|
Post by Dave on Aug 2, 2020 23:37:16 GMT -5
R Does the immortal soul created by GOD finally die, or does it remain immortal and live forever in hell? You didn't answer my question. After 2 posts even. OK – let me try again – all scripture says = lake of fire = second death Most Christians see this as death of spirit This is what scripture says – I quoted to you – it is all the information I have
If the soul is immortal, how can an immortal soul be extingusihed in the Lake of Fire for being wicked. This is so easy
im·mor·tal = not mortal - living forever; never dying or decaying. "our mortal bodies are inhabited by immortal soul”
You only see the animal – which is mortal You deny the soul – which is of difference substance
If angels are mortal – how long do they live – where were they born
D Jews do not see a Family ELohiym. R yes correct, Jews don't. But a family concept of elohiym has always been there in both OT and NT. See Eph 3:15, 16 So you reference a NT verse and say it is clear in the OT What is your OT verse – that says YHWY + Shekinah + Messiah = a family of 3 gods
D Jews fully accept the duality of God male and female – God the Father and The shekinah R Isn't this a family concept? I have a male side and a female side to my nature – does this make me twins?
D No one knew His name before His birth R Nobody knows the name of G_D either. How funny – the Assemblies of Yahweh. – the Sacred names Movement – is 100% SDA
D You can talk about it as if they should have all left that behind R I am a spiritual Jew, and I support GOD by guarding all 7000 of those prayer promises of power. Not just 613, but many more. Any one who says we don't have to follow prayer promises of power, is saying we don't have to support GOD...that's silly...support means that. Please answer the question The Jews should have all stopped being Jewish and started Catholicism as far back as Moses What about Israel mission to the world – is scripture incorrect?
Calling Peter an opposer is wrong, Peter was listening to a sinning angel inside him. Jesus said it – I do not have the authority to correct Him
R Since angel exist, your Gnostic statement is wrong, God did not create angels doing RA intentionally. These are sinning angels sinning on purpose to stop mankind choosing GOD, since the sinning angels waant their world, their RA world to exist forever. (Scripture for what they want please) So God in not capable of making anything perfect – even If God meant to make it perfect Because you satan proved to be imperfect according to you But then you say God cannot create imperfect It is all mythology God made everything perfect – according to God’s Will God made both the tov and the ra – and the weicked
Therefore all of the wicked ra = must be all part of God’s tov Man is just too small to see the extent and purpose of God’s plan
D this second god’s will overrides God’s will R NO, God is fully allowing His love to prevail despite the opposing nature of sin So – the ra is 100% God’s Will – thank you
R God would not create an oposing elohiym intentionally. D SEE – you must have a second creator – a second god - to do your dirty work R God set up a RA world to allow NON-RA worlds to watch sinning in real time. So either does God do it intentionally (God’s Will) – or is it all a big mistake
God is your base for RA, and therefore designed sin to come into being. I say NO. God never designed sin to come into being. OK – I agree God created everything for him – scripture says even ra and the wicked You say – there was another (a second creator) responsible
D I say – God has a staff for that – called bad-guy angels And everything they do – they do to facilitate God’s plan
R bad guy angels are sinners and sinning causing RA. They are at war with GOD and Oppose GOD. And yet everything they do fall perfectly within God’s plan – just as if He was in control the whole time
GOD is saying that the Opposer moved God against Job, to destroy Job witout cause. So who is the authority here? God or the Opposer? God is. Correct – God = Judge and satan is the prosecutor
When the Opposer kills Job's sons and daughters, who does the killing? God or the Opposer? The opposer does. The archon cannot kill you directly – not allowed
Job 1:13 And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: Job 1:14 And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them: Job 1:15 And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
The archon whispered in other mend ears and suggest the deed But men – did the killing
This Job story allows us to see the war in heaven continues over mankind. But it all takes place on earth to men In the heaven side of this story The archon + stan reported to God when summoned God sent satan on a mission with strict limits And satan did all the God asked
Why would satan do what God asks – and respect God limits – if he opposes God Just absolutely makes no sense – I hate and and oppose you but I‘ll obey and respect
D Again – I ask for scripture to support your – they want to live forever mythology R Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:16 (LXX) οἱ ἰδόντες σε θαυμάσουσιν ἐπὶ σοὶ καὶ ἐροῦσιν Οὗτος ὁ ἄνθρωπος ὁ παροξύνων τὴν γῆν, σείων βασιλεῖς;
Isa 14:16 (KJV) They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Isa 14 has nothing to do with your satan and the star - is just a star called venus
R The chief angel was the first sinning creature. D The Chief Archon was the first creature to miss - agreed
But you have sin designed intentionally by GOD...this cannot be Sin is missing GOD as a defintion. Cannot be designed by GOD. You go and tell God what He is allowed to do or not do Not my job
R So the first mitzvah has no other opposing elohiym powers than? D Than the archon R No. You have GOD creating RA creatures intentionally... so this is weird D That is their function R God cannot design sinning functions in creatures. You go and tell God what He is allowed to do or not do Not my job
D Does God make both tov and ra – yes R God make both tov and ra – yes, but only in a RA world D Does God make the wicked for the end of days – yes R Does God make the wicked for the end of days – yes D Does God test His people – yes R Does God test His people – yes but only in a RA world D Does God discipline His people – yes R Does God discipline His people – yes, but only in a RA world When the NON-RA world is set up once again, there is no more sin, or darkness, or shadows, or friction, or RA of any kind.
I am discussing reality – you are discussing the perfect world we hope for
R God never created animals with such RA behaviours, until man, a creature, SINNED. Now we are back to more creative event after God rested I didn’t realize that SDA theology is so skewed from the rest of Christianity
God looked over His creation and said Ge 1:31 ¶ And God <'elohiym> saw <ra'ah> every thing that <'aher> he had made <`asah>, and, behold, it was very <m@`od> good <towb>. Nothing dysfunctional here....
Then choshek = a function of tov
D Is God unfair – is God a dictator – YES D Why are the rules different for GOD – then for man R you worship a different god to me, My GOD is LOVE. and your God loves Eve so much she is eternally damned to death for one infraction
D Then – by the Left Hand – (in a different way) The First Archon was created The First Archon’s first thought and expression – missed God as the creator – correct R so you have GOD creating SIN in an angel...
God either did it on purpose or mistake I say it was on purpose – all thing were created by him – for him
You said God does it by mistake – God meant to make satan perfect – God tried to make satan perfect – God couldn’t make satan perfect Because satan = imperfect God made satan – on purpose or by mistake
R so you base your salvation experience unpon something you don't really know or can prove from Scripture? DUH – I do not base my salvation experience on the archon I hang them up on a pole and expose them for who they are Now exposed – their attacks become more obvious Drive my road at night with the light off and you will hit every pot hole Turn the lights back on – and you can see the archon and drive around them
Isa 14:27 Who is this YHWH as a commander of an army? It is Jesus, also known as Michael, who is like GOD, notice His army of angels Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: NO- Assyri
Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Both are opposers opposing each other. Now the angel Michael = satan
D If we kill the Indian or the Black man- we will be prevent more pagans to be born White Christian should kill the Black and the Indian out of Love R only GOD can make this decision, since God is living. We do have different God’s My God says – do not wound My God says – remember and preach – share the Good News
Question – doesn’t God Kill directly? How few would have spared Sodom? 5 How many were there? 4 how straight were there? not really straight Lot's wife looked back, husband was sinner. So maybe 2?? And your point = what? Does God kill directly?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 13:42:16 GMT -5
R Does the immortal soul created by GOD finally die, or does it remain immortal and live forever in hell? D Most Christians see this as death of spirit This is what scripture says – I quoted to you – it is all the information I have R If the soul is immortal, how can an immortal soul be extingusihed in the Lake of Fire for being wicked. D This is so easy You only see the animal – which is mortal You deny the soul – which is of difference substance
R So your saying the immortal wicked soul lives forever somewhere, but its wicked body is no more, in the lake of fire? Does this make sense? You split the human essence into two parts...
I do also, it's called relationship, the human part is whole, the divine part is also whole.
The two whole parts are partnered together and the human becomes a living relationship.
You have asked for more details how this works, but the bottom line is I don't know.
God supplies the "breath of living" and humans as a whole live.
There is no body part and no spirit part as you claim. The word nephesh is a whole term. The word ruwach is the HS. Both Beings become unified and this makes the human whole living.
When that one verse says the HS says to the HS we are children of GOD, this suggests to me something about us is recorded by GOD, ie book of remembrance, book of life, etc... thus our character development with GOD is recorded....that's how I see it.
AN immortal soul is a lie from sinning angels.
D If angels are mortal – how long do they live – where were they born R Scripture does answer that question.
D What is your OT verse – that says YHWY + Shekinah + Messiah = a family of 3 gods R Here
Job 40:1 ¶ Moreover the LORD (Yasha-YHWH) answered Job, and said, 2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty (shadday) instruct him? he that reproveth God (eloah) , let him answer it. Not sure why Shadday is written as "him" rather it should be "her", but in the presence of other "males", ie YHWH and Eloah, the masculine in written. Hence a Hebrew rule?
ANother here
Pr 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind (HS) in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name (Father), and what is his son's name (Yasha) , if thou canst tell? 5 Every word (Imrah - Yasha personified) of God (eloah- Father) is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
R Isn't this a family concept? D I have a male side and a female side to my nature – does this make me twins R Yes both genders have both kinds of love inside them, this causes a blending of love internally.
But gender males have more maleness-love than femaleness-love, hence function with ahab And gender females have more femaleness-love than maleness-love and hence fujnction with ahabuh. You can see this affect with GOD too. Notice in Eden GOD created one personality, Adam and built the Eve out from the Adam. However they are different, not 1 person, but 1 being with 2 persons. You do not understand the Hebrew word echad means "1 of many", the idea of unified parts as a whole. There is a Hebrew word for "1 of 1", this is monogenes, my one and only Son. Maybe ashtey, but its use became lost over time?
R When the Opposer kills Job's sons and daughters, who does the killing? God or the Opposer? The opposer does. D The archon cannot kill you directly – not allowed R Are you saying GOD allowed Job's family to die, He has a department for that? SO GOD can give salvation and also allow you to die prematurely... always praise GOD.
D The archon whispered in other mend ears and suggest the deed But men – did the killing R I see.
D Isa 14:16 (KJV) They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Isa 14 has nothing to do with your satan and the star - is just a star called venus
R The verse is about Isa 14:4 ¶ That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon The man here is a king of Babylon.
Its also a proverb
Nm) ( M-ShL) — Comparison: Often a parable or proverb as a story of comparisons. [freq. 39] |kjv: proverb, parable, byword, like| {str: 4912} dm) ( M- Jeff Benner lexicon
That means this man is a symbolic of another Being.
Like Tyre, remember?
The star is a symbol as well.
You follow your view, your welcome to it.
R God cannot design sinning functions in creatures. D You go and tell God what He is allowed to do or not do Not my job R well we have Scripture, even GOD has to obey His own teachings. But your welcome to your view...
D I am discussing reality – you are discussing the perfect world we hope for R If GOD can create a perfect Non-RA world, why did he create a RA world with sinning creatures in it? Your model makes no consistent sense
D God meant to make satan perfect – God tried to make satan perfect – God couldn’t make satan perfect Because satan = imperfect God made satan – on purpose or by mistake R well that your view, its not mine, your welcome to it
At last our views are explored and very clear to each other. Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 3, 2020 23:29:01 GMT -5
R If the soul is immortal, how can an immortal soul be extingusihed in the Lake of Fire for being wicked. D This is so easy You only see the animal – which is mortal You deny the soul – which is of difference substance R So your saying the immortal wicked soul lives forever somewhere, but its wicked body is no more, in the lake of fire? Does this make sense? You split the human essence into two parts...
Why must you twist everything to means something different
Man is a duality - spirit + animal spirit is heaaenly in origin animal is dust of the ground
animal is just a vehicle to carry oround our soul
Soul / spirit = not mortal (Mind/Body) = mortal – meaning will experience mortal death (no more or less) If you are mortal – you are made of dust and will return to dust = mortal
Immortal = not experiencing a mortal death (no more or less)
The angel Michael – or Gab-briel – are not made of dust from planet earth They are not – mortal – they are notmortal = immortal – DUH
Soul was created in heaven – it is not mortal – it is not made of dust It is not created to die – it commits suicide – while on earth – why Because the soul is the home of yester tov and it resides within man and animal man is also born with yester ra – as an instinctive need for survival
Perhaps this is why man is special Angels are created with a singular nature – perspective Man – is a duality God breathed into man his soul and man became a living being one part yester tov + one part yester ra
Soul comes from heaven – where it was in full awareness – therefore it is the home of yester tov (Mind/Body) comes from the dust – it has animal instinct – home of yester ra
This is our inner struggle – deny self and listen to our soul
Soul is spirit – and when we are in communion with the HS - it is spirit to spirit Therefore the need to pray in the spirit
This communion = of spirit is our relationship to God = is our relationship to HS and to Christ Communion can be a partnership – I can see that – but only for the Born Again
Otherwise – you have the HS guiding people to sin – as you say rape and murder Because we are all just and animal -administered / partnered- with the HS to be alive
There is a lot of life – not partnered to God in a spirit to spirit relationship Most human-beings are not
I do also, it's called relationship, the human part is whole, the divine part is also whole. The two whole parts are partnered together and the human becomes a living relationship. Perhaps if you are Born again Otherwise you HS is responsible for a whole lot of sin and ra Because a whole lot of people do sin and ra
You have asked for more details how this works, but the bottom line is I don't know. That is extremely obvious You have been taught to deny the soul – deny your own spirit You are just an animal - driven around by the HS
God supplies the "breath of living" and humans as a whole live. And man becomes a living being – but you deny this
There is no body part and no spirit part as you claim. See – you deny the spirit
When that one verse says the HS says to the HS we are children of GOD, this suggests to me something about us is recorded by GOD, ie book of remembrance, book of life, etc... thus our character development with GOD is recorded....that's how I see it.
