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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 16:29:19 GMT -5
R The matrix /medium of the HS is NOT for building a framework for creating things as you claim, but for dealing with sinners in a perfect world.
God showed me that dealing with sin and sinners sinning, ie angels that do sinning, before mankind existed, the world for mankind could still be created very functional, despite the medium/matrix function being present. Hence the fact that "choshek" was in the Edenic world, as well as a Being of "choshek", the Serpent, also termed Dragon, does not mean the universe could not be created very functional, despite some RA affects, so sinning angels could see their sinning.
I would agree with you the matrix was a framework for creating things very functional in a world already with sinning angels in it, but the primary purpose from chapter 8 of Proverbs, is the matrix was dealing with a sin problem, long before mankind even existed.
Because your Gnostic writings say GOD created sinning angels on purpose, violates the statement "GOD hates RA" Prov 8:13. Nowhere in the torah does GOD create RA things intentionally as a part of his perfect design.
Na 1:9 affliction shall not rise up the second time.
Thus dealing with this rebellion, of creatures choosing to sin, only happens once in time, never again. You also agree in the next creation of earth, not a single trace of RA is found, no chief archon, no sinning angels, no sin.
Of all the qualities of light and love, a single creature explored what it would be like to switch off light and switch off love. Never been done before. Why would you want to? Because I can, he replies. Stupid idiot. But that is sin. It has no rational reason. My friend is getting stone drunk this weekend for his birthday? Why? He can't answer that question. Sin is never rational. Sin is illogical, stupid and dysfunctional.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 20, 2020 13:20:42 GMT -5
D Pr 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: The HS was brought forth as birth pains, Before human CREATION, we are told. SO the question we have to ask if why was the Medium called forth?
The medium – the ether – the matrix of the multiverse had to come first – to build the rest upon But this would make God omnipresent - everywhere - and everything as in absolute - you deny this
First you say R How can you say, I deny the matrix, the medium, the functional descriptor of the Shadday as the HS? Then you go to tell why I am wrong
D But this would make God omnipresent - everywhere R a Medium does not make GOD omnipresent - everywhere, your Science application is wrong. Light is already omnipresent - everywhere, by definition.
What is light – but the EM spectrum – which is everywhere Your 8th grade misapplication of science not withstanding
Gen 1:1 God 'fattened' Himself into spirit and form The spirit = the matrix of all reality - the EM spectrum You deny spirit - you force the Holy Spirit to be an individual being - that can only be at one place at a time The Error of polytheism
Notice the properties of light change when light moves from one media to another media. See – you are speaking of a thing within something else I am speaking of that something else You confuse the two – just to be confused
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 15:23:32 GMT -5
D You deny spirit - you force the Holy Spirit to be an individual being - that can only be at one place at a time The Error of polytheism
R Maybe GOD is beyond both of us? You're right, I don't understand it, how a divine Being can be also everywhere, but hey, that's Scripture. Light is by definition everywhere. But you say light is only ever a wave, I say light can also be a particle. Hence we disagree.
How can love express loving if there are NOT unique divine Beings? Dave?
You do not have a "relational GOD", therefore cannot love, in the way humans love, yet we are made in the image of LOVE?
I ask you, was the woman a different Being? No, she was in a genetic clone of Adam, but a different personality of loving.
SO I see Adam and Eve as two personalities of loving, but one Being of flesh. That is not polybeings, but compound unity, one being, the adam kind.
D See – you are speaking of a thing within something else
R Isn't that what wind is? Something that carries something else? a medium?
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Pneumia is used for both "wind" and "Spirit" here.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 20, 2020 22:02:56 GMT -5
D You deny spirit - you force the Holy Spirit to be an individual being - that can only be at one place at a time The Error of polytheism R Maybe GOD is beyond both of us? You're right, I don't understand it, how a divine Being can be also everywhere, It is because you deny the spirit – a bodiless essence – I hate the Catholic use of the word – but a ghost
The Spirit of God is omnipresent - no matter where you look there He is The American Indian would say – spilt open a log or a rock and the spirit of God is there How can made fathom this – omnipresence
In the creation story E – expanded into the 10 dimensional EM spectrum God spoke the Word – the Word was God and the Word was with God = a function of distance God expressed the word – the EM spectrum of that word is the E that sustain all things – and forms the matrix in which / on which – 3D matter is transmuted
On a different level – a conscious level – the Spirit of God is the expression of God through a distance
Light is by definition everywhere. But you say light is only ever a wave, I say light can also be a particle. Hence we disagree. Wave or particle – light does not exist in the shadow
How can love express loving if there are NOT unique divine Beings? Dave? Why can’t a ‘One True Creator love His creation? Why must you have multiple gods so God can love His creation?
