Larry
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Post by Larry on Jul 23, 2020 10:24:32 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 13:46:39 GMT -5
DO you have any comments about your topic and the statements by the Rabbi , Larry?
I listened to the Rabbi, he is very entertaining.
People asked him, do you believe in hell?
Rabbi says "Soul comes back, smell like a body, a earthly smell, hell. Doesn't smell like a soul. That smell lasts 12 months... Believe hell goes on forever, only good is eternal, not evil. Glad to hear it... because eternal damnation is a difficult subject."
So hell as a concept lasts for less than 12 months, than the soul smells like paradise and is rewarded by returning to a new body, in the resurrection.
Are there any Scripture to back up this Rabbi concept?
The people ask: "Do you believe in Satan ?
The Rabbi responds: "Yes. He is an angel, a messenger. He does what God tells his to do. Satan gets to do dirty work. Not some agenda, not at war with GOD."
Are there any Scripture to back up this Rabbi concept?
Well Dave alludes to the Job experience, with God telling Satan what do ? Or does God merely limit Satan's doings? How would we know if Satan is at war with God or not, according to the Rabbi's words?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Well this passage has terms "angels, messenger, heaven, Satan and war" and sounds like a direct contradiction to the Rabbi's words.
And for the earlier statement by the Rabbi is more difficult:
Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death:
So the "spirit" assumed to be "soul" in Jewish understanding, cannot be controlled by the body in the day of the bodies death.
Why didn't Jews write of Lazarus who was raised by Jesus after 3 days, where did his soul go to? Why does Lazarus soul return to the same body it had, no reward here?
1Th 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (KJV)
This passage speaks of many sleeping in Jesus. Is the "soul" already in heaven with Jesus? Does this make sense here? The ones living on earth in Jesus, see the second coming, go straight to heaven, without sleeping, and remain forever with Jesus. No soul journey here, No death, no smell of heaven with soul, just go on straight to heaven with your body on earth? What is this passage saying than?
The rabbi says the people in the room did not discuss the Rabbi answers, if I was there, I would have discussed things with him. In a polite and friendly manner of course. Some things spoken here do not align with Scripture. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 30, 2020 21:44:24 GMT -5
Rabbi says "Soul comes back, smell like a body, a earthly smell, hell. Doesn't smell like a soul. That smell lasts 12 months... So hell as a concept lasts for less than 12 months, than the soul smells like paradise and is rewarded by returning to a new body, in the resurrection.
This is a Jewish way of saying After mortal death – the soul (who is the true individual) returns to God After suffering a period of ‘Proportional Punishment’ - purification
Are there any Scripture to back up this Rabbi concept?
Jer 17:10 I Jehovah do search the heart, try the reins, Even to give to each according to his way, According to the fruit of his doings.
Rom 2:5 but, according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou dost treasure up to thyself wrath, in a day of wrath and of the revelation of the righteous judgment of God, Rom 2:6 who shall render to each according to his works;
2Co 5:10 for all of us it behoveth to be manifested before the tribunal of the Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body, in reference to the things that he did, whether good or evil;
Rev 20:12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls—according to their works;
The people ask: "Do you believe in Satan ?
The Rabbi responds: "Yes. He is an angel, a messenger. He does what God tells his to do. Satan gets to do dirty work. Not some agenda, not at war with GOD." Are there any Scripture to back up this Rabbi concept? Well Dave alludes to the Job experience How about every one of the 49 + 23 verse you presented In each and every case – satan was in obedience to God and in opposition to man
How would we know if Satan is at war with God or not, according to the Rabbi's words? Let’s see you present the fact that God is satan to Balaam Therefore God = satan Therefore God hates God Therefore God is at war with Himself
This is contradictory to whose theology? Jewish – Gnostic – or just Catholic
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, War – fought – tussle – bustle – choshek cannot exist in heaven with God It was cast into as separate realm called darkness choshek abyss 9 And the great dragon was cast out, And the Chief Archon and his arch were cast from heaven into earth / creation
Well this passage has terms "angels, messenger, heaven, Satan and war" and sounds like a direct contradiction to the Rabbi's words.
Christianity is not a different religion than Judaism Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism The agl must compliment the ahl Only Catholics make it mean a different religion
And for the earlier statement by the Rabbi is more difficult: Why didn't Jews write of Lazarus who was raised by Jesus after 3 days, where did his soul go to? Why does Lazarus soul return to the same body it had, no reward here?
Let’s see – the ahl closed 450 – 500 years before agl Lazarus
Asleep = mortally dead
1Th 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, (dead) that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep (are dead)in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (dead) 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead (those asleep) in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain (haven’t experience mortal death – yet – RAPTURE)shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This passage speaks of many sleeping in Jesus. Is the "soul" already in heaven with Jesus? Does this make sense here? Sure – the dead are asleep to this world They are in hades (which has nothing to do with hell – but the realm of the un-seen) The ones living on earth in Jesus, see the second coming, go straight to heaven, without sleeping mortal death, and remain forever with Jesus. No soul journey here, No death, no smell of heaven with soul, just go on straight to heaven with your body on earth? What is this passage saying than? This is the RAPTURE – at the Second Coming – the time is up – the game is over – Contest complete
Some things spoken here do not align with Scripture. Everything present here is 100% Jewish from the ahl The only thing is does not align with is Catholic Doctrine
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 5:21:34 GMT -5
Rob's challenge: "Are there any Scripture to back up this Rabbi concept?
Dave's reply: Jer 17:10 I Jehovah do search the heart, try the reins, Even to give to each according to his way, According to the fruit of his doings.
heart, idiom for mind, always connected to body.
Rom 2:5 but, according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou dost treasure up to thyself wrath, in a day of wrath and of the revelation of the righteous judgment of God, Rom 2:6 who shall render to each according to his works; heart, idiom for mind, always connected to body.
2Co 5:10 for all of us it behoveth to be manifested before the tribunal of the Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body, in reference to the things that he did, whether good or evil; the things done through the body, not a separate soul from the body
Rev 20:12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls—according to their works;
humans judged, the complete body and spirit. Not separate parts.
If you weree to ask me, there is only one Scripture which puzzles us:-
Ro 8:16 The Spirit <pneuma> itself <autos> beareth witness <summartureo> with our <hemon> spirit <pneuma>, that <hoti> we are <esmen> the children <teknon> of God <theos>:
Capital S and small s is not in the Hebrew. The text reads:
The Holy Spirit itself witnesses with the Holy Spirit, that we are children of Elohiym.
Why is the words HS written twice? Other texts like this suggest that Ruwach can mean three things, wind, HS or spirit.
This becomes a polysemy word. The problem may well lie with the fact we cannot understand what ruwach actually means as a single term, hence one English meaning. There is a text saying the ruwach is created... So some things are difficult to fathom. I get around the text above saying the HS adminstrates our character, which as Dave points out comes from GOD, and can be termed spirit.
Rob: "The people ask: "Do you believe in Satan ?
Dave: "How about every one of the 49 + 23 verse you presented In each and every case – satan was in obedience to God and in opposition to man
Rob replies: " Re 12:8 neither was their place found any more in heaven., the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Cast out, deceives in heaven, cast to earth, war in heaven, war on earth, sounds like an Opposer to me.