There you go – you must twist it to mean something else We are the children of God – a part of his family you say He has He is our Father – He is our Creator – there is no chance we did not come from Him
AN immortal soul is a lie from sinning angels. How can you have a spiritual relationship if you deny your own spirit?
D If angels are mortal – how long do they live – where were they born R Scripture does answer that question. So –you believe that angels grow old and die – just like men – but you dent anthropomorphizing the heavens
D What is your OT verse – that says YHWY + Shekinah + Messiah = a family of 3 gods R Here Job 40:1 Trinity Pr 30:4 Trinity If Christ = the Son of God Why don’t you call the HS the daughter of God? Answer God = spirit – that we cannot imagine / comprehend - soul HS = spirit of God - that we can experience Christ – is 100% God, in an image – a step down from pure spirit Why would Christ be this – so man can experience God in person
R Isn't this a family concept? It is not three individual gods Only One God – two ways to experience Him – as Spirit or as Christ
D I have a male side and a female side to my nature – does this make me twins R Yes both genders have both kinds of love inside them, this causes a blending of love internally. And your answer is what? I am a marriage – a family – of male and female - Am I twins – two separated Daves – Dave and Dava - that can act independent of the other
R When the Opposer kills Job's sons and daughters, who does the killing? God or the Opposer? The opposer does. D The archon cannot kill you directly – not allowed R Are you saying GOD allowed Job's family to die, He has a department for that? Are you suggesting God didn’t allow it – God stopped it and scripture is lieing about their deaths SO GOD can give salvation and also allow you to die prematurely... always praise GOD.
God can give pardon to anyone He chooses Just how many people throughout history has God allowed to die – prematutlly? Do you know the story of Uriah?
D The archon whispered in other mend ears and suggested the deed But men – did the killing R I see. You doubt this as well - What does scripture say?
Isa 14 is about a man Its also a proverb That means this man is a symbolic of another Being. Agreed – many men throughout history have thought more of themselves than God
R God cannot design sinning functions in creatures. D You go and tell God what He is allowed to do or not do Not my job R well we have Scripture, even GOD has to obey His own teachings.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Col 1:16 John 1:3
D I am discussing reality – you are discussing the perfect world we hope for R If GOD can create a perfect Non-RA world, IF – you doubt R If GOD can create a perfect Non-RA world, why did he create a RA world with sinning creatures in it? Your model makes no consistent sense Question - are we living in a tov only ra free world? You answer – must be no – or you are in even bigger denial
Question - So why did God make our world as it is? Gnostic answer – It is God’s plan – God is in control Question – Why did God do it Gnostic Answer – to set the stage for the contest
Question - So why did God make our world as it is? The Catholic Answer – God didn’t make this world like this God made it all perfect – all tov – Then not one of God’s perfect angels – but a full 3rd of all the angels - chose to be imperfect (is this an oxymoron) 1- Catholic God – unable to create what he wants 2- Catholic God’s Will is weak and can be reversed 3- Catholic God has an opposer that hates God Then this new imperfect angels takes control of God Plan -= powerful enough to make this world as it is Question – Why did God do it Catholic Answer – God didn’t mean to do it – creation got away from God – God lost control The creation of satan was a mistake by God Now God is on the defense
Question - So why did God make our world as it is? Jewish answer – It is God’s plan – so man can witness God to the world Question – Why did God do it Jewish Answer – so man can witness to the world
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 13:35:49 GMT -5
Greetings Dave I will try an approach you have not answered before God creates a perfect relationship in a perfect world.What would a perfect relationship look like? You have man designed with a immortal soul of TOV embedded into a dusty body of RA.... is this your idea of a perfect relationship in a perfect world? Stick with me on this perfect world idea, before we get back to reality with our current world of RA, which I believe came about from Adam's sin. What would a perfect relationship look like? With your prefect world, you cannot create a perfect relationship because it has no choices in it, the man already has both TOV and RA embedded in him (I read your post saying this D Man – is a duality God breathed into man his soul and man became a living being one part yester tov + one part yester raR I would not term this concept the creation of a perfect relationship. This is the creation of an imperfect relationship. Man - is duality of relationship, the immortal part partnered to the divine part - mankind and His character to GOD and His character. There is no hint of RA anywhere in its creation. A perfect relationship has only TOV in it. However there is a risk factor that the creature created this way may choose another option, that floods into the universe only when the perfect relationship is found missing. Humans term this sinning, and the fruit of things missing is termed RA. Now you explain to me how your model of a perfect creation, has both TOV and RA in the creative aspects of man? It's not by definition perfect. You also remove free will to choose? Choose what? Mankind has already both choices running from creation. Or are you saying that RA wasn't running in Adam before He sinned, but started running after He sinned? Why is GOD creating a body from dust termed RA by you? It says God made mankind from the ground, and breathed into him the "breath of living". At a subatomic level you agree the HS empowers mankind to live, but you also say mankind has some immortal spirit that makes you, you. Well if that is true, why doesn't the Hebrew have a separate word for this? Why doesn't Scripture talk about this? Where is your proof from the Books of Moses, start here first. The only words used in "breath of life" is "ordinary breathing through nose" and "ruwach" a term meaning a "special wind" or the "HS functioning as wind". Ge 6:3 ¶ And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. If the spirit is immortal and different to man, why does spirit no longer strive with man? This verse suggests to me GOD strains to keep mankind living because of the sinning poor health we do, eating poorly is also a sin. Hence the relationship to GOD is strained, and our partnership with living becomes less, hence we live less, and die early in age. Angels have different makeup to man, so age and decay more slowly than we do, I am assuming the sinning angels are also prone to dying and death, like humans do, but Scripture is silent with many details. However Scripture does have angels eating food like humans do? Ge 41:38 And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is? In this context, the term " Spirit of God" must refer to Joseph relationship to GOD, and his character development with GOD.
Le 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: Here is a different Hebrew word. There is no room for familiar spirits. Meaning characters from sinning powers are not allowed in Scripture. Nu 27:18 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him; Finally here, Moses lays his hand upon Yashua, a type of the Yashua in heaven. A man in the spirit.... meaning He has a perfect relationship to GOD and His character. Where does the scrolls of Moses talk about your idea Dave? It doesn't. Notice these wicked characters with wicked powers: Le 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God. These powers of "owb" must oppose GOD, since man is commanded to have nothing to do with them. Le 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. But you just said GOD created mankind of TOV and RA, but here it says the nephesh is NOT to go whoring after RA owb. Have nothing to do with RA powers. De 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. 13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. SO where is the idea of owb and ruwach both inside the man? None God created mankind from dust and powered man from GOD. The spirit of man is to develop the spirit of GOD, NOT the spirits of Owb. Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? Where does the Owb powers come from? From the dead. Your souls that you see, are wandering around. Catholics is full of this idea. They pray to the dead saints for their Owb powers. This is wrong according to the Scrolls of Moses. Isa 19:3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards. 4 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. Yet much of your Gnostic writings come from the Owb of Egypt. Not the ruwach of Egypt. So GOD hands you over to them. A cruel strong authority. So Dave begin with the Scrolls of Moses, where does the teachings teach of some immortal concept of man, that is owned by man. Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 5, 2020 10:25:04 GMT -5
I will try an approach you have not answered before God creates a perfect relationship in a perfect world. What would a perfect relationship look like? Heaven – man with God in full awareness As it was before conception and as it will be when we return to God You have man designed with a immortal soul of TOV embedded into a dusty body of RA.... is this your idea of a perfect relationship in a perfect world? 1- NO – perfect relationship was spirit to spirit – and will be spirit to spirit 2- during this souljourn – our ‘perfect’ relationship is clouded by the animal we occupy We are spirit + animal while corporeal – this is the contest – soul vrs self – God vrs world POINT – we do not live in a perfect world You deal in fantasy – you talk as if we are already in the New Heaven and New Earth We are not there yet – it is not our time yet – this is the age / aion of the Gentile And the ‘sar’ of earth is a powerful seductress to ‘self’Stick with me on this perfect world idea, before we get back to reality with our current world of RA, which I believe came about from Adam's sin. You blame everything on your satan god – the father of all bad stuff Yet blame the current state of the entire world on a manWhat would a perfect relationship look like?Heaven – man with God in full awareness As it was before conception and as it will be when we return to GodWith your prefect world, you cannot create a perfect relationship because it has no choices in it, the man already has both TOV and RA embedded in him (I read your post saying this HMMM – man has no choices – because – the choice between tov and ra is in manD Man – is a duality God breathed into man his soul and man became a living being one part yester tov + one part yester ra
R I would not term this concept the creation of a perfect relationship. This is the creation of an imperfect relationship.YES! – it is hard being soul trapped within an animal that is instinctively greedy and rationalizes that all morality is situationalMan - is duality of relationship, the immortal part partnered to the divine part - mankind and His character to GOD and His character. There is no hint of RA anywhere in its creation.Here you go againSatan was made perfect – but he was imperfect Man was made perfect – but was imperfect You cannot have it both way RobertGod either made satan on purpose or God is weak and made a mistake – lost control of His own creationA perfect relationship has only TOV in it. However there is a risk factor that the creature created this way may choose another option,If man is only tov – there is no choice – how can man choose ra if it is not within his to choose Again you have a perferct that must be imperfect to validate itselfYou also remove free will to choose? Choose what? Mankind has already both choices running from creation. Choose between the two available choices - tov and ra - DUHOr are you saying that RA wasn't running in Adam before He sinned, but started running after He sinned?Neither ra or tov run- until you choose them Ra cannot force you to choose it Tov cannot force you to choose it either Only man has the Free Will gift to be the ‘creature that chooses’Why is GOD creating a body from dust termed RA by you? It says God made mankind from the ground, and breathed into him the "breath of living".YES! – animal man from the ground – biology – grows old and wears out God also made man of spirit – same substance as “heavenly beings” And God breathed into us our ‘spirit’ and we became a “living Being” Heavenly beings = invisible – living beings = visible beings
At a subatomic level you agree the HS empowers mankind to live, but you also say mankind has some immortal spirit that makes you, you. YES! – God made whales – and mice – and alligators – and all are unuquic and individual Mice are not alligators – they are mice – a different creation than the allagor You are a uniquic individual – you make your choices – you will be judges by those choices I am a uniquic individual – I make my choices – I will be judges for my choices Why doesn't Scripture talk about this? Where is your proof from the Books of Moses, start here first. Ge 6:3 ¶ And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. If the spirit is immortal and different to man, why does spirit no longer strive with man?Hebrew Text: WLC_v (v1.1): Westminster Leningrad Codex with vowels And the LORD said, My - spirit shall not always strive - with man, for that he also - [is] flesh: yet his days shall - be an hundred and twenty - years. 1- God said – His Spirit – HS = the Spirit of God 2- Man is spirit and also Man is flesh God communes through His Spirit – the HS But God cannot commune with animal – dust to spirit relationship God = a spirit to spirit relationship Sometimes – man is in communion (spirit to spirit) Sometimes soul takes the back seat while ‘self’ does the driving You say we are just puppets of the HS and therefore God - then I say your Rauch Elohiym dose an awful lot of sinning / ra Hitler and Stalin were HS puppets?This verse suggests to me GOD strains to keep mankind living because of the sinning poor health we do, eating poorly is also a sin. Hence the relationship to GOD is strained, and our partnership with living becomes less, hence we live less, and die early in age.1- YES – this is all ra – and a simple side effect of being an animal 2- Born Again Christians – may also reach 120 years – Moses did – many on earth have come close – 114 I have heard ofAngels have different makeup to man, so age and decay more slowly than we do, I am assuming the sinning angels are also prone to dying and death, like humans do, “Like humans do” – but you deny anthropomorphizing the heavens You said something to me once like – “God made the archon – just to kill them later – how ridicules a feel good God cannot do that’ But now you have all angels and archon dyeing of old age but Scripture is silent with many details. However Scripture does have angels eating food like humans do? You agree – scripture is not a text book on angelif form – but you make it up anyway
Ge 41:38 And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is? In this context, the term "Spirit of God" must refer to Joseph relationship to GOD, and his character development with GOD. On Joseph part – he opens the door for the HS to commune / comfort The HS comes to us – spirit to spiritLe 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: Here is a different Hebrew word. There is no room for familiar spirits. Meaning characters from sinning powers are not allowed in Scripture. Yet this woman is possessed with one – a familiar spirit – and evil spirit – and archonNu 27:18 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him; Finally here, Moses lays his hand upon Yashua, a type of the Yashua in heaven. A man in the spirit.... meaning He has a perfect relationship to GOD and His character.YES! – spirit to spirit - absolutely agreeLe 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. But you just said GOD created mankind of TOV and RA, but here it says the nephesh is NOT to go whoring after RA owb. Have nothing to do with RA powers. Lev 20:6 (TLV) “The soul that turns to mediumsYet the Hebrews translate it as soulYou say Nephesh = HS – therefore your HS turns to devils – worships devils I have ask you many time to explain to me how the HS drive so many people to sin You evade the question Where does the Owb powers come from? From the dead. Your souls that you see, are wandering around. Catholics is full of this idea. They pray to the dead saints for their Owb powers. This is wrong according to the Scrolls of Moses. When have I ever said that the archon are GhostYour dead are sleeping – how can the sleeping do anything – DUH Yet much of your Gnostic writings come from the Owb of Egypt. Not the ruwach of Egypt. So GOD hands you over to them. A cruel strong authority. Thank you for judging me ‘christian’
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 13:49:31 GMT -5
D POINT – we do not live in a perfect world R So GOD never made a perfect world for Adam and Eve? You have man designed with a immortal soul of TOV embedded into a dusty body of RA.... You agree with this, saying GOD also created Adam with an imperfect relationship. You say a perfect relationship was spirit to spirit – and will be spirit to spirit
OK where is your Scripture for any of these ideas?
D HMMM – man has no choices – because – the choice between tov and ra is in man
R if you intentionally create both TOV and RA running inside a man, genetically you are programming RA affects before the man chooses to do sin and thus add more RA to the RA he was already created with? See your model has no free will of choice? No wonder Jews see Adam sinning to do RA in less than one hour from creation. I do not support anything of the sort.
