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Post by Dave on Aug 21, 2020 18:57:15 GMT -5
D this is a full part of being a spirit being R Why do you call man a "spirit being" ? (soul + (Mind/Body)) - LXX calls this a human being
How does Scripture tell us HOW to READ scripture? Isa 28:10 For precept <tsav> must be upon precept <tsav>, precept <tsav> upon precept <tsav>; line <qav> upon line <qav>, line <qav> upon line <qav>; I also get the idea that every measure and every command, has to be in harmony with each other.
I would like your comments on this verse
Precept is a principle and idea a set of commandments Precept upon precept and line upon line – does not equates WORDs ONLY HAVE ONE MEANING
How do you measure or read our Heavenly Father's commands? By measuring each word against each other, across all the commands that are on a particular theme. But you don't do this . No I measure theme (precept) upon theme For example H7853 means "oppose" in a verb action and "opposer" in a noun action. If you have a meeting, and an opposer and GOD come to together, the opposer has to be opposing GOD. This is just fantasy – make believe
You do not understand how to translate – you tranliterate words
Remember when we did a study of kathestemi? The Greek word is the same word as the Hebrew word Ge 42:6 And Joseph <Yowceph> was the governor <shalliyt> "shalliyt", and this word means according to Jeff Benner: Gen 42:6 Ιωσηφ δὲ ἦν ἄρχων LXX says ἄρχων = ruler / governor = <shalliyt> How can you just substitute words into sentences to get your desired meaning ἄρχων is not the same word or has the same meaning as καθίστημι
There are laws where provision is made to extinguish the right of ongoing living in creatures. This is not wounding them either. It's not killing them. It's simply GOD taking away what GOD is naturally, living. YES! The laws we are familiar with are for living creatures- earthly creatures
Is not sin defined as transgression of law? D YES! – written in the Torah to man for man R Oh so other heavenly creatures live under different eternal rules of living? D Where are your angel laws? Are they written down somewhere? Or are you projectioning man’s laws onto them? R Do you have any evidence to this idea from Scripture?
So if an angel owns property – and moves the boundary in the night – shal he be put to death If an angel touches the dead skin of a pig – must he be killed And under which circumstances can I sell an angel into bondage
I have evidence for my idea, that the laws of GOD apply to all creatures created.
So that angels must repent of sin Have a sabbat meal and set an empty place for Elijah
D God can and does commit premeditated murder – can you? R So you would say GOD is both functional and dysfunctional? D You are going to trick me into calling God dysfunctional R you just did." God can and does commit premeditated murder " Do you deny God killed all the first born of Egypt? Do you deny God killed all the people of Sodom and Gomorrah Do you deny God will send some to the lake of fire Do these same rules apply to man? Or to an angel?
God never wounds nobody. Except everyone that does not accept Him as their God
I have never smoked. Do I have too, to develop my experience of non smoking more? Have I missed something? I have never killed game with a gun. Do I have too, am I a bore, to have missed so much fun? Is doing RA fun? yes. but is doing RA necessary to fully develop love? You think so small – if you do not see the ra in the world – you are not looking
The prodigal son thought so, the other son who remained home thought not. The reward from the father was disproportionate in favor of the Prodigal son Rewards in heaven – do you deny them – is it just sleep till judgment then that’s all?
You say GOD had sex with Mary to get humanity unto Jesus' divinity. You know this is not a true statement – please stick to the fact of what I say
God tests us in a RA world if we TOV lvoe Him, yes I get that. But you have Adam already born with RA love working in him? Which it is, was Adam born with RA love already working? Or only with laws for RA love, should Adam sin? (soul is the home of yester tov +(Mind/Body the home of yester ra))
D Adam’s and Eve’s obedience would have meant nothing to the rest of creation The rest of creation would have just said – Look God made more obeying robots R What's wrong with that idea? You have this already with angels in heaven, but you say they have no free will either?
Where is the room for salvation – is not salvation – the redeemer – the promise of God
GOD cannot ever be harsh. GOD does not wound anybody. You should read scripture
D Robert – there is absolutely no way you understand what happens in a courtroom Joshua is the accused – Joshua is on trial The prosecutor’s job – is to accuse Joshua of each and every chata Joshua choose YHWY-CHRIST – is the Judge In this case – the judge said to the prosecutor - stop – say no more – shut up Why – because – God has granted Joshua a divine pardon – and plucked from the fire
You really need to study this verse more – your perception of it is in error
R show me Bible texts that describe the heavenly court room in this way. Yeah earthly court rooms, yes, I get what you are saying. But the Bible does NOT describe heavenly judgement in this way. How about Zec 3:1-2 – exactly as an earthly courtroom There is no need to change scripture into something else
D for the expression – KNOW YOUR ENEMY and Knowledge is Power – and The Best Defense is a good Offense R I would disagree entirely with this. Scripture says to fight the good fight of support. So you disagree with
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
You cannot fight shadows of death. The best way to fight in a moral RA war, is to look at the light, support the light, walk towards the light. Sit in the light. Read under light. Get empowered by light. Forget the darkness. Einstein says such things do not exist anyhow.
So you cannot fight againt the dark forces – so you just remain passive
D Because Jews do not believe in your satan – none of them – not as an evil god R Jews do not believe in the HS either, it is a wind to them. – it is spirit – how do you describe spirit They do not believe in a divine Son either, all this is poly theism. And the Messianic Jew will tell you that YHWY = Christ = HS
Would a Jew accept the word kurios here is YHWH, and the same word for kurios Jesus. as YHWH-yashua? I doubt it. What is Jude doing? He is making YHWH the Christ that comes, from Enoch's time. YES! – Enoch and the Book of Adam and Eve both promise the son of man as redeemer
R I thought you said Job was pious only. Now Job was fully supporting GOD? yes He was Job is written for us, give us hope. Job did not deserve bad things, sometimes they happen... So now you have no concept of what pious mean – don’t you have a dictionary
D You are the first ‘Christian’ that I even met that denies the soul – I was unaware this was SDA doctrine until I met you R I don't deny a nephesh. You say when I die, my nephesh remains somewhere? When I die, my nephesh ceases to exist.
And who was standing with Jesus in the transfiguration Moses and Elijah must be in the grave sleeping according to you
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 1:31:59 GMT -5
Happy Sabbath Dave Thanks for getting back to me
I notice a logical block to our studies, Jews only tolerate "one heavenly god"..
D writes: "God killed all the first born of Egypt? R replies: Correct. The passage is a metaphor of how GOD rescues people and saves them. Those who refuse salvation , cease to be no more.
D writes: " God killed all the people of Sodom and Gomorrah Correct. The passage is a metaphor of how GOD punishes the wicked finally. Those who refuse salvation , cease to be no more.
D writes: " God will send some to the lake of fire Correct. The passage is a metaphor of how GOD punishes the wicked finally, including sinning angels. They receive punishing accord to their deeds, and than cease to be no more.
D writes: " Do these same rules apply to man? Or to an angel? R to both, any creature that sins.
EGW: "The flames that consumed the cities of the plain shed their warning light down even to our time. We are taught the fearful and solemn lesson that while God's mercy bears long with the transgressor, there is a limit beyond which men may not go on in sin. When that limit is reached, then the offers of mercy are withdrawn, and the ministration of judgment begins. The Redeemer of the world declares that there are greater sins than that for which Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. Those who hear the gospel invitation calling sinners to repentance, and heed it not, are more guilty before God than were the dwellers in the vale of Siddim. And still greater sin is theirs who profess to know God and to keep His commandments, yet who deny Christ in their character and their daily life. In the light of the Saviour's warning, the fate of Sodom is a solemn admonition ... to all who are trifling with Heaven-sent light and privileges. 34Ibid., 162-165.
EGW: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:7. The outlook in our world is indeed alarming. God is withdrawing His Spirit from the wicked cities, which have become as the cities of the antediluvian world, and as Sodom and Gomorrah. The inhabitants of these cities have been tested and tried. We have reached a time when God is about to punish the presumptuous wrongdoers, who refuse to keep His commandments and disregard His messages of warning. He who bears long with evildoers gives everyone an opportunity to seek Him and humble their hearts before Him.
Hope these make sense to you.
D How about Zec 3:1-2 – exactly as an earthly courtroom There is no need to change scripture into something else R I see. Can't find any Jewish commentaries on Zech 3:1-3, worth reading.
D And who was standing with Jesus in the transfiguration Moses and Elijah must be in the grave sleeping according to you R very funny. Moses was resurrected as nephesh, and Elijah went up in a HS chariot without seeing death, in the same nephesh he had on earth, the same as Enoch did, walked right into heaven, in a human earthly body.
