D Your Nephesh cannot be independent – it carries someone else’s power
So why does your HS medium sin so much and cause war and do murder
R All in our universe exists a medium, some call it ether, some now call it Zero point Energy, this stuff is dense, very powerful, and eternally large, something like our heavenly Father's presence. It's what powers everything, the storms, the lightning, the battieries, the solar power, the rays of the sun, everything.
Inside humans exists a different form of this energy, known in many names as Chi, or as Orgone Energy, a bluish looking energy field, that Reich says is the stuff of living, only living things have this bion, he calls it.
You admit on this molecular level, and biological level, such energy drives the chaos, the disorder and the processes required for living.
But why is it so hard, that GOD also built into living things the will to choose love or not choose love? That is what love really means, it's a choice. One can use or abuse GOD powers flowing into this universe of ours. We can use or abuse GOD's orgone energy flowing into our biological systems. The choice is ours to make. A bad choice is called sinning. A good choice is recorded in the book of remembrance.
Isa 49:15 ..I not forget thee. 16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
Those who choose salvation experience the power of God's love even more, and become straight with Him.
A medium cannot sin. Just as a gun cannot sin either. Electricity does not sin.
Only a mind capable of abusing God's power sins, and these thoughts and doings are recorded against you.
D Water is a medium – in the ocean – to ocean life – it is the absolute boundaries of their universe
Fish – like all animals are made of water – but each fish is not the water – but an independent thing in the water
R nice
D Air is a medium – in the sky – to flying things – it is their world – they have complete dominion over it. Birds are not the air – there is air in the birds – but each bird is an independent thing
R ok
D The Holy Spirit is the medium for all reality – everything is made of this substance – everything is sustained by this substance – this energizing substance we call E
R correct
D Gen 1:1 God bara (fatten Himself) into the heavens and the earth
Creation did not come from NOTHING – It came from God
God did not make something from nothing
R correct
But be careul of panentheism.
D Creation did not come from NOTHING
R correct.
Hab 3:4 he had "horns" coming out of his hand:
Something flowed out of Jesus-YHWH's hand during Creation.
D Light is a wave until it interact with something corporeal – then it behaves as a particle
R Not from my understanding, like travels through space as photons (particles) not as a wave, until it hits something, than travels as a wave.
global.canon/en/technology/s_labo/light/001/11.html
You didn't read words from Young's experiment carefully:
If light consisted strictly of ordinary or classical particles, ( The corpuscular theory ) and these particles were fired in a straight line through a slit and allowed to strike a screen on the other side, we would expect to see a pattern corresponding to the size and shape of the slit.
But we do not see this affect, after the particles of light pass through the slit:
However, when this "single-slit experiment" is actually performed, the pattern on the screen is a diffraction pattern in which the light is spread out. The smaller the slit, the greater the angle of spread.
Hence AFTER passing through the slit, the light travels as a wave.
Try the above link, Mawell's equations and Einstein says light travels first through space as a particle.
D You should take a reading comprehension class
It begins – If light was a particle then X
Then states – However, we do not experimentally get X –
R Maybe we both see things differently.... Notice my words below:
Young's experiment was first to prove light CAN function as a wave, AFTER affected by travelling through a slit. Than The corpuscular theory fell out of favour, largely because of Young's experiement, but was revived by Maxwell and Einstein. The photoelectric effect proves that light primarily travels as a particle first. Science now says Light has duality.
D You twist even the English to support your view – is that seriously being a true student – researcher – investigator
R I am not twisting anything. Sorry if my words confused you. The science common agreement is light travels through space as photons, as particles, not waves, until the light hits something, than a wave.
D The Holy Spirit is electromagnetic radiation – radiating from a source
God is the source – the Holy Spirit is God radiating through a distance
R your turning the HS AFFECT into a natural medium of the Father-YHWH. Simply a medium force of the Father?
No
The Scripture clearly parllels the ruwach coming from the Shadday, a co-eternal Being functioning as a mother, or responder of love, a co-eternal Being, a divine member of a divine familty of elohiym power.