D YES! – it is hard being soul trapped within an animal that is instinctively greedy and rationalizes that all morality is situational
R Such a created design automatically implies the flesh is sinful and mind therefore has nothing to choose, as the man is already experiencing RA, and the RA is also already running inside him.
Doesn't Scripture says GOD saw everything He made was "very good" two Hebrew words here.
But not according to you. God intentionally made an imperfect world, and created imperfect humans in the Garden of Eve.
D Here you go again Satan was made perfect – but he was imperfect Man was made perfect – but was imperfect You cannot have it both way Robert
What's so hard to fathom? In a relationship, a perfect world is one Person holding the hand of another Person. In a relationship, a imperfect world is one Person NOT holding the hand of another Person.
Now you say you cannot have both, in a relationship? Why not? 1Co 13:4 LOVE suffereth long, and is kind; LOVE envieth not; LOVE vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
LOVE can in fact put up with both kinds of these relationships in a PERFECT world.
You don't get it.
When ONE angel who
In a relationship, a perfect world is one Person holding the hand of another diviine Person.
Began missing relationship
In a relationship, a imperfect world is one Person NOT holding the hand of another divine Person.
This affect is termed by humans as sinning, and the fruits of sinning is many things become dysfunctional ie RA.
This impacts upon many things of GOD, but does not immediately cause GOD to explode into some Being forcing Him to create an imperfect world !!!!
Why do you think the Shadday becomes the Medium, known as the Holy Spirit?
What does Mediums do in a perfect world? They allow imperfect relationships to continue.
Because of medium properties, science say yes, you can show imperfect relationships in a still perfect world.
What can mediums do to light? They magnify it making virtual images
They diminish light, they bend light, etc
All this shows why the HS medium functions this way.... it allows imperfect relationships to exist in a still perfect world, even though the world we live in is strained by the results of RA.
D If man is only tov – there is no choice – how can man choose ra if it is not within his to choose
R Why is this so difficult to fathom?
DNA is a program code. Has mind made choice? Yes / No If yes, do this, if No do this
Such is embedded in the DNA code from the beginning of the DNA code in Adam.
In Scripture this code is "Aven", the genetic propensities inside us, our potential.
Its a Hebrew word, yes in Scripture. Do not awake this code, or all hell breaks out in your code. How do you awaken the aven code? By choosing to do the Code already there, but is alseep (ie in death). DNA code that is never used is called dead code, or some term junk DNA.
Having code is not RA nor sin in itself...it's just code... the code only allows you to choose, so if you choose to jump, the code allows you to jump, if you choose to sleep, the code allows you to sleep,
if you choose to kill, the code allows you to kill. SOme say Guns are evil by design. No, that is like code that allows you to kill. Its the way you use the gun or the code that is evil. not the code or gun per se'
R Or are you saying that RA wasn't running in Adam before He sinned, but started running after He sinned? D Neither ra or tov run- until you choose them Ra cannot force you to choose it Tov cannot force you to choose it either Only man has the Free Will gift to be the ‘creature that chooses’
R here you write essentially the same as me. As I write. Are we on the same page though?
So if neither Tov or RA is running, then human is free to develop as the fetus is developed...
You neglect one thing, from our conception, a ruler rules over us. If GOD is tov and rules over his creation than the fetus is ruled with tov running from conception. D Ra cannot force you to choose it R correct, it is just DNA code, you must awaken the code.
D God also made man of spirit – same substance as “heavenly beings” R Bible text for this idea?
D You are a uniquic individual – you make your choices – you will be judges by those choices I am a uniquic individual – I make my choices – I will be judges for my choices
R so why does making choices require an immortal spirit? It doesn't, it just needs the HS to record your choices .
D 1- God said – His Spirit – HS = the Spirit of God 2- Man is spirit and also Man is flesh God communes through His Spirit – the HS But God cannot commune with animal – dust to spirit relationship God = a spirit to spirit relationship
R Far too brief a reply, no Bible texts, no argument developed...no wonder I battle with you You do not explain yourself... If your ideas are so easy, where is the Hebrew texts on this?
D God cannot commune with animal – dust to spirit relationship R why not? Never does Scripture speak of nepesh as dust + spirit.
Nephesh is a man, making choices. Just because GOD comes down to impart living to the man, you make it complex with adding some immortal part.
Never does Scripture speak of nepesh as dust + spirit.
It says when dust and spirit partner, man Becomes a nephesh.
D You say Nephesh = HS – therefore your HS turns to devils – worships devils I have ask you many time to explain to me how the HS drive so many people to sin You evade the question
R Never had I said Nephesh = HS Human partnered to GOD = Nephesh
The partner process is adminsitrated by the HS.
The nephesh is a Hebrew term that is a whole term on its own.
If you choose to sinning than GOD upholds your choosing. Yet the partnership is strained, but your doing the RA.
D Thank you for judging me R I am not judging you. Sorry if you think this. Scripture says to follow the teachings first in Moses books. You do not do this. Than use other books that add to the harmony.
We seem to be viewing different angles from the same page? If DNA code includes both Tov code and Ra code, than the DNA is not evil per se' Nor is this imperfect code. Thus the universe such code lives in is not imperfect either. Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 6, 2020 11:15:47 GMT -5
D POINT – we do not live in a perfect world R So GOD never made a perfect world for Adam and Eve? We live in the age of the Gentile Adam and Eve lived in the second age
Was their age perfect – the serpent was at home there Is this part of your perfect - Tov + the ra The archon called this place “earth” home since Gen 1:2
You have man designed with a immortal soul of TOV embedded into a dusty body of RA.... Absolutely – YES! Man is spirit – trapped within an animal – YES - Gen 2:7
Spirit has no dimensions – it has limitless boundaries
The First Book of Adam and Eve 8:1THEN Adam wept and said, "O God, when we dwelt in the garden, and our hearts were lifted up, we saw the angels that sang praises in heaven, but now we do not see as we were used to do; nay, when we entered the cave, all creation became hidden from us."
2 Then God the Lord said unto Adam, "When thou wast under subjection to Me, thou hadst a bright nature within thee, and for that reason couldst thou see things afar off. But after thy transgression thy bright nature was withdrawn from thee; and it was not left to thee to see things afar off, but only near at hand; after the ability of the flesh; for it is brutish."
YES! – Adam and Eve were in perfect relationship with God Spirit to spirit
Adam’s animal eyes did not see into the heavens – they are brutish
Mat 4:8 Again, the devil takes Him to a very high mountain and shows Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
How can the devil show the man Jesus all the Kingdoms of the world? - in the spirit – certainly not with the animal eyes of Jesus’ human body You say a perfect relationship was spirit to spirit – and will be spirit to spirit
You (also), say GOD also created Adam with an imperfect relationship. YES! – Adam was an animal – just like you and I In fact – I consider Adam to be the First Homo-sapien This body is from the dust – and of the dust – and with it comes a survival instinct All animals have a survival program running from birth – instinct
What is instinct in an animal? I think of it as – a genetic memory passed down through genetic heritage As the parent learned how best to survive – those traits get genetically passed down to the children To the children of those animal parents it = a genetic memory Instinctively – they remember things – like don’t eat poison and hide from predators
Our spirit once resided in heaven with God – in full awareness Now trapped within a body – limitless / boundless spirit become a locality = soul Soul – instinctively remembers full awareness – deep inside – we all know what is right and wrong because – deep inside we all know the Torah
Man is special Man = (soul + (Mind/Body) Soul remembers – full awareness – this is the home of the Torah and tov (Mind/Body) – is an animal – it remembers how best to survive – protection of ‘self’ Man = (remembers full awareness + (self-preservation))
Joh 15:13 No one has greater love than this: that he lay down his life for his friends. This = choosing tov over self-preservation
OK where is your Scripture for any of these ideas?
Robert – you have been taught to deny the soul In fact – your theology mandates that belief in the soul is a sin Therefore you do not understand what ‘praying in the spirit’ is all about
Jews – Gnostics – and most all Christian see the contest as a call to move beyond the Body and become spiritually mature – deny the body and fee the spirit Flesh is not getting into heaven – only spirit Flesh is a 3D construct – cannot exist in a 4th – 5th – or higher dimension
1Jn 3:2 (TLV) beloved, now, children of God are we, and it was not yet manifested what we shall be, and we have known that if he may be manifested, like him we shall be, because we shall see him as he is;
Like Him we will be
D HMMM – man has no choices – because – the choice between tov and ra is in man R if you intentionally create both TOV and RA running inside a man, genetically you are programming RA affects before the man chooses to do sin and thus add more RA to the RA he was already created with? See your model has no free will of choice?
D Here you go again Satan was made perfect – but he was imperfect Man was made perfect – but was imperfect You cannot have it both way Robert
What's so hard to fathom?
You buy a car from me – I say it perfect – you buy it Five miles away it totally dies - What is your response? 1- it is prefect – but it changed 2- or do you go back to the salesman and accuse hi om lying – it was never perfect
You buy some survival food – guaranteed to last 25 years 2 months later – it is all spoiled Was it as advertised – perfect for 25 years – no
If Adam was perfect only – he could have never sinned – impossible If the angels were made perfect – they could have never rebelled as you demand
In a relationship, a perfect world is one Person holding the hand of another Person. In a relationship, a imperfect world is one Person NOT holding the hand of another Person. And Eve let go of the hand to eat And Adam let go of the hand to join Eve Your definition = an imperfect situastion
D YES! – it is hard being soul trapped within an animal that is instinctively greedy and rationalizes that all morality is situational
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
R Such a created design automatically implies the flesh is sinful and mind therefore has nothing to choose, as the man is already experiencing RA, and the RA is also already running inside him. You can deny it all you want – you are not perfect – you are not as perfect as Jesus Christ In your world Some people are – only 100% tov – Christ like Or – only 100% ra – devil like You are not perfect – therefore you must consider yourself only 100% ra
Doesn't Scripture says GOD saw everything He made was "very good" two Hebrew words here. By God’s definition - not man’s definition or yours You belittle God by continually insisting God cannot do a thing because you don’t like it
But not according to you. God intentionally made an imperfect world, and created imperfect humans in the Garden of Eve. I rely on scripture – I accept scripture as written If God called it tov – then it is tov from His perspective It is absolutely as He wanted – as He Willed – His Plan = tov
D If man is only tov – there is no choice – how can man choose ra if it is not within his to choose R Why is this so difficult to fathom? DNA is a program code. Has mind made choice? Yes / No If yes, do this, if No do this Such is embedded in the DNA code from the beginning of the DNA code in Adam. Such is embedded in the animal (Mind/Body) – the home of yester ra In Scripture this code is "Aven", the genetic propensities inside us, our potential.
Its a Hebrew word, yes in Scripture. Do not awake this code, or all hell breaks out in your code. How do you awaken the aven code? By choosing to do the Code already there, So man has yester tov program + a yester ra program DNA code that is never used is called dead code, or some term junk DNA. OK – it remained junk until Eve – then Adam – activated it – agreed Having code is not RA nor sin in itself...it's just code... the code only allows you to choose, Agreed – it is all about your choice so if you choose to jump, the code allows you to jump, if you choose to sleep, the code allows you to sleep, if you choose to kill, the code allows you to kill. Some say Guns are evil by design. No, Gun don’t kill people – People kill people – it is all about the choice
R Or are you saying that RA wasn't running in Adam before He sinned, but started running after He sinned? D Neither ra or tov run- until you choose them Ra cannot force you to choose it Tov cannot force you to choose it either Only man has the Free Will gift to be the ‘creature that chooses’
R here you write essentially the same as me. As I write. Are we on the same page though? It is because you deny the soul and you embrace satan as a god Two foundational differences between The Torah and Rome
So if neither Tov or RA is running, then human is free to develop as the fetus is developed... God knew us before conception – we had full awareness In the womb God held our hand and taught us the Torah After birth – (Mind/Body) is dysfunctional After Birth – After Birth – God remains with us (in communion) This is why all Jews say – all newborns are happy – they are in communion with God When a baby smiles – it is the Love of God smiling up at you When mom comes to feed baby – her bay is only appreciative – tov (Yester tov is dominate over + (yester ra))
UNTIL (Mind/Body) begins mature – and eventually baby says MOM – get your ass over her and feed me! (Mind/Body) has just expressed itself ‘Self’ demands worldly satisfaction / gratification Now (yester tov is forgotten – buried – denied (yester ra is dominate))
You neglect one thing, from our conception, a ruler rules over us. If GOD is tov and rules over his creation than the fetus is ruled with tov running from conception. Absolutely agreed!
D God also made man of spirit – same substance as “heavenly beings” R Bible text for this idea? Jews – Gnostics – most Christians – see man as spirit You deny this – I have given you many scriptures – but you do not study them – you just refute them you must deny them to maintain your god of evil and man has no soul doctrine
D You are a uniquic individual – you make your choices – you will be judges by those choices I am a uniquic individual – I make my choices – I will be judges for my choices R so why does making choices require an immortal spirit? It doesn't, it just needs the HS to record your choices . So who gets judges in the end – just memories? Your response is – no man is an animal and his animal body will be resurrected and the memories are place back into that animal body and then the animal get judged
R Far too brief a reply, no Bible texts, no argument developed...no wonder I battle with you You do not explain yourself... If your ideas are so easy, where is the Hebrew texts on this? Every time I give you direct access to Rabbi Friedman You response every time = he is not SDA Of course he isn’t he is a Jewish Rabbi and a respected Torah Scholar
D You say Nephesh = HS – therefore your HS turns to devils – worships devils I have ask you many time to explain to me how the HS drive so many people to sin You evade the question R Never had I said Nephesh = HS Human partnered to GOD = Nephesh Again you evade the question If it is God that drives us all around therefore your God turns to devils – worships devils
We seem to be viewing different angles from the same page? If DNA code includes both Tov code and Ra code, than the DNA is not evil per se' Nor is this imperfect code. Maybe I do not see tov as a DNA code Tov = an awareness – a memory of God – held with the soul – a non-physical – spirit – Maybe I see ra as a DNA code that drives the animal to – self-protect
This is why we are called to grow beyond the Body It is a spiritual maturity we seek Spirit – is taught by spirit – the comforter – ‘the Spirit of God’ – HS
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 6, 2020 12:08:09 GMT -5
OK where is your Scripture for any of these ideas? Robert – you have been taught to deny the soul In fact – your theology mandates that belief in the soul is a sin
The council of Laodicea: Cannon 29 364 AD Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.
