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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2020 16:10:20 GMT -5
D: "To Provide Pardon for those who ask R: Pardon from what?
D: "Is it a sin for a dog to grow old and die? Is it a sin to fall off a horse and die? Death – is a natural part of the cycle of live that God commission to multiply and fill the earth and be for food = all before Eve
And God looked at it and said it was tov R: Your kidding right? You're the first person I have ever met who thinks death came before Adam's sin.
D:""Everyday – do I have to remind myself that God is real and Jesus Christ was the Christ? R: I see. You do not truly understand what the Grand Rescue is for. "Hebrew word "Yasha" and its meanings of a Grand Divine Being, the Son of GOD, means a Grand Rescue.
D: "Eve chose to be a missionary for God – in the lowest world R:" I see but why would a clever functional GOD intentionally create a flawed world, and place Adamus into a body of Ra, called Adam? Just for glory... to do intentional harm?
D: "Eve is 100% tov for the lord But at infancy – she become mixed with animal and its DNA programming for self R: "I see, But if GOD is a clever functional programmer why would He create RA in the DNA code?
Do you ever see a Rolls Royce car with faulty steering built in? I drove a farm car once, the farmer assured me was legal for road driving, but the rack and pion steering lost track for a second every now and than, so you can be driving along and for a full second, no feeling of the road under you. This RA was legal, the car was passed. Yes but we live in a RA world. So its OK to intentionally create 10% lemon Rolls Royce cars, why not make 100% lemons? Would anybody pay a million dollars for a 0.1% lemon?
There are over 5 million parts on a Boeing 747, and suppose 5 parts were lemons, would it be OK to fly the plane and expect this to be declared "Very functional" ? But your saying GOD is like this?
D: "Yes – boom – God plucks you from the fire – divine pardon R: pardon from what? RA? no, RA is wired into our DNA intentionally so if I did RA, the code made me do it, not my free will.... you have made sinning robotic, because it's wired into the DNA...
In fact you have made mankind like archons, robotic wired to do RA.
D: "Satan will be there listing all our sins – but God will give us a pass in Christ R: But you don't have a Satan listing our sins? Why would a friendly angel doing a bad job of testing humans, want to list our sins of RA, if we are already programmed to do RA? You keep mixing my theory of faith with your theory of faith.
Can't GOD list our sins? Arn't they recorded in His books? So I don't see in your theory of archons why archons would be bothered with judgement?
D: "Secondly we are judge on our works R: "If I do yester tov rather than yester RA, whose works of yester tov are they? Mine or God's
Doesn't God say to Abram, he was accounted, adding up, all God's yester Tov works in Abram?
Doing so called good deeds using self, means nothing to GOD, although at least they are no yester ra, but they still are yester RA because Self is doing them. No man can serve two masters Scripture says. Baal, the human word for master lives in all of us, self or GOD. These are our choices of two masters.
D: "Third – by our Fruit – what is frut – the fruit of our mission here – helped others on their way to salvation and God – helping them to remember R: "Nice
Again it's not our fruit, but God's fruit in us.
D: "Sin is the choice between what I know I should do – and what my body wants to do R: I would not define Sin in that way.
Sin is the choice of choosing GOD or not choosing GOD. It's called missing for a reason.
In legal terms for court judgement, not choosing GOD is written as ten commandments in the royal torah. Hence GOD can judge every creature (man and angel) on these legal terms of law.
You define sin as what I should do, yester tov, rather than do what my body wants to do, yester ra.
Both elements of this doing is programmed into our DNA, according to you. Since GOD created both tov and ra into the DNA of mankind, how is this a free will choice even?
D: "What is Paul saying here Ra is in his flesh It is his flesh that does the thing he does not want to The Torah is within him – in his soul - he knows the ‘knowledge between good and evil’ – in his soul AND thanks God for Christ who will rescue me from this 3D mortal shell called animal
R: "I would disagree with you my friend here. You missed a very small word in Greek, and failed to understand the Hebrew word it was translated from.
Rom 7:17 So now it is no longer I doing it, but sin dwelling in me.
This is a pivotal verse. "but sin dwelling in me" is translated wrong.
Ro 7:17 but <alla> sin <hamartia> that dwelleth <oikeo> in <en> me <emoi>. What Hebrew word is "hamartia" ? That would have to be "chataah".
1Jo 3:5 And <kai> ye know <eido> that <hoti> he <ekeinos> was manifested <phaneroo> to <hina> take away <airo> our <hemon> sins <hamartia>; and <kai> in <en> him <autos> is <esti> no <ou> sin <hamartia>. 6 Whosoever <pas> abideth <meno> in <en> him <autos> sinneth <hamartano> not <ou>: whosoever <pas> sinneth <hamartano> hath <horao> not <ou> seen <horao> him <autos>, neither <oude> known <ginosko> him <autos>.
John plays around with Two Hebrew words "chata" and "Chataah" both written here in the Greek translation of the original Hebrew NT.
"chata" is "hamartano"... this little fact changes the entire view of Romans 7.
Paul is talking about the "sin-offerings" which the law requires for sinners doing sinning. The "sin-offering" required death to satisfy it, hence why Jesus had to die, He is the Lamb for sin-offering.
The reason why I do sinning in my body is because "sin-offering" is personified as a Ruler who rules over me, and this points to the Cross, when I spoke to you there are TWO beings of burning represented on the pole.
John points our clearly if you Gnosis Jesus correctly YADA HIM, there is no more sinning in you. This is a major claim, so do I do missing claiming the powers of Jesus in my life? Often, but John also speaks of a sin-offering not unto death. Clearly some shadows of ra I make are not unto death, these shadows are covered by Jesus, the pre-umbra shadows. I must not do umbra shadows of death, for these are evidence I have transgressed my Lord intentionally, therefore I do not YADA HIM.
There are propensities of RA in my DNA flesh, yes, but these are removed slowly over time:
Ex 23:30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee,
A parallel here from Israel enemies of RA, Jesus the messenger here drives out our RA propensities little by little, so our spirit is not spoiled by the battles. We fight the good fight of supporting Jesus power.
R: "your theory of faith removes the origin of sin, and places the origin of sin directly unto GOD. D: "NOPE! First choice to not acknowledge God as absolute = the First Archon R : please explain. Your statements are too brief.
R"Charles Darwin hated the Bible for this very reason, that GOD should design a worm to eat the eye ball of some animal D: "Perspective - is the eyeball still in a live body If yes – then this parasite – is not being evil – it is trying its best to go forth and multiply R" Dave, Charles Darwin is going to disagree with you, Darwin hated GOD because of the parasite is not evidence of a very functional world.
CMI teaches that Darwin didn't understand after man's sinned our world changed. Darwin was looking at a world flawed because of sin.
Your saying the world was created flawed, with cycles of death from the beginning, even parasites. Well this is why Darwin wrote his book, He would hate Gnosticism, because GOD is a death and parasite lover, a GOD of evil and good. Have you never compared your world before Adam Sinned, to what Charles Darwin wrote about your idea of the world. He hated the world and hated GOD for it.
CMI and myself see a totally different world, Darwin didn't and couldn't see, because it didn't exist functional in his day, but was super very functional in Adam's day, until he sinned. But you disagree with this... you mock the vegetarian sharks, the lion that eats grass, and the seeds of the grasses that never die. Since when do grasses have to make death a part of fruiting?
If it took 33 years for Adam and Eve to choose sin, than the world they lived in had only redbrown soil, no decomposers, no black stuff, no rain, no snow, no volcanoes, no earthquakes, no grasses cycled or recycled, they just lived as they were created for 33 years. And if nobody ate their seeds, the grass would stop making seeds until a herbivore ate them, and no dung ever fell to the ground, all fibre was soluble, nothing remained in the food when eaten. Trees grew tall using silica around their bodies, not cellulose as some claim, a product of death. There was no death in Eden.
we have glimpses of such perfection in our fallen world today.... no need to doubt this perfection?
D: "Dave would come back with Just because God made the ra doesn’t prove He does the ra James tells us – God has a staff for that R: Other people are no going to see it like you present here. If I place wired DNA changes in a person and that person murders as a result, the creator is guilty of the murder, not the person under the influence. It's called crime by association.
As I told you, but you don't see this, GOD only engineers RA so sinners can see themselves sinning. Shadow experiment, that you don't understand. How can I get a shadow at all unless their is light?
R: So everything bad was created also by GOD.... D: NO – not exactly God did not create rape R: Sorry rape, incest adultery and fornication are sexual RA forms. When GOD says "no adultery" as a commandment, this implies GOD hates RA.
R: "This verse destroys your argument. God can design animals to live in peace. D: "This verse has nothing to do with the days of creation – and everything to do with a FUTURE event R: "OK future event. So GOD can create all tov perfect, no ra, no sin. Great. Why didn't God do this for mankind in our Creation?