I notice the problem I have with oppose, is not Biblical evidence:
www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13219-satan
Job account:
Yet it is also evident from the prologue that Satan has no power of independent action, but requires the permission of God, which he may not transgress.He can not be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity; and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence no more than by the presence of other beings before the face of God. This view is also retained in Zech. iii. 1-2, where Satan is described as the adversary of the high priest Joshua, and of the people of God whose representative the hierarch is; and he there opposes the "angel of the Lord," who bids him be silent in the name of God. In both of these passages Satan is a mere accuser who acts only according to the permission of the Deity; but in I Chron. xxi. 1 he appears as one who is able to provoke David to destroy Israel. The Chronicler (third century B.C.) regards Satan as an independent agent, a view which is the more striking since the source whence he drew his account (II Sam. xxiv. 1) speaks of God Himself as the one who moved David against the children of Israel. Since the older conception refers all events, whether good or bad, to God alone (I Sam. xvi. 14; I Kings xxii. 22; Isa. xlv. 7; etc.), it is possible that the Chronicler, and perhaps even Zechariah, were influenced by Zoroastrianism, even though in the case of the prophet Jewish monism strongly opposed Iranian dualism (Stave, "Einfluss des Parsismus auf das Judenthum," pp. 253 et seq.). An immediate influence of the Babylonian concept of the "accuser, persecutor, and oppressor" (Schrader, "K. A. T." 3d ed., p. 463) is impossible, since traces of such an influence, if it had existed, would have appeared in the earlier portions of the Bible
Jews because of their strong one god concept, do not allow other gods in their religion, hence exclude Satan opposing GOD, therefore any evidence contrary must be ignored, or they assume influenced by Zoroastrianism.
The Jews are biased in their thinking with one god, no other heavenly elohiym beings are allowed.
Notice the biased assessment of Gordon with his study on Elohiym
"So why does Elohim have a plural suffix if it is numerically singular with a singular verb and singular adjective? It turns out there is a special type of plural in Hebrew that has a plural suffix even though it is numerically singular with a singular verb and singular adjective. These nouns are called majestic plurals" Gordon, 2003
And than later
It is worth noting that the word Elohim is not always a majestic plural. When referring to the pagan gods, the term Elohim is usually a numerical plural."(Gordon, 2003).
So why is elohiym plural for pagan gods, but not plural for elohiym?
Certainly this does not mean that YHWH made Moses into a god, but rather that he would speak to Pharaoh with authority through Aaron who would serve as his mouth-piece in the way that the prophets serve as the mouth-pieces of YHWH. In any event, there is clearly nothing multiple about Moses, even though he was made an Elohim to Pharaoh (Gordon, 2003)."
Gordon's context is a communication system process. Is there anything multiple about this system of communication? Everything, we have three mouths all speaking, GOD, Moses and Aaron. We have a flow of powerful communication via GOD through this "earthly elohim" system. There is a model of both "earthly elohim" and heavenly Elohim represented here.
The power of Elohim flows from the source to other relational Beings. Is this note a possible meaning? Surely one can see the power flow of the Father YHWH flows into Moses and His representative prophet Aaron, as a model of earthly elohim, and is a typology of the heavenly Elohim?
1Ki 11:33 Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess "elohim" of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god "elohim" of the Moabites, and Milcom the god "elohim" of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father.
In this example we see "Elohim" used three times to denote pagan deities. Gordon has an interesting comment to make about this verse.
"Here we see three pagan deities each of which is referred to as an Elohim. Obviously the book of Kings is not saying that any of these false deities is a "great God". On the contrary, the verse goes on to rebuke the Israelites for worshipping them. The meaning is that the Sidonians, Moabites, and Ammonites looked upon their deities as great Gods and in this instance Scripture employs the terms used by the pagans themselves to refer to their own deities. At the same time we must observe that Ashtoret, Kemosh, and Milkom are each referred to as Elohim even though there is nothing multiple about any one of them."
Gordon is suggesting the Hebrew word for "elohim" is different to the pagan religions that also use "elohim". Why should the word have a different meaning? If Hebrew was the Mother of all languages from Eden, then the word "Elohim" must have first meant something in Hebrew, and a picture of what God is like. This picture must be a Family picture of Beings, because Satanic religions has counterfeited the word picture with polytheism. We of modern times assume "eloihm" only appeared to Abraham after coming out of Ur, a Babylonian city. The fact is, Hebrew has been around nearly 2000 years before, and so has pagan religions and traditions, before the great flood. So these false religions and their schemes we are not told about before the flood.
Gordon protests and says Were YHWH Elohim a plurality the verse would have to have read,"And (they) YHWH Elohim said".
Consider the concept of marriage is the "two become "echad" flesh".
Is there an example of disregarding one member of GOD when speaking of another member of God?
Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. 10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
Ahabuah love is feminine as love, YHWH is masculine as love, both a mentioned by name, but the manner of love is written as His love, not their love. Notice also HIS HS, too.
Ge 20:13 And it came to pass, when ELOHIM (with plural verb) caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.
"So contrary to the expected rule of Elohim getting a singular verb, here Elohim gets a plural verb. Because of this plural verb, we could literally translate this phrase "gods caused me to wander". From this verse alone it indeed appears that Abraham worshipped multiple gods whom he believed had caused him to wander from his father's house. However, this hardly fits the overall picture."
Gordon has a theory of faith that says the majority of passages over rules the meaning of minor problem ones, whereas a true Bible scholar must fit all Bible contexts into a single overall picture...Every Bible context must make sense. It seems even Abraham knew Elohim meant a "Heavenly kind of powers".
(2)Ge 35:7 And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there ELOHIM (with plural verb) appeared unto him, when he fled from the face of his brother. " But the basic question still remains. Why are there these three instances in the Tanach where Elohim receives a plural verb?"
"Let us remember that the rule of Elohim receiving a singular verb does actually work in some 2000 instances and the three verses just mentioned are the only exceptions in the entire Tanach. ...Could it be that these three anomalous verses hint at some great mystery about the paradoxical and contradictory nature of God? Or is there a much simpler, linguistic explanation?"
But Gordon says the calf was a single calf idol that was called ELOHIM. He asks the question : "Why would the Israelites call a single calf "gods"? Well what did the calf represent?
Gordon uses mental twisting to make his case as one of 'attraction'
"The masculine plural form of the word Elohim had more attractive pull than the numerically singular meaning. As a result, it appears that the Israelites are referring to the golden calf as multiple false-gods when really they meant only a singular false-god."
Gordon "Why are there these three instances in the Tanach where Elohim receives a plural verb?"
Rob : "He fails to notice admit this problem verse overrides his theology."
My Jewish friend answers: "You will allow three obscure, out of the ordinary verses to override the preponderance of the evidence that favors a singular Elohim? I will not put any weight on those verses until the Holy Spirit reveals to me why those three verbs are plural."
Rob ".. the single calf represented a system of deities, as the word Elohim means."
My Jewish friend answers: "What system of deities? Aaron made one deity to worship, a calf. You want to turn it into a system to justify your erroneous definition of Elohim."
Rob replies: The calf was the first letter of Hebrew, meaning strong one. Did Israel see elohiym as a family deity? Ephesians 3:15 does.
Email to Gordon:
1) When God made Moses and Aaron elohim, does this not suggest Elohim represents a system of beings ? 2) Did not Ashoterth represent a system of deities as Elohim suggests? 3) Did not the golden calf, represent a system of deities as the plural Elohim suggests? You mention of the 2000+ uses of Elohim, several of them refer to Elohim as plurality. Does this not suggest Elohim means a system of persons as strong authorities all along, and that Jews in their faith over time restricted it's meaning because the single use of Elohim was used more often? Rob"
Gordon replies: "My limited Jewish mind can't believe in a "system of deities". I wish you the best in your polytheism! Nehemia"
Jews do not see elohiym as a heavenly family of power, Like Ephesians 3:15 show us.
Your problem too Dave is you only see "one god" as an authority. Therefore you cannot have any authority opposing the heavenly powers.
Ge 20:13 And it came to pass, when ELOHIM (with plural verb) caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.
Abram knew what elohiym meant. It's recorded right here.
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
First of God's royal laws.
