Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 5:00:31 GMT -5
Greetings Dave, seems you have answers for every logical view I throw at you...
You raise another issue, I will digress for a while
Dave writes: " As if salvation had a time limit – and something you must continually seek and acquire
Please tell me I have the wrong impression"
Rob replies: "How do you see salvation than Dave?
Is salvation a daily process with Jesus, or no? Sure Jesus made the process to begin with, died to satisfy law, and guarantees to set me free, etc, but after all this, is there a process for me to respond to His wonderful grace?
Is not salvation a simile of the word, or seed? that must grow daily in Jesus? that you have to support His words growing in you? That you must support His seed promises of power, so daily His powers empower you...?
This is the walk, I do, walking in His power, and this is salvation. Salvation is a Person, the process of walking and growing in His power.
Now where is this highlighted in Scripture?
Ps 72:15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; [and] daily shall he be praised. Ps 86:3 Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily. Da 8:11 Yea, he magnified [himself] even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily [sacrifice] was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. Mt 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread. Ac 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Mt 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. 9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mt 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
I throw in this too. You say the wicked angels know their fate. They know their fate because long ago their war and battles ended. Not as you say they lack free will. They chose to rebel against God.
Humans are different, We were beguiled to sin, while the angels that sinned knew better, but sinned anyway.
This text along with others you ignore, say a similar story.
Here is an interesting prayer:
Ps 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. (KJV)
The translation does not know what to do with "bar" meaning grain, yet calling "Grain" a He. Kiss the Grain, lest He be angry...
Scripture also calls "man" that fell from heaven "a simile of he" as well.
We "Eat" Jesus daily, as grain, from taking his words.
Hosea 14:2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him,....
We sow the words of Jesus and in prayer, using faith, support those words of power, that grow in us.
This is salvation in works, showing that Jesus is indeed saving us daily.
Each of us are saved by Jesus according to our abilities to embrace His powers daily.
All receive a reward based on our abilities as well.
Salvation is primarily a person, who saved us from missing relationships of the divine powers of GOD.
Dave asks: "Every day we must do things to maintain our salvation - keep a law
I would not write it like that. Sounds legalism. God is relational, Jesus paid the price for broken relationships to be restored. Our relationship to GOD is based entirely on Jesus, and thus we grow entirely through Jesus and His power flowing through us. This salvation flows as long as you support Jesus. If you stop supporting Jesus, you fall asleep and lose your salvation experience with Jesus: "I never knew you" to the foolish virgins.
Jesus is relational, the ten commandments are all relational too. So as you partner up to Jesus, you have to respond to His love. This responding happens when you surrender to Him, a process of supporting His words. Such a process is not mere knowledge, but the words of power doing actions, deeds, or works of love towards others.
Notice the ten words:
1) Have no other Saviour but me. Relational 2) Have no other method of saving yourself, but by my methods. Relational 3) Use only my powers, not your powers of self. Relational. 4) Ceasing day. Time is relational. Share my times with you with others. 5) The divine family is relational. 6) The living force comes from us, your living is relational. 7) Respect Relationships. Respect our divine relationship in you. 8) Share my blessings, don't hoard me. 9) Speak truthfully. Witness. Relational 10) Desire the Divine Family. Not creation, Not others.
Everything is relational. But you have programmed ARCHONS doing things that are programmed to do, and angels programmed to do. This violates what is written here. Either we have free will relationships or we don't have free will relationships. You twist free will to mean choosing salvation.... think carefully... a robot programmed has no free will to do anything...its not an intelligent creature to begin with...
Even Alex the parrot had free will to choose and respond to love (I agree not choose salvation, but you narrow and twist the term "choice")
God would not create robotic programmes... this is NOT relational, NOT based on love....
How boring to have archons who just do RA or Tov, but not love. Love is free to do anything, not a program, not predictable. And you have angels too doing this, programmed thing, of praise and tov doing deeds.... must be boring...same old same old... Love is free to do anything, not a program, not predictable.
Question: DO birds sing the same songs day after day with predictable program? Are they truly dumb robots? Alex the grey parrot wasn't.
Or can birds speak intelligently like humans can? What was the pineal gland for? Now shut down since the fall.
So this war in heaven with some angels fighting over other angels? What was this about? Why were the bad angels kicked out of heaven? Where did they go? Why does Jesus say He saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
There are heaps of NT verses that add to the "cherub chata" in the OT, why do you ignore the evidence of them all?
Dave writes/: "The freedom to choose Pepsi or Coke – paper or plastic – be a Doctor or a plumber Has zero to do with the Free Will choice of salvation
OK- I will bite. Your definition of choice is narrow. Choose GOD, or not choose GOD.
If I choose Pepsi or Coke, these things have RA in them. If I choose paper or plastic, these things are made from RA products. If I choose to be a Healer. Jesus is our healer, so your making a career out of RA. If I choose to be a plumber... this is a bit harder to respond to.
If you do RA and choose to do RA things, this is a decision to not choose GOD, has EVERYTHING to do with salvation, yes sir.
God only does TOV in His ideal universe. Our universe had angels at war, sinning, so the universe is no longer ideal. Long before mankind existed in our universe.
Technically speaking everything we do is about choosing GOD or not.
Ro 14:23 for whatsoever is not of faith (support) is sin.
You claim GOD intentionally created TESTERS doing RA to help humans choose TOV. This is ridiculous. A creature in love, doing TOV, does not need testing. If a mechanic built the perfect racing car, it would not need further testing, as its already perfect. It only needs to be enjoyed.
A grand programmer creating humans who love perfectly, do not need further testing, Such an idea implies something wrong with love, or the programmers program. God does not make mistakes.
But you forget one thing. Love is relational. Things relational have risk with them. The person may not choose to remain with you in relationship. This term is called sin.
So love and sin are opposite decisions. Not as you claim RA. Ra is simply a term humans used to describe broken relationships with GOD.
Friction is a broken concept with GOD. In a perfect world friction would not exist. neither would entropy or disorder.
All matter is programmed by GOD, and empowered by GOD. Even dust will stay where God programs dust to stay. No entropy. No RA.
So your Gnostic writings are letting you down saying God creates RA for some intentional purpose... sure in a fallen world GOD might do this, but not in an ideal universe.
Could not GOD picked flowers to live forever without remaining attached to the parent root system? Are not all living things dependent upon GOD? Therefore RA would not exist in a perfect world.
You need to question where RA came from and Why it's here...
You say much about a second Creator... Satan cannot create anything... all things come from GOD...
If an angel sinned, causing a broken relationship and made deception against the Most High, what could GOD do? Love does not wound, is kind, is long suffering, (not 6 seconds of war as you say), etc. So GOD banishes the broken relationships to a void and empty place... why is it void and empty? Because that is what being away from GOD is like.
Where was this place? Earth
Now how does GOD resolve the love now that sin has come, the opposite of love. (Assuming all angels can love, can also not love, therefore sin.)
How does GOD resolve the love problem?
He sets up the earth to become a RA playground for these sinning angels. ( I am not sure I support what I am writing here? )
He sets up contrast of light and dark, He tells Adam and Eve, not to eat one tree. ( we assume they are told of the sinning angels also on earth)
Than one day some 30 years later, Eve is tricked to sin, and Adam chooses to die with Eve, so sins as well.
Now the sinning angels have a universe with a planet of RA, and humans who are slaves to them, so the angels are rulers over them. Now all they have to do is get this established RA world to continue forever.
Did they know that it would not exist forever? Maybe they hope to outsmart GOD in a world of RA.
The war in heaven, now continues as a war on earth.
Re 12:1 ¶ And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Here described the war on earth....
Who is the woman? "a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:" I would say the Holy Spirit.
Re 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Is not Eve a simile of the HS, the mother of living. Is not the HS a "mother of all human relationships"? We also battled over the meaning of the "spirit" that is inside of us.
Re 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Who is this Being? AN opposer, who opposes the HS in child.
Re 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:
This tells you the dragon is an angel, dragging third of angels to earth. Ready to devour the HS in birth of Adam and Eve and future mankind creatures.
Re 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
The woman is also now a simile of the church, children the HS assembles as children of GOD, by empowering them with the breath of salvation.
The child here is Jesus, the child of heavenly parents. His job was to rule the dragon with an iron rod, and defeat the opposer.
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Now the child is given its old name, Michael, and His angels fought. The dragon is given it's old name Satan, the Opposer, and His angels fought. The scene changes from earth to heaven, showing the war started once in heaven, continues on earth.
Re 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down,
And you say the Opposer does not Oppose GOD? What? a war in heaven? a war on earth?
"for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time".
Satan hates God, he knows the RA world will end. He will end.
Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (KJV)
It says the Opposer makes war with supporters of GOD, not testing us, so we learn to do tov.... your reading Scripture differently...
God tests us to see if our daily salvation is supporting Him or no... that is not a war... but if our love response is responding.
The Opposer on the other hand is at war with us...
Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jul 26, 2020 1:21:32 GMT -5
Your Logic – Depends on several Catholic assumptions you hold supreme #1- Your God is only Love – therefore you separate all else into an evil Gnostic / Jewish / Most Christianity – this is only ½ the story #1a – You God of Love CANNOT do any ra – can do no harm directly Gnostic / Jewish / Most Christianity – I asked you to explain how God kills so many people directly I have given you easy examples – The Flood – Sodom and Gomorrah You evade address my questions
#2- instead – your fall back for everything = ‘cherub chata’ – a one verse theology You - because of #1 - Satan must be the bad guy – and anything you do not understand, you blame it on satan You – we all live in satan plan – God’s plan was usurped by satan Gnostic / Jewish / Some Christianity – You are not consistent with the rest of scripture Gnostic / Jewish / Most Christianity – God is absolute – created everything – is in control of everything Ra is part of God’s plan – satan is part of God’s plan – God creates the wicked, because God creates everything
#3 – Free Will vrs Choice Every ‘living creature’ on earth has choice They can choose to turn left or turn right Many have the ability to learn from their surroundings This helps many become crafty – devious – deceptive – and somewhat creative/ imaginative to best serve their survival instinct All Living Creatures = (Mind/Body) – they have a brain! (Intellect)
Man is also an animal (Mind/Body) - we have a brain (Intellect) Man can learn – man can go to college – men can acquire PHds – be called experts Man can learn how to use electricity – even nuclear energy Man can engineer rockets to escape the earth Man can engineer the internet – just so I can ask you
How do any of these intellectual choices – lead to salvation?
Gnostic / Jewish / Most Christianity - No – my friend – none of this leads to salvation The gift to man = The Free Will Choice – to return to God or not
Animals do not have this Free Will Gift Angels do not have this Free Will Gift Archon do not have this Free Will Gift This is exactly what makes man special
Is salvation a daily process? NO! – salvation is a one-time thing – you are saved – or not – there is no such this as sort-of saved - partially saved – or I am more saved than you NO CONDITIONS - we are saved – or Not
Now where is this highlighted in Scripture?