Lu 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
The Rabbi says the Satan is an angel, so Jesus is talking to an angel... not as a human... but as GOD...
Why didn't an angel like Gabriel come down to fight the angel on earth? Because the death of an angel cannot atone for lost sinners. Angels have no living in them, no immortality. Only God has. The text says life for life.
Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
What was the Opposer opposing? YHWH's right to save the man. The rescuer rescues because an opposer opposes. SImple really. It's not about man here. Man is just the outcome of the rescue.
Mt 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
So this makes the Opposer a Ruler with a Kingdom, opposing who? Can't be man, mankind is already a slave to the Opposers kingdom. Must be opposing God's right as ruler.
Mr 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Dave you have the Opposer opposing only man, but a good angel doing the dirty work of God.
If that is so explain the term "divide" here. You cannot divide a power on the same side as the power who adminstrates that power.
Mr 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts
The Scripture says "takes away the Word" whose the WORD? Jesus is. A power of GOD.
Ac 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
What does the Opposer oppose? The power of GOD, this pretender christian was already sinning, so why does Peter speak this way? Because the Opposer is opposing God's powers.
Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, again this is speaking of RA and light, talking about darkness and light, nothing here about light and dark being a part of God's will.
Ro 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.
Why write the OPPOSER under our feet and GOD above our head? These are some of the more convincing ones.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 31, 2020 7:18:16 GMT -5
Jer 17:10 Rom 2:5 Rom 2:6 2Co 5:10 Rev 20:12 and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls—according to their works; humans judged, the complete body and spirit. Not separate parts.
What are you saying? You are not judged on what you do in the body?
If you were to ask me, there is only one Scripture which puzzles us:-
Ro 8:16 The Spirit <pneuma> itself <autos> beareth witness <summartureo> with our <hemon> spirit <pneuma>, that <hoti> we are <esmen> the children <teknon> of God <theos>:
The Holy Spirit itself witnesses with the Holy Spirit, that we are children of Elohiym. You totally leave out the pronoun <hemon> - bad translation If pneuma means only Holy Spirit then your translation should read The Holy Spirit itself witness with our Holy Spirit Now we have a Holy Spirit – like we are gods or something
Why is the words HS written twice? One is the Holy Spirit itself One is our spirit
I get around the text above saying the HS adminstrates our character What do you mean administer – we are just puppets of the HS
We are individual beings called man Each man is his own man – each man is his own unique individual Each man is judged according to his conduct –
You deny this individuality – you have others to blame your conduct on You didn’t choose to sin yourself – satan ruled you You cannot do a mitzvah because you do not exist – you are just the HS But if you sin then it must be satan that is ruling the HS
You do not have a consistent theology –
Re 12:8 neither was their place found any more in heaven., the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Cast out, deceives in heaven, cast to earth, war in heaven, war on earth, sounds like an Opposer to me.
In your shadow experiment – why does the shadow retract when in the presence of the light Is it because it has lost a long drown out war with many battels and bloodshed – how stupid Choshek could not / cannot occupy the same locality as God personal domain / heaven Out it went -
Lu 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. The Rabbi says the Satan is an angel, so Jesus is talking to an angel... not as a human... but as GOD... So now the disciple Peter is a Cherbub that existed in heaven and rebelled against God and then ends up being a disciple of Jesus If you want to play word games – then why is not Jesus a stick or a sheep
Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
What was the Opposer opposing? YHWH's right to save the man. The rescuer rescues because an opposer opposes. SImple really. It's not about man here. Man is just the outcome of the rescue.
OK expert translator to resist him – who is the him? Joshua – the angel of the Lord – or the Lord? – you do not get to pick and choose which fits your theology – pick the one that fits the translation
Mt 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
So this makes the Opposer a Ruler with a Kingdom, opposing who? Can't be man, mankind is already a slave to the Opposers kingdom. Must be opposing God's right as ruler.
Look how much you read into one verse
Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This man doth not cast out demons, but by Beelzebub the prince of the demons. Mat 12:25 And knowing their thoughts he said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: Mat 12:26 and if Satan casteth out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges. Mat 12:28 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you. The Point Jesus makes is that – Jesus is not doing it buy the power of Beelzebub – but of God Did you miss this point?
Mr 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Mar 3:22 And the scribes that came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and, By the prince of the demons casteth he out the demons. Mar 3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? Mar 3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. Mar 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. Mar 3:26 And if Satan hath risen up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Exact same Point made by Jesus – you totally misrepresent these verses to make them mean satan hates God
Dave you have the Opposer opposing only man, but a good angel doing the dirty work of God. The archon are to test creation – all creation not just man – man is NOT the totality of creation They do this – to serve a function – to test the system – to stress the system
So this makes the Opposer a Ruler with a Kingdom, opposing who? Can't be man, mankind is already a slave to the Opposers kingdom. Must be opposing God's right as ruler. If that is so explain the term "divide" here. You cannot divide a power on the same side as the power who adminstrates that power.
So you do agree with Jesus after all? The ra cannot be divided against itself – OK Although – the archon fight within themselves – no honor among thieves
Mr 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts The Scripture says "takes away the Word" whose the WORD? Jesus is. A power of GOD. YEP! – Believers vrs Gnosis You can change your beliefs like clothing and the archon will help you change
Ac 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? What does the Opposer oppose? The power of GOD, this pretender christian was already sinning, so why does Peter speak this way? Because the Opposer is opposing God's powers. OR Ananias listened to the yester ra that is always within us – self vrs God All the archon do is make that chata choice attractive – they cannot force you to choose - all choice are you own
Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, Open their eyes – GNOSIS - revelation
again this is speaking of RA and light, talking about darkness and light, nothing here about light and dark being a part of God's will.
In this one verse – agree But in the light of the entire Tanak + agl – this one verse does not tell the whole story Isa 45:7 Prov 16:4 Col 1:16 John 1:3
Are we to understand the whole storey – or just one verses?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 17:21:48 GMT -5
Jer 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. Where does our fruit come from? God
Jer 17:8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the water.....yielding fruit. We are similes of trees, grown in the Word of God, empowered by GOD, yielding fruits of GOD Ro 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Can a good tree bear bad fruit? no
By their fruit, ye shall know what kind of living the tree did.
How does GOD know your love? By the way your love responds to His love. Hence God judges us. How else can GOD know if you love him? He measures your response to His love. God asks everyperson, what responding did you do with my love of providing?
Dave: "You totally leave out the pronoun <hemon> - bad translation If pneuma means only Holy Spirit then your translation should read The Holy Spirit itself witness with our Holy Spirit
Rob: "Sorry, your correct.
Dave: "Now we have a Holy Spirit – like we are gods or something
Rob: We are relationship. Scripture says man is like god.... made in image of god Does man own relationship? no Does God own relationship? no Nobody techncially does. it is free. made by choice. If I want to continue with relationship, I have to support GOD, His powers flow through me.
When two ox are yoken together, one older doing tov and the younger doing ra, the older ox drives the younger ox to a relationship of serving the master. Eventually the ra goes away.
