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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2020 14:41:27 GMT -5
www.ancient-hebrew.org/hebrewnt/23_1john.html# ג
Jeff Benner has the NT in Hebrew, but I can't read Hebrew on it's own.
וּמִי הוּא פֹעֵל אָוֶן מִן־הַשָּׂטָן הוּא כִּי הַשָּׂטָן פֹּעֵל אָוֶן הוּא מִקֶּדֶם וּבַעֲבוּר זֹאת בָּא בֶן־הָאֱלֹהִים לַהֲרֹס פְּעֻלּוֹת הַשָּׂטָן׃ ח
Anyhow it would not help you. You have your world view.
D How much time do you spend in relationship with them?
R Government rulers are not spiritual rulers. I obey them as torah say I have to, but we also have spiritual rulers over us.
R Would this is unfair, if humans die for sinning, but angels who do sinning don't?
D Show me a passage that says God is fair – from man’s perspective God introduced Himself only to the 1% And it is their job to martyr for the Lord – what is fair to the 1% - or to the rest of the planet You avoid this question – you God of Love only introduces Himself to every one – why?
R SO God is not a God of love for humanity? God doesn't reach all humans and give them choice of salvation? Sin has different meanings for different creatures?
You say yes to all these questions. I say no.
D You avoid this question – you God of Love only introduces Himself to every one – why?
R Ro 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Its not necessary for a head hunter in PNG to know the gospel as the Jews have to be saved. You can be saved by the HS talking to you in the cultural settings and laws you choose to live by. Thus God reaches all humans.
You say Satan was sinning immediately upon his birth:
Do humans in a fallen world sin immediately upon his birth? Or you they become sinners after a time, dealing with GOD and the opposing ruler? In order for angels to achieve this idea of yours they have to be robotically programmed. No time to think and choose.
Jude 1:6 And <te> the angels <aggelos> which kept <tereo> not <me> their <heautou> first estate <arche>, but <alla> left <apoleipo> their own <idios> habitation <oiketerion>
Several Greek terms disagree with you here:
tereo " guard
to guard. there must be a choice to guard
heautou a comparison, so there must be TOV and RA to compare in a relationship. Thus all angels were always good, some became bad, a comparison "heautou"
apoleipo " left
These words do not suggest angels immediately sinning upon their birth.
You didn't answer a question I posed:
Is Alex the grey African parrot just a dumb robotic program responding to her human masters love?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 13, 2020 16:57:15 GMT -5
www.ancient-hebrew.org/hebrewnt/23_1john.html# ג Jeff Benner has the NT in Hebrew, but I can't read Hebrew on it's own. Anyhow it would not help you. You have your world view. And every translation that supports my viewD How much time do you spend in relationship with them? R Government rulers are not spiritual rulers. I obey them as torah say I have to, but we also have spiritual rulers over us. OK – so how much time do you spend with them How much time do you spend with your ruler satanand if you say you sare not ruled by satan - then how can you say everyone else is D You avoid this question – you God of Love only introduces Himself to every one – why?Its not necessary for a head hunter in PNG to know the gospel as the Jews have to be saved. You can be saved by the HS talking to you in the cultural settings and laws you choose to live by. Thus God reaches all humans. So just many different religions has your god spawned on planet earth Was Christ also the Buddha? Or Shiva? People do not have to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved You think it ok to pray to another god for salvation? Long live Islam So YHWY is not the One True God It is Ok to have other Gods from your own culture Long live Islam You say Satan was sinning immediately upon his birth: Do humans in a fallen world sin immediately upon his birth? There you go – angels are just like men Man is born as a small immature baby – so also angles are small babies at one time What a ridicules comparison – you just anthropomorphize the heavens
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2020 14:16:53 GMT -5
D OK – so how much time do you spend with them How much time do you spend with your ruler satan and if you say you sare not ruled by satan - then how can you say everyone else is R Torah says sinning came first from an angel who sinned, thus opposing GOD. For this the angel gets a English title similar in spelling to the Hebrew, "Satan". People who sin, directly or indirectly are "children of the Father of SIn". Often we sin because of Self, a fruit caused by Sin itself. Other times sin comes from temptations wicked angels speak into our conscience. Satan talks and tries to influence us when we are closest to GOD, otherwise He tends to leave us alone, if are dead in our sinning already. People sinning are generally lost, and thus subjects to their Ruler, Satan, who is a ruler over them. You can be conditioned by this ruler simply by listening to His voices, drinking his pleasures or listening to his music, etc.
We are not to judge others, lest we be judged.
D People do not have to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved R a prophecy, hence why the SDA exists:
Mt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
We believe as a CHurch a commission to take the gospel to all tribes, nations and tongues as a witness of Jesus saving them. This Jews were supposed to do, but didn't in OT times.
D What a ridicules comparison – you just anthropomorphize the heavens
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
If we do not evaluate things based on our present understanding of things, we cannot evaluate anything.
DO you want me to stop talking to you, after all, all things we read may or may not be about anything at all. God says man is on earth, He is in heaven, so let our words be few.
Evolution does that same thing, the present is a key to our past. All we have is words, the words only from the Tanak.
So you don't like Romans 1:20?
When Jude says angels left their beginnings, I read this plainly. They are once perfect than decided to be no onger perfect.
You twist this to mean something else.
Humans were also once perfect, now longer perfect. Lions were once vegetarian now no longer eat grass.
