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Post by Dave on Sept 27, 2020 10:40:12 GMT -5
Dear Robert
What is the point – or what is the value – of the Nag Hammadi
My answer = There is a youtube series called 5 Levels Different topics are discussed with – or explained to – a child, a teen, a college student, a masters student, and then at PhD expert level
Each level 1 contains the simplest version with the simplest vocabulary By the time we get to level 5 – the vocabulary and construct looks nothing like the child version
Chemistry is a great example – in high school you learn the structure of the atom as 3 particles In college – you have to drop that model for a more heisenbug uncertainty cloud of energy As a Phd – you learn that the sub atomic fractions that make up the sub atomic particles suffer from quantum entanglement
Each level is correct to a point The truth to it all – all of it is way beyond man – man is groping to understand
Scripture Level 1 – God + commandments = reward in heaven Level 2 – God + commandments + Christ = divine pardon + reward in heaven Level 3 – Christ = God incarnate + the comforter = Born Again Level 4 – you got to walk and talk with Jesus Christ (disciples) or God (ahl phophets)
Each level is correct to a point The truth to it all – all of it is way beyond man – man is groping to understand
What is required of man – to remember and witness God’s Glory If you are a practicing Jew (level 1) – practice well – it impacts your proportional punishment If you become a Christian (level 2) – belief must not include doubt – steadfast – never deny Christ - it impacts your proportional punishment / rewards in heaven If you become Born Again – more is expected of you – and you are judged harder If you stand up to be a teacher – more is expected of you – and you are judged harder
Each stage of growth – comes with more understanding John 1:1-4 is a stumbling block for all new Christians – they will never find Christ by understanding that passage – but once they find Christ – that passage become more clear
What is the point – or what is the value – of the Nag Hammadi Answer #1 – the Nag Hammadi – speaks to a different level
What is the point – or what is the value – of the Nag Hammadi Look at the history of Judaism and Christianity Jewish thought have NEVER included a free willing evil satan that hates God and Ezk 28 is their text Instead – satan is an angel in the service of the Lord – doing God’s dirty work
Jesus Christ walked and talked with the disciples None of them wrote that satan is a free willing evil hate god They write – God made the powers, and principalities (archon) by him for him They all agree that the “devil” and the “beast” are bad from the very beginning They call the “devil” and the “beast” the father of ‘missing” – YES I agree – not that they created / invented it – but they were the FIRST Galileo is the father of astronomy – he created nothing – he was just the first George Washington I the father of my country – he created nothing – he was just the first
For the First 364 years – Christianity was not organized – no central authority Origin thought he was an authority – so did Ireanius – so did Arathmus Central organization did not occur until the Council of Nicaea – and the Roman State
What changed after that Roman Christendom – declare they are the one true church They moved the Sabbath to Sun day and made every effort to de-Judify the faith They actively seek out and burn any text speaking of the archon They promote satan from a servant of God to a free willing God hating evil god
Even tho the God hating opposer does not oppose God in scripture – so doctrine must me developed to justify satan new god like status
Roman Christendom = satan worship – it elevates satan and diminishes God The archon – have taken over the Roman Church – and the Catholic Church preaches satan worship
All though the middle ages – the Church told man not to wash of the dirt of their sin – but bear it in shame All though the middle ages – demons and satans were everywhere – in the air we breath Witches were hunted and prosecuted up until 1640 America
Protestants break away from the Catholics – yet the doctrine remains the same The SDA – is a satan focused doctrine that gives satan a god like status Two opposing gods locked in eternal conflict
This is 100% Roman Catholic and 0% Jewish in any form
What is the point – or what is the value – of the Nag Hammadi Answer #2 – it puts satan back in his rightful place as nothing more than any angel doing God bidding
What is the point – or what is the value – of the Nag Hammadi Answer #3 – not only does it put satan in his rightful place – but it also explains the loose ends of the ahl (Lillith and shedim + everything written by King Solomon – who was given the knowledge and wisdom by God)
How close should we hold the Nag Hamadi Just with the example of – Chief Archon + Chief Ruler + First Archon + a proper name Or – defile + defile + seduce + rape – it is obvious to see – the Nag Hammadi is not a perfect translation The Nag Hammadi was written before 250AD
Question – how long did a text last in 100AD – 20-25 years before they must be transcribed again So the Nag Hammadi could have been transcribed 10-15 times before we get to our version Was it also transcribed by people who read their own doctrine into the words (Davies) Was it transcribed by experts? Answer – unknown – nothing to compare it to
What does this mean – When the text say the authorities place Adam in the Garden – who is this Christ and God – God and the HS – or two archon Answer – we do not have enough – to make absolute fact statements Because of the Roma Edit – the Nag Hammadi Suffers
How close should we hold the Nag Hammadi Answer #1 – it must be evaluated against the bulk of other works – like the ahl + agl + Kabbalah
You say – I fit it into the Torah – where else should it fit?
How close should we hold the Nag Hammadi Answer #2 – In my hard copy – I have a lot of words marked as questionable I even have a few sections – that I have a big red X through – either they just don’t make sense or just seem so wrong – I don’t understand them
Does this discredit the entire volume for me – NO – just reaffirms how rough the text is
What does the Nag Hammadi do for the faith 1- it returns Christianity to a more Jewish view and 180* away from the Roman view 2- it exposes the extent of the Roman Edit 3- it gives us a view of the reality that is so much larger than Rome will ever admit to
There are 10 heaven – and 7 of them are filled with life We are only 1 universe of 7 universes in a multiverse – of 10 dimensions As Elijah asked God to open his servant’s eyes – (2 Kings 6:17-20) the servant saw the hillside covered in angelic beings
The First Book of Adam and Eve 8:1 THEN Adam wept and said, "O God, when we dwelt in the garden, and our hearts were lifted up, we saw the angels that sang praises in heaven, but now we do not see as we were used to do; nay, when we entered the cave, all creation became hidden from us."