Do not follow Jewish teachings – follow Rome’s view
Jews – There is only One God – that has a female spirit Gnostics – There is only one God – we can experience his image Christ – or is Spirit which = Holy Most Christians – Trinity all 3 are only 1 – Quarter – heads – tails SDA – 3 independent gods
Jews – God is absolute – God is in Control Gnostics – Agree Christianity – it started that way – but God lost control
Jews – God made everything for it purpose / function Ants do their thing – worms do their thing and satan does his role Satan – is a servant to the Lord Gnostics – the Chief Archon was made imperfect (whatever that means) By the left hand – indirectly – but by the will of the Father Rome – satan was perfect – beautiful – the best – but changed his own nature and corrupted all God’s creation through his own will
Jews – don’t be a practicing Jew – be a religious Jew Above all else – never stop being a Jew Gnostic – everything for it time / age / aion
You say – Jesus changed everything The Jews are all incorrect and have always been so Every single belief you have is anti-Jewish
satan does not have free will to disobey God satan is a servant of God helping to facilitate God’s plan on earth
Man is spirit – an immortal soul that our physical souljourn places at great risk
You love metaphors and similes – but miss half of them
God created man in His likeness God is spirit God came to earth as Jesus and had a physical souljourn here Jesus Christ returned to God – perfect, without blemish, without sin
You cannot understand how Jesus can be God – you deny this If Jesus is God then how can Jesus support God in Heaven
Ever hear of blue tooth – or wifi My phone is a thing with locality My phone plays over a Bluetooth speaker across the room
Internet is better We really do use our hotspots 100% of the time My phone is a thing – it has locality My laptop access the internet through my phone – interactively – two way
God sustains all creation through His E via the omnipresent HS So all sub-atomics are empowered and let go to interact This is a sub-atomic sustaining / communion God creates the animal from the dust and empowers them to live This is on an entirely different invisible mental level of sustaining / communion Some are fortunate enough to become Born Again This is on an entirely different invisible spirit level of sustaining / communion
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 14:18:05 GMT -5
R You have man designed with a immortal soul of TOV embedded into a dusty body of RA.... D Absolutely – YES! Man is spirit – trapped within an animal – YES - Gen 2:7 D YES! – Adam and Eve were in perfect relationship with God Spirit to spirit R You (also), say GOD also created Adam with an imperfect relationship. D YES! – Adam was an animal – just like you and I
SO if man was in a spirit to spirit perfect relationship, how was this possible if the spirit is trapped within the animal and with RA also running, according to your theory. It's a bit confusing?
D Our spirit once resided in heaven with God – in full awareness R You have a Bible reference to this idea?
D Now trapped within a body – limitless / boundless spirit become a locality = soul R so the spirit trapped in the body, becomes nephesh, a soul
Isn't this twisting the Hebrew word HS, your saying the word can also refer to you... Does this destroy this verse:
Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit;
But your saying this "spirit" is "us" therefore we should be able to power our "spirit" and control our "spirit", but this torah teaching says we cannot. SO who's right? who's wrong? Sorry, but I follow Scripture.
D Soul – instinctively remembers full awareness – D deep inside – we all know what is right and wrong D because – deep inside we all know the Torah
R Humans receive the torah from the HS speaking to them via the consciene, not because they know torah already. Why is the gospel spoken to the heathen, if they already know? They don't know.
R OK where is your Scripture for any of these ideas?
D Robert – you have been taught to deny the soul In fact – your theology mandates that belief in the soul is a sin Therefore you do not understand what ‘praying in the spirit’ is all about
R OK where is your Scripture for any of these ideas? Dave you are not supplying any Hebrew texts, not even one from Moses even.
D Flesh is not getting into heaven – only spirit R text please?
Ps 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.(KJV)
This text says the "ruwach" or your term "spirit" returns to God, the "he" here returns to earth, you would say this is the body, and so thoughts perish, I suppose you say a "spirit" cannot talk without being trapped in a body?
If your theory agrees here, that your twisting the word "ruwach" to mean "you" as a "spirit". But this torah violates your model:
Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit;
NO man has power over the "ruwach (your term spirit) to retain the "spirit". This makes sense to me, because other torah says only GOD is immortal. so having a "immortal spirit" violates this scripture also.
D If Adam was perfect only – he could have never sinned – impossible If the angels were made perfect – they could have never rebelled as you demand
R I think I see your problem Dave What does the word "perfect" mean in Hebrew?
In fact there is no meaning like your saying Dave in Hebrew, none I am aware of. V) ( Ts-DQ) — Straight: To be straight. [freq. 41] (vf: Paal, Niphal, Hiphil, Hitpael, Piel) |kjv: justify, righteous, just, justice, cleanse, clear, righteousness| {str: 6663} Nm) ( Ts-DQ) — Straight: [freq. 116] |kjv: righteousness, just, justice, righteous, right| {str: 6664} Nf1) ( TsD-QH) — Straightness: [freq. 157] |kjv: righteousness, justice, right, righteous, moderate| {str: 6666} bm) ( Ts-DYQ)
Jeff Benner uses the term "Straight" not perfect. I tend to agree with him.
There is not Hebrew term for "perfect"
The only terms I see are "complete", "functional" "dysfunctional" and "Straight".
Most people, including SDA get far too twisted on this concept of "perfect".
Most see the slight hint of ra or some angel sinning as imperfect... this is not a Hebrew idea though
If you want to raise this theory of meaning, show me your Hebrew texts for "perfect" please.
Just because sinning angels sin, does not mean they were not created correctly and functionally.
Let me ask you about a word in English : risk
Is risk in a creature perfect or imperfect? I design a functional car, but there is the risk a user can drive the car into a tree. Should I also design risk out of the user's mind also?
Does love have risk? I would say yes.
One can love or choose not to love. Should I also design risk out of the user's mind also? So that the person cannot love? Answer the question Dave, does love have risk? Yes / no
D And Eve let go of the hand to eat D And Adam let go of the hand to join Eve D Your definition = an imperfect situastion
D YES! – it is hard being soul trapped within an animal that is instinctively greedy
R Once you let let of His hand, the two points are no longer straight, but crooked. However if you have a soul as your say trapped within an animal, that is " instinctively greedy " is this not already a body forcing the "spirit" to be sinning? Your model is confusing?
If the arrangement of Adam was faulty to begin with, its not fair to further test him, is it?
Your model is wrong.
Scripture makes it plain Adam was complete, functional and straight with GOD. Not a hint of anything wrong. Sure other angels were in his world sinning already, this does not make an "imperfect world" for Adam.
You follow another Jew idea that Scripture says is false. If the Father sins, that the child lives in an imperfect world because of th Father's sin. Scripture does not teach this idea/
Eze 18:2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. 4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Only the soul that sins dies, not children born from father's who also sin.
So living in a world of other creatures sinning, does not make your world an imperfect one.
D Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
R this text refers to Paul's fight of faith, not '" instinctively greedy " is this not already a body forcing the "spirit" to be sinning? ', its the struggle we have supporting GOD in our prayers.
R Doesn't Scripture says GOD saw everything He made was "very good" two Hebrew words here. D By God’s definition - not man’s definition or yours You belittle God by continually insisting God cannot do a thing because you don’t like it
But not according to you. God intentionally made an imperfect world, and created imperfect humans in the Garden of Eve. I rely on scripture – I accept scripture as written
R wow, such statements ! So if you follow Scripture, why don't you show me your Scripture, I show you mine, and it's Hebrew? Where's your Hebrew? You agree God made everything very functional? OK I agree too. How is a soul trapped in a body of ra functional? Your idea
I have God making mankind functional, without a trace of ra anywhere. Sure other angels were also sinning nearby the earth, later came to the earth to get man to sin. These other sinning angels does not mean GOD did not create a functional world. He did create a functional world.
This is why the term "father of lies" from the beginning, is important statement by Jesus. "father" means "provider"
The sinning angel is the provider of ra, of sins, and thus where such dysfunction is coming from. God is only allowing this to be manifested under his love for a probation of time. Does this creature spoil God? No, does it spoil his creation of earth for man? no
I guess I could agree with you that our functional world, was not ideal, not perfect, becaue it had some angels already sinning in it.
D So man has yester tov program + a yester ra program R DNA code that is never used is called dead code, or some term junk DNA. D OK – it remained junk until Eve – then Adam – activated it – agreed R Having code is not RA nor sin in itself...it's just code... the code only allows you to choose, D Agreed – it is all about your choice R so if you choose to jump, the code allows you to jump, if you choose to sleep, the code allows you to sleep, Rif you choose to kill, the code allows you to kill. R Some say Guns are evil by design. No, D Gun don’t kill people – People kill people – it is all about the choice R We are at last on the same page.
R here you write essentially the same as me. As I write. Are we on the same page though? D It is because you deny the soul and you embrace satan as a god D Two foundational differences between The Torah and Rome
R I see, so using your Scripture you love, show me where this "spirit" idea of yours comes from... D God knew us before conception – we had full awareness R Isn't this just God's all knowing ability... he knows all your sinning you do before you sin, too. Does that make sinning designed from GOD? Some questions you ponder are too deep brother... D This is why all Jews say – all newborns are happy – they are in communion with God When a baby smiles – it is the Love of God smiling up at you R what a lovely idea...nice thought, thanks Dave
D UNTIL (Mind/Body) begins mature – and eventually baby says D MOM – get your ass over her and feed me!
R I woudl not say it like this, your forgetting the Hebrew word "ruler" and "baal" meaning master. Who rules the mind? Can a mind be ruled? Or does the mind freely choose? Always freely choose?
R You neglect one thing, from our conception, a ruler rules over us. If GOD is tov and rules over his creation than the fetus is ruled with tov running from conception. DAbsolutely agreed!
So why don't you have sinning angels also ruling over the fetus, causing the mind to choose RA?
As you say monkey see, monkey do...most of us are monkeys we do not use our mindss to choose, we do as we see others do. our sinning is natural, no thinking in it. This is easier if the sining angels changed our genes, and awakens our RA propensities.
D Jews – Gnostics – most Christians – see man as spirit You deny this – I have given you many scriptures –
R you have already?
Really? Show me your best one? I did it for you remember?
Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
That's the only context I am aware of...
R so why does making choices require an immortal spirit? It doesn't, it just needs the HS to record your choices .
D So who gets judges in the end – just memories? R NO the human, both straight and crooked humans, are raised fully, (your idea spirit with body) to face judgement face to face to GOD.... the records are there for you to see, God knows your sins already.
D Every time I give you direct access to Rabbi Friedman R Frideman does not quote Hebrew, ever, what kind of teacher are you showing me?
D Of course he isn’t he is a Jewish Rabbi and a respected Torah Scholar
R very well, show me the Rabbi quoting dozens of Hebrew texts than?
D Again you evade the question If it is God that drives us all around therefore your God turns to devils – worships devils R Didn't we just agree, the DNA has both RA code and Tov code in it, and your choose which code to awaken? If the DNA code is also empowered to run, using electricity from GOD, how is it God's fault if you choose to use His elecrical power, to awaken RA DNA code?
R OK where is your Scripture for any of these ideas? D Robert – you have been taught to deny the soul D In fact – your theology mandates that belief in the soul is a sin R than you do not show me any Hebrew texts...
D God is spirit D Man is spirit D satan does not have free will to disobey God Not a single Hebrew verse you showed me...
Joh 4:24 God (is a) Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The (is) is added, not in the Greek. People misquote this phrase wrongly.
Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. The ruwach in man, comes from the Shadday. Plain Scripture here.
That's the best Hebrew I could find, But hey I am new to finding Hebrew, you studied this already, I haven't, so where's your texts?
