rapid event after another from the beginning right up until todayThis is not what we observe in the evidence(it is not the time - or the date - it is the order - Time is not linear)We see catastrophic and rapid events separated by GAPS of timeDerek Agar said “…the gaps probably cover most of earth history … “ 19 catastrophic and rapid major earth change events – separated by many years = gaps = most of earth’s history FD-WEDT - the Hawaiian Sea Mount ChainIs a perfect indicator of this catastrophic and rapid change followed by gaps or periods of clam Hawaii is a hot spot at 19.5 degrees one the earth belly measured from the geological North Pole Each mount = a period of calm (Torsion Field physics) = 19.5 degrees = the base four corners of a tetrahedron within the globe Same location as the storm on Jupiter and Olympus Mons on Mars Same location as China’s moon landing 2013 (The Jade Rabbit) The Hawaiian Sea Mount Chain - Is a perfect indicator of this catastrophic and rapid change followed by gaps or periods of clam Each mount represents a period of clam – when the mount was allowed to form Each mount also represents the rate of eruption and the length of the calm period Then catastrophically and rapid the sea floor moved – shifted to a new location The another period of calm – then catastrophically and rapid the sea floor movement – then a period of calm This sea Mount Chain indicated the rate and direction of the sea floor movement Rapid at first moving straight South – slowing (the mounts get bigger and bigger) – makes a turn for the South East – slows more and more – until the last 5 mounts form the Hawaiian Islands – each one larger and larger – and the last one – is the largest and still spews lava daily at an almost constant rate This slowing and mount growing larger and larger to become islands – is evidence of a decompression process slowing to its equilibriumAND just as Derek Agar said - We see catastrophic and rapid events separated by GAPS of time (calm periods) Example – Dogger Land Example – Rama’s Bridge Example - the Indus civilization in the Bay of Bengal Example - our modern age – post Ice AgeAll of these cultural events took place during the calm periods between catastrophic earth change Scripture says - Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: Example - our modern age – post Ice Age – followed by a catastrophic and rapid earth change POINT #15 – HIS BEST COMMENT of the entire hourAt 106:00 he says – A VERY SMALL PORTION OF THE EARTH’s CRUST IS VOLCANIC!YESS! – Standard Planet Formation Theory suggest that all of earth’s space rock was digested within the mantel and heavier elements were allowed to settle to the core – to form our heavy iron/nickel core YES! There is no mantel convection – or the entire surface of the glob would be volcanic rock But – as he says – A VERY SMALL PORTION OF THE EARTH’s CRUST IS VOLCANIC! YES! There is no mantel convection – there is no subduction of tectonic plates Instead it is a continuous decompression that fuels (provides the mechanism for) the mid oceanic rifts / volcanology / and plate tectonics Instead it is a continuous decompression that fuels (provides the mechanism for) – an Expanding Earth FD-WEDT simple adds that – the laws of science demand – that the gasses and fluids would have explode first from within the earth as it cracked open at the mid oceanic rifts This would have swamped the smaller planetoid into a water world Oceania And the slower decompressing semi-solids of the mantel then push the hard crustal tectonic plates back up through the waters to form the earth we have today SEE I say nice things about him - but I call him out on his - not errors - but lies - complete and utter missrepresenting mainsteam science textbooks - he speaks nonsense then arues against himselfGap TheoryExample - our modern age – post Ice Age – followed by a catastrophic and rapid earth change Question – was Abraham before the last Ice age or before?Sumar and the city of Ur are post – ice ageThere is so much evidence of a pre-culture it is crazy. Sumar is built where it is because it is the mouth of the 2 rivers – a good port - in the pre-culture the cities were farther out into gulf – where the good port was when sea levels were 400’ lower. This is true of the mouth of the Indus river in a big way. It is found in the Carrabin, and southern Japan. North Atlantic had a mega culture all underwater now. History cannot go – Noah Nimrod the Abraham The last ice age cannot be the flood – survivors – earth did not have oceans only 4 rivers Melting ice never covered the tallest mountain History must go Noah – Nimrod –Gap we call the ice age – Abraham Gap Theory YES mainstream science plays the time game to justify all their findings WEDD + FD-WEDT proves the math incorrectThe math does not indicate increased time – but increased size Do Gaps exist in the geological record – yes – we are in a Gap right now And a whole lot has happened since the last Ice Age or the Flood
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2021 5:00:37 GMT -5
Dave wants me to discuss Don Patton words, from 28:44 (28:44) everybody know it takes a long time to fossilize things?Rob" Well if fossilation takes only a few minutes, as a result castrophic sedimentation over the fossil, is this not the same as a grand flood event? Evolution does not think like this. it takes millions of years to form the grand canyonRob" The grand canyon was made in a few months, all fossils buried there are buried in that time frame, a few months of time", "the fossils themselves buried in seconds". we look in the text books this is the standard sedimentation rates it takes to make 1 foot of paleozoic limestone, 2700 years majority of it, different rates for different portions we are told... this is a conservative estimate, some say it's much older (29:20) in 1996 a text book says 1 cm per 1000 years is typical that's over 30,000 years per foot, these people from Yale are representative authoritiesRob " Evolution teaches the gap time theory these days, that the fossils are covered rapidly and there is a calm period (Dave words) between the layers making the fossils now millions of years in time as the layers took millions of years between each layer of calm. sort of reminds me of the cartoon , how big does a stone have to grow before it becomes a rock. its growing real slow do rocks grow? or do rocks deteriorate?Rob " I admit this mocking is not necessary. (30:07) if they grew even slowly you got a rock house, and an extra bedroom,... rocks don't do that, they deteriorate that's not the propaganda that's put outRob " I admit this mocking is not necessary. However Don is speaking of propaganda, and this is what evolution is, propaganda. (30:26) notice the picture of beautiful fossil spider theres a sign there in a national monument that says 2 inches equals one million years that slower than Page, still on the order you typically here... think about this for a minute
Rob " I admit this mocking is not necessary. However Don is speaking of propaganda, and this is what evolution is, propaganda. Evolution wants you to think spider was buried rapidly but in the calm periods (Dave's words) the fossil is embedded in a million years of time. Question is any animal since Gen :1 have the possibility of being a million years old? No. The only amount of time since day one from earth based local time, the forward movement of yom is around 6,000 years, so the oldest fossil on earth is no older than 6,000 years. Most dinosaur bones are around 4,500 years old, hence still stink and still have musle and blood tissues you can stretch inside the bones.... not millions of years old. a human hair , would take 2500 years to cover one hair is the spider going to hold still for 2500 yrs while rock grows around it.