Things change. You say the change in those angels was designed immediately from their birth. I say the changes came about from their sinning, much later.
D you just anthropomorphize the heavens
R No, I just look at similes in Scripture and make judgements about them.
SImiles are not the same thing but they are similar. spiritualsprings.org/ss-1569.htm
I love poetry, and making similes. Here is a simile. A Dam. The Dam was my grandfather.
Two rivers run slowly, an' shiver, While a dam hold her sweetly, As two lovers draw nearer. Life is a river, a dam fed you some, Clear was it's water, Traditionally done, Though stains bring death, The river still rings, And to your love, Still we clings Few rivers runs this age. Two people softly sailing, Two rivers trifley trickling, Through Satan's coating. We carry on your life, Young rolling streams, Now washed anew.
Poetry is about similes, making pictures of something to represent something else. You say "you just anthropomorphize Nature" No, not really. I use Nature and things to make similes of spiritual things. Scripture does the same thing.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 14, 2020 15:09:20 GMT -5
D OK – so how much time do you spend with them How much time do you spend with your ruler satan and if you say you are not ruled by satan - then how can you say everyone else is R Torah says sinning came first from an angel who sinned, thus opposing GOD. For this the angel gets a English title similar in spelling to the Hebrew, "Satan". People who sin, directly or indirectly are "children of the Father of SIn". Often we sin because of Self, a fruit caused by Sin itself. Other times sin comes from temptations wicked angels speak into our conscience. Satan talks and tries to influence us when we are closest to GOD, otherwise He tends to leave us alone, if are dead in our sinning already. People sinning are generally lost, and thus subjects to their Ruler, Satan, who is a ruler over them. You can be conditioned by this ruler simply by listening to His voices, drinking his pleasures or listening to his music, etc. OK – nice speech – are you ruled by satan or notD Question - People do not have to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved?R a prophecy, hence why the SDA exists:Mt 24:14 We believe as a Church a commission to take the gospel to all tribes, nations and tongues as a witness of Jesus saving them. This Jews were supposed to do, but didn't in OT times. Its not necessary for a head hunter in PNG to know the gospel So which theology do you hold as trueThe gospel is to taught to the whole world – or the head hunter doesn’t have to know? Can he just worship his CULTURAL gods - you told me these cultural gods were actulayy God's love spread amoung the 99% Evolution does that same thing, the present is a key to our past. All we have is words, the words only from the Tanak. So you don't like Romans 1:20?WOW – you should really read my paper on Incremental Creation Oh ya – you did – you said I said nothingD you just anthropomorphize the heavens R No, I just look at similes in Scripture and make judgements about them. YES – for you everything must be a metaphor Don’t you care about the TRUTH behind the metaphor?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 13:12:32 GMT -5
D OK – nice speech – are you ruled by satan or not R My personally? No, I am ruled by Jesus. D So which theology do you hold as true R In the end of time, that causes time to close, the gospel of Jesus must reach all nations as a witness. But before this time, nations could be saved on the light they live up to. So both themes can be true.
D YES – for you everything must be a metaphor Don’t you care about the TRUTH behind the metaphor? R I do. A long time ago you didn't like the cherub chata idea in the torah. Now you argue the cherub chata verse is fine, only that the cherub sinned immediately upon his birth, not gradually over time, as I claim. So you changed discussions a year later.
So now I have to find verses to argue that the cherub did not sin immediately upon his birth: so back to the Ezekiel verse who ignore as a metaphor:
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
This verse clearly says the cherub was perfect from birth until he began sinning. Don’t you care about the TRUTH behind the metaphor? Your own words.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 15, 2020 13:50:15 GMT -5
D OK – nice speech – are you ruled by satan or not R My personally? No, I am ruled by Jesus. Then how can you say all mankind is ruled by satan
D YES – for you everything must be a metaphor Don’t you care about the TRUTH behind the metaphor? R I do. A long time ago you didn't like the cherub chata idea in the torah. Now you argue the cherub chata verse is fine, only that the cherub sinned immediately upon his birth, not gradually over time, as I claim. So you changed discussions a year later.
Misrepresent me so that you can argue Cherub chata is scripture – but it has nothing to so with your satan or the First Archon You just lump all creatures big and small into one evil god named satan All hail your satan god – that you must have to support the Great Cotroversy
Courious 1- you critisize what I post 2- yet you do not know what I post
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. This is not about the Beast – or the Dragon – or the devil – or even your satan But you do not care to know the difference
Courious 1- you critisize what I post 2- yet you do not know what I post 3- you have no idea what the difference between the Dragon - the devil - the false prophet - and your satan 4- yet - anything anyone else says - must be in absolute error especially - if it is Jewish
because the Jews laugh at youur satan ideas Who can oppose God?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 14:25:43 GMT -5
D Then how can you say all mankind is ruled by satan R Most of us choose not to be saved by Jesus. D Cherub chata is scripture – but it has nothing to so with your satan or the First Archon You just lump all creatures big and small into one evil god named satan
R I see. OK fix my error. You explain your view clearly ina few words, like I do.
Doesn't Scripture lump all those who "oppose" as "opposers" of God and Man?
When asked who sowed the tares, Jesus replied an enemy did this? No details given, just simple opposer did this.
D Courious 1- you critisize what I post 2- yet you do not know what I post R OK fix the problem Dave.
D 3- you have no idea what the difference between the Dragon - the devil - the false prophet - and your satan 4- yet - anything anyone else says - must be in absolute error especially - if it is Jewish
OK so fix the problem Dave, tell me what you believe in simple sentences.