Ps 72:15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; [and] daily shall he be praised. Continuous Communion is the goal - This is about Worship not Salvation Ps 86:3 Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily. This is about Worship not Salvation Da 8:11 Yea, he magnified [himself] even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily [sacrifice] was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. This is about Worship not Salvation Mt 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread. Continuous Communion is the goal - This is about Thankfulness not Salvation Ac 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Continuous Communion is the goal 1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. Paul sins daily because he is an animal trapped within this Contest
Mt 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. 9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Continuous Communion is the goal - This is works of the Spirit
YES! – the archon know their fate YES! – the War in heaven ended long ago – agree The Chief Archon chata / chose SELF / arrogance / with his very first thought / expression Gnostic literature does not say – he considered his choices as Eve did All Gnostic literature says = - his First choice was self
First you say – see angels have free will because they choose to rebel Then you say – Humans are different – we were beguiled – THIS IS AN EXCUSE! And the Catholic excuse = satan violated the rules – satan lied – Eve was tricked
Just an excuse – it was the same choice = chata Both chose chata
We "Eat" Jesus daily, as grain, from taking his words. Continuous Communion is the goal - This is about Worship not Salvation Hosea 14:2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him,.... Continuous Communion is the goal - This is about Worship not Salvation We sow the words of Jesus and in prayer, using faith, support those words of power, that grow in us. Continuous Communion is the goal - This is about Worship not Salvation This is salvation in works, showing that Jesus is indeed saving us daily. Works measured by God – not by man Man may never know the results of his work – whatever it is Sometimes I think of how people ‘witnessed’ to me 50 years ago – I didn’t get it then – I appreciate it now Each of us are saved by Jesus according to our abilities to embrace His powers daily. Salvation is not conditional – no way – totally disagree
All receive a reward based on our abilities as well. OK – Rewards is the flip side of Proportional Punishment
Salvation is primarily a person, who saved us from missing relationships of the divine powers of GOD. Salvation is a person – as in Christ – agree Saves us from making bad choices – I would say – helps us with our choices – as long as we are mortal (Soul + (Mind/Body)) - (Mind/Body) will still make carnal selfish choices
Continuous Communion is the goal - This is about Worship not Salvation
YOU CANNOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION - strongly disagree If you were hot for the Lord in your 20s Then give it up / fall away by the time you are 50 You were never saved – you were never born again – you were a pretending church goer
Scripture is written for man – about man – and the human experience Scripture is not a text book for the angelic realm and the rules that apply there
Science – Eric Weinstein (Ashkenazi Jew) current respected physicist said Unified Field Theory will never be achieved within this dimension Why – string theory exist to explain how sub-atomic particle can disappear from measurable existence Answer – these particles do not disappear – they enter another dimension / level of energy existence Therefore – part of the math exist in those other dimension and who knows what laws hold true there
Are mice robots? – they have the freedom of choice to do a lot of things Are cows robots – they freedom of choice Are you suggesting God cannot make cows or mice as simple robots? Or do cows and mice have the intellect to choose how they follow their instinctive programming
OK – let’s play – my cow is thirsty – he has two choices – Coke or Pepsi How is this ra – is it ra for the cow to drink? How in the world could Coke or Pepsi affect salvation? I get my drinking water by the gallon plastic jug – is this ra? How is any of this RELATED to salvation?
Gee – I wish I had a text book on what it must be like to be an angel or archon Without any evidence – some people ANTROPORMORHPISE the heavens Angel and archon have emotion like men / act like men / respond like men It is all one huge assumption on your part
Question: DO birds sing the same songs day after day with predictable program? Are they truly dumb robots? Alex the grey parrot wasn't. Or can birds speak intelligently like humans can? What was the pineal gland for? Now shut down since the fall. This is all about intellect – not the Free Will Choice of salvation
First there was – Gen 1:2 …darkness ( H2822 - chôshek) was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Why? – because the Chief Archon - forgot God – thought something happened without God This ra cannot stand near God – so it has to far from God – hidden in fire and smoke (matter – earth) Then – Rev 12:7 And war broke out in heaven, Michael and his angels making war against the dragon. Rev 12:8 … there was no longer any place for them in heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down—the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, This ra cannot stand near God – so it has to far from God – hidden in fire and smoke (matter – earth) And – Luk 10:18 And Yeshua said to them, “I was watching satan fall like lightning from heaven. Therefore - Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Bring them on – teach me
#1a – You God of Love CANNOT do any ra – can do no harm directly #2- instead – your fall back for everything = ‘cherub chata’ – a one verse theology You - because of #1 - Satan must be the bad guy – and anything you do not understand, you blame it on satan You – we all live in satan plan – God’s plan was usurped by satan
Sounds pretty stupid to me as well God created everything – part of the creation is ra – also part of the creation is the Chief Archon – just as part of creation are angels – and part is man – and part is matter and some is invisible Do the archon want you to do ra so man will choose tov? This is only a ½ truth – the archon want you to ‘miss’ the Lord anyway they can Do they want you to choose tov? I have no idea what they want? I have only read of their function
There is entropy in dust Maybe not on mans limited scale But on a cosmic time scale – God’s time scale There is entropy in dust
Genesis - Isaiah – Preserves – John – Colossians – and 1st Corinthians = all Gnostic?
Gen 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
]You say much about a second Creator... Satan cannot create anything... all things come from GOD...
If an angel sinned, causing a broken relationship and made deception against the Most High, ... all things come from GOD... except an angel is the initial cause / creator / fater as you say what could GOD do? YES! What could poor weak God do? Love does not wound, Yet – God who = Love according to you – kills entire planets full of people and living creatures Love is kind, is long suffering, (not 6 seconds of war as you say), etc. OH – it is because God Loves Satan and RA that He keeps them near Him in heaven all this time Baloney – As you say – ra cannot stand next to God – it was hidden away into the earth
So GOD banishes the broken relationships to a void and empty place... why is it void and empty? Because that is what being away from GOD is like. You cannot hide from God - God is omnipresent
Where was this place Earth? Written for man – for man’s perspective Earth of Gen 1:2 = all physical creation - this uni-verse (3D) = all galaxies –all solar systems – and we are a small part of that – a very small part Now how does GOD resolve the love now that sin has come, the opposite of love. (Assuming all angels can love, can also not love, therefore sin.) I do not know how to respond to love questions Your love can do no ra My Love dose things – that might look like ra to little bitty man – but on a larger scale – God used it as a tov to save many
( I am not sure I support what I am writing here? ) – I appreciate that But it is hard to expand your mind if you don’t explore - PONDER
This is how I see it Gen 1:1 heavens were invisible places of spirit The First of creation = Christ (the image of God) and H Spirit (Spirit of God) Next of creation – the rest of the heavenly beings (elohiym) = angels – and more Gnostic text also include man – the perfect race of Adamus Jewish (Adamus + Lilith = shedim) Gen 1:1 earth = material 3D corporeal reality = matter – but without form and void Then the Left Hand of God – HS – created an ugly thing
Why was it ugly – because all the elohiym are made of spirit Gnostic literature says The Chief Archon was a blend of matter – therefore it was aborted from the spirit real to the matter realm
In the First Age A lot took place in the invisible heavens – resulting in choshek Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. Because ra / entropy cannot stand in the presence of God Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
Rev 12:7 war = get out of heaven – how long did it take – only God knows Time is not linear
Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it. `
Gen 1:2 - choshek
Speculation – since it is partially made of matter This is why the archon can reproduce and angels of spirit cannot The bane elohiym – the offspring of the Chief Archon The bane elohiym could eventually mate with mortal women The Nephilim are a DNA corruption before the flood The Rephiem are the DNA legacy of the Nephilim after the flood
After “The War” the archon were at home in material creation – 3D reality – this universe + this planet
Humans are their slaves? Only if you choose to subject your selves to them
The Second age / Aion Before the flood – man and archon (bane elohiym) – demigod archon/woman = Nephilim There were multiple species of humanoid – possibly 8 We are homo-sapien – therefore we are of the linage of Noah – Adam = all Homo-sapien All other humanoid species came to an end with the Flood
Before the flood – (bane elohiym) archon and Nephilim Enoch tells us they taught man the art of warfare and weaponry They taught women incantations and potions They experimented with genetic manipulations – chimerias of all types – both humanoid and animal
Before the flood – Beast – behemoth - dinosaurs existed – in very large herds at some locations Dragons – leviathans – sea serpents and winged flying fire breathing dragons of lore
Before the flood – Man – the lineage of Adam COEXISTED with all of this before the flood
Man did not begin as salves to the archon But man sure lost the Contest of the Second age
Only Noah remained pure
You are so full of Catholic evil – everything has to be evil The Neanderthals were not homo-sapien therefore they must be evil
Perhaps – the multiple forms of Nephilim and chimeras have no clue of their role in the cosmos They are making their way in the world the same as man The cows and the tigers coexist – do tigers hate cows? Or just see them as hamburger?
Between man and the archon - Not between archon and God
Re 12:1 - Who is the woman? "- I would say the Holy Spirit. OK Re 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 1- planned to be delivered eventually as the Comforter - OK 2- planned to deliver – Jesus Christ
Didn’t you just go on at great length tll me that God cannot make relationships Now you are telling me that God is the creator of all relationships Conflicting
YES! – this is difference #4 – you do not believe that man has a soul Yes spoke before about praying in the Spirit Yet – you deny the spirit – man is just an animal with memories
The Beast = the Chief Archon – a noun The Chief Archon = an Elohiym – yes – a heavenly being Adam and Eve – interesting –
Third of the stars – does not prove a 1/3 of the angels – could mean something else
Re 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
The man child = Jesus Christ – and the promise of the ahl and eventually in the agl = new heaven and earth But – Jesus Christ was caught up to heaven
OK
1- Jesus is not the baby of father God and Mother Spirit Christ = the Image of God Jesus Christ = (Christ + (Mind/Body))
2- The Jews say – Jesus Christ failed to do this – He was called to heaven before the job was complete – before the promise was complete
Satan hates God, he knows the RA world will end. He will end. So – if he has the same Free Will Choice as man – why doesn’t he repent immediately? Answer – he cannot – Oops! – no Free Will Choice
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 5:04:03 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
Dave writes: "Continuous Communion is the goal - This is about Worship not Salvation Rob writes: " Whats the difference between "Continuous Communion ", "Worship" and " Salvation" ? Explain your terms.
Dave writes: "Salvation is not conditional – no way – totally disagree
Rob writes: " How than does man, respond to salvation than Dave?
