|
Post by Dave on Feb 23, 2021 13:54:40 GMT -5
The pandemic is fake and made up, the millions die from other medical conditions.How many people are sick around you – how many people do you know that have diedAgreed – many of the death are pre-existing weakness that collapsed Virginia’s daughter-in-law’s father was 86 with COPD – and developed pneumonia Every year – patients with pre-existing weakness do collapsed – because the flu pushed them over the edge – this is a true statement Every year the flu is responsible for infant and toddler deaths – another group of pre-existing weakness AND to date no one has ever died from HIV – it is always a related collapse Every year the flu makes its round in America – a population of 350 million And every year there are some 3000 flu related deaths Covid – 500,000 related deaths - this is significant (regardless of the relationship)Death by traffic accident per year =16,988 in 2019 and 16,650 in 2020, (America)Because of these 20,000 deaths by carWe have to get a license Have to have insurance Have to obey traffic laws To combat traffic deaths in the 1970s the national speed limit was 55MPH There are millions spent on road safety – cars cost $$$$ because of safety regulation There are a million traffic cops – making random stops – imposing fines and penalties There are traffic schools- traffic courts - and traffic jams All to keep the public safe - All because of 20,000 deaths per yearCovid 500,000 deaths this year – directly or indirectly - requires attention Cars and Politicians and the phrase - All to keep the public safeSo many laws and regulations – I still don’t wear a seatbelt The amount of money we spend on road safety is amazing – staggering The total amount of our infrastructure (people – and roads – courts -and cops) is also staggering All to keep the public safe – 2015 saw 37,000 traffic fatalities All to keep the public safe – we elect representatives to make sure we are safe on the road Covid 500,000 deaths this year – directly or indirectly - requires attentionPoliticians and the phrase - All to keep the public safe Typhiod Mary Ever hear of her – she is famous in American medical history 1938 she was a cook at a (Bronx)NY restaurant - she passes on Typhus to all her customers She was healthy – but a lethal carrier P oliticians and the phrase - All to keep the public safeThe first health laws were drafted to protect the public VacinesDisclaimer – I am an anti-vaxer – and my children are not current with their peers We were not allowed into 4H And – we home school So far so good – yet realize that it only takes one traffic accident to change a family forever Vaccine Conspiracy – most people do not understand the full scope – full promise – and the depths of its dark side 1- This type of medical research has always been tied to the US Military and US Government For simplicity – let’s say it all began with the Panama Cannel This was a large scale US Government activity outside of America The operation of so many men outside of our boarder was the responsibility of the US Army Expeditionary Force Malaria, Dengue Fever, Yellow fever were obstacles for the Army and the US Government to overcome The natives were also effected – 1 in 10 / but Americans fell 8 out of 10 Today – the human genome project is houses at Langley Virginia at the CIA And the CDC is actually a division of the Navy How are ANTI-BODIES (vaccines) made (talking about viruses)Antigens = The surface of all biology – a mountain range of molecular groups – any lump or bump that is identifiable is a target antigen Mouse Monoclonal Antibodies are used in many things – biology – medicine – industry Lab mice have an excellent immune system – they why we study them Man takes (any lump or bump that is identifiable is a target antigen) and injects it into the mouse The mouse makes antibodies to that target antigen it is foreign to him and his body wants to get rid of it Nature The more specific the (lump or bump)target antigen = the more specific the antibody made Now you kill the mouse and harvest its blood to remove the antibody How – you pass the blood over the known target antigen and they bind together Then you make the pH really alkaline and they release again MMCA – (mouse monoclonal antibodies) are never used inside the human body They are foreign to man and would be antigenic stimuli themselves We use them to test human samples – in many ways – the home pregnancy test Women spill a hormone called HCG into their urine at 10 days pregnancy (5 days serum) Women pee on a stick coated with MMCA-anti-HCG The HCG will stick to the stick if present (makes a line or a +) No HCG – no change to the stick Easy – I got paid money to do this for ER The Promise of ImmunotherapyPresident Jimmy Carter was diagnosed with’ brain cancer mets’ in 2017 This is not a tumor – it is small patches everywhere – poka-dotted – freckled They sampled his cancer – grew an antibody specific to his cancer and gave him a shot 30 days later – cancer free This is not evil – this is not man attempting to rewrite God’s creation – it is all mitzvahGen 1:28 God blessed them and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, fill the land, and conquer it. This is man struggle against the world and 3D physicality (archon’ domain/kingdom)But doesn’t this knowledge seem disproportional with history?Dan 12:4 But you, Daniel, close up the words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will run back and forth and knowledge will increase.’ Depends on where you see yourself in historyHuman Vaccine antibodies are made how? 2 ways = Chicken eggs and legalized Human AbortionThe chicken egg is a large single cell Man introduces the flue virus and the chicken egg makes mass quantities of vaccine grade antibodies instead of dividing into an embryo FYI – if you are allergic to chicken eggs you do not have to receive a flu vaccine www.cdc.gov/Egg-Based Flu VaccinesThe most common way that flu vaccines are made is using an egg-based manufacturing process that has been used for more than 70 years Cell-Based Flu VaccinesThere also is a cell-based production process for flu vaccines … The process of creating cell-based flu vaccines involves several steps. First, CDC or one of its laboratory partners, use influenza viruses that have been grown in cells to make CVVs, which are then provided to a vaccine manufacturer. Next, the vaccine manufacturer inoculates the CVVs into cultured mammalian cells (instead of into eggs) and allows the CVVs to replicate (i.e., make copies) for a few days. The Truth that will upset youWhat are mammalian cells and what cells are the CDC talking about? A Brief History of Human Diploid Cell StrainsRene Leiva, M.D. Originally published in the National Catholic Bioethics Quarterly 6.3 (Autumn 2006): 443–451 © 2006 by The National Catholic Bioethics Center "The Pontifical Academy for Life published a response about the moral legitimacy of immunizing children with vaccines manufactured using cell strains derivedfrom aborted human fetuses. In order to fully appreciate the level of cooperationinvolved among different agents, it is important to review the history of the development of these cell strains: “The need to articulate a moral reflection on the matter in question arises mainly from the connection which exists between the vaccines mentioned above and the procured abortions from which biological material necessaryfor their preparation was obtained.” Human diploid cell strains (HDCSs) are batches of cells that are currently usedfor different purposes, including culturing viruses for the manufacturing of vaccines.HDCS-derived human vaccines have been licensed worldwide for polio IVP andOVP, rabies, rubella, measles, varicella-zoster, mumps, and hepatitis A. Current vaccines contain extremely small traces of the original fetal DNA, while the cell strainscontain the complete fetal chromosomal set. The choice of HDCS was made among several based on their susceptibility to many human viruses, their good characterization, the enormous number of cells obtained from one original culture, their long storage potential, the low cost of cell procurement, an excellent record of safety, and the very low risk of latent virus on the cells themselves. Even though there are many cell strains in use in research, the most well known are WI-38 and MRC-5. These two cell strains come from two deliberately aborted fetuses. But as the evidence shows, there were more abortions involved to achieve the technical expertise needed for development of these cell strains. In addition, other cell strains have been developed for vaccine manufacturing and other purposes. Because of its relevance to this discussion, I will also review the history of the virus strain RA 27/3, as it is the source of the only rubella vaccine available in North America and in fact, most of the world" Roe v. Wade 1973 America(wiki) Prior to Roe v. Wade, 30 states prohibited abortion without exception, 16 states banned abortion except in certain special circumstances (e.g., rape, incest, health threat to mother), 3 states allowed residents to obtain abortions, and New York allowed abortions generally. But the system needs more tissue – so abortion became nationally legal 1974 pneumococcus vaccine is still grown in the lung tissue of a 28 week aborted black girl from Philadelphia Vaccines and auto immune syndromes Each vaccine made from human tissue contains a small portion of that human DNA Exposure to human DNA allws the formation of anti-human-DNA antibodies – auto-immune sydroms Vaccines and contaminates – mercury – squalene – aluminumAll needed in the production process Mercury to maintain sterility – Squalene and Aluminum to facilitate deliverability These additives make the vaccine particle large enough for your body to recognize it immediately – so that you make an immediate immune response The Corrupting of Vaccines into WeaponsThe CDC and the US Army both have scholarly articles in print discussing ‘Piggy Backing’ The ability to add a weaponized particle to a standard vaccine Most articles are about the VMAX2-Gene-vaccine People who possess this gene seems to be more zealous about religion Preachers run in families – Aaron was all one family Adding this VMAX2-Gene vaccine to something like FLU or COVID could calm down some of the religious tension in the world Was COVID made by man in a labMan cannot create – Viruses can cross species when conditions are RIPE – it has happened all throughout history Pandemic viral outbreaks can be cause by solar minimums – it has happened all throughout history Today in crowded dirty nasty China with viral labs it is RIPE Today with a global population of 7 billion – conditions are RIPE Today with international trade and transport – conditions are RIPE Conspiracy Theorist ConcludeThis must be the work of some sinister evil If you are a Feel Good Roman Catholic – your automatic answer for all the hardships = your satan This must be some evil conspiracy and satan is behind it - has to be – it is ra - evil Scripture says what about the end-of-daysMat 24:7 For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. Deu 11:2 and ye have known to-day—for it is not your sons who have not known, and who have not seen the chastisement of Jehovah your God, Heb 12:6 for whom the Lord doth love He doth chasten, and He scourgeth every son whom He receiveth;' Rev 3:19 'As many as I love, I do convict and chasten; be zealous, then, and reform; Num 14:11 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them? Num 14:12 I will smite them with the pestilence, Deu 28:20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me. Deu 28:21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. Jer 21:4 Thus saith the LORD God of Israel; Behold, I will turn back the weapons of war that are in your hands, wherewith ye fight against the king of Babylon, and against the Chaldeans, which besiege you without the walls, and I will assemble them into the midst of this city. Jer 21:5 And I myself will fight against you with an outstretched hand and with a strong arm, even in anger, and in fury, and in great wrath. Jer 21:6 And I will smite the inhabitants of this city, both man and beast: they shall die of a great pestilence. 2Sa 24:15 So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men. To a Jew – or Messianic Jew – it is all the Hand of GodLast comment about a god of evil that opposes GodGod’s word says these things will happen – if satan opposes God – why does satan facilitate the unfolding of God’s Word just as God wrote it Jesus says Mat 24:7 For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. Why doesn’t your satan work against (in opposition to) God to promote peace and health?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 4:50:31 GMT -5
Nice comments on vaccine development Dave
I heard once that human DNA cells are grown for thousands of generation artificially, not really the human it came from is it? More like a clone of a clone of a clone, ??
Some answers to your question:
D" if satan opposes God – why does satan facilitate the unfolding of God’s Word just as God wrote it
Because GOD knows all things, whereas Satan doesn't know.
D" Why doesn’t your satan work against (in opposition to) God to promote peace and health?
Satan does promote peace. And a heaven on earth. Why do you think we have survived so long? The end of time should have begun in Roman times, or in 1844, or 1996, or ?? Satan keeps making humans sleepy, putting off the end of time GOD wants.... so the new earth can be created and Satan and his angels finally cease to exist. Satan does not want his kingdom to end, so keeps things running nicely...sleepy...not too many wars...
Who originally told GOD off ? Satan did.
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
GOD is mocking Satan here, see Job is the most perfect man on earth, in your kingdom of ra,
What does Satan say?
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
God hedges sinners from Satan when sinners seek salvation. It's a promise. Satan challenges GOD to let Job be at Satan's attacks once more....
God agrees, only because GOD sees Job, whereas Satan cannot see, Job loves GOD more than ra can achieve.
God reads the heart, Satan cannot read the heart, He only guesses at what we do.
God is in control of this controversy, its a war over tov and ra, two kingdoms on earth.
You do not acknowledge in the beginning where ra originally came from? Sure ra must be created by GOD, but the ra originally came from a sinless creature wanting to be the first creature to sin. You do not see this idea. Normally sin cannot exist in the presence of GOD, so normally you cannot sin unless GOD allows you to sin, and this happened for the first time, the torah says to an angel sinning much in the same way as King Tyre, a human ruler sinned as well.
---- You say God cannot divide his own kingdom, but in Eden man had two choices, live under one tree called the kingdom of living, or exist under the other tree that has two kingdoms , one called tov the other called ra. The kingdom of ra is under a ruler not identified until later by the torah.
----
If you are right 'archons always Obey God', why did GOD have to say to the archon do NOT kill Job, but GOD did NOT say do NOT kill Job's children?
Normally prosecutors don't go around organizing humans to kill humans, do they? so your Satan is no prosecutor in court meanings? He is an accuser..
Does this angel oppose GOD? Yes directly negated God's declaration Job was perfect and free from ra.
God tells Job do not kill Job, because Satan would have killed Job.
How much power does Satan have? Lots of freedom, but only within God's limits. Why does God limit Satan in this case? Because Job is saved, and under legally GOD's control. Not just Job, but all his children as legally saved as well, hence nobody was lost in this trial.
IN a court room if the person is legally saved, there is no need for a prosecutor investigating further is there?
But if this is an opposer accusing Job, than an opposer keeps on opposing everybody all the time, including GOD. The opposer is spiteful and a sore loser, and hates losing another human to salvation.
Did God tell Satan to destroy Job's children? No, so who decided to kill Job's children? Satan did all by Himself, He caused the human's on Satan's side to do His work of RA upon Job.
The first of the 7 last plagues of GOD
Re 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. (KJV)
Who does this sore, sounds like a virus far worse than COV19....
It's termed the last plagues of GOD... does GOD do the ra, or does GOD allow Satan to do the RA?
Scripture does not really write WHOM is doing WHOM, very well. Confusing. yes. Hence why we see things differently.
Hab 1:5 ¶ Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you. 6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs.
Jesus rises up antiChrist who brings RA upon the earth? Why? Does this mean Jesus is actually wanting to kill good and bad people through the use of RA?
Satan has the entire world following the image of global Sunday, and one world religion, for many days, the whole world follows the father god power under this one world government.
Jesus raises up the false religion first, so to end it making people decide to follow the true religion of Jesus, climax at the second coming of Jesus.
Unless Jesus raises up opposition, the opposer just makes the humans sleepy in paradise on earth. Jesus wants a real religion for paradise in heaven.
So Satan promote the heaven on earth experience right now, and even one day will appear as Jesus walking on earth as an angel of light, to deceive the very elect.
But the torah says during the Second Coming of Jesus, Jesus never touches the earth.
But the world is deceived once again, by the Opposer opposing Christ and pretending to be Christ on earth.
Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Mar 17, 2021 6:30:14 GMT -5
D" if satan opposes God – why does satan facilitate the unfolding of God’s Word just as God wrote it Because GOD knows all things, whereas Satan doesn't know.
Mat 8:29 And they screamed, “What’s between You and us, Ben-Elohim? Have You come here to torment us, before the appointed time?”
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe—and shudder!
Your satan and all the archon know their fate If they had free will – they would repent Or if they had free will – they would attempt to change their fate Instead – they just keep playing their role within creation – just as all God’s creatures
D" Why doesn’t your satan work against (in opposition to) God to promote peace and health? The end of time should have begun in Roman times, or in 1844, or 1996, or ?? I notice to intentionally left out 1834 the year of Great Disapointment
You do not acknowledge in the beginning where ra originally came from? Sure ra must be created by GOD, but the ra originally came from a sinless creature wanting to be the first creature to sin. You do not see this idea. Sure God created the ra – but the ra came from another source- actually ra came from a sinless source who sinned. You do not see this idea as a bunch of double speak that just denies scripture
--- You say God cannot divide his own kingdom, First – let me make this perfectly clear so you will STOP saying the same error over and over I do not say it – Jesus Christ – God incarnate Himself said it
Mat 12:25 … Yeshua said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is destroyed, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
Yet – your entire doctrine says exactly that – your satan divided God’s kingdom against God You preach that God’s kingdom is destined to fall – it cannot stand Or you preach that Jesus Christ is not to be believed
Your Great Controversy with two gods locked in an eternal conflict is pagan crap that defies the very words of Jesus Christ – God incarnate Himself!