8:2 Then God the Lord said unto Adam, "When thou wast under subjection to Me, thou hadst a bright nature within thee, and for that reason couldst thou see things afar off. But after thy transgression thy bright nature was withdrawn from thee; and it was not left to thee to see things afar off, but only near at hand; after the ability of the flesh; for it is brutish."
What is the point of the Nag Hammadi It was written and hidden for the generation of the end times – discovered 1945 Enoch and he War Scroll – written about the final conflict – discovered 1947 Israel becomes a Nation once again 1948
What is it going to be like in the End of Days?
Mat 24:37 “For just as the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Rev 9:1 Then the fifth angel trumpeted, and I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to earth. The key to the bottomless pit was given to him. Rev 9:2 He opened the pit, and smoke rose from the pit like the smoke of a gigantic furnace. The sun and the air were darkened by the smoke from the pit. Rev 9:3 Then from the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given to them like the scorpions have power over the earth. Rev 9:4 They were told to do no harm to the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only the people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. Rev 9:5 And they were permitted not to kill them, but to torment them for five months—and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a person. Rev 9:6 In those days, people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will flee from them.
Again – man will be face to face with the archon – just as the days before the flood Most me will fall into fear – because they simple don’t understand what is happening
Those of us who know – understand our enemy – they are not gods – they are pathetic creatures that have no power over us – other than deception
Run them up on a pole – for all to see Expose them for who they are – doomed and ignorant beings that only think they are in control through their own arrogance
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 17:29:21 GMT -5
I will post more on these thoughts, nice answers Dave D They promote satan from a servant of God to a free willing God hating evil godSO I take it this is done by removing certain books from the so called Canon? But aren't we supposed to begin with Moses torah? Don't we both have complete copies of Moses torah? I do not read your ideas from Moses torah? However I do see your point? How do you know the Gnostic writings were removed? How do you know these writings are inspired? We know torah is inspired because it makes prophecy with 100% accuracy. Have you studied prophecies in Gnostic writings? Are they 100% correct? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 28, 2020 11:22:10 GMT -5
D They promote satan from a servant of God to a free willing God hating evil god SO I take it this is done by removing certain books from the so called Canon? How do you know the Gnostic writings were removed
You should really take a church history class Rome’s war against “heresies” is well documented
(Wiki) Against Heresies, or On the Detection and Overthrow of the So-Called Gnosis, sometimes referred to by its Latin title Adversus Haereses, is a work of Christian theology written in Greek about the year 180 by Irenaeus, the bishop of Lugdunum (now Lyon in France. In it, Irenaeus identifies and describes several schools of Gnosticism, as well as other schools of Christian thought, and contrasts their beliefs with his conception of orthodox Christianity.
Until the discovery of the Library of Nag Hammadi in 1945, Against Heresies was the best surviving contemporary description of Gnosticism. Today, the treatise remains historically important as one of the first unambiguous attestations of the canonical gospel texts and some of the Pauline epistles.
Irenaeus' primary goal in writing Against Heresies was to attack rival Christian sects that he deemed heretical, mainly the Gnostics and Marcionites. In particular, he sought to disprove what he saw as incorrect interpretations of scripture on the part of Gnostics such as Valentinus
Irenaeus cites from most of the New Testament canon, as well as the noncanonical works 1 Clement and The Shepherd of Hermas;
Have you reads these books - Ireneaus says they should be canon
Who is Valentinus
(Wiki) Valentinus (also spelled Valentinius; c. AD 100 – c. 160) was the best known and, for a time, most successful early Christian gnostic theologian. He founded his school in Rome. According to Tertullian, Valentinus was a candidate for bishop but started his own group when another was chosen.
Valentinus produced a variety of writings, but only fragments survive, largely those embedded in refuted quotations in the works of his opponents,
(Wiki) Apocryphon of John - History A book called the Apocryphon of John was referred to by Irenaeus in Adversus Haereses, written about 185, among "an indescribable number of secret and illegitimate writings, which they themselves have forged, to bewilder the minds of foolish people, who are ignorant of the true scriptures"
Please explain to me why the prayer of Paul is heresy
The Prayer of the Apostle Paul - The Nag Hammadi Library Translation by Dieter Mueller
(Approximately two lines are missing.) ... your light, give me your mercy! My Redeemer, redeem me, for I am yours; the one who has come forth from you. You are my mind; bring me forth! You are my treasure house; open for me! You are my fullness; take me to you! You are (my) repose; give me the perfect thing that cannot be grasped!
I invoke you, the one who is and who pre-existed in the name which is exalted above every name, through Jesus Christ, the Lord of Lords, the King of the ages; give me your gifts, of which you do not repent, through the Son of Man, the Spirit, the Paraclete of truth. Give me authority when I ask you; give healing for my body when I ask you through the Evangelist, and redeem my eternal light soul and my spirit. And the First-born of the Pleroma of grace -- reveal him to my mind!
Grant what no angel eye has seen and no archon ear (has) heard, and what has not entered into the human heart which came to be angelic and (modelled) after the image of the psychic God when it was formed in the beginning, since I have faith and hope. And place upon me your beloved, elect, and blessed greatness, the First-born, the First-begotten, and the wonderful mystery of your house; for yours is the power and the glory and the praise and the greatness for ever and ever. Amen.
Prayer of Paul (the) Apostle., In Peace., Christ is holy.
The Apostle Paul is guilty of writing heresy - why
But aren't we supposed to begin with Moses torah? Don't we both have complete copies of Moses torah? I do not read your ideas from Moses torah? However I do see your point?