Whom is the opposing elohiym powers before YHWH's face? How come Scripture does not identify this? Is it just man made images that pretend to be divine? Don't Jews acknowledge this mitzvah? They clearly don't, because it's talking about some other elohiym power claiming to be divine, opposing GOD. Do you have an Jewish commentary on www on this?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 22, 2020 11:09:30 GMT -5
D writes: "God killed all the first born of Egypt? R replies: Correct. The passage is a metaphor of how GOD rescues people and saves them. Those who refuse salvation , cease to be no more. The passage is a metaphor – so you deny it actually happenedD writes: " God killed all the people of Sodom and Gomorrah Correct. The passage is a metaphor of how GOD punishes the wicked finally. Those who refuse salvation , cease to be no more. The passage is a metaphor – so you deny it actually happenedD writes: " God will send some to the lake of fire Correct. The passage is a metaphor of how GOD punishes the wicked finally, including sinning angels. They receive punishing accord to their deeds, and than cease to be no more. The passage is a metaphor – so you deny it will actually happenedD writes: " Do these same rules apply to man? Or to an angel? R to both, any creature that sins. So any creature that sins can commit fist degree premeditated murder? This is such a fantasy it is ridicules Hope these make sense to you.They deserved to die – so it is OK for God to commit murder – they deserved it So who preached the Gospel there that was rejected God never introduced Himself to Sodom – Gomorrah – or Egypt How could these people reject a God they have never known?D How about Zec 3:1-2 – exactly as an earthly courtroom There is no need to change scripture into something else R I see. Can't find any Jewish commentaries on Zech 3:1-3, worth reading.It is simple and straight forward – in Hebrew – in Greek – or English Why would it require a long winded commentary to expound upon something simple and straight forwardD And who was standing with Jesus in the transfiguration Moses and Elijah must be in the grave sleeping according to you R very funny. Moses was resurrected as nephesh, and Elijah went up in a HS chariot without seeing death, in the same nephesh he had on earth, the same as Enoch did, walked right into heaven, in a human earthly body. How can Moses be resurrected – it is not the Final Judgement You insist that there are no one (no men) in heaven – we are all asleep until the end Impossible you say – only memories Your theology is not consistant
I notice the problem I have with oppose, is not Biblical evidence: www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13219-satanJews because of their strong one god concept, do not allow other gods in their religion, hence exclude Satan opposing GOD, therefore any evidence contrary must be ignored, or they assume influenced by Zoroastrianism. The Jews are biased in their thinking with one god, no other heavenly elohiym beings are allowed.Again I am going to say this is just not fact – or even close to it Who are the Bane elohiym Who are the 9 orders of angels Who is Lillith or the shedimJdg 2:1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you. Jdg 2:2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? Jdg 2:3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you. ‘other gods’ – angels – satan – bane elohiym - shedim – Lillith = all heavenly beingsThe difference is - they acknoledge it - and move on with following the Lord Catholics and you - have made an entire theology around these satanic beings - empowering them - you even believe that your satan can stand against the One True Creator But you derny empowering satan while diminishing God The entire threology of the Great Controversy = diminish God and empower satan - make them equaly strong on the battelfield - Hope God wins because so far - according to you - satan owns the whole world and is driving God's PlanNotice the biased assessment of Gordon with his study on Elohiym "So why does Elohim have a plural suffix if it is numerically singular with a singular verb and singular adjective? It turns out there is a special type of plural in Hebrew that has a plural suffix even though it is numerically singular with a singular verb and singular adjective. These nouns are called majestic plurals" Gordon, 2003 And than later It is worth noting that the word Elohim is not always a majestic plural. When referring to the pagan gods, the term Elohim is usually a numerical plural."(Gordon, 2003). So why is elohiym plural for pagan gods, but not plural for elohiym?Majestic plural = Trinity – the 3 are just 1 ‘other gods’ = many – no capital g – plural – Moloch, Baal, Chemush, Dogon, etcThere is a model of both "earthly elohim" and heavenly Elohim represented here. See your zero polsemeny – majestic meaning – other god meaning – earthly meaning1Ki 11:33 Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess "elohim" of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god "elohim" of the Moabites, and Milcom the god "elohim" of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father. In this example we see "Elohim" used three times to denote pagan deities. Gordon has an interesting comment to make about this verse. "Here we see three pagan deities each of which is referred to as an Elohim. Obviously the book of Kings is not saying that any of these false deities is a "great God". On the contrary, the verse goes on to rebuke the Israelites for worshipping them. The meaning is that the Sidonians, Moabites, and Ammonites looked upon their deities as great Gods and in this instance Scripture employs the terms used by the pagans themselves to refer to their own deities. At the same time we must observe that Ashtoret, Kemosh, and Milkom are each referred to as Elohim even though there is nothing multiple about any one of them." Gordon is suggesting the Hebrew word for "elohim" is different to the pagan religions that also use "elohim". Why should the word have a different meaning? If Hebrew was the Mother of all languages from Eden, then the word "Elohim" must have first meant something in Hebrew, and a picture of what God is like. This picture must be a Family picture of Beings, Why must it be a family picture of multiple godsGordon protests and says Were YHWH Elohim a plurality the verse would have to have read,"And (they) YHWH Elohim said". YES! – The Trinity could be a they anytimeConsider the concept of marriage is the "two become "echad" flesh".God and the HS are not married – Marriage is a animal thing – not a heavenly thing – do angels marry"So contrary to the expected rule of Elohim getting a singular verb, here Elohim gets a plural verb. Because of this plural verb, we could literally translate this phrase "gods caused me to wander". Only if you deny the Trinity But Gordon says the calf was a single calf idol that was called ELOHIM. He asks the question : "Why would the Israelites call a single calf "gods"? Well what did the calf represent? Because it was something to focuses your worship upon other than the One True God Just like mammon – wealth, power, or fame Rob ".. the single calf represented a system of deities, as the word Elohim means."My Jewish friend answers: "What system of deities? Aaron made one deity to worship, a calf. You want to turn it into a system to justify your erroneous definition of Elohim." I agree with him – you are inventing things One calf = an entire system of gods – cannot imagine how you come up with this stuff You read one line of scripture – then drift off into a different realityRob replies: The calf was the first letter of Hebrew, meaning strong one. Did Israel see elohiym as a family deity? Ephesians 3:15 does. What does this mean? – every word in Hebrew that begins this way = an entire system of gods - crazyYou butcher your favorite verse to make it fit your theology Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, And earth – do not forget the rest of the verse The family of God = those in heaven and those on earth No long winded commentary to make it mean something elseEmail to Gordon: Gordon replies: "My limited Jewish mind can't believe in a "system of deities". I wish you the best in your polytheism! You family idea of 3 independent beings in a family of 3 = polytheism Trinity – one God – and a duality of expression = One true God with a spirit and an imageJews do not see elohiym as a heavenly family of power, Like Ephesians 3:15 show us. Not as you present it – nor do IYour problem too Dave is you only see "one god" as an authority. Therefore you cannot have any authority opposing the heavenly powers. There is only one true Creator – who created everything through Him – For Him!Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. First of God's royal laws.And – your theology revolves around = Whom is the opposing elohiym powers before YHWH's face?Do you have a Jewish commentary on www on this?‘other gods’www.jewishencyclopedia.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&keywords=other+gods&commit=searchall real – all acting as pseud-gods –rulers – governors = archon
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 15:09:29 GMT -5
D They deserved to die – so it is OK for God to commit murder – they deserved it D So who preached the Gospel there that was rejected Sodom was around the Garden of Eden, I suspect where the dead Sea is today. Ellen White says GOD took the Garden back to heaven, before the earth was flooded by a great flood, hence the dead sea is a ground of soil below sea level, suggests this area for me. Adam would have preached the gospel to them, as would Enoch.
D God never introduced Himself to Sodom – Gomorrah – or Egypt How could these people reject a God they have never known? R In Egypt, they all heard of the Hebrew god of Moses, and watched all that went on. I assume only the lower Nile was affected by God's presence?
D Why would it require a long winded commentary to expound upon something simple and straight forward R because you do not have any power except one in heaven, so Jews would not write more about it. Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Humans worship the dragon, who can make war with the dragon?
Suppose you take the entire judge to court for corruption, how would you do this? Suppose COV19 is a hoax and I take the entire Government of Australia to court and accurse them of corruption, deceiving mankind Australians. How would do you do this in court? What would it look like?
In this case the judge himself is charged by the prosecutor, and the witnesses called forward help the opposer charge the judge as corrupt and unfair in it's dealing with witnesses. The witnesses are the only way to resolve this charge.
The defendent lawyer argues the witnesses do not say the court judge is corrupt, the prosecuting lawyer opposes this idea and says the witness sin like other subjects do, and thus no have no claim to use this person as a witness. How would we go looking for this idea in Scripture?
Well if you see only one cardinal authority allowed, you would never go looking, would you?
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
This verse would do this idea for me.
A star fell from heaven because he wanted the Father's job , He wanted worship as a Father god on earth.
Is there a religion that worships a father-god on earth? yes
Hab 1:11 Then shall his mind change, and he shall pass over, and offend, imputing this his power unto his god. "eloah" "father-god"
Yet this powerful religion is raised up as antiChrist by Christ Himself? Why?
Hab 1:5 ¶ Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you. 6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation,
Why? How else does Jesus get Jews to worship Jesus? so He sends them a delusion.
Sometimes GOD sends RA, even RA religions to get people to wake up...
D How can Moses be resurrected – it is not the Final Judgement You insist that there are no one (no men) in heaven – we are all asleep until the end Impossible you say – only memories Your theology is not consistent
R "first fruits", its a hebrew theme, study what it means youself
D The entire threology of the Great Controversy = diminish God and empower satan - make them equaly strong on the battelfield - Hope God wins because so far - according to you - satan owns the whole world and is driving God's Plan
R No, GOD sends angels to lock and unlock the abyss where sinning angels are stored on earth. God is in control, but He must also allow these angels some limited independent powers as well. You have assumed the Opposer obeys GOD, maybe to a little amount, but not within his powers GOD allows. The opposer hates humans, especially saved ones. He also noticed Job, but refused to acknowledged he lost battling Job against GOD.
D Why must it be a family picture of multiple gods R do not ever consider a family as multiple anything.... Hebrew does not do this...
There is cardnial one family of divinity. Nothing multiple about this.
Le 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
Verses like this say marriage (a term invented by GOD, and family, a term invented by GOD too, are not considered as multiple beings, but cardinally one being. The two become cardinally one flesh is Hebrew.
You follow a Greek pagan idea, having the HS creating on her own, not so in Hebrew Scriptures. The divinity creates as one family, nothing is ever done independently alone. Though family members can be at times alone from others:
De 32:12 So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.
Yet if you look into this passage, the divine family was not far way from Yashua-YHWH
De 32:11 As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings: 12 So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him. 13 He made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields; and he made him to suck honey out of the rock, and oil out of the flinty rock;
Verse 11 HS eagle poetry picture Verse 13 Father flint rock poetry picture. Verse 12 Yashua-YHWH functioned as a messenger from the divine family home.