D satan does not have free will to disobey God R Opposer does not have free will to oppose God R well the word opposer means to oppose. If used in a context with other beings, means the opposer must oppose that being. SO yes God opposed Baalim. So if Opposer comes to a meeting with GOD, the opposer has to oppose GOD, otherwise something wrong with the meaning of the word.... so the opposer is respectful to GOD, but Baalim was respectful to GOD too, and GOD when opposing Baalim was respectful to Baalim too. Your twisting the word oppose to also mean a creature who is friendly and on the same side as the other being opposing the opposer.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 7, 2020 9:00:04 GMT -5
R You have man designed with a immortal soul of TOV embedded into a dusty body of RA.... D Absolutely – YES! Man is spirit – trapped within an animal – YES - Gen 2:7 D YES! – Adam and Eve were in perfect relationship with God Spirit to spirit R You (also), say GOD also created Adam with an imperfect relationship. D YES! – Adam was an animal – just like you and I SO if man was in a spirit to spirit perfect relationship, how was this possible if the spirit is trapped within the animal and with RA also running, according to your theory. It's a bit confusing? It is called spiritual communion spirt to spirit Praying in the spiritD Our spirit once resided in heaven with God – in full awareness R You have a Bible reference to this idea? Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. The spirit of man – within man (Soul + (Mind/Body))
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew (H3045 G1987) thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. H3045 – יָדַע - yâda‛ - 'to know (properly to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially (including observation, care, recognition; and causatively instruction, designation, punishment, etc.): - acknowledge, acquaintance (-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, [un-] awares, can [-not], certainly, for a certainty, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare, be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be [ig-] norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to, let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have [knowledge], (be, make, make to be, make self) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have [understanding], X will be, wist, wit, wot. The (LXX) uses - G1987 - ἐπίσταμαι – epistamai - Apparently a middle voice of G2186 (with G3563 implied); to put the mind upon, that is, comprehend, or be acquainted with: Psa 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. Psa 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. Psa 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Reincarnation RE – again + in (to be inside) + carnal = mortal = (Mind/Body) To once again be in a bodyMal 3:1 Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant, whom ye desire, behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts. Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Jehovah come. 1- If you accept scripture – and Jesus was the Christ Then John the Baptist was Elijah How can this be if Elijah is asleep in the grave? Why is not John – just called Elijah if it is Elijah? ANSWER – different body
2- If you are Jewish – Elijah and Moses come to witness before the Christ To once again be in a body – to reincarnate
Reincarnation is 100% JewishDoes Judaism Believe in Reincarnation?youtu.be/BqThDOTODZ0Reincarnation in the Jewish Traditionyoutu.be/mM8dn68vgD8If you are unfamiliar with the story – Soul SurvivorYou should get aquaninted www.amazon.com/Soul-Survivor-Reincarnation-World-Fighter/dp/0446509345This is the story of James Leininger, who-- a little more than two weeks after his second birthday-- began having blood-curdling nightmares that just would not stop. When James began screaming out recurring phrases like, "Plane on fire! Little man can't get out!" the Leiningers finally admitted that they truly had to take notice. youtu.be/VYE0WEFz_OAThe rebuttal at the end of the YouTube video = Reincarnation is scientifically evident – but anti religion because of Heb 9:27 Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: The Christian mandates this verse to mean – you get one chance and the judgment is yes or no Heaven or hell SDA teach that there is no heaven experience at all – you just sleep in the grave until the final judgment – Then is it yes or no Jews and Gnostics do not support this at all Proportional Punishment – and there is the option of a do-over The Apocryphon of John - The Nag Hammadi Library And I said, "Lord, where will the souls of these go when they have come out of their flesh?" And he smiled and said to me, "The soul in which the power will become stronger than the counterfeit spirit, is strong and it flees from evil and, through the intervention of the incorruptible one, it is saved, and it is taken up to the rest of the aeons." Born Again – Spiritual Christians go straight to the Bosom of AbrahamAnd I said, "Lord, those, however, who have not known to whom they belong, where will their souls be?" And he said to me, "In those, the despicable spirit has gained strength when they went astray. And he burdens the soul and draws it to the works of evil, and he casts it down into forgetfulness. And after it comes out of (the body), it is handed over to the authorities, who came into being through the archon, and they bind it with chains and cast it into prison, and consort with it until it is liberated from the forgetfulness and acquires knowledge. And if thus it becomes perfect, it is saved." Ordinary Christians – Proportional Punishment – purificationAnd I said, "Lord, how can the soul become smaller and return into the nature of its mother or into man?" Then he rejoiced when I asked him this, and he said to me, "Truly, you are blessed, for you have understood! That soul is made to follow another one (fem.), since the Spirit of life is in it. It is saved through him. It is not again cast into another flesh." The soul is made to commune in spirit with HS (female) It is saved through HIM – Divine Pardon No need for a do overD Now trapped within a body – limitless / boundless spirit become a locality = soul Spirit is boundless – it is a ‘heavenly being’ Adam and Eve could see the music that angels sang in heaven Once mated to a body – spirit is given a confined locality – within the animal vehicle Spirit at locality = soul - and man becomes a ‘living being’ Isn't this twisting the Hebrew word HS, your saying the word can also refer to you... Does this destroy this verse: None of this has anything to do with the Holy Spirit If you are just the HS – then the HS sure does a lot of sin Most of us are horrible sinners – all of are sinnersSorry Robert – you are not the HS You are just youEc 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; How can you control your soul? If the HS communes with you and it leaves – can you stop it? Can you force the HS to commune with you? If you are guilty – why does your conscious bother you? Can’t you just shut off soul? (Mind/Body) “thinks” it can – but it cannotBut your saying this "spirit" is "us" therefore we should be able to power our "spirit" and control our "spirit", but this torah teaching says we cannot. SO who's right? who's wrong? Sorry, but I follow Scripture. DUH – Ec 8:8 Scripture is always right R Humans receive the torah from the HS speaking to them via the consciene, not because they know torah already. Why is the gospel spoken to the heathen, if they already know? They don't know. To help them remember what they already know and to introduce the age of the Gentile Ps 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.(KJV) YEP! (Mind/Body) is over – only spirit returns to GodThis text says the "ruwach" or your term "spirit" returns to God, the "he" here returns to earth, you would say this is the body, and so thoughts perish, I suppose you say a "spirit" cannot talk without being trapped in a body? YES! Ruwach means spirit – man’s spirit returns to Godthe "he" here returns to earth –NO – the he – the individual – the soul/spirit returns to God "he" here returns to earth, you would say this is the body, and so thoughts perish, Intellect is not spirit – it is a product of the Mind Mind/Body returns to dust If your theory agrees here, that your twisting the word "ruwach" to mean "you" as a "spirit". But this torah violates your model: Ruwach means spirit – no more – no less As you and Jeff discussed – spirit requires a modifier Ruwach Elohiym – Spirit of God Ruwach game – spirit of the game Ruwach human being – man’s spiritother torah says only GOD is immortal. so having a "immortal spirit" violates this scripture also. Text please than man never gets to experience eternal life I would love to see this text – only God is eternalD If Adam was perfect only – he could have never sinned – impossible If the angels were made perfect – they could have never rebelled as you demand Just because sinning angels sin, does not mean they were not created correctly and functionally. BINGO – CORRECT – they were made exactly as God intended God’s Will rules – God’s plan Let me ask you about a word in English : risk Prodigal Son God lets us go – it is up to us to return
You follow another Jew idea that Scripture says is false. If the Father sins, that the child lives in an imperfect world because of the Father's sin. Scripture does not teach this idea/ Robert – you are border line – out of lineWhy do you continually misquote me – misrepresent me in a way that is so twisted I say – God sins Back it now ! Ezk 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. YES! – All creation belongs to God – Agree Yes! – the soul of the son – follower – believer – is God’s Yes! The soul of the sinner dies in the seconds death – lake of fireOnly the soul that sins dies, not children born from father's who also sin. YES! – it is the soul that stands judgment – not the animalSo living in a world of other creatures sinning, does not make your world an imperfect one. You twist The question you put to me = it is a perfect world Now you speak of ‘your world’ your space within the imperfect worldD Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. R this text refers to Paul's fight of faith, not '" instinctively greedy " is this not already a body forcing the "spirit" to be sinning? ', its the struggle we have supporting GOD in our prayers. What does this mean Robert? You talked of the difficulties of doing Missionary work in the red light district If a young sexy thing want you really badly – you would be aroused – you animal Deep inside soul is saying tov – (mind/Body) is saying something different D This is why all Jews say – all newborns are happy – they are in communion with God When a baby smiles – it is the Love of God smiling up at you R what a lovely idea...nice thought, thanks Dave It is 100% JewishD UNTIL (Mind/Body) begins mature – and eventually baby says D MOM – get your ass over her and feed me! R I woudl not say it like this, your forgetting the Hebrew word "ruler" and "baal" meaning master. Who rules the mind? Can a mind be ruled? Or does the mind freely choose? Always freely choose? Hunger is a natural – it is an instinctive need for survival – demanding it now = an expression of selfR You neglect one thing, from our conception, a ruler rules over us. If GOD is tov and rules over his creation than the fetus is ruled with tov running from conception. DAbsolutely agreed! So why don't you have sinning angels also ruling over the fetus, causing the mind to choose RA? Tell me in scripture where this is their job? I have scripture that says God can do itRo 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: That's the only context I am aware of... Rom 8:16 αὐτὸ τὸ Πνεῦμα συμμαρτυρεῖ τῷ πνεύματι ἡμῶν ὅτι ἐσμὲν τέκνα Θεοῦ. Subject - αὐτὸ τὸ Πνεῦμα = Himself the Spirit – or the Spirt it’s self Verb - G4828 – συμμαρτυρέω - From G4862 and G3140; to testify jointly, that is, corroborate by (concurrent) evidence: - testify unto, (also) bear witness (with αὐτὸ τὸ Πνεῦμα συμμαρτυρεῖ Himself The Spirit – The Spirit It’s Self - testifies jointly – in collaboration - Jointly with who – in collaboration with who τῷ πνεύματι ἡμῶν The spirit – ours / our spirit SORRY ROBERT – (αὐτὸ τὸ Πνεῦμα) Himself the Spirit is not the same spirit as (πνεύματι ἡμῶν) our spirit R so why does making choices require an immortal spirit? It doesn't, it just needs the HS to record your choices . Who make the choice – animal – simply driven by a survival instinct?D Again you evade the question If it is God that drives us all around therefore your God turns to devils – worships devils R Didn't we just agree, the DNA has both RA code and Tov code in it, and your choose which code to awaken? If the DNA code is also empowered to run, using electricity from GOD, how is it God's fault if you choose to use His elecrical power, to awaken RA DNA code? YES – but you insist we are just puppets of God – so as we sin God is sinning If we are just God puppets then Gods is the sinner – he directs our choices everyday – you say Joh 4:24 God (is a) Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The (is) is added, not in the Greek. People misquote this phrase wrongly. Tell how it should be translatedJoh 4:24 πνεῦμα ὁ Θεός, καὶ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτὸν ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ δεῖ προσκυνεῖν. πνεῦμα ὁ Θεός, - Spirit the God προσκυνοῦντας - V-PPA-AMP Verb – present participle - active – middle or passive voice – plural and those worshiping (licking boots) continually all the time who is the direct object of the verb - - Spirit the God – the God Spirit How should we worship the God spirit ἐν πνεύματι – in spirit Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. The ruwach in man, comes from the Shadday. Plain Scripture here. Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in people, the breath of Shaddai that gives them understanding. That's the best Hebrew I could find, But hey I am new to finding Hebrew, you studied this already, I haven't, so where's your texts? Don’t you believe that the HS comes to us as the comforter to teach us (Jhn 14:26) Men have souls – and the HS comes to teach us understanding
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 16:29:33 GMT -5
Greetings Dave I do not support reincarnation...
R Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit;
D How can you control your soul?
R this word here is not soul (nephesh) but "ruwach". You cannot control the "ruwach".
D If the HS communes with you and it leaves – can you stop it? R Profoundly NO.
D Can you force the HS to commune with you? R Profoundly NO.
D If you are guilty – why does your conscious bother you? R Because the HS is convictng you of a sin, a medium for the voice of GOD speaking to you
D Can’t you just shut off soul? (Mind/Body) “thinks” it can – but it cannot R you mean shut off the conscience, of course you can, Scripture says the conscience is seared...you no longer hear GOD talking to you...But God still empowers you with living.
D But your saying this "spirit" is "us" .... R Dave, I have never said this.... The nephesh come in two forms, verb and noun, both must have the same meaning. Only difference in action.
2424) ( NPSh) ac: Refresh co: Soul ab: ?: The whole of a person, the body, breath and mind. V) ( N-ShP) — Refresh: To refresh the whole of the person. [freq. 3] (vf: Niphal) |kjv: refresh| {str: 5314} Nf) ( N-PSh) — Soul: [freq. 751] |kjv: soul, life, person, mind, heart, creature, body, dead, will, desire, man, self, any, appetite| {str: 5315}
Sometimes I do not agree with Jeff Benner, He does not follow his own teachings... This word in noun and verb word must have the same meaning. Verb must therefore mean "energize" and the noun mean "energy".
Ex 23:12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be "energized" . Ex 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was "energized". Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living "energy".
It's interesting here that "energy" on its own, is not living with matter. Atoms have energy in it, but atoms are not living. The Hebrew adds two Hebrew words to the concept of mankind.... Man had GOD breathing the breath of life , and man became living energy. SO what makes the dust living energy, the presence of a personal GOD partnered to us, ie the HS.
If mankind is partnered to GOD, why do you think man is GOD?
If GOD allows mankind to develop love, (as GOD is love) why do you suppose man owns this love we develop from God?
D But your saying this "spirit" is "us" R No I have never said this... man never owns anything. We are at best only stewards.
God give us the ability to develop character, that makes us unique, but this love we develop comes from GOD. Yes Scripture calls this the "spirit of Man", but it is the "stuff" we develop from being partnered to GOD, via the HS.
Our character is the only thing we are judged on, hence the only thing from this earth, we take into heaven, and not as some "spirit" as you allude, but the essence of our dealings with GOD, we take into heaven.
If we prove straight in relationship, the relationship lives on in heaven, as a relationship still, never as some "spirit" thing you think.
D therefore we should be able to power our "spirit" and control our "spirit", R No, didn't I show you a verse that says no to this? Now your using the same verse against me?
D but this torah teaching says we cannot. SO who's right? who's wrong? Sorry, but I follow Scripture. DUH – Ec 8:8 Scripture is always right
R I showed you this verse to show you, you cannot control the "ruwach" ever, not while your living, not while your sleeping in death either. SO if you agree you cannot control our "spirit" why do you insist a part of you is wandering around? after you die? even reincarnates even?
D Ps 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.(KJV) YEP! (Mind/Body) is over – only spirit returns to God R Yes, and you agree you have no control over this "spirit" that returns to GOD... correct...
D Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: The Christian mandates this verse to mean – you get one chance and the judgment is yes or no Heaven or hell
SDA teach that there is no heaven experience at all – you just sleep in the grave until the final judgment – Then is it yes or no
Jews and Gnostics do not support this at all Proportional Punishment – and there is the option of a do-over
R all summarized correctly. There is no "option of a do-over". no "Proportional Punishment "
D Now trapped within a body – limitless / boundless spirit become a locality = soul Spirit is boundless – it is a ‘heavenly being’ R Yes ruwach is a "heavenly being".
D Adam and Eve could see the music that angels sang in heaven
D Once mated to a body – spirit is given a confined locality – within the animal vehicle Spirit at locality = soul - and man becomes a ‘living being’
Isn't this twisting the Hebrew word HS, your saying the word can also refer to you... Does this destroy this verse: None of this has anything to do with the Holy Spirit If you are just the HS – then the HS sure does a lot of sin Most of us are horrible sinners – all of are sinners
Sorry Robert – you are not the HS You are just you
R boy you're confusing, I never said we are the HS. what a stupid idea. I said the "quantum spark" from GOD, administrated by the HS, living inside of us personally, as we journey with GOD in partnership with GOD, man becomes "living energy". The electrical power allows the DNA to think, to do and to develop a character of love, that is responding to God's love, we enjoy in partnership. Again you focus on me, twisting my words, how about explaining what you mean ?