OK – and the religion of the Torah – Judaism – has no God hating satan god And Ezk 28 is all about a man – or man in general
? How do you know these writings are inspired? How do YOU know the Gospel of Luke and Matthew are inspired You know – because our fathers have declared them so Do Luke and Mathew agree on the Birth of Christ – NO – they deffer by as much as 12 years Mathew says Jesus was born in the reign of King Herod Luke says it was at least 6 years after Herod’s death
We over look this – or you are even afraid to look at this – why – because our fathers have told us it OK It close enough – it is canon –
But here we have ONE copy of a The Apocryphon of John A copy we know is rough – and weak in places – and hidden from Rome – by First Century Christians
We know torah is inspired because it makes prophecy with 100% accuracy. Yet – you are OK with Ellen White canceling the end times prophesies for Israel – it is all spiritually Christian – 1948 is not Prophetic – the Battel of Ezk 38 is imaginary – or happened in 70 AD
Have you studied prophecies in Gnostic writings? Are they 100% correct? What do you call a prophesy The Nag Hammadi speaks of the end-of-days – those predictions have not happened yet
What about
The Apocalypse of Peter - The Nag Hammadi Library Translated by James Brashler and Roger A. Bullard
… And when I said these things, the Savior said, "I have told you that these (people) are blind and deaf. Now then, listen to the things which they are telling you in a mystery, and guard them, Do not tell them to the sons of this age. For they shall blaspheme you in these ages since they are ignorant of you, but they will praise you in knowledge."
"For many will accept our teaching in the beginning. And they will turn from them again by the will of the Father of their error, because they have done what he wanted. And he will reveal them in his judgment, i.e., the servants of the Word. But those who became mingled with these shall become their prisoners, since they are without perception. And the guileless, good, pure one they push to the worker of death, and to the kingdom of those who praise Christ in a restoration. And they praise the men of the propagation of falsehood, those who will come after you. And they will cleave to the name of a dead man, thinking that they will become pure. But they will become greatly defiled and they will fall into a name of error, and into the hand of an evil, cunning man and a manifold dogma, and they will be ruled without law."
"For some of them will blaspheme the truth and proclaim evil teaching. And they will say evil things against each other. Some will be named: (those) who stand in (the) strength of the archons, …
Crusades - Catholic vrs Protestants – 30 year’s war – Inquisition – Now Protestant vrs Protestant
"And there shall be others of those who are outside our number who name themselves bishop and also deacons, as if they have received their authority from God. They bend themselves under the judgment of the leaders. Those people are dry canals."
Bishops – decons – POPES – able to move the Sabbath by their own authority
Is this a prophesy – has it come true?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 13:35:55 GMT -5
A very interesting read Dave. Maybe I will have to do some reading about history, and get back to you. So you are saying GOD cannot preserve His books from the hands of so called Christian Roman Editors? That the millions of readers all over the world are deceived? So I read the Gnostic writings because the Torah writings are not complete? If GOD was able to preserve the Hebrew, even ancient Hebrew script among so called scribes, some supporters of God, some were not, and the exact copies are more or less perfect after thousands of years, is GOD not also able to preserve the correct books for us humans to read? You note both torah and Gnostic writings survive the dead sea scrolls. You might be right? I am not sure, but as you say the Gnostic writings are fuzzy as translations as a whole, even though some passages are nice. This is written by the NT writers concerning our Jewish heritage: Ac 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. I also note comparing Hebrew to Greek, the vast loss of Hebrew meanings, when translating the Hebrew into Greek, maybe GOD intended it this way: Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. The Greeks who read Greek bibles still do not hear. SO maybe, GOD has reduced the Jewish/Gnostic writings down to a smaller polished Roman edit on purpose, so smaller brains in English have no excuse not to worship God? At this point, I am not sure anymore of Gnostic writings, I keep an open mind. I pray your understanding of Gnostic writings does not make you lose your salvation. You have a good heart, and your patient with me. I think I will have to do some deeper reading and some history and get back to you. But I find this kind of thing flawed, because Scripture is not to be tested in this way: We are to study writings based on Moses torah, which we do have: I will study Moses torah deeper and see if Gnostic writings match it perfectly. We have battled some Moses torah already, and you dismiss these ideas. I like the prophecy you point out in Gnosticism. Shalom
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 13:40:59 GMT -5
Just a thought, is there any torah person in the OT, quoting a Gnostic writing, for some purpose?