D: "Answer – I do not know what we will be like or what it will be like R: no wonder you are confused?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Oct 10, 2020 22:07:00 GMT -5
R"Charles Darwin CMI teaches that Darwin didn't understand after man's sinned our world changed. Darwin was looking at a world flawed because of sin. CMI and myself see a totally different world, Darwin didn't and couldn't see, because it didn't exist functional in his day, but was super very functional in Adam's day, until he sinned. If it took 33 years for Adam and Eve to choose sin, than the world they lived in had only redbrown soil, no decomposers, no black stuff, no rain, no snow, no volcanoes, no earthquakes, no grasses cycled or recycled, they just lived as they were created for 33 years. And if nobody ate their seeds, the grass would stop making seeds until a herbivore ate them, and no dung ever fell to the ground, all fibre was soluble, nothing remained in the food when eaten. Trees grew tall using silica around their bodies, not cellulose as some claim, a product of death. But you disagree with this... you mock the vegetarian sharks, the lion that eats grass, and the seeds of the grasses that never die. Since when do grasses have to make death a part of fruiting?YES! I DO – and very loudly – and deliberatelyAll of these ideas are 100% creationist – I yield that they are And all of these ideas must make the following assumptions1- time is linear 2- planet earth went from form and void to what it looks like today – magically 3- 24hr days – existed in the past - as we measure them today 4- this planet has always been the same diameter 5- and the way man measure the past is flawed 6- The Flood is relegated to Dr Walter Brown – whom I know well All of these assumptions MUST be true – or creationism does not hold water as presented Thus is exactly what CRI is called a pseudoscience – because it isn’t real scienceYou have told me over and over – God cannot violate His own Laws I agree when it pertains to math and physics – The 3 Laws of motion – the laws of Thermodynamics Even Einstein’s relativity 1- time is linearNo such animal as liner tine – outside of our proximity – space/time becomes confusion because -C2 – (2) is an exponent and exponents always graph a curve – never a straight line Space/time is a variable - - time is a variable If you believe scripture – God can alter time – stopped time for Joshua – and made time rin backwards for Hezekiah Einstein proves it – satellites prove it – space craft prove it The assumption of ‘time is linear’ is a flawed argument2- planet earth went from form and void to what it looks like today – magicallyYou have told me over and over – God cannot violate His own Laws Science can only speak to the thing that are observable – measurable As we look through our telescopes – what do we see Psa 19:2 (TLV) The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky shows His handiwork. As we look through our telescopes – what do we see We observe other planets forming in an seeming infinite universe The process from – without form and void – to today’s earth was a long and complex process I side with Psa 19:1 WHY – Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse— Rom 1:21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. Instead, their thinking became futile, and their senseless hearts were made dark. God’s handiwork is clearly visible to man – But – instead of falling to the knees in praise – they invent terms like ‘Intelligent Design’ Or adopt evolutionWEDD and WEDT both support the Nebular Theory 3- 24hr days – existed in the past - as we measure them todayThere are several good answers to this – but I will focused on4- this planet has always been the same diameterTHIS IS A HUGE QUESTION?Has planet earth always been the same size? THE ANSWER = NOAll the evidence suggest that planet earth was much larger – in the past If – earth was any different diameter – at any time – the rotate rate would have been different that 24hrs 1 day today doesn’t = 24hrs How Long Is One DayNASA Space Place ...spaceplace.nasa.gov … a day is to count the amount of time it takes for a planet to completely spin around and make one full rotation. This is called a sidereal day. On Earth, a sidereal day is almost exactly 23 hours and 56 minutes. The Dam From China That Slowed The Rotation Of The Earth ...medium.com › the-dam-from-china-that-slowed-the-rot... Sep 15, 2020 The Three Gorges Dam built across the Yangtze River in Hubei province was first proposed in 1919 by the provisional first president of the ... If the earth was larger as some of us believe – it would have rotated at a different rate IF the earth was only 65% of its current diameter - it would have rotated at a different rate5- and the way man measures the past is flawedHere we agree – but for entirely different reasons Creationism says the science is wrong I say the math makes an unrealistic assumption How do we date the past Carbon 14 and Carbon 12 are available to us at a constant amount each time we breathe- true Carbon 14 decays at a steady rate - true So – the ratio of c14 to c12 in our bones = age – TRUE Here is the flaw – The only way this works = Carbon 14 and Carbon 12 are available to us at a constant amountQuestion – Carbon 14 dating is excellent to about 12,000 years – then begins to fail – WHY? Answer – about 12,000 years ago the ration of c14 to c12 was different – simple To go beyond 12,000 years – science starts using other isotopes – Strontium But they use the same flawed assumption that the amounts of strontium has always been the same as today What happens to their time line – it begins to telescopeLinear 1yr + 1yr +1yr becomes 12,000 then 100,000 then 1 million - and 5 million then 100 million Man can date thing pretty accurately for the last 4000 yrs – then the margin of error grows by 100s of years Why – because Earth reached it current size about 4000 years ago and hasn’t changed much sinceWHAT – you sayThis is WEDD – Whole Earth Decompression DynamicsAnd my addition to it – FD-WEDT – the Fluid Dynamics of Whole Earth Decompression Theory In 25 words or less – all of the continental shelves fit across the Atlantic all of the continental shelves also fir across the Pacific The concept of a super continent ‘Island Pangea’ is impossible as presented Planet earth is a rotating body – it must be harmonically balanced A top will not spin with all the weight pushed to one side The only ways ‘Island Pangea’ is possible is if it straddled a pole It is never presented this way – because it contradicts their method to explain how these continents swam all around the globe Ooops!WEDD and WEDT say – is was not water world earth with ‘Island Pangea’ but ‘Planetoid Pangea’- with no oceans – Pacific gap closed + Atlantic gap closed A smaller – but completely rocky crust planetoid – like every other planet / rock / planetoid we know of AND this rocky Planetoid Pangea was at the center of a Jupiter sizes gas giant – protoplanet There were no oceans – only for rivers that circumnavigated the globe There was no rain – complete different atm / pressures / gravity All the plants watered from the ground up – artesian springs abound – consistent with pressures And the Gas Giant atm = the firmament above – the waters above Earth remained like this until the Flood of Noah And the earth was filled with biology of all kinds I have so much evidence I would bore you to death – but – look at this map of dino herds You will never have an explanation of why they are all L shaped territories The answer is so easy Place these continents onto Planetoid Pangea and they straighten out into latitudes Herd A is found at latitude 32 north (me)– must be their favorite temperature zone Herd B – is further south at latitude 11 north (my wife) – must be their zone Herd C – is further south at 20 south (you) – and that where they lived Man came around later on day 6 Gen 3 the Contest begins – man and archon Man loses – fails – succumbs to the world The Nephilim appear Gen 6 Man loses even worse and becomes genetically polluted – save Noah ABSOLUTELY the biggest criticism to all expanding earth theories = what’s the mechanism that drives the expansion WEDD and WEDT =- DECOMPRESSION and rotational harmonics The exact same mechanism that drives – volcanism – and plate tectonics
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Post by Dave on Oct 10, 2020 22:16:56 GMT -5
The Flood1- protoplanet earth = a Jupiter sized protoplanet – with a large gas atm and a small rocky planetoid it its center = Planetoid Pangea No oceans – just 4 large rivers 2- WEDD suggest that something of stellar proportions happenedIt affected the entire solar system – leaving only small atm planets within its shock wave And leaving all the outer planet as gas giants This event – blew away protoplanet earth’s large atm3- WEDD says – without this large pressure gravity well of the gas giant sized atm Planetoid Pangea – was allowed to DECOMPRESSFD-WEDT says it had to have happened in the following orderPlanetoid Pangea would have cracked like an egg The gasses would have ripped the continuous rocky surface into continental plates / tectonic plates The gasses would have immediately exploded to their new equilibriumFD-WEDT then says the liquids would immediately follow the gasses The fountains of the deep burst forth – then it rained – because what goes up, must come down The fluids (waters) would have burst forth and expanded to their new equilibrium as fast as they could ?Scripture says this was about 40 days?FD-WEDT also says the rocky crust remains as is – but is broken into tectonic plates FD –WEDT then says – the semi-solid mantel – would have been the last to decompress But at a much slower rate – because it is a semi-solid
FD-WEDT says – Planetoid Pangea was drowned under water Planetoid Pangea – became ‘Oceania’ – a 100% complete water worldScriptures says for about 430 daysFD-WEDT then says – this is when the slower depressing / expanding semi-solid mantel started pushing the tectonic plates up through the waters A process that didn’t actually stop until about 12,000 yrs ago The Hawaiian Sea Mount Chain This is a volcanic hot spot – that makes a small mount underwater But then the sea floor moves – and a new mount is formed But then the sea floor moves – and a new mount is formed Over and over – until you have a chain of mounts that form a straight line every scientist says – and every science says This hot spot is constant – therefore the size of each mount = time in place And the straight line chain = the direction of the sea floor moving A combination of size – distance between mounts – and straight line direction tell us the rate of movement and direction of movement Look at it as it marches straight south from the Bering Straights Then making a 60* turn to the southeast Continuing to march across the sea floor – until finally break the surface of the waters and form the 5 island Hawaiian chain – led on by still erupting at a steady rate - Kīlauea and Mauna Loa. A combination of size – distance between mounts – and straight line direction tell us the rate of movement and direction of EXPANSION of the Pacific floor Rapid at first the slowed and slowed until the Hawaiian Islands formed and are still forming This is evidence of the decompression process – speed – and direction
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Post by Dave on Oct 10, 2020 22:19:43 GMT -5
Plate TectonicsFD-WEDT then says – the tectonic plates do bump and grind against one another – wherever they touch – no disagreement there But plate tectonics says – India swam from Madagascar to Antarctica then smashed into Asia to form the Himalayas – all this on a same sized earth with leaving any evidence on the Indian Ocean Floor FD-WEDT says – as the earth decompressed – the individual tectonic plates would have been swung into they present location by rotational harmonics A figure skater rotates fast in a crouched over ball But as they stand up and open their arms wide – her arms swing into the place they need to be to maintain rotational harmonics If her posture is wrong – she will wobble out of control The Pacific gap was cause by the mass of Asia – that swung the farthest because of its mass Also - we see is that at one time – the Pacific sea floor was very fluid like and spilled its way into the Indian Ocean FD-WEDT says - earth has been at relative equilibrium for the last 12,000 years or so Which is also the same period of time as our measurable Carbon 14 history FD-WEDT also says – that after any expansion – there is ‘rebound contraction’ Blow into a balloon and it expands – just a little too far – then retracts to equilibrium Evident by the 21st century ‘sink hole’ problems of both Americas and parts of Europe Your saying the world was created flawed, with cycles of death from the beginning, even parasitesYou have no idea just how amazing and complex the world was before man My view of reality – includes all the data – no pseudoscienceABSOLUTELY the biggest criticism to all expanding earth theories = what’s the mechanism that drives the expansion WEDD and WEDT =- DECOMPRESSION and rotational harmonics The exact same mechanism that drives – volcanism – and plate tectonics
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Post by Dave on Oct 11, 2020 0:41:28 GMT -5
D: "Eve is 100% tov for the lord But at infancy – she become mixed with animal and its DNA programming for self R: "I see, But if GOD is a clever functional programmer why would He create RA in the DNA code?