Conclusion – God’s kingdom is NOT divided – because it is God’s and he is absolute Any doctrine that suggest that God is not absolute is vulgar and offensive It diminishes God – puts God on the defense – while elevating your satan to a strong authority elohiym in heaven
but in Eden man had two choices EDEN IS NOT HEAVEN – EDEN = in this WORLD – on EARTH You deny the spiritual – so you cannot tell the difference To you everything is about biology and this world
---- The first of the 7 last plagues of GOD
Re 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. (KJV)
It's termed the last plagues of GOD... does GOD do the ra, or does GOD allow Satan to do the RA? Scripture does not really write WHOM is doing WHOM, very well. Confusing. yes. Hence why we see things differently. Only because you choose not to see Why don’t anyone call this the last plague of satan They call it the last plague of God – but you cannot tell who the passage is speaking about Opps – not a feel Good God here – must deny – must twist and see it differently – choose confusion over recognizing your doctrine is flawed
Hab 1:5 Jesus rises up antiChrist who brings RA upon the earth? Why? Because – it is all God’s Plan – God’s Will and God is the director of all things – because God is absolute
Satan The archon have the entire world following the image of global Sunday, and one world religion, for many days, the whole world follows the father god power under this one world government. 100% World – here in this WORLD in 3D physicality - agree
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 14:27:51 GMT -5
D" Your satan and all the archon know their fate If they had free will – they would repent Or if they had free will – they would attempt to change their fate R" free will has limitations Dave Once your conscience (you talking to the HS) is seared with a hot iron, you no longer hear GOD talking to you and you live on in silence, with SELF. Than you can never repent. Pride will not let you. That is what the war is about... not the usual war you think of....
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
This is the war, Scripture speaks of.... war over words of power...
D" I notice to intentionally left out 1834 the year of Great Disapointment R" I did? Wasn't that 1844?
D" Sure God created the ra – but the ra came from another source- actually ra came from a sinless source who sinned. You do not see this idea as a bunch of double speak that just denies scripture R" OK explain this question? Can GOD normally tolerate RA of any kind? You would say yes. I would say NO.
We differ in our views of an absolute GOD Dave. God is always functional, nothing imperfect is allowed to exist ever, not even chaos, friction or entropy.
D" Yet – your entire doctrine says exactly that – your satan divided God’s kingdom against God You preach that God’s kingdom is destined to fall – it cannot stand Or you preach that Jesus Christ is not to be believed
Your Great Controversy with two gods locked in an eternal conflict is pagan crap that defies the very words of Jesus Christ
R" It is not a Great Controversy over two gods, Dave, but over words that contain powers.
Joe 3:9 ¶ Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: 10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong. 11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD. 12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. 13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. 14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
It 's a war all right, not about bullets and arrows, but about words.
Faith means support some power with His words.
Ra does not come from God. Only tov comes from GOD. But God knows ra and much as GOD knows Tov. God knows all the good and the bad. Yes.
Perhaps my problem is Dave, I do not understand your view and your world. Only GOD can help you to see, I can only ramble as much as I can to help. Maybe, sorry I am not helping.
D" EDEN IS NOT HEAVEN – EDEN = in this WORLD – on EARTH R" Sorry my friend, but in the new heavens and earth, GOD lives in the city surrounding Eden.
SO the throne becomes the Eden in the new earth creation.
Re 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Indeed Eden was so special GOD took it back before the Flood, and has built an entire city around the garden, just as the 5 cities of Sodom once tried to do, the Dead Sea depression give you an idea of how big the Eden garden was. And not no temple in Eden, because no sin ever happens again.
D" Why don’t anyone call this the last plague of satan They call it the last plague of God – but you cannot tell who the passage is speaking about R" You raise a difficult question. I don't know.
If I went to your view, God does one last RA spree on killing humans....
D" Because – it is all God’s Plan – God’s Will and God is the director of all things – because God is absolute
Satan The archon have the entire world following the image of global Sunday, and one world religion, for many days, the whole world follows the father god power under this one world government. 100% World – here in this WORLD in 3D physicality - agree
R" We agree ! Only a name change. And you say the archons do not oppose GOD? What's this than? Doing what GOD asked them to do?
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Mar 17, 2021 15:56:45 GMT -5
R" free will has limitations Dave WOW – some free will you have - Free will that is not free to choose You need to define your terms – instead of just saying things
D" Sure God created the ra – but the ra came from another source- actually ra came from a sinless source who sinned. You do not see this idea as a bunch of double speak that just denies scripture R" OK explain this question? Can GOD normally tolerate RA of any kind? You would say yes. I would say NO. Correction – I would say the ra is cast off into physical creation No ra near God in the heavens – agree – ra is a by-product / a consequence of physical creation
We differ in our views of an absolute GOD Dave. God is always functional, nothing imperfect is allowed to exist ever, not even chaos, friction or entropy. So your God does not allow this world we live in to exist? Is that an absolute Feel Good God statement?
D" Yet – your entire doctrine says exactly that – your satan divided God’s kingdom against God You preach that God’s kingdom is destined to fall – it cannot stand Or you preach that Jesus Christ is not to be believed
Your Great Controversy with two gods locked in an eternal conflict is pagan crap that defies the very words of Jesus Christ R" It is not a Great Controversy over two gods, Dave, but over words that contain powers. So an beloved angel of the Lord didn’t cherub chata in the face of God and become God’s personal oppose? And then this cherub chata angel didn’t also convince 1/3rd of God’s other beloved angels to also rise up in opposition to God and His kingdom This has absolutely been your argument – your satan rose up and divided God’s kingdom against itself
You cannot talk your way out of it – either you believe this or you don’t It seems very fundamental – If you believe it – then I say keep praising your satan as the god of evil – hope it helps you If you don’t believe it then stop preaching it here
D" EDEN IS NOT HEAVEN – EDEN = in this WORLD – on EARTH R" Sorry my friend, but in the new heavens and earth, GOD lives in the city surrounding Eden. The future is not the present or the past
D" Why don’t anyone call this the last plague of satan They call it the last plague of God – but you cannot tell who the passage is speaking about R" You raise a difficult question. I don't know. Because you have your head stuck in the sand of Feel Good doctrine and you cannot see or you do see - because it is blatently obvious - you just choose not to acknowledge it because it counters your pre-held doctrine
If I went to your view, God does one last RA spree on killing humans.... Or – if you were a Christian – you might call this righteous judgment D" Because – it is all God’s Plan – God’s Will and God is the director of all things – because God is absolute
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2021 14:05:51 GMT -5
D" WOW – some free will you have - Free will that is not free to choose You need to define your terms – instead of just saying thingsR" Don't you read my context well? free will has limitations Dave ( than I explain myself here on ........ Once your conscience (you talking to the HS) is seared with a hot iron, you no longer hear GOD talking to you and you live on in silence, with SELF. Than you can never repent. Pride will not let you. That is what the war is about... not the usual war you think of.... Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. This is the war, Scripture speaks of.... war over words of power.. ) Have you never heard of the unpardonable sin condition?D" No ra near God in the heavens – agree – ra is a by-product / a consequence of physical creationR" What you are saying GOD is NOT smart enough to make a Creation without RA as a byproduct? Why our universal constant is 120 decimal places of accuracy... come on Dave, why is the universal constant accurate to 120 decimal places? Why so finely tuned? Obviously GOD can create anything He wants, even a perfect utopian world. D" So your God does not allow this world we live in to exist?R" NO, not normally, we live in a fallen sinful world simply on God's grace, for a reason, to deal with a BIG SIN problem. Here is what GOD is like for sinners, for RA and for anything less than perfect: Ps 147:5 Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite. 2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:Ex 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. 1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. So how does this abnormal world exist? Via a medium that's how. Medium can do natural changes to God's power without hurting God and without hurting the RA world in which we live in because of SIN. Mediums also cause virtual images, so the evil we see and perceive may be real to us, but virtual to GOD. Some things cannot be explained. Mystery. But normally Dave a world like ours would not exist, and never will exist a second time. Nahum verse.D" So an beloved angel of the Lord didn’t cherub chata in the face of God and become God’s personal oppose? And then this cherub chata angel didn’t also convince 1/3rd of God’s other beloved angels to also rise up in opposition to God and His kingdom This has absolutely been your argument – your satan rose up and divided God’s kingdom against itselfIf GOD designed for free will to sin, than God designed for a RA world in order to show others the affects of SIN. Why do you call this GOD dividing His own kingdom ? God planned for rebellion and made provision for this when it will happen, but GOD did not want it to happen, but planned for it anyway. One day, the SIN came, and so GOD planned for it. How is this dividing God's kingdom? Sure once a sinner sins, the BAAL rises in him and he uses his own words for power. The is called self. Such a creature sinning first becomes a provider or source for sinning. What is so hard to fathom about this? D" If you believe it – then I say keep praising your satan as the god of evil – hope it helps you
R" I do not praise Satan, nor go out of my way to study Him, or have anything to do with Him. You know more about Satan, Archons, shedim and aliens than I do. I choose not to play around with such bad things. Scripture says to fight the good fight of faith. Not study your enemy, as you claim. D" The future is not the present or the pastR" Jeff Benner says the Hebrews see the future from their past, so if Eden lives on in the new earth, and GOD lives in Eden on earth, implies that Eden, and dealing with the sin problem is a BIG DEAL to GOD. D" or you do see - because it is blatantly obvious - you just choose not to acknowledge it because it counters your pre-held doctrineR" not as easy as you imply Dave. At least I am honest and admit my limitations. 1Ch 21:1 ¶ And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. 2Sa 24:1 ¶ And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. Here is a conflict in the torah? How do we resolve it? You say both Satan and YHWH are on the same side, so both got involved? I say no. What is happening here is the Controversy of SIN is on stage, and GOD controls all things on stage, including the masters who rule over us. If you choose not to support GOD, GOD allows His Opponent to rule over you instead. This is what I see here. There are many such conflicting verses like this. 1Sa 16:14 ¶ But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. {troubled: or, terrified} Saul no longer loved GOD, so GOD allowed another medium to affect him, this medium has to be engineered by GOD in order for it to exist? Thus GOD administrates both tov and ra, but is not the source of doing of the ra, a Satanic agency is. Ac 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? 16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. Here is the same phrase "ra medium" and the context suggests these entities talk, and have powers? What are these "ra medium entities"? Ac 23:9 And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God. Here is a clue, the spirit or ra spirit is termed also as an angel. And you use this verse: 1Ki 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. 22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. You suggest GOD sends the ra-angels as a lying medium, so this makes opposing angels doing GOD's will? Hmm? I note from these OT verses that RA is never identified, as except administrated by the LORD. De 4:25 When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt [yourselves], and make a graven image, [or] the likeness of any [thing], and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke "God" to anger: Jg 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech: 1Sa 16:23 And it came to pass, when the [evil] spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him. 1Sa 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and [there was] a javelin in Saul's hand. 1Ki 17:20 And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son? 1Ch 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite. {Ornan: also called, Araunah} Ne 13:18 Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath. Job 1:1 ¶ There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. Ec 8:12 Though a sinner do evil an hundred times, and his [days] be prolonged, yet surely I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him: Jer 19:15 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words. Eze 7:5 Thus saith the Lord GOD; An evil, an only evil, behold, is come. Da 9:13 As [it is] written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth. {made...: Heb. intreated we not the face of the, etc} Da 9:14 Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God [is] righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.