You do not have a "relational GOD", therefore cannot love, in the way humans love, yet we are made in the image of LOVE?
I ask you, was the woman a different Being? No, she was in a genetic clone of Adam, but a different personality of loving. SO I see Adam and Eve as two personalities of loving, but one Being of flesh. That is not polybeings, but compound unity, one being, the adam kind. No Robert – God does not have a clone – a twin- or a wife
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Pneumia is used for both "wind" and "Spirit" here. So – what is your point? Man’s spirit is not the HS – we are individual spirit being – created beings within creation
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 14:43:05 GMT -5
Dave writes: "light does not exist in the shadow"
Rob says " Great answer, Than GOD cannot create shadows, can He?
Only creatures do.
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Post by Dave on Sept 21, 2020 17:00:04 GMT -5
Dave writes: "light does not exist in the shadow" Rob says " Great answer, Than GOD cannot create shadows, can He? Only creatures do. So – your creatures can make a place where God is not So – your creatures can limit God So – there is a place where you can hide from God God is everywhere – ubiquitous – omnipresentJer 23:24 Can anyone hide himself in places so secret that I will not see him? Do I not fill heaven and earth?” It is a declaration of Adonai. Psa 139:7 Where can I go from Your Ruach? Where can I flee from Your presence? Psa 139:8 If I go up to heaven, You are there, and if I make my bed in Sheol, look, You are there too. Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the dawn and settle on the other side of the sea, Psa 139:10 even there Your hand will lead me, and Your right hand will lay hold of me. Psa 139:11 If I say: “Surely darkness covers me, night keeps light at a distance from me,” Psa 139:12 even darkness is not dark for You, and night is as bright as day—darkness and light are alike. God is omnipresentPsa 139:13 For You have created my conscience. You knit me together in my mother’s womb. Psa 139:14 I praise You, for I am awesomely, wonderfully made! Wonderful are Your works—and my soul knows that very well. Psa 139:15 My frame was not hidden from You when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth. Psa 139:16 Your eyes saw me when I was unformed, and in Your book were written the days that were formed—when not one of them had come to be. Where and when was man formed?Scripture does not support your statements
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 4:33:20 GMT -5
Greetings Dave,
those verses are great, but do not really answer your query.
You wrote : "light does not exist in the shadow"
Why didn't you explain what you mean? rather you got defensive? I mean I agree from a science view, umbra shadows are made by definition without light inside the shadow.
Than you get defensive and reply:
D So – your creatures can make a place where God is not
R Well to make shadows you require both God as light, and You blocking the light.
D So – your creatures can limit God
R Shadows do not limit GOD, because the size and intensity of the shadow depends again on both the light, and you blocking the light.
D So – there is a place where you can hide from God
R The shadows observation requires light, hence you cannot hide from GOD.
A shadow cannot exist on it's own. In order for a sinner to do sinning, GOD is required to make the sinner see his own sinning. Otherwise the sinner would see and feel nothing. Everything comes from GOD. And this makes GOD all powerful.
From a science view, the light is not inside an umbra shadow. Therefore GOD does not do the sinning the sinner chooses to do, GOD only allows the sinner to see his own sinning.
Throughout all of our discussions you see to view GOD as a creator and doer of RA. This supports the idea that GOD is "source of sin and also does sinning". You term this His majestic authority.
I note the KJV uses a term God's "Strange act", and is similar to your view.
I don't claim to understand this idea or this theme. However I see GOD as a source of LOVE only. When I see "God creates RA" I see GOD allowing the sinner to do his or her sinning, under the medium God administrates.
Anyhow, I don't feel like discussing confusion, or pondering confusion on this forum anymore. After all Dillion says I should be banned because I am different to both of you guys.
Since when is being different a spiritual crime?
Anyhow I have enjoyed talking with you, even though we disagree.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 22, 2020 10:23:32 GMT -5
You wrote : "light does not exist in the shadow" Why didn't you explain what you mean? R a Medium does not make GOD omnipresent - everywhere, your Science application is wrong. Light is already omnipresent - everywhere, by definition. A medium's purpose is to alter the functional properties of light, Notice the properties of light change when light moves from one media to another media. See – you are speaking of a thing within something else I am speaking of that something else You confuse the two – just to be confused Throughout all of our discussions you see to view GOD as a creator and doer of RA.Creator of – YES! Doer of – NO! – He has a staff for thatThis supports the idea that GOD is "source of sin and also does sinningGod is the source of everything and as for sin / ra it is inherent to – a by-product of creation Because creation = neg-entyropy – therefore entropy exist in creation all who enter creation from heaven - eventualy succumb to it Eve did - Adam did - the bane elohitm did - we all have EXCEPT JESUS CHRIST You term this His majestic authority.You wonder why I get irritated with you at timesThis term came from the video you presented to prove God does no harm Did you watch it – you said it was really heavy for you to understand Now you claim it my term and use your own evidence against meDo you suffer from short term memory loss?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 13:19:10 GMT -5
Sorry Dave, I cannot watch long download video, my prepaid Internet plan runs out fast in if download things too often. My plan is 20G for an entire year. My wife on the other hand goes through 5 G per month !