Rob " I admit this mocking is not necessary. However Don is mocking the propaganda. Dillion" Robert Hooke wrote "From all which, and, several other particulars which I observ'd, I cannot but think, that all these, and most other kinds of strong bodies which are found thus strangely figured, do owe their formation and figuration, not to any kind of Plastick virtue inherent in the earth, but to the shells of certain shel-fishes, which, either by some Deluge, Inundation, Earthquake, or some such means, came to be thrown to that place, and there to be fill'd with some kind of Mudd or Clay, or petrifying Water, or some other substance, which in tract of time has been settled together in those shelly moulds into those shaped substances we now find them; ." Robert Hooke says a deluge, the term used for a Great Flood event in his day... Notice what Dave thinks" D"POINT # 1 3 – WHAT DOES HE GET RIGHT = Catastrophic Earth Change Around 102-103 he makes the final point – these things happened rapidly
"Agreed – Volcanic eruptions like Mt. St. Hellens are catastrophic and almost instantaneous events The loss of Protoplanet Earth’s atm was the result of a shock wave = a catastrophic and rapid event The Laws of equilibrium demand that the gasses and then the fluids would have exploded from the earth = a catastrophic and rapid event Scripture tells us the decompression even was violent for about 40 days Scripture tells us it took around 400 days before the first dry land pushed its way up through the waters Events that caused fossil beds = floods / earthquakes / mud flows/etc Each a catastrophic and rapid eventRob " correct than the entire evidence of the Grand Canyon is just 440 days old in time. Dave" The fossil record show at least 5 separate mass extinction event = catastrophic and rapid The fossil record also show periodic explosions of new life = catastrophic and rapid If an asteroid stuck earth 65M yrs ago – it was catastrophic and rapid event No one is arguing against the idea of catastrophic and rapid earth change No one is arguing against the idea of catastrophic and rapid creative events" Rob " Prove this weird stuff about millions of years of earth time to me? I though you said time is not measurable, relative??? Dave continues " 2- Patton demands that earth’s history has been one a catastrophic and rapid event after another from the beginning right up until today This is not what we observe in the evidenceRob " Prove this weird stuff .... for me the one event, the great flood of Noah, was the beginning of all RA ever since upon the earth. 247wallst.com/special-report/2019/11/15/17-cataclysmic-events-that-changed-the-earth-forever/2/ Cataclysmic Events That Changed the Earth Forever Collision with Theia. > Era: 4.5 billion years ago. ... The Great Oxidation Event. > Era: 2.5 billion years ago. ... Vredefort impact. > Era: 2 billion years ago. ... Sudbury Basin impact. ... > Era: 1.8 billion years ago Acraman impact. ... > Era: 580 million years ago Events leading to Ordovician extinction. ... > Era: 440 million years ago Eruption leading to Permian extinction. ... > Era: 252 million years ago Underwater eruption leading to End-Triassic extinction. > Era: 201 million years ago Chicxulub impact > Era: 65 million years ago (the Flood of Noah) Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum > Era: 56 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions > Era: 2.1 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions >, 1.2 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions >, 640,000 years ago Toba eruption > Era: 74,000 years ago Mount Thera eruption > Era: 3,600 years ago (Moses and the Exodus) Huaynaputina eruption > Era: 1600 A.D. Tambora eruption > Era: 1815 A.D. Krakatoa eruption 1883
Rob " Prove this weird stuff about millions of years of earth time to me? Patton demands that earth’s history has been one a catastrophic and rapid event after another from the beginning right up until today This is not what we observe in the evidence
We see catastrophic and rapid events separated by GAPS of time"
Rob " Prove this weird "gaps of time" to me? D" The Hawaiian Sea Mount Chain - Is a perfect indicator of this catastrophic and rapid change followed by gaps or periods of calm Each mount represents a period of clam – when the mount was allowed to form Each mount also represents the rate of eruption and the length of the calm period Then catastrophically and rapid the sea floor moved – shifted to a new location The another period of calm – then catastrophically and rapid the sea floor movement – then a period of calm AND just as Derek Agar said - We see catastrophic and rapid events separated by GAPS of time (calm periods) Scripture says -
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth
Rob " Why not during the flood violent surges and rest periods, ie seconds of violence followed by seconds of rest, all during the 400 days of RA? D" POINT #15 – HIS BEST COMMENT of the entire hour At 106:00 he says – A VERY SMALL PORTION OF THE EARTH’s CRUST IS VOLCANIC! YES! There is no mantel convection – or the entire surface of the glob would be volcanic roc D"Final opinion of Don Patton He is not an honest scientist and he does not present other people’s opinions honestly I am sorry to say this – Don Patton is a buffoon – he is pushing a church agenda and he has to lie and misrepresent to get the job done Anyone who falls for the science presented by Don Patton in this video is a high school dropout – or most certainly a product of a public school system" --------------------------------------------- D" Genesis chapter 1 is told form whose perspectives man’s on earth or God’s 1 day in God’s time is how long? R" Man on earth time, D" 1 day in God’s time is how long? R" not interested in God's time, only man on earth and our local time. Stop switching frames of reference. Explain your millions of years (calm periods) from your evidence? The first RA event on earth was the Noah flood. Nothing before this. No rain, no summer, no winter, no volcanoes, no eartquakes, no huge mountains, no Mt Sinai, no large salt water oceans. No floating continents, one land mass around Eden. After the Noah event, RA periods continue with calm periods, ice ages, darkened sun periods, etc. D" The average lifespan of a species in the fossil record is around a million years. Time is not linear – any discussion of time is error either way – therefore it is a stupid argumentR" you had better start explaining because as a science person you are confusing me as a science person. Chicxulub impact > Era: 65 million years ago (the Flood of Noah) Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum > Era: 56 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions > Era: 2.1 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions >, 1.2 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions >, 640,000 years ago Toba eruption > Era: 74,000 years ago Mount Thera eruption > Era: 3,600 years ago (Moses and the Exodus)
You made some time claims already about the past, so start explaining. D" No – just proves as the earth changed some new creatures appeared and other disappearedR" what? Rob posted" You mention something of Robert Hooke, suggesting He was a supporter of evolution? How can that be when Darwin wrote evolution as a theory much later?Dave replied" I DID NO SUCH THING – honesty Robert – do you have any I present his words as a published scientist of his day
Dave replied before " Taphonomy has been a part of mainstream science and fully published for peer review in 1665 -Did you learn your science from mainsteam science education or from a church?