Maybe Moses quotes Gnostic words?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 28, 2020 17:40:34 GMT -5
Maybe I will have to do some reading about history, and get back to you.Honestly – your history is weakThe struggle between Egypt and Rome is important The struggle to canonize the Bible was a blood fest of who is more right The Catholic Church has much to repent about Great Question - If GOD was able to preserve the Hebrew, even ancient Hebrew scriptBut unable to safe guard the NT, or the NT Gospel, or the epistles – or the gnostic text Richard and I have argued this around a campfire – what it the difference between the text The Torah was given to man by God through Moses – no one questions the TorahThe rest of the Tanak was written by prophets – men retelling of their experiences with God There was much debate about your Ezekiel among the Rabbis – more than any other Tanak scroll Why – Ezekiel got the rules for the temple wrong – and for a Jew – this is a big deal The second most criticized scroll was Zechariah - without punctuation – and vowels – it is a difficult book to comprehend – even for the sages Now we get to the NT Gospels – were they given to us by God – doesn’t say thatThey were written by the disciples and men who knew the disciples (Luke) Why are there are four Gospels instead of seven – four told the story – the other three were provocative Who gets to decide? – Rome Paul wrote 3 letters to Corinth – why do we only have two? Because it discusses Paul journey through the 10 heavens – much like Enoch John is cherished in the NT – except for his other writings – why? Peter, Paul, and James all make it onto both lists – agl canon and heresy – why? Why was the Prayer of Paul rejected – because it speaks of the archon I posted it – you read it – what’s wrong with it?It is not a matter of canon It is not a matter of is it inspired It is 100% - edit the archon from the story - do not read it - do not know it - banned
Why – because the archon / satan if you must has usurped the faith Hiding the truth of the enemy while at the same time elevating an angel in the service to the Lord to the satan a god of evil So you are saying GOD cannot preserve His books from the hands of so called Christian Roman Editors?1- the Torah was given to man by God 2- the Gospel is an oral message – written down later by manNow our fathers – whom we trust – have told us that the 66 book are inspired Sure – Ok – Richard will argue that it says exactly what it is supposed to say in each translation Why? – because – AMBIGUITY is by designWhat does that mean – admit it – without the history – you could boil all the commandments and prophesies down into a very short book – an abridged version – just the highlights Why four Gospels – why not one? Answer - AMBIGUITY is by design1Th 5:16 Rejoice always, 1Th 5:17 pray constantly, 1Th 5:18 in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Messiah Yeshua. 1Th 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit, 1Th 5:20 do not despise prophetic messages, 1Th 5:21 but test all things, hold fast to what is good, 1Th 5:22 keep away from every kind of evil. 1Th 5:23 Now may the God of shalom Himself make you completely holy; and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept complete, blameless at the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah. Understanding come via the spirit – the Comforter – the teacher who will teach us all things (that we need to now) – Gnosic Sophia the Goddess of Wisdom – Jewish shekinah – the spirit of God that mingles amoung the people So I read the Gnostic writings because the Torah writings are not complete? The Torah is a short history and a set of commandments / laws – with a promise The Torah is not the Tanak – the agl – or a physics text book The Nag Hammadi – was written by First Century Jews – with a Jewish perspective – YES! It is clearly Jewish millions of readers all over the world are deceived?Look around my friend – is the world on the right path? (Spiritually)You note both torah and Gnostic writings survive the dead sea scrolls. Clarification1- The complete Torah and some of the Tanak – not all of it as we have it today Isaiah is complete – word for word - agree 2- 16 small fragmants with words that “might” come from a NT passage IS NOT PROOF that the Dead Sea Scrolls validate the agl 3- The Nag Hammadi was not found in the Dead Sea Scrolls4- Gnostic texts do include – Enoch (pushed into Gnosticism because it has no home) Also – the Book of Creation – the Book of Giants – and the War Scroll And don’t forget the Copper Scroll – that Netanyahu just refused ownership of You might be right? I am not sure, but as you say the Gnostic writings are fuzzy as translations as a whole, even though some passages are nice.Agree – yet we must consider the source – and the condition All we have – is what we have Written and hidden for the generation of the end-of-daysI asked you once – if the disciple Peter wrote a personal letter to the disciple Phillip – would you be interested in it You said yesIt is in the Nag Hammadi – why does the source – prevent even looking at it? I also note comparing Hebrew to Greek, the vast loss of Hebrew meanings, when translating the Hebrew into Greek, maybe GOD intended it this way:Richard would say – AMBIGUITY is by designIt is not supposed to be easy – we have to weed our way through this corporeal man made archon domain of religion – as well as – the real contest between our inner selves (Soul) and our animal selves Plus all the outside manipulation by a million different corporeal factors I also note comparing Hebrew to Greek, the vast loss of Hebrew meanings, when translating the Hebrew into Greek,And this is why I resist your idea of translating the Greek back into Hebrew before translating it into English – it is just layer after layer of addition potential error – I’ll stick to the mosr original I have available – Greek SO maybe, GOD has reduced the Jewish/Gnostic writings down to a smaller polished Roman edit on purpose, so smaller brains in English have no excuse not to worship God?OOOOOH – InterestingReduction process = edit In this edit – who is elevated to godhood and who is diminished And the legacy of 2000 yrs of Catholicism is – IF SO maybe, GOD has reduced the Jewish/Gnostic writings down to a smaller polished Roman edit on purpose Agree – but it is not YHWY – God the Creator – it is a pseudo god pretending he is in control The god of the Catholic Church – FYI – did you know that there is a statue of Saint Peter – the First Pope – in the Vatican It used to be the statue of the god Saturn in another temple – Rome just took the statue At this point, I am not sure anymore of Gnostic writings, I keep an open mind.My intent is not to cause doubt in Christ or God – just the established organized satan centric religionPersonal confession – summer 1974 – under the influence of more than one illegal substance – I had an experience – something that has ‘haunted me’ - / - bothered me all these years Actually – it hasn’t been until recently that I have come to complete terms with it Today – I would confess – I encountered a ‘shadow person’ Google it – a jinn – a demon – a dark spirit I would love to tell you that I saw Christ or received revelation from an angel – and I am so jealous of people who say this But that is not my story – my church thought me nutsI will never again DOUBT someone who says they saw somethingLater in my church in Colorado 2002 – June Hill has a similar experience I was on the church board – was I prepared to be strong enough to help? Here we go – real spiritual Christianity in action And our pastor thought her to be nuts Hey Christians - Do we believe this stuff or what? I like the prophecy you point out in Gnosticism. Makes you wonder why Rome didn’t think it canon worthy?Phillip says – you do not need the church for communion All you need is the spirit and the word
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Post by Dave on Sept 28, 2020 17:49:39 GMT -5
Just a thought, is there any torah person in the OT, quoting a Gnostic writing, for some purpose? Maybe Moses quotes Gnostic words? The problem with this = Gnostic words did not come into play until 2000 years after Moses The closest would be King Solomon - who was given knowledge directy from the heavens and wrote of Belzebul, Lillith, and the demons - 72 of them he names and discribes But - it is Kabbalah - not Tanak Judaism's very own gnostic section - ha
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Post by Dave on Sept 29, 2020 12:38:51 GMT -5
Dear Robert This last few exchanges have been valuable Our time has been valuable – for me – make me study – I like it I have never (I hope anyway) to treat you lightly – I try to answer everything and answer it to the best of my abilities
I cannot help it – it is who I am Usually I wear people out – can you relate? I am a manic depressive – sometimes I get excited talking about my Lord that my energy spoils my message in person – can you relate?