D Why must it be a family picture R because elohiym powers make humans in their image Gen 1:26, two personalities, but one being of flesh.
compound unity.
D God and the HS are not married – Marriage is a animal thing – not a heavenly thing – do angels marry R marriage is a elohiym theme , GOD is not human either, nor of matter, time or space
so the marriage theme functions as a simile for the divine theme
D One calf = an entire system of gods – cannot imagine how you come up with this stuff R the calf is a symbol of the first letter of Hebrew, "A" the ox head, or bull head, or calf head.
Egyptians worshipped "family gods", the calf represented this idea.
Just as Jesus quotes the A and T he means the entire Hebrew letters, its a system He refers to.
I am the first and last, also quotes the entire human experience of humans. Another example.
D You family idea of 3 independent beings in a family of 3 = polytheism Trinity – one God – and a duality of expression = One true God with a spirit and an image R my understanding is a family of divinity is seen as one, not three as you claim.
You stick to a Catholic word and twist the oneness into three expressions of the one.
When the Hebrew letter "hey" is used, it is not a picture of some ghostly expression, but a whole person.
Though I see your point, PaleoHebrew "hey", looks like a "ghostly person". I suspect a corrupted drawing later in time
D Not as you present it – nor do I R OK than what does Eph 3:10-16 picture?
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. First of God's royal laws. D And – your theology revolves around = Whom is the opposing elohiym powers before YHWH's face? R yes, care to answer this?
Or does man worship man, as man sins only from man's sins, so man opposes GOD only. Man is the only heavenly elohiym that opposes God. Is that your idea? It was man that fell from heaven like lightning? There is no dragon that gives man his powers of sin, man empowers man to sin, is that it? OK some archons are designed to do ra, but not sin, since they obey GOD, help man to worship man, and thus oppose GOD, so only the wicked man opposes GOD, since only man chooses GOD. Archons cannot choose anything. Why would GOD create a terrible cruel testing resigme to test free will to choose GOD? I don't this?
Do animals have to be tested to love GOD? Tested with hate, death, rape and murder? So all this helps me to love God more? It's silly Dave, cruel even.
So a girl raped for several years, now can love GOD more fully? I doubt she will ever be normal enough to choose anything of GOD with so much hate in her life already. You do not have a theory of faith that explains a God of love at all.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 22, 2020 15:59:20 GMT -5
D They deserved to die – so it is OK for God to commit murder – they deserved it D So who preached the Gospel there that was rejected Sodom was around the Garden of Eden, Sorry Robert – Sodom and Gomorrah were during the time of Abraham and Lot No Adam there – No Enoch there – to introduction to YHWY there At this time – YHWY had only made Himself known to Abraham
D God never introduced Himself to Sodom – Gomorrah – or Egypt How could these people reject a God they have never known? R In Egypt, they all heard of the Hebrew god of Moses, and watched all that went on. I assume only the lower Nile was affected by God's presence? How did the peasant farmer understand what was happening in Pharaoh’s palace – did He see it on Sky News, CNN, or read it in t newspaper of the day?
D Why would it require a long winded commentary to expound upon something simple and straight forward R because you do not have any power except one in heaven, so Jews would not write more about it. OK – then a Christian commentary about it Zechariah Chapter 3 - www.bible-studys.org/Bible%20Books/Zechariah/Zechariah%20Chapter%203.htmlZechariah 3:1 "And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him." Verses 1-13: The fourth vision is of “Joshua the High Priest standing before the angel of the Lord.” The scene is invested with a judicial character as Joshua, the High Priest of the restoration who came back in the first group with Zerubbabel (Ezra 3:2; 5:2; Hag. 1:1), was accused by Satan, who was standing at the right side, the place of accusation under the law (Psalm 109:6). That Joshua was representative of the nation is evident from: 1. The emphasis on the nation in these visions; 2. The fact that the rebuke (in verse 2), is based on God’s choice of Jerusalem, not Joshua; 3. The identification (in verse 8), of Joshua and his fellow priests as symbolic of future Israel; and 4. Its application to the land (in verse 9). “Satan”: This could also be translated “adversary” and thus the person’s identity would be unknown. However, because the activity of accusation is so in keeping with Satan (Job, chapters 1 and 2; Rev. 12:10), his identification is preferable. The malicious adversary stands in the presence of the Lord to proclaim Israel’s sins and their unworthiness of God’s favor. Simple – straight forward – not complicatedIsa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. This verse would do this idea for me. Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; This verse is all about as man named CyrusHab 1:5 ¶ Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you. 6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, Why? How else does Jesus get Jews to worship Jesus? so He sends them a delusion. Sometimes GOD sends RA, even RA religions to get people to wake up... Ooops! Did you just say God uses ra as a tool? – very Gnostic If satan hates God and opposes God – why does he work for God? R "first fruits", its a hebrew theme, study what it means youselfYou went on at length how I do not understand this we are just in the grave until the judgment The HS only has our memories in heaven
You are no true to your own doctrine
D Why must it be a family picture R because elohiym powers make humans in their image Gen 1:26, two personalities, but one being of flesh. compound unity.One Creastor that we cannot imagine – His image and His Spirit that we can relate to One God – two personalities (if you have to use this man term) I say – One God – two expressions – one of image and one of SpiritD Your family idea of 3 independent beings in a family of 3 = polytheism Trinity – one God – and a duality of expression = One true God with a spirit and an imageR my understanding is a family of divinity is seen as one, not three as you claim.You claim that God and Christ are two different beings You claim that Christ and the HS are two different beings You claim that Jesu Christ cannot communicate with God in heaven unless they are two different independent beings You are not consistent
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2020 14:47:29 GMT -5
D No Adam there – No Enoch there – to introduction to YHWY there At this time – YHWY had only made Himself known to Abraham
R Oh, sorry, a historical goof on my part. Maybe they lives around the dead sea, to mock where Eden once was? As for the gospel presentation into these cities, I don't know. We do know Shang Dei in Chinese went after Noah an his sons spread out, and so the Chinese were the first major group of YHWH supporters of the faith, long before Abram. Ham, the dark one, went towards Egypt, maybe did not witness so well for the Lord?
Your study link
“Satan”: This could also be translated “adversary” and thus the person’s identity would be unknown. However, because the activity of accusation is so in keeping with Satan (Job, chapters 1 and 2; Rev. 12:10), his identification is preferable. The malicious adversary stands in the presence of the Lord to proclaim Israel’s sins and their unworthiness of God’s favor.
Nicely written. This unknown adversary in simple English means "oppose or opposer"\ I get this meaning because the Lord opposed the path on the road for the donkey,, no words were said. Hence opposer opposing the donkey fits better for all sentences these words are used in.
Again people choose a narrow field, the noun form only, and do not based their meaning also on the verb form.
The plough went to plough. The famer produced produce. The man went to love her with is love. Such different actions of the same word have to have similar meanings, since the word is the same as letters.
The opposer opposes salvation. Salvation is a person. Therefore the opposer is opposing GOD, indirectly yes.
But your Jewish doctrine forbids you to entertain "gods plural" in heaven. So you reject this idea.
Part of the problem is the idea of god. A creature cannot be a god. Our translators are poor at defining "el" as god. It does not mean god anyhow.
"el" means "strong authority" and this fits all the sentences.
Read my link study on this word spiritualsprings.org/ss-1391.htm
Satan, the accuser, was standing at the right hand of Joshua. Satan was there to accuse Joshua to the Judge.
Perhaps in earthly courts, the two opposing lawyers are friends, except when in court, they oppose each other.
The defendent lawyer and the prosecuting lawyer oppose each other over this human.
you do not see why the opposer might oppose?
This bright star that fell from heaven has a kingdom and is a king or prince of earth. Prosecuting prince. The other star that remains in heaven also has a kingdom from humans, is a king or prince of earth. Defending prince.
But your Jewish docrine forbids multiple gods fighting each other. Again who says this is about gods fighting.
Does the Jew allow a term for strong authorities fighting and opposing each other over human subjects for their kingdom?
D This verse is all about as man named Cyrus R Another king tyre poetry metaphor hey?
Joshua is aonly about Joshua too, not a metaphor for Yashua?
Moses was just Moses, not a simile of YHWH?
Eve was not a simile of the HS?
Noah has nothing to say about GOD either?
Is there a principle behiind all this?
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Things show us pictures of GOD
aside: what Hebrew word would have been "Godhead" here?
D Ooops! Did you just say God uses ra as a tool? – very Gnostic
R God uses natural RA, but not moral RA as a tool, yes. Since all living come from GOD, ending the living is natural, not moral as the law says no wounding. So GOD does not tragress your right to living if you refuse to respect His love keeping your alive Sodom people were killed in milliseconds by hot sulphur and gas... not a slow torture as we imagine Again a type of how the end of cities will be.
D If satan hates God and opposes God – why does he work for God?
R He doesn't. But he is limited by GOD
Re 20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Locked
Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Unlocked
Notice the humans worship the dragon, saying who can war with the dragon?
Re 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born
The dragon wars even with Christ, to devour him from birth
The dragon wars even with angels causing many to sin
But your Jewish doctrine forbids strong authorities opposing each other?
D You went on at length how I do not understand this we are just in the grave until the judgment The HS only has our memories in heaven
You are no true to your own doctrine
R Sure God has memories of you, and so raises some back to nephesh again. As fristfruits of living forever with Jesus, before the final end of all things.