In the end there is no choice, only relationship obeying one master. The two ox become one ox.
Dave:"Why is the words HS written twice? One is the Holy Spirit itself One is our spirit
That is a violation of the word meaning. The cell itself witnesses to our cells, we are children of a family body. Who is the cell? Any of the cells? They are are in relationship with each other. The stone itself witnesses to our stones, we are children of a building wall. Is any brick superior to any other brick in the wall?
Who is the mother of all living? the HS Who witnesses to GOD we are children of GOD? the HS Where does saved children come from? The compassion-centre of the HS While the use of Hebrew words is strange, it's there. We ponder mysteries.
Dave: "What do you mean administer – we are just puppets of the HS
The younger ox yoked to the older ox, is a puppet for a while, until he loses his RA and does the Tov, the older ox does. Self must die. Choice must die. Supporting GOD is all we do daily.
Dve" Each man is his own man – each man is his own unique individual
Yes to a degree:
Pr 16:9 ¶ A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
We have over 7000 love promises in which to choose daily, we choose which seeds to sow, which causes our garden from GOD. So we become individual in this sense. All different gardens of GOD. Our steps come from daily promises we sow. But we make our course.
Dave: "Each man is judged according to his conduct
Rob: Yes, God looks at our garden. the Fruits of His love. The growth of GOD in us.
Dave: "You deny this individuality – you have others to blame your conduct on You didn’t choose to sin yourself – satan ruled you
Rob replies: "Often Satan rules us, if we allow this. Often Satanic archons tempt us to miss. They want you to lose living as they face lose living one day. But we must face the light, not fight our shadows of death.
Dave:"You cannot do a mitzvah because you do not exist – you are just the HS
Rob replies: Man is relationship, therefore we do exist as matter partnered to GOD.
The matter receiving living forces from GOD, becomes "living energy".
This "living energy" is us. It's the human part of relationship. The other part of relation is the HS adminstrating the presence of GOD flows into you. But there is a human element to the relationship too. Relationship requires two personalities, you and GOD.
The KJV says man becomes nephesh. We become "living energy".
Dave: "But if you sin then it must be satan that is ruling the HS
Rob: in order to sin, the mind chooses NOT to support GOD by praying for some divine promise.
Next Self rules instead. This entity of RA came when Adam sinned, when Adam listened to Satan, the serpent, long ago, the father of lies. So in this sense Self is the fruit of Satan, a product of His sinning. He is called a father of lies, a murder from the beginning. How can Satan murder anything from the beginning? war in heaven and nothing died?
The Hebrew means more subtle than that...no wounding.
Every sin that happens wounds God... There are two rulers over your nephesh, the HS or Satan. The HS is a conduit for the flow of Jesus, so techncially you serve either Jesus or Satan, both claim to be kings.
Satan can abuse God's power, as humans can too, but we cannot rule over GOD, nor control GOD. God is bigger than sin, and Satan, and humans.
Dave:"In your shadow experiment – why does the shadow retract when in the presence of the light
Shadows are the absense of light. Relationship banishes shadows. Move closer to the light (a change of relationship) and shadows banish.
Dave: "Is it because it has lost a long drown out war with many battels and bloodshed – how stupid
Relationships can slide before being broken.... Hebrew has many terms for this...?
stiff necks back slidden war pride self
The term pride is technically a sin, before transgression happens. So relationship strains with missing long before transgression happens. You can exist with pride for a million years before transgression finally occurs. RA is more like a cancer, a slow growth in the wrong direction. And relationship allows the straining to happen....heart to heart, arm to arm, hand to hand, finger to finger, finally the relationship breaks. You walk away...you wait..the prodigal angel returns.. there is joy over one angel that repents than the millions of others that did not repent... But some chose to never repent. The war closed the probation on them, fate determined this. During this, what would have happened?
Darkness would be seen in the universe for the first time. The first RA. The first shadows of death.
What is death? It is prmarily a separation from the light.
Hence darkness or shadow. We have assumed death is primarily the absence of breathing. But death is broader than this. If the relationship moves closer to GOD it gets more living. If the relationship moves further from GOD is gets more dying.
In between it is as God says, ye shall dying die.
Dave: "God personal domain / heaven - Out it went
Yes, but both can exist together in a RA world, but never in a NON-RA world. This is why the HS is a medium, a media for Godly powers. Wind is a term for medium, where different media move, wind is not visible, but felt. So it is with God dealing with RA.
Dave: "So now the disciple Peter is a Cherbub that existed in heaven and rebelled against God and then ends up being a disciple of Jesus If you want to play word games – then why is not Jesus a stick or a sheep
Jesus told Peter, get behind thee Satan... Peter was listening to Satan, as a ruler, rather than God as a ruler. Humans hop over to other rulers all the time, and Jesus knows this.... why else is Passover called Hopping Day? Jesus is a simile of the branch, a simile of the grain, a simile of blood, a simile of sheep.... these poetry pictures help us understand Jesus as a power in our life. We are similes of trees, with a Lord of Trees over us, as ruler.
Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
What was the Opposer opposing? YHWH's right to save the man. The rescuer rescues because an opposer opposes. SImple really. It's not about man here. Man is just the outcome of the rescue.
OK expert translator to resist him – who is the him?
Zec 3:1 ¶ And the Father-GOD showed Zechariah in vision, the human Joshua the high priest, a simile of Jesus divine-human the High Priest, standing before the Jesus-mesenger of the Father-LORD, and Satan standing at the Father's right hand to resist the Jesus-messenger, who was about to rescue the earthly Joshua high priest from Satan..
Who do you say is the "him" here?
Dave :" The archon are to test creation – all creation not just man – man is NOT the totality of creation They do this – to serve a function – to test the system – to stress the system
Rob: " Is GOD a perfect programmer Creator? Yes or NO? If you allow this testing of the system to stress it, than the programmer is not perfect with his programming.
A programmer does not make quine programmes to stress a perfect programme.
It's all perfect. Job done.
Only man in a a fallen world makes quine programs to stress code, because man can't write perfect code.
But God can, oops sorry for you, your god can't do this.
God lives in a Tov world, all perfect, no need for testing, or archons.
Dave: "In this one verse – agree But in the light of the entire Tanak + agl – this one verse does not tell the whole story Isa 45:7 Prov 16:4 Col 1:16 John 1:3
Are we to understand the whole storey – or just one verses?
Correct, there should be harmony from all verses. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 31, 2020 21:36:33 GMT -5
Can a good tree bear bad fruit? no By their fruit, ye shall know what kind of living the tree did.
The Better question is – can a bad tree bear good fruit 11 document miracles performed by Joseph Smith in front of many Does this mean Joseph Smith can only be of God?