If man responds to salvation, our response is variable and therefore conditional... notice this:
Lu 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. (KJV)
She responded more, loved Jesus more.
The gift of Jesus is a single gift, yes. Notice:
Mt 20:2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. 5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? 7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive. Mt 20:10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. Mt 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? 14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? 16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
The gift of salvation happens once to all men who choose salvation,
Is this what your saying? "Salvation is not conditional – no way – totally disagree" I would agree with you here.
But there are rewards to how you use Jesus and his salvation in Him.
Re 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (KJV)
If you respond more to salvation's love, that love flows more in you, so His work in you, is rewarded by Jesus.
Dave writes: "YOU CANNOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION - strongly disagree If you were hot for the Lord in your 20s Then give it up / fall away by the time you are 50 You were never saved – you were never born again – you were a pretending church goer
Rob writes: "How do you know your a pretender?
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
The foolish virgins were lost, they were not pretending to be saved. They fell out of salvation:
Ho 13:5 ¶ I did know thee in the wilderness, in the land of great drought. 6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me.
Dave writes: "I do not know how to respond to love questions Your love can do no ra My Love does things – that might look like ra to little bitty man – but on a larger scale – God used it as a tov to save many
Rob writes: "Interesting. You might be right.
Dave writes: "Didn’t you just go on at great length tll me that God cannot make relationships Now you are telling me that God is the creator of all relationships Conflicting
Rob writes: "All things of God is relational. Man is connected to divinity by the HS, so become a living soul.
The man can talk in his own power. God can talk in His own power. But when the relationship communes, the talking becomes different, more holy and special, because the two entities love each other and respond. This response is not produced by the man only, or by God only, but by the relationship that makes the two become one. So in this sense nobody owns relationship. When you add nails and 6 square pieces of wood together, you make a box. Where did the box come from? Nobody knows. When you remove the nails and separate the wood, the box goes away. Where does the box go? Relationship is like the box, it is the relational stuff of love.
Dave writes: "Third of the stars – does not prove a 1/3 of the angels – could mean something else Rob writes: "You welcome to your world view. I have a totally different view, and Scriptures show me this.
Rob writes: "Satan hates God, he knows the RA world will end. He will end. Dave writes: "So – if he has the same Free Will Choice as man – why doesn’t he repent immediately? Answer – he cannot – Oops! – no Free Will Choice
Rob writes: "Satan lived with GOD a million years before He sinned, saw the Most High face to face, for a million years, but eventually slowly began to sin. Some angels that sinned, did repent, and God took them back. But some that sinned chose to continue sinning, until God kicked them out of heaven. Now no man has seen God face to face, like angels have, so we get more grace than angels did, a second chance.
Scripture has limits on mankind too:
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Dave writes: "This is how I see it Gen 1:1 heavens were invisible places of spirit The First of creation = Christ (the image of God) and H Spirit (Spirit of God) Next of creation – the rest of the heavenly beings (elohiym) = angels – and more Gnostic text also include man – the perfect race of Adamus Jewish (Adamus + Lilith = shedim) Gen 1:1 earth = material 3D corporeal reality = matter – but without form and void Then the Left Hand of God – HS – created an ugly thing
Why was it ugly – because all the elohiym are made of spirit Gnostic literature says The Chief Archon was a blend of matter – therefore it was aborted from the spirit real to the matter realm
In the First Age A lot took place in the invisible heavens – resulting in choshek Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. Because ra / entropy cannot stand in the presence of God Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
Rev 12:7 war = get out of heaven – how long did it take – only God knows Time is not linear
Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it. `
Gen 1:2 - choshek
Speculation – since it is partially made of matter This is why the archon can reproduce and angels of spirit cannot The bane elohiym – the offspring of the Chief Archon The bane elohiym could eventually mate with mortal women The Nephilim are a DNA corruption before the flood The Rephiem are the DNA legacy of the Nephilim after the flood
Rob writes: "Wow. Some many things different to my world view here. I pray and hope our differences do not matter, for we are saved by the light we know and live by. Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jul 27, 2020 14:14:53 GMT -5
I have spent a lot of time with this answer – I mean every word – it is as heart felt as possible
Worship = things people do Pagan ancestors worshipped themselves to death Catholics – point their finger at the Jews and declare – legalism Catholics - makes worship into a communal thing – mandating group attendance – mandating church attendance –
Personal example – Juliet Lermon, a beautiful charismatic Hispanic wife of a good friend. She offered to pray at my wedding – I said sure of course – 15 minutes later we were all wondering if she would ever stop – In Mexico, she crawled 1 mile on her knees to kiss the foot of a Madonna.
Personal example – I know people that don’t go to church every Sun day, but they are always there for Communion
Personal example – I had to sit through a missionary begging the church for money So they could send real cuttings of Italian Grapes to Uganda – just so the new Christians there could have a real communion with wine
Personal example – June Hill, she is the busiest woman I ever met – does the church books, all the cleaning, makes all the coffee, keeps all the notes and minutes, does all the visiting, and is a part of every committee imaginable
Gnostic response – go for it – if that is how you are called – things to do
My Mormon friends will not touch coffee, tea, or cigarettes – it is sinful, because we are the Temple of the Lord – how dare we pollute God’s Temple Yet they eat red meat like crazy and die young of heart disease Every Christian will tell you they child molesters and commit adultery
The Amish will not dance – it is an invitation for the devil The Amish will not let you photograph them – you will capture their spirit
Blah blah blah - We all worship in our own way
My opinion – if you make a vow to God to never drink coke again – then drink coke you are sinning because you are breaking your own vow of limitation If I drink a coke – I might just be thirsty
The question = is your worship for visual reward by your peers – I know so many pompous overly righteous arrogant asses (I mean Christians) Judge away ye perfect Christians
Salvation has nothing to do with the religion of worship
The Jews celebrate the same 6 Holy Days every year for 2500 years From the beginning – I need to atone – God tabernacle with man twice – God is Salvation – 3 celebrations of Passover – then Pentecost 50 days later - over the centuries – some found God
For centuries – Catholics bowed to the Pope - over the centuries – some form God
William Tyndale Was a Priest for years – translated the Bible Exacted after prison - In prison he writes
“I shall be patient, abiding the will of God to the glory of the grace of my Lord Jesus Christ, whose Spirit, I pray, may ever direct your heart. Amen. — W. Tyndale.”
Thank you for killing me as long as it serves God’s greater purpose
Abram was alone in the word – grew up in a different culture - probably being taught a different theology all together – yet – He found God
Gen 26:5 because Abraham listened to My voice and kept My charge, My mitzvot, My decrees, and My instructions.”
How did Abraham know the Torah before it was written – God teaches us in the Womb We all know – Abraham simply remembered
David spent much time with the Lord – in the Wilderness far from any structured religion Psa 51:17 O Lord, open my lips, and my mouth will declare Your praise. 18 For You would not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it, nor be pleased by burnt offerings. Psa 51:19 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit. A broken and a contrite heart,
John the Baptist spent much time with the Lord – in the wilderness far from any structured religion
You are born in full awareness of God Deep inside – you know God – you know what is right and wrong – INSTINCTIVELY These urges by your SOUL pushing toward the truth until (Mind/Body) stops to PONDER your place in the cosmos – and you begin to ask yourself – who am I – why am I here – what is my purpose / mission here - What is the meaning of life
The answers to your deepest questions = there is only One True God Man has the Intellect to understand = there is only One True God Man can even come to BELIEVE
BELIEVE – Now you have people that believe in a One True Creator Belief is not enough – the archon believe – it is not enough
Belief is conditional – Children believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claws Beliefs can change over time – beliefs can change 180* over time
Gnosis is not conditional – Children burn themselves with fire Do they believe fire burns – NO – They Gnosis it burns
All the rest of their lives – no one will ever cause them to doubt that fire burns 100 yrs after learning that original gnosis – you will still not stick your hand into a fire - NO Why not? - because you gnosis it burns – gnosis is a non-conditional fact
There are a lot of Christians that believe in Christ They can be big fixtures within their church – be deacons / elders / leaders / teachers
Then little Jimmy dies – why? Isn’t God Love? Doesn’t God care? As a Christian they may have prayed their ass off As a Christian they may have organized prayer groups – on a global level But – little Jimmy dies – innocent – 3yrs old – a victim of disease – birth defect Some of these BELIEVERS end up blaming God – done with church Doubt – walk away – give up on prayer
Belief is not enough But Are believers saved?
Christianity is mature Judaism – so what would a Jew say All Jews are saved – just because they are Jews – it is a birthright After death – all Jews (Chabad) go through 12 months of PURIFICATION – Proportional Punishment Actually the Jewish system is simple – there is a score board in heaven Mitzvah vrs chata And because we are animal (Mind/Body) we are full of carnal 3D mortal yester ra that chooses chata A ‘Religious Jew’ deliberately dose as many Mitzvah as possible to keep his score up Or – receive the Jewish ‘Divine Pardon’ and go straight to God And – this ‘Divine Pardon’ has nothing to do with birthright – Rahab
Catholics say – only those who profess Mortal Jesus as the Christ before their mortal death are saved All others go to a place called hell for an eternal punishment
Baptist say – all are bent for hell – unless you become saved
SDA evidently – you must make sure you are saved every day – or there will be days when you are not saved
Presbyterians – have the best understanding of ‘Proportional Punishment’ Each Christian is Judged according to his merit Each Christian receives ‘Proportional Punishment’ according to their merit Each Christian receives ‘Heavenly Rewards’ according to their merit And one of these ‘Heavenly Rewards’ = ‘The Jewish Divine Pardon’ Salvation through Christ All the rest suffer in hell – miss the opportunity – awaiting the Book of Life Judgment
Gnostic – salvation = finding your name in the Book of Life in the end Jewish and Gnostic – Enoch wrote all these names in the book – long ago A Calvinist would say – see – we are all predestined Gnostic would agree only on the grandest scale – because God wants us all to return to Him – God is Love But God also has cast man away from God into creation
From God We Came Here in this 3D reality – the physical world – it is our mission to Remember from where we came – and struggle to return to God It is a struggle because we are mortal (Mind/Body) animals
Not only are we mortals living in a physical world – we share this world with others
Our world is exactly as God Wills – it is God’s plan – only God is in control
Animals everywhere waiting to harm us – hail – cold – flood – disease – mortality Archon everywhere – Invisible Terrestrial Entities (ITEs) – invisible archons and angels Islamic Jinn – Catholic Demons – Jewish shedim – Japanese ‘Shades’ - pagan creatures Archon everywhere – visible being ejected to the 7 visible heavenly bodies – UFOs – Watchers Aliens that have always ‘Watched’ us from a distance – ancient astronauts – current day UFOs Archon everywhere – Rephiem – a DNA remnant of the Nephilim – David Ike’s 13 Families that rule the world
We are not alone – we are souljourning through the ‘valley of the shadow of death’
This is the Gnostic Contest
In this Great Contest – it does not say the archons are our direct enemies as if all their focus was on us and us alone Instead – they are called – fellow Contestants (as if they are on a journey of their own) They promote secular reward – wealth, power, and fame – they make it attractive It is our mission to promote God’s Glory to the world – we witness to them as well Eph 6:12
Gnostic salvation – finding your name in the Book of Life How does your name get there 1 - you are born Jewish and believe in YHWY 2 – you are granted a Jewish ‘Divine Pardon’ by YHWY 3 – you become a spiritual descendent of Abraham (Gal) through YHWY
How do you become a spiritual descendent of Abraham? By knowing (gnosis not belief) that Jesus Christ was the Christ and Christ is simply the 3D image of YHWY
Christ = God true belief in Christ = belief in the YHWY – because Christ = YWHY Messianic Jews say this – Gnostics say this – Trinity believing Christians say this But then Catholics have changed Christianity into a different religion with a different God than the Jews
Gnostic - there are three types of Christian #1 Spiritual #2 Ordinary #3 The Lost
#2 The ordinary Christian – believers – and some of these are simply pretenders (to fit in)
On the surface I said – if a man is hot for God at 20 – but falls away – he was only a pretender YES! – I believe this so thoroughly I have taken my girls to many churches all over the country – how many true Christians did we meet? Richard asks – can you be a used car salesman Monday – Saturday and then be a Christina on Sun day
Some Christians believe in the Easter Bunny and Satan Claws – then grow out of that belief Some Christians believe in God – then grow out of that belief Pretenders are giving a false witness = false prophets Pretenders do the Faith more harm than good
Joseph Smith – saw God and Jesus – then wrote Jesus and satan are twin sons – and Jehovah was once a man that perfected himself – and we can all become gods if we work hard enough
Harold Camp – large following – the end time will come 1994 – Oops! And his following grew – end times prediction 11/11/2011 – Oops!