I have been gifted – blessed I took Greek in High School because I hated public speaking – amazing I ran away from college to the Military – to escape growing up – to escape my family disappointment for dropping out of college But I found myself with a very strange group of guys in Yokohama Japan - murders – killers – troubled guys – what did we do – I started a NT Greek class – a local Catholic priest and some Japanese eventually joined us
When my orders came up for Viet Nam – I was asked if I would mind staying in Japan – OK 4 years USMC – 13 month in Okinawa – and another 31 months in mainland Japan I never fired a bullet
In High School – Boston Mass – I fell hard for the lord – manically too hard So hard – that I only felt the guilt of being an animal I did too many drugs – too many times – it is lucky I didn’t do 10 years for possession In the Marine Corps – I translated NT Greek – that keeps you focused and feeling the grace
But as a manic depressive – I have successfully crashed and burned – in a 10 yr cycles Nice – it is all behind me – only one – maybe two cycles left I am retired – all I do is Ponder my Lord
You are just 2hrs – (sometimes 6) of my day I have so many projects going on – sometime I shut down I pull open your post – and initially think – here we go again (being honest) But as I begin to respond – I become energized My girls worry about me
I type type type – then stand up and pace – then sit back down and pound the keyboard The girls ask – are you mad at him? – NO – I am just excited at what I am saying I am witness for the Lord – it makes me alive
It is never a burden – it is always refreshment
POINT – we have covered a lot – especially these past 90 days Even if we had to get mad at each other to do it – our conversation has changed in tone – grown
COOL – let’s stop
Let’s stop beating a dead horse – let it rest for a while – ferment – digest – Ponder
Point – GNOSTIC – is just a word I chose to separate myself from anything Catholic or Presbyterian I am a Messianic Jew – that is not Jewish
Point – Gnosticism is not a dirty word – and Gnosticism of the Nag Hammadi is not the ancient gnostic Simon Magnus crap – it just all gets lumped together by Roman Christendom and labeled gnostic The Nag Hammadi authors do not call themselves Gnostic – they call themselves Christian
Point – The Roman Edit is real and has a tremendous impact on Christendom
Point – Reality is so much more complicated that we are told Why is this a really big point? – For centuries things have evolved at a slow pace The degree of progress by man between Babble and 1700AD is minimal My grandparents – thought coal powered trains and sailing ships were cutting edge I did not have a phone in our house until 1963 And today – we know for sure - Reality is so much more complicated that we were told Today – churches don’t run around speaking of demons like they once did WHY – we are more enlightened today – and if the demons were demons = then satan would be satan – and the deception no longer works Today – the archon at=re the Nephilim – that have never completely left – they are here to cause deception If we find life on another planet = evolution true – creation false – this is deception today As a gnostic – I think there is a lot of life – past present and future all over the heavens
In all of this I praise God for His creation and His Son – the Divine Pardon I praise God for little Jimmy – how many people stopped and considered their own Yom Kippur If little Jimmy death cause anyone to doubt God is Love only Then the doctrine of God is Love only is unsatisfactory – causes harm – detrimental to the cause All doubters ask – if God is love then why all the pain and suffering
Our mission – our purpose – the meaning of life – to remember and reveal God’s Glory to all creation We are prophets onto all the nations
Could Eve fulfill this mission in Paradise? She and Adam stepped into this world – to complete their mission Did it come with the consequence of mortal death – Yes – as soon as Adam and Eve stepped into creation – entropy was at play
There was a WAR in Eden and God wared with Adam and Eve and they found themselves no more in the paradise of Eden – and Adam and Eve were cast into archon land where they could no longer see the angels in heaven – but only things close at hand that is brutish (1st Adam and Eve chp 8)
Was this a war? As in tanks and guns and bombs? NO! It was a scuffle – a fuss – Eve did her thing and God said – get out – and it was over
The Real Point - enjoying this conversation – I would like to change topics For over a year were have been discussing the archon and satan
You believe him to be a free willing god of evil that usurped God’s Will I think the beast is a miscarriage of creation – and there is a race / group of selfish beings
I think spiritualism is totally based / dependent upon spirit You deny the spirit – you cannot even fathom how Christ can be in two hearts at the same time
You say – God cannot create spirit Yet you credit satan as the father of almost everything and he rules all men (except you)
You have a pantheon of multiple gods I only have one true Creator – who is a trinity
Let’s change the subject 1- I would really love to discuss the predeluvian world with you 2- Or - I would love to hear your thoughts on predestination vrs free will 3- Or – teach me who is Allah and what of Islam
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 14:13:48 GMT -5
D: "Paul wrote 3 letters to Corinth – why do we only have two? Because it discusses Paul journey through the 10 heavens – much like Enoch
John is cherished in the NT – except for his other writings – why? Peter, Paul, and James all make it onto both lists – agl canon and heresy – why? Why was the Prayer of Paul rejected – because it speaks of the archon
I posted it – you read it – what’s wrong with it?
Nothing I can see, but you raise iinteresting points. Can I read the orginal prayer of Paul, in the Hebrew? Would Paul pray in Hebrew or Greek? Do you have the Hebrew or Greek word behind this translation in "archon" ?
For example:
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
what is the translated word "godhead" in Hebrew? How do we know this translated word is even correct?
I feel "archon" is an invented word, like "godhead" is. Some of our words come from translations with biased ideas.
Other example is "Shadday" translated as "almighty". It's bad. Why do translators do this? Because they did not like the idea of GOD being female, that's why. SO the HS is a mother like function and is female like, but our maculine male translators did not like this idea.