Do you ever see a Rolls Royce car with faulty steering built in?I have never seen any car with the ability to choose There are over 5 million parts on a Boeing 747I never met a plane that could chooseI drove a farm car once, the farmer assured me was legal for road driving, but the rack and pion steering lost track for a second every now and then, I owned a 67 Ford Pickup that you had to keep downwards pressure on the steering wheel If you pulled up the steering knuckle would come apart - it woulf freak you out - and you pushed down again to regain controlD: "Satan will be there listing all our sins – but God will give us a pass in Christ R: But you don't have a Satan listing our sins? Why would a friendly angel doing a bad job of testing humans, want to list our sins of RA, if we are already programmed to do RA? Again for the 27th time – satan is the prosecutor – it is his jobEach of us stand judgment When this happens satan is right there accusing us of all our wrong God the judge – can rebuke satan – tell him to stop – because God plucks you like a coal from a fire God – the Judge – tells the prosecutor satan – to stand down – because God is granting you a Divine Pardon If you need an example – look at your Zec 3 Can't GOD list our sins? Arn't they recorded in His books? OK – there could only be one God – and He is happy all by Himself – and Gen 1:1 never happens Why bother Why did God make any angels at all – why bother Why did God make man – then let man fall to hell – why bother God of Love So why does God do things Robert – tell me – I am just a man and do not know the mind of God Why did God send the angel of death to all the Egyptians – everybody – why The answer is – I am not God and do not know All I can do is report what has been recorded D: "Secondly we are judged on our works R: "If I do yester tov rather than yester RA, whose works of yester tov are they? Mine or God'sWhat are works Robert?Praying the rosary - saying printed prayers aloud – bowing up and down – kissing someone’s ring? Works are things deliberately done – on behalf of our mission to witness To have the community watch you go to church every x day = a witness onto the community Is going to church and sitting there a work – maybe if you learn something – maybe if your FELLOWSHIP with another there is valuable – but walking into a the building means nothing – it is the witness it demonstrates You volunteer your time at a soup kitchen – you do a lot – you work hard – is a deed Anyone can work at a soup kitchen – but if you do it while singing a hymm for another to hear – is a work Anyone can put $$$$$$ in a collection plate – big deal – a deed Stop and help a stranger – big deal – a deed Stop and help a stranger while telling him about your faith – a work I guess what I am saying = Missionary work – in the home – in the community – or overseas = works Because you are working on your mission – to witness to the Glory of God there are 10 million ways to mitzvah - to you family - to your community - to a complete stranger - to your enemy none of these ways REQUIRE - proper training - proper clothing - or membership to a church building D: "Third – by our Fruit – what is fruit – the fruit of our mission here – helped others on their way to salvation and God – helping them to remember R: - Again it's not our fruit, but God's fruit in us.It adds to OUR reward – it counts in our favor – it is better for us than if we did nothingExaggerated example The guy on the cross next to Jesus Christ His mitzvah vrs chata score card might have been 1 mitzvah to a kilzillon chata but we know he did 1 work - he coffessed Jesus as the christ in front of an audience his 1 work is still producing fruit Doesn't God say to Abram, he was accounted, adding up, all God's yester Tov works in Abram?AHHH – look at thisGen 26:5 (TLV) because Abraham listened to My voice and kept My charge, My mitzvot, My decrees, and My instructions.” Gen 26:5 (KJV) Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. God had a personal communion with Abraham Because Abraham knew God’s TorahHow could Abraham know God’s Torah that Moses has not written yet? Because God teaches it to each of us in the WombAbraham – remembered - Abraham already knew – and without them being written – Abraham kept God’s mitzvahs
Sin is the choice of choosing GOD or not choosing GOD. It's called missing for a reason. You define sin as what I should do, yester tov, rather than do what my body wants to do, yester ra. Your theory of faith, has no real dealing with sins, Sin is the choice between what I know I should do – and what my body wants to doSoul – knows God – we (man) already knows what God expects as tov Inside we know this Sin – is the choice not to listen to this Question – did you deliberately misrepresent me accidentally because you do not understand my English- or do you do it deliberately? Sin is the choice of choosing GOD or not choosing GOD. It's called missing for a reason.WHAT DID I SAYSoul already knows what God wants – because soul was with God spirit to spirit "Sin is the choice between what ‘I already knew since birth’ what I should do – and what my body wants to do Both elements of this doing is programmed into our DNA, according to you. Since GOD created both tov and ra into the DNA of mankind, how is this a free will choice even?YOU MUST HAVE AT LEAST TWO CHOICES TO PICK FROM - OR THERE IS NO CHOICEYou go to the store to buy an apple The only thing in the store is bananas I say - What are your choices – buy bananas or buy nothing You insist - that if I don’t buy the banana the apple will magically appear in my pocket D: "What is Paul saying here Ra is in his flesh It is his flesh that does the thing he does not want to The Torah is within him – in his soul - he knows the ‘knowledge between good and evil’ – in his soul AND thanks God for Christ who will rescue me from this 3D mortal shell called animal
R: "I would disagree with you my friend here. You missed a very small word in Greek, and failed to understand the Hebrew word it was translated from.Rom 7:17 So now it is no longer I doing it, but sin dwelling in me. This is a pivotal verse. "but sin dwelling in me" is translated wrong.Ro 7:17 but <alla> sin <hamartia> that dwelleth <oikeo> in <en> me <emoi>. What Hebrew word is "hamartia" ? That would have to be "chataah". Robert – I have had so much fun with this todayRom 7:17 νυνὶ δὲ οὐκέτι ἐγὼ κατεργάζομαι αὐτὸ, ἀλλ᾿ ἡ οἰκοῦσα ἐν ἐμοὶ ἁμαρτία. But – it is no longer mine – the works of me –but-- A (ἁμαρτία) sin dwelling within/in me "chata" is "hamartano"... this little fact changes the entire view of Romans 7.But – it is no longer mine – the works of me –but-- A (chata) missing dwelling within/in me Do not forget the AIt translates as - A (prep phrase) sinIt translates as - A-(in me)-sin It translates as - A THING in me It translates as - A chata within me Either way – it is the yester ra within me that continues to sinOnce soul remembers who is it and regains that communion spirit to spirit Your entire perspective changes and you begin to see the bigger picture If Jesus Christ was standing right next to you – it would change your behavior Surprise – God, Christ, HS, and about 90 zillon angelic beings are all standing right next to you Many of these beings are dealing with you specifically Some are yanking your chain – some are stroking your ego – some are attacking you in other ways – some are helping you in ways you don’t even know There are propensities of RA in my DNA flesh, yes, but these are removed slowly over time: Ex 23:30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee,You are never going to rewrite your genetic makeup in this worldIt is not about the flesh – it is all about the spirit And the amount of stain our sin has left on it R: "your theory of faith removes the origin of sin, and places the origin of sin directly unto GOD. D: "NOPE! First choice to not acknowledge God as absolute = the First Archon R : please explain. Your statements are too brief.SERIOUSLYYou – origin of sin – sometimes you say it was cherub chata – sometimes you say cherub chata could not have happened until after Eve chata – and lately you say cherub happened firsts – but it didn’t effect much the real change happened when Eve chata D: "NOPE! First choice to not acknowledge God as absolute = the First Archon
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Post by Dave on Oct 11, 2020 10:41:23 GMT -5
Your saying the world was created flawed, with cycles of death from the beginning, even parasitesYou have no idea just how amazing and complex the world was before man My view of reality – includes all the data – no pseudoscienceBetween the creation of the leviathan and man there are two full creation days Darwin only observed the end result – not the process Science redefines Darwin – and says Intelligent Design I say – Darwin just rediscovered ‘Incremental Creation’ He could not fit it not 6 24hr days – therefore – it must not be scriptural Science cannot fit it into 6 24hrs days – so they think it not scriptural 6 days = God’s time And scripture says – to God a day is as a 1000 years – and a 100 yrs is as a day Creation wants to bend everything into 6 24hr man days Incremental Creation – is happy with 6 days from God’s perspective And time is not even linear 6 God days of creation may have been 6 24hr man days – or several billion man years Either way – God is correct – scripture is correct If you are a strict creationist – I have a few question – that creationist always overlookWhat of the Vedic Text?God’s came to earth in UFOs and did genetic manipulation of monkey man so monkey man could be slaves in an army This is the story of Gen 6 – loud and clearOne of the things that the Vedic god (Rama) did with his monkey man army was to build a road from India across the waters to the Island of Sira Lanka – so the army could march across the waters and attack. To retrieve a queen – just like the story - Helen of Troy Everyone on the planet made fun of this story – until the satellite images of the 1990s Who was Ramas monkey man army? The evidence suggest – that at the time of the Flood – there could have been as many as 8 hominid species on earth And scripture tells us that the bane elohiym – corrupted all flesh – not just Adam’s children If you are a strict creationist – I have a few question – that creationist always overlook Is the UR / Sumar / and the Fertile Crescent the birth place of man And does Sumar and the Fertile Crescent represent the birth place of mankind The answer = NO – not the firstBefore SumarMan lived at the edge of the waters – Before Sumar – water levels were much lower People lived off the coast of the Indus River – ruins now on the bottom of the Indian ocean People lived off the coast of Bimini – ruins now on the bottom of the Bahamas People lived on the North Atlantic sea floor – Dogger Land People lived off the coast of Japan – ruins now under the Pacific Where do all these peoples fit with Creationism?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2020 16:22:12 GMT -5
Dave: "1- time is linear Rob: "Time is relative, don't you follow Gerald Schreoder, a Jewish professor? He points out two things:
Ge 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning day one. Every translation gets this wrong. Why day one. Because ime began for earth from this poinnt forward.
Our universe has a beginning.
Ge 2:4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Time is also exposed to relativity. generation in a day? how is this possible? time has relativity. Both these ideas have been in the torah all along.
D: "The assumption of ‘time is linear’ is a flawed argument R in the light of what I told you now, what do you mean by this statement?
By the way there is no such thing as time. Time is simply the forward progression of memories made in our world. No such time as aging or going backwards in time.
Rocks do not age. Some undergo nuclear chemistry yes, for reasons we are not sure... RA affects maybe?
D: "2- planet earth went from form and void to what it looks like today – magically R what are you talking about? magically?
God spoke and the word empowered our Creation. Time rushed forward, space moved things apart, things became visible. No such thing as magic ? Schroeder says relative to other galaxies our world is billions of years old, yet relative to earth time Creation took six yom periods to Create. What's the problem?
D: "4- this planet has always been the same diameter
THIS IS A HUGE QUESTION? Has planet earth always been the same size? THE ANSWER = NO
R: Again you get bogged down in details.... who said I said the earth remained the same size? I didn't? Events in the past have to undergo theories because science can only evaluate the present. So I don't get bogged down in the past. I read my Hebrew, and that is all I can do with assurance.
D: "1 day today doesn’t = 24hrs R: why does this even matter? six yom the Bible says.
Barry Setterfield says light was faster in the past. OK, just a theory. Theories are fine, but they are only theories.
I read the Hebrew and take theories with a grain of salt. Scripture says "six yom". A "yom" is defined as a "day" the time for earth to spin into the light over again.
D: "On Earth, a sidereal day is almost exactly 23 hours and 56 minutes. R: sounds like RA, to me a Yom would have been 24 hours exactly, a year 360 days with 12 by 30 days a month, giving 12 seasons of fruit from each tree. This sounds more functional and perfect.
D: "If the earth was larger as some of us believe – it would have rotated at a different rate R: It doesn't change the fact of "six yom" in the Hebrew Dave. Theories are theories.
D: "Question – Carbon 14 dating is excellent to about 12,000 years – then begins to fail – WHY? Answer – about 12,000 years ago the ration of c14 to c12 was different – simple
To go beyond 12,000 years – science starts using other isotopes – Strontium But they use the same flawed assumption that the amounts of strontium has always been the same as today
R: yes all flawed.
Mt St Helens blew up, rocks everywhere, some rocks dated 3 million years old. Something wrong with all our dating of rocks. Rocks do not age. They do chemistry for reasons unknown.
D: "The only ways ‘Island Pangea’ is possible is if it straddled a pole It is never presented this way – because it contradicts their method to explain how these continents swam all around the globe
Ooops! R: assumptions of the past? Why not the entire earth as land, and a few seas of fresh water here and there? Salt water did not exist.
D: "You will never have an explanation of why they are all L shaped territories The answer is so easy Place these continents onto Planetoid Pangea and they straighten out into latitudes
R: your picture is really cool thanks.
D: "ABSOLUTELY the biggest criticism to all expanding earth theories = what’s the mechanism that drives the expansion R: the flood underneath the earth?
Ge 7:11 the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up,
D: "The fountains of the deep burst forth – then it rained – because what goes up, must come down R: a canopy of water vapour existed above earth, shielding the rays of sunlight, making earth balmy.
D: "My view of reality – includes all the data – no pseudoscience R you call CMI science false science? Because it lacks credibility to you? CMI has many theories on the past too. Your bogged down with them. I do not.
D: "I drove a farm car once, the farmer assured me was legal for road driving, but the rack and pion steering lost track for a second every now and then, I owned a 67 Ford Pickup that you had to keep downwards pressure on the steering wheel If you pulled up the steering knuckle would come apart - it woulf freak you out - and you pushed down again to regain control
R: I smiled here, so you reckon all this is OK, functional? I don't think so. Be honest and agree with me? Why woudl GOD intentionally created things flawed? He wouldn't naturally, but He could if He had to. Only Sin makes GOD create RA.
D: "The answer is – I am not God and do not know All I can do is report what has been recorded
R: you don't report what has been recorded. Torah does not say GOD created our world for Adam with RA in it. Scripture does not describe Adamus with spirit and Adam with RA, both living as one soul.