D YES! Ruwach means spirit – man’s spirit returns to God R hang on, does ruwach now have two meanings? or one meaning?
Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. How about explaining what you mean ?
D Ruwach means spirit – no more – no less R agreed D As you and Jeff discussed – spirit requires a modifier R yes, but while ruwach is a medium function, it is also a co-eternal Being, the Shadday. The Shadday requires no modifier.
D Text please than man never gets to experience eternal life R I didn't say that...
D I would love to see this text – only God is eternal
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Only GOD is immortal, outside of matter, time and space. Creatures are therefore subject to time, space and matter. God is not subject to time, space and matter.
Only GOD is living. If matter is living, it is because GOD empowers living in it.
Man is only living because man is partnered to "LIVING". Once man dies, the "LIVING" returns to GOD.
There are other Scripture that says your living wih GOD is recorded, while your are living with GOD.
Once the partnership is broken, everything is broken. Nothing happens until the partnership is connected again.
I explain myself Dave. you explain yourself.
D If Adam was perfect only – he could have never sinned – impossible D If the angels were made perfect – they could have never rebelled as you demand
R Just because sinning angels sin, does not mean they were not created correctly and functionally.
D BINGO – CORRECT – they were made exactly as God intended God’s Will rules – God’s plan
R Dave you have trouble reading my words...
You say if Adam was perfect, he could never sin. So because Adam sinned, he was created imperfect.
That is silly.
You didn't answer my question: Does love have risk?
If relationship is perfect, than relationship can break off relationship. How is this creating relationship imperfect?
Love requires risk. Otherwise it's not love.
Perfect love, has perfect risk. Otherwise it's not love.
Relationship implies breaking relationship. That is what a perfect relationship means. Breaking relationship is termed missing GOD or sinning.
You write emotionally "Bingo- correct" than one sentence.
I write 10 sentences to your one. Read my words carefully and write your own words, without emotion in them.
R Let me ask you about a word in English : risk D Prodigal Son God lets us go – it is up to us to return
R you change the topic.... can't you follow my line of thinking? Does love have risk? Is perfect love with perfect risk?
D YES! – it is the soul that stands judgment – not the animal R Dave nephesh faces judgement, the entire living energy, why do you split nephesh into parts?
R So living in a world of other creatures sinning, does not make your world an imperfect one. D You twist The question you put to me = it is a perfect world Now you speak of ‘your world’ your space within the imperfect world R My Dad's dad left my dad while aged 8, ran away. So my Dad was fathered by another dad. I suppose this left scars on my dad, trying to love me as his son. My Dad's imperfect world of loving, affects my world of loving with my own Dad. This in turn influences my children's world of loving with me. Could my Dad have loved me differently? No, not unless he was empowered by GOD as a supporter of GOD. My Dad struggled with GOD as a person of love, as he never grew up with loving Dad to begin with. So how was my loving growing up with my Dad? I was lucky, chosen maybe...? I became a child like supporter of GOD from age 16, and God ruled over me with additional love, that my Dad never gave me.
So my point is Dave: R So living in a world of other creatures sinning, does not make your world an imperfect one. As you say I "speak of ‘your world’ your space within the imperfect world" , yes I do, God helps us to see His love.
D You talked of the difficulties of doing Missionary work in the red light district If a young sexy thing want you really badly – you would be aroused – you animal Deep inside soul is saying tov – (mind/Body) is saying something different
R correct Dave, you understand the fight of support. I have enough trouble when dealing with others, controlling my tongue, let alone controlling my eyes. The difficulties is praying for prayer promises when you need them. The mind fights to remain partnered to GOD. Rather than partnered to self and or Satan.
R So why don't you have sinning angels also ruling over the fetus, causing the mind to choose RA? D Tell me in scripture where this is their job?
R Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were "ruled" sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be "ruled" righteous. Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Who is the provider of death? Hence the father of sinning as a power to break relationships to GOD?
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (KJV)
The first angel who sinned becomes a source of sinning and therefore establishes a ruler of breaking relationships to GOD. This angel influenced other angels to also break relationship to GOD.
This angel also caused mankind to break relationship with GOD too.
There are two rulers on the pole, two beings of burning, Jesus who is termed baal, ie your master, and Satan is also termed BAAL as your master too. You support one of these rulers, who rule you. Does the Opposer have a kingdom?
Mt 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Does Jesus call this opposer a prince of the world? Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Does the sinning angel influence the fetus to do sinning? Ps 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief shall return upon his own head, and his violent dealing shall come down upon his own pate.
Isa 59:4 ..they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity. 5 They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper. 6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
This sinning angel causes a broken relationship, and GOD allows the broken relationship to endure, as love does endure.
Aven is a DNA trait epigenetics, our DNA responds to rulers who rule over us.
D SORRY ROBERT – (αὐτὸ τὸ Πνεῦμα) Himself the Spirit is not the same spirit as (πνεύματι ἡμῶν) our spirit R Ok write some sentences about your ideas Dave.... stop this pondering of confusion. What are you saying?
So your saying the ruwach in not the same `as your ruwach. explain
D Tell how it should be translated R you already bag my understanding of noun noun, with space between.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father "via the Holy Spirit" and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 Heavenly Elohiym Holy Spirit: and they that worship "heavenly power" must worship "heavenly power" "via the Holy Spirit" and in truth.
I see the noun space noun, as a title of heavenly power. I also see the worship of the heavenly power via the Holy Spirit, which functions as a medium for the worship of the Father. You no longer have to visit a earthly temple to experience this communion. That is what the woman was talking about, physical places of worship.
D Men have souls – and the HS comes to teach us understanding R you have a habit of writing briefly... no other meanings... please explain your terms clearly.
Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 7, 2020 19:23:24 GMT -5
I do not support reincarnation... R Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; D How can you control your soul? Do you decide when to be born and when to die? When have I ever said man is in control of his own soul – as in we can make it do things? You therefore must mean – God cannot do with us as He chooses You diminish God
Of course you CANT support re rebith of a soul – because you deny the soul You beg for a scripture reference and your response to that scripture is The Tanak is in error – Malaki lied – did not write correct scripture God cannot send Elijah to prepare the way for the Lord – impossible
R this word here is not soul (nephesh) but "ruwach". You cannot control the "ruwach". Agree –
D If you are guilty – why does your conscious bother you? R Because the HS is convictng you of a sin, a medium for the voice of GOD speaking to you You say - We are just HS puppets = therefore the HS is convicting itself You have a God that convicts himself You cannot say – Giod is convicting you – because you do not exist – you are just a puppet of the HS
Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living "energy".
It's interesting here that "energy" on its own, is not living with matter. Atoms have energy in it, but atoms are not living. The Hebrew adds two Hebrew words to the concept of mankind.... Man had GOD breathing the breath of life , and man became living energy. SO what makes the dust living energy, the presence of a personal GOD partnered to us, ie the HS. So man is no different than a cow – just animal Where is scripture does it call animals “living Energy”?
R all summarized correctly. There is no "option of a do-over". no "Proportional Punishment " A year ago you believed in Proportional Punishment - belief A year ago my cosmology was exactly the same - gnosis
D Once mated to a body – spirit is given a confined locality – within the animal vehicle Spirit at locality = soul - and man becomes a ‘living being’ Isn't this twisting the Hebrew word HS, your saying the word can also refer to you...
Sorry Robert – you are not the HS You are just you R boy you're confusing, I never said we are the HS. what a stupid idea. D YES! Ruwach means spirit – man’s spirit returns to God R hang on, does ruwach now have two meanings? or one meaning?
Holy Cow Robert – and you pretend to translate Ruwach means spirit – that is all it means D Ruwach means spirit – no more – no less R agreed D As you and Jeff discussed – spirit requires a modifier R yes, but while ruwach is a medium function, it is also a co-eternal Being, the Shadday. The Shadday requires no modifier.
Agree – Spirit (of God – modifier) = the Holy Spirit – Agreed The spirit (of man – modifier) is not the HS – it is man’s spirit You are the one who insist that we have no spirit – we are just HS puppets
Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. How about explaining what you mean ? DUH – man = (soul + (Mind/Body) upon MORTAL death – because the Body (Mind/Body) is not immortal – Body returns from where is came – dust upon Mortal death – because the Body (Mind/Body) is not immortal – our soul is released and returns to from where it came = God for judgment
D Text please than man never gets to experience eternal life R I didn't say that... D I would love to see this text – only God is eternal
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
G110 - - θανασία - athanasia From a compound of G1 (as a negative particle) and G2288; deathlessness: - immortality. G1 = (a) – put a in front of a word – it negates the meaning Theos = God – atheos = no God G2288 – death – as in mortal death G110= no-mortal death Immortal = not-morrtal Only GOD is immortal, outside of matter, time and space. Creatures are therefore subject to time, space and matter. So the promise of eternal life is a lie All of Christianity is a lie Man will never ever live forever – the promise is a lie
Only GOD is living. If matter is living, it is because GOD empowers living in it. Again I beg you to explain yourself On what level does God empower you On the level of the sub-atomic – agree On the level of Chemistry and biology – agree But you have God or the HS making all your choice for you You even asked – what does man need with a soul anyway – we are just puppets of the HS BUT – when I ask you why your puppet master makes you choose sin – you change the subject
Man is only living because man is partnered to "LIVING". Once man dies, the "LIVING" returns to GOD. YES! The Rabbi said LIFE LIVES – and you thought him stupid
There are other Scripture that says your living wih GOD is recorded, while your are living with GOD. What are the ‘other books’ of Revelation?
Once the partnership is broken, everything is broken. Nothing happens until the partnership is connected again. Mam is an animal robot of the HS So tell me how so many men sin – if nothing happens If man is just a robot of the HS – then why does the HS sin? I keep asking you this – you say it is your DNA So man has no soul – he is just DNA (Dust + HS) a robot animal driven around by the HS So why does the HS sin? you say it is your DNA
R Just because sinning angels sin, does not mean they were not created correctly and functionally. D BINGO – CORRECT – they were made exactly as God intended God’s Will rules – God’s plan
You didn't answer my question: Does love have risk? You either do not understand the Prodigal Son Or you choose to egnore it – as you ignore a lot of scripture First we have to disregard Job – now we have to disregard Malaki
R Let me ask you about a word in English : risk D Prodigal Son God lets us go – it is up to us to return R you change the topic.... can't you follow my line of thinking? Does love have risk? Is perfect love with perfect risk? You either do not understand the Prodigal Son Or you choose to egnore it – as you ignore a lot of scripture First we have to disregard Job – now we have to disregard Malaki
D YES! – it is the soul that stands judgment – not the animal R Dave nephesh faces judgement, the entire living energy, why do you split nephesh into parts? Because the animal does not matter – only the soul matters Don’t be afraid of those that can kill the body Be afraid of those that can kill the soul
Why do you focus all spirituality upon an animal Animals do not have a soul – or Christians would be out proselytizing animals Have you witnessed to your cat reciently?
D You talked of the difficulties of doing Missionary work in the red light district If a young sexy thing want you really badly – you would be aroused – you animal Deep inside soul is saying tov – (mind/Body) is saying something different R correct Dave, you understand the fight of support. I have enough trouble when dealing with others, controlling my tongue, let alone controlling my eyes. The difficulties is praying for prayer promises when you need them. The mind fights to remain partnered to GOD. Rather than partnered to self and or Satan. For me – the Mind is a biological function – hurt the brain and you hurt the intellect All of this is biological dust – it is only the vehicle for the soul
R Ro 5:19 Ro 5:14 Who is the provider of death? Hence the father of sinning as a power to break relationships to GOD? 1- God created everything – provided everything – made all things possible 2- God created man with the ability to choose – Prodigal Son 3- this is a risk – absolutely – but the reward is sweeter to the Lord – Prodigal Son
Satan did not create ra – God did – satan is a facilitator God’s creation is exactly as God created it – and it is TOV – according to Him (your opinion doesn’t count)
God loves man so much – He lets them go Go where? – into the lower world – this world of corporeal pain and suffering – the domain of the archon – THEY WERE HERE FIRST WHY? – the Christian Ponders the meaning of Life – why am I here – is this tov – this cannot be God’s perfect tov world – this is satan’s domain – therefore satan is a god and satan created the bad stuf BOLOGNY The Jew and the Gnostic know exactly why we are here TO REMEMBER and REVEAL GOD to the entire world as best we can The Jews had to dance around like clowns for the whole world to see Jesus had to die upon the cross or the whole world to see Him rise again The Christian has his own dance for the world to see – Christians have their own witness Kill the Jews – Kill the Muslim – and then Kill then Protestant Only to have the Protestant see Roma and CHRISTIANITY as the anti-Christ Christians infighting with other Christians – while the rest of the world is still under the hand of God
D SORRY ROBERT – (αὐτὸ τὸ Πνεῦμα) Himself the Spirit is not the same spirit as (πνεύματι ἡμῶν) our spirit R Ok write some sentences about your ideas Dave.... stop this pondering of confusion. What are you saying? DUH – God is not a man made of flesh and blood – He is spirit Man “the being” is not flesh and blood – man is a spirit being having a physical souljourn A Human Being – Gen 2:7 Man “the being” inside a humanoid ‘living creature’ = LIVING BEING
Rom 8:16 : So your saying the ruwach in not the same `as your ruwach. explain
OK Robert – I will treat you like a 1st year Greek Student Rom 8:16 αὐτὸ τὸ Πνεῦμα συμμαρτυρεῖ τῷ πνεύματι ἡμῶν ὅτι ἐσμὲν τέκνα Θεοῦ. Rom 8:17 εἰ δὲ τέκνα, καὶ κληρονόμοι, κληρονόμοι μὲν Θεοῦ,
Romans 8:16 begins with a pronoun αὐτὸ (my most favorite word that can mean almost anything) But it is a pronoun use commonly for Him or His – it or it’s – her or her’s (we will just use this)
English example – IT is beautiful. This sentence begins with a pronoun – what is the IT? IT could mean anything – the only way to know what IT is – is to put it in context
αὐτὸ τὸ Πνεῦμα συμμαρτυρεῖ Himself The Spirit – The Spirit It’s Self - testifies jointly – in collaboration – Who is Himself the Spirit? Who is the ‘Spirit it’s self’ In context – this = God / The Lord / God’s Spirt which is the HS
Vrs – who does ‘αὐτὸ τὸ Πνεῦμα’ testifies jointly with or collaborates with πνεύματι ἡμῶν – spirit our – our spirit In context – this is not the ‘αὐτὸ τὸ Πνεῦμα’ it is πνεύματι ἡμῶν
D Tell how it should be translated R you already bag my understanding of noun noun, with space between. OK – God’s-Spirit collaborates with man’s-spirit Two different nouns - God’s-Spirit – man’s-spirit
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father "via the Holy Spirit" and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 Heavenly Elohiym Holy Spirit: and they that worship "heavenly power" must worship "heavenly power" "via the Holy Spirit" and in truth.