Rob responds" There is a hint Dave of you discrediting me, using the quote of Dillion about Robert Hooke's words. I simply said Taphonomy is not taught as a common thing in evolution books, they only invented "calm periods of time" "gap between layers" in order to make the millions of years of time fit. This propaganda came later, it was not presented like this at first. Robert Hooke speaks of a deluge, he is a Creationist, so DIllion is actually using Hooke to support my view, not your view Dave. (technically Hooke does mention other means of the fossil process apart from a deluge) D" I am content to say this is all reletively linear - I also know that before the flood things were different Time is not linearR" Dave with God making all things functional, I suspect the rotation of earth around the axis would have been 24.0000 hours exactly and the journey around the sun precisely 12 lunar months of 30 days each, making 360 days to a year, with 12 months, and this is a perfect circle of 360 degrees. The period of yom from day one would have been relative to earth time, a perfect 24 hours of time. The Creation of thing on earth took just a week of time. Time is very linear on earth, when measured by earth. Everything made for earth was very functional. Zero tilt, so the seasons did not exist, a perfect circle orbit so no seasons of summer and winter (your Enoch writer wrote words wrong - Enoch the true man never wrote words, unnecessary- perfect memory). D" So time can be measured in a linear fashion. From man’s perspective in this dimension - correctR" so stick to earth based time, not interested in relative time from another frame of reference, D" Move 62 miles above the center and you are weightlessR"And this mere distance is measureable? G= mxm/d2 62 miles = 80 kms so 80/7,000 km (radius of earth) = 1 by 10 -4 . That is 0.0004 difference. So you weigh 0.4 gram less than me closer to the centre of earth? Most of us measure gravity to one of 2 decimal places.... so are you suggesting we can measure things to a standard of 5 decimal places in all things certain? hardly. I studied scientific notation at uni, only few things I remember. Standard of significance. Since we quote G = 9.8m/s that is one figure of accuracy, we all weigh the same on earth Dave, regardless of distance. It also implies your mass is fixed to 5 decimal places too, don't we shed skins cells at a rate of 60 grams per day? Let's be realistic with our data, OK? You say earth is losing 90 tonnes of mass every day from space? D" SEE I say nice things about him - but I call him out on his - not errors - but lies - complete and utter missrepresenting mainsteam science textbooks - he speaks nonsense then arues against himself
Gap Theory Example - our modern age – post Ice Age – followed by a catastrophic and rapid earth changeR" My understanding is Dave, "calm periods of time" or "gap theory" is a new evolution theory to explain the millions of years in the layers and fossils, it wasn't presented like that in 1975. D" History cannot go – Noah Nimrod the Abraham
The last ice age cannot be the flood – survivors – earth did not have oceans only 4 rivers Melting ice never covered the tallest mountain
History must go Noah – Nimrod –Gap we call the ice age – Abraham
Gap Theory YES mainstream science plays the time game to justify all their findings WEDD + FD-WEDT proves the math incorrect The math does not indicate increased time – but increased size Do Gaps exist in the geological record – yes – we are in a Gap right now And a whole lot has happened since the last Ice Age or the FloodR" Care to explain yourself, because I don't follow you. D" Do Gaps exist in the geological record – yes – we are in a Gap right nowR" I would say no, what does gap theory mean to you Dave? Are you saying dinosaurs are millions of years old for example? Dinosaur co-existed at Job's time. Day 6 with mankind. Marco Polo writes the Chinese used dinosaurs in the time of the emporers, around 11 century AD. South America Inca stones aldo show man with dinosaurs. Fossils of dinosaur bones ar eonly 4,500 years old. What does a gap theory mean? A deluge flood is one event in time, 440 days of flooding. Three miles of layers laid done in a single period of time, 440 days of flooding. No such thing as a million years of local yom time since the Creation of things on earth. That is my view. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 9, 2021 10:47:57 GMT -5
Dave wants me to discuss Don Patton words, from 28:44 I have been trying to for 6 months ever since you post the videoit takes millions of years to form the grand canyon Rob" The grand canyon was made in a few months Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premise(29:20) in 1996 a text book says 1 cm per 1000 years is typical that's over 30,000 years per foot, these people from Yale are representative authorities Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premise Are you trying to say that sediment does not accumulate?Rob " Evolution teaches the gap time theory these days, that the fossils are covered rapidly and there is a calm period (Dave words) between the layers making the fossils now millions of years in time as the layers took millions of years between each layer of calm. Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premiseRob " I admit this mocking is not necessary. His mocking is incorrectly presenting mainstream science – so he can argue against his own lie(30:07) if they grew even slowly you got a rock house, and an extra bedroom,... that's not the propaganda that's put out Rob " I admit this mocking is not necessary. Is this a true statement or a lie?Rob " I admit this mocking is not necessary. However Don is speaking of propaganda, and this is what evolution is, propaganda Please show me a text book on evolution that says the spider formed the way Don Patton says Please show me a text book that say rock continually grow bigger and bigger Is this a true statement or a lie?Question is any animal (species) since Gen :1 have the possibility of being a million years old? Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premiseRob " I admit this mocking is not necessary. However Don is mocking the propaganda. Show me the propaganda – quote a text book that agrees with Don PattonDillion" Robert Hooke wrote " either by some Deluge Robert Hooke says a deluge, the term used for a Great Flood event in his day...DelugeNoun: a severe flood. "this may be the worst deluge in living memory" Similar:flood, flash flood, torrent, spate Verb - inundate with a great quantity of something. "he has been deluged with offers of work" Any flood is called a delugeNotice what Dave thinks" D"POINT # 13 – WHAT DOES HE GET RIGHT = Catastrophic Earth Change Rob " correct than the entire evidence of the Grand Canyon is just 440 days old in time. Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premiseRob " Prove this weird stuff about millions of years of earth time to me? I though you said time is not measurable, relative??? Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premise Don’t you have any other argument?Dave continues " 2- Patton demands that earth’s history has been one a catastrophic and rapid event after another from the beginning right up until today This is not what we observe in the evidence Rob " Prove this weird stuff .... for me the one event, the great flood of Noah, was the beginning of all RA ever since upon the earth. And with no Gap – we should have seen the end of the world a long time ago – but we haven’t – there has been many years since the last catastrophic earth changeRob " Prove this weird stuff about millions of years of earth time to me? Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premise Don’t you have any other argument?Rob " Why not during the flood violent surges and rest periods, ie seconds of violence followed by seconds of rest, all during the 400 days of RA? Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premise Don’t you have any other argument?--------------------------------------------- D"Genesis chapter 1 is told form whose perspectives man’s on earth or God’s 1 day in God’s time is how long?R" Man on earth time,You deny scripture 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. Sorry Robert - Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premise Don’t you have any other argument?D"The average lifespan of a species in the fossil record is around a million years. Time is not linear – any discussion of time is error either way – therefore it is a stupid argument R" you had better start explaining because as a science person you are confusing me as a science person.Chicxulub impact > Era: 65 million years ago (the Flood of Noah) Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum > Era: 56 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions > Era: 2.1 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions >, 1.2 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions >, 640,000 years ago Toba eruption > Era: 74,000 years ago Mount Thera eruption > Era: 3,600 years ago (Moses and the Exodus) You made some time claims already about the past, so start explaining.