I am glad that GOD is not a doer of RA, even though GOD creates RA, He has a department GOD created for doing RA, Not sure how these details work in practice, but I will accept your view.
Just curious, not bagging you anymore:
You say :
Because creation = neg-entyropy – therefore entropy exist in creation all who enter creation from heaven - eventually succumb to it
SO does this apply to all of GOD's creative acts, does negative entropy also apply to out new creation of heaven and earth, for the redeemed those humans who chose yester tov, and disdained their own inherent yester ra?
Will these redeemed have to put up with negative entropy such as yester ra again, or do our eternal spirits, not enter a creative body ever again, we just walk around and talk in a spirit body with creation negative entropy in it?
Please detail you views on this:
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 23, 2020 5:46:10 GMT -5
Sorry Dave, I cannot watch long download video, my prepaid Internet plan runs out fast in if download things too often. My plan is 20G for an entire year. My wife on the other hand goes through 5 G per month !
Ouch – hard to be an online presence Here in America – I don’t have a dedicated internet provider I have a T Mobile family account – unlimited talk, text, and data for 2 phones for $70 a month Wherever I am – I just turn on my phones hot-spot and open my laptop and go The kids like it because we have internet while driving the car down the road I like it because I have internet while waiting for my kids to come out of some activity
We stream-link Hulu, Amazon Prime, and youtube all the time – phone says 9.17 GB this month for me alone – sometime we have two laptops per phone online – kids with school – me with work and this forum – and my wife with ?
You say : Because creation = neg-entyropy – therefore entropy exist in creation all who enter creation from heaven - eventually succumb to it
SO does this apply to all of GOD's creative acts, does negative entropy also apply to out new creation of heaven and earth,
It seems to apply to physical creation I have always said ra = entropy and – entropy is inherent to neg-entropy (a bi-product) Wind something up – it runs down – this is just one of the Laws of God Entropy is not necessarily a bad thing – decay – erosion – the slowing down – all serves a vital function
We have no evidence that it happens within the invisible heavens – only visible creation Physical creation – is a cyclic event – birth, growth, and death It applies to plants – animals – man – mountains – planets – galaxies – and eventually the universe will collapse back upon itself
What is the story of man (from the Jewish perspective) we are spirit – that enters this mortal world This mortal world comes with yester ra – a self-survival instinct – self-preservation It is this genetically encoded instinct – that drives the animals A predator commits premeditated murder to eat – is this a sin? It is totally 100% yester ra Jews say – it is not a sin – the animal predator has only self-preservation (yester ra)
Man entered this world – Adam and Eve – they are 100% flesh and bone made of dust animal with yester ra However – God breathed into this animal his soul (Gen 2:7) and man became more that a living creature – man became a living being (soul + (animal)) Soul – the spirit of man – the ghost of man – the essence of man came from the invisible heavens from the presence of God – it only have ever experienced yester tov
Man is now special – we are the creatures that can choose Man is the creature that has both yester ra and yester tov within the same form Man is a duality of nature –
Scripture tells us that all have sinned – all have fallen short – even Adam and Eve who walked and talked with God in this physical world
If you read Enoch – the story is – the bane elohiym came to earth to teach man civilization After they were here – they were attracted to women
Scripture tells us there is only one man that has ever been able to deny his own yester ra and gladly lay His life down for another – Christ How could Christ do this – because Jesus Christ was God Incarnate
Will these redeemed have to put up with negative entropy such as yester ra again
OK – let’s talk Dispensation All Gnostic buys into dispensation in a form All Gnostics divide time up into ‘ages’ /aions
Even after the Millennium – satan still tempts man – so man still is man
UNTIL –
1Jn 3:2 (TLV) Loved ones, now we are God’s children; and it has not yet been revealed what we will be. But we do know that when it’s revealed, we shall be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
1Jn 3:2 (KJV) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Man is changed – after the rapture – after resurrection – man is no longer only 3D mortal with yester ra We are changed – transfigured – as Christ is – a multidimensional being
The changing of man
A new ager might see this as ascending A sci-fi film might have a physical creature morphing into a being of light
But this is nothing new for a Jew Adam and Eve were created immortal – they were never to have a mortal death Oops! – not only do they become mortal – they lose the ability to see all of creation They have been de-evolved
After the flood – man is limited from 1000 yrs to only 120 yrs life span Man is given meat to eat Man again has been de-evolved
At babble – man is not allowed to work together for common cause Man again has been de-evolved
In the end – man is RESTORED to the perfect race of man – as we were with God in the beginning
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2020 14:33:03 GMT -5
SO I get creation from dust comes with yester ra but creating from Spirit only comes with Yester Tov ?