Am 5:14 Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Jas 1:13 ¶ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: {evil: or, evils} So where does RA come from? Ec 8:12 Though a sinner do evil an hundred times From the chata the person does, ie SIN. But how can this be when it says GOD sent an evil spirit unto us, if the RA is a fruit of sin, surely GOD does not send sins upon us? And surely GOD does not sin? Break His own royal laws? G2556. kakov kakos, kak-os' Search for 2556 in KJV seems to be a word for Hebrew RA Ro 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: THis verse has the term archon in it, but is not referring to angel archons, but magistrate powers on earth. SO where does RA come from? From the directions sinners do while sinning.Ec 8:12 Ro 13:10 Love worketh no "RA" to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. So if GOD is love, GOD does no RA, or SIN. 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. The first entity written as sinning is the devil, who sinned from the beginning. G1228. diabolov diabolos, Mt 4:1 ¶ Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Notice Jesus is tempted by the devil. Mt 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I (the Devil) give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me (the Devil). And Jesus answer to this Devil was ?Mt 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him(the Devil) , Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. 11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him. Why does Jesus term the Devil, "Satan", a Hebrew word meaning to "oppose"? Because the DEVIL opposes Jesus. Any creature that wants worship to themselves rather than GOD, is opposing God. Does the devil do RA? Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. There are two sins listed here of the Devil, lying and murder, both from royal law. 1Pe 5:8 ¶ Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Why is the devil, who sins, made a simile of a roaring lion? Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. SO the Devil was around in OT times over the body of Moses. Re 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. The Devil casts saints into prison. The Devil here is sinning/ Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. This verse identify s the Devil as an opponent who deceives the whole world, with angels. SO the Devil has angels.... but does this Devil only oppose man, but not oppose God? Well if Jesus comes to destroy the works of the Devil, this suggests to me Jesus opposes the Devil because the Devil opposes Jesus. G2564. kalew kaleo, kal-eh'-o That old serpent is CALLED the DEVIL and OPPOSER. The Greek word G2564, calls this serpent with two more labels, a Devil and an opposer of GOD. In fact the entire book of JOB tells us where RA comes from, not from GOD but from this opposer, who opposes man seeking salvation. But does this opposer also oppose GOD directly? Are there any hints the DEVIL has challenged the Most High and put the Most High on trial for being unjust? Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. This passage is quite the proud claim to challenge the Most High and be better than the Most High. Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. The angel sinned, and was cast to the ground before kings. Who are these kings? No humans, because this happened a long time before humans ever existed. These kings must be the princes of other unfallen worlds, who see sin for the first time, and watch sin happening. How does GOD react to the SIN problem, never seen before? Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. The conflict is limited to earth, in fact earth is chosen as the centre stage of a new universe where these kings can see SIN played out and how GOD deals with SIN. The angels that SIN are banished to earth. Now GOD creates a new creation around the earth in darkness for to make a new creation of creatures that has never seen SIN before, unlike the KINGS who saw SIN occur. Now the humans who have never seen SIN before can witness to the rest of the KINGS what this sinning is about and how to deal with it. Things go well for 33 years, but the Sinning Angel tricks Eve first to sin, and later Adam joins her. And so the SIN problem also falls unto man. God solves the SIN problem for MAN, who never seen SIN before, but falls into SINNING but choosing to DIE for SIN, and thus save man FROM sinning angels, who caused them to SIN. Yes the humans chose to sin themselves, yes, but the sinning angels also took part in the temptation and fall of mankind. Sadly Dave, you say humans sinned first. Not so. I agree the Great Controversy is not clearly or well documented, so you choose to ignore the few verses on the theme. Your choice. Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Mar 19, 2021 4:11:04 GMT -5
free will has limitations Dave (than I explain myself here on ........ Once your conscience (you talking to the HS) is seared with a hot iron, you no longer hear GOD talking to you and you live on in silence, with SELF. Than you can never repent. Pride will not let you.1- Free Will = the choice to choose God or WORLDFree Will = the choice to accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah Free Will = the choice to accept that God came to earth as a man to open the path to salvation to all Free Will = the choice to accept that Christ = God incarnate 2- Than you can never repent. Pride will not let youWhat a bunch of Bull ShitThis is why your pride (self) must be proven in error This is why man has to hit bottom sometimes before he awakens to the truth The Exegesis on the Soul - The Nag Hammadi LibraryFor the beginning of salvation is repentance. Therefore (cf. Acts 13:24), "Before Christ`s appearance came John, preaching the baptism of repentance." And repentance takes place in distress and grief. But the father is good and loves humanity, and he hears the soul that calls upon him and sends it the light of salvation. Therefore he said through the spirit to the prophet (cf. 1 Cl 8:3), "Say to the children of my people, 'If your sins extend from earth to heaven, and if they become red like scarlet and blacker than sackcloth, and if you return to me with all your soul and say to me 'my Father!', I will heed you as a holy people.'" Again another place (Is 30:15), "Thus says the lord, the holy one of Israel: "If you return and sigh, then you will be saved and will know where you were when you trusted in what is empty." Again he said in another place (Is 30:19-20), "Jerusalem wept much, saying, 'Have pity on me.' He will have pity on the sound of your weeping. And when he saw, he heeded you. And the lord will give you bread of affliction and water of oppression. From now on, those who deceive will not approach you again. Your eyes will see those who are deceiving you." Therefore it is fitting to pray to God night and day, spreading out our hands towards him as do people sailing in the middle of the sea: they pray to God with all their heart without hypocrisy. For those who pray hypocritically deceive only themselves. This is a Nag Hammadi commentary from the First Christiansaccording to you it must be error and worthless Questeion - does that also make the scripture it quotes also error? That is what the war is about... not the usual war you think of....It is the Contest of Gen 3:15 playing out between man vrs man / and man vrs WORLD / and man vrs Archon - Man’s own yester ra – takes care of SELFISHNESS all by itself Man’s own yester ra + the alpha syndrome = SELF at the expense of others WORLD supplies hunger /cold /disease / toxins And the Archon are there to make it all seem attractive to SELF so that man seeks WORLD not God and at times – God can test us – send us a test – give us a testBut God never test us directly – he has a staff for that There is an angel in service to the lord to act as the satan / accuser /prosecutor Sometimes – angels (from the right or left) volunteer to be a deceiving spirit – in service to the Lord Sometime – God uses the evil spirits (archon) to tempt and test And from the Coptic Book of Jubilees – we are told even satan can use the archon as tools This is the war, Scripture speaks of.... war over words of power.. )WHAT – you told me that this is a war with soldiers, guns, bombs, tanks and it is proof that your satan hates God Have you never heard of the unpardonable sin condition?The Gospel of Thomas - The Nag Hammadi Library(44) Jesus said, "Whoever blasphemes against the father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven either on earth or in heaven." (wiki) The unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy includes ridicule and attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to the devil. (wiki) Blasphemy is an insult that shows contempt, disrespect, or lack of reverence concerning a deity, a sacred object, or something considered inviolable. Some religions consider blasphemy to be a religious crime. Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. D" No ra near God in the heavens – agree – ra is a by-product / a consequence of physical creation R" What you are saying GOD is NOT smart enough to make a Creation without RA as a byproduct? Why our universal constant is 120 decimal places of accuracy... come on Dave, why is the universal constant accurate to 120 decimal places? Why so finely tuned? Obviously GOD can create anything He wants, even a perfect utopian world. I see – God can do anything – except create the reality we find ourselves So – can your God do anything – or not? Agree - This universe is finely tuned to support the cycle of nature – stars are born – burn out and die – and are reborn anew Agree - This universe is finely tuned to support the cycle of nature – plants and animals are born – live – die – to create new life Agree – this universe is designed in a delicate balance between tov and ra – neg-entropy and entropy Agree – as man studies this amazing balance – Intelligent Design is the only conclusion D" So your God does not allow this world we live in to exist?R" NO, So – can your God do anything – or not?not normally, we live in a fallen sinful world simply on God's grace, for a reason, to deal with a BIG SIN problem.So your satan recreated our universe away from God’s plan But you claim not to empower your satan or give him any praise - curiousR" I do not praise Satan, nor go out of my way to study Him, or have anything to do with Him.D" So an beloved angel of the Lord didn’t cherub chata in the face of God and become God’s personal opposer? And then this cherub chata angel didn’t also convince 1/3rd of God’s other beloved angels to also rise up in opposition to God and His kingdom This has absolutely been your argument – your satan rose up and divided God’s kingdom against itself If GOD designed for free will to sin, than God designed for a RA world in order to show others the affects of SIN. Why do you call this GOD dividing His own kingdom ? God planned for rebellion and made provision for this when it will happen, but GOD did not want it to happen, but planned for it anyway. One day, the SIN came, and so GOD planned for it.Please answer the question – did a beloved angel of the Lord – turn against God – caused a war in heaven and 1/3rd of all God’s beloved angels choose to fight alongside your cherub chataHow is this dividing God's kingdom?Australia becomes a nation – it creates for itself an army with generals Then one of those generals – takes 1/3rd of all the troops and declares war against Australia A military coop – and now Australia is trapped in an endless civil war and battels rage every day How is this dividing God's kingdom? - DUHYou know more about Satan, Archons, shedim and aliens than I do. I choose not to play around with such bad things. Scripture says to fight the good fight of faith. Not study your enemy, as you claim.Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you are able to stand against the schemes of the devil. Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist when the times are evil, and after you have done everything, to stand firm. Eph 6:14 Stand firm then! Buckle the belt of truth around your waist, I choose not to … Not study the enemyYour choice – mankind is entering the last days – when the Nephilim return – when they are released in Rev 9 – as in the days of Noah, so shall it be You can choose to be unprepared for the fight ahead – your choice Paul says – Scripture says – wake up – know your enemy - Scripture says to fight the good fight of faith D" or you do see - because it is blatantly obvious - you just choose not to acknowledge it because it counters your pre-held doctrine R" not as easy as you imply Dave. At least I am honest and admit my limitations. 1Ch 21:1 ¶ And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. 2Sa 24:1 ¶ And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. Here is a conflict in the torah? How do we resolve it? You say both Satan and YHWH are on the same side, so both got involved?Either God is the satan – or satan works for God – not complicated – not hard – not a mysteryI say no. What is happening here is the Controversy of SIN is on stage,You say – no your doctrine tells a different story than scripture There are many such conflicting verses like this.Only conflicting for you and the Feel Good CatholicsSo where does RA come from? From the chata the person does, ie SIN.OK chata is the choice to disobey God - and disobeying God is a sin AGREED But this statement has nothing to do with lightning strikes / forest fires / volcanoes / or earthquakes But how can this be when it says GOD sent an evil spirit unto us, if the RA is a fruit of sin, surely GOD does not send sins upon us? And surely GOD does not sin? Break His own royal laws?Please define your terms – you just keep talking in circlesChata = the choice to disobey God The ability to chata = the gift of Free Will If God sent sin onto man – it would be negating man’s Free Will You keep saying – God is a sinner How can God not choose God? – How can God disobey Himself?G2556. kakov kakos, kak-os' Search for 2556 in KJV seems to be a word for Hebrew RARo 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: On the one hand you are correct On the other hand you trap yourself – if you consider your statement an absoluteKaka – is used in Englans to mean ‘shit’ or something bad Kaka – is an American slang for ‘shit’ – or something bad Kaka – is a Japanese word meaning ‘shit’ or something bad Kaka – is a Filipino word meaning ‘shit’ or something bad G2556 κακός - Apparently a primary word; worthless, that is, (subjectively) depraved, or (objectively) injurious: - bad, evil, harm, ill, noisome, wicked. Isa 45:7 ἐγὼ ὁ κατασκευάσας φῶς καὶ ποιήσας σκότος, ὁ ποιῶν εἰρήνην καὶ κτίζων κακά· ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεὸς ὁ ποιῶν ταῦτα πάντα. However - G2556 – is found 51 times in 46 verses of the agl only Gen 2:9 …the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. G4190 Gen 2:17 But of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil G4190 Gen 3:5 …and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” G4190 1Ki 14:22 Judah did what was evil G4190 G4190 – πονηρός - From a derivative of G4192; hurtful, that is, evil (properly in effect or influence, and thus differing from G2556, G4190 is found 293 times in 282 verses of the ahlJob 21:30 that the wicked G684 Isa 47:11 Therefore shall evil G684 Job 11:20 But the eyes of the wicked G684 Pro 15:11 Hell and destruction G684 G684 - ἀπώλεια - From a presumed derivative of G622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste. 2556 in KJV seems to be a word for Hebrew RA – one of several Greek words translated into English as ra Ro 13:10 Love worketh no "RA" to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Agree – if you are busy seeking the lord in spirit – your yester ra is shelved Could not agree moreSo if GOD is love, Of course God is Love – John 3:16GOD does no RA,Correct – he has a staff for thatGod does not SIN.Sin = the choice to disobey God – How can God disobey Himself?1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. The first entity written as sinning is the devil, who sinned from the beginning. G1228. diabolov diabolos, OK – identity of the DevilI have never said anything more than – the devil is one of the Generals of the Beast assigned to man – this WORLD You – posted Jewish Encyclopedia information (kabbalah) suggesting that the Devil was Azazael – the leader of the bane elohiym archon – that fathered the Nephilim All I said was – I would not disagree with you – because the leader of the bane elohiym archon was the strongest archon authority in this WORLD Yes the Devil is of WORLD = physical creation He that committeth sin – is choosing yester ra over yester tov – is choosing WORLD instead of God Mt 4:1 - Mt 4:9 And Jesus answer to this Devil was ? Mt 4:10 Why does Jesus term the Devil, "Satan", a Hebrew word meaning to "oppose"? Because the DEVIL opposes Jesus.YES the Devil of this WORLD opposed Jesus the Son of Man (animal) Because Jesus – the Son of Man is animal – is World – and the archon have full authority over WORLD Any creature that wants worship to themselves rather than GOD, is opposing God.YES - Any creature that worships self rather than GOD, is choosing yester ra over yester tov – choosing WORLD instead of GodDoes the devil do RA?Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. YES! – Agree – the archon of this WORLD – are sick ugly self-centered – creatures of some matterWhy is the devil, who sins, made a simile of a roaring lion?DUHMat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. SO the Devil was around in OT times over the body of Moses.DUH – the archon have been in the WORLD since Gen 1:2 or Rev 12:3Re 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. The Devil casts saints into prison. The Devil here is sinningOr – all these people failed to die in Christ And the PROSECUTOR will not allow these people into heaven – instead they are held in PROPORTIONAL PUNISHMENT to await the First Resurrection
Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. This verse identify s the Devil as an opponent who deceives the whole world, with angels.Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Correct the First Archon and his (offspring) seven Generals within the 10 dimensionsSO the Devil has angels.... Correct the First Archon and his (offspring) seven Generals within the 10 dimensions They all came with the great red dragon that caused the choshek of Gen 1:2but does this Devil only oppose man, but not oppose God?The Devil is in the WORLD – this is his domain – this is his kingdom I live on a mountain in the middle of my continent Great white sharks are the King of their domain - they are the king of their kingdom How does it affect me in any way? God is the absolute master of the entire multiverse – 10 dimensions of heavens The Devil is in the WORLD – this is his domain – this is his kingdom Man is in the archon’s kingdom – we are in their WORLD Gen 3:15 is between man and archon-NOT archon vrs God Well if Jesus comes to destroy the works of the Devil, this suggests to me Jesus opposes the Devil because the Devil opposes Jesus.Jesus died upon the cross to PROVE that He was the Christ – so that man had an opening to the Divine PardonIn the ahl – some men impressed God enough to be granted a Divine Pardon – Enoch, Elijah From the transfiguration of Christ – we know Moses is there as well From Rev 20:4 we know many are there around the throne of God – before the First resurrection It was a select few – many are called but few are chosen Christ came to offer that Divine pardon to all who believe – what a gift Beliefs in little green men – or Allah – or Zoroaster – are error Paul – Eph 6 – tells us TRUTH matters – because it helps us see the enemy for who and what they are G2564. kalew kaleo, kal-eh'-o That old serpent is CALLED the DEVIL and OPPOSER. The Greek word G2564, calls this serpent with two more labels, a Devil and an opposer of GOD.Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, Great Dragon = noun / serpent = noun / Devil = noun / and satan the verb Even Peter was a satan In fact the entire book of JOB tells us where RA comes from, not from GOD but from this opposer, who opposes man seeking salvation.STOP IT – we have been all over this – just because you keep repeating your doctrine does not change the scripture no matter how many time to repeat it So the opponent is only an opponent to Job, in Job's story? Fair enough So where would you go looking to see if "opponent" actually "opposes" GOD? Line upon line, here and there, remember, how to read Scripture? And your answer is Are there any hints the DEVIL has challenged the Most High and put the Most High on trial for being unjust? – Isa 14 - Eze 28 Are passages all about manIs there a war between God and satan – or is it just words as you suggest today? That is what the war is about... not the usual war you think of....Pick which belief you hold and stick with it The conflict is limited to earth, in fact earth is chosen as the centre stage of a new universe where these kings can see SIN played out and how GOD deals with SIN. NO KIDDINING – what a Gnostic conceptThe angels that SIN are banished to earth.The archon that were on earth already – sinned against man and nature in Gen 6Please tell me what Royal Law is broken in Rev 12:3 Before 12:5 – the Light of the World Precept upon precept – theme upon themeGen 1:1 – heavens (invisible) and earth (visible) Gen 1:2 – choshek Gen 1:3 - And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:1 …the Word was with God – the Spirit went out from God forming the matrix / ether / medium Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Gen 1:2 … And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep…. Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Gen 1:2 … and darkness was upon the face of the deep… Gen 1:3 - And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, - Christ Gen chapter 1 – man is created Gen chapter 2 – the law is given Gen chapter 3 – the law is broken – and the promise of salvation is introduced into the WORLD Gen 3:15 satan’s seed vrs Eve’s seed = the Contest for man here in this physical kingdom of the archon Gen 3:15 satan’s seed vrs the seed of Eve (Jesus Christ) = the promise of salvation God’s Will = God’s Plan – no other created being large or small altered God’s Plan for creation There is no war in heaven between two diametrically opposed gods There is no such thing as the god of evil – or a satan with horns and a pointy red tail There is no such thing as anyone falling from the grace of God The entire Catholic invention of Fallen angels is a Catholic Myth In all this time – I still await your proof verse I agree the Great Controversy is not clearly or well documented, so you choose to ignore the few verses on the theme. Your choice.Correct – my choice and I choose to take scripture as a whole – two words – or two verses – do not outweigh the totality of scripture
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2021 16:52:34 GMT -5
Shalom Shabbat Dave 1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; (KJV) If the conscience is seared so the communication medium blocked, a sinner no longer hears the still small voice of GOD, so the condition is unpardonable. D" Agree – this universe is designed in a delicate balance between tov and ra – neg-entropy and entropyRA Dave there is no delicate balance, RA comes from SIN Ec 8:12 Though a sinner do evil an hundred times, The Hebrew here is "chata ra " and you pick on my grammar, well explain the VERB used as a NOUN here. D" So your satan recreated our universe away from God’s planR" NO Dave, Satan did not do anything except SIN. The affect of SIN, ie RA, came about from GOD designing the RA, so SIN could be observable. Where does RAIN drops, SNOW, volcanoes, darkness and extreme cold come from? From GOD, designing it and allowing this curse from sin, yes, but even in sin, even in the curse, GOD did not abandon us, there Rain, the snow and so on are still beautiful. God did not abandon us to RA, nor is RA random mutational affects of disorder. The RA is controlled and engineered by GOD, so the SIN can be observed and carefully limited by GOD. If a sinner wants to live for years in a sinful world, how is even possible Dave? You explain this to me? Obviously GOD has to design provisions for RA, so the Sinner can live in his RA, and still live in it without dying too quickly. And all this is made possible by GOD. Normally lets say when GOD deals with sin and all is perfect again, no ra, etc, just perfect utpoia, some saint decides to sin just a little once for old times sake.... what would happen? Would GOD allow the sinner to live in the ra world of olden days, so the sin is made observable once again, a second time? NO. The sinner would instantly cease to exist. So while angels who sin and humans who sin, continue for a while, nothing is beyond GOD's plan of designing freewill to have a choice. SO the choice is showed to all unfallen worlds, so they can see the full choice in all it's glory, upheld by GOD. D" Please answer the question – did a beloved angel of the Lord – turn against God – caused a war in heaven and 1/3rd of all God’s beloved angels choose to fight alongside your cherub chataR" Yes. Any loved person has free will choice not to love.... D" How is this dividing God's kingdom? Australia becomes a nation – it creates for itself an army with generals Then one of those generals – takes 1/3rd of all the troops and declares war against Australia A military coop – and now Australia is trapped in an endless civil war and battels rage every day How is this dividing God's kingdom? - DUH
R" So creating free will is false Dave, we cannot have free will, because designing for free will, causes the dividing of our kingdom? If the PM of Australia designs for free will, and some generals decide to not follow the PM but there own desires, than the PM banishes the army of generals to a state of Australia to do as they please. The free will is still runing OK. The rebellious generals and their armies are running OK as they please in a part of Australia, and the rest of Australia is still running under the PM, so explain to me where is this divided AUstralia you speak of? The PM will spend years trying to convince the rebels to come back to Australia. But the free will must not be violated. Only after a long time of dealing with these rebels in a loving and kind way, does the PM decide to remove the rebels from their choice to disobey, only after the rest of Australia votes to remove them. Technically speaking Dave, sin is a dividing of the mind, from the Greek word "worry", which us a dividing of the mind, the mind does not stay with GOD, so fear is the mind losing it's grip on GOD. You you're saying SIN causes a dividing of GOD's kingdom? SIN causes a separation of good people from bad people, but cannot divide the good people. D" Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God,R" Yes fight the good fight of amanuah. DO we know what amanuah really means? D" Paul says – Scripture says – wake up – know your enemy - Scripture says to fight the good fight of faithR" Funny how you say these things, and we have not studied amanuah together? D" How can God not choose God? – How can God disobey Himself?R" You are hitting a nail here. In your view, God is just solitary, so you are right, GOD cannot disobey Himself. So explain how silly the Gnostic writings are, stupid even, that the expression created without considering the usual consort Yalaboath who immediately thought of Self. How can you have consort with a solitary being? In fact you happily make this solitary Being have expressions such as the Son and the HS? What is an expression? You explain that E=MC2 but this only descibes the relationship of matter to energy, and cannot describe the relationship of energy. Einstein died never understanding light or energy. Yet you claim energy can exist in two or three expressions? In fact you make it so complicated, how come Jews do not call two or three expressions, 2 or 3 gods? What's the difference? However if elohiym is a Family, than elohiym is relational, and elohiym can love the members of elohiym. Free will exists within elohiym too, and all the members perfectly love each other. Than the royal law reflects this family model of elohiym, after all Creation is made in the image of elohiym. But NOT your model, hence why you disagree. But you have serious conflicting ideas in your model. "consort" is one, "two or three expressions" is another. If the Father on earth prays to the Father in heaven? How does this make sense to an ordinary person? Why does Jesus say the Father and Himself are one. if they are already one, according to you? I would suggest we study the word echad, and study the word yaccid. D" Kaka – is a Filipino word meaning ‘shit’ or something badR" Great so why do you have GOD playing around with kaka in natural design? G rk#:4190 / pon-ay-ros (adj): Evil Freq:&76 Heb#:7451 רע / ra (noun): Dysfunctional—Impaired or abnormal action other than that for which a person or thing is intended. Something that does not function within its intended purpose. Heb#:7563 רשע / re-sha (noun): Lost— Departed from the correct path or way, either out of ignorance or revolt. Grk#:2556 / kak-os (adj): Evil Freq:&51 Heb#:7451 רע / ra (noun): Dysfunctional—Impaired or abnormal action other than that for which a person or thing is intended. Something that does not function within its intended purpose. Heb#:7563 רשע / re-sha (noun): Lost— Departed from the correct path or way, either out of ignorance or revolt.