(it is not the time - or the date - it is the order - Time is not linear) Dave replied before "Taphonomy has been a part of mainstream science and fully published for peer review in 1665 -Did you learn your science from mainsteam science education or from a church? Rob responds" There is a hint Dave of you discrediting me, using the quote of Dillion about Robert Hooke's words. I simply said Taphonomy is not taught as a common thing in evolution books Sorry Robert – the concept has been in the scientific literature since 1665D"So time can be measured in a linear fashion. From man’s perspective in this dimension - correct R" so stick to earth based time, not interested in relative time from another frame of reference, Was Genesis written from man’s perspective?D"Move 62 miles above the center and you are weightless R"And this mere distance is measureable? G= mxm/d2 Most of us measure gravity to one of 2 decimal places.... so are you suggesting we can measure things to a standard of 5 decimal places in all things certain? hardly. Sorry if you are upset – your opinion of absoluteness are incorrect Einstein has been validated – time and gravity are measured at different rates dependent upon the perspective of the viewer – God says it – King David said if – Peter said it – Einstein said it Your own equation G=mxm/d2 - the exponet makes this graph a curve What is linear about a curve? E=mc2 - the exponet makes this graph a curve What is linear about a curve?Gap Theory Example - our modern age – post Ice Age – followed by a catastrophic and rapid earth change R" My understanding is Dave, "calm periods of time" or "gap theory" is a new evolution theory to explain the millions of years in the layers and fossils, it wasn't presented like that in 1975. YES – Gap Theory explains the gaps between the fossil bedsThere used to be mastodons – dig deep in the right place and you will find them Dig shallow anywhere today and you will not find them You can say the change was 100 years / 1000 years / or 25000 years = Even 1 week = a gap in time between when they existed and when they don’t D" Do Gaps exist in the geological record – yes – we are in a Gap right now R" I would say no, what does gap theory mean to you Dave? Are you saying dinosaurs are millions of years old for example? Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premise Don’t you have any other argument?Dinosaur co-existed at Job's time. Day 6 with mankind. Marco Polo writes the Chinese used dinosaurs in the time of the emporers, around 11 century AD. South America Inca stones aldo show man with dinosaurs. Fossils of dinosaur bones ar eonly 4,500 years old. Only proving that the way man measures time is incorrectThis was my very first point – the math they use contains two incorrect assumptions Radiometric dating does not measure time – it measures volume Before the flood – earth is not older – it is larger Time is not linear – on the large scaleEcc 1:1 The words of Kohelet , son of David, king in Jerusalem. Ecc 1:2 Futile! Futile! says Kohelet. Completely meaningless! Everything is futile! Ecc 1:3 What does a person gain in all his labor that he toils under the sun? Ecc 1:4 A generation comes, and a generation goes, but the earth remains forever. Ecc 1:5 The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to the place it rises. Ecc 1:6 The wind goes toward the south, and circles around to the north. Round and round it swirls about, ever returning to its circuits. Ecc 1:7 All the rivers flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place where the rivers flow, there they go again. Ecc 1:8 All things are wearisome. No one can express them. The eye is never satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing. Ecc 1:9 What has been is what will be, and what has been done will be done again. There is nothing new under the sun. Ecc 1:10 Is there anything about which is said, “Look! This is new!”? It was already here long ago, in the ages long before us. Ecc 1:11 There is no remembrance for former things, and things yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow. Time feels linear to man today since our age began (within this perspective – our age)Our age – began with Abraham – our recorded history began with Sumar – and the Fertile Crescent Since then record history has given us a feel for linear time The time between The flood and Nimrod was not one day or one year – the time between Nimrod and Abraham was not one day or one year – there are gaps between both events When Joseph found himself in Egypt – Egypt had been there a 1000 years And before Alexandria was a major city at the mouth of the Nile – mega cities and culture had already lived and died 400’ below the surface of the oceans.(google) How deep is the Cuban underwater city? Overview. Sonar images interpreted as being symmetrical and geometric stone structures resembling an urban complex were first recorded in early 2001 covering an area of 2 square kilometres (200 ha) at depths of between 600 metres (2,000 ft) and 750 metres (2,460 ft). If you try to argue that these underwater structures are pre-flood artifacts Then you argue that the pre-flood world was as large as today Then you argue that the pre-flood world had large oceans – because these ruins are all port cities If you say this was the pre-flood world – then you suggest melting waters from the last ice age covered the tallest mountain to a depth of 20’ – then vanished into thin air Will you argue an ice age never happened to make your 6000 year old earth a reality Current Jewish calendars or The Creation Institute allow for this evidence – WHY?Ecc 1:9 What has been is what will be, and what has been done will be done again. There is nothing new under the sun. Ecc 1:10 Is there anything about which is said, “Look! This is new!”? It was already here long ago, in the ages long before us. Ecc 1:11 There is no remembrance for former things, and things yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow. in the ages long before us.Gen 1:1-3 = Reset Gen chpt 1-3 = Reset Gen 4-8 – flood = Reset Gen 9-11 – Nimrod = Reset Abraham – recorded history begins (our age) and our perception of linear time
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2021 21:08:04 GMT -5
D" Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premiseR" OK so the Grand Canyon was made in less than 440 days of time. Great. We both agree? I quote" Some estimates suggest the Grand Canyon is 5-6 million years old, but there’s more to calculating the age of the Grand Canyon than you might think. The canyon itself is made up of rock layers that are millions and, in some cases, billions of years old, with each layer representing a different geological time period.SO you disagree with this idea, and agree with me, that the Grand Canyon took less than 400 days to be made, and is left decaying for the past 4,000 years since. D" Please show me a text book that say rock continually grow bigger and bigger Is this a true statement or a lie?R" I quote www sentences:- Rocks can grow taller and larger. When children grow, they get taller, heavier and stronger each year. Rocks also grow bigger, heavier and stronger, but it takes a rock thousands or even millions of years to change. You can find rocks growing taller and bigger in caves and hot springs. What makes a rock grow out of water? Water also contains dissolved metals, which can "precipitate" out of seawater or freshwater to grow rocks. These rocks are called concretions or nodules. Concretions of manganese, iron, copper, nickel and cobalt are found on the bottom of every ocean. They form layer by layer, like a pearl. www.livescience.com/32234-can-rocks-grow.htmlCan rocks grow? The quick answer is yes.To explain how and why, first let's talk about another important question: What is a rock? A rock is a collection of minerals. A mineral is a single crystal made up of elements such as silicon, oxygen and carbon. A mineral becomes a rock when multiple crystals are present, whether that rock is composed of many different kinds minerals or whether they’re all the same kind, said John Brady, a professor of geology at Smith College in Northampton, Massachusetts. Now, how do rocks grow? My garden grows rocks In some parts of the world, the soil seems to produce more rocks than vegetables. "I had a landlady that thought her garden grew rocks because she would pick the rocks out each spring, and the next spring there would be more rocks," Brady recalled. What's really going on involves some combination of causes that push rocks up from beneath the earth, such as frost heaving (an upward swelling of soil), slow erosion or turnover of the soil. Over time, these effects churn the soil, pushing rocks buried underground up to the surface to plague gardeners. RP" Question is any animal (species) since Gen :1 have the possibility of being a million years old?D" Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premiseR" Question how old are dinosaur bones than since they go buried? My answer is 4,500 years old. this is 4,500 local earth yoms ago. What is your answer Dave? D" Show me the propaganda – quote a text book that agrees with Don Patton