So I find your "archon" word in Paul's prayer is not really there, but I am open minded still, and willing to investigate your theory on this idea.
R: So you are saying GOD cannot preserve His books from the hands of so called Christian Roman Editors? D: 1- the Torah was given to man by God 2- the Gospel is an oral message – written down later by man
R: Are you sure the Gospel in oral?
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
The torah predicts the torah goes out in another tongue, ie Greek.
D: "Why? – because – AMBIGUITY is by design R : Why not VARIETY by design? That is a functional aspect of GOD?
Are there not 12 functional ways to love, and 4 personality traits, making 48 styles of loving in mankind? Collective love has variety. Human see love from different angles.
D: "2- 16 small fragmants with words that “might” come from a NT passage IS NOT PROOF that the Dead Sea Scrolls validate the agl 3- The Nag Hammadi was not found in the Dead Sea Scrolls
R : Arrh yes, but enough evidence that Jews were copying the Greek NT by AD 55 already, except maybe JOhn Revelation, written later.
D The Nag Hammadi was not found in the Dead Sea Scrolls,
R: Than maybe you should leave the book alone?
D: "I asked you once – if the disciple Peter wrote a personal letter to the disciple Phillip – would you be interested in it You said yes
R: I would love to read it? How can you be sure though it was written by Peter to Phillip? The NT Greek 16 fragments all suggest that common NT scrolls were copied by Jews as early as AD 55. Maybe GOD decided to leave out some writings, so they did not get copied by the people seeking God?
D: "And this is why I resist your idea of translating the Greek back into Hebrew before translating it into English – it is just layer after layer of addition potential error – I’ll stick to the mosr original I have available – Greek
R: Well the torah makes a prophecy:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
The NT torah is written in another tongue, from Hebrew to Greek.
SO if you want to find GOD's message better, translate the Greek back to Hebrew, than to English. You have to, otherwise the OT torah cannot talk harmony to the NT torah. torah means rains, Jesus wrote the former rain and the latter rains, didn't He?
R: "SO maybe, GOD has reduced the Jewish/Gnostic writings down to a smaller polished Roman edit on purpose
D: "Agree – but it is not YHWY – God the Creator – it is a pseudo god pretending he is in control The god of the Catholic Church –
FYI – did you know that there is a statue of Saint Peter – the First Pope – in the Vatican It used to be the statue of the god Saturn in another temple – Rome just took the statue
R: Yes but some Roman Catholics do love GOD as best as they know, sure the system is pagan, false and deceiving, but some scholars did love GOD correctly.
The collection of scrolls copied by Jews from AD 55, is the torah OT and NT as 66 books as we know it. It was chosen by Jews not Catholics. Modern minds have less IQ than 1000 years ago, our minds are weaker, so maybe the HS sees it OK to reduce the salvation world of Gnosis down, make it more simple, but not simpler.
D :"Hey Christians - Do we believe this stuff or what? R: the sinning angels are normally not allowed to show themselves to us, just as GOD is not allowed to sow Himself to us in personal shape, but if you follow the archon too much, GOD will respect your choice, and grant you more freedom to allow archonic deception into your life. So yes sinning angels appearing as "things" is real.
D: "Phillip says – you do not need the church for communion All you need is the spirit and the word R : really?
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
D: "Let’s change the subject 1- I would really love to discuss the predeluvian world with you 2- Or - I would love to hear your thoughts on predestination vrs free will 3- Or – teach me who is Allah and what of Islam
R My favourite subject is 4- The science of salvation. How do we get more and more of Jesus into our daily lives? My entire website is devoted to this theme. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 30, 2020 6:26:13 GMT -5
Ro 1:20 Godhead what is the translated word "godhead" in Hebrew? How do we know this translated word is even correct? Other example is "Shadday" translated as "almighty". It's bad. Why do translators do this? Because they did not like the idea of GOD being female, that's why. SO the HS is a mother like function and is female like, but our maculine male translators did not like this idea. Agree – so – even the ahl is not 100% “perfect” – there is some evidence of translation bias Small – unimportant to the larger reality – yet it is present The ahl is also not perfect as to other detail – Ezekiel got the Temple instruction wrong according to the Torah – Oops! Small – unimportant to the larger reality – yet it is present I feel "archon" is an invented word, like "godhead" is. Some of our words come from translations with biased ideas. OK – I have said this over and over – but you just seems so resistant you refuse to listenThe Greek word archie = fist – as in a period of time or position The First in line – or in the first of time = in the deginning The King = the first among men = the authority / ruler The judges, governors, provincial leaders, magistrates, and gods are all = authorities/rulers OF THEIR OWN AREA OF RESPONSIBILITY The King of Persian is not the King of the world – he just thinks he is The King of Tyre is not the King of the world – he just thinks he is Now – in the Nag Hammadi – wait for it Archon is used as a colloquialism for all bad-guy angelic beings Because they are authorities/rulers of their own domain – their own area of responsibility So I find your "archon" word in Paul's prayer is not really there, but I am open minded still, and willing to investigate your theory on this idea.This is your solution for everything counter to your doctrine – just deny it Doesn’t matter if it is either ahl scripture – agl scripture - or science – or historyD: 1- the Torah was given to man by God 2- the Gospel is an oral message – written down later by manR: Are you sure the Gospel in oral?Please show me the writings of Jesus Christ Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.Speak is oral – not written The torah predicts the torah goes out in another tongue, ie Greek.I can show you the words that Jesus spoke – remembered and written by his disciples Please show me the writings of Jesus ChristD: "Why? – because – AMBIGUITY is by design R : Why not VARIETY by design? That is a functional aspect of GOD?Variety = multiple answers to be found Ambiguity = only one correct answer to be found in a maze of confusionD: "2- 16 small fragmants with words that “might” come from a NT passage IS NOT PROOF that the Dead Sea Scrolls validate the agl 3- The Nag Hammadi was not found in the Dead Sea Scrolls R : Arrh yes, but