D One God – two personalities (if you have to use this man term) I say – One God – two expressions – one of image and one of Spirit
R you are forbidden as a Jew to make anything multiple of GOD as you try.
What is a Jew? Certainly not Hebrews? One of the 13 tribes. Joseph was allowed to make 2 tribes. Dan tribe was erased. If your a child of Abram, you are child of promise, not of Jews, but of Jesus, the new Hebrew line.
Hence new wine in new wine skins. Wine remains the same, only in new settings.
I am a Jesus Jew, not a tribal Jew, more correctly cross over, a Hebrew. Scripture does not picture family as expressions. The titles father and son, are not expressions but family members.
Even Jesus called wisdom and her children by name.
D You claim that God and Christ are two different beings R yes
D You claim that Christ and the HS are two different beings R yes
D You claim that Jesu Christ cannot communicate with God in heaven unless they are two different independent beings
R I never said that. On earth to humans sinning yes, God talks to RA through a medium. Abram is RA, so GOD talks through a medium, which is natural RA, and this allows fully TOV GOD to flow through the medium, and dilute down to a level RA is nurtured by without dying immediately.
When Jesus took up humanity he did as fallen nature, ie RA, He took up RA to saved humans in RA. So yes GOD uses natural RA to reach humans trapped in RA, but never once did Jesus do a moral RA. Jesus got tired... this is natural RA.
D You are not consistent R I try to be. In heaven Jesus retains that scarred body in human form for eternity, as the Law says, life for life.
So GOD does become similes of humans... I will see those scars, that RA body and weep
My RA body is made brand new without RA, but Jesus has a different body, the same one we humans on earth once had. Divinity must somehow cope with this , while we humans would become sinners again, if we did not have a TOV body back.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 23, 2020 21:49:00 GMT -5
As for the gospel presentation into these cities, I don't know. We do know Shang Dei in Chinese went after Noah an his sons spread out, and so the Chinese were the first major group of YHWH supporters of the faith, long before Abram. Ham, the dark one, went towards Egypt, maybe did not witness so well for the Lord?
Gen 12 – YHWY introduces Himsellf to Abram Do you have evidence that there was an underground grass roots gospel movement by the lay people of Egypt? Or or you just making things up?
SORRY – God only introduces Himself to the 1% - and they are to be his witness of God’s Glory to all nations The 99% - were left in the dark – not formally introduced Yet – instinctively – they all knew of the Creator – Psa 19:1 BUT - In this void – vacuum - ‘other gods’ – stepped up to sever that role for the 99% This is what God did - This was God’s plan because it is God’s world
If you say – it is satan’s plan for the world Then I will ask – why didn’t God make Himself known to all of them Instead of one genetic family walking and being taught by YHWY Why did God just introduce Himself to the whole world – He is LOVE right?
WHY? – Answer – because He didn’t that is all I know How can you have a Contest (Gen 3:15) without contestants?
Your study link
“Satan”: This could also be translated “adversary” and thus the person’s identity would be unknown. However, because the activity of accusation is so in keeping with Satan (Job, chapters 1 and 2; Rev. 12:10), his identification is preferable. The malicious adversary stands in the presence of the Lord to proclaim Israel’s sins and their unworthiness of God’s favor.
Nicely written. This unknown adversary in simple English means "oppose or opposer"\ I get this meaning because the Lord opposed the path on the road for the donkey,, no words were said. Hence opposer opposing the donkey fits better for all sentences these words are used in.
Again people choose a narrow field, the noun form only, and do not based their meaning also on the verb form.
ad·ver·sar·y - one's opponent in a contest, conflict, or dispute.
The plough went to plough. The famer produced produce. The man went to love her with is love. Such different actions of the same word have to have similar meanings, since the word is the same as letters. And the accuser accuses in a court And the adversary is an adversary to his adversary
The opposer opposes salvation. Salvation is a person. Therefore the opposer is opposing GOD, indirectly yes. ONLY in your theology – do you have a weak God that can be opposed as an enemy ONLY in your theology do you have another creature strong enough to oppose God Diminish God – and empower satan
But your Jewish doctrine forbids you to entertain "gods plural" in heaven. So you reject this idea. The bane elohiym and satan both reported to God as ordered All strong authorities for you
Part of the problem is the idea of god. A creature cannot be a god. Our translators are poor at defining "el" as god. It does not mean god anyhow.
"el" means "strong authority" and this fits all the sentences. Read my link study on this word spiritualsprings.org/ss-1391.htm
But your Jewish docrine forbids multiple gods fighting each other. Does the Jew allow a term for strong authorities fighting and opposing each other over human subjects for their kingdom?
Isa 14:14-16 D This verse is all about as man named Cyrus R Another king tyre poetry metaphor hey? Are you saying this didn’t happen – because it is a metaphor Joshua is only about Joshua too, not a metaphor for Yashua? Are you saying this didn’t happen – because it is a metaphor Moses was just Moses, not a simile of YHWH? Are you saying this didn’t happen – because it is a metaphor Eve was not a simile of the HS? Are you saying this didn’t happen – because it is a metaphor Noah has nothing to say about GOD either? Are you saying this didn’t happen – because it is a metaphor Is there a principle behiind all this?
Evidently your principle = it didn’t really happen BUT – Ezk 28 did really happen as fact and cannot be a metaphor for the King of Tyre You theology is not consistent
D If satan hates God and opposes God – why does he work for God? R He doesn't. But he is limited by GOD
1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. Commentary please - how is this opposing God in any way?
Re 13: Notice the humans worship the dragon, saying who can war with the dragon? I live in Colorado – my neighbors say the same thing about The Denver Broncos
But your Jewish doctrine forbids strong authorities opposing each other? It is apparently obvious that you do not have a firm understand of the ahl as an overview Israel has been opposed at every tune – during every century – every decade
What of 1 Sam 5?
Because the human beings of Israel failed to commit a complete GENOCYDE of the Amorite
Jdg 2:1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you. Jdg 2:2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? Jdg 2:3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.
God allows – permits – leaves in place - the ‘other gods’
D You went on at length how I do not understand this we are just in the grave until the judgment The HS only has our memories in heaven R Sure God has memories of you, and so raises some back to nephesh again. As fristfruits of living forever with Jesus, before the final end of all things. You have many post here demanding there are no men in heaven – we are asleep in the grave – until the end I “opposed” you by saying you have no time for proportional punishment or reward Your answer – you get all that at the end – final judgment Now you have Moses as First Fruits – before the resurrection of Christ
You have a very flexible theology – not consistent No one is first fruits yet –but you have an exception – to your absolutism
D One God – two personalities (if you have to use this man term) I say – One God – two expressions – one of image and one of Spirit R you are forbidden as a Jew to make anything multiple of GOD as you try.
First – you do not understand the Trinity There is only one quarter – not three There are three forms of that quarter Two that we can see – heads or tails One we cannot see because we are only 3D mortal
Second - Here is 99% of our problem trying to have an intelligent conversation about the Jewish faith You – have absolutely no idea what the Jews think or believe – you just make it up in absolutes
What is Jewish Shekinah? What is Jewish
1- Ruach Olam - Eternal Spirit (Heb. 9:14). 2- Ruach HaKo'desh means "the holy Spirit," just like har ha-ko'desh means "the holy mountain," admat ha-ko'desh means "the holy land," ir ha-ko'desh means "the holy city," and so on. Holy Spirit of Promise 3- Ruach HaKodesh ka'sher dibber - Holy Spirit Of Promise (Eph. 1:13). 4- Ruach Adonai - Spirit of Adonai (Acts 5:9). 5- Ruach Elohim - Spirit of God (Matt. 3:16; 12:28; Rom. 8:9, 14; 15:19; 1 Co. 2:11, 14; 3:16; 7:40; 12:3; Eph. 4:30; 1 Jn. 4:2). 6- Ruach he-Chazon - Spirit of Revelation (Eph. 1:17). 7- Ruach Elohim Chayim - Spirit of the Living God (2 Cor. 3:3). 8- Ruach Adonai YHVH - Spirit of the LORD God (Luke 4:18; cp. Isa. 61:1). 9- Ruach Ha-Mashiach - Spirit of the Messiah (Rom. 8:9). 10- Ruach HaEmet - Spirit of Truth (John 15:26). 11- Ruach Ha-Chokhmah - Spirit of Wisdom (Eph. 1:17). 12- Ruach Yeshua - Spirit of Yeshua/Jesus (Acts 16:7). 13- Ruach Yeshua Meshicheinu - Spirit of Yeshua our Messiah (Phil. 1:19). 14- Ruach Adonai - Spirit of Adonai; breath of the LORD (Acts 5:9).
What about HaShem – El Elyon, "Most High El", El Shaddai, "El of Shaddai", El `Olam "Everlasting El", El Hai, "Living El", El Ro'i "El my Shepherd", and El Gibbor "El of Strength"
Do the Jews have multiple authorities – DUH Do you have 14-25 gods in your family – or are there just many names for the different aspects of God
And your family Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, Which of the earthly creatures are divine?