Joh 4:23 ἀλλὰ ἔρχεται ὥρα, καὶ νῦν ἐστιν, ὅτε οἱ ἀληθινοὶ προσκυνηταὶ προσκυνήσουσι τῷ πατρὶ ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ· καὶ γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ τοιούτους ζητεῖ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτόν. Joh 4:24 πνεῦμα ὁ Θεός, καὶ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτὸν ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ δεῖ προσκυνεῖν.
Joh 4:23 - ἐν πνεύματι – in spirit G1722 - ἐν – en - A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state),
and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), that is, a relation of rest (intermediate between G1519 and G1537); “in”, at, (up-) on, by, etc.: - about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-) by (+ all means), for (. . . sake of), + give self wholly to, (here-) in (-to, -wardly), X mightily, (because) of, (up-) on, [open-] ly, X outwardly, one, X quickly, X shortly, [speedi-] ly, X that, X there (-in, -on), through (-out), (un-) to(-ward), under, when, where (-with), while, with (-in). Often used in compounds, with substantially the same import; rarely with verbs of motion, and then not to indicate direction, except (elliptically) by a separate (and different) prep.
In the state of spirit – althogether in spirit – between one spirit and another – through spirit -
Joh 4:24 - 1- πνεῦμα ὁ Θεός – spirit the God - vrs - ἐν πνεύματι God the Spirit – the Spirit God - vrs – just spirit (no modifier)
I see the noun space noun, as a title of heavenly power. I also see the worship of the heavenly power via the Holy Spirit, which functions as a medium for the worship of the Father. The verse does not say this We worship the Spirt God – in spirit – (HS in nowhere near this sentence) The HS does function as the medium – HS = spirit But this sentence does not indicate this fact in any way
D Men have souls – and the HS comes to teach us understanding R you have a habit of writing briefly... no other meanings... please explain your terms clearly. I am sorry – these exchanges are long enough – NOT A COMPLAINT But I try to streamline where I can – for reduction sake
the HS comes to teach us understanding is such a common Christian teaching I am surprise you question it
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Neh 9:20 Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them,
Mat 10:19-20 - Mark 13:11 - Luke 12:12 - 1 Jhn 2:27
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2020 17:21:47 GMT -5
D You say - We are just HS puppets = therefore the HS is convicting itself You have a God that convicts himself R Maybe a simile will help you Imagine a battery LED light... made of atoms and matter right....plus batteries...OK so where does the electricity that powers the LED come from? From GOD.... so YOU holding YOUR LED light, can shine HIS light anytime you want to, whereever you want to, you are a steward of HIS light, but also a witness to HIS light, because you control when you switch HIS light on, and off, so in this way YOUR playing around with GOD's electrical power, becomes like YOU, a function we term CHARCACTER.... DO this help?
Your not a puppet on a string, you do truly use the electrical power however you like. This also works for wicked people too, whjo use the power to hurt others, kill others and do RA with the torch.
D So man is no different than a cow – just animal
Where is scripture does it call animals “living Energy”? R Don't you study Hebrew, maybe you lack electronic means to do so?
Ge 1:20 ¶ And God <'elohiym> said <'amar>, Let the waters <mayim> bring forth abundantly <sharats> the moving creature <sherets> that hath <nephesh> life <chay>, and fowl <`owph> that may fly <`uwph> above <`al> the earth <'erets> in the open <paniym> firmament <raqiya`> of heaven <shamayim>.
Ge 1:21 And God <'elohiym> created <bara'> great <gadowl> whales <tanniyn>, and every living <chay> creature <nephesh> that moveth <ramas>
Ge 1:24 ¶ And God <'elohiym> said <'amar>, Let the earth <'erets> bring forth <yatsa'> the living <chay> creature <nephesh> after his kind <miyn>, cattle <b@hemah>,
Ge 1:30 And to every beast <chay> of the earth <'erets>, and to every fowl <`owph> of the air <shamayim>, and to every thing that creepeth <ramas> upon the earth <'erets>, wherein there is life <chay> <nephesh>,
Ge 2:7 And the LORD <Y@hovah> God <'elohiym> formed <yatsar> man <'adam> of the dust <`aphar> of <min> the ground <'adamah>, and breathed <naphach> into his nostrils <'aph> the breath <n@shamah> of life <chay>; and man <'adam> became a living <chay> soul <nephesh>.
Just a few for you, OK out of possibly 60 references
D So man is no different than a cow – just animal R Very different, we are made in God's image, and our dealings with GOD are recorded, whereas with animals it is not recorded.
D A year ago you believed in Proportional Punishment - belief R Scripture says man is rewarded for their works of loving Jesus, or hating Jesus, but this "Proportional Punishment " does not occur as you allude, it happens when the nephesh is raised to life again
for the wicked, during the second raising of humans.
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Hope this helps
D Agree – Spirit (of God – modifier) = the Holy Spirit – Agreed D The spirit (of man – modifier) is not the HS – it is man’s spirit R Yes I can relate to this idea. However I would call this "man's dealings with God's love", and is recorded by the HS, as a witness to GOD, of you we are, this thing that makes us, you. We can also term this character or 'spirit in man'... but this term requires a Hebrew modifer, so it is not a Hebrew idea on it's own, in a single Hebrew word.
D You are the one who insist that we have no spirit – we are just HS puppets
R you're saying "man has a spirit" is not what the Hebrew modifer is saying.... nor are we HS puppets, it doesn't say that either
Ge 41:38 And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?
Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding
Help me out, reading Hebrew is hard...nobody writes Hebrew exactly as Scripture does
biblehub.com/text/job/32-8.htm
What Hebrew letters are between these word "ruwach and enowsh" ? Its a modifer as I can see...noun space prep-word space noun
"Three words here"
Pr 18:14 ¶ The spirit <ruwach> of a man <'iysh>
wow this one is better for you...
biblehub.com/text/proverbs/18-14.htm
noun space noun no prefix no nothing
but we have to read this as a modifer correct? in Hebrew construct state?
Like Gen 1:2 "ruwach space elohiym" -> "HS of ElohiymPowers"
So Pr 18:14 "ruwach space iysh" -> "HS of man"
Doesn't make sense though in English?
Here is what my Hebrew English translator says:
"The Holy Spirit indites all genuine prayer. I have learned to know that in all my intercessions, the Spirit intercedes for me and for all saints whose intercessions are according to the will of God, never contrary to His will. “The Spirit also helpeth our infirmities,” (Romans 8:26) and the Spirit being God, knoweth the mind of God; therefore in every prayer of ours for the sick, or for other needs, the will of God is to be regarded. “For what man knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11. If we are taught of God, we shall pray in conformity to His revealed will, and in submission to His will which we know not. We are to make supplication according to the will of God, relying on the precious Word, and believing that Christ not only gave Himself for, but to, His disciples. The record declares, “He breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost.” John 20:22"
Here is a different context
"The Lord is not pleased with the spirit or the principles that have a controlling power in the Review and Herald office. The strong spirit of man rules; not the spirit of God. God will not work with their devising. When men get out of the Lord's way, and let Him work upon hearts and minds, blessings will come to them. The fervent prayers, the sincere humiliation, the self-denial and self-sacrifice which blends with the supplications made, will bring down rich blessings."
ANother different context:
"Now the explanation of this wisdom that the world hath not seen, nor heard, nor known: “But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things which are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.” 1 Corinthians 2:10-16.
Hope these help you.
D upon Mortal death – because the Body (Mind/Body) is not immortal – our soul is released and returns to from where it came = God for judgment R the nephesh is not released upon death, once the body dies, the nephesh ceases also.
The thing returning to GOD is ruwach - and ruwach is never termed nephesh?
You can make "dealings with GOD" as a term "spirit of man" but this uses two Hebrew words, ie a modifer as you say. There is NO single Hebrew word for this thing you call you. The nephesh comes to GOD for judgement, not this thing you term you, there is no Hebrew word for this.
D So the promise of eternal life is a lie All of Christianity is a lie Man will never ever live forever – the promise is a lie R no, man puts on immortality... the Hebrew word "chayah" means "ongoing living". As long as you remain connected to GOD in relationship you receive "chayah", ongoing living. Living that never ends. Why doesn't living end? Because you remain partnered to GOD...
D On what level does God empower you D On the level of the sub-atomic – agree D On the level of Chemistry and biology – agree D But you have God or the HS making all your choice for you
R no
Pr 16:9 ¶ A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
You determine you dealings with GOD, but the prayer promises you support daily, comes from Jesus. There if freedom here in this verse? Sure your power comes from Jesus minute by minute, but you do not become a personality clone of Jesus. Your style of loving is different. You choose.
D BUT – when I ask you why your puppet master makes you choose sin – you change the subject GOD tempts no man to sin.... God only tests you if you love him. This Hebrew word is the same here, but one use is the opposite of the other, a common thing in Hebrew words.
bless/ curse tempt/test
Hebrew is a tricky language, with broad meanings in its words too.
tempting you to sin comes from the opposer.
D YES! The Rabbi said LIFE LIVES – and you thought him stupid
R Arrh but "life lives" is GOD only. Matter by itself never lives unless partnered to "living". Once the partnership ends, the partnership ends. The living power goes back to the source.
When you unplug a vaccum, the vaccum dies, but the power in the wall remains. The plug has a broken relationship.
The rabbi is mixing terms, he says the nephesh lives on after the body dies. No so. Its the ruwach that remains once nephesh dies. Unplugged.
D So why does the HS sin? R The HS does not sin while you choose to sin, the HS empowers the energy in you, but you choose to use God's energy to sin, is your business, you will be judged for this abuse of His power.
Notice the way I wrote this sentence.... The HS is merely an agency for HIS power.
Sin means missing anyway. The HS never misses being an agency for you using GOD's power. You do.
Think of YOU, matter connected by wires to GOD. The wires is the agency of the HS. Your dealings with HIS power is recorded daily by the angels and by the HS. Hope this helps you
D You either do not understand the Prodigal Son Or you choose to egnore it – as you ignore a lot of scripture
R OK ... The Father creates two Son with free will to love and be loved. On Son loves from home. The other Son begins sinning. Give me my estate now before you die. The Father is horrified but does. The other Son leaves on a spending spree. Now answer my question, the Son who asked a terrible question, give me my estate now...this is a sin...
Is this loving possible in a perfect world? Does loving also have risk in a perfect world?
R Dave nephesh faces judgement, the entire living energy, why do you split nephesh into parts? D Because the animal does not matter – only the soul matters Don’t be afraid of those that can kill the body Be afraid of those that can kill the soul
R One must be careful with Hebrew idioms Dave, language cultural meanings... what is the context about here? People are fearful of dying... ie their body being killed... but Jesus is saying do not worry about your body, but worry about the GOD who controls your living. Only GOD is living... so if you want eternal living, you have to be straight with GOD, who can give you eternal living. Or GOD can end your nephesh by refusing to remain connected to you.
D 2- God created man with the ability to choose – Prodigal Son D 3- this is a risk – absolutely R so if there is risk in love, absolutely, than in a perfect world of creation, risk exists also in a perfect world. Do you see this idea?
D Satan did not create ra – God did – satan is a facilitator R your beating around the bush... God allows sinning and hence RA to be observed, yes. But GOD never created sin nor RA in a perfect world.
God created angels with love, He has too, because GOD is love. And with love, risk. All in a perfect world.
But Scripture says one angel after trillions of years began pride... opposing relationship.... The Scripture Hebrew has this word for a reason... "oppose" is a verb and a noun. The verb means the action is uncomplete. the noun complete. Pride is opposing relationship. When did this happen? Long ago before man existed, in heaven.
When one Being opposes another Being, they are not friends, but may appear friendly.
The Hebrew word oppose means oppose.
Dysfunction opposes Function. It has too. Why would a mechanic make a perfect car with faults in it? He wouldn't.
Love is a power between relationships. Its relational idea. There is no opposite to love. If you have relationships you do this using love. If you break relationships you do this not using love. When you break relationships, this term is termed in Scripture missing, sin and ra.
This is why the Hebrew word "oppose" exists.
So a Being who is an Opposer, has to be opposing GOD's love concept of relationships to Him.
You strain the idea of ra and sin to be something God also created...and does even...
When pride began in this angel, the Shadday upon request came forth and wisdom changed , so a medium affect (HS) came over the perfect world of GOD, allowing more ra and more sinning to co-exist near the presence of GOD.
How is this achieved? The medium filters out GOD's light, and umbra ra shadows naturally appear, making sin unto death now visible.
God engineers RA and SIN to be observable.
D God loves man so much – He lets them go D Go where? – into the lower world – this world of corporeal pain and suffering – the domain of the archon – THEY WERE HERE FIRST
R no
This is not sourced from Moses hebrew, but your Gnostic greek.