D because the Jews laugh at youur satan ideas Who can oppose God? R yes especially if a creature opposes a Creator? Is such a thing possible?
I will be like the Most High.
Is this not opposing GOD?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 15, 2020 17:11:19 GMT -5
D OK – nice speech – are you ruled by satan or not R My personally? No, I am ruled by Jesus. Then how can you say all mankind is ruled by satan
Gen 1:2 – Choshek
Play a game with me = PRETEND If I was a Jewish Dad – attempting to explain the complexity of the multiverse to my small daughter – this is the sun day school class I would have
1-Not in the beginning – but before our beginning there was only God God existed before Gen 1:0 – to have companionship* He Gen 1:1
2- He “fattened” Himself – into invisible spirit (which is Holy = HS) and into visible corporeal creation (His Image = Christ) God did not make something from nothing – E can only be translated (invisible distance = spirit) or transmuted (form = visible image) John 1:1-4 re-affirms that GOD = HS = Christ = the Creator To say Christ or God is the Creator is correct = because the GOD = HS = Christ = the Creator
3- God created everything – including the ra Why did God create the ra – only He knows – God’s mysterious ways – no man knows the mind of God There is only God’s Will – God’s Plan
4 – God created the heavenly beings around Him Angels of 9 different orders (the lowest order of angels = Principalities = archon) Each order of angel – looks different – and serves a different function Each individual angel = an individual spirit
5 - Not only did God create the angels and archon ** But God also created the perfect Race of man – in heaven – spirit beings – souls Each soul is an individual spirit
5 - The First age of Creation – Gen 1:1 – 2 Something happened there that resulted in the choshek From the ahl – we have Jer 4 - before the foundation of the world, while earth was still without form and void
This cannot go on in the presence of the Lord – NOT ALLOWED And God separated the choshek
Jer 4:28 For this doth the land mourn, And black have been the heavens above, because I have spoken—I have purposed, And I have not repented, Nor do I turn back from it.
Why does the land (earth mourn?) – because it becomes the home of the archon Rev 12:7 – is KJV translated as war – when the word means a full range of rebuke
**** How does this happen – Gen 1:3 – the Light Christ ****
Who does it – God does Why does God do it? (#3) 3- God created everything – including the ra Man might not understand why – but God says “trust me” so I do
Nag Hammadi – only adds – the creation story of the archon and their hierarchy The Nag Hammadi does not subtract from Judaism in any way The Nag Hammad was written by the same authors that walked, and talked with Jesus Christ – both before and after His resurrection The Nag Hammadi was found at the same time as the Dead Sea Scrolls and the rebirth of the Nation of Israel The Nag Hammadi does not subtract from Christianity at all In fact – the Nag Hammadi – calls for a more committed spiritual communion with the HS In fact – the Nag Hammadi – calls Christians to be born again- a spiritual awakening In fact the Nag Hammadi – warns us of church and its leaders who desire power, wealth, and fame – who hide the truth – and preach the precepts of men (or women)
6- The Age of Adam and Eve The earth is the domain of the archon – and has been since Gen 1:2 God placed Adam and Eve in Eden – smack in the middle of the archon’s domain But to quote Robert – God had a hedge around them = Eden
7- Where did Adam and Eve come from? ** We were created as spirit beings back in the beginning *** We existed as spirit beings in full awareness of God
8- How did Adam and Eve come down from heaven into an animal’s body? God made the Body in Gen 1:27 ** We were created as spirit beings back in the beginning *** We existed as spirit beings in full awareness of God God mated our souls into our bodies at Gen 2:7
Man is special – we are different Simple answer = Angel’s only have yester tov Archon’s only have yester ra
Man is the only creature with yester tov (soul – spirit being) That is born into an (Mind/Body) yester ra animal Man = (soul + (Mind/Body) We are the creatures that can choose – between yester ra and yester tov
9- God test man – God knows he loves us – how does He truly know we love Him back as He deserves – or as he desires Scripture says – God test man
10- How does God test man? James says – God does not do it directly Job tells us that God uses satan to do the testing 2 Sam 24:1 / 1 Ch 21:1 satan works for God
11- Why does God test man To see if we love Him with all our heart, mind, and soul – Deu 8:2 We are all the sons of God We have all sinned and forgotten God seek for the Prodigal Son – whom gets greater reward
Why - *to have companionship ** - Not only did God create the angels and archon But God also created the perfect Race of man – in heaven – spirit beings – souls Each soul is an individual spirit ** We were created as spirit beings back in the beginning *** We existed as spirit beings in full awareness of God Returning to God from this physical souljourn = the Prodigal Son Why = *to have close companionship = Love
12- How can or does man pass these tests? Only by perfect obedience – Enoch and Elsah (were they perfect? Evidently perfect enough for God to use) Since we are not them = we are judge by our deeds (the head hunter in PNG) If we are Jewish believers = we are judged by our deeds + our works – or Divine Pardon If we are Christian – we are judged by our deeds + works + FRUIT And the more reward we earn – the more judgmental the judgment Or Divine Pardon – death in Christ **** How does this happen – Gen 1:3 – the Light Christ ****
13—what is the Contest of Gen 3:15 Man is special - We are the creatures that can choose – between tester ra and yester tov
OK – where is the yester tov we need to listen to – deep within us – our soul From Heaven we came – ** We were created as spirit beings back in the beginning *** We existed as spirit beings in full awareness of God God knew us specifically and gave each of us a mission To remember what you once knew – and reveal God’s Glory to all creation