Charles Taze Russell – Jesus will return 1914 Oops! – then 1916 Oops! Then 1925 Million Mans march Million alive in 1925 will never die the rapture is at hand – soon to be another Oops!
The Millerites and the Advent movement – 1834 is the year of The Great Dissapointment – Oops!
All believing Christians – all Worshiping Christians All detrimental to the Faith as a whole – weakening – diluting – polluting – the Gospel The best evidence that Christianity is false is the church And it’s obvious to all – believers and non-believers
YES this group is saved – their names are in the Book of Life - salavtion But only after an appropriate period of Proportional Punishment Each is judge according to his works
BUT – if a man profess Christ – and then lives a life witness pulling others away as well He is punished harder – longer – more intensely – because he knew better It would have been better if he had never known – than to know and disregard
There are many preachers – ministers – priest and popes in hell right now – right alongside Hitler and Stalin.
These preachers and men of God led WORSHIP for thousands – yet – receive Proportional Punishment the same as any sinner
#1 Spiritual Christians = Born Again – recipients of personal Pentecost Believers spend all their prayer live talking to God – one way prayers – from man to God
Spiritual Christian – have a two way prayer life – Sure there are words – but there is also an element of listening – How can God speak to you through the HS – if you never shut up and listen
Example – My Witness a believing Christian can struggle with a passage such as John 1:1-4 for years Don’t get it – seems complicated – over their head Spiritual Christians – suddenly stop struggling with it and just let it speak to them Then suddenly as The Gnosis Christian sits through physics class – and they see God on every page Then Chemistry class and again – there He is – God on every page Then Biology and there He is
I do something different – I go to World history class What do I see – the hand of God – upon nations I study American history and again – it is the hand of God I see I turn on the TV and see some current events – it is the hand of God I see
Continuous Communion – as an animal (Mind/Body) is impossible Even Paul struggled with the guilt of not being perfect
Rom 7:14 For we know that the Torah is spiritual; but I am of the flesh, sold to sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing—for what I do not want, this I practice; but what I hate, this I do. 16 But if I do what I do not want to do, then I agree with the Torah—that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I doing it, but sin dwelling in me (yester ra of (Mind/Body)).
Why does Paul describe his struggle in such detail Because he went from a practicing Jew to a Born Again Christian Now the archon are in his face – just Like Job – look a righteous man
The Gnostic Archon and God Robert has it his theology that satan hates God - is God’s opponent – wars against God Jewish and Gnostic – satan is just an angel assigned to a function – serving the Lord – obeying the Lord
Why do the archon come to the people who move toward piety?
Heb 12:3 Consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you may not grow weary in your souls and lose heart. 4 In struggling against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of bloodshed. 5 Have you forgotten the warning addressed to you as sons?
“My son, do not take lightly the discipline of Adonai or lose heart when you are corrected by Him, 6 because Adonai disciplines the one He loves and punishes every son He accepts.”
Pro 3:12 For Adonai loves those He reproves, even as a father, the son in whom he delights.
God disciplines the ones He LOVES (God is Love) BUT Jas 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”—for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He himself tempts no one.
God disciplines out of love – but God does not do it Himself!
Jas 1:2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 And let endurance have its perfect work, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. 5 But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all without hesitation and without reproach; and it will be given to him.
Consider the ra against you a tov – consider it a joy Thank you God that I am a sinner and need your grace Thank you God for your grace to such a sinner as I
Life is hard – I have had set-backs – financial ruin – recovery and rebirth Thank you God for it being hard – it makes me appreciate what you have given me Thank you God for the archon being in my face everywhere I look Here is our opportunity to allow God’s Glory to shine through us
Endurance comes from Continuous Communion Strength – help – Comfort – from the Comforter You cannot sin – mid prayer –
Can a Gnosis Christian – Born Again – loose his salvation - NO You cannot talk an old man into sticking his hand into a fire – he gnosis – no doubt
Joh 10:29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. And no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
Does a Gnosis Christian endure Proportional Punishment or Receive Divine Pardon? As always – it is up to God This is reaping our Christian Rewards in heaven
The ultimate reward = the Divine Pardon – straight to God – this is the goal – Jewish / Christian / Gnostic Then what is a smaller reward – or partial reward – or no reward? Gnostic answer – reduction in Proportional Punishment time – a reduction in sentence Each is rewarded – or punished – according to their own merit Unless that reward = the divine pardon – death in Christ
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, without any doubting—for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.
Asking in faith – gnosis not belief A belief has doubts – I am a Christian but accept Evolution These doubts – make us look for answers in the wrong places - missing These doubt leads to >2000 “Christian” denominations
Jas 1:7 For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord— Jas 1:8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
Why did little Jimmy have to die – he was innocent – he was 3 yrs old God did not answer prayer Feel Good – God is LOVE ONLY = a failed theology – Bad things still happen to good people
Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you endure. God is treating you as sons—for what son does a father not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline—something all have come to share—then you are illegitimate and not sons.
All in God’s plan – God’s will – God test His people God disciplines those he loves But God does not temp / directly
There is a function for this called satan and his staff But satan is not Ezk 28 The Beast was created in the beginning and spread The Beast and each and every archon regardless of rank can be called a satan, because they are serving that function
All in God’s plan – God’s will –
Gnostic - there are three types of Christian #1 Spiritual – Religious Jews – Born Again – (gnosis) in two-way communion #2 Ordinary – Practicing Jews – believers – churchians #3 The Lost – pretending false prophets – direct false prophets (archon)
Some are ‘predestined’ of sorts Pro 16:4 Adonai works everything out for his own purpose—even the wicked for a day of disaster. Others are ‘predestined’ of sorts – all the names were written in the Book of Life long ago
The mission of man = the meaning of life = our purpose = Remembering our Creator - once we do – we cannot help ourselves – we must share the joy I don’t preach on Sundays or Saturday – I am on 24/7 I wear my yamaka at Christian church – just to make a point
Mar 16:15 He told them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the Good News to every creature. Mar 16:16 He who believes and is immersed shall be saved, but he who does not believe shall be condemned.
We will die – then what – we will return to God and judged – on what? How well we remembered God in everything and how well we shared that to our fellow souljourners His will is that all to be saved – we are Him on earth – Christ in us – indwelling – communion It is our hands that have to reach Our feet must do the walking Our lips must do the praising
We are all witness to the Lord – whether we realize it or not Just as you have been an excellent witness to me
People ask Richard – how can he enjoy such an esoteric fellowship as mine Richard’s response – what can be wrong with two grown men sitting around discussing the Holy Spirit?
Growth comes from many sources
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jul 27, 2020 15:35:03 GMT -5
Rob writes: "How do you know your a pretender? Maybe you don’t – the deceived are deceived
Romans 3:23 ESV For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Man – (Soul + (Mind/Body)) – (Mind/Body) has instinctive yester ra
John 3:16 ESV “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Salvation is a gift
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Worship – your own doing does not = salvation Salvation is a gift
Acts 2:38 ESV And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Salvation is a gift
Titus 3:5 ESV He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness
Worship – your own doing does not = salvation Salvation is a gift
Romans 6:23 ESV For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Salvation is a gift – you cannot worship you way into it
Romans 10:9 ESV - Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
1- confess with the mouth – (Mind/Body) mitzvah 2- believe in your heart – soul - gnosis
Proverbs 3:5 ESV Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. 1- trust with your heart – soul 2- do lean on your own (Mind/Body) Intellect – man-made doctrines
John 1:12 ESV But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Receive Christ and become spiritual children of Abraham
Hebrews 11:1 ESV Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
Faith = gnosis - total assurance in the things hopped for Belief includes doubt – I hope for the thing hopped for
John 14:1 ESV “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.
No doubt - gnosis
Psalm 20:7 ESV Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God.
Trust – gnosis the fire will burn – no doubt – total assurance
Psalm 13:5 ESV But I have trusted in your steadfast love; my heart shall rejoice in your salvation.
Trust – gnosis the fire will burn – no doubt – total assurance
Proverbs 3:6 ESV In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.
Thank you for everything because everything is from God God is just disciplining me – testing me
Psalm 37:5 ESV Commit your way to the Lord; trust in him, and he will act.
Trust – total assurance
Isaiah 40:31 ESV But they who wait for the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.
They who wait – trust – no doubt – total assurance - gnosis
1 Timothy 4:10 ESV For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
Savior of all people - and those who believe Savior of the Proportional Punishment crowd and the Born Again
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 13:53:47 GMT -5
1 Worship = things people do Rob: Interesting heart felt read Dave. Thanks
Actually the Jewish system is simple – there is a score board in heaven Mitzvah vrs chata
Rob: Didn't know this.