We humans are created as elohiym, as children of elohiym, Jesus says to Jews about to stone Him for saying this, yet as an engineer of making things, I never dream of building things intentionally flawed as you seem GOD would.
Even as a PHP programmer, all my code has no syntax errors and no logic errors of any time. It's perfectly functional all the time. And you say GOD does things you don't understand?
Change your view for one tiny amount and ask, can not GOD do anything He wants, even make the universe all tov? Think of this, and all your pieces with fall into place. And forget Gnostic writings, they are not 100% truth. Moses torah is 100% truth. Stick to that, and if details lack, so they lack, be creative, but do not get off track.
D: "What are works Robert? Praying the rosary - saying printed prayers aloud – bowing up and down – kissing someone’s ring? R those works are works of Baal. Self.
Our works are when we support GOD, so His power flows in us, and we experience GOD in our lives for just a moment. Like "lord me not into tempation" when I pass the cake food, and no longer am tempted to eat RA food, but choose to eat an Orange instead. That is a work I did, that GOD holds are "good works unto salvation", I support HIs words, and God supports Me, His love empowers me. This is called faith, ie support.
D: "Anyone can work at a soup kitchen – but if you do it while singing a hymm for another to hear – is a work R yes D: "Stop and help a stranger while telling him about your faith – a work R yes D: "none of these ways REQUIRE - proper training - R yes child's play even, simple to do, say words and those words do.
My daily problem is "Lord control my tongue" when in the presence of others. I speak Baal too much. Self
D: "but we know he did 1 work - he coffessed Jesus as the christ in front of an audience his 1 work is still producing fruit R: He did all the four steps of Salvation"
1 He acknowledged His saviour 2 He morned his loss 3 He spoke of His power 4 He witness to others of HIs power in his heart.
Therefore Jesus today you are with me in paradise. He was saved.
These four mitsvah steps follow the 4 commandments of the royal torah.
D: "God had a personal communion with Abraham R yes
R: "Sin is the choice of choosing GOD or not choosing GOD. It's called missing for a reason. D: WHAT DID I SAY
R: Gnostics are subtle differences Dave, subtle, Yes I hear you. Ge 3:1 ¶ Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field.
The serpent is subtil, every close to truth but far from truth.
You have shifted sin to Adam, while there is Adamus too. You have an intentional struggle designed in man.
Sin is simply choosing GOD all the time, or not choosing GOD all the time. We have mind, free to choose.
Our internal struggles came from SIN, not from anything intentionally placed there by GOD. subtle differences Dave.
D: "YOU MUST HAVE AT LEAST TWO CHOICES TO PICK FROM - OR THERE IS NO CHOICE
You go to the store to buy an apple The only thing in the store is bananas I say - What are your choices – buy bananas or buy nothing You insist - that if I don’t buy the banana the apple will magically appear in my pocket R: Love is not a thing. Love is a power from GOD.
Suppose you go to the store of YHWH, and ask Him, what fruits of love can I have today? Well says GOD there are over 6,000 fruits of love here to choose from, take your pick.
Arrhh you say, these are boring? Have you go something not so functional and good?
Well I could create these I suppose GOD says, but I would not recommend them for you, these are not good and they are not functional?
Can't I at least taste one, I say out of curiousity?
You can't GOD says, because the moment you take it, you have to no longer exist, because you are doing something that I do not like sustaining it for you, but can if you really insist, but you will die because you want this choice.
Well could I taste it than come back to you? Well you could, but for that moment I would have to sustain you even your dysfunctional state, and I would have to save you forever as you caused me to change my natural ways to sustain, and my laws says that this missing is eternal death, so I would have to experience this for you, if you want to come back to me.
What is eternal death I asked? When I am separated forever from you?
So I cease to exist?
Yes.
Than choosing these things is not a good choice is it?
No
I see. In that case, let me choose from the functional fruits of your love.
Dave you are assuming RA is tangible and truly exists.
Rape is simply love gone wrong. Murder is living gone wrong. Lying is truth gone wrong. Pride is humility gone wrong. You mentioned Jeff Benner comments of tov and ra. Ra is a moving away from GOD.
I like that, so do you.
God is NOT going to intentionally design a thing thay causes moving away from HIM.
D: "Robert – I have had so much fun with this today R
D: "It translates as - A chata within me
Either way – it is the yester ra within me that continues to sin R: not quite
It translates as - A chataah within me it is the chataah within me that continues to sin
You do not like rulers that rule in you.
Ge 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin "chatta'ah" lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
chatta'ah is personified as a Being that rules over us.
R: "Ex 23:30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee,
D: "You are never going to rewrite your genetic makeup in this world
Re 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. (KJV)
We have no guile in our mouth
1Jo 5:18 ¶ We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
In Jesus we sinneth not, correct Greek used here.
D: "SERIOUSLY You – origin of sin – sometimes you say it was cherub chata – sometimes you say cherub chata could not have happened until after Eve chata – and lately you say cherub happened firsts – but it didn’t effect much the real change happened when Eve chata R: Creatures sin. What's the problem? Angels sin, God deals with this. Humans sin, God offers salvation to humans, but not to angels. Why ? Because angels should know better. Some repented and did come back I suppose.
D: "And scripture tells us that the bane elohiym – corrupted all flesh – not just Adam’s children R Hmm? I don't see bane elohiym as you do. Sorry.
D: "Where do all these peoples fit with Creationism? R: After the fall, many people did bad things, including GM humans. Some of these races did bad RA things that caused GOD to wipe all of them out. But since this is past, a theory only. We can only speculate at best.
Shalom my friend
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Post by Dave on Oct 12, 2020 12:50:03 GMT -5
D: "The assumption of ‘time is linear’ is a flawed argument R in the light of what I told you now, what do you mean by this statement?Seriously Robert – are you trying to have an intelligent conversation? Linear = a straight line Non-linear would be a curve As in two clocks side by side running at different speeds God says – a day is as a 1000 yrs and 1000yrs is as a day – FROM GOD”S perspective Man’s day dose not = God’s dayTo say God’s day = 24hrs no more or less is ridiculesYou just posted much evidence that time is relativeSchroeder says relative to other galaxies our world is billions of years old, yet relative to earth time Creation took six yom periods to Create. What's the problem? What do you mean – you mean time is not linearTrip over words all you want Robert – really it does not have to be this hardThe 6 Days of creation are written from God’s perspective – 6 God days – 6 God yoms Increment Creation clearly identifies this as 6 increments of time These are not 6 man days of 24 hrs as we experience today Barry Setterfield says light was faster in the past. OK, just a theory. Theories are fine, but they are only theories. This is a measurable phenomenon – and haven’t you ever heard of the ‘red shift’Rocks do not age. Some undergo nuclear chemistry yes, for reasons we are not sure... RA affects maybe? I see rocks do not age – they just break down chemically and change Some become brittle and break apart and crumble into dust – but they don’t age
Mt St Helens blew up, rocks everywhere, some rocks dated 3 million years old. Something wrong with all our dating of rocks. Rocks do not age. They do chemistry for reasons unknown. I agree that the dating method as a telescoping factor to timeBut the science is sound – Less than 4000 years Carbon 14 is as close as +/- 25yrs I do not have to deny reality or science for my scripture to be trueThis chemistry you speak of is call decay – which is something moving toward ra – entropy Did the rock grow old with wrinkled skin and white hair – not it decays the way rock do D: "2- planet earth went from form and void to what it looks like today – magically R what are you talking about? magically?Planet earth did not go from ‘without form and void’ to the planet Earth we know today in one step’ There was nothing and God said let the earth and – poof earth of today appeared Sorry – Robert – there were many many steps between birth and completion D: "4- this planet has always been the same diameter THIS IS A HUGE QUESTION? Has planet earth always been the same size? R: Again you get bogged down in details.... who said I said the earth remained the same size? I didn't?Dr Walter Brown – Hydroplate theory – showcased by the CRID: "If the earth was larger as some of us believe – it would have rotated at a different rate R: It doesn't change the fact of "six yom" in the Hebrew Dave. Theories are theories.No Robert – it does not change the 6 God days of creationD: "The only ways ‘Island Pangea’ is possible is if it straddled a pole It is never presented this way – because it contradicts their method to explain how these continents swam all around the globe R: assumptions of the past?Why not the entire earth as land, and a few seas of fresh water here and there? Salt water did not exist. R: assumptions of the past? – the science as taught at university level TODAYAnd – of course – Planetoid Pangea at the heart of Gas Giant Protoplanet EarthD: "You will never have an explanation of why they are all L shaped territories Place these continents onto Planetoid Pangea and they straighten out into latitudes R: your picture is really cool thanks. Question - Do you see it – isn’t it obviousD: "ABSOLUTELY the biggest criticism to all expanding earth theories = what’s the mechanism that drives the expansion R: the flood underneath the earth?Not complete – in contradiction to at least 4 other science disciplines How is Hydroplate theory continuing to fuel the planetary movement and continues volcanismPlease as any volcanologist what they have to say about Dr BrownI have his work here – along with the IRC Foundation Trilogy I got my PhD with this thesis – I should have debated Bill Nye D: "The fountains of the deep burst forth – then it rained – because what goes up, must come down R: a canopy of water vapour existed above earth, shielding the rays of sunlight, making earth balmy. And – of course – Planetoid Pangea at the heart of Gas Giant Protoplanet EarthD: "My view of reality – includes all the data – no pseudoscience R you call CMI science false science? Because it lacks credibility to you? CMI has many theories on the past too. Your bogged down with them. I do not. CMI has pseudoscientific theories – that do not fit – anyone’s reality except theirs (Wiki) Brown has stated that no "evolutionist" will publicly debate with him, And he will no answer my emails – and the CRI would not even read my work because they already have a theory- and they will not listen to anyone trying to discredit Brown WHAT – this is what open scrutiny is all about Put your idea out there and defined it(Wiki) the National Center for Science Education journal, TRIED to discuss Brown’s work publically -1989/90 Brown accused by opponents of complicating such debates.