Either the One True Creator is the Father of everything Or His whole family includes earthly beings – in your divine poly-theistic god-head
Hence new wine in new wine skins. Wine remains the same, only in new settings. Except Christendom demand that everything Jewish is in error Ellen White even says – the Jews do matter anymore – all that prophesy written about them in future tense – is all spiritually Christian – not Jewish at all You say it – but you do not believe it = according to you all theology changed into a two god system
D You claim that God and Christ are two different beings R yes - Part of the problem is the idea of god. A creature cannot be a god. I am sorry to hear you say this – Jesus Christ was not a prophet Unitarian Christians say this and Islam says this – I did not know SDA preaches this also Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one. – translate it anyway you want
No man is a worthy sacrifice If Christ was not God incarnate His sacrifice means nothing
D You claim that Christ and the HS are two different beings R yes - Part of the problem is the idea of god. A creature cannot be a god. I am sorry to hear you say this – Jesus Christ was not a prophet Unitarian Christians say this and Islam says this – I did not know SDA preaches this also
Part of the problem is the idea of god. A creature cannot be a god. No man is a worthy sacrifice If Christ was not God incarnate His sacrifice means nothing
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Post by Dillon on Aug 24, 2020 9:51:47 GMT -5
Jesus Christ is God on earth
Php 2:6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, Php 2:7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Tit 2:14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a people for his own possession, zealous of good works.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Joh 8:12 Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life. Joh 8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest witness of thyself; thy witness is not true. Joh 8:14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Even if I bear witness of myself, my witness is true; for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye know not whence I come, or whither I go. Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. Joh 8:16 Yea and if I judge, my judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. Joh 8:17 Yea and in your law it is written, that the witness of two men is true. Joh 8:18 I am he that beareth witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Joh 8:19 They said therefore unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye know neither me, nor my Father: if ye knew me, ye would know my Father also.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye would have known my Father also: from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 12:44 And Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. Joh 12:45 And he that beholdeth me beholdeth him that sent me.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father? Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works.
Mar 9:37 Whosoever shall receive one of such little children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever receiveth me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not.
Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; Col 1:16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; Col 1:17 and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.
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Post by Dave on Aug 24, 2020 12:58:49 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2020 14:30:29 GMT -5
D And the adversary is an adversary to his adversary R nice, Nu 22:22 the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. (KJV)
Ok it fits.
ANd the verb forms of this word?
Ps 109:29 Let mine adversaries <satan> be clothed <labash> with shame k@limmah,
OK nice so far
Zech 3: 1 and Satan <satan> standing <`amad> at his right hand <yamiyn> to resist <satan> him. (KJV)
Oops a different English word.
and the Adversary <satan> standing <`amad> at his right hand <yamiyn> to (be an) adversary <satan> (to) him.
(have to add words to help here)
Does this English word convey the best picture of whats going on for all sentences?
Mt 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Adversary: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Lu 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Adversary as lightning fall from heaven.
2Co 2:11 Lest Adversary should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
Maybe this English fits OK, but is it a simple word? Its meaning?
"one's opponent in a contest, conflict, or dispute." From Google dictionary "one's opponent in a contest" is this the meaning, a contest,
not an enemy wanting you dead, just a friendly person who is your opponent?
D ONLY in your theology do you have another creature strong enough to oppose God R Can a person in love, have a relationship, than break that relationship? Is such a thing allowed in Jewish thinking?
Can even angels be allowed to do this? Don't we call this idea to sin? A naughty rebellious child seems strong against a parent, doesn't it? But no real challenge to a parent.
What can a parent do, banish the child from their home. How else do good parents deal with naughty children?
D Evidently your principle = it didn’t really happen BUT – Ezk 28 did really happen as fact and cannot be a metaphor for the King of Tyre You theology is not consistent
R Poetry pictures are just that, similes about things. So yes poetry pictures do help us, but you ignore exploring them, where as I don't. My theology is consistent.
What do good parents do with naughty children?
Some parents have children threaten to kill them while asleep in bed?
What do you do with such children?
You do not even have a theology for this idea do you?
A child becomes more powerful than a peacful weak parent?
But the parent created the child, but the child no longer obeys the parent. The child adversary so of obeys the divine parent in heavenly meets, because it he doesn't the divine parent could end his living immediately. So divine parents have advantage over earthly parents with wicked child adversaries. But your theology has no adversaries ? no wicked childen to bring into line? such children do not sin anyhow, they are born and made that way, and always obey the divine parents?
So can today's parents allow rebellious children do they same, they were created and born that way, so me, the parent, just allow this adversary child to be with me as a parent/child experience? How many such parents do this every day.... no discipline, no banishment, just put up with the wicked child?
Is God's parental love so weak? I hardly think so. We have models on earth as similes of rebellion in heaven, why don't you embrace this idea?
D 1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. Commentary please - how is this opposing God in any way?
R Suppose a rebellious child go to your accountant and asks him to value all the assets you have, to see how much money his rich Dad owns, so He can have the glory later on. What is this about?
Child is making Him the authority over Israel's strength, not GOD
"creatures do not become sources of power." this is violates power command number 3
Human numbers cause victory, not GOD
"creature numbers do not win battles", only God's covering does, this violates number 2
Pride, I am strong because I lead, God doesn't lead, I do.
"creatures must never assume lead in relationships" God leads, not us, this violate number 1
The first three of the ten comandments are violated.
The fourth commandment is about sharing the glory of power appropriately. Not selfishly gaining glory for self.
O look at this big army of mine?
O look at this lovely garden of flowers I have made?
You do not make gardens grow, or armies grow, only GOD makes things grow. Give him the credit.
So it also violates the 4th commandment, remember your Grower, who makes all things grow.
D God allows – permits – leaves in place - the ‘other gods’ R hang on, your theology does not allow multiple other gods, opposing the God in heaven?
D You have many post here demanding there are no men in heaven – we are asleep in the grave – until the end R I demand no such thing, sorry if I mislead you. Most sleep in grave, some were raised in their nephesh. Some walked up to heaven in their nephesh.
D Now you have Moses as First Fruits – before the resurrection of Christ Y correct, anything wrong with that?
Adam was saved from hell, before Jesus paid the penalty for this salvation process. So was Abram, saved on the basis of a promise.
And some walked into heaven, like Enoch, all based on a promise. Jesus had no ded for their sins yet. First fruits, anything wrong with that?
D What is Jewish Shekinah? R wow, so why doesn't the Jew see this as multiple god?
I see the Shekinah as the glow of the Shadday around the throne of YHWH.
Or do Jews make the glow a spiritual glow of the YHWH only, so only see one authority?
D Do the Jews have multiple authorities – DUH R wow, so why can't YHWH, SHadday and ELoah, be a divine family?
Is this so hard to a Jew who already see multiple aithorities?
D Do you have 14-25 gods in your family – or are there just many names for the different aspects of God R a Family by definition consists of "provider, responder and collector" a minimum of three only.
Such a notion can be demonstrated by energy with needing matter, time or space. You showed me this using your quarks and quantum pictures nicely.
D Either the One True Creator is the Father of everything Or His whole family includes earthly beings – in your divine poly-theistic god-head
R why must you insist "divine poly-theistic god-head", a battery has a provider cathode, and responder anode and a colective solution, why is this seem as a divine electrical poly-theistic battery? Why is it so hard to view such complex things with complexity?
I see G_D as a system of Power (singular). You do not get three electrical powers for a battery, you get only one source of power, but a force runs at speed of light from + provider to - responder, and the collector allows a electron package to move slowly from - responder to + provider in the opposite direction. The whole communty of quantum is required to get a power flow (singular). Is this so hard to fathom?
A working perfect family of humans, is a community arrangement of members working to create something as a whole. Not independent workers, but one family as a whole. Why is there baal Hebrew for husband master, and Adonai for foundation lord, over a family community? Abram was both. He had over 600 people in his household. Some were just baal masters or husbands, but only He, Abram was Adonai. There is noting multple poly theistic about ABram's family. The system functioned as ONE.
D You say it – but you do not believe it = according to you all theology changed into a two god system R I don't have a two god system. A creature is never a god.
A rebellious child is never a parent. Though he grows up to become one later.
We have similes of earth to estimate what GOD is like for a reason.
Ellen White loves Jews:
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/marcus-b-lichtenstein
Marcus B. Lichtenstein (c. 1840-1850? - ?) Marcus Lichtenstein was the first Jewish convert to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Marcus B. Lichtenstein was born in Poland in the 1840s or 1850s, the precise date uncertain. His parents were Orthodox Jews, and he was reared in that tradition. After the “January Uprising” from 1863-1865 and the subsequent unrest, Lichtenstein immigrated from Poland to the United States in the late 1860s.
Ellen G. White took a personal interest in Lichtenstein, talking with him on several occasions and listening to his lectures. She believed that Lichtenstein’s conversion to Christianity was of singular divine providence, and saw great potential in the young man, what with his knowledge of the Hebrew language and culture and access to the Jewish people. On several occasions she commended personal piety, in juxtaposition to some of his coworkers, who at times mocked Lichtenstein’s accent and broken English.
Apparently due to ill treatment and the unserious behavior of some Adventists in Battle Creek, Lichtenstein left the town and the Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1875. Details on the remainder of his life are unknown.
Sources: Battle Creek College Bulletin, 1871-1872;
D I am sorry to hear you say this – Jesus Christ was not a prophet Unitarian Christians say this and Islam says this – I did not know SDA preaches this also
R did I say something wrong?