D WHY? – the Christian Ponders the meaning of Life – why am I here – is this tov – this cannot be God’s perfect tov world – this is satan’s domain – therefore satan is a god and satan created the bad stuff BOLOGNY
R that's your choice to follow Gnostic writings, I follow Moses in Hebrew.
D The Jew and the Gnostic know exactly why we are here TO REMEMBER and REVEAL GOD to the entire world as best we can R I doubt a Jew can get this idea from Moses Hebrew alone.
D DUH – God is not a man made of flesh and blood – He is spirit How can elohiym be ruwach? Please explain D Man “the being” is not flesh and blood – man is a spirit being having a physical souljourn Bible text for this idea?
Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (KJV) 16 auto to pneuma summarturei tw pneumati hmwn oti esmen tekna qeou (TR)
The KJV translation is very good is it not?
Notice no modiers here just the same Hebrew word "ruwach"
The ruwach witnesses to my ruwach,
tw pneumati "my ruwach"
D OK – God’s-Spirit collaborates with man’s-spirit D Two different nouns - God’s-Spirit – man’s-spirit
R good try, but your adding modifers here where there isn't any....
It says the HS witnesses to our HS, we are children of GOD. Or since the HS is an agency or medium the agency witnesses to our agency, we are children of GOD. the medium witnesses to our media, we are children of GOD.
Perhaps this is referring to the way our dealings are seen by GOD, we are witnesses.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: .. (KJV) 24 pneuma o qeoV (TR)
D The verse does not say this We worship the Spirt God – in spirit – (HS in nowhere near this sentence) The HS does function as the medium – HS = spirit But this sentence does not indicate this fact in any way
R This phrase has a modifer "o" in TR
The Hebrew would be written as "ruwach space elohiym".
Does Blue Hub show Hebrew in Joh 4:24?
D We worship the Spirt God – in spirit – (HS in nowhere near this sentence)
Doesn't the word "ruwach" exist here?
I think it trying to say Eohiym moves via matter, but not of matter, just as energy moves the air, but is not of air... Hence the flow of the Father comes to us, not of matter, but via matter. Hence the idea of using the term "spirit". The Father flows to us via a medium, not as a Personal Being. We would cease to exist if the Father did come personally to each of us.
Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2020 0:46:54 GMT -5
D You say - We are just HS puppets = therefore the HS is convicting itself R Maybe a simile will help you Your not a puppet on a string, you do truly use the electrical power however you like. This also works for wicked people too, whjo use the power to hurt others, kill others and do RA with the torch.
OK –Who is your – you You say – you are not an individual spirit – you are no more than a cow
Where is scripture does it call animals “Living Beings”?
R Don't you study Hebrew, maybe you lack electronic means to do so? Ge 1:20 ¶ the moving creatures, and fowl Ge 1:21 and every living Ge 1:24 the living creature Ge 1:30 And to every beast of the earth , and to every fowl and to every thing that creepeth, wherein there is life <chay> <nephesh>,
Living creatures, swimming creatures, and fowl = Living Creature
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, Why doesn’t this say a walking living creature instead of something completely different = man Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, So – the image of God is just a cow? – just an animal – God has no more mental capacity as a brain can muster
Why is man different Why do the 70 Jewish Scholars of the LXX – chose the word – human-being
Notice the word two nouns together – one modifying the other “BEING” - human
Ge 2:7 again – the word = human-being In the LXX and in your KJV
D So man is no different than a cow – just animal R Very different, we are made in God's image, and our dealings with GOD are recorded, whereas with animals it is not recorded. Tell me why man is different than the cow Why does your God record your life and not the cow’s
D A year ago you believed in Proportional Punishment - belief R Scripture says man is rewarded for their works of loving Jesus, or hating Jesus, but this "Proportional Punishment " does not occur as you allude, it happens when the nephesh is raised to life again for the wicked, during the second raising of humans. But you say – we wake up to salvation or death Where is time between the final judgment and the lake of fire?
D Agree – Spirit (of God – modifier) = the Holy Spirit – Agreed D The spirit (of man – modifier) is not the HS – it is man’s spirit R Yes I can relate to this idea. However I would call this "man's dealings with God's love", and is recorded by the HS, as a witness to GOD, of you we are, this thing that makes us, you.
So if you are born with a birth defect that makes you a slobbering cripple – So they have no choice to be saved – there bodies are damaged – unable to worship How about little Jimmy – age 2 or 3 – has always been sick enough to have never been anything but a patient All these lost people because of their bodies
R you're saying "man has a spirit" is not what the Hebrew modifer is saying.... nor are we HS puppets, it doesn't say that either
Man has no spirit – and we are not puppets So what part of animal seeks spirituality? Why don’t all animals gather and sing hymms They are animals just like us – no spirit – just nephesh (the ability to think)
Ge 41:38 And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is? Spirit of God in us – HS in us – the comforter – Born Again – spirit to spirit
Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding There is a spirit in man – and the comforter teaching our spirit to spirit
What Hebrew letters are between these word "ruwach and enowsh" ? Its a modifer as I can see...noun space prep-word space noun
Job 32:8 (LXX) ἀλλὰ πνεῦμά ἐστιν ἐν βροτοῖς, πνοὴ δὲ παντοκράτορός ἐστιν ἡ διδάσκουσα· Allah Spirit exist in thunder – wind the universal sovereign – exist the teacher Allah – is a conjunction – like and, also, on the other hand
“But” Spirit exist in thunderous wind – wind of the universal sovereign – exist the teacher But the Spirit of the universal sovereign is a thunderous wind and exist as the teacher As a standalone verse with the context – this is all I would translate I could read into these words – a Presbyterian doctrine or Baptist
But I just let words be words – without my bias
"Three words here" Pr 18:14 ¶ The spirit <ruwach> of a man <'iysh> So Pr 18:14 "ruwach space iysh" -> "HS of man" SEE HERE YA GO Ruwach – means spirit – not HS The spirit of man = man’s spirit – not the HS
Here is what my Hebrew English translator says:
"The Holy Spirit indites all genuine prayer. Genuine prayer – praying in the spirit I have learned to know that in all my intercessions, the Spirit intercedes for me and for all saints whose intercessions are according to the will of God, never contrary to His will. “The Spirit also helpeth our infirmities,” (Romans 8:26)
We only need the HS / Christ as our intercessors – Wrong don’t even like that – born again Christian have a direct communion and the Spirit being God, God is spirit – yes and this Spirit is Holy because it is God = HS If we are taught of God, we shall pray in conformity to His revealed will, and in submission to His will which we know not. Catholic do know God’s Will – He is Love – Feel Good – all that bad stud cannot be God – not allowed Even tho we know NOT – some people place all types of limits upon God We are to make supplication according to the will of God, relying on the precious Word, and believing that Christ not only gave Himself for, but to, His disciples. The record declares, “He breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost.” John 20:22" YES! – to be Born Again – Spiritual Baptisim If we are all just (HS+DNA) – they why the need to receive something that we already have
Here is a different context in the Review and Herald office. The strong spirit of man rules; not the spirit of God. Spirit of man controls man – not the Spirit of God (HS) as you claim
ANother different context: "Now the explanation of this wisdom that the world hath not seen, nor heard, nor known: “But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:11 For who among men knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man, which is in him? even so the things of God none knoweth, save the Spirit of God.
Who among men really know who you are – they know you character or personality Only the spirit knows who you truly are The things of God – does man know them and understand them – NO Only God does – God’s Will / God’s Plan
Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things which are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. Baptism of the HS – to be Born Again – personal Pentecost Then the HS / Comforter will teach us from within
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
YES – you deny the spirit – so how can you spiritually discern anything You think having a soul is foolish
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.” 1 Corinthians 2:10-16.
YES! The Spiritual men are free – Men’s governments cannot govern free men Rome tries really had to stamp out the Jews Rome made the Hebrew language illegal for 350 years Rome made it illegal to be a Jew Then Rome tried to stamp out the First Christians Rome made it illegal to be a Christian YET – Jews and Christians dominate the world – we are still here Free as ever
D upon Mortal death – because the Body (Mind/Body) is not immortal – our soul is released and returns to from where it came = God for judgment R the nephesh is not released upon death, once the body dies, the nephesh ceases also.
The thing returning to GOD is ruwach - and ruwach is never termed nephesh? The thing returning to God is our soul – now free from its body it is free spirit
The nephesh comes to GOD for judgement, not this thing you term you, there is no Hebrew word for this. But you say the nephesh is the HS – therefore it is the HS being judged
D So the promise of eternal life is a lie All of Christianity is a lie Man will never ever live forever – the promise is a lie R no, man puts on immortality... the Hebrew word "chayah" means "ongoing living". As long as you remain connected to GOD in relationship you receive "chayah", ongoing living. Living that never ends. Why doesn't living end? Because you remain partnered to GOD... Man’s animal is mortal – not immortal Man’s spirit is not mortal - immortal
D But you have God or the HS making all your choice for you R no Pr 16:9 ¶ A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
Who is making these choices – you have no spirit – you are just an animal The Lord directs our steps – chooses for us – we are not responsible for our own choices because the Lord directed me to do it
You determine you dealings with GOD, but the prayer promises you support daily, comes from Jesus. There if freedom here in this verse? Sure your power comes from Jesus minute by minute, but you do not become a personality clone of Jesus. Your style of loving is different. You choose.
WHO is the you – all you have is an animal Animals do not make choices to follow the Lord When is the last time you saw a bunch of prey sacrifice to save a predator Why don’t you preach to your cat
D YES! The Rabbi said LIFE LIVES – and you thought him stupid R Arrh but "life lives" is GOD only. Matter by itself never lives unless partnered to "living". There is no life except God The ants are God – Allah is God – Lucifer is God – Judas was God – and all the angels are God
D So why does the HS sin? R The HS does not sin while you choose to sin, the HS empowers the energy in you, but you choose to use God's energy to sin, is your business, you will be judged for this abuse of His power.
Who is the you – you are not an individual being
D You either do not understand the Prodigal Son Or you choose to egnore it – as you ignore a lot of scripture
R OK ... The Father creates two Son with free will to love and be loved. On Son loves from home. The other Son begins sinning. Give me my estate now before you die. The Father is horrified but does. The other Son leaves on a spending spree. Now answer my question, the Son who asked a terrible question, give me my estate now...this is a sin...
Is this what you get from Luke 15? – the whole point is that the son who stayed home was a sinner Sorry Robert = most Christian’s preach the story as:
Confession Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight: I am no more worthy to be called thy son. Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: A broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Mat 8:8 But the centurion said, “Master, I’m not worthy to have You come under my roof. But just say the word and my servant will be healed.
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth quickly the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: Luk 15:23 and bring the fatted calf, and kill it, and let us eat, and make merry: Luk 15:24 for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Luk 15:24 for this my son was dead, and is alive again; Because of sin – we all suffer mortal death – so how can the son be alive again? Althoght we all suffer mortal death – we all do not have to suffer spiritual death
R Dave nephesh faces judgement, the entire living energy, why do you split nephesh into parts? D Because the animal does not matter – only the soul matters Don’t be afraid of those that can kill the body Be afraid of those that can kill the soul
R One must be careful with Hebrew idioms Dave, language cultural meanings... what is the context about here? People are fearful of dying... ie their body being killed... but Jesus is saying do not worry about your body, but worry about the GOD who controls your living. Spiritual destiny
Only GOD is living... so if you want eternal living, you have to be straight with GOD, who can give you eternal living. Or GOD can end your nephesh by refusing to remain connected to you. Here you go – only God is living and he ends Himself Sorry Robert – there are two beings in play here – man and God
When one Being opposes another Being, they are not friends, but may appear friendly. Agreed The Hebrew word oppose means oppose. Agreed – I prefer accuse and have always used accused – but for you oppose
So a Being who is an Opposer, has to be opposing GOD's love concept of relationships to Him. Oppose means oppose – not God’s personal oppose Satan Job in ever situation we discussed – satan opposed man God was satan to Ballam – so God must be your Ha-Satan
You strain the idea of ra and sin to be something God also created...and does even... God created everything THROUGH HIM FOR HIM including the ra and the wicked Do I need to post the verse yet again?
D God loves man so much – He lets them go D Go where? – into the lower world – this world of corporeal pain and suffering – the domain of the archon – THEY WERE HERE FIRST R no - This is not sourced from Moses hebrew, but your Gnostic greek. And yet it has been Jewish theology for 3500 years - strange
D The Jew and the Gnostic know exactly why we are here TO REMEMBER and REVEAL GOD to the entire world as best we can R I doubt a Jew can get this idea from Moses Hebrew alone. And yet it has been Jewish theology for 3500 years - strange
Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (KJV) 16 auto to pneuma summarturei tw pneumati hmwn oti esmen tekna qeou (TR)
Notice no modiers here just the same Hebrew word "ruwach" The ruwach witnesses to my ruwach, tw pneumati "my ruwach" The and my are not modifiers? Hmmmm?
D OK – God’s-Spirit collaborates with man’s-spirit D Two different nouns - God’s-Spirit – man’s-spirit R good try, but your adding modifers here where there isn't any.... Itself and our are not modifiers? Hmmmmm?
It says the HS witnesses to our HS, we are children of GOD. NO IT DOES NOT -you are read your own bias into the words Learn to translate – before you translate – because your argument is 100% NOT CORRECT
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: .. (KJV) 24 pneuma o qeoV (TR) 24 πνεῦμα ὁ Θεός, Greek or Roman Catholic Latin – both = Spirit the God / the God Spirit / Spirit God
D We worship the Spirt God – in spirit – (HS in nowhere near this sentence) Doesn't the word "ruwach" exist here? YES! And ruwach means spirit – that is all – requires a modifier to assign it ownership Man’s-ruwach – God’s ruwach – the only nomenclature difference is that the Spirit of God = Holy = HS
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2020 1:02:37 GMT -5
I do not support reincarnation Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. Elijah lived once before – incarnate - then walked with God Elijah will live again as a man on earth- reincarnate Some have told me this is impossible and is not valid scripture Please explain
|
|