Catholics say – only those who profess Mortal Jesus as the Christ before their mortal death are saved All others go to a place called hell for an eternal punishment
Baptist say – all are bent for hell – unless you become saved
SDA evidently – you must make sure you are saved every day – or there will be days when you are not saved
Rob: Salvation is a gift. But you must respond to the gift. A Rescuer rescues from the sea of sinning, but you have to reason, and allow the rescuer to rescue you. You must respond to His love. Your response to His gift, is important to receiving the gift, otherwise there is no evidence you have unpacked the gift and allowed the gift to work in you. But your responding has nothing to earn you salvation, but everything to do with witnessing the gift and it's power germinating in you.
Gnostic – salvation = finding your name in the Book of Life in the end Jewish and Gnostic – Enoch wrote all these names in the book – long ago
Rob: Did Enoch write a scroll? I thought they have perfect memories?
This is the Gnostic Contest
In this Great Contest – it does not say the archons are our direct enemies as if all their focus was on us and us alone Instead – they are called – fellow Contestants (as if they are on a journey of their own) They promote secular reward – wealth, power, and fame – they make it attractive
Rob: Dave you have changed the concept of salvation...are you sure its a contest, rather than a controversy
. I thought the Bible depicts the journey as a war, wth battles, and soldiers, thus we need rescuing.
#2 The ordinary Christian – believers – and some of these are simply pretenders (to fit in)
On the surface I said – if a man is hot for God at 20 – but falls away – he was only a pretender YES! – I believe this so thoroughly I have taken my girls to many churches all over the country – how many true Christians did we meet?
Rob : The hot Supports of Jesus are rare.
The best evidence that Christianity is false is the church
Rob: Explain?
Spiritual Christian – have a two way prayer life – Sure there are words – but there is also an element of listening – How can God speak to you through the HS – if you never shut up and listen
Rob: true
------------------
2 Continuous Communion – as an animal (Mind/Body) is impossible Even Paul struggled with the guilt of not being perfect
Rom 7:14 For we know that the Torah is spiritual; but I am of the flesh, sold to sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing—for what I do not want, this I practice; but what I hate, this I do. 16 But if I do what I do not want to do, then I agree with the Torah—that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I doing it, but sin dwelling in me (yester ra of (Mind/Body)).
Why does Paul describe his struggle in such detail Because he went from a practicing Jew to a Born Again Christian Now the archon are in his face – just Like Job – look a righteous man
Rob: So now it is no longer I doing it, but "sin-offering (chataah)" dwelling in me.
Paul is speaking of the personification of sin-offering, its a Person. Cain was spoken of chattaah too, as a "ruler" that "rules" over you. The same image is the "rulers on a pole" the burning rules, the serpent and Jesus, both on pole, one is the father of salvation, the other the father of lies.
You do not see this.
The day of atonement has the father of lies carrying away the missing from sinners, as the true origin of sinning.
However I see your view with the carnal mind, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. This is another theme too. The propensities in the flesh influence the mind and carry it into sinning. The power of the will sits on the spirit and the flesh, they fight on another. But Paul is speaking of "chataah" here not "flesh" so there are many Hebrew terms along a similar theme. The Gnostic Archon and God Robert has it his theology that satan hates God - is God’s opponent – wars against God Jewish and Gnostic – satan is just an angel assigned to a function – serving the Lord – obeying the Lord
Why do the archon come to the people who move toward piety?
Rob: Because they are trying to be saved, and the opposers hate people getting saved.
Consider the ra against you a tov – consider it a joy Thank you God that I am a sinner and need your grace Thank you God for your grace to such a sinner as I
Life is hard – I have had set-backs – financial ruin – recovery and rebirth Thank you God for it being hard – it makes me appreciate what you have given me Thank you God for the archon being in my face everywhere I look Here is our opportunity to allow God’s Glory to shine through us
Rob: I don't think I would ever pray about Satan. I fight the good fight of support. In my daily life the power of Satan is seldom talked about. My journey is to support Jesus, to unpack the gift of salvation, to respond to His package of love.
Endurance comes from Continuous Communion Strength – help – Comfort – from the Comforter You cannot sin – mid prayer
Rob: True : you cannot miss if your talking to Jesus. I would say support comes from continuous communion
Can a Gnosis Christian – Born Again – loose his salvation - NO
Dave quotes: "Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Rob: DO you understand the Hebrew word here Dave: "emanuah" But ye "emanuah" me not.
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, without any doubting—for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.
Asking in faith – gnosis not belief A belief has doubts – I am a Christian but accept Evolution These doubts – make us look for answers in the wrong places - missing
Rob: Yes, whatever is not of "support" : "emanuah" is missing : sin.
Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you endure. God is treating you as sons—for what son does a father not discipline?
Rob: You confuse discipline with RA. In a RA universe, discipline is necessary to get us supporting God more, such discipline makes living more productive with fruit. I prune my fruit trees so they make fruit, rather than leaves. I do this because if I don't, I don't get fruit to eat. It's got nothing to do with increasing RA. I am responding to my RA world, and using "RA techniques if you will", to make my trees respond properly.
In a perfect world without RA, trees will make fruit without such doings.
All in God’s plan – God’s will – God test His people God disciplines those he loves But God does not temp / directly
Rob: in a RA world, GOD uses "RA techniques if you will", to make His people respond properly.
There is a function for this called satan and his staff But satan is not Ezk 28 The Beast was created in the beginning and spread The Beast and each and every archon regardless of rank can be called a satan, because they are serving that function
All in God’s plan – God’s will
Rob: You making the Ezk 28 cherub who sinned in the Beast? And any archon after that a opposer? Does this Beast have a name?
I don’t preach on Sundays or Saturday – I am on 24/7
Rob: You do support the concept of Sabbath on Saturdays? don't you?
Rob: In your interesting long reply, I am not sure you answered the question.
Suppose a person is drowing in the sea. A strong Rescuer see the person drowing in his sinning. His mother is frantic to alert the Rescuer to go and rescue, but he refuses to dive in. He watches instead. He waits until the drowning has lost all self powers, which might fight the Rescuer, so both drown. And waits. FInally He dives in swims and pulls the helpless one up out of the water to land, reviving him to life again. In this example, the drowning one responded by dying to self. Only than could the Rescuer rescue him properly.
What about a person stuck in a well, and cannot get out. A Rescuer leans over the well and see the person stuck in his sins waist deep. So He reasons with the man to hold onto the rope of faith, which the Rescuer will let down for Him to hold onto. Once both the Rescuer and the sinner hold unto the rope, the rope straightens, and the relationship of the sinner becomes a saint. The rescuer pulls the saint upwards to heaven using the rope of faith. Can the saint declare he is a saint during this process, this journey of rescue? No, should the man let go of the rope of faith, he falls back into the well of death. And the rope becomes crooked again. And the man is lost. Does the man have to show he is responding to the gift of salvation by the Rescuer ? Yes, He has to remain holding firmly to the rope of faith. It is a daily upward process of ever being in relationship to the Saviour of his Soul.
Is there anything the man can boast about? No
Let's suppose after many years of holding the rope, the man has a daily lapse of tied fingers and loses grip on the relationship and falls. Does he fall down into the well again, lost? No
There is a "sin-offering" not unto death. A safety net catches the man should he fall, a covering is set up so the man can recover, and continue his journey of responding to the gift of Jesus. This covering is from Jesus too, He thinks of everything in the Rescue Plan, so the man in his responding is saved in the end.
Shalom my friend
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jul 30, 2020 13:14:41 GMT -5
Rob: In your interesting long reply, I am not sure you answered the question.
Salvation – being saved – easy answer Gnostic – salvation = finding your name in the Book of Life in the end Jewish and Gnostic – Enoch wrote all these names in the book – long ago
Is there more to salvation than this? Your name is in the Book of Life and you evade the Lake of Fire Judgment You were created immortal – you have evaded death – you continue into the next chapter
You are either in the Book of Life or cast into the Lake of Fire – no other option
How do you get saved – become saved – receive salvation? 1 – Jewish birth-right It is the promise to Abraham for being His people The reward for being the 1% - that witnesses YHWY to the 99%* The reward for being hated by the world of men – for the same reason China hate religion* You cannot govern (man’s system) free men* You can enslave the Jews –persecute the Jews - Kill the Jews – but you cannot stop a Jew from being Jewish*
This is also their reward for being the lineage of the Messiah the chosen earth family of God for God’s Son
All through the ahl the Jews faced one Earthly Contest after another Jdg 2:1 … I swore to your fathers. I also said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you. God made a covenant with Israel – walk with me and be victorious Jdg 2:2* Now as for you, you must make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land. In return – Israel is to have no ‘covenants’ – not law* – or governmental* – but religious* You must break down their altars.’ But you have not listened to My voice. What is this you have done? Words are like spirit – they exist but are not tangible God told Eve – don’t eat – they were words Israel (like Eve) let this world (Mind/Body) to ‘choose’ chata missing[/b] Jdg 2:3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out from before you, but they will be thorns in your sides, and their gods will be a snare to you.’” * Both governmental and religious*
Actually the Jewish system is simple – there is a score board in heaven Mitzvah vrs chata Rob: Didn't know this.
All Jews are saved – written in the Book of Life All Jews receive Proportional Punishment – Mitzvah vrs chata Each receives what they deserve – in God’s eyes OR – receive the Jewish Divine Pardon
Modern Judaism – shiva (7 days) + kadish 11 months = A Jews receives ‘Proportional Punishment’ for 12 months tops Gnostic – time is not linear – a day as a thousand years etc etc 12 months of Proportional Punishment might be a long time Gnostic addition is that some may never make it out of Proportional Punishment Regardless of birth-right
Rob: Salvation is a gift. But you must respond to the gift. No you don’t – a gift is a non-conditional transaction Many Jews throughout the ahl did not respond at all – non-practicing
A Rescuer rescues from the sea of sinning, but you have to reason, and allow the rescuer to rescue you. You must respond to His love. Is the story of the scorpion and the turtle a part of Australian folk-lore? The scorpion ask the turtle to ride on his back crossing a stream First the Turtle says – No way – you will sting me The scorpion responds – why would I sting you, I will fall into the stream The turtle agrees – ½ way cross the stream – the scorpion stings the turtle The turtle asked why – the scorpion said – sorry, it is my nature and they both died
Your response to His gift, is important to receiving the gift, otherwise there is no evidence you have unpacked the gift and allowed the gift to work in you. But your responding has nothing to earn you salvation, but everything to do with witnessing the gift and it's power germinating in you. Agreed – God has a function for all of us – we need to listen and let him lead
Rob: Did Enoch write a scroll? I thought they have perfect memories? What is God’s Book of Life? A book – a memory – a something you cannot imagine
This is the Gnostic Contest Rob: Dave you have changed the concept of salvation...are you sure its a contest, rather than a controversy
Is there any other definition for salvation that having your name in the Book of Life The SDA Controversy is 100% Catholic Ezk 28 An angel becomes as powerful as God and takes over all creation – take creation away from God - And weak God is unable to stop this bad angel who hates God – therefore there is a constant war between the two opposing gods – is Catholic myth taken straight out of Zoroasterism . I thought the Bible depicts the journey as a war, with battles, and soldiers, thus we need rescuing. See – war – bad eil – murder and rape you say Gnostic – any misdirection / deception will do Let’s be Mormon – Lets be Jehovah Witness – lets be Islamic – lets be Buddhist - lets be atheist – or lets be ‘I don’t care’ agnostic
It is all equally effective – it all misses
Worship – As a Mormon / Jehovah Witness/ Islamist / or Buddhist / Pagan You can worship as fervently as you choose Worship has nothing to do with salvation
The best evidence that Christianity is false is the church Rob: Explain? How do the publically educated masses see church history?