R" I list the ten popular textbook today Essentials of Geology Glencoe Earth Science . The Changing Earth GEOL Student Edition California's Amazing Geology Home to both the highest and lowest points in the continental United States, the Golden State makes a great introduction to this field, and California's Amazing Geology (appx. $46) aims to inspire students by explaining how the wonders of the area formed over billions of years. Geology: A Complete Introduction Focus On Elementary Geology Physical Geology Specifically :- opengeology.org/textbook/7-geologic-time/Relative Dating Chart showing the names of the unit of the Geooogic Time Scale A Geologic Time Scale Relative dating is the process of determining if one rock or geologic event is older or younger than another, without knowing their specific ages—i.e., how many years ago the object was formed. The principles of relative time are simple, even obvious now, but were not generally accepted by scholars until the scientific revolution of the 17th and 18th centuries. James Hutton (see Chapter 1) realized geologic processes are slow and his ideas on uniformitarianism (i.e., “the present is the key to the past”) provided a basis for interpreting rocks of the Earth using scientific principles. Dave just about any modern geology text book speaks of evolution timescales D" Deluge Noun: a severe flood. "this may be the worst deluge in living memory" Similar:flood, flash flood, torrent, spate Verb - inundate with a great quantity of something. "he has been deluged with offers of work" Any flood is called a delugeR" Again you are deceived by idioms Dave. Nobody write strictly according to a dictionary Dave, we write idioms all the time, often confusing other cultures.... fully sick woofer, eat my tucker, water at the feet, I confess having trouble reading the preface of the ' De solido intra solidum naturaliter contento dissertationis prodromus’, cannot find the info in the preface, as the evolution people hide the fact Steno was a Creationist, so this book inside the preface says " dedicated to the Noachian Deluge" D" Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premise Don’t you have any other argument?R" Is your copying the paste working for you? Are you tired of a discussion? D" You deny scripture 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.R" Where is GOD Dave? Not on the earth, so a different frame of reference, hence a different timescale. DUH? You are denying discussing the local earth yoms that occurred on earth for earth by GOD 6,000+ yoms ago. RP" you had better start explaining because as a science person you are confusing me as a science person. Chicxulub impact > Era: 65 million years ago (the Flood of Noah) Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum > Era: 56 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions > Era: 2.1 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions >, 1.2 million years ago Yellowstone eruptions >, 640,000 years ago Toba eruption > Era: 74,000 years ago Mount Thera eruption > Era: 3,600 years ago (Moses and the Exodus)You made some time claims already about the past, so start explaining. And Dave's reply is to his own writings:- Sep 8, 2021 at 4:27am Dave said: (it is not the time - or the date - it is the order - Time is not linear
SO Dave does not want to discuss his timescale of the age of these so called gaps in the layers D" Sorry Robert – the concept has been in the scientific literature since 1665R" Well it was not taught to be in Grade 10,11, or 12 high school and my uni professor failed to mention it either, everybody was unbiased in their presentations... I still have a book I wrote about this from grade 11, over 40 years ago, along those days... D" Was Genesis written from man’s perspective?R" Absolutely it was, defining the week of time, so the law of the Ceasing Day was defined. Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Ex 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Very specific mention of yom days here. D "What is linear about a curve?R"Gravity is defined differently to time Dave. SO why do you change themes? A yom is the rotation of earth into the sun, not defined by the speeds of the frames of reference. Maybe some changes, but not relativity changes.... D" YES – Gap Theory explains the gaps between the fossil beds There used to be mastodons – dig deep in the right place and you will find them Dig shallow anywhere today and you will not find them You can say the change was 100 years / 1000 years / or 25000 years = Even 1 week = a gap in time between when they existed and when they don’tR" is that it? your gap theory rests on a few mastodons who happen to be buried here or there? D" This was my very first point – the math they use contains two incorrect assumptions Radiometric dating does not measure time – it measures volume Before the flood – earth is not older – it is largerR" do you have anybody writing lots of details on this, because you are not willing to discuss your ideas to me. Radiometric dating is based on the decay rate of material over time, hence the half life of decay is assumed to be stable over time, got nothing to do with increases in the volume of the earth?? correct me if I am wrong? D "When Joseph found himself in Egypt – Egypt had been there a 1000 years And before Alexandria was a major city at the mouth of the Nile – mega cities and culture had already lived and died 400’ below the surface of the oceans.R" yes a noachian flood buried a previous civilization. So what is your point? D" If you try to argue that these underwater structures are pre-flood artifacts Then you argue that the pre-flood world was as large as today Then you argue that the pre-flood world had large oceans – because these ruins are all port citiesR" God covered the preflood cities, how big were the cities and their technology? As big as ours today...even bigger. Look how much we have achieved in 250 years? What did Adam achieve in 2000 years? Much more than us . D" Ecc 1:11 There is no remembrance for former things, and things yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow.R" OK so God buried it all up on purpose... OK Provide links to back up your gap theory.Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 10, 2021 22:13:15 GMT -5
D"Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premise R" OK so the Grand Canyon was made in less than 440 days of time. Great. We both agree?Sorry Robert – you will not trap me in your gameD"Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premiseThe canyon itself is made up of rock layers that are millions and, in some cases, billions of years old, with each layer representing a different geological time period. SO you disagree with this idea, and agree with me, that the Grand Canyon took less than 400 days to be made, and is left decaying for the past 4,000 years since.No I disagree with both of you – D"Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premiseThe canyon itself is made up of rock layers that are millions and, in some cases, billions of years old, (in a relative older) with each layer representing a different geological time period. D"Please show me a text book that say rock continually grow bigger and bigger Is this a true statement or a lie?R" I quote www sentences:- What makes a rock grow out of water?See what you do – I am speaking of granite or a basalt So you change the subject to sedimentation rates - They form layer by layer, like a pearl. According to you and Don Patton slow sedimentation rates are a lieWhat makes a rock grow out of water? - so according to you and Don patton how long does it take to form an island? a few days - hours - minutes -- or a few thousand years RP" Question is any animal (species) since Gen :1 have the possibility of being a million years old? D" Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premise R" Question how old are dinosaur bones than since they go buried? My answer is 4,500 years old. this is 4,500 local earth yoms ago. Your answer = 1 yom = 1 earth revolution – so 4500 yom = 12.3 years oldWhat is your answer Dave? First – you are not correct Second – let me see – how should I say this so you will finally hear meD"Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premiseD"Show me the propaganda – quote a text book that agrees with Don Patton Dave just about any modern geology text book speaks of evolution timescalesSo does Gen chapter 1 - DUH[/b] D"Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premise Don’t you have any other argument? R" Is your copying the paste working for you? Are you tired of a discussion?I would love to have an intelligent discussion!1- you say - you deny scientific time as fact 2- yet your only argument is scientific timeI have tried to address this with you sevral times - you just blow me offYou did not even address my view!My Point – my view – the science of the fact The MATHAMATICAL ASSUMPTION made by science in the calculation of radioactive decay is flawedActually two assumptions are made in error 1- the amount of decayed radioactive isotope present today = a measure of time 2- The amount of parent isotope present in the past = the same as today 1- The math to measure time = (amount of parent in the beginning) – a constant decay rate = the amount of decayed isotope we have today 2- how much parent was present in the beginning? = the same as we have today So the math is actually – (the amount we have today)-a constant decay rate = time That assumption is based entirely on another assumption that – the earth has always been the same Whether or not you accept WEDD or FD-WEDT The Truth – the earth was not the same yesterday as today The Truth – before the flood – things were different in many ways If you accept WEDD and the FD-WEDT – then earth began as a very large gas giant proto-planet Super island Pangea was not an Island in a water world – it was the solid rocky planetoid-Pangea at the center of a gas giant with a large firmament above View AttachmentIf you accept WEDD and FD-WEDT then the flood even change our entire solar system All the inner planets were swept clear of their atms – the inner solar system was cleared of is meteor debri – making the asteroid belt and leaving the outer planets as gas giants If you accept WEDD and FD-WEDT then the decompression sequence give explanation and MECHINISM for about 7 zillion unanswered questions from many different sciences Plate tectonics – give mechanism and driving force Volcanology – mechanism and drive force View AttachmentWhy is planet earth different than any other heavenly body - both mechanism and cause Blah blah blah The point – Science assumption #2- The amount of parent isotope present in the past = the same as today = ERRORThere was a lot more in the past of everything – because proto-planet Pangea was a Jupiter sized gas giant The result – the amount of isotope today does not indicate time – but that there was more in the beginningMy Point – my view – the science of the fact The MATHAMATICAL ASSUMPTION made by science in the calculation of radioactive decay is flawedIf you accept WEDD and FD-WEDT and interesting thing happens to the measured time line – it begins to telescope As science measures the past – it begins linear – 1+1+1+1 And this remains relatively constant for C14 for about 12,000 years Then an interesting thing happens 1+1+1 becomes 10+10+10 – then 100+100+100 – then 1M+1M+1M then 100M+100M+100M Time telescopes into the past – the farther back we look the farther it looks – MEASURED RELITIVITY My Point – my view – the science of the fact The MATHAMATICAL ASSUMPTION made by science in the calculation of radioactive decay is flawedThe math does not measure time at all – it measures amount – the farther back you go – before the flood the earth was larger – not olderDISCLAIMER – TIME IS NOT LINEARTime is measure at different rates dependent upon the perspective of the viewer Science say so – scripture says ANY ARGUMENT ABOUT TIME = A STUPID WASTE OF TIMEEven on the smallest scale – quantum physics time does not behave linearly D"You deny scripture 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. R" Where is GOD Dave? Not on the earth, so a different frame of reference, hence a different timescale. DUH? A yom is the rotation of earth into the sun, not defined by the speeds of the frames of reference.You are denying discussing the local earth yoms that occurred on earth for earth by GOD 6,000+ yoms ago. How long is yom 7? 24hrs and 6000 yoms ago is only 16.4 years RP" you had better start explaining because as a science person you are confusing me as a science person. And Dave's reply is to his own writings:- Sep 8, 2021 at 4:27am Dave said: (it is not the time - or the date - it is the order - Time is not linear) SO Dave does not want to discuss his timescale of the age of these so called gaps in the layers1- YES – there is a geological time scale – day 1 + day 2 + day 3 + day 4 + day 5 + day 6 – and Day 7 is not yet over 2- YES – I believe this – very much 3- you want to discuss time – It was my very first point here – you just blew me off 4- you say – you dent scientific time – but it is the only argument you have to offerD" Sorry Robert – the concept has been in the scientific literature since 1665 R" Well it was not taught to meSTOP BLAMING others or your education – what you have been taught has no impact on the facts. D"What is linear about a curve? R"Gravity is defined differently to time Dave. SO why do you change themes? Reality = E=mc2 – Time is written with an exponent – what is linear about a curve? Time is a measure of distance = time = distanceD"YES – Gap Theory explains the gaps between the fossil beds There used to be mastodons – R" is that it? your gap theory rests on a few mastodons who happen to be buried here or there? It is an example – there was a time when Mastodons were found on earth walking around Today – there are none – the time since is a gapThe last catastrophic earth change was the ice age – there has been a geological gap in the record since If you say the last event was the flood – then we are in the gap that exist – until the next catastrophic event happensD"This was my very first point – the math they use contains two incorrect assumptions Radiometric dating does not measure time – it measures volume Before the flood – earth is not older – it is largerR" do you have anybody writing lots of details on this, because you are not willing to discuss your ideas to me. Radiometric dating is based on the decay rate of material over time, hence the half life of decay is assumed to be stable over time, got nothing to do with increases in the volume of the earth?? correct me if I am wrong?So now you are defending scientific time? – you are so confusing D"When Joseph found himself in Egypt – Egypt had been there a 1000 years And before Alexandria was a major city at the mouth of the Nile – mega cities and culture had already lived and died 400’ below the surface of the oceans. R" yes a noachian flood buried a previous civilization. So what is your point?D"If you try to argue that these underwater structures are pre-flood artifacts Then you argue that the pre-flood world was as large as today Then you argue that the pre-flood world had large oceans – because these ruins are all port cities R" God covered the preflood cities, how big were the cities and their technology? As big as ours today...even bigger. Look how much we have achieved in 250 years? What did Adam achieve in 2000 years? REPEAT - Then you argue that the pre-flood world was as large as todayThere is no evidence for this – infact there is so much evident to the contrary its nutsThen you argue that the pre-flood world had large oceans – because these ruins are all port citiesThis is not scriptural – only 4 rivers – possible wide spots and pools – no oceans = no rainIf the waters from the melting ice age covered the tallest mountain to a depth of 20 feet – where did all the water go – when it receded?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2021 15:06:38 GMT -5