How does GOD know your love? By the way your love responds to His love. Hence God judges us. YES – to each man his due - proportional How else can GOD know if you love him? He measures your response to His love. God asks everyperson, what responding did you do with my love of providing? YES! He measures our response to anything and everything the archon set before us Testing - proving
Dave:"Why is the words HS written twice? One is the Holy Spirit itself One is our spirit That is a violation of the word meaning. SEE here you go – everywhere the word spirit exist it cannot just mean spirit – it can only mean Holy Spirit – but you have no bias – you let the words speak – simple not complicated
While the use of Hebrew words is strange, it's there. Please translate – what is the spirit of the law – what is the spirit of the game – and if I name my Dog ‘spirit’ does that immediately make my dog the HS MOCK
Where does saved children come from? The compassion-centre of the HS Jewish small children are still in remembrance – still in innocence
Dave: "What do you mean administer – we are just puppets of the HS The younger ox yoked to the older ox, is a puppet for a while, until he loses his RA and does the Tov, the older ox does. Self must die. Choice must die. Supporting GOD is all we do daily.
So how does the HS ADMINISTER puppets the non-believer – the atheist – the Muslim? Are non-believer non-believers because the HS make them so? Are Muslims Muslim because the HS makes them so HS puppets the wicked to do ra?
Dave" Each man is his own man – each man is his own unique individual Yes to a degree: NO ABSOLUTE INDIVIDUAL – an independent essence of spirit Created by God in heaven – then mated to a fetus at conception – then return to God
Rob replies: Man is relationship, therefore we do exist as matter partnered to GOD. The matter receiving living forces from GOD, becomes "living energy". As any animal (Mind/Body)
This "living energy" is us. It's the human part of relationship. The other part of relation is the HS adminstrating the presence of GOD flows into you. So you say man = (God + (Mind/Body) as in God incarnate – you are not Christ So you say man = (HS + (Mind/Body) as in HS incarnate – no such thing Besides – HS = God so you claim to be God
The KJV says man becomes nephesh. We become "living energy". Just like all the animals
Dave:"In your shadow experiment – why does the shadow retract when in the presence of the light Shadows are the absense of light. Relationship banishes shadows. Move closer to the light (a change of relationship) and shadows banish. It is your proof that satan hates God – there is a war - Explain to me how this is a war
Zec 3:1 ¶ And the Father-GOD showed Zechariah in vision, the human Joshua the high priest, a simile of Jesus divine-human the High Priest, standing before the Jesus-mesenger of the Father-LORD, and Satan standing at the Father's right hand to resist the Jesus-messenger, who was about to rescue the earthly Joshua high priest from Satan..
You are not a translator – to take an ahl scripture and force it to support your Catholic satan
Rob: " Is GOD a perfect programmer Creator? Yes or NO? If you allow this testing of the system to stress it, than the programmer is not perfect with his programming. A programmer does not make quine programmes to stress a perfect programme.
Ok – God is a programmer – but not of a video game – but of all reality
It's all perfect. Job done. YES! – all God’s plan – all God’s design – all God’s Will
Only man in a a fallen world makes quine programs to stress code, because man can't write perfect code. There are no other programmers – no second creators
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 15:33:02 GMT -5
The Better question is – can a bad tree bear good fruit 11 document miracles performed by Joseph Smith in front of many Does this mean Joseph Smith can only be of God?
Miracles are not fruit.
medium.com/@williamclayton/joseph-smith-the-prophet-the-man-the-legend-the-myth-the-villain-the-hero-2388806c373a As if his boyhood and teenage years didn’t uncover enough, they find even more disturbing information… A man who drank daily and was found smoking just days after issuing the word of wisdom, even later opening up his own alcoholic saloon in his town. They see man who punched tax collectors, went bankrupt in Gods “unsinkable bank”, fleeing from debt. They see hundreds of his revelations and predictions fail relentlessly, they panic when discovering he had been tricked into translating pretend plates, and furthermore that he declared them to come from God, calling into question his honesty and translation of the Book of Mormon
This website is fair.... Joseph Smith miracles I suspect came from suporting Satan and his powers.
Please translate – what is the spirit of the law –
There is no Bible phrase "spirit of the law"
NO ABSOLUTE INDIVIDUAL – an independent essence of spirit Created by God in heaven – then mated to a fetus at conception – then return to God
Bible reference for this idea?
So you say man = (HS + (Mind/Body) as in HS incarnate – no such thing
Who say HS is incarnate? you do, not me. I said partnered as in relationship... is not GOD omniprsent? Does not all matter exist because GOD exists... but the tree is not GOD, nor the rock GOD...yet God upholds all things. Why is this difficult for you?
R The KJV says man becomes nephesh. We become "living energy". D Just like all the animals R no, remember the text?
Ec 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? (KJV)
Man is a special animal, in which His character (spirit your term) is administrated by the HS in partnered relationship to the man.
It is your proof that satan hates God – there is a war - Explain to me how this is a war
Are you saying fighting your shadows is not a war? Most people fight their shadows of death all day long... Obeying rules of commandments, ie make your shadow less a shadow, does not make the shadow go away. Moving to the light makes shadows go away. Of course its a war... its an internal war of words mostly... Sowing prayer promises in the mind, so I receive His light, and poof the shadows go away. All wars begin in the mind... over words of authority... than the hands later, finally sins of transgression.
As the movie Last Sabori (USA man with Japanese Sabori, with sword in hand, always defeated... spoke to him one day and said, fight in your head first... not your hands... - than the USA man got better at battles)
You are not a translator – to take an ahl scripture and force it to support your Catholic satan
OK you translate Zec 3:1 explain terms messenger, YHWH and Joshua the high priest. Watch for types and typologies...
to support your Catholic satan Just between us, why do you label me as a Catholic satan supporter? I would say this is a "Hebrew cherub chata supporter of Scripture" been in Scripture long before the Catholics ever existed.
There are no other programmers – no second creators
COrrect, GOD engineered RA, I get it, This unverse we live in became a RA world long before mankind was even created. But you say GOD intentionally created RA beings in this now RA universe to test Humans to love GOD... no That would make God a creator of evil...Who would love an evil God? Your Gnostic writings are letting you down, Scripture says where RA came from, From the chuerub chata... the Scripture you ignore From war in heaven - the little battle of dark with light It was some sinning by angels that made this RA world come into Being, GOD allowing this to happen But you don't see this, ignore the Scripture, but read the GNostic writings as more holy. Your choice, not mine.