enough evidence that Jews were copying the Greek NT by AD 55 already, except maybe JOhn Revelation, written later. The collection of scrolls copied by Jews from AD 55, is the torah OT and NT as 66 books as we know it. It was chosen by Jews not Catholics. I have no idea of your point here – what does this sentence mean? The Jews selected the Gospels and Paul for the NT – not Catholics? If you are saying all 66 books were found together in the Dead Sea Scrolls – you are just wrongIf you are saying that all 44 books of the Tanak were found together - you are just wrong If you are saying that the 39 books of the OT were found together - you are just wong www.uhl.ac/new-testament-among-dead-sea-scrolls/The Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN) published an interview that they made with me last winter. The fact that only snippets were actually aired and published has led to some misunderstandings. There was one snippet, in particular, which could lead the audience to believe that I was stating that New Testament manuscripts were found at Qumran. The quote goes like this: “We asked why the Dead Sea Scrolls were so important to us today. Pfann said, ‘because they confirm the Bible that we have. There’s variants, but basically it’s [that] you can barely tell the difference between the two texts, [the one] that we have in Qumran and in our Bibles.’ ” This quote is correct but lacks the full context for that statement. And I do see how it can be easily misunderstood. I was asked by Chris Mitchell of CBN if the New Testament was found at Qumran. I replied “No”. The posited Gospel of Mark fragment from cave 7 remains unconvincing. There are manuscripts that have similar language to the New Testament (such as the so-called “Son of God text”) which confirm that parallels to certain unusual titles and statements did in fact exist. However, there are no quotes from the New Testament among the scrolls.D The Nag Hammadi was not found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, R: Than maybe you should leave the book alone?The Gospels were not found in the Dead Sea Scrolls None of Paul was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls Not all of the Tanak was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls Just how much scripture are you willing to throw away?R: Yes but some Roman Catholics do love GOD as best as they know, sure the system is pagan, false and deceiving, but some scholars did love GOD correctly. So did some head hunters in Boreno Ambiguity = only one correct answer to be found in a maze of confusionD: "Phillip says – you do not need the church for communion All you need is the spirit and the wordR : really?Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. OK – Please explain to me how Fellowship = means going to church to receive communion from a priest
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Post by Dave on Sept 30, 2020 10:02:12 GMT -5
Robert – I want to play these words back to you – so you can read them as if someone else wrote themD: " Phillip says – you do not need the church for communion All you need is the spirit and the wordR : really? Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. Do you even realize what you are endorsing?Did King David or John the Baptist have any religious services in the wilderness? You mandate that man bow a knee to another men in order to remember what Jesus did for us You must receive communion from a man in authority – not God I could not disagree more You endorse man-made religion – the precepts of menD: " How can God create a cow? How can God create a planet How can God create all the universe and all the galaxies – and all the planets – and all the plants ands animals But God cannot create spirit?R: Well before I answer this, you have to define what you mean by "spirit"? You cannot make spirit from matter, than according to you comes with ra. You cannot make spirit from divinity, than we have GOD splitting GOD from itself. It's much easier for me, simply I see mankind as matter only. How does God make rocks – plants – or other animals?I say – God said let there be a thing – and there was – POOF! Looks just like magic to puny little manI even joke – the only difference between religion and science is volume Science says it was a Big Bang Believers think of it more of a Poof How does God create – Poof! – there it is – and things grow and mature God created the planet earth – then it grew / matured The Rabbinic version = Adam saw the Hebrew letters falling from heaven Down came a (d) then an (o) then (g) – and as dog appeared – this is why Adam knew to name it dog Down came a (c) then an (o) then (w) – and as cow appeared – this is why Adam knew to name it cow And after he created each kind – then reproduced only after its own kind – no changing of species Dog always fathers dog – does this mean zero variation within a species – NO There are 500 types of dogs selectively bread – but every one of them is a dog Man has selective bread corn from a small knee high stalk with a single fruit To a variation today that stands 12 feet tall with a dozen or more fruit each But it is still – only corn Question – if God said let there be a thing – and poof it appears Why cannot God create spirit?You have a mental block of some kind – as if a ruler is preventing you from being serious
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2020 13:43:17 GMT -5
D: "Why cannot God create spirit? You have a mental block of some kind – as if a ruler is preventing you from being serious
R: Don't you have an answer?
Anything created has to be of matter, hence your "spirit idea" is made of matter.
Matter = E/c2
God cannot make E into E1, E2, E3, ...E123,456,405,291 etc millions of E. "spirit" is "ruwach" a term of divinity.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 30, 2020 21:52:52 GMT -5
D: "Why cannot God create spirit? You have a mental block of some kind – as if a ruler is preventing you from being serious R: Don't you have an answer? Actually – my answer was – “God said let there be a thing – and it was” I even used the juvenile term – “POOF” to make the point
Matter = E/c2 Anything created has to be of matter, hence your "spirit idea" is made of matter. I see – The Holy Spirit is a form of matter?
What type of matter is the Electromagnetic spectrum? Teach me Not radiation – not measurable photons – but the immeasurable E within the quarks What type of matter is it that are nuclear forces – both the strong and the weak What type of matter is gravity? Please teach me
Then explain to me why two sub-atomic particles separated by vast distances still suffer from quantum entanglement Please answer this question and we can share the Nobel Prize together - OK
You also forget Spirit = E/m Spirit is in a relationship with m – but the m and the c2 are two separate things
God cannot make E into E1, E2, E3, ... "spirit" is "ruwach" a term of divinity.