D" with each layer representing a different geological time period.R" And what does " with each layer representing a different geological time period." mean Dave? not time - right? D" so according to you and Don patton how long does it take to form an island? a few days - hours - minutes -- or a few thousand yearsR" when Matiput Volcano blew in PNG in 1979, I watched first hand, an island grow out of the ocean, 300m deep to over 150 m high in just one week. And the entire bay of 60sq kms covered in pumice so thick you could walk on the water in shoes made of plywood. Granite rocks according to robert gantry were made in less than seconds by God during Creation Week. D" Second – let me see – how should I say this so you will finally hear me D"Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premiseR" OK why isn't the rotation of earth causing days and years NOT something we can use to measure time in the past Dave? PS I am not talking about relativity time, but rotational time on earth, defined by earth. D" I would love to have an intelligent discussion!R" you are over 60 years old, that is 60 times 365 yoms of the rotation of earth, or 21,900 days + old since earth time can be measured about you, but you say "Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premise" OK discuss why I cannot do this Dave? D "So the math is actually – (the amount we have today)-a constant decay rate = time That assumption is based entirely on another assumption that – the earth has always been the sameR" I agree I would not use radioactive dating to measure a process called "radioactive time", as you say this measure is flawed by assumptions. D" The Truth – the earth was not the same yesterday as today The Truth – before the flood – things were different in many waysR" Yes D" The result – the amount of isotope today does not indicate time R" Yes , so using this process is flawed and not useful at all D" The MATHAMATICAL ASSUMPTION made by science in the calculation of radioactive decay is flawedR" I also agree D" Time telescopes into the past – the farther back we look the farther it looks R" yes, God made our universe look old, Schroeder calls it time stretching. D"The math does not measure time at all – it measures amount – the farther back you go – before the flood the earth was larger – not olderR" Hmm? your theory? I do not count earth time that way, I count the rotation yom of earth, Adam lived so many yoms, etc. Earth was created some 6,000+ years ago. Simple really. use a calculator and add the ages. D" Time is measure at different rates dependent upon the perspective of the viewer Science say so – scripture saysR" Yeah but I am not measuring time, I am counting the yoms of time. Different idea. D" You are denying discussing the local earth yoms that occurred on earth for earth by GOD 6,000+ yoms ago.R" I am not denying this, you are Dave. DO you agree God made creation in seven yoms of time, so that the Sabbath Day was defined as the 7th day of Creation, ie a week of time? De 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: ..therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. Therefore we keep one day every seven days, hence Creation took six literal days of time. D" YES – there is a geological time scale – day 1 + day 2 + day 3 + day 4 + day 5 + day 6 – and Day 7 is not yet overR" If day 7 is not over since Creation, how does one keep the Sabbath each 7 days of time? The term Shabbath means Dave "ceasing day". D" what is linear about a curve?R" Is a curve is large enough, it appears linear. Earth seems flat, when it's not for example. D" Radiometric dating does not measure time – it measures volume Before the flood – earth is not older – it is largerR" OK but I measure time by counting the yoms. D" So now you are defending scientific time? – you are so confusingR" I didn't say I defended it. I count time , the Bible lists ages of humans, so you can count time. Whether a rotation of earth may have been different to our rotation of earth, is not the point, the counting remains the same idea. Earth time can be counted. D"T hen you argue that the pre-flood world had large oceans – because these ruins are all port citiesR" not oceans, maybe some fresh water lakes, the whole of preflood man evidence is buried under the sea. D"I f the waters from the melting ice age covered the tallest mountain to a depth of 20 feet – where did all the water go – when it receded?R" still there on earth above as oceans Dave. Before the flood, land was flatter, more land, less water, most water above in the atmosphere and most under the mantle. So preflood earth had more dry land, heaps of it. During flood land uplifted, now most of earth is oceans, not land. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 11, 2021 16:16:50 GMT -5
D" with each layer representing a different geological time period. R" And what does " with each layer representing a different geological time period." mean Dave? not time - right? Day 1 + day 2 + day 3 + day 4 + day 5 + day 6 + day 7 = geological time priordsD"so according to you and Don patton how long does it take to form an island? a few days - hours - minutes -- or a few thousand years R" when Matiput Volcano blew in PNG in 1979, I watched first hand, an island grow out of the ocean, 300m deep to over 150 m high in just one week. 1- I was questing Don Pattons statement rocks grow – thy grow up be houses 2- I was talking about granets – marbles – basalts 3- you changed the topic to sedimentation rates 4- and and Don Patton mock sedimentation rates – claim it was rapid 5- so you change your story back to catastrophic earth change Is there a chance you could answer a direct question for once?D"Second – let me see – how should I say this so you will finally hear me D"Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premise R" OK why isn't the rotation of earth causing days and years NOT something we can use to measure time in the past Dave? PS I am not talking about relativity time, but rotational time on earth, defined by earth. OK – easy answer – Gods laws – the earth does not rotate at a constant rate China changed the length of our day when they built the 3 George Damn
WEDD + FD-WEDT – the earth was larger in the past – rotation harmonics demand a change in rotational speeds
D"I would love to have an intelligent discussion! R" you are over 60 years old, that is 60 times 365 yoms of the rotation of earth, or 21,900 days + old since earth time can be measured about you, but you say "Time is not linear – you are arguing in incorrect premise" Time is linear from our perspective Recorded history – since Abraham is linearBut you and I are talking about the difference between 130 million years ago or 60 million years ago Not within our perspective – it is relative to us in ancient history D"So the math is actually – (the amount we have today)-a constant decay rate = time That assumption is based entirely on another assumption that – the earth has always been the same R" I agree I would not use radioactive dating to measure a process called "radioactive time", as you say this measure is flawed by assumptions. D"The Truth – the earth was not the same yesterday as today The Truth – before the flood – things were different in many ways R" Yes D"The result – the amount of isotope today does not indicate time R" Yes , so using this process is flawed and not useful at all Not as to date – but is does yield utility in order D" what is linear about a curve? R" Is a curve is large enough, it appears linear. Earth seems flat, when it's not for example.OK agree – within a life span – it appears linear On the larger scale of creation – not linear at all
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2021 13:46:02 GMT -5
D" OK – easy answer – Gods laws – the earth does not rotate at a constant rate China changed the length of our day when they built the 3 George Damn
WEDD + FD-WEDT – the earth was larger in the past – rotation harmonics demand a change in rotational speeds R" Yes, but the rotation event is still defined as one yom.
The technical differences between a yom in actual time may be different to the actual time in the yom measured today, but the Bible is not interested in these details of time. The basic idea of a yom remains defined.
DO you agree with this idea?
D"Time is linear from our perspective Recorded history – since Abraham is linear
But you and I are talking about the difference between 130 million years ago or 60 million years ago Not within our perspective – it is relative to us in ancient history R" first you say time is linear from our perspective, than you say time is not linear and cannot be measured. No such thing as "Time is linear from our perspective, Recorded history – since Abraham is linear" as a time of 60 or even 130 million years, or even 1 million years.
We can count all the yom up to the birth of Adam, and simply add a further 7 yoms until the earth got its Creation makeover by God. Now some like Barry Setterfield postulated that the speed of light is not constant, that in the past was thousands of times faster than today. If this is so than time changes relative to the rotation of the earth yom. Now this is a theory, some Christian people throw around.
However the basic yom is still the same idea.
However Barry says the in the first three days, exponential decay of the speed of light caused the first three days to appear to be very old, like billions, than millions of years of time, but all this within a single yom, the defined rotation speed of the earth. But again this is a theory.