If YHWH was all there is, you should expect H0430 and H0410 to equate "elohiym as el" but this is never an idea, nor is "elohiym yaccid"
Ge 35:11 And God <'elohiym> said <'amar> unto him, I am God <'el> Almighty <Shadday>
Ge 46:3 And he said <'amar>, I am God <'el>, the God <'elohiym> of thy father <'ab>:
Ex 15:2 The LORD <Yahh> is my strength <`oz> and song <zimrath>, and he is become my salvation <y@shuw`ah>: he <zeh> is my God <'el>, and I will prepare him an habitation <navah>; my father's <'ab> God <'elohiym>, and I will exalt <ruwm> him.
In Moses Hebrew torah, only three "el" powers are named:
el shaddayu - mother
el elohiym ab - father (another Hebrew word "al-lah" "eloah" has el in it for father-god)
yashuah el - Jesus our Saviour
Nu 16:22 And they fell <naphal> upon their faces <paniym>, and said <'amar>, O God <'el>, the God <'elohiym> of the spirits <ruwach> of all flesh <basar>,
An interesting set of nouns, "el elohym ruwach"
De 10:17 For the LORD <Y@hovah> your God <'elohiym> is God <'elohiym> of gods <'elohiym>, and Lord <'adown> of lords <'adown>, a great <gadowl> God <'el>,
Why the need to make verses like this?
Ps 43:4 Then will I go <bow'> unto the altar <mizbeach> of God <'elohiym>, unto God <'el> my exceeding <simchah> joy <giyl>:
Closest to saying elohiym is el
Ps 50:1 The mighty <'el> God <'elohiym>, even the LORD Y@hovah,
Closest to saying elohiym is el
Ps 57:2 I will cry <qara'> unto God <'elohiym> most high <'elyown>; unto God <'el> that performeth <gamar> all things for me.
Notice the mention of differences, the el most high
Ps 95:3 For the LORD <Y@hovah> is a great <gadowl> God <'el>, and a great <gadowl> King <melek> above all gods <'elohiym>.
Why say YHWH is el above other elohiyms?
Clearly other elohiym powers exist, a reference to other powers opposing GOD - these so called powers are mere "ant like creatures", nevertheless they oppose GOD. both humans and angels sin, and therefore both kinds have free will, thus both sinning kinds oppose GOD and His ways of love.
D The HS, which is also called the Shadday, are just the part of God that radiates throughout all creation
R The restitution ministries believe this, the HS is just a force from the Father, and many SDA's have defected to this idea. An idea published by James Stump, an SDA person I met years ago. He gave me his 450 page book on this subject. I prayed to GOD for help in this idea, and GOD inspired me to purchase an electronic Bible. Hence today I read and study Hebrew.
The easiest and most powerful way to refute this idea is that there are three named co-eternal functional descriptors of elohiym found in Job:
Job 40:1 ¶ Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
These are listed in Job often as "YWHW-Jesus, Eloah-Father and Shadday-HS"
These are three persons as similes of human persons (Gen 1:26) and Ephesians 3:!5,16 clearly states elohiym is a picture of family.
The HS talks, cries, moans and walks just as Beings do, hence a force does not do these things.
The medium living in us, is a divine personal medium, able to help us partner us to GOD, as a family concept.
GOD is relational. LOVE is relational. This alone negates the idea of GOD being one Being.
GOD is light. Light is not a single entity but a family concept. God is not in nature a single entity either.
D Why must everything be a metaphor
R Jeff Benner says half of Scripture is poetry, so we best get used to it.
D The Sun did not set until Joshua lowered his hands – did this really happen?
The shadow went backwards up the steps for Hezekiah – did this really happen?
David fought a giant – did this really happen?
R Yes all this really happened.
Adam was the first man.
Eve was the first woman.
Not Adam marrying Lillith, as you claim. Your ideas do not follow Moses torah.