Now we have a problem, Jeff Benner doesn't know: Nice replies Dave D" GOD does no RA, Correct – he has a staff for thatR" if GOD is solitary, than yes, God cannot sin, God cannot do RA, so angels have do RA and therefore sin for GOD. D" YES the Devil of this WORLD opposed Jesus the Son of Man (animal) Because Jesus – the Son of Man is animal – is World – and the archon have full authority over WORLDR" OK, but Devil never directly opposes Jesus as GOD, only the Jesus as the Son of MAN. OK I thought the Devil has full authority of the mind, that chooses free will. Why do you introduce biology which only houses the mind machinery to make choice? You say Devil did not make a RA choice for Jesus to make this RA choice? Worship me, was this a RA choice or not? Command this stone to be bread. Is this not a RA choice, using Self to please appetite? If GOD is solitary, than GOD cannot sin, nothing to disobey. So why does GOD choose to place a worldly body over itself , cannot change the nature of GOD or the ability of GOD to sin, because a solitary GOD cannot sin. But if GOD is relational, than GOD can sin, and disobey. But you do not get this idea. The Devil was getting a divine member of elohiym to do something apart from the consort of the Father, and this would be indeed a SIN, but Jesus refused. But funny your Gnostic writings say one member of GOD created without the usual consort and this is OK.... this is a SIN, and written evidence GOD is relational. Jews would call this writing evidence of polytheism. D" Jesus died upon the cross to PROVE that He was the Christ – so that man had an opening to the Divine PardonR" What a lame reason. Why not post a royal law decree why Jesus died ? Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, There is your answer right here from the royal law, application from "no murder". D" Please tell me what Royal Law is broken in Rev 12:3
Re 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. R" Easy, just before mischief is done to the HS's compassion-centre Ex 21:22 ¶ If men "iysh" strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, 56 verses using iysh in Ezekiel, all referring to angels. Ex 21:22 If "angelic power" strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, D" Correct – my choice and I choose to take scripture as a whole – two words – or two verses – do not outweigh the totality of scriptureR" My messanic friend John said the same, Gordon says the same. Most people ignore the few verses of torah they don't like. Now Dave says the same. Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. (KJV) This verse Paul speaks tells us the darkness opposes light, the power of darkness comes from the power of Satan, thus the power of light comes from the power of GOD, and this free will choice to choose comes from the way we are made holy by our faith. This one verse explains the Great Controversy Dave, but you ignore this verse. Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Mar 21, 2021 5:27:21 GMT -5
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; (KJV) If the conscience is seared so the communication medium blocked, a sinner no longer hears the still small voice of GOD, so the condition is unpardonable. Ha ha ha giggle giggle1Ti 4:1 Now the Ruach clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, following deceitful spirits and teachings of demons Which one of us preaches satan as a strong authority in heaven opposing God? Which one of us think is a requirement for salvation that you believe in satan as a the god of evil?D"Agree – this universe is designed in a delicate balance between tov and ra – neg-entropy and entropy RA Dave there is no delicate balance, Please take a biology class – or a class in Physics- or a class in ecology Australians are not taught basic science? Dave there is no delicate balance, How is Australia’s experiment with cane toad population working out Mice were brought to Australian in 1788 – how is that experiment working out You talk about the universe being finely tuned – but deny balanceTo that I say – go back to high school I do not believe what you say has any basis in reality – keep living your fantasy Ec 8:12 Though a sinner do evil an hundred times, The Hebrew here is "chata ra " and you pick on my grammar, well explain the VERB used as a NOUN here.Ecc 8:12 Even though a sinner might commit a hundred crimes and prolong his days, yet I know that it will be well for those who fear God, for those who revere Him. H834 –אֲשֶׁר - A primitive relative pronoun H2398 – חָטָא - châṭâ' - A primitive root; properly to miss; (verb – used as a noun = a gerund) H6213 – עָשָׂה - A primitive root; to do or make, (verb) (He who misses) causing ra אֲשֶׁר - h834 (pronoun – he she it) חֹטֶא - h2398 (Though a sinner) עֹשֶׂה - h6213 (do) Grammar 101 – any language gerund – noun GRAMMAR a form that is derived from a verb but that functions as a noun participle – noun GRAMMAR- a word formed from a verb used as an adjective well explain the VERB used as a NOUN here.(The one who is missing) = subject of the phrase Do / make = verb Ra = object of that verb LXX ὃς ἥμαρτεν, ἐποίησεν τὸ πονηρὸνὃς – (pronoun – subject he she it) ἥμαρτεν, - G264 - properly to miss the mark From the Greek I also know - this verbal form = Tense: Aorist aorist - a verb tense in some languages (classical Greek and Sanskrit) expressing action (especially past action) without indicating its completion or it is still in continuation. Voice: Active – doing it right now Mood: Indicative – no doubt – for sure ἐποίησεν - G4160 - to make or do From the Greek I also know - this verbal form = Tense: Aorist aorist - a verb tense in some languages (classical Greek and Sanskrit) expressing action (especially past action) without indicating its completion or it is still in continuation. Voice: Active – doing it right now Mood: Indicative – no doubt – for sure τὸ πονηρὸν - G4190 - hurtful, that is, evil well explain the VERB used as a NOUN here.the one who continually misses doing evil It is just basic language skills – you really need to learn to translateD"So your satan recreated our universe away from God’s plan R" NO Dave, Satan did not do anything except SIN. The affect of SIN, ie RA, came about from GOD designing the RA, so SIN could be observable.So sin is a creator – every plant and animal on the planet had its DNA changed by sin Sin is the recreator Is sin also a god for you - it does things all by itself Is sin another angel – or another god that can create – you don’t specifiy If a sinner wants to live for years in a sinful world, how is even possible Dave?So all reality all around you is impossible – and you want me to accept this?You explain this to me? Obviously GOD has to design provisions for RAAbsolutely – tov and ra in a balance called nature – it is call creation - D" Please answer the question – did a beloved angel of the Lord – turn against God – caused a war in heaven and 1/3rd of all God’s beloved angels choose to fight alongside your cherub chata R" Yes. - Any loved person has free will choice not to love....Double speak – trying to dance around an answer It is any angel named satan or any loved personR" So creating free will is false Dave, we cannot have free will, because designing for free will, causes the dividing of our kingdom?Free will is a gift to man – man is spirit destined for eternal life Free will is a gift to man – and man can choose to not have eternal life YES – sin divides man – from life to death -DUH If the PM of Australia designs for free will, and some generals decide to not follow the PM but there own desires, than the PM banishes the army of generals to a state of Australia to do as they please. The free will is still runing OK. The rebellious generals and their armies are running OK as they please in a part of Australia, and the rest of Australia is still running under the PM, so explain to me where is this divided AUstralia you speak of? You have a war in heaven – it is proof of your Catholic Catechism of Fallen Angels Your war also takes place on earth – where is God safe from your satan oppose I am the one that says – the archon are not at war with God in heaven I am the one saying that the archon are sequestered to creation with manPlease decide which theology you accept today – you say one thing and preach another Please offer a consistent doctrine - D" Paul says – Scripture says – wake up – know your enemy - Scripture says to fight the good fight of faith R" Funny how you say these things, and we have not studied amanuah together?I believe in the spirit – you do not I say amanuah is a spiritual concept - my focus is praying in the spirit - being in the spiritYou say it is a lot of different things you must do every day to maintain your salvation This is just churchism – and man-made doctrinesEcc 8:12 Even though a sinner might commit a hundred crimes and prolong his days, yet I know that it will be well for those who fear God, for those who revere Him. Fear God – revere Him – stop giving satan credit for everythingYour God could not have made the world we live in Your God meant it to be only tov – but then some other FORCE changed all of God good intentions If you say it was satan that changed everyuthing Then you said adam changed everything Now you say sin is the one that changed everything Whatever it was – all of God beautiful creation was ruined by this other strong authority I DO NOT BELIEVE IT FOR ONE MOMENT!D" How can God not choose God? – How can God disobey Himself? R" You are hitting a nail here. In your view, God is just solitary, so you are right, GOD cannot disobey Himself. So explain how silly the Gnostic writings are, stupid even, that the expression created without considering the usual consort Yalaboath who immediately thought of Self.It is of the left hand of God – you use the term when it suits you – then pretend to be confused when it suits you – you even called it Jewish nonsense – and Gnostic crap – but you use the term when it suits youIn fact you make it so complicated, how come Jews do not call two or three expressions, 2 or 3 gods? What's the difference?Sorry Robert - your ignorance of Judaism is showing 2 or 3 gods? What's the difference?You are sick - How can you call yourself a Chrsitian and ask this?There is only One True GodYou will never convince me otherwise Now we have a problem, Jeff Benner doesn't know: Nice replies Dave If you want to compare Hebrew of the era with the Greek of the era 70 of the most respected Rabbi of their time already did this for usD" GOD does no RA, Correct – he has a staff for thatR" if GOD is solitary, than yes, God cannot sin, Correct – God cannot disobey HimselfGod cannot do RA, so angels have do RA God has done a lot of ra – millions if not billions were killed by God and His ra Does God do it directly - yes Does God do it by proxy – Yes Correction D" GOD does not RA, TEMPT directly Correct – he has a staff for thatGod cannot do RA, so angels have do RA and therefore sin for GOD.Why is it a sin to obey God – this has to be your second worst doctrineWhen God told satan to temp Job – you say God told satan to sin When a volunteer spirit stepped forward to be a deceiving spirits for god – you say God asked him to sin When God told Joshua to perform genocide – you say God told Israel to sin When God told Saul to perform genocide – you say God forded Israel to sin When God laid waste to Sodom and Gomorrah – your God sinned Why is it a sin to obey God – this has to be your second worst doctrine1- an angel named satan - rose up against God - opposes God - hates God - is at war with God 2- and it is a sin to obey GodIt this the attitude after being an SDA for how long?D"YES the Devil of this WORLD opposed Jesus the Son of Man (animal) Because Jesus – the Son of Man is animal – is World – and the archon have full authority over WORLD R" OK, but Devil never directly opposes Jesus as GOD, only the Jesus as the Son of MAN. OK I thought the Devil has full authority of the mind, that chooses free will. Why do you introduce biology which only houses the mind machinery to make choice? Because the mind is biology - DUH Change the biology and it changes the mind – DUH Biology has nothing to do with spirit – but you cannot accept that
Joh 3:6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. But you have doctrine to override scriptureYou say Devil did not make a RA choice for Jesus to make this RA choice? Worship me, was this a RA choice or not? Command this stone to be bread. Is this not a RA choice, using Self to please appetite? R" OK, but Devil never directly opposes Jesus as GOD, only the Jesus as the Son of MAN. OK Correct – this proves that Jesus was more than a man – He was the Christ – and Christ is God – and God cannot be tempted – absolutely agreeD" Jesus died upon the cross to PROVE that He was the Christ – so that man had an opening to the Divine PardonR" What a lame reason. Why not post a royal law decree why Jesus died ? Only you think the Divine Pardon is lame – is that also a SDA doctrine? You border upon insulting 1- an angel named satan - rose up against God - opposes God - hates God - is at war with God 2- it is a sin to obey God 3- it is a sin to believe in the spirit 4- you think the Divine Pardon is lame 5- your only goal is the grave 6- 2 or 3 gods? What's the difference?