However – God has placed us here smack in the middle of the archon’s domain It is the archon’s world – home of the ra-ites
Adam and Eve walked shoulder to shoulder with them They corrupted a mankind save Noah
Now they continue to plague us – as spirits – or as demi-god beings (DNA-link) Rephiem
14- is man alone in the contest? YES! – if he chooses to be – because of his Free Will gift How does man choose to be alone – by following the desires of yester ra Does the archon – rule this man – NO – worldly ‘peer pressure’ as you said has done it job
Can the archon – attack individuals – all the time – anything to keep the world distracted by the world
15 – How do the archon operate There is an entire army of archon arrayed against us – each with a different area of responsibility Vaccine archon – warmongering archon – deep state archon – religious archon – Freemasonry – Islam - Other gods – other gods – and other gods Anything that keeps man dwelling / focused on yester ra and not yester tov
Can the archon spirits rule you – YES! – it is called possession
16 - Can the angels help man – all the time = guardian angels Does God intervene and grant Pardon – Zec 3 – anytime He wants God hand – works through man via the HS Sometimes simple – in the right place at the right time A door open you thought would not Each – a mini miracle – used to facilitate God’s Will Sometimes in a major way **** How does this happen – Gen 1:3 – the Light Christ ****
17 -Does God intervene? He can reach down and grab anyone He want and use them – for God’s Will / God’s Plan God can even ‘predestine’ a soul to it fate
18- What is “Hell”? Hell in 1611 only meant to ‘hide away out of sight’ Today in England and Ireland they still “Hell” the potatoes after harvest
English hell comes from the Greek word Hades G86 - ᾅδης - hadēs - From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: Hades = the unseen After death – we all go to hades – the good and the bad – because we are no longer seen However, within hell there = 2 Peter 2:4 G5020 – ταρταρόω - Tartaros̄ (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment: - cast down to hell.
19 - Who is the Beast It is home in the Choshek – the darkness – the abyss – the Lake of Fire- Tartarus̄ Rev 20:10 – we see that it at home in the Lake of Fire Rev 13:1 (TLV) Then I saw a beast rising out of the sea, that had ten horns and seven heads. On his horns were ten royal crowns, and upon his heads were slanderous names.
Why does this beast come out of the sea – God of the Sea vrs God in the Sea
Nag Hammadi says – the Chief Archon has 7 Generals (rulers) and 12 Captains (my title assignments) Why 12 invisible = 12 tribes Why 10 visible = 10 royal crowns – nation states – the Kingdom of the North
20 - Who is the devil Anyone of the Chief Archon’s henchmen assigned to our area of responsibility– or the ‘sar’ of this world Not bound to the Abyss – active on the ground
21 - Who is Allah – he is the god that rules all the ‘other gods’ of the Levant Words straight from the Koran
Is Allah – the ‘sar’ of this world? I think more like – Allah = the ‘sar’ of Persia As in Siddhartha is the ‘sar’ of China And Shiva is the ‘sar’ of India Oden – the ‘sar’ of Norseland Etc, etc, etc
All archon – of specific areas of responsibility
22 - Who is satan – any being (including God) that is acting in that function
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Post by Dave on Sept 15, 2020 18:00:27 GMT -5
Not in the beginning – but before our beginning there was only God God existed before Gen 1:0 – *to have companionship* He Gen 1:1
5 - But God also created the perfect Race of man – in heaven – spirit beings – souls Each soul is an individual spirit ** ** We were created as spirit beings back in the beginning *** We existed as spirit beings in full awareness of God
Eze 28:1 (TLV) The word of Adonai came to me saying: Eze 28:2 “Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, thus says Adonai Elohim: ‘So your heart is exalted and you say, “I am a god! I sit in the seat of the gods in the heart of the seas!” Yet you are human, not a god, even if you set up your heart like the heart of a god. Say – to the Prince of Ryre – a human – a man and you make satan a god
Eze 28:3 See, you are wiser than Daniel! No secret is hidden from you! Eze 28:4 By your wisdom and by understanding you have made wealth for yourself and have gathered gold and silver into your treasuries. Eze 28:5 In your great skill, by your trade, you have increased your wealth, so your heart is exalted by your wealth.’” Does satan trade for souls? Gold / silver / and merchandise = yester ra desires of a man
Eze 28:6 Therefore thus says Adonai Elohim: “Because you have set up your heart like the heart of God, Eze 28:7 behold, I will bring strangers against you, the ruthless of the nations. They will draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom. They will defile your splendor. Eze 28:8 They will bring you down to the Pit. You will die the death of those slain in the heart of the seas. Stranger, ruthless nations – of other men’s yester ra – will defile your splendor How does being ruled by your satan = defiling his splendor
Eze 28:9 Will you still say, ‘I am a god’ before the one who slays you? Yet you are man, and not a god, in the hand of those who pierce you. You are a man
Eze 28:10 You will die the deaths of the uncircumcised at the hand of strangers. For I have spoken.” It is a declaration of Adonai. You will die a mortal death – at the hand of strangers – other men
Eze 28:11 The word of Adonai came to me saying: Eze 28:12 “Son of man, lift up a lament for the king of Tyre. Say to him, thus says Adonai Elohim: ‘You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. Say to the King of Tyre – a man – a human
Eze 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God. Every precious stone was your covering—ruby, topaz and diamond, beryl, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and emerald—your settings and your sockets a workmanship of gold—in the day you were created they were prepared. Eze 28:14 You were an anointed guardian cheruv. I placed you on the holy mountain of God. You walked among stones of fire. Eze 28:15 You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you.