The church message = God is Good – God cares – God is Love “Feel Good” Christianity – is a failed witness to the world
Kill the Jews, Kill the First Christians, Kill anyone who doesn’t religiously bow to the Pope, 800 years of Crusades - Cathars, - Martin Luther, Tyndall, Protestants – 30 years war – 12 million dead Protestants escaped to America – another 50 million dead Manifest Destiny – the church preached – the only good Indian is a dead Indian Catholics sailed to South America – another 50 million dead Manifest Destiny – God needs your gold in Europe The English came to Australia Manifest Destiny – was it a sin for a white man to kill a pagan black in the eyes of the Australian Church?
Yep – God = church = Love and mercy
How do you get saved – become saved – receive salvation? 1 – Jewish birth-right – and Proportional Punishment + Divine Pardon To be a Jew is to believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob = YHWY (for lack of a better pneumonic) 2- Belief – that Jesus Christ was the Messiah – is the Christ – who is YWHY incarnate Christ is God because God is beyond our comprehension / understanding as limited 3D man Christ = the image of God – Christ is the image of YHWY To believe in Christ = a belief in YHWY Jesus Christ = (YHWY + (Mind/Body)
Gnosticism makes a big difference between belief and gnosis Belief is conditional – gnosis is not Belief is the best intellectual guess – gnosis = fact
#2 The ordinary Christian – believers – and some of these are simply pretenders (to fit in) Pretenders vrs Believers There are many believers who hold their beliefs close until death Even tho this group may have never experienced a Born Again experience – they are rewarded for steadfastness Each rewarded according to their due = Reward / Proportional Punishment
Pretenders – church goers that never change their lives – they go to fit in – in some cases they go for PR (politicians / councilmen/ used car salesmen)
I have been to many church board meetings to argue over money Local Pastor here at Church of Christ makes $1800 a month to preach His wife gets another $1800 a month to lead the women and children Pastor Dave in my old church – will tell you he only makes 10% of the collection each week He brags about it and then passes the hat (Ramona his wife – was always there except when she was in surgery (surgical nurse - $70,000 yr salary) As a church board member I will tell you – we also paid $1500 a month for a house for him – we paid his truck payment of $820 –and we also paid another $700 for his family’s health insurance
Pastor Rex also lived in our mountain area and sometimes filled in for Pastor Dave He was a full time prison missionary at the Federal Super Max Prison 32 miles away by car = 1hr in the mountains Our church gave Rex something like $80-100 a month to support his prison ministry Our church always felt guilty we couldn’t do more in business meetings Later – he approaches my x-wife trying to sell real estate – Pastor Rex wants a second home near the prison – but he tell my wife they can only afford another $2000 a month for a mortgage How many small churches are giving this guy $80-100 a month?
Just as the Roman Catholic Priesthood became filled with the power hungry alpha males of their day – Christian Preaching is a money making big business answerable to governments for financial tax status
Pretender Believers are anyone who is just in it to be a part of the club Pretender Believers who attempt to lead = false prophets = false witnesses – doctrine pushers
False Prophet – pretender believers – are worse off than if they never joined the club The hell of proportional punishment is filled with religious people from all walks
Worship Mat 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Mat 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: Mat 6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
* Believers and believing pretenders
Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Gnostic – this is a big point - praying in the spirit
2 Continuous Communion – as an animal (Mind/Body) is impossible Even Paul struggled with the guilt of not being perfect
Rom 7:14 Rob: So now it is no longer I doing it, but "sin-offering (chataah)" dwelling in me. ? – I would say It is always I / me / myself that makes my own choices – no one makes them for me I can make a Mitzvah or chata choice I can listen to the yester tov of my soul deep within me Or I can respond to yester ra of my (Mind/Body) instinctive drive for survival
Rob: So now it is no longer I doing it, You do not see this. is an excuse – all our choices are our own
Why do the archon come to the people who move toward piety? Rob: Because they are trying to be saved, and the opposers hate people getting saved.
* Reward for being the 1% * Reward of being hated by other men * Reward for being the Linage of Christ * Jdgs 2:2 “other gods” are there – are real Man/Israel did not obey the Lord 100% - man/Israel thought 90% was close enough * Jdgs 2:3 “other gods” are still here – as thorns
Thorns are not attacking you Thorns do not even car you exist – until Man invades thorns space – then they tangle Man invites the attack
Man is on earth – and there are the many thorn bushes we must weed are way through on our souljourn though the Contest on our way back to God
The weeds – God’s design – God’s Will “other gods” – thorns – God’s design – God’s Will Gen 3:15 – God’s Will
* The archon serve a function within God’s plan – God’s Will
Mat 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. This has nothing to do with health, wealth, or prosperity And everything to do with – proveth me oh Lord – discipline me oh Lord – correct me And God has a staff for that - archon Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. PRAISE – If God sends the archon upon me – as God sent satan onto Job – Praise God
Consider the ra against you a tov – consider it a joy Rob: I don't think I would ever pray about Satan.
There is no criticism of the believer that holds his beliefs close For me – these are the cold Christians – steady and sure in their beliefs As long as that belief leads you to Jesus Christ = Christ = YHWY
Luke warm Christians = pretenders
I fight the good fight of support. In my daily life the power of Satan is seldom talked about. My journey is to support Jesus, to unpack the gift of salvation, to respond to His package of love.
I fight the good fight of support – yes you do sand I respect that in you As your brother in Christ I would say you fight a fight to maintain your doctrine which filters your view In my daily life Satan is seldom talked about. – SEE – every day? It is all we talk about is the reality of your Ezk 28 fee willing satan god vrs my Gnostic archon
My journey – YES – I am glad to hear you say that Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Can a Gnosis Christian – Born Again – loose his salvation - NO Dave quotes: "Joh 10:26 Rob: DO you understand the Hebrew word "emanuah" H530 - אֱמֻנָה אֱמוּנָה - 'ĕmûnâh - Feminine of H529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity: - faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily.
There is no criticism of the believer that holds his beliefs close For me – these are the cold Christians – steady and sure in their beliefs As long as that belief leads you to Jesus Christ = Christ = YHWY
Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you endure. God is treating you as sons—for what son does a father not discipline?
Rob: You confuse discipline with RA. All discipline feels like ra
Rob: You making the Ezk 28 cherub who sinned in the Beast? And any archon after that a opposer? Does this Beast have a name? The First Archon cannot be equated with the King of Tyre – doesn’t fit ze 28:12 “Son of man, lift up a lament for the king of Tyre. Say to him, thus says Adonai Elohim: ‘You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. Talking about a man – born as a perfect little baby in full awareness The First Archon expressed ‘self’ with its very first thought – it is its nature Eze 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God. Every precious stone was your covering—ruby, topaz and diamond, beryl, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and emerald—your settings and your sockets a workmanship of gold—in the day you were created they were prepared. This is not a metaphor of a serpent It is a metaphor of th cherub that guarded the gates of Eden – in service to the Lord Eze 28:14 You were an anointed guardian cheruv. I placed you on the holy mountain of God. You walked among stones of fire. The King of Tyre is King Solomon’s #1 ally and friend – could build the Temple without the King of Tyre Eze 28:15 You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you. This is Eve – man – Israel – mankind – the King of Tyre Eze 28:16 By the abundance of your trade they filled you within with violence. So you have sinned. So I threw you out as a profane thing from the mountain of God. I made you vanish, guardian cheruv, from among the stones of fire. Eze 28:17 Your heart was exalted because of your beauty. You corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. I threw you down to the earth. Before kings I set you up as a spectacle. Eze 28:18 “‘By the multitude of your iniquities, in the injustice of your trade, you profaned your sanctuaries.
All works of yester ra – alpha male syndrome of (Mind/Body)
So I brought fire out from within you, and it has consumed you. I have turned you to ashes on the earth in the eyes of all who saw you. Eze 28:19 All who know you among the people will be appalled at you. You have become a horror and will be nothing forever.’” Your satan has become a thing of the past that no one remembers?
I don’t preach on Sundays or Saturday – I am on 24/7 Rob: You do support the concept of Sabbath on Saturdays? don't you? I grew up as a Sun day Christian – I admit it Over the last ten years – I have moved away from “church” participation to a more personal walk I would say a 24/7 walk Over the last 5 years, I have moved to a more Jewish view I try to do a Friday Night Meal with Prayer At times it becomes a family Bible Study – I love it
Remember the Sabbath and Keep it Holy Ponder this – creation took 6 days – then the day of rest – the 7th day Paul says – we can enter that day of rest with Him -
Heb 4:1 Let us fear then! Though a promise of entering His rest is left open, some of you would seem to have fallen short. Heb 4:2 For we also have had Good News proclaimed to us, just as they did. But the word they heard did not help them, because they were not unified with those who listened in faith. Heb 4:3 For we who have trusted are entering into that rest. It is just as God has said, “So in My wrath I swore, ‘They shall never enter My rest,’” even though His works were finished since the foundation of the world. Heb 4:4 For somewhere He has spoken about the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works,” Heb 4:5 and again in this passage: “They shall never enter My rest.” Heb 4:6 So then it remains for some to enter into it; yet those who formerly had Good News proclaimed to them did not enter because of disobedience. Heb 4:7 Again, God appoints a certain day—“Today”—saying through David after so long a time, just as it has been said before, “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.” Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. Heb 4:9 So there remains a Shabbat rest for the people of God. Heb 4:10 For the one who has entered God’s rest has also ceased from his own work, just as God did from His.
When is it not the Sabbath? And Keep every day Holy – continuous communion is the goal
Suppose a person is drowing in the sea OK – does this mean that the survivor appreciates – like – even thanks is rescuer?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 4:33:28 GMT -5
Dave: "You were created immortal Rob: " How can GOD create matter that is immortal? not possible. Matter cannot be immortal, in the sense of living forever without GOD being around. God can make matter put on immortality, in the sense, the matter lives with GOD, in relationship, thus retains immortality because of relationship, that is unbroken.