Jesus is divine, was divinity from eternity. But He is a member of divinity, a collective Being of elohiym power. You can call Jesus "GOD" if you want to. But Scripture calls Jesus the "Son of God".
Muslims say If Jesus was GOD, how could GOD die? That is easy to answer. Change the definition of death.
Isn't death the separating of Divinity? This would stop the breath of living, would it not?
If YHWH is all there is, than this tells you a single Being cannot die, and raise himself. But spearating divinity into a family of divine members, can experience dying, and thus living again.
D I did not know SDA preaches this also R Preach what? Jesus was 100% divine.
D If Christ was not God incarnate His sacrifice means nothing R correct.
The next post quotes: " by DIllion
Php 2:6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, Php 2:7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; Nicely done
I will get back to your response Dave later.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 25, 2020 9:10:03 GMT -5
D ONLY in your theology do you have another creature strong enough to oppose God R Can a person in love, have a relationship, than break that relationship? Is such a thing allowed in Jewish thinking? Can even angels be allowed to do this? Don't we call this idea to sin? And your reasoning is – angels behave just like men Therefore – you can never really trust an angel Men are selfish and greedy – so angels must also be selfish and greedy There is not one man worthy – therefore there are no good angels in heaven If angels conduct themselves just as men
D Evidently your principle = it didn’t really happen BUT – Ezk 28 did really happen as fact and cannot be a metaphor for the King of Tyre Your theology is not consistent R Poetry pictures are just that, similes about things. So yes poetry pictures do help us, but you ignore exploring them, where as I don't. So just how much of the Bible is true for you – or is all just a metaphor There was no Adam and Eve – they are just a metaphor for the first humans? Did the Exodus really happen? Did Jesus really exist? Was the cross and resurrection a metaphoric story that never actus ally took place
Is this why you need to live always in the metaphor and overlook the facts writtenWhat do good parents do with naughty children? What do you do with such children? You do not even have a theology for this idea do you? DUH – it is called the Prodigal SonA child becomes more powerful than a peaceful weak parent? Satan is not more powerful than God – please stop saying itD 1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. Commentary please - how is this opposing God in any way? R Suppose a rebellious child go to your accountant and asks him to value all the assets you have, to see how much money his rich Dad owns, so He can have the glory later on. What is this about? Child is making Him the authority over Israel's strength, not GOD "creatures do not become sources of power." this is violates power command number 3 Human numbers cause victory, not GOD "creature numbers do not win battles", only God's covering does, this violates number 2 Pride, I am strong because I lead, God doesn't lead, I do. "creatures must never assume lead in relationships" God leads, not us, this violate number 1 The first three of the ten comandments are violated. The fourth commandment is about sharing the glory of power appropriately. Not selfishly gaining glory for self. So it also violates the 4th commandment, remember your Grower, who makes all things grow. 1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. 2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. So God – violates 4 of His own commandments? You say this is not allowed by you – God cannot – are your terms This was not a trick – we have discussed these two verses before But you deny that satan works for God – satan always has to oppose God Yet – there are exceptions to you absolutism Not consistentD God allows – permits – leaves in place - the ‘other gods’ R hang on, your theology does not allow multiple other gods, opposing the God in heaven? I quoted the scripture to you – Judges 2:1-3 Is scripture in error – scripture cannot be trusted – it is a metaphor and means something else
D You have many post here demanding there are no men in heaven – we are asleep in the grave – until the end R I demand no such thing, sorry if I mislead you. Most sleep in grave, some were raised in their nephesh. Some walked up to heaven in their nephesh. OH – now it is only most of us just sleep in the grave So some are judged sooner than other?
D What is Jewish Shekinah? R wow, so why doesn't the Jew see this as multiple god? Wow yourself – you directly refused to answer my question of twinsYou have a masculine side and a feminine side – does this make you two individuals – Robert and Roberta? Wow – why don’t you see yourself as multiple people?I see the Shekinah as the glow of the Shadday around the throne of YHWH. Or do Jews make the glow a spiritual glow of the YHWH only, so only see one authority? The Shekinah is the female aspect of God – the aspect that can come and mingle with the people – the HS – omnipresent – the Spirit of God Are you and your spirit two different people – OH – you have no spirit - D Do the Jews have multiple authorities – DUH R wow, so why can't YHWH, SHadday and ELoah, be a divine family? Because they are only one being Why can’t your masculine side and your feminine side be a family of different people
Is this so hard to a Jew who already see multiple aithorities? Why is it so hard for you?D Do you have 14-25 gods in your family – or are there just many names for the different aspects of God R a Family by definition consists of "provider, responder and collector" a minimum of three only. I see – so if ruwach and Ruach HaKo'desh are two different beings So every name for God and the Holy Spirit must also mean different individuals And again I ask – how many gods do you have in your pantheonD Either the One True Creator is the Father of everything Or His whole family includes earthly beings – in your divine poly-theistic god-head R why must you insist "divine poly-theistic god-head", a battery has a provider cathode, and responder anode and a colective solution, why is this seem as a divine electrical poly-theistic battery? Why is it so hard to view such complex things with complexity? I see – it is easier if we have a pantheon of different gods for every wordD You say it – but you do not believe it = according to you all theology changed into a two god system R I don't have a two god system. A creature is never a god. A two opposing authority system is different than a two god system – How?Dose an ant oppose an elephant? Can an ant make an elephant change direction? No – the comparison is rediculas To oppose an elephant you must have something as big and as powerful as the elephant Satan is ant - serving the Lord – no more To make satan any more than what he is – is to elevate him – worship him – give him honor and prestige he does not deserve www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/marcus-b-lichtensteinMarcus Lichtenstein was the first Jewish convert to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Sources: Battle Creek College Bulletin, 1871-1872; worldhijabday.com/journey-7th-day-eventist-islam/My journey from 7th day Adventist to Islam“… I knew I had found the truth. Alhumdulillah! Allahu Akbar!”Source: World Hijab Day Organization, Inc. A NonProfit Organization, September 22, 2014 D I am sorry to hear you say this – Jesus Christ was not a prophet Unitarian Christians say this and Islam says this – I did not know SDA preaches this also R did I say something wrong? What you said is anti-Christian
Jesus is divine, was divinity from eternity. But He is a member of divinity, a collective Being of elohiym power. You can call Jesus "GOD" if you want to. YES! I WANT TOBut Scripture calls Jesus the "Son of God". And that is right there in your pantheon of many named gods – are we up to 30 now?Muslims say If Jesus was GOD, how could GOD die? That is easy to answer. Change the definition of death. Change the definition – what a bunch of crap RobertJesus Christ came for all mankind the genius and the stupid The stupid do not have to play word games to reach an understanding Scripture just means what it means – why must you always twist scripture into a metaphor only you can understandIsn't death the separating of Divinity? This would stop the breath of living, would it not? If YHWH is all there is, than this tells you a single Being cannot die, and raise himself. But spearating divinity into a family of divine members, can experience dying, and thus living again. Multiple gods – at least 30 by your reasoning - every name = a different beingD I did not know SDA preaches this also R Preach what? Jesus was 100% divine. Preaches that Jesus is not God the Creator – but a different lesser god Who created the heavens and earth – God or Christ? Ahl says God – agl says Christ Is this two Creators?D If Christ was not God incarnate His sacrifice means nothing R correct. Out of one side of your mouth you say – correct Then out of the other side of your mouth you say – If YHWH is all there is, than this tells you a single Being cannot die, and raise himself.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 14:23:52 GMT -5
D The Shekinah is the female aspect of God – the aspect that can come and mingle with the people – the HS – omnipresent – the Spirit of God R Oh I see, so Elohiym has a masculine and feminine side, two expressions but one being.
So the HS is just a force or expression of the Father? D Because they are only one being Why can’t your masculine side and your feminine side be a family of different people R Does this include the Son as well, a masculine expression of the Father? Hence one being also?
D To oppose an elephant you must have something as big and as powerful as the elephant Satan is ant - serving the Lord – no more To make satan any more than what he is – is to elevate him – worship him – give him honor and prestige he does not deserve R Yes I get your point here.
D Change the definition – what a bunch of crap Robert Jesus Christ came for all mankind the genius and the stupid The stupid do not have to play word games to reach an understanding Scripture just means what it means – why must you always twist scripture into a metaphor only you can understand R OK, so how does YHWH alone die on a cross? Explain the process in infinite detail to me, using the Hebrew torah please?
D Preaches that Jesus is not God the Creator – but a different lesser god Who created the heavens and earth – God or Christ? Ahl says God – agl says Christ Is this two Creators? R One Creator, Jesus, 100% elohiym power, but the Father and HS helped in this creative act.
D Out of one side of your mouth you say – correct Then out of the other side of your mouth you say – If YHWH is all there is, than this tells you a single Being cannot die, and raise himself. R No a single divine power cannot die, whatever that means, and raise himself. You explain how one divinity can do this?
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Post by Dave on Aug 26, 2020 14:50:03 GMT -5
D The Shekinah is the female aspect of God – the aspect that can come and mingle with the people – the HS – omnipresent – the Spirit of God R Oh I see, so Elohiym has a masculine and feminine side, two expressions but one being. So the HS is just a force or expression of the Father?