[14][19][20] An abortive attempt at such a debate was held in 1989 and 1990 in the pages of Creation/Evolution, before Brown refused to continue ZERO respect for Brown as a true scientist – unwilling to discuss his work ZERO respect for CRI who would not even look at anything that might threaten his workCRI – is not a Research Origination – it is an agenda promotion centerBe honest and agree with me? Why would GOD intentionally created things flawed? This is a big issue for you – I see this You have spent your religious training thinking of God as a man – According to Robert – a man – thing here look flawed – from your perspective God looked at all and said – it is tov You look at it and it is flawed God looked at it and said it is tov I say one of you must be in error I say it is a matter of perspective You have this idea in your head that God is love – therefore God can only be nice God can only be nice – but he will judge you to hell for eternal punishment God is Mercy – but He allows satan to hurt and cause pain These are your confusing issues – not mine God is love – He loves us so much He created us – He loves us so much He has given ‘MAN’ the freedom to love God back – bi-directionally But as you say – this type of absolute love comes with risk Risk that man wont love God back – But as you say – God cannot let this stand and after much patience – Lake of Fire God knew Eve would ‘fall’ – of course He did God is the author of Gen 3:15 – not your satan – The is the Contest – between man and archon NOT the CONTROVERY between god satan and God YHWY YES! – this contest is incredibly hard – as the age become more modern – I think it even gets harder God has always been there – for those who find Him Christ is there for those who seek Him Pardon for everything is granted when we love God back by our own choice R: you don't report what has been recorded. Torah does not say GOD created our world for Adam with RA in it. Scripture does not describe Adamus with spirit and Adam with RA, both living as one soul.And yet this has been Jewish theology for 4000 yearsMy daily problem is "Lord control my tongue" when in the presence of others. I speak Baal too much. Self This is how I think of my life - My tongue and my co-workerThere are thing I cannot say – if a woman was present There are things I cannot say – if my boss is present Jesus Christ is present – He is standing next to me now – we have had several conversations this morning – and as I drive into town later – I will thank Him for my car, my wife, and my life here in these views of God’s creation (serious apartment life in a city would kill me) My daily problem is "Lord control my tongue" when in the presence of others Even Paul said – I know better – but my animal is still an animal Confession – I am manic depressive Around age 28 I went through some medications – to be normal Walking with God – (because Jesus is right next to me) – is a better pill Also – if you haven’t figured it out – I am a major Geek – academics has never been an issue At times in my life – I have too many thoughts and become confuses Walking with God – (because Jesus is right next to me) – is a better pill Ge 3:1 ¶ Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field. The serpent is subtil, every close to truth but far from truth.Gen 3:4 καὶ εἶπεν ὁ ὄφις τῇ γυναικί Οὐ θανάτῳ ἀποθανεῖσθε· This is a fun Bible StudyThe LXX says – word for word – dying you shall not die Gen 3:4 (Hebrew) מות תמתון׃ You are the Hebrew guy – what does this say – death – not future death If you eat it you will –death – not future death If you eat it – dying you shall not die DID THE SERPENT LIE? – no He told Eve the exact truth – mortal death is not the end of you – that comes later (maybe) Dave you are assuming RA is tangible and truly exists.I know it is tangible because God made it – then says stay away from it We are still Eve and the most attractive and appealing to our 3D yeater ra senses is still the wrong treeYou mentioned Jeff Benner comments of tov and ra. Ra is a moving away from GOD. I like that, so do you.In 8 years and 2600 post – He made one comment to meD: "And scripture tells us that the bane elohiym – corrupted all flesh – not just Adam’s children R Hmm? I don't see bane elohiym as you do. Sorry.Gen 6:7 So Adonai said, “I will wipe out humankind, whom I have created, from the face of the ground, from humankind to livestock, crawling things and the flying creatures of the sky, because I regret that I made them.” God has regrets about more than just manGen 6:11 Now the earth was ruined before God, and the earth was filled with violence. Gen 6:12 God saw the earth, and behold it was ruined because all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth. Gen 6:13 Then God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh is coming before Me, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. Behold, I am about to bring ruin upon them along with the land. All flesh – chimeras , crawling things and the flying creatures of the skyD: "Where do all these peoples fit with Creationism? R: After the fall, many people did bad things, including GM humans. Some of these races did bad RA things that caused GOD to wipe all of them out. But since this is past, a theory only. We can only speculate at best. You miss the pointThis pre-culture – came and went before our written store even began The story is much richer and complex that simple history Point – these culture were not destroyed – they just moved up stream This is why Sumar and the Indus Valley are the cradle of Asian history But since this is past, a theory only. We can only speculate at best.We take the evidence as evidence We do not deny it – we do not pretend it does not exist Instead – we add to our data set and Ponder just when in scripture this data belongs
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 14:39:47 GMT -5
R: "Schroeder says relative to other galaxies our world is billions of years old, yet relative to earth time Creation took six yom periods to Create. What's the problem? D: "What do you mean – you mean time is not linear R: Gerald Schroeder theory is Biblical. Have you understand his theory, I like his theory alot. Gerald says time began from earth time from day one. As the universe expanded, space increase, so matter also stretched out, time between galaxies decreased, so they appear older than they should be relative to earth time.
So earth was created in time forward in six 24 hour periods, but relative to other worlds they appear older, and from their worlds, we would look older. Time is relative between different frames of reference.. But on your own frame of reference time moves forward in a linear fashion, what I asked you what you mean by that term. I have explained myself a bit here.
D: "I see rocks do not age – they just break down chemically and change Some become brittle and break apart and crumble into dust – but they don’t age R: correct. Our bodies do not age either, biological changes happen to our bodies because we lose information as mutations increase, technically our bodies are rebuilt every 3 months or so, moecule by molecule.
In fact many scientists argue time does not exist on the Internet, have you not listened to them?
D: "Planet earth did not go from ‘without form and void’ to the planet Earth we know today in one step’ There was nothing and God said let the earth and – poof earth of today appeared
Sorry – Robert – there were many many steps between birth and completion
R: Robert Gantro I believe, on plutonium halo theory finds them in granite rocks, now plutonium haloes have a 1/2 life of a few seconds, showing you the speed of Creating Granite Rocks during Creation, but his is a theory, so there is some evidence things would have been created very rapidly, like nanoseconds.
D: "I got my PhD with this thesis – I should have debated Bill Nye
R Maybe you shoujld have
D: "ZERO respect for Brown as a true scientist – unwilling to discuss his work R: give me a link, and I will read his work...
R: "Be honest and agree with me? Why would GOD intentionally created things flawed?
D: "This is a big issue for you – I see this You have spent your religious training thinking of God as a man – According to Robert – a man – thing here look flawed – from your perspective God looked at all and said – it is tov
R: Dave, yes it's a big issue. You say designing RA propensities intentionally into man's DNA is somehow tov, because God did it? Actually Moses torah does NOT say this idea at all. It's a big deal because you are off the track on this point, following a lie written in Gnostic writings. Sorry to have to say this my friend.
You actually say GOD invented death intentionally. I thought death is the true punishment for sin. Now you have no punishment for sin.
You also have GOD designing ra angels who sin from their creation. This removes free will for humans, as there is no way to measure if they can choose or not choose, since only way we can see free will, is via the word "chata" to be missing God's power in our lives. But you have archons missing God's power as if this idea is tov?
God did it , God created RA, so it must be tov. NO
Have a look at why GOD creates RA in the first place, so sinners can see their sinning, Shadow experiment?
D: "You look at it and it is flawed God looked at it and said it is tov
R: You are mocking GOD saying his Creation is flawed. It never was. It was very functional. Ge 1:31 , behold, it was very <m@`od> good <towb>.
What does maod mean? ( M-AWD) — Many: An abundance of things (many, much, great), action (complete, wholly, strong, quick) or character (very). [ms: dam] [freq. 299] |kjv: very, greatly, sore, exceedingly, great, much, diligently, good, might| {str: 3966} FLowing strong secure door, \\
Jeff Benner meaning
וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים אֶת כָּל אֲשֶׁר עָשָׂה וְהִנֵּה טוֹב מְאֹד וַיְהִי עֶרֶב וַיְהִי 1:31 בֹקֶר יוֹם הַשִּׁשִּׁי and~ he~ will~ See “Elohiym [Powers]” At All Which he~ did~ Do and~ Look Functional Many and~ he~ will~ Exist Evening and~ he~ will~ Exist Morning Day the~ Sixth
Jeff says Creation was much, many functional.
Have a look through the OT 278 references to maod. Interesting word, meaning many/much.
D: "You have this idea in your head that God is love – therefore God can only be nice R Who said love is only every nice? Never disciplined your girls? hard love and soft love?
D: "God can only be nice – but he will judge you to hell for eternal punishment R: SInner get judged, wicked RA people who follow the sinning of angels.
D: "But as you say – this type of absolute love comes with risk Risk that man wont love God back R: yes
D: "God is the author of Gen 3:15 – not your satan – The is the Contest – between man and archon NOT the CONTROVERY between god satan and God YHWY R: Well if it was only testing, why are TWO beings of BURNING upon the pole Moses used for faith?
These two Beings are YHWH-Jesus and devil-archon-Satan
D: "Pardon for everything is granted when we love God back by our own choice R: How can you pardon somebody who has RA-DNA into their body? Not my fault I sin, God made me sin? How is this a choice?
You say apples and oranges are a choice? Yes, but not if there are tov DNA and RA DNA wired into my body. Now I have no choices at all. DNA runs and rules powerfully our minds....
every fostered a girl since 2 as a TOV foster mum?, once puberty hits, the love of the foster mum goes away. And the epigenetics kick in, the other mum who was RA only.
D: "Also – if you haven’t figured it out – I am a major Geek – academics has never been an issue At times in my life – I have too many thoughts and become confuses R" You get bogged down in the details too much, keep it simple is my motto
D: "DID THE SERPENT LIE? – no He told Eve the exact truth – mortal death is not the end of you – that comes later (maybe)
R: The devil lied, he didn't die a mortal death, only a living death, so told the same to Eve.
Eve did die immediately upon eating the fruit. God died. As God dies, man dies. After all man is only living because GOD is living.
The relationship died.
Death is defined in Scripture as a loss of connection with GOD. For example"
Prayer of Yashua: Ps 22:1 My God <'el>, my God <'el>, why hast thou forsaken <`azab> me? why art thou so far <rachowq> from Yashua <y@shuw`ah> me, and from the words <dabar> of my roaring sh@agah?
Yashua cries out do not leave me?
But you have three expressions, how can expressions leave each other if they are all of the Father YHWH? In my theory living is the godhead connected and empowered to be a circuit for breath of living.
Death is the exact opposire, no connection, all members of Godhead, stop circuits to each other, and hence death. Death is not cessation of biological functions, some who die have cells living on.
Mortal death is a loss of patnership with GOD.
You cannot explain living and death, because you have one Father YHWH only. D: "In 8 years and 2600 post – He made one comment to me R Yeah I can relate to that
D: "Point – these culture were not destroyed – they just moved up stream R eight people on the boat, the other man, and GM man, all perished in the great flood. Your writings about Ham feeding GM man through holes in the ark is weird. Not written in the simple Moses account.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Oct 13, 2020 13:41:36 GMT -5
R: "Schroeder says relative to other galaxies our world is billions of years old, yet relative to earth time Creation took six yom periods to Create. What's the problem? D: "What do you mean – you mean time is not linear
Time is relative between different frames of reference.. But on your own frame of reference time moves forward in a linear fashion, what I asked you what you mean by that term. I have explained myself a bit here.
Look at what you have written For you – from your perspective – time appears linear – to you Agree – for the human body – time feels like tick – tock at a steady rate
However – If I am at a different location than you and moving at a different speed then you For me – from my perspective – time will appear linear – time me
However – time is moving at a different rate My clock and your clock do not keep the same time
Schroeder says relative to other – and he is absolutely correct Einstein – clarifies the issue not only a matter of location – but also speed
Schroeder’s argument is mathematical Einstein’s view is observable and measurable – tangible
Orbital Mechanics, Satellites, Earth (planet). Astrophysics How is time different for an orbiting satellite than on earth? Marshall Eubanks, Chief Scientist (2018-present) Answered February 19, 2018 · On the satellite, you would detect no change; time would pass there just as it does here. … (From the perspective / view of the satellite – time appears linear) … Comparing clocks or the passage of time between a satellite and here on the surface of the Earth, however, there would be changes from two sources - you would be further out in the gravitational potential well (i.e., further away from the Earth), and so time would run faster for you there compared to here on the ground, and you would be (for any useful orbit) be moving faster than here on the ground, which means that time would run slower. The two effects can be, to a sufficient accuracy, simply summed, and the result is that the direct gravitational time dilation change wins out over the indirect one, and time would run faster for you in orbit about the Earth than here on the ground.