Dave: "You are either in the Book of Life or cast into the Lake of Fire – no other option Rob: " Correct. so if your wicked, what happens to this immortal soul they once had? or does the wicked also live forever?
Dave:"Actually the Jewish system is simple – there is a score board in heaven Mitzvah vrs chata Rob: Didn't know this.
Dave: "All Jews are saved – written in the Book of Life All Jews receive Proportional Punishment – Mitzvah vrs chata Each receives what they deserve – in God’s eyes OR – receive the Jewish Divine Pardon
Rob: "SO if a Jew is born with an imortal soul, but becomes wicked, how is the Jew saved? I get that people written in the Book of Life are saved....but what conditions causes them to be saved? Your words about Jews sounds like legalism, the Jews do Mitzvah using human SELF strength, and God scores this as "tov" score points. Is this it?
Rob: Salvation is a gift. But you must respond to the gift. Dave: "No you don’t – a gift is a non-conditional transaction Many Jews throughout the ahl did not respond at all – non-practicing
Rob" Hmmm. The gift is a Person. Many assume the person is just a present. But the person is a presence. Man woo their partners as a marriage present. Marriage is not a present of a sexual partner, but a presence of a responding partner of loving.
Salvation is not a present either, as we think of a a gift. The Gift is a divine Person. You must unpack the gift and grow in the gift. Salvation is not a present, but a presence. Marriage is not a present, but a presence.
Many think sin is breaking rules. Sin is breaking off with your presence. Nothing to do with rules per se.
Everything about GOD is highly relational, but you don't see GOD as a family of love. You see this as polytheism. Scripture says loving personalities are one Being, and one flesh, not separate bodies.
When you have a relationship, are you free to do things alone? no, a relationship is truly defined as two becoming one, doing things using the powers of the divine. Not the human using his own powers with the divine, but the human supporting the divine, using divine powers. Salvation is a gift of marriage. It's not a present, but a presence. Its a marriage to the divine forever.
Dave: "A Rescuer rescues from the sea of sinning, but you have to reason, and allow the rescuer to rescue you. You must respond to His love. Is the story of the scorpion and the turtle a part of Australian folk-lore? The scorpion ask the turtle to ride on his back crossing a stream First the Turtle says – No way – you will sting me The scorpion responds – why would I sting you, I will fall into the stream The turtle agrees – ½ way cross the stream – the scorpion stings the turtle The turtle asked why – the scorpion said – sorry, it is my nature and they both died
Rob: "I love that story, wrote a poem for this 40 years ago for kids. Its a great story about true things.
So if Satan is an angel doing God's dirty work, why does this angel finally die in the lake of fire? How can this be?
Rob: "Your response to His gift, is important to receiving the gift, otherwise there is no evidence you have unpacked the gift and allowed the gift to work in you. But your responding has nothing to earn you salvation, but everything to do with witnessing the gift and it's power germinating in you. Dave: "Agreed – God has a function for all of us – we need to listen and let him lead
Rob: "Thanks bro. We agree. Salvation is a seed. A word. a present which when germinates becomes a presence.
It's like getting connected to divinity on a daily basis, talking to divinity, using powers of divinity. It's exciting really, why would you walk in humanity and talk in humanity?
Dave : "The SDA Controversy is 100% Catholic Ezk 28 An angel becomes as powerful as God and takes over all creation – take creation away from God - And weak God is unable to stop this bad angel who hates God – therefore there is a constant war between the two opposing gods – is Catholic myth taken straight out of Zoroasterism
Rob: "Where did this label of Zoroasterism come from? Who wrote this? And how do you know it's true or false?
Dave: "Worship has nothing to do with salvation Rob: " why not?? you define worship as what people do... The Hebrew word for worship means to bend at the knee, bow down. Your mind bows to the divine. How is this not anything to do with the presence of salvation?
I agree, legalism will not get you salvation. Only supporting divinity will.
The difference in these terms is where the power comes from.
Dave writes: "The weeds – God’s design – God’s Will “other gods” – thorns – God’s design – God’s Will Gen 3:15 – God’s Will
* The archon serve a function within God’s plan – God’s Will
Rob replies: Have a look at the first Mitzvah : Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other <'acher> gods <'elohiym> before me <paniym>.
"Thou shall NOT have any other elohiym powers before my face.
Just what is another elohiym power is before the Divine ELohiym?
In the first Mitzvah we have something OPPOSING God. Who is this?
Some earthly power? I don't think so.
Sure we are man a little lower than elohiym, but is a man made god really like a divine elohiym power? I don't think so. Would archons as you define them, intentionally created by God be this opposing elohiym power? No, since God intentionally created these RA creatures.
So do you have an elohiym power opposing GOD Dave, as the first mitzvah demands?
Have a look at the claims of these so called pagan gods.... what did the humans claim of them?
They were supernatural immoral powers, were they not? So what possible elohiym power could fit this description?
Dave:" PRAISE – If God sends the archon upon me – as God sent satan onto Job – Praise God
Rob" You must be kidding. I would never thank God for sending me the so called fake divine opposing elohiym power called Satan, the angel that sinned with other numerous sinning angels. What other creatures could fit, whom mankind worships as heavenly powers?
Rob: "In my daily life Satan is seldom talked about. – Dave: "SEE – every day? It is all we talk about is the reality of your Ezk 28 fee willing Satan god vrs my Gnostic archon
Rob replies: "Your twisting my words my friend. Every day in my prayers I try to support Jesus and talk about Him. I claim the promise Lord lead me not into temptation, but deliver me from all things dysfunctional. Scripture says fight the good fight of support. Never try to change your shadows by fight shadows. The best way to remove shadows is to walk in the light of Jesus.
Sure Satan is the father of sinning, who wrought self powers in my carnal nature, but one should not talk about this. Jesus overcome the fallen nature by supporting His Father. So too I can overcome my problems by supporting Jesus. Change the focus.
Dave: "Over the last 5 years, I have moved to a more Jewish view I try to do a Friday Night Meal with Prayer At times it becomes a family Bible Study – I love it
Rob " Good for you. Praise God.
Dave: "Suppose a person is drowning in the sea OK – does this mean that the survivor appreciates – like – even thanks is rescuer?
Rob: The woman who was forgiven much, loved much, but you Simon, forgiven little, loves little. Who has the real love from Salvation, the Person Jesus? Not all will appreciate the gift, or the joy of communion with GOD. Shalom Happy Shabbat
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jul 31, 2020 11:07:47 GMT -5
Dave: "You were created immortal Rob: " How can GOD create matter that is immortal? not possible.I feel sorry for you if you do not believe in eternal lifeYou think of man as only an animal You are spirit – you were created long before the earth – in heaven with God God knew us in heaven and we were in his full awareness Only later are mated to a (Mind/Body) animal at conception After mortal death – we return to God for judgment Judgment = death or continued existence = eternal life = immortal = not-mortal, but eternal Dave: "You are either in the Book of Life or cast into the Lake of Fire – no other option Rob: " Correct. so if your wicked, what happens to this immortal soul they once had? or does the wicked also live forever?Proportional Punishment applies to everyone without a Divine Pardon Some never become purified = Lake of FireRob: "SO if a Jew is born with an imortal soul, but becomes wicked, how is the Jew saved?A Jew is saved by birthright and judged accordingly in God’s eyes – Mitzvah vrs chata In your yours – Mitzvah = support for God - chata = not supporting God How well did they support God – is a measure of belief – a measure of faith Or is gifted with a Jewish Divine Pardon – Enoch / Elisha
How is a Jew saved – by belief in YHWY – the same as a Christian
Messianic Jews simply recognize that Jesus was the Messiah – the Jewish Divine PardonI get that people written in the Book of Life are saved....but what conditions causes them to be saved?How is a Jew saved – by belief in YHWY – the same as a ChristianYour words about Jews sounds like legalism, the Jews do Mitzvah using human SELF strength, and God scores this as "tov" score points. Is this it? For practicing Jews it was legalism 613 laws to follow – each one a sign of obedience / mitzvah The more they do – the better off they are History – remember the function of the Jew They are the 1% that is to STAND OUT as different as a witness to the 99% of the One True GodEach obedience = a witness to the world Even in captivity – the Jews acted differently Is not Jewish Joseph that witnessed to Egypt Jewish Daniel witnessed to Babylon And through all this legalism – some found God They stopped being practicing Jews and became Religious Jews Joseph – Daniel – Elisa – etc etc etc etc Religious Jews did not do their mitzvah because they had to They did them to Love to lord – to show him love in return through obedience Is Christianity any different How many people go to church – because they think it is socially correct How many people fill the pews – only on Saturday or Sunday How many Christians get lost down doctrinal rabbit holes Yet – through it all – some found God - St Francis Salvation is not a present either, as we think of a a gift. The Gift is a divine Person. You must unpack the gift and grow in the gift. Salvation is not a present, but a presence. OK – I won’t disagree But there are a lot of people who never unpack that gift as you say Many are called – few are choosenMany think sin is breaking rules. Sin is breaking off with your presence. Nothing to do with rules per se. OK – choosing self over God – yester ra wins yeaster tov quiteEverything about GOD is highly relational, but you don't see GOD as a family of love. You see this as polytheism. There is only One God – one – as in 1 I have a hard time seeing 1 as a family of anything 1 is a singularityIn fact man cannot even see this 1 and live But we can experience this 1 as (2) Spirit or as (3) the image of the 1 = Christ So if Satan is an angel doing God's dirty work, why does this angel finally die in the lake of fire? How can this be? I have asked you to address this before – there is a Trinity of evil cast into the lake of fire Answer hereponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/461/trinity-raRob: "Where did this label of Zoroasterism come from? Who wrote this? And how do you know it's true or false?Answer here ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/462/500bc-world-changedDave: "Worship has nothing to do with salvation Rob: " why not?? you define worship as what people do... The Hebrew word for worship means to bend at the knee, bow down. Your mind bows to the divine. How is this not anything to do with the presence of salvation?You can bend you knee to Zeus and Apollo are hard as you canFollowing is being lead – if you are led to do things daily cool for you If you do thing every day because you think you should you are just practicing religion If you are saved – you will worship as your led Have you ever been in a crowd and just felt the need to go up to a stranger to witness At that moment I drive past some hitch hikers – some I feel moved to turn around and pick up My x-wife used to do this thing – she would drop her Bible and whatever page it open to was the study today TRUE STYORYAlvin Miller was a nasty Amish man Given he had a hard life – 3 children were PKU babies and are retarded now Alvin would come to my house to change clothes to go on to strip clubs in South Bend Indiana Then it was time for the Amish Church to choose a new Bishop They take a piece of paper and place it in a hymnal and the children gather all the hymnals (as always) and put them away. The next service (2 weeks) the men tend the livestock – the girls set the table for pot luck after service – the women tend to the kitchen – the older boys set up all the pews and the children’s job (as always) was to pass out the hymnals – one per seat The congregation walks in and sets down – and Alvin Miller became the next Bishop of their church All us English (non-Amish) Mock them for picking Alvin – we know exactly who he is But with a short time – Alvin completely changed How can you stand up from and talk the walk – if you don’t walk the walk This is God’s hand – this is God moving people to do His Will* The archon serve a function within God’s plan – God’s Will Rob replies: Have a look at the first Mitzvah Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other <'acher> gods <'elohiym> before me <paniym>. "Thou shall NOT have any other elohiym powers before my face. Just what is another elohiym power is before the Divine ELohiym? In the first Mitzvah we have something OPPOSING God. Who is this?Opossing God? Robert you are so full of this verse Opposing God hating God – it is all you can seeLook at the First Commandment There are two choices – God or ‘other gods’ God says – choose me – not them Who provides these options for choice – your satan – NO All God’s plan – all God’s willSo do you have an elohiym power opposing GOD Dave, as the first mitzvah demands? NO I don’t – I have God providing us with a free Will choice between two options Dave:" PRAISE – If God sends the archon upon me – as God sent satan onto Job – Praise GodRob" You must be kidding. I would never thank God for (testing me)Then you would blame God – argue with God If you found yourself being burnt at the stake to facilitate God will – you would refuse? Jonah said the exact same thing!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 14:43:24 GMT -5
Dave : "Some never become purified = Lake of Fire Rob: " So again, what happens to this immortal wicked soul, thrown into the Lake of Fire?