Isn’t this your Godhead – E1 + E2 + E3 = 3 coeternal gods You can argue it one way when it suits you Then argue the opposite when it doesn’t Which theology do you support?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2020 14:03:24 GMT -5
Dave asks : "Isn’t this your Godhead – E1 + E2 + E3 = 3 coeternal gods You can argue it one way when it suits you Then argue the opposite when it doesn’t Which theology do you support?
Daddy is that man pestering you again? I smiled when I read that writing of yours. You are lucky to have a little girl and her child like faith. God bless her.
I suppose in a way this is true:
LOVE = responder + provider in some collector.
On their own these entities cannot make LOVE flow, the parts are required as ONE function.
A battery only flows power then it's parts are in harmony. Cathode + anode in a collective solution, allows the flow power.
I see only one battery here. Not three batteries as you claim.
Having two cathodes does not make a battery better, or two anodes, or even a single cathode. The minimum number of parts is three, to make ONE battery.
The minimum number of personalities to make ONE family is also three.
Dave: "I see – The Holy Spirit is a form of matter?
R: " Notice a secular view ...:-
Wind is a medium affect. Air is the media (matter). Energy carried by the media, makes wind an affect.
Energy is NOT matter.
SO what part is wind? It's not anything here, not the media (matter), not the energy the medium carries in the media.
The medium affect is an idea to describe the way energy flows in media through space.
So what about spiritually?
The Father's flow is the energy of love. The matter is the humans who interact with His love. The medium affect is the agency for the flow of Love from the Father into the humans of matter. The medium is also not of human origin, therefore is not of matter either.
Is this medium personal, or just a force from the Father?
We know from Scripture, that the medium (ruwach) is created.
Am 4:13 For, lo, he createth <bara'> the wind <ruwach>,
So where is this "ruwach" created from?
Job 33:4 The Spirit <ruwach> of God <'el> hath made <`asah> me, and the breath <n@shamah> of the Almighty <Shadday> hath given me life <chayah>.
The SHADDAY creates the RUWACH function as a medium function for mankind.
Who is the Shadday?
Another personal function of the Eloah? No
Both the SHadday and the ELoah function as heavenly parents. Luke 1:35 has this idea
SO does Ephesians 3:15,16
SO does the idea that love in Hebrew consists of two styles of loving.
Therefore the medium affect is not made of matter, it uses matter and divinity powers yes, but is not a technical thing we can nail down so easily.
The medium affect comes from the Shadday, and is personally administrated for a reason:
Because humans wish to exercise free will to love or not love, so this affects the medium functions so a personal Being is required to adjust our missing in respect to GOD.
Hope this helps you.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Oct 1, 2020 15:03:11 GMT -5
Dave asks : "Isn’t this your Godhead – E1 + E2 + E3 = 3 coeternal gods You can argue it one way when it suits you Then argue the opposite when it doesn’t Which theology do you support? I suppose in a way this is true:You have argued this ever since we met = 3 individual gods in a pantheon On their own these entities cannot make LOVE flow, the parts are required as ONE function.I so disagree – the only thing required for love – or anything to flow Is a provider and a recipientGod loves His creation Christ love mankind The HS teaches and sustains - even the wicked Why does it require 3 individual gods to be able to love creationDave: "I see – The Holy Spirit is a form of matter? R: " Notice a secular view ...:- Wind is a medium affect. Air is the media (matter). Energy carried by the media, makes wind an affect.
Energy is NOT matter.Anything created has to be of matter, hence your " spirit idea" is made of matter. Matter = E/c2 So what about spiritually?The Father's flow is the energy of love. Yes – God alone – all by Himself lovesThe matter is the humans who interact with His love. YES! - Creation is matter – and is the recipient of God’s love The medium affect is the agency for the flow of Love from the Father into the humans of matter. YES! – SPIRIT of God = the omnipresent medium / ether that is the invisible foundation of the ALLThe medium is also not of human origin, therefore is not of matter either. YES! – SPIRIT is not of human origin – and therefore not of matter either Is this medium personal, or just a force from the Father? YES! – this Spirit – is the Spirit of God and therefore Holy in every wayWe know from Scripture, that the medium (ruwach) is created. YES! – it is the expression of God – the Word the went out from God and through whom the All was createdAm 4:13 For, lo, he createth <bara'> the wind <ruwach>, Job 33:4 The Spirit <ruwach> of God <'el> hath made <`asah> me, and the breath <n@shamah> of the Almighty <Shadday> hath given me life <chayah>. The SHADDAY creates the RUWACH function as a medium function for mankind. YES! The Spirit of God is the medium that the ALL is based upon – the ether – the matrixWho is the Shadday? The Holy Spirit – the Goddess of Wisdom – Sophia – the female expression of God – the shekinahAnother personal function of the Eloah? No YES! – this is not a new and different god Both the SHadday and the ELoah function as heavenly parents. Luke 1:35 has this idea YES! – God is the father of the All – the HS is the Womb of the AllTherefore the medium affect is not made of matter, it uses matter and divinity powers yes, but is not a technical thing we can nail down so easily. Absolutely – the SPIRIT is non-corporeal – couldn’t agree moreBecause humans wish to exercise free will to love or not love, so this affects the medium functions so a personal Being is required to adjust our missing in respect to GOD. I Have no clue what you mean hereThe Spirit of God = the omnipresent “force” that is the invisible power omnipresent everywhere The Spirit of God = the word that was spoken that rippled throughout the omnipresent matrix The Image of God is the form that these ripples throughout the matrix formed The Spirit of God is the invisible force that sustain everything at the smallest sub-atomic scale The Spirit of God is also the voice of God spoken The Spirit of God = the Holy Spirit The HS is the Comforter that will come within and teach us in communion The Spirit of God is not matter The Holy Spirit is not matter And the HS is not a separate individual god that needs help to do something
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