The more you speak the less Christian you present yourselfD" Correct – my choice and I choose to take scripture as a whole – two words – or two verses – do not outweigh the totality of scripture R" My messanic friend John said the same, Gordon says the same. The difference is that you have failed you provide any scripture other than just two You just repeat Exk 28 over and over – and the war in heaven that is not in heaven and it is not really a war at all - it is all about words If you could present a consistent theology – our conversation could go somewhere As long as you flip and flop like a fish out of water – you just lack credibility The difference is I discount Ezk 28 - in favor of all the rest of scriptureYou bend all of scripture aroubf Ezk 28 - because you have doctrine
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Mar 21, 2021 6:50:05 GMT -5
God 1- There is only One True God – the Creator 2- no man can see the Creator or he will die – but man can experience God in form (Christ) and in Spirit Creator = Christ and Spirit = Trinity
Man 1- is spirit - spiritual 2- created along with the angels in heaven in the Frist Age – before physical creation even took form
Archon 1- The Beast of Revelation 12:3 – The First Archon was created with some matter 2- It came with – had offspring – 7 and 10 3- It/They caused the choshek of Gen 1:2 3.a If you were a Cathar from 12th Century France – this Beast is physical creation – Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Invisible –vrs- visible / incorruptible –vrs- corruptible Invisible and incorruptible spirit –vrs- visible corruptible WORLD 3.b 1945 Nag Hammadi suggest the First Archon was simply the First creature made with some matter It was ugly – and aborted from the spirit realm into the physical realm of matter where it belongs It was ugly – and hidden away in a cloudy of smoke and fire (the elements of matter and creation)
The First Archon = the Beast of Rev 12:3 / 12:7 / Rev 20:10
Creation 1- Is in a finely tuned balance of nature – birth – life – death – and rebirth – the cycle of life 2- The cycle of life applies to stars, galaxies, planets, plants, animals, and animal man of Gen 1 3- There is no such thing as evolution in any form 4- Each and every species was created for a function / a role / a part in the ecosystem of the cycle of life Cows, ants, cockroaches, mice just do what they do
Angels just do what they do – what they were created for Archon just do what they do – what they were created for Man just does what man does – choose – choose invisible incorruptible spirit –or- visible corruptible WORLD
The Contest 1- The son that stays home = spirit man in heaven created long before the WORLD 2- The son that leaves home – enters the world (Gen 2:7 at conception) and souljourns in this WORLD 3- We enter this world on a mission – to witness (Jer 1:5) 4- Man was made in the image of God – Spirit – that came to earth as a man to witness – to die and rise again to new life 5- However – no creature in physical form has ever resisted yester ra (instinctive self) save 2 5.a- no man – all men are sinners – no one righteous – no not one As a result – sin entered the WORLD – through MAN and that curse effects MAN YES man devolved to mortality – to be just like all the other animals – Gen 1 man is an animal But the curse sin brings upon man is the threat of the Second Death – the death of spirit 6- The Prodigal Son is the one who does his mission and returns to God - in Christ - with a Divine Pardon and Reward
You absolutely deny this – because you deny the spirit – all you can see is biology So you have this man made invention doctrine that suggest even the life cycle of a mosquito was changed – plants turns into weeds – and volcanoes were allowed to erupt
To your vegetarian shark idea I SCOFF The life cycle of birth – life – death – and rebirth played out for a millions of years before man Again – you method requires – your doctrine to override 68 different scientific specialties and thousands of years of history
Just like two words of Ezk rewrite all your scripture
Satan Is an angel or any angel or any being – or even a man performing the function of a satan God is sometime the satan God commands the satan God sends the satan on missions God sometimes asked for volunteers to be the satan Sometimes – ever Peter was the satan
Satan – like all the angels – just does what he does – his assigned role in creation
Satan got little to no attention – until Rome – and now he is mandated as a strong authority in heaven Roman Christendom is a satanic cult
And here is the proof – SDA doctrine
1- an angel named satan - rose up against God - opposes God - hates God - is at war with God 2- it is a sin to obey God 3- it is a sin to believe in the spirit 4- the Divine Pardon is lame 5- the only goal is the grave 6- 2 or 3 gods? What's the difference?
The more you speak the less Christian you present yourself
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Mar 22, 2021 11:39:40 GMT -5
A little harsh Dave, but I understand your frustration I told you long ago that Robert is only trying to damage Christianity It seems as if Robert is opposed to each and every basic principle of Christianity
Christian beliefs concerning God There is only one God God is a Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit
The Trinity Christians believe in the Trinity - that is, in God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Some confuse this and think that Christians believe in three separate gods, which they don't. (D there is only one true God) Christians believe that God took human form as Jesus Christ and that God is present today through the work of the Holy Spirit and evident in the actions of believers. (D Jesus Christ was God incarnate)
God the Son God lived on earth as Jesus (D Jesus is God in human form) Jesus was both wholly God and wholly human (D (spirit + animal)) Jesus was born to a human woman, Mary, but conceived of the Holy Spirit (D This was a virgin birth) Because Jesus was wholly human he was subject to pain, suffering, and sorrow like other human beings Jesus was executed by crucifixion but rose from the dead at the Resurrection Jesus's life provides a perfect example of how God wants people to live Jesus died on the Cross so that those who believe in him will be forgiven all their sins
God the Holy Spirit After the Resurrection, Jesus remained on earth for only a few days before going up into Heaven Jesus promised that he would stay with his followers, so after he went to Heaven he sent his Spirit to guide them The Holy Spirit continues to guide, comfort, and encourage Christians
Life after death Christians believe that there is a life after earthly death.
While the actual nature of this life is not known, Christians believe that many spiritual experiences in this life help to give them some idea of what eternal life will be like.
God is perfect God is omnipotent God is everywhere God knows everything God created the universe God keeps the universe going God intervenes in the universe God loves everyone unconditionally Human beings can get to know God through prayer, worship, love, and mystical experiences Human beings can get to know God through God's grace - that is through his love and his power Justification by faith Christians believe in justification by faith - that through their belief in Jesus as the Son of God, and in his death and resurrection, they can have a right relationship with God whose forgiveness was made once and for all through the death of Jesus Christ.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2021 14:45:28 GMT -5
Greetings Dave D"the one who continually misses doing evil It is just basic language skills – you really need to learn to translate
R" Your not wrong. I checked the Hebrew as you presented. Its OK H834 H2398 H6213 G4190
Though he miss doing RA a hundred times.....
Why than does the KJV translators forget to quote the H834 properly and thus the verb chata, does NOT need to be a gerund. I would much prefer a Bible like that above, Hebrew written above as it was written by scribes, say left to right, for convenience, and underneath the English word equalivent .
So this H834, can it also mean "though it" "though she" and "though he" ? My POWERCD bible software lets me down many times, the interlinear is missing H834, and I cannot look up this Hebrew word, or is it a prefix?
"It is just basic language skills – " Why does the KJV get it wrong than? No need to make the Verb chata into a pretend Noun, "he misses".
D" So sin is a creator – every plant and animal on the planet had its DNA changed by sin Sin is the recreator
R" can't you read basic English ? I quote you my words again "The affect of SIN, ie RA, came about from GOD designing the RA, so SIN could be observable."
God is the orginal creator of all things, God put both directions of design into original creation. When Adam sinned, the DNA did not change immediately, the DNA of all things began to experience a missing of GOD's protection, of GOD's power, hence began to experience copy errors for the first time, and since theh DNA is required for copying millisecond by millisecond, the dying die process began immediately upon Adam bringing a curse upon Nature and Himself.
D" Absolutely – tov and ra in a balance called nature – it is call creation - R" Not quite, RA is a the fruit of missing. So was only allowed to come forth after missing happened, so in the beginning tov and ra, never existed, the design was just called the tree of living, remeber the other tree had a a different name you assume existed in the utopian world GOD created for sinless Man. It did not exist until after Adam sinned. RA is a byproduct of SIN, not of GOD creating Creation.
Eccel 8:12 tells you this, as do other verses.
D"Double speak – trying to dance around an answer It is any angel named satan or any loved person R" is my view so hard to know? This angel who sinned, having free will to sin, was the highest commanding angel in all the angels.... any loved person who does missing is by defintion opposing GOD, that is the meaning of "satan" in Hebrew. The word does not mean a "Name" until the prefix, Hey-satan is used, this refers to the single angel once nearest GOD who decided of free will to sin, now is the BEING BEHOLD who continually misses GOD.
D" Please decide which theology you accept today – you say one thing and preach another Please offer a consistent doctrine R" I do offer a consistent view, the Great Contraversy is about dealing with the SIN problem. The first beings to sin were angels. God decided to banish the sinning angels to earth, making earth dark and void and missing GOD. God decided to create a creation around earth placing mankind in it, created just under elohiym, higher than angels or the same as angels?? to replace the fallen angels, to be a witness to SIN, for the other unfallen worlds. Since the sinning angels tricked mankind into sinning also, GOD decides to die for the missing, caused by the angel causing mischief. I am consistent in my view, I feel Dave. It's the only view presented in the torah.
D" I say amanuah is a spiritual concept R" yes amanuah is a spiritual process
D" my focus is praying in the spirit - being in the spirit R" You do not understand the spiritual process...
To be born again, humans enter the compassion centre of the womb, a simile of human women, but there is no Hebrew word for womb for a reason. The HS is the adminsitrator of the living caused in procreation, where GOD and the Ruwach come to design the fetus to become you, when the sperm and egg meet. The process is both biological and spiritual. We term this the first birth. Nicodedmus asked how can man enter the womb a second time?, the same way we entered into the womb of GOD the first time... David explains the second birth experience:
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
This process is creative, literal, just as the animals in Creation were spoken into existence. The right medium within me, refers to a change of character, so we become like GOD, full of love. Since creation was wrought by the HS of GOD when Jesus spoke the words, the words come with power, and this process is called amanuah.
Special words in Scripture come with power, and by supporting those words daily, we experience amanuah, the power of GOD flowing into us, by faith.
D" You say it is a lot of different things you must do every day to maintain your salvation R " yes you must daily do the process of communion with GOD, and these steps are simply the processes of communion with GOD daily, continually.
These steps are explained in the Scoll of Yashua, in the OT.
D"Whatever it was – all of God beautiful creation was ruined by this R" decision to SIN
But GOD did not leave SIN to make a random world full of chaos and darkness, not at all. Despite the SIN, our world is still lovely and nice. GOD designed a world of missing with beauty still in it. Look at the descriptions of GOD to Job,
1) Snow 2) Rain 3) Ligntning and thunder
These are the results of SIN coming from Adam, spoiling our world with it's curse. Yet snow is beautiful and so is thunder and rain, but these things are fruits of ra, we will never experience them again in the world of tov, the uptopian world that is without missing.
D" It is of the left hand of God R" isn't this a word game Dave, the right hand and left hand of GOD belong to one Being, so how can the left hand do something the right hand doesn't know its doing, so leaves it's consort? I know immediately if my right hand hits the thumb of my left hand with a hammer.
If GOD is not a family of loving persons, than only your theory makes sense, but if GOD is solitary the only way love can be expressed is by creation, creatures loving GOD and GOD loving creatures. The torah doesn't say that. It says GOD is love, specifically GOD is maleness-love, the love that provides.
D" There is only One True God R" elohiym is just a single mountain peak is it? Are you sure?
I agree elohiym is a powerful mountain, singular. Yes. But there are two peaks on Mount SInai according to Dr Kim who took photod of it in Jordan where Mt Sinai is. And the mountain of Ararat is also one mountain base with several peaks. From a distance Mt SInai looks like one peak, but as you come closer you see two peaks.
D" God has done a lot of ra – millions if not billions were killed by God and His ra R I am uncomfortable thinking of this statement
D: Why is it a sin to obey God – this has to be your second worst doctrine When God told satan to temp Job – you say God told satan to sin When a volunteer spirit stepped forward to be a deceiving spirits for god – you say God asked him to sin When God told Joshua to perform genocide – you say God told Israel to sin When God told Saul to perform genocide – you say God forded Israel to sin When God laid waste to Sodom and Gomorrah – your God sinned Why is it a sin to obey God – this has to be your second worst doctrine
1- an angel named satan - rose up against God - opposes God - hates God - is at war with God 2- and it is a sin to obey God It this the attitude after being an SDA for how long?
R” in fact all these questions are difficult to answer. Hmm?
D” Change the biology and it changes the mind – DUH Biology has nothing to do with spirit – but you cannot accept that R” Not sure I can agree with this…
D” The more you speak the less Christian you present yourself R No I am just having trouble dealing with your statements.
D” The difference is I discount Ezk 28 - in favor of all the rest of scripture
R” I see. The rest of Scripture never speaks of angels sinning. So it’s easy to present another view isn’t it?
D” 2- created along with the angels in heaven in the Frist Age –
R" Man was created after the angels sinned, the war in heaven happened before our Creation
D” It was ugly – and aborted from the spirit realm into the physical realm of matter where it belongs R” Why would GOD create something ugly?
D” 1- Is in a finely tuned balance of nature – birth – life – death – and rebirth – the cycle of life R” I didn’t know life is a cycle, living is just that, living, no end to it. Pick a flower in heaven and it remains living, and never dies or fades.
D” Angels just do what they do – what they were created for Archon just do what they do – what they were created for Man just does what man does – choose R” so only man chooses? Alex the parrot can’t choose to be naughty? Only do what parrots do?
If Jesus said the devil was a liar and murderer, than devils have free will and chose to sin, hence break the commands of the royal law.
Richard replies” Some confuse this and think that Christians believe in three separate gods, which they don't.
Rob replies” Richard I do not believe in three separate powers either.
If you study the sinless family model created by GOD in Eden, love comes as two unique personalities of loving, the ahab and the ahanuah kind. This is why creatures exist as one creature but different loving styles. Adam and Eve were genetic clones but different personalities of love. If we are made in the image of GOD gender male and gender female, than this shows the love is not solitary but has differences in loving personalities of love, that united become a solitary circuit of love.
The best simile of this is Mt Sinai, pictured by Dr Kim is a single base mountain with two peaks, seen only when you get close, far away the mountain has one peak. In Hebrew a man and a woman are considered one in marriage, not two different beings, only two personalities of loving that makes one source of love.