So why did God create man of both forms?
Why not just of spirit form with tov only?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 24, 2020 14:59:54 GMT -5
Very Gnostic – I would agree with this – all physical matter comes with entropy – it is inherent
He did – this is the Perfect Race of Man – created in heaven – created of spirit – before the foundations of the world were laid
During – the First ‘age’ – the First aion God created man for companionship
God created man for companionship The Prodigal Son The robot son loves God – God is in the companionship of all the angels – and man but it is satisfying and bi-directional for God
God is the father that lets his son go into the world of men and archon From God we came – to souljourn here
While we are here – God test us – to see if we love him back – with all heart, mind, and soul More than just heart – more than just mind – but of all three – heart, mind, and soul
If the son returns to God – death in Christ – the Father rewards the son Because man chose God – man doesn't have to – everything in this world denies God’s love But still – some men find their way back to God by choice This is satisfying to the Lord – makes God happy More happy that with the robot son that stayed home
God loves - that is always there But God loves - and Man loves God back - that is bidirectional
But as you say – this type of love comes with risk By letting us go – some never return
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 17:21:50 GMT -5
Hmm? Nice answers
SO matter comes inherently with RA.
Mankind also was created with spirit, not of matter.
OK so why put the spirit into the body of matter?
Question: Why can't GOD make matter without RA? Isn't GOD above all things, including RA?
How does spirit get created without matter in it's creation?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 28, 2020 11:54:02 GMT -5
SO matter comes inherently with RA. YES! Entropy is inherent to matter (creation) it is obvious Even science says – all this universe will cool down and stop
Mankind also was created with spirit, not of matter. YES – man was created as spirit – a thing – an individual thing – unique – stand alone In this form – the First Age / aion – we were in full awareness of God and heaven – because we were there In this form we witnessed Eve with the Serpent in Eden The Contest plays out so all creation can witness it – see it for themselves
OK so why put the spirit into the body of matter? Going to be Jewish here and give you several possible answers
1 – The foundation – we were created for companionship to the Lord 2- The angels were made to serve and praise – Making it up here – just talking out my @*%
Maybe angelic Love is like the love of a loyal puppy – They come when called – they love and lick you – sleep at your feet – worship the ground you feed them on – always there Question – is this as satisfying as the love of a woman – a woman that wants you more than anyone else – a woman that knows all your faults yet still thinks your are a good man Question – as your child dies – as you die – do you turn to your dog or to your spouse They both love you – the dog probably is more loyal and more forgiving and a lot less judgmental Answer – you turn to your spouce because you know you have a bi-directional relationship – an interment relationship – a personal relationship – someone who understands and can relate
The Prodigal son If God loves us – as you say – he loves us to let us go It is special for the both of us – man and God – when man returns to God
Another possible answer – from Rabbi Friedman – Eve chose to enter this world of archon to complete her mission – to witness to this world
We are each sent here to witness – I send you among the wolves (Mat 10)
OR – we love God so much – we volunteer to come and witness In heave maybe you and I watch as Adam failed – Eve failed – Israel failed – man failed – so we said to the Lord – pick me – send me – let me witness for you But – once we are here in 3D physicial land – we begin to forget And by the time we are old enough to make a difference – we are dominated by our own yester ra
Question: Why can't GOD make matter without RA? Isn't GOD above all things, including RA? Not saying that God can not Just reporting that scripture says – He did not
How does spirit get created without matter in it's creation? Spirit is not matter – you cannot find the spirit on an x-ray – spirit is not of this dimension – it is not measured by height, with, and depth Spirit is the stuff of c2 – not the m
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 13:07:46 GMT -5
Hmm?
Your answer "OK so why put the spirit into the body of matter?" does not satisfy?
The only spirit that I know of that came down to earth in a human body was Jesus.
Perhaps you can answer for me, why did Jesus do that? What was He trying to achieve?
Your answer "Spirit is the stuff of c2 – not the m" does not satisfy?
Is not spirit the stuff of GOD? So how can GOD give humans a part of himself? I cannot think of anything in the torah, where GOD can give humans God....not possible?
Please try again, much appreciated. Shalom
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