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Post by Dave on Aug 2, 2020 2:54:14 GMT -5
11 document miracles performed by Joseph Smith in front of many Does this mean Joseph Smith can only be of God? Miracles are not fruit. Really – how will you know a man’s faith – by his works – by the fruit of the spirit(Wiki) - In his personal journal, Wilford Woodruff recorded an event that occurred on July 22, 1839 in which he described Smith walking among a large number of Saints who had taken ill, immediately healing them all. Among those healed were Woodruff himself, Brigham Young, Elijah Fordham, and Joseph B. Noble. Woodruff also tells of how, just after these events occurred, a ferryman who was not a follower of Smith but who had heard of the miracles asked Smith to heal his children, who had come down with the same disease. Smith said that he did not have time to go to the ferryman's house, but he charged Woodruff to go and heal them. Woodruff reports that he went and did as Smith had told him to do and that the children were healed. Smith related an experience in which, on July 23, 1839, he charged his brother Don Carlos and his cousin George A. Smith to go and heal about sixty people who were bedridden due to illness. According to his account, all of these people recovered Does this look like miracles? – especially to 19th century man Is this tov? Is this from God? Or is the ra from your satanThis website is fair.... Joseph Smith miracles I suspect came from suporting Satan and his powers.The Better question is – can a bad tree bear good fruitPlease translate – what is the spirit of the law – There is no Bible phrase "spirit of the law" Dodge the question – you can translate Greek to Hebrew but not English?NO ABSOLUTE INDIVIDUAL – an independent essence of spirit Created by God in heaven – then mated to a fetus at conception – then return to God Bible reference for this idea?Posted Hebrew Study H120Man is a special animal, in which His character (spirit your term) is administrated by the HS in partnered relationship to the man. administrated - partnered - a beg you and beg you to explain this Just to continually repeat it does not explain it man has no soul - he is an animal puppet of the HS?It is your proof that satan hates God – there is a war - Explain to me how this is a warAre you saying fighting your shadows is not a war? Are you saying fighting your shadows is not a war? Most people fight their shadows of death all day long... Man and archon on earth – not God and Archon in heavenObeying rules of commandments, ie make your shadow less a shadow, does not make the shadow go away. Man and archon on earth – not God and Archon in heavenMoving to the light makes shadows go away. Correct – it just goes away – no warOf course its a war... its an internal war of words mostly... Man and archon on earth – not God and Archon in heavenSowing prayer promises in the mind, so I receive His light, and poof the shadows go away. Man and archon on earth – not God and Archon in heavenJust between us, why do you label me as a Catholic satan supporter?Let’s see – just who makes two words of Ezk 28 an entire doctrine – The Roman Catholic Church I would say this is a "Hebrew cherub chata supporter of Scripture" been in Scripture long before the Catholics ever existed.Then why is it not Hebrew theology? No one heard of until the Catholic church taught itThe entire concept of two gods = anti- there is only one true God The elevation of satan to an anti-god is Catholic Mythology The elevation of satan is not consistent with the rest of scriptureIt is a two word theologyI begged and begged you to give me one verse proving satan opposes God We went over 49 + 23 verses – not once did satan oppose God So the opponent is only an opponent to Job, in Job's story? Fair enough So where would you go looking to see if "opponent" actually "opposes" GOD? Line upon line, here and there, remember, how to read Scripture? And your answer isAt least we have discovered the value of line by line – it doesn’t matter if it goes against Catholic doctrine
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Post by Dave on Aug 2, 2020 3:17:09 GMT -5
PS - you talk about line upon line comparison of text But you do not do this you simply do - word on word comparison - and omit the context
49 + 23 verses in context do not support your two word theology
First Commandment - no other gods before / against / opposing God Yet - this is the entire foundation of Catholocism
Jews say - YHWY is God - and God is absolute Gnostics say - YHWY = Christ and they are God - and are absolute Catholics say - God and satan are almost equal - satan can change God's plan - and God can't stop him
Judaism - Messianic Judaism - Gnostic Christianity - and some Christians - are the religions of YHWY Catholics are the religion of satan
You are a SDA - which is reformed Prodestantism - which is reformed Catholocism - which build stheir entire theology around two words of one verse
Judaism, Messianic Judaism, Gnostic Christianity is not the same religon as Catholocism
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 16:53:28 GMT -5
D Does this look like miracles? – especially to 19th century man Is this tov? Is this from God? Or is the ra from your satan R I suspect from Satan. By their fruits you must test the man. Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
One transgression, is enough to remove the man credibility, and show He is supporting Satan rather thann supporting GOD.
Re 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do...
D Posted Hebrew Study H120 R H120 is the word "adam", what are you saying?
R Man is a special animal, in which His character (spirit your term) is administrated by the HS in partnered relationship to the man. D administrated - partnered - a beg you and beg you to explain this Just to continually repeat it does not explain it
R OK I will try other others:
EGW: "There are many issues in our world today in regard to the Creator not being a personal God. God is a being, and man was made in His image. After God created man in His image, the form was perfect in all its arrangements, but it had no vitality. Then a personal, self-existing God breathed into that form the breath of life, and man became a living, breathing, intelligent being. All parts of the human machinery were put in motion. The heart, the arteries, the veins, the tongue, the hands, the feet, the perceptions of the mind, the senses, were placed under physical law. It was then that man became a living soul."
The SDA people, including EGW do not say much about what is the "breath of life", nor how it works, etc.
From Scripture writings and texts like these, the Holy Spirit functions as an agency for allowing some "quantum spark" or "divine force" to allow the machinery of man to be living.
This passage may also help:
The Immortality Question One day I listened to a conversation between my mother and a sister, in reference to a discourse which they had recently heard, to the effect that the soul had not natural immortality. Some of the minister's proof texts were repeated. Among them I remember these impressed me very forcibly: "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4. "The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything." Ecclesiastes 9:5. "Which in His times He shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; who only hath immortality." 1 Timothy 6:15, 16. "To them who by patient continuance in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life." Romans 2:7. "Why," said my mother, after quoting the foregoing passage, "should they seek for what they already have?" I listened to these new ideas with an intense and painful interest. When alone with my mother, I inquired if she really believed that the soul was not immortal. Her reply was, that she feared we had been in error on that subject, as well as upon some others. "But, mother," said I, "do you really believe that the soul sleeps in the grave until the resurrection? Do you think that the Christian, when he dies, does not go immediately to heaven, nor the sinner to hell?" She answered: "The Bible gives us no proof that there is an eternally burning hell. If there is such a place, it should be mentioned in the Sacred Book." "Why, mother!" cried I, in astonishment, "this is strange talk for you! If you believe this strange theory, do not let anyone know of it; for I fear that sinners would gather security from this belief, and never desire to seek the Lord." "If this is sound Bible truth," she replied, "instead of preventing the salvation of sinners, it will be the means of winning them to Christ. If the love of God will not induce the rebel to yield, the terrors of an eternal hell will not drive him to repentance. Besides, it does not seem a proper way to win souls to Jesus by appealing to one of the lowest attributes of the mind—abject fear. The love of Jesus attracts; it will subdue the hardest heart." It was some months after this conversation before I heard anything further concerning this doctrine; but during this time my mind had been much exercised upon the subject. When I heard it preached, I believed it to be the truth. From the time that light in regard to the sleep of the dead dawned upon my mind, the mystery that had enshrouded the resurrection vanished, and the great event itself assumed a new and sublime importance. My mind had often been disturbed by its efforts to reconcile the immediate reward or punishment of the dead with the undoubted fact of a future resurrection and judgment. If at death the soul entered upon eternal happiness or misery, where was the need of a resurrection of the poor moldering body? But this new and beautiful faith taught me the reason why inspired writers had dwelt so much upon the resurrection of the body; it was because the entire being was slumbering in the grave. I could now clearly perceive the fallacy of our former position on this question. (Christian Experience and Teachings of Ellen G. White, pp. 39-41) The writer is one of Ellen White's sons. I hope this helps you.
D Man and archon on earth – not God and Archon in heaven R was these any angels (archon your term for angels) fighting GOD in heaven?