If Jesus was the Father in embodiment on earth, why does Jesus pray so often to the Father in heaven? See John 17
Shalom
Late for work, , my computer is playing up too, SHalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Mar 23, 2021 4:09:18 GMT -5
D"the one who continually misses doing evil R" Your not wrong. I checked the Hebrew as you presented. Its OK Though he miss doing RA a hundred times..... 1- I do not translate Hebrew – but I do understand the process2- you are so incredibly wrong! 3- if you handed in your translation for grade it would fail(the one who continually misses) subject doing (verb) evil direct object vrs Though he miss doing RA a hundred times. He (subject) Miss (verb) Do – now you make a participle (a verb acting like an adjective) = doing describing Ra So – either the sinner does ra (my translation) Or – he misses to do ra (your translation) Why than does the KJV translators forget to quote the H834 properly and thus the verb chata, does NOT need to be a gerund.Wait for it ------ it is Grammar 101 H834 - -אֲשֶׁר - (as a noun) = A primitive relative pronoun (of every gender and number); who, which, what, (as adverb and conjunction) = when, where, how, because, in order that, etc.: How do you know if it is a pronoun (he, she, it) or an adverb (when, because, though) Ecc 8:12 (LXX) ὃς ἥμαρτεν, ἐποίησεν τὸ πονηρὸν G3739 - ὅς, ἥ, ὅ (it, she, he)Probably a primary word (or perhaps a form of the article G3588); the relative (sometimes demonstrative) pronoun, who, which, what, that: - one, (an-, the) other, some, that, what, which, who In the LXX – the Greek word choice limits it use as a pronoun (the one who continually misses) subject Ecc 8:12 (KJV) Though a sinner do evil From 834 Hebrew you have an option od pronoun – he she it or an adverb (when, where) or a conjunction (because, in order that, though) Is this polysemy – NO – one is a pronoun, one is an adverb, and one is a conjunction So this H834, can it also mean "though it" "though she" and "though he" ?Hmmm? NO –it can be the pronoun – he she it / or it can be the conjunction – though It cannot be both at the same time In translation – each word is assigned a specific place in a sentence structure Subject – verb – object + preposition and their objects + indirect objects + predicate normative – adjectives + adverbs + conjunctions + particles that hold a place but is not translated into English – because it is sometime just a punctuation mark of emotion Ancient languages – Greek for sure – sacrifice word order for phonetics Some letters / words are hard to pronounce back to back AND – some word phrases cannot be separated – “I think not” is an expression About Homosexuality – I think not! Vrs I think not about homosexuality Two very different meanings – same words So – at times when a word – or phrase usage is dependent upon the user How is the translator to know what is a noun – a adverb – or a conjunctionAnswer – we can’t until we see more of the text – then we can determine how that scribe uses the word Example – if my daughter wrote two sentences within one of my paragraphs – it would stand out Then a PhD of English wrote two more sentences – they would also stand out – then my wife who speaks English as a second language wrote two words – they would definately stand out In English – it all just comes across as King James – or RSV – or NIV – or whateverBut in the original language – different authors uses different words differently Paul was educated elite he uses words that Peter the fisherman never does This is exactly how we know the Gospel of Mark had at least four different authors This is exactly why we question the Book of Hebrews as Paul’s I would much prefer a Bible like that above, Hebrew written above as it was written by scribes, say left to right, for convenience, and underneath the English word equalivent . My POWERCD bible software lets me down many times, the interlinear is missing H834, and I cannot look up this Hebrew word, or is it a prefix?www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htmHebrew Interlinear Bible (OT) Hebrew Text: WLC_v (v1.1): Westminster Leningrad Codex with vowels I gave you this before(click on the image to open in a larger view)Then I’ll take a word like - חֹטֶא– with all of its markings – jots and tittles - and plug it into https:// scholarsgateway.com/parse/%D7%97%D6%B9%D7%98%D6%B6%D7%90 חֹטֶא Part of Speech:Verb Qal Participle Root: חטא Strong's Number: H2398 Infinitive Definition: 1. to sin, miss, miss the way, go wrong, incur In Hebrew of Ecc 8:12 chta is a participle (a verb used as a noun)"It is just basic language skills – " Why does the KJV get it wrong than? No need to make the Verb chata into a pretend Noun, "he misses".D"the one who continually misses(subject) doing (verb) evil (objectThough he (subject) miss (verb) doing RA (object) 1- I do not translate Hebrew – but I do understand the process 2- you are so incredibly wrong! 3- if you handed in your translation for grade it would fail ----------- R" can't you read basic English ? I quote you my words again "The affect of SIN, ie RA, came about from GOD designing the RA, so SIN could be observable." God is the original creator of all things, God put both directions of design into original creation. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. D" Absolutely – tov and ra in a balance called nature – it is called creation -R" Not quite, RA is a the fruit of missing. So was only allowed to come forth after missing happened, I do not agree – but even so – who created the ra? God did! End of argument – God made the tov and the ra! – there is no second creatorso in the beginning tov and ra, never existed, WHAT A BUNCH OF BABBELthe design was just called the tree of living, remeber the other tree had a a different name you assume existed in the utopian world GOD created for sinless Man. It did not exist until after Adam sinned. RA is a byproduct of SIN, not of GOD creating Creation.The other tree was called the Tree of knowledge between tov and raThe other tree was the tree of knowledge The ra existed – Adam and Eve just didn’t understand it – lack of knowledge / ignorance Eccel 8:12 tells you this, as do other verses.Ecc 8:12 Even though a sinner might commit a hundred crimes and prolong his days, yet I know that it will be well for those who fear God, for those who revere Him. How does this verse have any proof that - Adam brought a curse upon NatureWhen Adam sinned, the DNA did not change immediately, the DNA of all things began to experience a missing of GOD's protection, of GOD's power, hence began to experience copy errors for the first time, and since theh DNA is required for copying millisecond by millisecond, the dying die process began immediately upon Adam bringing a curse upon Nature and Himself. YES ROBERT man lost his immortality – man became mortal – like the nimal he was created as in Gen 1 How does this prove that - Adam brought a curse upon Nature
--------------------------- D" Please decide which theology you accept today – you say one thing and preach another Please offer a consistent doctrine R" I do offer a consistent view, the Great Contraversy is about dealing with the SIN problem. The first beings to sin were angels. God decided to banish the sinning angels to earth, making earth dark and void and missing GOD. God decided to create a creation around earth placing mankind in it, created just under elohiym, higher than angels or the same as angels?? to replace the fallen angels, to be a witness to SIN, for the other unfallen worlds. Since the sinning angels tricked mankind into sinning also, GOD decides to die for the missing, caused by the angel causing mischief. I am consistent in my view, I feel Dave. It's the only view presented in the torah. Excuse me – Catholic Catacism II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy. Scripture and the Church's Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called "Satan" or the "devil". The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing." Church's Tradition + The Church teaches What is Rev 12:3? What of the Beast of Revelations? Is he not relevant? OH – Rev 12:3 must be cherub chata before all that creation he walked in with God was created Just like Adam had only one choice – but he choose a different choice that wasn’t available to choose until he chose it --------------------------------------- D" I say amanuah is a spiritual concept R" yes amanuah is a spiritual processSorry Robert – no process – If God touches you – you knowD" my focus is praying in the spirit - being in the spirit R" You do not understand the spiritual process...Sorry Robert – no process – If God touches you – you know In the morning Saul of tarsus hated Jesus – by afternoon He became His biggest apostleDavid explains the second birth experience:Saul to Paul is betterSpecial words in Scripture come with power, and by supporting those words daily, we experience amanuah, the power of GOD flowing into us, by faith. Chanting and rituals are man made preceptsD" You say it is a lot of different things you must do every day to maintain your salvation R " yes you must daily do the process of communion with GOD, and these steps are simply the processes of communion with GOD daily, continually. Not a Saul to Paul’s experience No to many witness that I offer – and is freely found anywhere you look You just deny the gift of the HS and keep preaching ritual worshipThe idea that anyone can lose their salvation is doubt – lack of trust-------------------- These steps are explained in the Scoll of Yashua, in the OT.Not sure as to your referenceWisdom’s Echo led me to “origins gate of NZ” = Ian Clayton (The Son of Thunder) and the NEST – all NZ based Ian Clayton's Story – scribal wellscribalwell.wordpress.com › ian-claytons-story Dec 12, 2019 — Ian Clayton is a New Age mystic who practices some very occult activities, and uses the ministry name Son of Thunder. He gets a Danger rating for the risk his teachings pose to undiscerning Christians. ------------------------ D"Whatever it was – all of God beautiful creation was ruined by this R" decision to SIN … the results of SIN coming from Adam, spoiling our world with it's curse. How does any verse have any proof that - Adam brought a curse upon Nature – as in everything changed Gen 3:17 Then to the man He said, “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate of the tree which I commanded you, saying, ‘You must not eat of it’: Cursed is the ground because of you—with pain will you eat of it all the days of your life. Gen 3:18 Thorns and thistles will sprout for you. You will eat the plants of the field, Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your brow will you eat food, until you return to the ground, since from it were you taken. For you are dust, and to dust will you return.” The Contest is WORLD –vrs- man =- the result of Gen 3:15You suggest ‘Thorns and thistles will sprout for you.’ Is a new creation You suggest ‘with pain will you eat of it all the days of your life.’ – and- ‘By the sweat of your brow will you eat food’ is the a new creative event that altered all plants and animals. You go further – there could be no volcanoes or earthquakes until after Adam sinnedI say – you forget the reality of Eden – a paradise where food was everywhere – a paradise without sharks and dinos – leviathans and behemoths – without the other hominids Gen 2:7 Then Adonai Elohim formed the man out of the dust from the ground and He breathed into his nostrils a breath of life—so the man became a living being. Man of Gen 1 (hominids) already here – alongside the sharks and dinos – leviathans and behemoths
Gen 2:8 Then Adonai Elohim planted a garden in Eden in the east, and there He put the man whom He had formed. THEN – God made Eden especially for Adam – the Human Being of Gen 2:7 Eden came after Gen 1 The entire globe is not EdenEden is a sequestered location at the mouth of the 4 rivers that watered the globeGen 2:9 Then Adonai Elohim caused to sprout from the ground every tree that was desirable to look at and good for food. Now the Tree of Life was in the middle of the garden, and also the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. I say – you forget the reality of Eden – a paradise where food was everywhere – a paradise without sharks and dinos – leviathans and behemoths – without the other hominidsGen 3:22 Then Adonai Elohim said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. So now, in case he stretches out his hand and takes also from the Tree of Life and eats and lives forever,” Knowledge is power – the obvious choice for Adam and Eve – now that they knew – would be to eat of the Tree of Life If you are given one choice – you cannot have both choices You reap what you sow My mom would have said – you made your bed now lay in itGen 3:23 Adonai Elohim sent him away from the Garden of Eden, to work the ground from which he had been taken. Gen 3:24 And He expelled the man; and at the east of the Garden of Eden He had cheruvim dwell along, with the whirling sword of flame, to guard the way to the Tree of Life. 1- where did Adam and Eve go and where what happened to EdenAdam and Eve went to East of Eden – out of paradise into the real world – filled with sharks and dinos – leviathans and behemoths – other hominids – and more serpents than you can count = archon who were already here before man D” a finely tuned balance of nature – birth – life – death – and rebirth – the cycle of life 1.a - R” I didn’t know life is a cycle, living is just that, living, no end to it. Pick a flower in heaven and it remains living, and never dies or fades.Answer =Gen 1:22 Then God blessed them by saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the water in the seas. Let the flying creatures multiply on the land.” Gen 1:28 God blessed them and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, fill the land, Gen 1:30 and to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the heavens, and to every creeping thing on the earth, in which is breath of life, every green herb is for food:' and it is so. Breath of life = Gen 2:7 (spirit + animal) = man, bane elohiym, Nephilim1- where did Adam and Eve go and where what happened to Eden2- Eden stayed right where it has always been2.a. – I can see Eden remaining until the Flood 2.b. – or I can see Eden as the Jewish kabbalah (Enoch) 3rd heaven Slavic Enoch – the Second Book of Enoch - The Secrets of EnochVIII:1 "And those men took me thence, and led me up on to the third heaven, and placed me there; and I looked down-wards, and saw the produce of these places, such as has never been known for goodness." VIII:2 "And I saw the sweet-flowering trees and beheld her their fruits, which were sweet-smelling, and all foods born by them bubbling with fragrant exhalation." VIII:3 "And in the midst of the trees that of life, in that place whereon the Lord rest, when he goes up into paradise; and this tree is of ineffable goodness and fragrance, and adorned more than every existing thing; and on all sides it is in form gold-looking and vermillion and fire-like and covers all, and it has produced from all fruits." VIII:4 "Its root is in the garden at the earth's end." VIII:5 "And paradise is between corruptibility and incorruptibility." VIII:9 "And there are three hundred angels very bright who keep the garden, and with incessant sweet singing and never-silent voices serve the Lord throughout all the days and hours." VIII:10 "And I said: 'How very sweet is this place;' and those men said to me:" IX:1 "This place, O Enoch, is prepared for the righteous, who endure all manner of offence from those that exasperate their souls, who avert their eyes from iniquity, and make righteous judgment, and give bread to the hungering, and cover the naked with clothing, and raise up the fallen, and help injured orphans, and who walk without fault before the face of the Lord, and serve Him alone, and for them is prepared this place for eternal inheritance." Could this be the New Heaven and Earth of Rev 21/22?1Jn 3:2 Loved ones, now we are God’s children; and it has not yet been revealed what we will be. But we do know that when it’s revealed, we shall be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. Perhaps the New heaven and earth is a shift in dimenstions - from here t the 3rd heaven of Enoch (not dcosmology - just speculation) Man started in Eden – enters the real world – to return to the New Heaven and Earth The Rabbi said – Eve knew she could not perform her mission of Jer 1:5 in Eden / in Paradise The Rabbi said she choose to step down into the lower world R" decision to SIN … the results of SIN coming from Adam, spoiling our world with it's curse. Or – she stepped out of the Paradise of Eden into the real world filled with sharks and dinos – leviathans and behemoths – other hominids – and more serpents than you can count = archon who were already here before man------------------------- D" It is of the left hand of God R" isn't this a word game Dave, the right hand and left hand of GOD belong to one Being, so how can the left hand do something the right hand doesn't know its doing, so leaves it's consort? I know immediately if my right hand hits the thumb of my left hand with a hammer.