*to have companionship* Gen 1:1 God created the perfect Race of man – in heaven – spirit beings – souls Each soul is an individual spirit ** ** We were created as spirit beings back in the beginning *** We existed as spirit beings in full awareness of God
We could see what went on in the Garden – and yet – yester ra takes us over in a few months of being in an animal’s body
Man is this person
Eze 28:16 By the abundance of your trade they filled you within with violence. So you have sinned. So I threw you out as a profane thing from the mountain of God. I made you vanish, guardian cheruv, from among the stones of fire. Eze 28:17 Your heart was exalted because of your beauty. You corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. I threw you down to the earth. Before kings I set you up as a spectacle. YES! – man must die a mortal death – then judged to return – to what we once had and knew Before the Kings of earth – you will be a spectacle = and we are still talking about his error in judgment
Eze 28:18 “‘By the multitude of your iniquities, in the injustice of your trade, you profaned your sanctuaries. So I brought fire out from within you, and it has consumed you. I have turned you to ashes on the earth in the eyes of all who saw you. Ashes to ashes and dust to dust – The man – human – King of Tyre – is dead
Eze 28:19 All who know you among the people will be appalled at you. You have become a horror and will be nothing forever.’” A Great Lesson for the Contest Don’t get to big for your britches
AND BEFORE YOU CRY ABOUT THE WORD CHERUB God existed before Gen 1:0 – *to have companionship* He Gen 1:1 God created the perfect Race of man – in heaven – spirit beings – souls Each soul is an individual spirit ** ** We were created as spirit beings back in the beginning *** We existed as spirit beings in full awareness of God
We were little angels - in the presence of God
The Contest
1- I teacher has a nice quite bunch of students 2- Why does a classroom decend into chaos when the teacher leaves the room 3- But everyone jumps back into their seats as the teacher returns
1a the Kids are nice in the prescence of the teacher - and the teacher thinks all the kids are nice 1b in heaven - in the presence of God - we were nice - didn't know any other way
2a - the teacher leaves the room - one yester ra speaks up - then another - then chaos Why - because they think they are out of the teachers view 2a.1 -but the truth = the teacher is standing in the hallway watching a video monitor and sees and hears everything
2b man comes to earth from the presence of God - and because we are limited to this physicial realm we feel as if we are out of God's view 2b.1 - but the truth = God and all the heavens can watch us like a theater production all the world is a stage for the gods (Shakeshpere) They all see and hear everything
3- But everyone jumps back into their seats as the teacher returns 3a The difference is - the teacher and God both know your nice exterior is a facaid that we wear in public They have both seen the real us in action
This is the curse of Mortal Blindness From then on - the more amd more we tell ourselves or God we are nice The more and more God know we are liers
If we could see us - as God sees us - we would weap with shame We would gnosis - we need His Mercy - His Grace - His gift of John 3:16
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 14:23:41 GMT -5
Greetings Dave, a nice long reply explaining things It will take quite some time to digest all these words. Just letting you I appreciate this. 3- God created everything – including the ra Why did God create the ra – only He knows – God’s mysterious ways – no man knows the mind of God There is only God’s Will – God’s PlanThis causes a closing down of discussion. You cannot explain why GOD creates both tov and ra in our world. Only that Ra happened. My understanding that RA came from Sin. Therefore you cannot explain the origin of Sin. Everything else is secondary in nature to this one foundation. You do not have an origin of sin. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 17, 2020 12:45:49 GMT -5
3- God created everything – including the ra Why did God create the ra – only He knows – God’s mysterious ways – no man knows the mind of God There is only God’s Will – God’s Plan1- This causes a closing down of discussion. 2- You cannot explain why GOD creates both tov and ra in our world. Only that Ra happened. 3- My understanding that RA came from Sin. 4- Therefore you cannot explain the origin of Sin. 5- Everything else is secondary in nature to this one foundation. 6- You do not have an origin of sin. 1- This causes a closing down of discussion. Gee - I was hoping it would become deeper and more meaningful but you are busy disagreeing with me - just to disagree - because I will not consider satan a creator or a god - he is just an angel doing his job 2- You cannot explain why GOD creates both tov and ra in our world. Only that Ra happened. I can only repeat what scripture says Isaiah 45:7 God created the ra – I accept scripture WHY - Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. God is the only Creator God created everything – even the powers and principalities (archie) BY God – FOR GOD This makes God absolute – you asked once what this means – there you are 3- My understanding that RA came from Sin. BOOM - Ra came from God – you deny scripture – you empower another creator – another god 4- Therefore you cannot explain the origin of Sin. Prove to me that Exk 28:15 was the first thing that happened in the universe that created the choshek of Gen 1:2 or answers the war of Jer 4 All I can report to you – is the creation story of the First Archon Which does happen In Gen 1:2 and reported on in Jer 4 5- Everything else is secondary in nature to this one foundation. That God is absolute – there is only God – there is only God’s Will and God’s Plan This is an absolute that I trust in The Great Controversy is not the FOUNDATION of all theology – it is a doctrine invented by man to make things simple for the gullable 6- You do not have an origin of sin. Prove to me that Exk 28:15 was the first thing that happened in the universe that created the choshek of Gen 1:2 or answers the war of Jer 4 All I can report to you – is the creation story of the First Archon Which does happen In Gen 1:2 and reported on in Jer 4