For GPS satellites, for example, up at 20,000 km, time would run faster by 45 microseconds / day due to being further up in the gravitational potential well, but would run slower by 7 microseconds / day due to the satellite’s velocity. The sum of these opposing effects mean that the satellite clocks gain 38 microseconds per day compared to clocks here on the ground; this effect is built into the GPS satellite clocks, so that they appear to keep the same time as terrestrial clocks.
Time is not linear – by location or speed Linear time – only exist – in the perspective of the viewer
God’s ‘Days’ of creation are one day – to God – from God’s perspective From man’s perspective (we do not share the same location or speed as God) therefore Man’s days – are not the same – as God’s days
To define a day as the roatation of the earth - there was no light from the sun or the mom until Gen 1:14-19 on day 4
To God – creation took 6 days To man – it happened at a different rate / speed I say – get over the word “day” that hardly ever means 24hr exactly Incremental Creation – just calls it 6 Increments of time
So any argument man has about time is only from man’s perspective 6 24hr man days for creation = thinking that God and creation is man like mortal like – happens within our time reference – is ERROR
From man’s perspective – how long is God’s Days? All we are told = God’s time does not = man’s time 2 Peter 3:9
D: "Planet earth did not go from ‘without form and void’ to the planet Earth we know today in one step’ There was nothing and God said let the earth and – poof earth of today appeared Sorry – Robert – there were many many steps between birth and completion
D: "ZERO respect for Brown as a true scientist – unwilling to discuss his work R: give me a link, and I will read his work...
This is how research is supposed to work 1 – you have an idea 2- you publish Why do you publish – to educate the world that you are right? – NO! You publish- so your peers can rip your ideas to shred – and prove you wrong 3- if others can punch holes in your argument – then your ideas either fall apart 4- if others cannot punch holes – then their arguments only add support to your argument 5- over time the idea grows and develops = or falls by the way side
Walter Brown is only published in one place – CRI CRI self publishes his Brown’s work – Book – from Amazon the Hard Copy is $80USD The only other place you can see his work is On-Line at CRI You cannot print it out – you can only accesses a few paragraphs at a time
My FD-WEDT – is not a standalone theory – Whole Earth Decompression Dynamics (WEDD) is published in several scientific journals WEDD – is published – begging for peer review WEDD – is real (recognized) science from a real (recognized) scientist – published a real (recognized) scientific literature
My – FD-WEDT – is an addendum – to WEDD IF WEDD is correct – then FD-WEDT is the next logical step
I spent a lot of money trying to be published = but I say God – I infer God – I defend scripture No scientific journal will touch me
Dr Herndon counseled me to this reality – but I will not down play the scripture validation
I also self-published through Amazon Why Amazon – because it makes me available at Barn’s and Noble – and several outlets in other languages
My book price is governed by Amazon – my royalty = minimum My theory is available in PDF or at my website where is can be freely downloaded If I have your address – I would send you a copy for free
PonderingConfusion not for profit Foundation – was my attempt to follow the trend The Foundation was supposed to promote and advertise my theory I could see myself traveling from church to church – giving lectures and receiving a special collection to pay for my gas ($$$$)
At one time I saw myself with a nice motor home and trailer – traveling from carnival to carnival with a pop-up venders stand – selling my book – having Bible studies
I had big plans – my yester ra – put many selfish ideas in my head My internet coder expert Pat - and a Crow Indian named Katz Cree – were the 3 officers of the 501C3 tax exempt foundation
Then – Virginia Happened She was a co-worker of my Sister – they worked together 12-18 yrs Now retired – they still play phone tag and get together for lunches Virginia – is a (now 86 yr old) UFO believer and X-Mormon – she proof read both of my books When I was in the motion of putting the Foundation together
She was the first to say she would help – but her hand s are tie and she could probably only give $30,000 USD to help me start PAT was greedy $$$$ Pat $$$$ - could not $$$$ wait to spend that $$$$$$ While – I was convicted to the core As time passed – I could not take her money – hated the idea even
Pat and I split our business relationship He thought I was throwing away a golden $$$$ opportunity Maybe I did – but the PC Foundation is now debunked – just not renewed as a business
I am alone – and anyone is welcome to peer review my work As cheap as possible – or free
R: "Be honest and agree with me? Why would GOD intentionally created things flawed? R: Dave, yes it's a big issue. You say designing RA propensities intentionally into man's DNA is somehow tov, because God did it?
Actually – I say that every physical living creature on earth has nothing but yester ra Yester ra – is the self-driven – self-preservation – survival instincts Each animal created – comes with this instinct of survival Because it comes with the physical DNA that make up physical man – that gives rise to Mind
This is how every animal on earth is made – instinct for self-preservation – MAN is no exception But – man has a soul – the seat of yester tov – which makes man special Man is special – because of all the animals – Man has a choice Be the animal until you die – ignore the consequences – deny your inner knowledge Or – recognize God in the world – recognize the yester tov within us – and act on it
Actually Moses torah does NOT say this idea at all. It's a big deal because you are off the track on this point, following a lie written in Gnostic writings. Sorry to have to say this my friend. Actually – this is the heart of Judaism From God we came – and to God we will return 100% Jewish – of Moses and has always been so – until Rome redefined theology in their view Sorry to have to say this my friend.
You actually say GOD invented death intentionally. I thought death is the true punishment for sin. The only other option = God is not the designer of reality Some other force is able to reshape God’s design – must be a god
Now you have no punishment for sin. You know that this is not a true statement
You also have GOD designing ra angels who sin from their creation. This removes free will for humans, as there is no way to measure if they can choose or not choose, since only way we can see free will, is via the word "chata" to be missing God's power in our lives. But you have archons missing God's power as if this idea is tov?
Again – Robert – what is the choice You confuse left turn and meal selections as the ability to CHOOSE GOD
God did it , God created RA, so it must be tov. NO Isa 45:7 …. I, Adonai, do all these things. Col 1:16 … All was created through Him and for Him. Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being. I say, if God does it – it is tov – I who heartedly stand by God and my statement
Have a look at why GOD creates RA in the first place, so sinners can see their sinning, Shadow experiment? So – you are saying it is bad for a sinner to see his sin? If a sinner sees his sin – that is not a tov in God’s eyes? Curious – I would think God would want to illuminate the truth to you But if God illuminates the truth to you – there is no way that can be a tov God did it , God created RA, so it must be tov. NO
D: "You look at it and it is flawed God looked at it and said it is tov
R: You are mocking GOD saying his Creation is flawed. It never was. It was very functional. Ge 1:31 , behold, it was very <m@`od> good <towb>. And that include Gen 1:2 - choshek
Jeff says Creation was much, many functional. Nice Jeff agrees with God Nature in balance – is an amazing creation
D: "You have this idea in your head that God is love – therefore God can only be nice R Who said love is only every nice? Never disciplined your girls? hard love and soft love? What does hard love feel like when you are the recipient?
Isa 45:7 I form (LOVE) and create (Hard Love). I make (Love) and create (Hard Love). I, Adonai, do all these things.
You say apples and oranges are a choice? Yes, but not if there are tov DNA and RA DNA wired into my body. Now I have no choices at all. DNA runs and rules powerfully our minds....
But – you error you use to misrepresent me is to deny the spirit I say animal = yester ra – just like any animal – instinct for survival – it comes with animal I say – SPIRIT / SOUL = the home of yester tov – the knowledge of God and the Torah
D: "DID THE SERPENT LIE? – no He told Eve the exact truth – mortal death is not the end of you – that comes later (maybe) Eve did die immediately upon eating the fruit. God died. As God dies, man dies. After all man is only living because GOD is living.
Not touching this with a 10 foot pole – please reword
Prayer of Yashua: Ps 22:1 My God <'el>, my God <'el>, why hast thou forsaken <`azab> me? why art thou so far <rachowq> from Yashua <y@shuw`ah> me, and from the words <dabar> of my roaring sh@agah?
Yashua cries out do not leave me? But you have three expressions, how can expressions leave each other if they are all of the Father YHWH?
Neh 5:7 Then I consulted with myself, and I rebuked the nobles, and the rulers, and said unto them, … Act 26:9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things … 2Co 2:1 But I determined this with myself, that I would not come again to you in heaviness.
One is mind talking to soul / spirit Mind – pausing to consider the sub-conscious – soul One is animal and one is spirit
E=mc2 E –is still there – on his throne – a singularity that we cannot see or locate M = something made of matter And communication is via c2 – spirit = HS
Christ – is not made of matter - spirit Jesus is made of matter – animal mind
D: "Point – these culture were not destroyed – they just moved up stream R eight people on the boat, the other man, and GM man, all perished in the great flood. Your writings about Ham feeding GM man through holes in the ark is weird. Not written in the simple Moses account.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, Luk 17:26 And as it came to pass in the days of Noah, even so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
There is no doubt – the Nephilim survive the Flood
The Book of Jubilees tells us 10% of the total are allowed to remain But when they die on earth (because they are ½ breed mortal) their spirts remain on earth as the evil spirit we know today We are aslo told that some are ejected from this world – can no longer live here So where do they live – on the 7 visible celestial bodies seen from earth They live in space – are ½ breed human – and therefore require transportation The bane elohiym themselves are also ejected from earth – and these are the spiritual / principalities that plague man in our Contest here on earth
Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. Nephilim do not have ‘the breath of life’ – they have archon souls Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, And this misses the 10% reaming Nephilim because they EJECTED from earth
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2020 2:54:44 GMT -5
Walter Brown is only published in one place – CRI
Need a link please, can't find link?
Dave: "Isa 45:7 I form (LOVE) and create (Hard Love). I make (Love) and create (Hard Love). I, Adonai, do all these things.
Rob: Dave how can you call hard love RA or even SIN?
Sin has nothing to do with love, likewise RA, both RA and Sin are technically disobedience. I am referring to moral RA.
Love requires obedience in legal terms. Sin or moral RA is disobedience in legal terms.
God can form love, both hard love (which is not ra by the way) and softer love, and there are all forms of obedience.
Disobedience has to be totally different to love is it not?
You're removing choice. You cannot design both obedience and disobedience from the same side, ie GOD.
Rob: "Have a look at why GOD creates RA in the first place, so sinners can see their sinning, Shadow experiment?
DAVE: "So – you are saying it is bad for a sinner to see his sin? If a sinner sees his sin – that is not a tov in God’s eyes?
Rob: Yes it is bad for a sinner to see his sinning, because it shouldn't exist, but because GOD is kind, the sinner "forces" GOD to shine His light differently, and thus engineers things so the darkness (Sin and RA by other names) actually is seen by the sinner.
In our Bibles it says disobedience will never arise a second time (Nahum), so if a creature ever trillions of years in God's perfectly TOV world upon the nanosecond of sinning starting, the sinning sinner would immediately cease to exist, but nobody with free will mind will ever think to be missing out on GOD's power. So it is impossible for sinning to remotely exist near GOD's world.
But it exists in our fallen world, because sinning happened for the first time.
D: "If a sinner sees his sin – that is not a tov in God’s eyes?
R: Absolutely NOT. What has light in common with darkness? Nothing.