(wiki) This originates from the Bible, Matthew 6:3 (King James Version): But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth. ... "If you should ever be betrayed into any of these philanthropies, do not let your left hand know what your right hand does, for it is not worth knowing." Mat 6:3 (YLT) (Jesus says) But when you do tzedakah, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, You ask - how can the left hand do something the right hand doesn't know its doing, so leaves it's consort? I know immediately if my right hand hits the thumb of my left hand with a hammer.mythsymbolsandplay.typepad.com/my-blog/2018/10/left-and-right-hand-and-symbolism.htmlThe right hand represents Deity. The aggressive hand, hand of growth and strength. Right hand laid on a person conveys authority, blessings, power, strength. Right hand lifted to heaven, and oath, swearing" (Jobes). The right or left is not always opposite. In the Cabala, both hands have positive meanings. The right hand symbolizes the hand of blessing and mercy while the left hand is the hand of the king and represents justice. jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12757-right-and-leftRIGHT AND LEFT. - By: Joseph Jacobs, Judah David Eisenstein —Biblical Data: The right side of things is recognized in many ways as better than the left. The south and north sides of the earth are distinguished as "yamin" (right) and "sem'ol' (left; Job xxiii. 9), the right being the sunnier, brighter side, and the left the bleak and dark side, ill-omened and unlucky, where evil generates. "Out of the north an evil shall break forth upon all the inhabitants of the land" (Jer. i. 14). The right side, or right limb, of a person receives special prominence; the place of honor is at his right. "Upon thy right hand did stand the queen" (Ps. xlv. 9). Solomon placed a seat of honor for his mother, the queen, on his right side (I Kings ii. 19). The right eye was the most important and most vital member of the body. Nahash the Ammonite, as a reproach upon all Israel, purposed putting out the right eye of all men in Jabesh-gilead (I Sam. xi. 2). The prophet predicted, "Wo to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! . . . his right eye shall be utterly darkened" (Zech. xi. 17). The priest in purifying the leper put some of the blood of the sacrifice on the tip of his right ear, the thumb of his right hand, and the great toe of his right foot; he also used his right finger to sprinkle the oil before the altar (Lev. xiv. 14, 16), and received as his share of the peace-offering the right shoulder (Lev. vii. 32). In Jacob's Blessing. Jacob showed the significance of using the right hand in blessing by placing it on the head of Ephraim, —In Rabbinical Literature: In performing the Temple ceremonies the general rule is that "every turn must be made to the right of the way (Yoma 15b). One of the priestly disqualifications is left-handedness (Maimonides, "Yad," Bi'at ha-Miḳdash, ix. 5). In Ceremonial. Ḥaliẓah is performed with the right hand on the right foot Commenting on the passage "I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left" (I Kings xxii. 19), the Midrash, asks, "Is there a right and left above?" and answers, "But there were defenders on the right and accusers on the left" (Tan., Ex. xvii.). In Angelology. The angel Michael, on the right, is more in favor of Israel than Gabriel, who is on the left. Samael (from "sem'ol"="left") is on the left, outside, as the antagonist of Israel (see Kohut, "Ueber die Jüdische Angelologie," pp. 30, 57). The "yeẓer-ṭob" (angel whose influence is toward the good) is on the right side, and the "yeẓer ha-ra' " (angel whose influence is toward wickedness) is on the left of every person. Mat 6:3 (TLV) (Jesus says) But when you do tzedakah, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, Mat 25:41 (KJV) (Jesus repeats) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Jesus was a Jew speaking to a Jewish audience – everyone in his audience completely understoodYou ask - how can the left hand do something the right hand doesn't know its doing, so leaves it's consort? I know immediately if my right hand hits the thumb of my left hand with a hammer.R" isn't this a word game Dave, the right hand and left hand of GOD belong to one Being, so how can the left hand do something the right hand doesn't know its doing,You use simile and metaphor to explain away scripture But Jesus is not allowed – is this another of your Royal Laws?This concept is understood by every Jewish boy and girlYou struggle against it to discredit the idea – yet the idea is scriptural – Oops!------------- D" There is only One True GodR" elohiym is just a single mountain peak is it? Are you sure? If GOD is not a family of loving persons, than only your theory makes sense, but if GOD is solitary the only way love can be expressed is by creation Correct – God’s love is unrequited – God loves His creation regardless if it loves Him back This is why God rewards the Prodigal Son – who chooses to love God back by his own free will Richard replies” Some confuse this and think that Christians believe in three separate gods, which they don't. I googled his sentencewww.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/beliefs/basicsThe Trinity Some confuse this and think that Christians believe in three separate gods, which they don't. Christians believe that God took human form as Jesus Christ and that God is present today through the work of the Holy Spirit and evident in the actions of believers.Aug 14, 2009 Rob replies” Richard I do not believe in three separate powers either. If Jesus was the Father in embodiment on earth, why does Jesus pray so often to the Father in heaven? See John 17There is that Robert consistency I am so used to Do you believe in multiple Gods or not?God in Heaven in in communion with 10 dimension and our dimension alone includes 1.0x10 to the infinity of planets and galaxies and people – yet God knows every hair of every head The image of God is in the form of a man – and thanks to Adam and Eve (any man/everyman/humanity in general) – this form is limited by biology First Book of Adam and Eve8:2 Then God the Lord said unto Adam, "When thou wast under subjection to Me, thou hadst a bright nature within thee, and for that reason couldst thou see things afar off. But after thy transgression thy bright nature was withdrawn from thee; and it was not left to thee to see things afar off, but only near at hand; after the ability of the flesh; for it is brutish." Jesus Christ was fully human – He got hungry (if He didn’t then what is the point of fasting) He felt the cold – He got wet in the rain – and He bled upon the cross – He was given vinegar Jesus Christ was fully human = (spirit +(animal)) = (yester tov + yester ra) Except Jesus Christ = (Christ +(animal)) = (God + (animal)) His yester tov was stronger than His animal yester ra Satan proved it for us in the wilderness Proving that Jesus Christ was more than a man (spirit + (animal)) = He was (Christ + (Jesus)) ------------ D: Why is it a sin to obey God – this has to be your second worst doctrine When God told satan to temp Job – you say God told satan to sin When a volunteer spirit stepped forward to be a deceiving spirits for god – you say God asked him to sin When God told Joshua to perform genocide – you say God told Israel to sin When God told Saul to perform genocide – you say God forded Israel to sin When God laid waste to Sodom and Gomorrah – your God sinned Why is it a sin to obey God – this has to be your second worst doctrine R” in fact all these questions are difficult to answer. Hmm?Not hard at all for any Jewish boy or girl to understandOnly hard for you because they are contrary to your doctrineBut instead of choosing scripture as your authority – you choose your doctrine and consider these passages to be ‘hard to explain’ D" God has done a lot of ra – millions if not billions were killed by God and His ra R I am uncomfortable thinking of this statementRead your ahlBut instead of choosing scripture as your authority – you choose your doctrine and consider these passages to be uncomfortableUncomfortable or not - Not hard at all for any Jewish boy or girl to understandOnly hard for you because they are contrary to your doctrine------------------------------------ D” Change the biology and it changes the mind – DUH Biology has nothing to do with spirit – but you cannot accept that R” Not sure I can agree with this…Witness to a coma patient Ever seen a war vet with head trauma Take any Christian and give them a lobotomy they will forget their own names Witness to a Alzheimer’s patient ------------- D” The more you speak the less Christian you present yourself R No I am just having trouble dealing with your statements. No you are discovering that your doctrine is error You are desperately trying to defend your satan – but you fail D” The difference is I discount Ezk 28 - in favor of all the rest of scripture R” I see. The rest of Scripture never speaks of angels sinning. So it’s easy to present another view isn’t it? Please Mr Bible student at the college level – tell me who Jude and Peter are speaking of 1- if it is your satan and company then – satan and company is not here on earth, but locked away And your Great Controversy collapsesR" Man was created after the angels sinned, the war in heaven happened before our CreationAll you can see is biology – Gen 1Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, (Day One) The difference I consider man to be one of the host in heavenRev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. You deny the spirit realm – no men in heaven for you – only biology and memories------------- D” It was ugly – and aborted from the spirit realm into the physical realm of matter where it belongs R” Why would GOD create something ugly? YA – why did God create man with such depth of debauchery---------------------------- D” Angels just do what they do – what they were created for Archon just do what they do – what they were created for Man just does what man does – choose R” so only man chooses? Alex the parrot can’t choose to be naughty? Only do what parrots do? Sure Robert – you can train a dog to lick your boots also – WHAT DOES THA HAVE TO DOP WITH THE FREE WILL CHOICE TO CHATA OR MITZVAH------------------------------ If Jesus said the devil was a liar and murderer, than devils have free will and chose to sin, hence break the commands of the royal law. According to you every animal in the food chain that consumes another animal is a devil – or all these species are actively choosing to chata – and deny God-------------------------- Late for work, my computer is playing up too, No rush – I am always here – enjoy the topicBut honestly – you do not look at the ahl as a whole – you see it only as your doctrine dictates And you end up with all these hard questions that do not fit and must be ignored to maintain the truth of your doctrine Join another church – another doctrine – and another – all variations upon Rome not Jerusalem You have great Controversy between satan and God – yet have no education on the Beast – or the Great red dragon - curious
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2021 14:49:25 GMT -5
Greetings Dave It's nice as a student to have a teacher of translation
D" So – either the sinner does ra (my translation) Or – he misses to do ra (your translation)
Could it be perhaps we are trying to fit English grammar rules into our translation? Or are we trying to divide Hebrew words into verbs and nouns, when from reading Jeff Benner's idea, I do not get the impression Hebrew has verb or nouns, only actions that are complete or incomplete. As for prefix using a pronoun, I am not sure. What you are doing is making the verb "missing" into a pronoun "the sinner". The is similar to making the verb "oppose" into a pronoun "the Opposer". In Hebrew if the verb is to be completed as a person, I notice the prefix "hey" is used and this becomes the letter of a person "Behold the person". so 'hey-satan' is the Hebrew to "Behold the person, opposing", and the KJV correctly assumes this to be a Name of an angel who sin continually and opposes continually. In this case the 'chata' 'asah' 'ra' has only a prefix 'though' added, not the prefix 'hey'. If the missing action was to be completed, the Hebrew noun form 'chet' could be used, but it's not used, only the verb for an incomplete action is used, 'chata'. I do not see anything wrong much with my wordings 'though (he) missing does ra' compared to your idea 'though the sinner does ra' First I see from your wordings that the sinner is a person who does ra. Is this idea correct? Also you introduce a label, the sinner, a bad label, that hurts people... sinners do ra. Second if you look at my wordings, the person misses doing ra, suggest a person doing ra comes from the person missing. Thus the fruit of missing is ra. There is no label for the person as a sinner, you are just a person missing, and from missing you do ra. Yes I understand from a scholar school the grammar is poor, it does not follow English rules of object-verb- object. But I am more interested in the spiritual understand of the words, rather than fitting the words into traditions of men assuming English must control the Hebrew. I like to see the Hebrew controlling the English, even if the grammar becomes poor. I hope my intentions here are honourable Dave. D" But in the original language – different authors uses different words differently Paul was educated elite he uses words that Peter the fisherman never does
This is exactly how we know the Gospel of Mark had at least four different authors This is exactly why we question the Book of Hebrews as Paul’s
R" Yes, people wrestle with Paul's hard words. Agree www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdfYes thank you ever so much Dave, that link is a really nice Bible translation. Do you have such a quality link that does the NT in Hebrew as well? Ecc 8:12 Which one-missing doing dysfunction, (from your link above) Ancient Hebrew, reading every letter, chata and asah not read as letters "The head presses strong", "missing" "doing" "twisting head" Notice the subject is inside the prefix. "head" or "you" So when missing your head becomes twisted head. Love the humour of Hebrew. D" I do not agree – but even so – who created the ra? God did! End of argument – God made the tov and the ra! – there is no second creatorR" Yes God did create the ra, no need of a second creator, to make the direction of missing observable. D" The other tree was called the Tree of knowledge between tov and ra WHAT A BUNCH OF BABBELR" The other tree was called the tree of living. no mention of tov or ra If you are living in GOD, with GOD you are beyond the mere letters of law, so the defining of missing by law is not necessary, so there is no mention of tov or ra. You are just living with GOD for eternity. D" How does this verse have any proof that - Adam brought a curse upon NatureR" It doesn't. The verse shows that a person does missing is also doing ra. Both are similar ideas, the missing causes the directions of ra. Thus ra comes only when a person does missing. No sin, no ra. Curse is ra, hence when Adam did missing, the curse of ra followed. D" How does this prove that - Adam brought a curse upon NatureR" Hmm? God told Adam, who was prince over creation: Ge 3:17 cursed is the ground for thy sake; Adam came from adamah, as did all the creatures of creation also came from adamah. D" II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS 391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy. Scripture and the Church's Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called "Satan" or the "devil". The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing." Church's Tradition + The Church teaches
R" so do you oppose all Catholic teachings and want a different theology that is Jewish ? What if some Catholic teachings are true and correct, do you reject them also? D" Sorry Robert – no process – If God touches you – you know In the morning Saul of tarsus hated Jesus – by afternoon He became His biggest apostleR" And so Paul never had any further struggles in his walk with Christ? D" Saul to Paul is betterR" really show me the verses which detail the conversion process like David does. Nicodemus asked for Holy SPirit and womb context, David does this. SHow me your verses? There arn't any Dave? D" No to many witness that I offer – and is freely found anywhere you lookR" OK post some verses for me to see D" I say – you forget the reality of Eden – a paradise where food was everywhere – a paradise without sharks and dinos – leviathans and behemoths – without the other hominidsR" I see. outside the Eden garden were decomposers, sharks eating fish and other human like creatures. Really Dave? And all this is perfect? Hardly. My understanding of GOD is GOD is a creator of perfection, not one who naturally tolerates flaws in the design of things. D" If you are given one choice – you cannot have both choices You reap what you sow My mom would have said – you made your bed now lay in itR" Well said. God does exactly that. Adam chose, God gave what Adam wanted. A fallen world. D" This originates from the Bible, Matthew 6:3 (King James Version): But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth. ... "If you should ever be betrayed into any of these philanthropies, do not let your left hand know what your right hand does, for it is not worth knowing.