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 13:43:06 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Prove to me that Exk 28:15 was the first thing that happened in the universe that created the choshek of Gen 1:2 or answers the war of Jer 4 All I can report to you – is the creation story of the First Archon Which does happen In Gen 1:2 and reported on in Jer 4Why must I prove a theory of faith to you, when you should have your own theory of faith well established? Here is what I wrote about RA, and GOD creating RA, years ago before I even met you: spiritualsprings.org/ss-848.htmMy conclusion is interesting: " It's your choice of where in the spectrum of GOD's power flow do you want to be. " Please read the website, takes a few minutes of your time. Now you ask WHEN did RA come over our world? First you have to acknowledge that GOD declared our Creation "very good", that means "Very functional" But Ra means "dysfunctional", according to Jeff Benner. But you got me to see that "choshek" is technically a "natural RA effect". SO Scripture is not so easy to read as I thought it was. Einstein says "darkness" does not exist, so it is defined only by humans, and only s seen as an absence of light. Notice this verse though: Pr 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: The HS was brought forth as birth pains, Before human CREATION, we are told. Why? The medium was obviously dealing with "choshek" before Creation of humans started. SO the question we have to ask if why was the Medium called forth? Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Anointed angels walked up and down the stones of fire, near God's throne. Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, All the angels were perfect in the days of their own creation. I get you questioning the text does not say all angels were perfect, however it uses the Hebrew word "cherub", Scripture does not make "cherub" into different categories of angels, etc, just a single Hebrew word is used, meaning all the angels in their created kind. Just as the Hebrew word "adam" refers to "humans", not all the different functions of humans in the human kind. Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. The torah says here that cherub chata, that some angels began sinning. When did this sinning of these angels begin? From the use of "choshek" before creation of humans, so the medium was called forth, to allow sinning angels to be observed without destroying them, since they are missing portions of God's powers flowing through them. Now is it possible for GOD to create a universe for man, without RA in it, even though I acknowledge some RA was already in the universe? It says the Creation for humans was very functional. So when did more RA happen to our universe ? When humans began sinning. I see parallels here. Angels began sinning so the universe has some RA affects in it, now man begins sinning as so more RA floods into our world. So the RA origin has to be because of sin. Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. Interesting account, do you have any comments? Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. This verse links " choshek" to a power of Satan, thus there is an origin of RA, coming from the sinning of angels who left their first estate and their beginnings, by choosing to sin. Notice this verse includes the "sin" theme, the "forgiveness of sin" grants humans freedom from "choshek" or "ra". Isa 27:1 ¶ In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea. Why does GOD slay the dragon in the sea? A poetry simile of Satan? Eze 29:3 Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself. You say the poetry simile speaks of man only, with SELF as the enemy.... I get your point, but does this word also point to something else? Re 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: Who is this dragon, with a third of the stars of heaven? Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Seems like the dragon is an angel, with angel warriors fighting first in heaven. Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Notice this verse links angels, Satan and Dragon as all the same theme. SO RA, came from a war over sinning, first in heaven, long before humans were created. Perhaps this is why humans were created, to deal with sin in the universe ? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 17, 2020 15:10:09 GMT -5
5- Everything else is secondary in nature to this one foundation. That God is absolute – there is only God – there is only God’s Will and God’s Plan This is an absolute that I trust in The Great Controversy is not the FOUNDATION of all theology – it is a doctrine invented by man to make things simple for the gullable
Official position (Wiki) One of the 28 fundamental beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists states: All humanity is now involved in a great controversy between Christ and Satan regarding the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe.
This is strange vocabulary for me 1- the controversy is between Christ and satan 2- the battel is over ‘the character of God’ Confused – you present a satan hates God version – waring over the soul of man for their respective Kingdoms But the Official position is a battel over the character of God – it isn’t a war at all – but a question What is the character of God?
This conflict originated in heaven when a created being, endowed with freedom of choice, in self-exaltation became Satan, God's adversary. 1- I do not accept that angels have the ability to hate God I do not accept that angels have the ability to – refuse their assignments Enoch tells us some angels are tasked maintain the orbits of the planets and the stoking of the fires of the stars – I hope they don’t get tired and quit
If God made a turtle to be a turtle – it can only be a turtle
You speak of satan having free will Yet when I point out to you that satan will is always to obey God – you choke
He led into rebellion a portion of the angels. This assumes that all the angels ‘choose’ to follow satan As in they choose against God This assumes that God cannot make his own realm tov – it diminished God and elevates the angels to position of Catholic Respect they do not deserve
He introduced the spirit of rebellion into this world when he led Adam and Eve into sin. The archon were already cast from heaven to the earth The archon were here first God introduced Adam and Eve into the archon’s realm – earth
This human sin resulted in the distortion of the image of God in humanity, the disordering of the created world, and its eventual devastation at the time of the worldwide flood. Distorting the image of God
The First Book of Adam and Eve 8:1 THEN Adam wept and said, "O God, when we dwelt in the garden, and our hearts were lifted up, we saw the angels that sang praises in heaven, but now we do not see as we were used to do; nay, when we entered the cave, all creation became hidden from us."