Einstein is correct, normally darkness never exists in the presence of GOD.
Do you understand this idea?
God's light is seven fold brighter than it is normally now over our earth, so it would be impossible to make a umbra shadow even it would tried to make one. Likewise you couldn't sin, either. If you tried, you would immediately cease to exist.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Oct 14, 2020 10:21:28 GMT -5
Walter Brown is only published in one place – CRINeed a link please, can't find link?What does this tell you? You have accepted a theory – hook line and sinker – because a agenda pushing propaganda magazine has indorsed it – but you do not know what he says You accept him as valid because he is endorse by an organized group = religion www.icr.org/www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/HydroplateOverview2.htmlwww.amazon.com/Beginning-Compelling-Evidence-Creation-Flood/dp/1878026097/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=dr+walter+brown&qid=1602687560&sr=8-3www.amazon.com/Beginning-Compelling-Evidence-Creation-Flood/dp/1878026089/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=dr+walter+brown&qid=1602687484&sr=8-2I put this in the google search bar - "fluid dynamics of while earth decompression theory"About 2,410,000 results (0.71 seconds) Showing results for fluid dynamics of whole earth decompression theory Search instead for fluid dynamics of while earth decompression theoryThank you Robert – my head is big right now – grinning from ear to earDave: "Isa 45:7 I form (LOVE) and create (Hard Love). I make (Love) and create (Hard Love). I, Adonai, do all these things. Rob: Dave how can you call hard love RA or even SIN?I do not call hard love sin – but a necessary hardness of love – to correctSo I speak of ra – God created ra – God says so And you are ranting about sin Stay focusedDAVE: "So – you are saying it is bad for a sinner to see his sin? If a sinner sees his sin – that is not a tov in God’s eyes?D: "If a sinner sees his sin – that is not a tov in God’s eyes?So – You should not see your own error – so that you repent – this is ra to God (if it is not tov) It is only tov to God – if you remain ignorant of your error It is only tov to God – if you never see the truth of who you are and repentThink of what you have said
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2020 14:07:10 GMT -5
I take it you do not like Institute for Creation Science
www.icr.org/article/why-mosquitoes-attack-mystery-solved/ Their articles on mossies was brilliant They support a fallen world They support mozzies originally ate plant nectar, sensed CO2 and heat from plant flowers Amazing.
www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/HydroplateOverview2.html But first, what is a hydroplate? Before the global flood, an ocean of water was under Earth’s crust. Pressure increases in this subterranean water ruptured that crust, breaking it into plates. The escaping water flooded the Earth. Because hydro means water, those crustal plates will be called hydroplates. Where and why they broke, how they moved, and hundreds of other details and evidence—all consistent with the laws of physics—explain so many of Earth’s primary features and constitute the hydroplate theory.
Interesting theory.
www.amazon.com/Beginning-Compelling-Evidence-Creation-Flood/dp/1878026089/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=dr+walter+brown&qid=1602687484&sr=8-2 LOVE THIS BOOK! I give VERY few 5 star reviews, but this is put together in a way that's very useable, but in doing some fact checking, it really gets to the truth (whether you like it or not). And after all, isn't that what we SHOULD be in search of...the truth? I bought this copy for a friend that hasn't studied much in the way of physics, astronomy, geology, or any of the hard rock sciences. But, I felt after reading, studying, and fact checking this book it presented the subject in a way she could, and would understand. The science is good, and the presentation friendly. Agree, disagree, but take a look!
Pity you can't read some pages of his theory for free.
D: "Thank you Robert – my head is big right now – grinning from ear to ear R " your welcome
Rob: Dave how can you call hard love RA or even SIN?
D: "I do not call hard love sin – but a necessary hardness of love – to correct
So I speak of ra – God created ra – God says so And you are ranting about sin Stay focused
R: "But Dave, seriously moral RA only exists (can be observed) because GOD allows sinners to exist. Why do I rant about sin? Because moral RA is the fruit of sin, they are simile terms.
If something is dyfunctional is it by definition a poor aspect of GOD, and a clever GOD would only choose to create FUNCTIONAL things. Why even sinner engineers build only functional planes and cars, nobody ever builds flaws in technology on purpose. Well in our money world, maybe they do build RA into our consumerism.
But GOD is not like this.
The only reason He has anything to do with RA, discipline, hard love etc, is to deal with sinners who sin.
I am focused. You keep saying GOD is both good and evil, even morally so? You even have death designed on purpose by day 5 of Creation.
Ex 10:17 Now therefore forgive, I pray thee, my sin only this once, and intreat the LORD your God, that he may take away from me this death only. De 21:22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Just a few Scripture to show death only came into being from SIN, not from DESIGN... you are so way off track...
D: "If a sinner sees his sin – that is not a tov in God’s eyes? So – You should not see your own error – so that you repent – this is ra to God (if it is not tov) It is only tov to God – if you remain ignorant of your error It is only tov to God – if you never see the truth of who you are and repent
Think of what you have said
R: Sure sinners who see their sins and shadows of death, repent, come back to GOD, but you're changing topic. This is why GOD deals with sinners who sin, so they come back to GOD. You're changing themes. Stay focused.
R: You didn't comment on the rest of my statments? Maybe you cannot comment?
R: (1)What has light in common with darkness? Nothing.
Einstein is correct, normally darkness never exists in the presence of GOD.
Do you understand this idea? .
(2) Disobedience has to be totally different to love is it not?
Rob: Yes it is bad for a sinner to see his sinning, because it shouldn't exist, but because GOD is kind, the sinner "forces" GOD to shine His light differently, and thus engineers things so the darkness (Sin and RA by other names) actually is seen by the sinner.
But RA exists in our fallen world, because sinning happened for the first time.
There is a different Hebrew word suggesting dark like things can exist near GOD, but not the "choshek", which seems to be a natural RA, allowed to exist in our world from Creation since some angels had sinned for the first time, allowing this "choshek" to exist.
You keep saying GOD created RA and so this is SO, and you do not allow any deeper studied into why RA was created? Just for His glory? Creation maybe? but not RA.
The only reason why RA exists is because sinning happened.
But you can't discuss such things because you have angels intentionally sinning from their creation, so this negates the idea that SIN is a bad idea to GOD. Suddenly you have no bad ideas for GOD, all things including moral evil and moral good come intentionally from God. And you are able to show verses for this idea, including GOD killing humans over and over again.
Only if you see a small change in view, will all the other pieces fall into a different place in a different world view. Stop relying upon the Gnostic writings for answers.
So how does GOD show an umbra shadow to a human? How does darkness (the absence of light) exist?
Sure GOD engineers RA, so it can be seen, but why does GOD do this? So sinners see their umbra shadows.
And what is sin in the shadow experiment, a moving away from GOD.
Strange this is exactly what Jeff Benner emailed to you about RA. Shadows occur when human block GOD and move away from GOD. Bingo. A RA affect, made by humans in relationship to GOD.
You think when it says GOD created RA, this refers to Creation.... well did SIN start before Creation?
Are you sure "bara" always refers to Creation? Joshua was told to "bara" things from a forest.
When did SIN start for humans in our human world? After Creation, so RA has to have come after man sinned.
And the flood happened AFTER a whole world of humans SINNED.
And the lake of fire happened AFTER the entire human race has SINNED.
Why cause and affect like this? Because RA is the fruit of Sin, you SIN and GOD reacts to your sins.
Normally after all sinning is gone, you will never see any RA ever, not a natural RA nor a moral RA ever. Snow, rain, friction and murder, rape and incest will exist no more. And take snow, a fruit of RA, a product from SIN, was still beautiful, shows you that even in RA, GOD controls everything, even the sinning that spoils, it does not spoil GOD and his clever ways of dealing with our sinning.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Oct 14, 2020 15:15:04 GMT -5
I take it you do not like Institute for Creation ScienceI have worked in research of some type for the last 28 yrs of my professional career I have attended Bible Studies with Doctors and PhDs that spoke so far over my head to embarrasse scripture If – you lie to me – why should I listen to you? Especially – when we are discussion the Lord – and our quest for communion Research is published for peer review – it is the only way it receives respect CRI is a church – nothing moreIt is a 501C3 tax exempt church – collecting donations – and maintaining their buildings and grounds Churches do not have to engage other theologians – each church has its own view that it promotesFrom their web-siteWho We Are The Institute for Creation Research (ICR) wants people to know that God’s Word can be trusted in everything it speaks about—from how and why we were made, to how the universe was formed, Interesting – what the world truly needs – scientific proof that will cause every scientist from every scientific discipline to fall on their knees to GodAfter 50 years of ministry, ICR remains a leader in scientific research within the context of biblical creation. You understand what they are saying don’t youI Dave am the leading science expert in the realm of DaveResearch. ICR conducts laboratory, field, theoretical, and library research on projects that seek to understand the science of origins and Earth history. ICR scientists have conducted multi-year research projects at key locations such as Grand Canyon, Mount St. Helens, Yosemite Valley, and Santa Cruz River Valley in Argentina, and on vital issues like Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth (RATE), Flood-Activated Sedimentation and Tectonics (FAST), the human genome, soft tissue in fossils, and other topics related to geology, genetics, astro/geophysics, paleoclimatology, paleobiochemistry, and much more. Where is it posted? – Why isn’t your research in the mainstream science literature? Why –is the only source to your research is you Education. ICR offers formal courses of instruction and conducts seminars and workshops, as well as other means of instruction. With 40 years’ experience in education, first through our California-based science education program (1981–2010) and now with programs offered through the School of Biblical Apologetics, Hey – this is cool – they teach their theories in mainstream education in CaliforniaSchool of Biblical Apologetics, - About Our School The School of Biblical Apologetics (SOBA) is a formal education arm of the Institute for Creation Research. (For more on ICR's purposes, see Who We Are.) Again – I – Dave – am the leading Dave expert – and I validate myself The Creation Research Institute is NOT a research center – stop thinking that it is CRI is a church – nothing more It is a 501C3 tax exempt church – collecting donations – and maintaining their buildings and grounds Churches do not have to engage other theologians – each church has its own view that it promotes www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/HydroplateOverview2.htmlBut first, what is a hydroplate? Before the global flood, an ocean of water was under Earth’s crust. Pressure increases in this subterranean water ruptured that crust, breaking it into plates. The escaping water flooded the Earth. Because hydro means water, those crustal plates will be called hydroplates. Where and why they broke, how they moved, and hundreds of other details and evidence—all consistent with the laws of physics—explain so many of Earth’s primary features and constitute the hydroplate theory. Interesting theory.Pressure increases in this subterranean water ruptured that crust,Never a mechanism providedwww.amazon.com/Beginning-Compelling-Evidence-Creation-Flood/dp/1878026089/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=dr+walter+brown&qid=1602687484&sr=8-2LOVE THIS BOOK! I give VERY few 5 star reviews, A review from your fellow countryman at this forumI have a copy of Walt Brown's book, but I find it difficult to read due to the way the material is organized. His thoughts feel like an intellectual game of snakes and ladders. I found the videos easier to recognize his collective thoughts. Saying that, I agree with where he is heading with his energy release causing crypto-volcanic outbursts. I suspect that the Mid Ocean Ridge (MOR) is a result of the flood, and it is the catalyst for continent movement and seafloor spreading. The MOR must have appeared in embryo form from the very beginning, when dry land appeared on day 2 of creation. It was no doubt part of God's plan before man was even created to separate mankind into nations which were separated by oceans. I think God knew in advance that man was going to fall, and the earth was made to accommodate man's exercise of rebellion before the true bodies were given in the resurrection. God Bless Steve Pity you can't read some pages of his theory for free.Ponder that for a moment – Brown has proof that will cause all scientist to fall on their knees to the Lord and repent This has to be the most precious work since the aglAnd you can have a copy for only $79.95USDCRI is a church – nothing moreSo I speak of ra – God created ra – God says so And you are ranting about sin Stay focused R: "But Dave, seriously moral RA only exists (ca be observed) because GOD allows sinners to exist. WHy do I rant about sin? Because moral RA is the fruit of sin, they are simile terms. God said – he made the tov and the ra – I accept this So you must warp into a sin argumentBut GOD is not like this. The only reason He has anything to do with RA, discipline, hard love etc, is to deal with sinners who sin. I am focused. You keep saying GOD is both good and evil, even morally so? You even have death designed on purpose by day 5 of Creation. You keep saying GOD is both good and evil, even morally soYou have just been bitch slappedI say God is evil – get real Robert – please provide a quoteRo 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Just a few Scripture to show death only came into being from SIN, not from DESIGN... you are so way off track... I do not have to rewrite scripture to support my cosmologyYou say Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all animal everywhere – and all the plants – and to all the mountains - , for that all have sinned: - because the trees and grasses sinned Why cannot this passage be about one man – and all men - Einstein is correct, normally darkness never exists in the presence of GOD. Do you understand this idea? Dave made no comment.Gen 1:2 (TLV) Now the earth was chaos and waste, darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Ruach Elohim was hovering upon the surface of the water. Einstein disagrees with scripture – I do notYou keep saying GOD created RA and so this is SO, and you do not allow any deeper studied into why RA was created?Who created ra – please answer Disobedience has to be totally different to love is it not? Dave made no commentAppels are totally different and oranges – I agreeI love my father – he is in pain and beges me to kill him – should I obey I love my child – who demands money to buy drugs – should I obey? Appels are totally different and oranges – I agreeJust for His glory? Creation maybe? but not RA. The only reason why RA exists is because sinning happened. But you can't discuss such things because you have angels intentionally sinning from their creation, so this negate the idea the SIN is a bad idea to GOD. Please provide a scripture verse to make your point? Just to keep saying it – does not make it true
Suddenly you have no bad ideas for GOD, all things including moral evil and moral good come intentionally from God. And you are able to show verses for this idea, including GOD killing humans over and over again. Only if you see a small change in view, will all the other pieces fall into a different place in a different world view. Stop relying upon the Gnostic writings for answers. But all these verse you say I quote – are from the ahl Are you sure "bara" always refers to Creation? Joshua was told to "bara" things from a forest.And the end product was a buch of forest cut down and spread around to build things
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 14:38:59 GMT -5
Institute for Creation Research (ICR) CANNOT FIND any doctrines they follow, it's all very nice on the surface No search function either.