So there war was once with GOD, now its over with GOD You don't need me to show you the text do you? You also know archons are angels? So now they fight humans on earth? Did not angels (archons your term) also fight Jesus on earth? Was not Jesus GOD? Therefore archons fight God on earth.... but you say they fought the human side of Jesus? Really? If Jesus is GOD and man, where would SELF be? On the divine side or the human side? In a sinless human, self is your own power, therefore Jesus had access to power from His Father supporting His Father's words or using His own powers.... which is termed in sinners self. All the archons had to do was get Jesus to do a miracle in His own power, and this is missing.
But oops you say Jesus is the Father as a expression. I say no.
Otherwise He could not support His Father by faith, which is why He came, to show us how to live by faith
D Then why is it not Hebrew theology? No one heard of until the Catholic church taught it R Do you have written records of Jews long ago, thinking differently? If it's a Hebrew verse, than by definition it's a Hebrew theology. How many people supported Jesus correctly in the OT days? since the Exodus? Out of several million Hebrews, only 3. Moses, Joshua, Caleb. Maybe others, we are told thousands, but supporting God correctly is rare. Its a narrow road of salvation, few write about it. Broad is the deceivers way, and lots of writings clash the truth.
D No one heard of until the Catholic church taught it R Some Catholics are pure and holy, perhaps they studied Hebrew correctly. Are there not some holy people in every fold?
D I begged and begged you to give me one verse proving satan opposes God R you mean the Opposer opposing GOD directly...?
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High
Lets see where kowkab leads:
Job 38:7 When the morning <boqer> stars <kowkab> sang <ranan> together <yachad>, and all the sons <ben> of God <'elohiym> shouted <ruwa`> for joy?
Some "star" was with other "morning stars" during Creation of earth.
Da 8:0 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
One star waxed to heaven, casting down other stars. The star also magnifies himself to the "prince of the host" (is Jesus) and removes his sanctuary system of salvation on earth. In OT times Jesus had a sanctuary system of salvation on earth, in Zion.
Evidence here this star s opposing GOD
1) removing other stars in heaven 2) magnifying itself to level of Jesus 3) removing Jesus right to save humans
Am 5:26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.
This star is elohiym, labeled here as Moloch on Earth.
Ob 1:3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground? 4 Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD.
This text is amazing. It shows some "star" has pride to oppose "cela" a rock that symbolizes Jesus, and fly as an eagle flies high, a symbol of the HS, But YHWH says I will bring this star down. Here we see GOD opposing the claims of this star.
Na 3:16 Thou hast multiplied thy merchants above the stars of heaven:
It seems the stars come originally from heaven.
Now who is this one star that claims to be like the Father, the Most High?
We have to ask, what Being is the star, that lived once in heaven?
Mt 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. Here is the same Hebrew word in the NT. Jesus is also termed a star.
Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 ¶ To execute judgment upon all,
In this passage, the stars that rebelled against GOD are reserved in the blackness of darkness for ever.
God will one day judge those missing stars that this one star plucked from the heavens.
Re 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: The dragon plucked a third of the stars from heaven. Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
This passage aligns the dragon to Devil and Satan. Hence this one star is termed these functional descriptors.
Re 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Jesus is also termed a star.
The term star is a functional descriptor, meaning "bright one" or "having powers to make light" Both Satan and Jesus are termed stars, also princes, also Beings of Burning. They oppose each other.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 2, 2020 22:00:51 GMT -5
Catechism of the Catholic Churchwww.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm#IIPart 1 - The proffession of Faith Section 2 - The professsion of the Christian Faith Chapter 1 Article 1 Paragraph 7. The Fall I. The Fall The reality of sin Original sin - an essential truth of the faith How to read the account of the fall II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS Now insert here everything you say you believe about your satan god because it is identicle - sometimes you are word for wordD Does this look like miracles? – especially to 19th century man Is this tov? Is this from God? - Or is the ra from your satan R I suspect from Satan. By their fruits you must test the man. D but tov fruit = tov gifts of the spirit = tov God we will know if you are of Goss if your fruit = tyov R Ga 5:19 -23 Exactly - so can your satan do tov miracles or not?One transgression, is enough to remove the man credibility, and show He is supporting Satan rather thann supporting GOD.So Mother Teresa worked for the Lord for 87 years – but as she died she ‘told a lie’ to protect an innocent. Therefore she lost her salvation and went to hellRe 13:13 -14 – is not a TOV miracle – is it supporting good and God? Joseph Smith healed approx. 100 people of sickness overnight – in front of an entire community of witnesses D Posted Hebrew Study H120 R H120 is the word "adam", what are you saying?ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/463/hebrew-study-h5921-h120-beforeD administrated - partnered - I beg you and beg you to explain this Just to continually repeat it does not explain itR - EGW: "There are many issues in our world today in regard to the Creator not being a personal God. God is a being, and man was made in His image. God = spirit + 3D Image – invisible + visible Man = spirit + (Mind/Body) – invisible + visibleAfter God created man in His image, the form was perfect in all its arrangements, but it had no vitality. (Mind/Body) animals have vitality as in a brain + an instinct program (Mind/Body) animals do not have the vitality to exercise FREE WILLThen a personal, self-existing God breathed into that form the breath of life, and man became a living, breathing, intelligent being. Yes – our soul was matted to our Bodies – now man = (soul + (mind/Body)) We are beings – that live in the mortal world – human being No other animal is called a being Just as all angels are individual beings Just as all archon are individual beingsAll parts of the human machinery were put in motion. The heart, the arteries, the veins, the tongue, the hands, the feet, the perceptions of the mind, the senses, were placed under physical law. It was then that man became a living soul." YES! (Mind/Body) was prepared for – wait for it – to carry around a living soul – YES!The SDA people, including EGW do not say much about what is the "breath of life", nor how it works, etc. Doctrine require agreement with all scripture Therefore some scripture must be overlooked to keep failed doctrine togetherFrom Scripture writings and texts like these, the Holy Spirit functions as an agency for allowing some "quantum spark" or "divine force" to allow the machinery of man to be living.YES – on the quantum level – the HS provides the spark (E) that sustains all creation – on a sub-atomic level The HS is the matrix of the ALL – the either – ‘She’ allows God to be omnipresentThis passage may also help: … 1 Timothy 6:15, 16. "To them who by patient continuance in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life." Romans 2:7. "Why," said my mother, after quoting the foregoing passage, "should they seek for what they already have?" I listened to these new ideas with an intense and painful interest. When alone with my mother, I inquired if she really believed that the soul was not immortal. Her reply was, that she feared we had been in error on that subject, as well as upon some others. "But, mother," said I, "do you really believe that the soul sleeps in the grave until the resurrection? Do you think that the Christian, when he dies, does not go immediately to heaven, nor the sinner to hell?" She answered: "The Bible gives us no proof that there is an eternally burning hell. If there is such a place, it should be mentioned in the Sacred Book." "Why," said my mother, after quoting the foregoing passage, "should they seek for what they already have?"This statement is in error – for what they already have The soul of Man was created immortal – and I also believe Adam was created immortal Soul or Adam would have never died – BUT WE THREW IT AWAYYou can blame it on Eve or Adam Gnostic – sometimes in our lives we yield to the power of yester ra – we are all sinners – none of us are worthy Maybe it was at age 2 or 3 – but we all have sinned You are saying man receives the gift –of eternal life - in the end – as a present Everyone else says – man is on his way to death – through Christ we ca receive Pardon from this death"Why, mother!" cried I, in astonishment, "this is strange talk for you! If you believe this strange theory, do not let anyone know of it; for I fear that sinners would gather security from this belief, and never desire to seek the Lord." I believe in this strange theory and I want my life back Because I believe scripture when it says – we have all failed"If this is sound Bible truth," she replied, "instead of preventing the salvation of sinners, it will be the means of winning them to Christ. If the love of God will not induce the rebel to yield, the terrors of an eternal hell will not drive him to repentance. Besides, it does not seem a proper way to win souls to Jesus by appealing to one of the lowest attributes of the mind—abject fear. The love of Jesus attracts; it will subdue the hardest heart." This is the Baptist message – fear because we are all destined to burn in hell – why – because we are all sinnersIs scripture wrong – haven’t we all failed and fallen short? Or blame it on Adam. But this new and beautiful faith – Mathew 5:17-20 – Jesus did not come to bring a new faith – he changed nothing of the TorahD Man and archon on earth – not God and Archon in heaven R was these any angels (archon your term for angels) fighting GOD in heaven? So there war was once with GOD, now its over with GOD You don't need me to show you the text do you? So in your sahadow experiment – shadow remains in the light continuing to fight against the light – continually – no matter the time – shadow is still there in the light fight backSorry – God wins – hands down – Gen 1:3 Light and the choshek moved from God’s presence into its own realm of darkness You also know archons are angels? So now they fight humans on earth? Fight with some as in Job – most of us are lost to the influences of the archon in the worldDid not angels (archons your term) also fight Jesus on earth? Was not Jesus GOD? Therefore archons fight God on earth.... but you say they fought the human side of Jesus? Really? If Jesus is GOD and man, where would SELF be?That would be on the human side where yester ra resides Man = (soul + (Mind/Body)) Jesus Christ = (God + Mind/Body)) Satan did his best with Jesus (Mind/Body) – but failed- why But oops you say Jesus is the Father as a expression. I say no.Correct I say – Christ = God You say there are more than one GodOtherwise He could not support His Father by faith, which is why He came, to show us how to live by faith E = mc 2 – tell me how do separated the E from the M or the c 2If it's a Hebrew verse, than by definition it's a Hebrew theology.WHAT – just how many theologies are base on the Tanak? >2000 Christian ones aloneHow many people supported Jesus correctly in the OT days? since the Exodus? Out of several million Hebrews, only 3. I lack the power to Judge D I begged and begged you to give me one verse proving satan opposes GodR you mean the Opposer opposing GOD directly...?Isa 14:13 - Some "star" was with other "morning stars" during Creation of earth. OKDa 8:0 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. YES! – The archon were ejected from heaven – and his domain – his realm was separated Evidence here this star is opposing GODEvidence that choshek cannot co-reside with the Light1) removing other stars in heaven The archon removed no one from heaven – God did2) magnifying itself to level of Jesus In ignorance the First Archon though of self, first - correct3) removing Jesus right to save humans WHAT? Jesus no longer has the right to save? (MYTHOLOGY)Am 5:26 (KJV) But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. Amo 5:26 (TLV) But you lifted up your images—Siccuth your ‘king’, and Chiun, your star gods—which you made for yourselves, Amo 5:26 (OJB) But ye have borne the shrine of your Moloch and the pedestal of your tzelamim, your star g-d, which ye made for yourselves. Amo 5:26 (LXX) καὶ ἀνελάβετε τὴν σκηνὴν τοῦ Μολοχ καὶ τὸ ἄστρον τοῦ θεοῦ ὑμῶν Ραιφαν, τοὺς τύπους αὐτῶν, οὓς ἐποιήσατε ἑαυτοῖς. H3556 – כּוֹכָב - kôkâb #1- (in the sense of blazing); a star (as round or as shining); 1- sometimes it just means a star – as in a telescope – Polaris – Sirius – Arcturus#2- figuratively a prince: - 2- sometimes – it is a symbol – simile – of a princeTranslation differencesKJV – agrees with the LXX – star of the god Both Hebrew translation say – star god From the LXX I could argue – their image = the symbol of their god From the Hebrew – these could be – ancient aliens – from the stars – Anannuaki Let’s try star = ‘prince’ ἄστρον τοῦ θεοῦ star + the god in the gebative case The genitive case denotes possession. A noun, pronoun, or adjective in the genitive case is often used as a possessive form or the object of a preposition. The genitive case is used much like in the English language with words such as: “my,” “your,” “his,” “hers.” A genitive often follows after the noun it qualifies. Am 5:26 (KJV) (in the) tabernacle of your Moloch your images, (prince of God – God’s prince) - which ye made to yourselves. Either the star in this translation = the symbol / simile of god Or the prince of GodThis star is elohiym, labeled here as Moloch on Earth. Agree = Molech (who is Baal bty) = a prince god - an archon 'other god' Not a King God as in the Creator – but just a small g god = archon = ‘other gods’ - Agree Ob 1:3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground? 4 Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD. Here we see GOD opposing the claims of this star.You read what you want I’ll read what I want Ob 1:3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee ZERO opposition – its is arrogance – in error – incorrect premis It just means the speaker – is arrogant and stupidNa 3:16 Thou hast multiplied (H7235) thy merchants above the stars of heaven: H7235 – בָה - râbâh - A primitive root; to increase (in whatever respect): This is a math problem – increase - thy merchants – ≥ (to a greater number) than the starsMt 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. Here is the same Hebrew word in the NT. Jesus is also termed a star. Robert – you just make it up as you go along The Star of Bethelhem was not Jesus hang out in the sky for the shepherds to see #1 Sometimes – a star – is just a star
#2 Sometimes – a star = a prince Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering (princes), to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 ¶ To execute judgment upon all, Jud 1:13 κύματα ἄγρια θαλάσσης ἐπαφρίζοντα τὰς ἑαυτῶν αἰσχύνας, ἀστέρες πλανῆται, οἷς ὁ ζόφος τοῦ σκότους εἰς αἰῶνα τετήρηται. In this passage, the stars that rebelled against GOD are reserved in the blackness of darkness for ever. G1519 - εἰς - A primary preposition; to or into εἰς αἰῶνα = are reserved in the blackness of darkness to / into an age /aion Cannot mean forever - as in all eternity – the Greek says for a certain age /aion – a specific age God will one day judge those missing stars that this one star plucked from the heavens. So – it is not forever - OK Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; You say rebelled - I say they were in shame Re 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: The dragon plucked a third of the stars from heaven.Rev 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell from heaven a great star, burning as a torch, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of the waters; Rev 8:11 and the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. #1 Sometimes – a star – is just a star – or meteor in this caseRe 12:7 -9 This passage aligns the dragon to Devil and Satan. Hence this one star is termed these functional descriptors. If you mean Dragon = Devil = Satan as in one being you are wrongRev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, Dragon = the serpent original – they are both called the devil and or satan Re 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Wait – didn’t you say the bright and morning star = your satan?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 14:09:05 GMT -5
D so can your satan do tov miracles or not? R of course... why not? Its says in Scripture even to deceive the very elect....