D Gen 1:26 καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεός Ποιήσωμεν ἄνθρωπον
Ge 1:26 ¶ And God <'elohiym> said <'amar>, Let us make <`asah> man <'adam> in our image <tselem>
The Hebrew word here is "adam".
And elohiym family powers said let us do "adam" in our image.
D 2Ki 6:15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?
R so man can see only what man can see. The invisible angelic beings are invisible to us, unless GOD allows them to be visible.
D Question – who are all the angelic warriors? – are they biological people – if not then what are they
R it's your theory of faith your supposed to show to me, present it than...
Why ask me questions about your theory?
Angels are not allowed to show themselves to humans, these would make us fearful.
Angels are not biologically the same as humans, of a different kind.
D What is nephesh – you will not answer
R nephesh is a term used to describe when ordinary organic matter become living, in the sense of making decisions and having a mind to do things.
Nephesh literally means "living energy", we humans are literally living energy, partnered to GOD, GOD grants us to be independent from Him in many respects so we can love Him or choose not to love Him.
Other ordinary animals do not have this ability of loving GOD in this way.
D you keep saying it is the HS
The nephesh is NOT the HS. I say the nephesh is empowered by GOD via the medium of the HS.
There is a word for you, that word is nephesh.
Other ordinary animals have nephesh also, but unlike humans their loving response is not recorded by GOD, hence animals can do RA, but it is not recorded as sin. Hence ordinary animals do not have free will choice like humans have. If a creature is recorded in Scripture doing sin, this by defintion implies they must have free will to choose GOD or nay. For example since cherub is a creature like adam, and is recorded in a poetry simile with King Tyre also sinning, this implies the cherubs are similes of humans, who also sin. Hence angels also have free will like humans do, hence the purpose behind the poetry metaphor in Ezekiel 28.
D OK – what is this you – is it just the animal intellect – or is it the Nephesh named Robert
R All animals have nephesh. But some creatures with nephesh have their nephesh recorded.
Ec 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? (KJV)
Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
Human nephesh is recorded by GOD because humans are creatures able to sin, which is a special kind of RA, GOD holds the creature accountable for not choosing to love GOD properly.
Other creatures also sin, ie cherub chata, hence angels are also held accountable for sinning.
D You say the Nephesh = HS
R NO I have never said that, the HS is not our nephesh.
Organic dust + breath of life = nephesh.
The medium of the HS is on the other side of the equation, man is living energy because GOD empowers man to be living. Dust is on the other side of the equation too, that does not mean as you say, man is just organic matter. Evolution says are humans are worth $10 of fertilizer, that's it.
Quite the opposite. We are living energy.
Partnered to the great uncaused cause, we have a divine purpose, we are eternal because GOD is eternal.
But without GOD we are nothing, but partnered to GOD we are all things wonderful.
Therefore we have a purpose only we can forfil. Uniquely made for a unique purpose.
D You confuse theological themes – you obviously do not understand this verse
You are saying that all the sinners of earth are led to sin by the Lord – He directs us to sin
R no I am not saying that. Never. What an idea?
If you choose to sin, it is your decision alone.
D We are not God’s Spirit – we are not God – we are just man with his own spirit
R Hmm? one sentence. What is this spirit we have inside of us than? Do you have a Hebrew word for it?
Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Can't make qodosh ruwach and ruwach into different word meanings, because only pneumia is here.
Only ruwach is here...
Ro 8:16 The ruwach itself beareth witness with our ruwach, that we are the children of God:
So what does "we are just man with his own spirit" mean to you Dave?
R I think your referring to our character within the medium, the wind we take to heaven, that makes us, us.
D DUH – it is who we are – our own wind – our own Spirit
R So why don't you use other words than, like I do?
It's because you have attached added meanings too?
You say our character is immortal? Hmm? maybe in the sense it's unique.
Character cannot die? no. Such as concept exists alive in a body/mind, so apart from body/mind, the character cannot live or die.
Character can be forgotten? In wicked ones, yes. The mind/body dies and their character of RA is forgotten by all of us still alive in paradise.