2 Then God the Lord said unto Adam, "When thou wast under subjection to Me, thou hadst a bright nature within thee, and for that reason couldst thou see things afar off. But after thy transgression thy bright nature was withdrawn from thee; and it was not left to thee to see things afar off, but only near at hand; after the ability of the flesh; for it is brutish."
the disordering of the created world Or the world was allowed to fully express itself Sum of all chaos
Observed by the whole creation, this world became the arena of the universal conflict, How can all of creation see this – if we are not there to see it? Jews say – we right there in heaven watching – you totally reject this idea Gnostic say - this world is the contest field
out of which the God of love will ultimately be vindicated. Vindicated? – need this word explained Ultimately the God of love will purge creation of the ra – by casting it all into the Lake of Fire – just as he purged and entire planet of people – or entire cities of people – or entire tribes of people AND – this is after He only introduces Himself to the 1%
There is a much larger game – a much larger reality to God’s plan
To assist His people in this controversy, Christ sends the Holy Spirit and the loyal angels to guide, protect, and sustain them in the way of salvation. YES! – Agree – guardian angels – and the Comforter, which is the HS, which is the Spirit of God, which is Christ
The Nag Hammadi adds – more detail to the archon’s role in this Contest It tells us their creation story It tells us their location – their appearance – and a lot of their special skills (areas of responsibility)
The Nag Hammadi also tells us that we should not be concerned with them or their action – why – because they are not gods – they are just selfish being beyond our field of view – that manipulate us Run them up on a pole and see them for who they are –
The urgency for attaining perfection comes from the knowledge that the remnant must live perfectly during the "time of trouble" I don’t think this is even Christian Who among us is perfect – scripture says – no one
The call for perfection is to introduce doubt Paul – Roman 7 – was not perfect – He was a Christian ashamed of his body
The urgency for attaining perfection comes from the knowledge that the remnant must live perfectly during the "time of trouble" at the end to prove to the universe that fallen human beings can keep the law of God. Wait a minute – you reject this idea in its entirety Rabbi Friedman said – 1- The mission / commission / the purpose of man – is to be a prophet to all the nations (visible and invisible) 2- Adam and Eve were in paradise – Eden 3- Eve knew – they could not complete their mission in paradise – she knew they were to enter this world of the archon 4- Why = to prove to the universe (invisible) that fallen human beings (visible) = God’s Glory
She explains this is necessary because the "earthliness" of the remnant must be cleansed Yes! – our earthly garments that our soul wears must be cleansed – purified – by Proportional Punishment – or Divine Pardon
that the image of Christ may be perfectly reflected: Sure we are to become a Christ (gnostic)
White emphasizes that attaining God's blessing will mean denying self: "Those who are unwilling to deny self, to agonize before God, to pray long and earnestly for His blessing, will not obtain it. Wrestling with God–how few know what it is!" (GC 621). Poor Apostle Paul – can never attain salvation
Ellen White in The Great Controversy and in her other writings does not link perfection to something that happens from the believer, but with what God does for the believer through Christ.
YES! There is a popular song in America It is not because of what I’ve done – but because of who you are It is not because of what I’ve done – But because of what you did
Jewish version God created everything – and everything is there because of God and for God The Rabbi will say – as you see a car go by – you can see God The Rabbi say – as war come upon you – you can see God Satan is a tool used by God to facilitate His Will – His Plan
Judaism also has a few loose ends – Lillith – shedim – the Book of Solomon – the Key of Solomon – the Book of Creation – the Book of Jubilees But Judaism has a ‘first age of time situation’ with Adam and Lillith
Gnostic version God created everything – and everything is there because of God and for God Satan is a tool used by God to facilitate His Will – His Plan AND there is another group / race / collection / tribe of beings called archon They have a First One – they have a hierarchy of authority – and there are a lot of them They are the other players of Gen 3:15 – man vrs archon
Just as - To assist His people in this controversy (contest) Christ sends the Holy Spirit and the loyal angels to guide, protect, and sustain them in the way of salvation.
Is this all about satan gaining souls for his private kingdom? What would he do with them – watch them die
Is this about Christ winning souls for God We are already God’s children – whether we recognize it or not We will all be judge - whether we believe it or not
Christ was stuck up on a cross for the whole world to see Christ was resurrected for the whole world to see To see that Jesus is the Christ – to see that there really is ‘life after death’ To see that when we die – we will be there with Moses and Christ – in front of God
These are the facts as I see them So what are we to do with this information?
There is an afterlife – and Christ, and Moses, and God are there We will meet them some day – them what?
The Psychology of Understanding By David Freed 06/20/2006 There is a grave stone, in Northern Indiana, with the most fascinating verse engraved upon the front.
It simply says: As you are, I once was and as I am, you soon will be.
Short, simple, straight to the point and perhaps the most profound revelation of mortality. We are all going to die sooner or later. So then, the next most important question becomes - Then what? - is there something more? The question for me is not whether there is a God and an afterlife! The question, for me as a man, is if there is a God and an afterlife, and I do eventually meet my maker; will I be able to look Him straight in the eye and shake His hand, or will I be ashamed and embarrassed for who I really am?