D So Mother Teresa worked for the Lord for 87 years – but as she died she ‘told a lie’ to protect an innocent. Therefore she lost her salvation and went to hell R you don't read my studies:
spiritualsprings.org/ss-759.htm
1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. Not all sins cause a breaking in relationship to Jesus, once your connected to Him.
D Joseph Smith healed approx. 100 people of sickness overnight – in front of an entire community of witnesses R you will see many miracles in the last days... how do you know truth from error? D You are saying man receives the gift –of eternal life - in the end – as a present Everyone else says – man is on his way to death – through Christ we ca receive Pardon from this death
R yes, eternal living is a gift, it is put on us, those who support Jesus
D Mathew 5:17-20 – Jesus did not come to bring a new faith – he changed nothing of the Torah R correct
D So in your sahadow experiment – shadow remains in the light continuing to fight against the light – continually – no matter the time – shadow is still there in the light fight back R again read Scripture
Isa 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound. (KJV)
If the presence of the Father increases sevenfold, earth will have no shadows any more.. All shadows will be preumbra, no more umbra shadows ever. Natural science ? God is amazing.
D E = mc2 – tell me how do separated the E from the M or the c2
R This equation relates matter to GOD, not explain GOD is related as family Sorry your equation does not describe inside the Godhead Eph 3:15 does
D Sometimes – a star – is just a star R Bible is poetry, ie simile, stars are symbols... read the similes carefully Sure a star is a star, matter is matter, but we are told this to help us see higher things, unknown things
Well it seems we have different views, I suggest you try reading Ellen White material alone. It may help you.
text.egwwritings.org/
I trust this only source of her writings. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 3, 2020 21:25:54 GMT -5
D So Mother Teresa worked for the Lord for 87 years – but as she died she ‘told a lie’ to protect an innocent. Therefore she lost her salvation and went to hell R you don't read my studies: 1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. Not all sins cause a breaking in relationship to Jesus, once your connected to Him. Way to avoid the question
D You are saying man receives the gift –of eternal life - in the end – as a present Everyone else says – man is on his way to death – through Christ we ca receive Pardon from this death R yes, eternal living is a gift, it is put on us, those who support Jesus If eternal life is a gift then why doesn’t your theology end with the resurrection of the Body No proportional punishment just sleep because you are dead Then you are woken up at the end and judged - and put to sleep again if you deserve it Where is proportional punishment?
D Mathew 5:17-20 – Jesus did not come to bring a new faith – he changed nothing of the Torah R correct Except you declare that all Judaism is canceled now – all theology is rewritten by Rome And your reasoning – the Jews never understood their own faith or language And that different between the religion of the Jews and the Christian is the belief in satan
R This equation relates matter to GOD, not explain GOD is related as family Sorry your equation does not describe inside the Godhead Eph 3:15 does Yes a family of three Gods – in depended beings – Your HS is not the spirit of God – it is an different god Your Jesus is not God on earth – He is less than God He is just a Son Three Gods – I will stick with John 1:1-4 One Word – the Word is God – the Word is spirit – the Word is Christ
Jews have One God – Messianic Jews and most Christian believe Jesus when He said If you seen me you have seen the father You have to deny too much scripture
Because if you are now going to argue that Jesus was not God incarnate – Then you do not see the One True God as absolute Was Jesus just a prophet then?
R yes, eternal living is a gift, it is put on us, those who support Jesus The only way this is true – is if man is just an animal destined to death Jews – and Most Christians think man is more than just an animal
D Sometimes – a star – is just a star R Bible is poetry, ie simile, stars are symbols... read the similes carefully Sure a star is a star, matter is matter, but we are told this to help us see higher things, unknown things You pick and choose which metaphors mean this or that
Well it seems we have different views, I suggest you try reading Ellen White material alone. It may help you. Why do you keep saying – don’t follow the precepts of man First you accept Romes revision of Judaism - then you allow Ellem White to revise Christianity Ellen White even supersedes – John, James, Peter, Phillip, or Thomas
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 14:12:40 GMT -5
D If eternal life is a gift then why doesn’t your theology end with the resurrection of the BodyR it does. We sleep until we are resurrected. Until then nothing happens to us. D No proportional punishment just sleep because you are deadR correct D Then you are woken up at the end and judged - and put to sleep again if you deserve it. Where is proportional punishment? R If you are straight with GOD before you sleep, you wake up to live with Him in heaven, the judgement concerning you is over, while you slept. You have a high priest in heaven fighting for your salvation. If you are not straight with GOD before you sleep, God wakes you up after the straight ones are awaken. You get to see GOD and his salvation plan, than you also get to see all your sins. That you get your rewards of wickedness, when His love arms reach out to you... if your life was almost there with GOD but not in GOD, you die rather quickly, never to be again. If your very wicked like Satan is, the father of sinning, than you die last, and finally nothing ever remains or the wicked no more. Nothing. D And your reasoning – the Jews never understood their own faith or language.R some did and were saved. How often is Amenuah mentioned in the OT? Once. Hab 2:4 D Yes a family of three Gods – in depended beings – Your HS is not the spirit of God – it is an different god Your Jesus is not God on earth – He is less than God He is just a Son Three Gods – R you disparage God with your comments. I stick to Scripture only. It says what it says. If Scripture doesn't say, than we are not to know. D HS is not the spirit of GodR you assuming mankind can read "of"... its called a Hebrew construct ... another human invention... Ge 1:2 And the Spirit of God The word "of" is not there in the Hebrew. The phrase reads " ruwach elohiym" I read it as the Holy Spirit Elohiym power, sounds like a member of the divine family to me, Not a separate god as you claim. D Jews have One God – Messianic Jews and most Christian believe Jesus when He said If you seen me you have seen the father You have to deny too much scriptureR In a perfect marriage the woman functions as her husband's authority. They are one in authority.
Pr 31:11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, When you see Jesus, His love is the same as His Father's love. In fact if you find a human empowered with love on earth, pick His fruit, because this love is of GOD. That does not make the supporter of GOD, actually the divine God of heaven. Love is love no matter where the love is shinning, if it is true love, it flows from the Father. D You pick and choose which metaphors mean this or thatR is this so hard? Satan is a star, Jesus is a star, they are both stars. Similes of light that shines. Satan's light shines to his followers but they sit in darkness. Jesus light shine to His followers and we sit in His light. There were two beings of burning upon the pole, which do you look towards? D then you allow Ellen White to revise ChristianityR Ellen White was a latter rain prophet for a reason, to unravel the confusion over Hebrew. She is a Hebrew English translator. Try my test of this with her words... spiritualsprings.org/ss-1061.htm I test using over 30 words, the meanings come from Jeff Benner, and the other word meanings from Ellen White. I also include difficult words. Many not followed by the SDA either. It was a real test. Shalom
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