OK – I really do not understand what your block is – so answer me this question It is an easy answer What is Spirit
You deny spirit – so I would love to hear you answer
D Because they are only one being Why can’t your masculine side and your feminine side be a family of different people R Does this include the Son as well, a masculine expression of the Father? Hence one being also? OK – why can’t you be three different people – Robert, Roberta, and Robby Tell me how this makes you 3 different and individual people.
D Change the definition – what a bunch of crap Robert Jesus Christ came for all mankind the genius and the stupid The stupid do not have to play word games to reach an understanding Scripture just means what it means – why must you always twist scripture into a metaphor only you can understand R OK, so how does YHWH alone die on a cross? Explain the process in infinite detail to me, using the Hebrew torah please?
Robert – you should get to know scripture
Mat 26:42 Again for a second time He went away and prayed, saying, “My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, let Your will be done.”
Joh 10:11 I am the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.
Mat 27:50 And Yeshua cried out again with a loud voice and gave up His spirit.
Joh 19:30 When Yeshua tasted the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.
Luk 23:46 And Yeshua, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I entrust My spirit.’” When He had said this, He breathed His last.
No one took the life of Jesus Christ Jesus Christ gave His life for us
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Ahl says God – agl says Christ Is this two Creators? R One Creator, Jesus, 100% elohiym power, but the Father and HS helped in this creative act. I see – Christ is the One True Creator and God was just His helper But no one here wants to diminish God in any way
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2020 14:41:27 GMT -5
D OK – I really do not understand what your block is – so answer me this question It is an easy answer What is Spirit
You deny spirit – so I would love to hear you answer R spirit is a medium concept
The power of something is carried by something else.
This is the primary understanding of spirit, ie a Hebrew word meaning wind.
This wind is not ordinary wind, as Hebrew has other words for ordinary wind.
This wind is created, and therefore a special wind.
How many humans understand how a medium works.
Most a familar with witch mediums, calling up ghosts of so called dead people, so humans can talk to them via the medium. But people are not familar with science mediums, how things are carried by other things, changing their properties.
Light entering media, has the properties of light changed by that media.
Now humans are compose of matter. Are there any science examples of light entering solid matter and experiencing property changes because of this? If the matter is transparent, this light experiements work well. if light enters walk, it works well, or enters air, the light experiments also work.
What about entering humans?
When light enters humans, can the properties of light change? From previous examples, yes, they must. Science says all matter is the product of star dust, so light has entered all things, including the atoms themselves. Another property of light, is it has duality. When it travels alone, it travels as a particle, when it touches matter, it travels as a wave.
We have glimpses of this property with a member of GOD too, the Shadday a co-eternal being, also functions as a medium, the functional term known as ruwach.
The Shadday allows the power of elohiym to flow through the medium (HS) and thus enter into humans and empower them with living. This is termed in Scripture the "breath of life". Another power of elohiym is love. Love comes as two flavours, ahab and ahabuh. There is another flavour of love, the collective kind children show, which is a mixing of the abah and ahabuh. This flow of love, we can term "character", which is essentially a power of elohiym that flows into humans empowering them with qualities that is like GOD in every sense, making us like GOD, thinking and doing like GOD would do. Some call this by beholding GOD we are changed into His character.
The term "spirit of man" and "spirit of GOD" is an interesting construct of two Hebrew words. The medium of man, has to refer to the carrying of divine power inside the man, by man himself. The medium of GOD, has to refer to the carrying of divine love inside the family, by a divine member.
The way and manner we carry this medium of God's power, ie recorded by GOD, because this is what makes man special and unique as a personality, each character developed by man himself, is man's own unique you, that makes you, a special you.
Do you own this medium? no, a Medium is something carrying something else. One Being alone cannot own mediums. However one Being can use and change the properties flowing from the medium, hence in this sense man is able to use or abuse GOD's power flowing into him, via this medium.
Notice this verse:
Ro 8:16 The Medium itself beareth witness with our medium, that we are the children of God:
Is this a word game, or are we trying to explain a word, using another word that we understand?
Ro 8:16 The ( wind of God ) itself beareth witness with our (wind of man) , that we are the children of God: Is this any better? wind is a medium.
Since wind is a word that describes something carried by something :
Ro 8:16 The HS carrying the power of GOD, itself beareth witness with our power of GOD flowing in us, that we are the children of God:
Does this help better?
D OK – why can’t you be three different people – Robert, Roberta, and Robby Tell me how this makes you 3 different and individual people.
R if you look at Adam and Eve, they were genetic clones but not personality clones. Does this help answer you?
D Robert – you should get to know scripture R I do know Scripture. You say Jesus is an expression of the Father, and the Father died for us, for our sins. One divine Being cannot die? How does one divine Being alone die, and raise Himself?
Muslims debate this all the time. It is proof elohiym is not ONE being.
GOD is immortal, and thus living, so death cannot be the absence of living.... death has to be something else, we have assumed wrong.
Death has to be the absence of GOD in your life.
So if you make elohiym into three members of divinity, than if you separate the members of divinity, you have a death experience, while the divine member is living, whatever that means?
Why else does Ps 22:1 say el, el why are you leaving Yashua?
They leave the son alone, separated and this causes their Son to die.
But His body does not decay? Why not? Because He is living. But his thoughts perish, he died, gave up the medium and thus the divine family separated from their son. A single divine member of GOD cannot die on it's own. Because GOD cannot die. And a single member cannot be separated either, hence you cannot explain what death is by a single divine member?
But you can define death if you have three divine members in a family elohiym power. A battery dies when the components are separated or fouled up.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 27, 2020 18:06:58 GMT -5
R spirit is a medium concept Spirit is a thing not an idea or a concept
This is the primary understanding of spirit, ie a Hebrew word meaning wind. This wind is not ordinary wind, as Hebrew has other words for ordinary wind. This wind is created, and therefore a special wind.
OK a special wind What are its properties? – dose it think and remember – does it desire earthly things Can it stand alone? – by itself – independent from all the other wind around it?
How many humans understand how a medium works. Most a familar with witch mediums, calling up ghosts of so called dead people, so humans can talk to them via the medium. But people are not familar with science mediums, how things are carried by other things, changing their properties. A spiritual medium is not the same medium as the matrix of the universe
Another property of light, is it has duality. When it travels alone, it travels as a particle, when it touches matter, it travels as a wave. You have it backwards – travels as a wave – interacts as a sparticle Just as God traverses the distance via Spirit and interacts as a particle Christ
We have glimpses of this property with a member of GOD too, the Shadday a co-eternal being, also functions as a medium, the functional term known as ruwach. Dissagree the Spirit of God = the Holy Spirit – not two different beings
(a special wind named Robert + (an animal) = Robert the man (a special wind named Dave + (animal) = Dave the man The special Wind named God + (image) = Christ
The difference = our special wind is as a candel flame - compared to the FIRE At a distance - our little candel flames think they can see in the dark But in the presence of the FIRE - our little candel flame seams to dissapear into the furnace We thought we were a flame - but we are just a weak spark the spark within the animal the life within the animal the person within the animal the spirit within the animal the soul within the animal
The Shadday allows the power of elohiym to flow through the medium (HS) and thus enter into humans and empower them with living. This is termed in Scripture the "breath of life". This term is called the electromagnetic spectrum that sustains the all at the subatomic scale - This is the same E that sustains the sun - gravity - electricity - maganatism - strong and weak nuclear forces
This is not the breath of life - because the 'breath of life' was only breathed into man - and man became a liveing being
The 'breath of life' is the union of soul + animal uniquic - special to and only to man
Another power of elohiym is love. Love comes as two flavours, ahab and ahabuh. There is another flavour of love, the collective kind children show, which is a mixing of the abah and ahabuh. This flow of love, we can term "character", which is essentially a power of elohiym that flows into humans empowering them with qualities that is like GOD in every sense, making us like GOD, thinking and doing like GOD would do. Some call this by beholding GOD we are changed into His character.
Then why do your God driven man robots sin? - you refuse to answer You say I do not undertand what you say - we just thinking and doing like GOD would do
ANSWER THE QUESTION Who is this person inside you Since the HS is the power within us – we must be Gods – we cannot be individuals
The term "spirit of man" and "spirit of GOD" is an interesting construct of two Hebrew words. The medium of man, has to refer to the carrying of divine power inside the man, by man himself. ANSWER THE QUESTION Who is this person inside you Since the HS is the power within us – we must be Gods – we cannot be individuals
Do you own this medium? no, a Medium is something carrying something else. One Being alone cannot own mediums. We do not own the ether of the universe – the matrix – the HS It / she / he is the medium in which our wind exist We are not the medium – we are wind existing within the medium
Ro 8:16 The Medium itself beareth witness with our medium, that we are the children of God: You deny our medium – our wind – our spirit Who is our spirit – our wind – is it us or just the HS
Ro 8:16 The ( wind of God ) itself beareth witness with our (wind of man) , that we are the children of God: Is this any better? wind is a medium. We are not the HS – our wind exist within the medium
What is spirit – I still do not know if you think spirit is a thing – an entity – a person God’s person bearith witness with our person
D Robert – you should get to know scripture R I do know Scripture. You say Jesus is an expression of the Father, and the Father died for us, for our sins. One divine Being cannot die? How does one divine Being alone die, and raise Himself? Muslims debate this all the time. It is proof elohiym is not ONE being. Still you do not understand scripture No one killed Jesus – he voluntarily gave up His Spirit This is what scripture says – but you deny the Spirit – all you can see is the man
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