Conclusion – we all need the Divine Pardon that is Christ How do I get this Divine Pardon – Seek ye first the Kingdom of heaven – we ask for it – we beg for it – we never stop knocking on that door – 24/7 - and do on to others as Christ did for us
What did Christ do for us He existed in heaven with the HS and God – John 1:1-4 He left his first estate – He came to earth – He came to earth as a mortal man He came with a mission – witness and die to be resurrected – to reveal God’s Glory to all creation (visible and invisible)
We are made in God / Christ image From God we came – souljourned here in the world – then we return to God The difference = we are the creature with both yester tov and ra The difference – we are the creature with the free will choice between the two options The difference – we are the creature judged on our performance by God Himself Are the angels judged – yes – by man What is the result of this man judgement – we are not told
The Rabbi say – it would depend on the man A non-believer would hate the archon for deceiving them – judge them harshly – drag them to hell for good copany A believer might – have pity – mercy – and say something like ‘Forgive them for they don’t understand what they do’
Either way – scripture does not tell us their fate Other than they are judged
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Post by Dave on Sept 17, 2020 15:24:06 GMT -5
Prove to me that Exk 28:15 was the first thing that happened in the universe that created the choshek of Gen 1:2 or answers the war of Jer 4 All I can report to you – is the creation story of the First Archon Which does happen In Gen 1:2 and reported on in Jer 4
Why must I prove a theory of faith to you, OK – then please present a consistant theology that fit all of scripture
But Ra means "dysfunctional", according to Jeff Benner. Actually – Jeff to me at a post at AHR Ra is the movement toward ra Tov is the movement toward tov
Pr 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: The HS was brought forth as birth pains, Before human CREATION, we are told. SO the question we have to ask if why was the Medium called forth?
The medium – the ether – the matrix of the multiverse had to come first – to build the rest upon But this would make God omnipresent - everywhere - and everything as in absolute - you deny this
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 15:28:48 GMT -5
D Pr 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: The HS was brought forth as birth pains, Before human CREATION, we are told. SO the question we have to ask if why was the Medium called forth?
The medium – the ether – the matrix of the multiverse had to come first – to build the rest upon But this would make God omnipresent - everywhere - and everything as in absolute - you deny this
R How can you say, I deny the matrix, the medium, the functional descriptor of the Shadday as the HS?
You say the HS function was called forth in birth pains in order to build the universe upon this? No
The matrix was called forth in order to deal with sin.
How do I know this so easily?
Because the second birth of recreating our characters from sin, is also done by the HS matrix, And the first birth of creating our characters, is also administrated daily by the same compassionate-centre of the HS.
Pr 8:1 ¶ Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
Notice the entire theme of this chapter is dealing with sin. Not dealing with creating a foundation for creating things.
Pr 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil "RA": pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
How can you even contemplate that GOD uses RA as a part of His creation and design? God hates RA, detests pride, dislikes self.
Pr 8:15 By me kings <melek> reign <malak>
God controls the rulers rulings. (both noun and verb form of same Hebrew word)
Pr 8:16 By me princes <sar> rule <sarar>,
God controls the rulers rulings. (both noun and verb form of same Hebrew word)
ALL the rulers are listed here, including sinning angels termed "sar".
SO while GOD engineers RA so others see this SINNING, God hates doing this. Why does RA exist? because Sinning exists, Where does sinning come from? Creatures who no longer wish to love GOD.
Pr 8:17 I love <'ahab> them that love <'ahab> me;
This idea is mentioned here.
Again the whole chapter is about sin, not a framework for creating things.
The middle section I confess does not say why the HS medium was called forth as birth pains. This use of birth pains, suggests it was not natural for GOD to do this, hence I suspect the matrix was for dealing with Sin.
The summary of chapter 8 does confirm the theme though.
Pr 8:36 But he that sinneth <chata'> against me
SO again the whole of this chapter about wisdom, is dealing with the Sin problem.
D But this would make God omnipresent - everywhere
R a Medium does not make GOD omnipresent - everywhere, your Science application is wrong. Light is already omnipresent - everywhere, by definition.
A medium's purpose is to alter the functional properties of light, when light enters into a medium. This function is important, as it allows GOD who hates RA, to create RA, without naturally destroying RA. Thus sinning creatures can sin and still exist as sinners. In normal situations without a medium, sin and sinners would cease to exist immediately.
Notice the properties of light change when light moves from one media to another media. This affect is called a MEDIUM affect. It is a functional description of the HS, something done by the Shadday, a co-eternal member of Elohiym.
Thus looking into the medium, the light is still straight (righteous) the Father's light is unchanged, but the perception of the light is changed by the medium. Crooked things appear, and crooked things can be made straight.
This affect we are seeing Scripture calls RA, something GOD hates to do, but does so sinners can see their sinning.
A mirror is also a medium affect. The royal law simply reflects you as you are if your already straight. But since Sin the mirror properties change. Convex mirrors make you seem straight all the time, what Satan would have you see. Concave mirrors make you far from GOD become upside down and small relative to HIM, and up close like a chief of sinners, but without sinning.
Psalms 91 says we dwell under the shadow of the Shadday. (pictured yellow) In a RA world the medium allows the light of the Father makes two shadows (black and grey), one is a sin unto death, the other is a sin not unto death.
Again salvation is a medium affect, as showing even SINNING can only be shown via a Medium function. Otherwise GOD would destroy sin and sinners immediately.
Notice what the Father's light can do, to allow sinners to see their sinning. If you are far from GOD, the umbra shadows appear, if you are close to GOD there is no shadows of death, there is no daily sinning.
This affect must be done using a medium, otherwise sin would cease to exist.
Proverbs 8 says GOD hates RA, but creates RA reluctantly via the medium, so sinners can see their own sinning, and not perish.
The matrix /medium of the HS is NOT for building a framework for creating things as you claim, but for dealing with sinners in a perfect world.
Shalom
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