D: "Ponder that for a moment – Brown has proof that will cause all scientist to fall on their knees to the Lord and repent
This has to be the most precious work since the agl
And you can have a copy for only $79.95USD
R : Why is Walt Brown's work so closed up?
D: "God said – he made the tov and the ra – I accept this So you must warp into a sin argument R: Isn't moral RA sin? I don't get you...
Ge 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
So this RA is only something the humans were intentionally designed to be doing Dave? Which is it?
Ge 6:8 ¶ But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
So Only ONE MAN, in charge of his family, was the ONLY HUMAN truely supporting Elohiym? All other humans doing RA perished. These were not straight, only Noah's family was.
Ge 6:11 ¶ The earth <'erets> also was corrupt <shachath> before <paniym> God <'elohiym>, and the earth <'erets> was filled <male'> with violence <chamac>.
Maybe you should study "shachath" and "chamac" to see what "RA" really means?
V) ( Sh-HhT) — Corrupt: To destroy. [Hebrew and Aramaic] [freq. 150] (vf: Niphal, Hiphil, Hophal, Piel, Participle) |kjv: destroy, corrupt, mar, destroyer, corrupter, waster, spoiler, batter, corruptly, fault| {str: 7843, 7844} Pressing outside towards the mark. Jeff makes this verb mean "destroy/ or corrupt" A simile meaning of RA. The next Hebrew word is more difficult
V) ( Hh-MS) — Shake: To shake someone or something violently. To do a wrong to another as a shaking. [freq. 8] (vf: Paal, Niphal) |kjv: violence, violate, shake, wrong, violent, take, bare| {str: 2554}
Nm) ( Hh-MS) — Violence: A violent shaking. [freq. 60] |kjv: violence, violent, cruelty, wrong, false, cruel, damage, injustice, unrighteous| {str: 2555} im) ( THh-MS)
I disagree with Benner here, he does not follow his own teachings.
There are two forms of the same word.
The outside flowing prickles. This idea has thorns in it, a concept of sin.
Pr 8:36 But he that sinneth <chata'> against me wrongeth <chamac> his own soul <nephesh>: all they that hate <sane'> me love <'ahab> death <maveth>
Weird
Pr 8:35 For whoso findeth <matsa'> me findeth <matsa'> <matsa'> life <chay>, and shall obtain <puwq> favour <ratsown> of the LORD <Y@hovah>. 36 But he that sinneth <chata'> against me wrongeth <chamac> his own soul <nephesh>: all they that hate <sane'> me love <'ahab> death <maveth>. (KJV)
Here is a parallel poetry.... GOD is living The opposite is missing, shaking his own living energy, hate GOD, loving death.
Hmm? not sure what to make of these 8 verses using "The outside flowing prickles. ".
2Sa 22:3 The God <'elohiym> of my rock <tsuwr>; in him will I trust <chacah>: he is my shield <magen>, and the horn <qeren> of my salvation <yesha`>, my high tower <misgab>, and my refuge <manowc>, my saviour <yasha`>; thou savest <yasha`> me from violence <chamac>.
interesting verse
Ps 11:5 The LORD <Y@hovah> trieth <bachan> the righteous <tsaddiyq>: but the wicked <rasha`> and him that loveth <'ahab> violence <chamac> his soul <nephesh> hateth <sane'>.
Similar to Pr 8:36 using the verb form?
Ps 140:1 ¶ <<To the chief Musician <natsach>, A Psalm <mizmowr> of David <David>.>> Deliver <chalats> me, O LORD <Y@hovah>, from the evil <ra`> man <'adam>: preserve <natsar> me from the violent <chamac> man <'iysh>;
so RA ADAM is a simile of CHAMAC IYISH. Eze 28:16 By the multitude <rob> of thy merchandise <r@kullah> they have filled <male'> the midst <tavek> of thee with violence <chamac>, and thou hast sinned <chata'>: therefore I will cast thee as profane <chalal> out of the mountain <har> of God <'elohiym>: and I will destroy <'abad> thee, O covering <cakak> cherub k@ruwb,
This verse explains the origin of the thorn letter, the prickles that flow outside.
Notice an angel is sinning, thus does chamac, a fruit of moral ra, and is termed a cherub.
Am 6:3 Ye that put far away <nadah> the evil <ra`> day <yowm>, and cause the seat <shebeth> of violence <chamac> to come near <nagash>;
Here RA is a simile of chamac
Hab 1:2 O LORD <Y@hovah>, how long shall I cry <shava`>, and thou wilt not hear <shama`>! even cry out <za`aq> unto thee of violence <chamac>, and thou wilt not save <yasha`>! chamac is a opposite function to yasha.
Not sure what English word for this verb and noun form???
: "You say
Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all animal everywhere – and all the plants – and to all the mountains - , for that all have sinned: - because the trees and grasses sinned
Why cannot this passage be about one man – and all men
Rob" What's the problem? When RA came into our world from sin, it caused the dying of leaves, of grasses and of animals too. Is this so weird for you?
D: "Who created ra – please answer
The question is loaded Dave?
Who makes umbra shadows? Can you alone? NO Does GOD alone? NO Does the light alone ? NO Does the sin make the shadow all by itself? NO Everything has to come from GOD.
So in a relationship to GOD, the Father of lights, YOU a creature created by GOD choose to walk away from GOD far enough, that YOU cause a umbra shadow to form. This observed affect is termed "sin", because you are missing a close relationship to GOD.
Consider another physical example:
A human engineer creates a bolt rated at 200Nm of force, but another mechanic places a bolt of a lower rating into the tail of the plane, so save a few dollars of mainentance. The plane falls out of the sky and people die. Who is to blame? Ra here is not a moral decision to do missing, but missing is implied here. The mechanic places a bolt missing some functional strength, and to the bolt is unable to share its load across other bolts holding the tail of the plane.
Consider another example:
Friction is the wasting of energy as heat. This loss of heat is a kind of missing energy that could be used in a more productive manner. At near absolute zero conductors move electricity almost for ever, without missing their travellling in the conductor.
So here we see friction is really a missing of productive energy, again we are using the idea of something missing it's proper function.
In all these examples the term "ra" is about the idea of something functional is missing. Scripture calls this a sin, when applied to humans morally, but really shoudl be termed "missing".
Now would GOD intentionally create "missing" ? Of course not.
Such engineering only happens because creatures are missing GOD, so GOD reacts to the sinners.
R: "The only reason why RA exists is because sinning happened. D: "Please provide a scripture verse to make your point? Just to keep saying it – does not make it true R: You want me to prove RA is engineered by GOD when Sin happens?
Mt 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
Mt 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Lu 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death,
Lu 11:35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
Joh 1:5 ¶ And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God,
Ro 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
1Jo 1:5 ¶ This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
Notice John says no darkness, no RA in GOD. Only light and love.
How is darkness removed from a believer? Walk closer towards GOD, the shadows vanish.
You see RA as some designed thing, it's no such thing. RA is simply a description of relationship. RA is a condition when things are missing functional relationship to GOD. This defintion also fits friction, snow and rain. ANd yet snow is missing functional relationship to GOD is still beautiful despite some missing. I am amazed how clever GOD is, even when sinners sin, our world of RA made by our sinning is still beautiful and purposeful. If GOD wasn't controlling RA in this way, nothing woudl exist at all.
It must pain GOD to engineer darkness all the time, but sinnners demand this of GOD, because we are children of darkess and love darkness, rather than light. Does darkness exist as a thing? no Yet you call this an apple, you term the other an orange. Boy you are so way off track. You cannot design tov or ra, without relationships.
Is there such a thing as a relationship that is ra or a relationship that is tov? Not really.
Again you insist yester ra and yester tov are things.... its a part of relationship... either you love GOD fully or not. Some body who loves GOD almost fully is , almost saved but wholly lost. Loving GOD 99.999% is not enough either.
When Scripture says the man was straight, this means the man holds his hand into the hand of GOD, and it only takes two points in space to create a straight line. Simple. Got nothing really to do with these things you speak of some designed yester ra and some designed yester tov inside a man, like apples and oranges.
Relationships are just that, relationships based on love. Darkness does not exist. All you have to choose from is God's light. Come into the light, Scripture says. Yet people love darkness, this "thing" that does not exist, that GOD allows sinners to see, that we called shadows of death, people love, Oh well they say my number is up. They do not care that GOD allows them to live, even in darkness.
Shalom my friend
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