Can character talk outside of the body/mind? no of course not.
Lu 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
What's this than Jesus spoke about? A fable the audience believed in.
Lu 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
These words negate the idea of character speaking. Character does not speak outside of the body/mind.
A great gulf fixed prevents this.
Ps 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (KJV)
Here the character stops once you experience mortal death.
Lu 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. (KJV)
Jesus makes a prophecy here. Jesus rose from the dead, did Jews listen to Jesus than? no
Some did, but many did not.
D Why doesn’t scripture just say this – why does scripture speak of spirit
Why must you change the words into something else
This is your word game – you change words around to tell a different story
Why can’t scripture be true and correct?
How much of it is historical fact – and how much is just a metaphor?
R Scripture says to investigate line upon line, every line, all the verses in fact, before you reach ideas of something.
I would not have spent so long with you, if I knew you followed Gnostic writings above the Moses Hebrew torah. But you do this, whereas I don't. I follow Moses torah first.
Scripture does not speak of "spirit", that is a translation problem. The ruwach is a medium or agency concept.
Notice what Jesus says about it:
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Are we born once or born daily by GOD? Creation happened once. Humans are born into RA but without sinning, just once. But GOD cannot remove you from RA, immediately, otherwise it changes your character, which has already done sinning too. We are changed slowly in a world of RA, until we finally stop all known sinning. Thus this creative affect is called a second birth. But it is a daily process, as well as having a beginning. The Seed (a term to describe Jesus ) becomes a seedling of power living in you.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
This man saw the second birth as entering the womb of GOD and coming out brand new, all with TOV, no sin taint, like Adam before He sinned. But chadesh does not mean "brand new" but "renewed". The moon is "not brand new each month" but "renewed each month". Jeff Benners explains chadesh.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The flesh is inherited with damaged DNA, propensities prone the mind to sin.
When born of spirit, we experience spirit. How is this achieved? as a once off event, or a creative daily process?
Ps 51:10-11 explains how, create in me a right spirit. The medium allows this creative process, its as literal as animals were created on a single day. But unlike animals created on a single day, we humans now living with RA, have to be creatively changed over our entire life time, so our character develops for GOD, by us choosing GOD.
Hence the process is daily, proving that we develop our characters, not GOD alone and immediately upon a onceoff second rebirth. No our rebirth is developed by us creatively with GOD over our life time, showing that we are worthy of living forever with him, not because we do good things, but because we support GOD's power flowing through us.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Most men do not understand medium or agency concepts. It is literal but must be spirutally understood.
The second birth is just as literal as when GOD spoke creation into existence. Every time you speak God's prayer promises of power your support of HIM empowering HIM to support you back, and that very day you experience the second birth of salvation (a divine person) empowering you. This is joy. This is Jesus alive flowing in you. Speak His words and allow His power to flow in you, humbly not arrogantly, meek not presumptously.
D Why must you change the words into something else
R Because some have asked a Rabbi, when we die what happens?
The Rabbi said the "spirit lives". What does this mean? It is misleading people.
When you die, your nephesh ends, your character development stops, and you sleep until GOD awakens you again.
D This is your word game – you change words around to tell a different story
Why can’t scripture be true and correct?
R Scripture is true if you study all the sentences each word is in, not pick and choose.
If I have prefixs and suffixs in my Hebrew, I would play letter games too?
Some say "hey" means this or that? I say "hey" is a letter to help us see ordinary Hebrew words about a Person.
DO we assume our translators have everthing correct?
Moses wrote the Hebrew torah in Ancient Hebrew, not modern Hebrew, so the grammar rules might not apply.
As you say we ponder confusion. But this is not so. Listen to the voice of GOD speaking to you.
Be guided by the spirit, left or right. This is the way, walk ye in it.
I would suggest throw your Gnostic writings out and start again reading Moses torah only first. Follow what Moses says. Read Jeff Benner Ancient Hebrew, because Moses did not write in Modern Hebrew.
Shalom