Gerald Schroeder all suggests similar things from a different angle. He says time stretches as the space in which time moves. But the single idea of a yom rotating on earth remains the same, just appears older.
But again this is a theory, just like the theories of Creation you pose.
I don't mind theories, but just remember we see things darkly and the true processes of God are beyond us.
So as to the past, we can count the yom days from Adam, and add a further 7 yoms for the Creation Week. Is God able to create all things in a week? yes. The week of time is special to God because the Sabbath time is defined as a week of time, founded on God by God, not by physics. We defined a Sabbath by counting the yom of time since Creation. This is why I obey the laws of time and do not consider any other process of measuring time by reactions based on assumptions.
Counting yom's of time is not based on any assumption.
As for the actual timing of each yom, as these theories suggest, Hmm? that is a subject to debate and discussion, Scripture does suggest these ideas, but we remain seeing things darkly....
Shalom Hope my computer keeps going
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Post by Dave on Sept 12, 2021 14:37:24 GMT -5
D"Time is linear from our perspective Recorded history – since Abraham is linear But you and I are talking about the difference between 130 million years ago or 60 million years ago Not within our perspective – it is relative to us in ancient history D" what is linear about a curve? R" Is a curve is large enough, it appears linear. Earth seems flat, when it's not for example.OK agree – within a life span – it appears linear On the larger scale of creation – not linear at all I thought there was hope for you – then you post thisR" first you say time is linear from our perspective, than you say time is not linear and cannot be measured. No such thing as "Time is linear from our perspective, Recorded history – since Abraham is linear" as a time of 60 or even 130 million years, or even 1 million years. Either you agree with yourself or you do not – it is hard to tellWe can count all the yom up to the birth of Adam, and simply add a further 7 yoms until the earth got its Creation makeover by God. Counting yom's of time is not based on any assumption.It assumes no gaps in the recordMonday - Gen 8:16 “Come out of the ark, you and your wife, your sons and your sons’ wives with you. Tuesday - Gen 10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah according to their genealogies in their nations, and from these the nations were dispersed on the earth after the flood. Wednesday - Gen 11:1 Now the entire earth had the same language with the same vocabulary. Gen 11:2 When they traveled eastward, they found a valley-plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. Thursday - Gen 11:9 This is why it is named Babel, because Adonai confused the languages of the entire world there, and from there Adonai scattered them over the face of the entire world. Friday - Gen 12:1 Then Adonai said to Abram, “Get going out from your land, and from your relatives, and from your father’s house, to the land that I will show you. Busy week for your theoryHow many days was it before Eve took a bite? Oops! – to many GAPS to be linear in time = one day after the other But it is linear as to orderR" If day 7 is not over since Creation, how does one keep the Sabbath each 7 days of time? The term Shabbath means Dave "ceasing day". WHY would you ask such a thing – KNOW YOUR SCRIPTURE!Heb 4:7 Again, God appoints a certain day—“Today”—saying through David after so long a time, just as it has been said before, “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.” Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. Heb 4:9 So there remains a Shabbat rest for the people of God. Heb 4:10 For the one who has entered God’s rest has also ceased from his own work, just as God did from His. Heb 4:11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one may fall through the same pattern of disobedience. Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works; Heb 4:5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest. If you choose not to enter into the 7th day of rest with God – it is your choiceDo not preach it a lie on this forum – we try to respect the word of God hereDo not change it into an idiom, a metaphor, or a simile – LET SCRIPTURE SPEAK!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2021 16:44:57 GMT -5
Greetings so soon
D" How many days was it before Eve took a bite?
R" My two pennies, it was 4,000 years exactly for Jesus to die on the cross. I would say Eve bit the fruit 33 years or so after Creation week, they enjoyed many many Sabbath meetings with GOD.
D"If you choose not to enter into the 7th day of rest with God – it is your choice Do not preach it a lie on this forum – we try to respect the word of God here R" What did I say that was wrong Dave?
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
What would be the Hebrew word for this sabbatismos ?
shabbathown ?
From here
Le 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest
Two different Hebrew words here, Sabbath and Shabbathown
What do these two words mean?
Hebrews 4 is a hard passage, so please present your world view on it.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 12, 2021 19:21:04 GMT -5
Gen 2:2 God completed—on the seventh day—His work that He made, and He ceased—on the seventh day—from all His work that He made. Gen 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, for on it He ceased from all His work that God created for the purpose of preparing.
R" If day 7 is not over since Creation, how does one keep the Sabbath each 7 days of time? The term Shabbath means Dave "ceasing day". WHY would you ask such a thing – KNOW YOUR SCRIPTURE! No Robert – I cannot imagine how polluted your Christian education has been in the past – but God created for 6 days – then God rested on the 7th day
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. There is another day to come – Day 8 Rev 21
Until then Heb 4:9 So there remains a Shabbat rest for the people of God. Heb 4:10 For the one who has entered God’s rest has also ceased from his own work, just as God did from His. Heb 4:11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest…
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
What would be the Hebrew word for this sabbatismos ? Please stay on track – we are discussing the 7th day – do not change the subject
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. Rest - G2664 – καταπαύω - to settle down, that is, (literally) to colonize, or (give) rest (-rain), abode Heb 4:9 So there remains a Shabbat rest for the people of God. Rest = G4520 – σαββατισμός - a “sabbatism”, rest - the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven) Heb 4:10 For the one who has entered God’s rest has also ceased from his own work, just as God did from His. Rest - G2663 – κατάπαυσις - abode: - rest. Heb 4:11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest… Rest - G2663 – κατάπαυσις - abode: - rest.
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, - a home, abode God would not have spoken of another day later on. – Day 8 – Rev 21 Heb 4:9 So there remains a Shabbat rest (a heaven) for the people of God. Heb 4:10 For the one who has entered God’s (abode/home) has also ceased from his own work, just as God did from His. – YEP – mortal death + rest from his work I heaven – at home with the Lord Heb 4:11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that - heaven – at home with the Lord
Now back to the question before you R" If day 7 is not over since Creation, how does one keep the Sabbath each 7 days of time? Answer – God rested on Day 7 – we can enter that day with Him – home in heaven with God Day 7 continues – until – Day 8 (another day later on. – Rev 21)
G2250 - ἡμέρα - Feminine (with G5610 implied) of a derivative of ἧμαι hēmai (to sit; akin to the base of G1476) meaning tame, that is, gentle; day, that is, (literally) the time space between dawn and dark, or the whole 24 hours Hebrew yom (but several days were usually reckoned by the Jews as inclusive of the parts of both extremes); figuratively a period (always defined more or less clearly by the context): - age, + alway, (mid-) day (by day, [-ly]), + for ever, judgment, (day) time, while, years. Yes – as with English – if I say I saw you the other day (does not mean 24hrs?) If I say – remember the day when x happened – did it happen for 24 hrs If I say – there will come a day when blah blah - is it 24hr
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