Isn't this a Hebrew idiom, so we have to ask the torah what the idiom means? Ge 13:9 Is not the whole land before thee? separate thyself, I pray thee, from me: if thou wilt take the left hand, then I will go to the right; or if thou depart to the right hand, then I will go to the left. Ge 48:14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn. Le 14:16 And the priest shall dip his right finger in the oil that is in his left hand, and shall sprinkle of the oil with his finger seven times before the LORD: Nu 20:17 Let us pass, I pray thee, through thy country: we will not pass through the fields, or through the vineyards, neither will we drink of the water of the wells: we will go by the king's high way, we will not turn to the right hand nor to the left, until we have passed thy borders. Jos 23:6 Be ye therefore very courageous to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses, that ye turn not aside therefrom to the right hand or to the left; Job 23:9 On the left hand, where he doth work, but I cannot behold him: he hideth himself on the right hand, that I cannot see him: Pr 3:16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour. Pr 4:27 Turn not to the right hand nor to the left: remove thy foot from evil. Ec 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Song 8:3 His left hand should be under my head, and his right hand should embrace me. Isa 9:20 And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm: Isa 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left. Da 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. Jon 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle? Mt 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: Mt 20:21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. Mr 15:27 And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left. 2Co 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, Re 10:2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, (KJV) There are over 61 verses that use this idiom. You do not simply explain the idiom to me Dave. I leave the verses here for you to read. D" You struggle against it to discredit the idea – yet the idea is scriptural – Oops!R" OK, so why didn't you simply tell me what the idiom means? Yes 61 verses tell us much, no need for Jewish traditional ideas. D" I googled his sentence www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/beliefs/basics The Trinity Some confuse this and think that Christians believe in three separate gods, which they don't. Christians believe that God took human form as Jesus Christ and that God is present today through the work of the Holy Spirit and evident in the actions of believers.Aug 14, 2009
R" I see, so Catholics believe the Most High appeared as YHWH in the OT, as a SON in the NT and as the HS to all of us today? The trinity is the idea of the Most High having three expressions of Himself, as Father, Son and HS? Why do the Catholics than say these three are one, if the expressions are from the only one? D" There is that Robert consistency I am so used to Do you believe in multiple Gods or not?R" DO you understand Hebrew ideas Dave? Answer these questions: All refer to utopian world, sinless world, nothing imperfect: 1) Man was made in elohiym's image, gender male and gender female? Y/N? 2) so what does gender male and gender female mean? 3) There are two Hebrew words for love? ahab abd ahabuh ? Y/N? 4) When the human marries do the two couples become one ? Y/N? 5) Are the married couples considerd two beings or one being? one or two? 6) Is the flesh of the Mr human different from Mrs human? Y/N? 7) So what makes them different? The styles of loving? In summary, Eve was a genetic clone of Adam, both were one being, one flesh, but two personalities of loving, the man showed mostly provider love and woman showed mostly responding love. They are consisted one unit, and are written in Hebrew gender masculine. Your query of saying the marriage are two independent couples making decisions, is pagan. In Hebrew they are a unit, and all decisons flow within and without from the masculine master, the provider love flows. Hence one source, one spring of love flows. D" Not hard at all for any Jewish boy or girl to understandR" OK what woudl these children answer? Please tell me D" No you are discovering that your doctrine is errorR" no the torah is not in error, nor shoudl any little verse be ignored as you claim D" 1- if it is your satan and company then – satan and company is not here on earth, but locked away And your Great Controversy collapsesR" they are locked unto earth with humans yes, but not locked away from humans Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Mar 24, 2021 2:34:39 GMT -5
It's nice as a student to have a teacher of translation I do translate, I have taught class more than once And I have a long time – do it mean I can wage my way through Homer – NO Does it mean I could decipher the original – NO I do not misrepresent it in any way, shape, or form to support any agenda I translate non-Biblical Greek as well – for me it like working a crossword puzzle, or playing with a math problem Could it be perhaps we are trying to fit English grammar rules into our translation?If you read a text book – you would learn 1- ancient languages lacked vocabulary 2- therefore it depended more on breathing and emphasis by the speaker Ancient man wet to the cave opening to look out There in the distance he saw a lion – look out he told his family The lion came closer and noticed their cave – look out he told his family The lion got behind his child – the cave man said look out Each and every ‘look out’ is exactly the same word- all with different intensity This intensity become written breathing marks In Greek there is no H – des means to see a+des = don’t see add a rough breathing mark before the word for emphasis it become hades So ancient man went to the ‘look out’ noun to ‘look out’ verb He told his family – look out there The lion noticed them – he said ‘LOOK OUT’ The lion got behind it child he screamed something unintelligible ‘LOOK THE HELL OUT’ These breathing / emphasis marks become jots and tittles – breathing marks, punctuation Also ancient languages were MORE confined – MORE strict in use Ancient Greek is still the language of Law and International Treaties Ancient Greek was the official language of all inner cultural trade – treaty – or law And this is whu the agl was Greek – because it is the most trusted language on earth - at least to the known orld at the time of its writtingWhy is it trusted – because it is so tightly structured it only means was it says Its structure – its spelling rules and grammar rule are so tight – to eliminate any and all polysemy Today – we are the product of the Phoenicians, the Hebrews, the Greeks, the Latins, the Germans, and then the English - we have added vocabulary from them all – and they all have a grammatical structure Could it be perhaps we are trying to fit English grammar rules into our translation?Today our English rules and grammar are a reflection of the past – an amalgamate of the past Or are we trying to divide Hebrew words into verbs and nouns, when from reading Jeff Benner's idea, I do not get the impression Hebrew has verb or nouns, only actions that are complete or incomplete. As for prefix using a pronoun, I am not sure.Yes actions are verbs – the doer of the action is the subject – what he does is the object – where he does it becomes a prepositional phrase – how aggressively he does it (slowly or quickly) become adverbs – and those subjects and objects can be further described with adjectives – “The tall man did the terrible crime” Adjectives are always associated with the noun they modify Adverbs can be tricky “The tall man quickly did the terrible crime” “The tall man did the terrible crime quickly” What you are doing is making the verb "missing" into a pronoun "the sinner".The is similar to making the verb "oppose" into a pronoun "the Opposer". Yes most action verbs can become gerunds/participles The running man is a runner who runs a lot The verb to accuse is easily the accuser - correct In Hebrew if the verb is to be completed as a person, I notice the prefix "hey" is used and this becomes the letter of a person "Behold the person". Now you are speaking about Proper NounsWhat is the correct difference between the eath and the Earth? Or the capital and the Capital? so 'hey-satan' is the Hebrew to "Behold the person, opposing", and the KJV correctly assumes this to be a Name of an angel who sin continually and opposes continually.Correct – The accuser is the one who does that function – the role he was assigned Correct – the Prosecutor – continually does his job – it is his job First I see from your wordings that the sinner is a person who does ra. Is this idea correct? Also you introduce a label, the sinner, a bad label, that hurts people... sinners do ra.This sentence says the sinner doing ra - correct The label sinner has been with us a long time - Second if you look at my wordings, the person misses doing ra, suggest a person doing ra comes from the person missing. Thus the fruit of missing is raThis is an incorrect assumption – if your ra is the result of sin onlySometimes ra is the result of obedience – Joshua go and kill them all Saul – go and commit genocide God killed an entire planet with a Flood – that was a ra – you don’t like this idea because it makes God a sinner in your understanding You just posted that God made all the Ra – waiting to use it for later when sin occurred If God makes ra – it is not a sin or the result of sin But if man makes ra – it is always the result of sin is errorSo to you the 19 yr old soldier whacking and hacking at his enemy – making ra – making murder with malice and forethought – obeying Joshua obeying the Lord is a sinner This is an incorrect assumption – if your ra is the result of sin only Yes thank you ever so much Dave, that link is a really nice Bible translation. Do you have such a quality link that does the NT in Hebrew as well?If the NY was written in Hebrew and we have a copy – there would beD" I do not agree – but even so – who created the ra? God did! End of argument – God made the tov and the ra! – there is no second creator R" Yes God did create the ra, no need of a second creator, to make the direction of missing observable. Finally you accept scripture D" The other tree was called the Tree of knowledge between tov and ra WHAT A BUNCH OF BABBEL R" The other tree was called the tree of living. no mention of tov or raGen 2:9 …. Now the Tree of Life was in the middle of the garden, and also the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Gen 2:17 But of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you must not eat. Gen 3:24 And He expelled the man; and at the east of the Garden of Eden He had cheruvim dwell along, with the whirling sword of flame, to guard the way to the Tree of Life. You think the choice was tov or ra When actually the choice were life or knowledge between the tov and the ra D"How does this verse have any proof that - Adam brought a curse upon Nature R" It doesn't. The verse shows that a person does missing is also doing ra. Both are similar ideas, the missing causes the directions of ra. Thus ra comes only when a person does missing. No sin, no ra.Failed assumptionCurse is ra, hence when Adam did missing, the curse of ra followed. unto man Rom 5:12 agreesD" How does this prove that - Adam brought a curse upon Nature R" Hmm? God told Adam, who was prince over creation: Ge 3:17 cursed is the ground for thy sake; Just proves that earth is another tool used by God and archon in the Contest of Gen 3:15 Just as satn is a tool - Justa as the archon are a tool ------------- D" II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS Church's Tradition + The Church teaches R" so do you oppose all Catholic teachings and want a different theology that is Jewish ? What if some Catholic teachings are true and correct, do you reject them also?Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. Mat 5:18 Amen, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or serif shall ever pass away from the Torah until all things come to pass. Mat 5:19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever keeps and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Mat 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees and Torah scholars, you shall never enter the kingdom of heaven! Yes – Jesus came to make all men Messianic Jews Gal 3:7 know then that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 350 year later after all the First Christians were persecuted out of existence and their wittings banned Rome invented a new religion call Roman Catholicism and satan becomes the god of evil R" so do you oppose all Catholic teachingsThe difference between a deception and a bold face lie A deception contains a lot of truth just presents it with a bias – a skew – an agenda Every politician study how to do it effectively – all salesmen school how to do it But yes – I hold the Catholic Church directly responsible for the empty message of ChristianityThe legacy of Roman Christendom after 2000 yrs is IF THER IS A GOD - HE IS WEAK OR DOESN’T CARE 1st Commandment - no other gods – and the Catholics pray to Mary and the saints 2nd Commandment – no idols – ever see a Cathedral? Statues and artwork of all types Go to the Vatican – the statue of St Peter – is the statue of The Roman god Jupiter borrowed from a pagan temple 4th Commandment – the Sabbath Day 3rd Commandment – take the Lords name in vain My wife prayed to the Pope until she was 25 – unworthy to speak directly to Christ or God The marriage of church and state (wiki) The Roman Empire legally recognized Pauline Christianity as a valid religion in 313 AD. Later in that century, in 380 AD, Roman Catholicism became the official religion of the Roman Empire Roman Catholic priest became pro-state / agents of the state and rewarded by the state for population control Some priest were paid directly by Rome Many were allowed to become rich by collecting with taxesReligion became – the business of religion and many priest were in the clergy because they were just power hungry men seeking positions of authority – today these same priest would have been lawyers – to wall Street types – business Tycoons - dictators – politicians the Pope owns 51% of General Motors The archon – satan – had his best work within the church atThe Second Lateran Council (1139) made the promise to remain celibate a prerequisite to ordination, abolishing the married priesthood. Again – men who are not even scripturally qualified to be deacons or elders are the priest and popes This was a perversion that man – could not hold – because priest or not we are all animals Any religious movement that didn’t make Rome the center – Rome dependent - was quashed The Inquisition is a wonderful example of Christian love to his fellow man The 30 years war is another When I was in High school – the news was dominated by those damn Catholic IRA members at war in Ireland Do you grasp why Brex-it was so hardThe boarder in Norther Ireland – is physical People work on both sides of the border – families live on both sides of the border The History of Ireland since King Henry the VIII made the Anglian Church – that boarder has been a war zone – until efforts for re-unification resulting in a push for a wider EU Since the 90s that boarder has been completely open and free – and safe – no conflict As of right now – you need your passport to cross that boarder People who used to have job – cannot get to them because 20 years ago they had a conviction Children cannot visit grandparents who have unpaid parking tickets Since the 90s a loaf of bread and the price of gas was the same Today – there can be $$$ difference in price because two countries have different tax codes and tariffs Many local farmers – now cannot compete EU companies are taxed hard in the North and English companies are taxed hard in the south Catholic control vrs a Protestant liberalism – today Divide and conquer – and our modern culture looks at the Roman Catholic Church with must disgustPeople move away from the hypocrisy – but the error is that leave faith behindMoving away from the church – what other non-religious options are there to trust n – evolution or myth – one we can touch and feel and one we can only believe in Deception – some truth but a misdirected messageThe Apocalypse of Peter - The Nag Hammadi Library"For many will accept our teaching in the beginning. And they will turn from them again by the will of the Father of their error, because they have done what he wanted. And he will reveal them in his judgment, i.e., the servants of the Word. But those who became mingled with these shall become their prisoners, since they are without perception. And the guileless, good, pure one they push to the worker of death, and to the kingdom of those who praise Christ in a restoration. And they praise the men of the propagation of falsehood, those who will come after you. And they will cleave to the name of a dead man, thinking that they will become pure. But they will become greatly defiled and they will fall into a name of error, and into the hand of an evil, cunning man and a manifold dogma, and they will be ruled without law." "For some of them will blaspheme the truth and proclaim evil teaching. And they will say evil things against each other. Some will be named: (those) who stand in (the) strength of the archons, of a man and a naked woman who is manifold and subject to much suffering. … "And there shall be others of those who are outside our number who name themselves bishop and also deacons, as if they have received their authority from God. They bend themselves under the judgment of the leaders. Those people are dry canals." Ponder why Rome didn’t canonize this?D" Sorry Robert – no process – If God touches you – you know In the morning Saul of tarsus hated Jesus – by afternoon He became His biggest apostle R" And so Paul never had any further struggles in his walk with Christ?Sorry Robert – what a misconception – instead now more than ever before Paul knew betterRom 7:15 For I do not understand what I am doing—for what I do not want, this I practice; but what I hate, this I do. I mean to do nothing but witness to my friend Robert – yet at times I want to stomp my feet in frustrationRom 7:19 For the good that I want, I do not do; but the evil that I do not want, this I practice. Rom 7:23 but I see a different law in my body parts (yester ra), battling against the law of my mind (yester tov) and bringing me into bondage under the law of sin which is in my body parts. (yester ra) Rom 7:24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? (rescue me – from the body) = (me + (amimal)) = (soul/spirit + (animal)) Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God—it is through Messiah Yeshua our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself serve the Torah of God; but with my flesh, I serve the law of sin. D" Saul to Paul is better R" really show me the verses which detail the conversion process like David does. Show me your verses? There arn't any Dave?2Co 12:1 I must go on boasting—though it does no good, I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2Co 12:2 I know a man in Messiah (whether in the body I don’t know, or whether out of the body I don’t know—God knows)—fourteen years ago, he was caught up to the third heaven. 2Co 12:3 I know such a man (whether in the body or outside of the body I don’t know—God knows)— 2Co 12:4 he was caught up into Paradise and heard words too sacred to tell, which a human is not permitted to utter. 2Co 12:5 On behalf of such a man I will boast—but about myself I will not boast, except in regard to my weaknesses. 2Co 12:6 For if I should want to boast, I would not be foolish—for I will speak the truth. D" No to many witness that I offer – and is freely found anywhere you look R" OK post some verses for me to see
Exo 3:2 Then the angel of Adonai appeared to him in a flame of fire from within a bush. So he looked and saw the bush burning with fire, yet it was not consumed. Exo 3:3 Moses thought, “I will go now, and see this great sight. Why is the bush not burnt?” Exo 3:4 When Adonai saw that he turned to look, He called to him out of the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” So he answered, “Hineni.” Exo 3:5 Then He said, “Come no closer. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” Exo 3:6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” So Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God. I just googled - people who claim a spiritual conversion About 12,000,000 results (0.59 seconds)D" I say – you forget the reality of Eden – a paradise where food was everywhere – a paradise without sharks and dinos – leviathans and behemoths – without the other hominids R" I see. outside the Eden garden were decomposers, sharks eating fish and other human like creatures. Really Dave? And all this is perfect? Hardly. My understanding of GOD is GOD is a creator of perfection, not one who naturally tolerates flaws in the design of things.Only you consider th glorious balace of nature that can only point to an Intelligent flawed NO – that is not the questionThe entire globe was not Eden – Adam and Eve were forced out to the East From one location to another You claim their world they lived in all changed So what happened to Eden – why did a cherub have to guard it – if it disappeared? Without any ra –without any volcanoes or earth quakes you must claim Protoplanet earth must have just popped into existence fully formed The problem there is no evidence or mathematical model to say this was the caseExcept the self-validating Creation Institute and its miss-informationFact the teaching of creationism does not bring people back to the faith The protoplanet underwent some growing pains to get here Incremental Creation includes all the data from all sides and is completely open to scrutiny It took 4 Days to get to this condition – there were many steps occurring in those 4 Days All the things here are RA in nature yet are designed by GOD, I am puzzled as to why you think some evil god created these things of ra, when it clearly says GOD did. Satan is no creator, only a spoiler, never creates anything beautiful, And snow, light dividing, lightning and thunder are all things of RA, which were wrought into our world, after SIN came in Gen 3 or Gen 8? There are over 61 verses that use this idiom. You do not simply explain the idiom to me Dave. I leave the verses here for you to read. I have many timesD" You struggle against it to discredit the idea – yet the idea is scriptural – Oops! R" OK, so why didn't you simply tell me what the idiom means?Is it my fault you understanding of the Torah and Judaism is weak? Yes 61 verses tell us much, no need for Jewish traditional ideas.Ha ha ha giggle giggle – where do you think Jewish tradition comes fromR" I see, so Catholics believe the Most High appeared as YHWH in the OT, as a SON in the NT and as the HS to all of us today? The trinity is the idea of the Most High having three expressions of Himself, as Father, Son and HS? Why do the Catholics than say these three are one, if the expressions are from the only one? The Trinity = there is only one God – the Father Creator – He is not male or female or he is both But man can experience Him as male –or- female If man experience Him as male = Christ – God in the form of a man If man experience Him as Spirit – she is seen as female This is 100% Jewish dualism – expressed in the 10 seferoits 3 at the top – Father Creator above and a male and female side to creation The Jews saw this a YHWY and shekinah The Father sits upon the Throne – the shekinah went out from God among the people Christianity – folloy explains why the ancient Jewish Kabbalah had 3 seferiots at the top Because Christ is God – the Messiah is / was God himself - God incarnate = God in a carnal body D" Not hard at all for any Jewish boy or girl to understandR" OK what would these children answer? Please tell me99% of Christianity also preach the Trinity – just a shorten version excluding the rest of reality D" 1- if it is your satan and company then – satan and company is not here on earth, but locked away And your Great Controversy collapses R" they are locked unto earth with humans yes, but not locked away from humans2Pe 2:4 For God did not spare angels when they sinned, but threw them into Sheol. He put them in chains of gloomy darkness, to be held until the judgment. So earth where you and I live today = sheol
|
|