Dave: "In your yours – Mitzvah = support for God - chata = not supporting God How well did they support God – is a measure of belief – a measure of faith
NO. No. Self powered humans can do Mitzvah, this does not mean they are supporting God at all. This is called legalism in our world. Or works of the Law in Paul's world.
Supporting God is totally a different idea. This approach does not use self. Self only prays for the promise, but the power of obedience comes from the promise. The will asks for the divine power, and it comes.
Dave: "How is a Jew saved – by belief in YHWY – the same as a Christian What does "belief" mean to you?
Again this is "amenuah" a term you don't understand ... it means support. Faith is not just belief, but asking for God's power to flow through you.
Rob: "Your words about Jews sounds like legalism, the Jews do Mitzvah using human SELF strength, and God scores this as "tov" score points. Is this it?
Dve:" For practicing Jews it was legalism 613 laws to follow – each one a sign of obedience / mitzvah The more they do – the better off they are
Rob replies: Ex 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.
Here is a problem. A big problem. The people do. But not support. They did not understand.
God's reponse? Give them rules of doing.
Dave: "And through all this legalism – some found God They stopped being practicing Jews and became Religious Jews Joseph – Daniel – Elisa – etc etc etc etc Religious Jews did not do their mitzvah because they had to They did them to Love to lord – to show him love in return through obedience
Rob: "you write well here. Yes some found GOD. This system of doing is OK, it makes lukewarm people. The feast of passover means in Hebrew Feast of Hopping Day, when we hop from one ruler (self) to another ruler (YHWH).
Dave:"Is Christianity any different How many people go to church – because they think it is socially correct How many people fill the pews – only on Saturday or Sunday How many Christians get lost down doctrinal rabbit holes Yet – through it all – some found God - St Francis
Rob: " Well said.
Rob: "Salvation is not a present, but a presence. Dave: "OK – I won’t disagree But there are a lot of people who never unpack that gift as you say Many are called – few are choosen
Rob: True many don't... they treat their wife as a present, not a presence. They treat Sabbath as a Present of time, not a Presence with a Person. They view Jesus as a Present, not a Presence Eternally supporting you.
Many love the idea of living forever, but we hate rules over our soul. Therefore we would despise heaven if shown to us.
My brother says God is for weak people.
Yes Self is more powerful than God? Which is more powerful? Pride or humilty? WHich has more power? Meekness or Arrogance? Why is love so weak? Because God loves even the sinner, and turns the cheek, even allows the wicked to kill His own Son. Is love truely so weak? no, One day this love burns with burning passion. Dave: "I have a hard time seeing 1 as a family of anything 1 is a singularity
Rob replies: Your a science person like me. Ever heard of duality?
Can love be manifested in duality? It can only exist in this form. SELF love only exists in missing or a fallen world.
What does duality mean? Two forms of the same thing.
Why does Scripture say many times, the two become echad flesh? Is relationship one? Yes, but requires two personalities, but one source of love. Love requires a provider and a responder. Both become one source. Electricity is not postive flow, nor negative flow, but when both connect we get a single flow. You have a trillion cells that are all separate but unite as one human body. 1 is also a duality.
Rob: "So if Satan is an angel doing God's dirty work, why does this angel finally die in the lake of fire? How can this be?
Dave"– there is a Trinity of evil cast into the lake of fire
The Great Dragon = the Chief Archon of course and he can be called a satan The identity of The Devil who can be called a satan - And the False prophet is harder
OK so why does GOD design RA creatures without no free will, finally throw them into the fire? they did not sin, they can't sin, so why create something and than get rid of that something later?
You speak of "a satan" what happens to the angel, the HA-SATAN? is He saved than forever? a simple Y/N would suffice.
Rob: "Where did this label of Zoroasterism come from?
OK you supply some threads. How do you know it wasn't God's attempt to present truth, but Satan preverted it yet again. Or Satan invented a truth mixed with error before time, on purpose. It does not surprise me, Satan can invent religions to confuse people. How do you know Satan didn't invent Jewish religion too, mixing truth and error? Where does truth come from? Teaching of Moses.
Rob: "So do you have an elohiym power opposing GOD Dave, as the first mitzvah demands? Dave: "NO I don’t – I have God providing us with a free Will choice between two options
"Thou shall NOT have any other elohiym powers before my face."
You don't know what these other elohiym powers are?
There has to be other elohiym powers out there, otherwise GOD would not have said this command?
But you don't know who this is?
It can't be man? It has to be angels? These are the only other creatures from heaven, mankind knows about? You also have archons, but archons were creatures created by GOD without free will. But you also have angels without free will too. So technically for you, there can be no elohiym powers opposing the divine heavenly elohiym, but the first mitzvah, says there is, obviously?
You didn't answer my question... what does mankind who worship pagan gods think they really are?
immortal supernatural beings.... other elohiym powers.... is this idea fiction? Do such beings actually exist and claim this idea?
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Well here is some creature claiming to be like the Most High.... claiming to be immortal, supernatural and divine. An opposing elohiym power.
Dave: "NO I don’t – I have God providing us with a free Will choice between two options
What two options?
Yester ra and Yester tov??? these are not options because they are terms from the same Designer, intentionally designed for humans, how does this develop free will to choose?
In Russia you can vote for parties, communist 1 or communist 2. Some choice. In Australia you can vote for parties, Liberal or Labour, both are Masonic. On earth you can follow many forms of elohiym powers opposing heavenly elohiym.
So the first mitzvah has no other opposing elohiym powers than?
There has to be some heavenly creature claiming this, otherwise it does not fit the verse....
Explain how designing archons to test humans to do ra, while God wants humans to do Tov, is anything to do with "no other opposing elohiym powers than"?
Are you elevating RA as an elohiym power? or Self alone? Where did sin come from? Obviously some other elohiym power claiming to be like the Most High? Didn't Jesus say the Devil is the father of lies? A provider of sinning.
When Nimrod and his wife set up the claim, Nimrod was RA, the Sun-god, who was this a symbol of? God established RA an engineers RA to exist and be seen, but this does not mean GOD does RA or father's RA. God is a simile of the Sun, and the control of creatures seeing RA for the first time.
So if man sets up RA as a sun-god, this claim is opposing GOD directly. Hence another elohiym power. Who else makes this claim?
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Some bright star that fell from heaven.
Doesn't Jesus say who fell from heaven like lightning?
Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jul 31, 2020 20:00:43 GMT -5
Dave : "Some never become purified = Lake of Fire Rob: " So again, what happens to this immortal wicked soul, thrown into the Lake of Fire? DUH! MOCK Rev 20:14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.
Dave: "In your yours – Mitzvah = support for God - chata = not supporting God How well did they support God – is a measure of belief – a measure of faith NO. No. Self powered humans can do Mitzvah, this does not mean they are supporting God at all. This is called legalism in our world. Or works of the Law in Paul's world.
What else did the ancient Jew have? Obey! Yes this is legalism of the strictest sense – but you miss the entire point of being Jewish
Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
The Jews were YHWYs disciples witnessing YHWY’s reality to the entire world God came to the Jews and tabernacle For 40 years God walked and taught the Jews how to be Jews in the Wilderness Once to Canaan – they were the 1% witnessing the reality of the One True God to the world
Christ (the Image of God) came to man – tabernacle with man as Jesus Christ And Christians became the 1% witnessing to the world
God had a very specific plan for the Jews – a very specific task Sheep among the wolves
Supporting God is totally a different idea. This approach does not use self. Self only prays for the promise, but the power of obedience comes from the promise. The will asks for the divine power, and it comes.
You place NT doctrine upon the Jews So why didn’t Moses just become a Born Again Christian And are you saying Elisha was not a Born Again Christian?
Dave: "How is a Jew saved – by belief in YHWY – the same as a Christian What does "belief" mean to you?
Holy Cow – you talk in circles
Again – Gnostics have 3 types of Christians #2 Ordinary Christians are believers If their beliefs = Jesus = Christ = YHWY – then they believe in YHWY If they hold these beliefs through life – they are saved Christians – just according to their deeds If they do not hold these beliefs through life – then ass you say – the archon have stolen your belief
Aslo – in the believer group are the Pretenders – who are mostly false prophets – by mouth or by life example
This group is judge very harshly – false prophet in the Lake of Fire
Again this is "amenuah" a term you don't understand ... it means support. Faith is not just belief, but asking for God's power to flow through you.
Here we are speaking of the #1 type of Christian – a Born Again believer – God’s power flowing through you – the Spirit of the Lord – the HS – the Comforter
Once you have been touched by the Lord – you gnosis – belief become irrelevant – seems childish You are a teacher teaching the retarded that still just believe
This Group is saved and eligible for the highest reward – Divine Pardon
Rob: "Your words about Jews sounds like legalism, the Jews do Mitzvah using human SELF strength, and God scores this as "tov" score points. Is this it? Let’s see – if God instructs you to do something and you obey is it tov? – moving in the direction of tov – and/or pleasing the Lord I say yes
Rob replies: God's reponse? Give them rules of doing. Ex 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. Here is a problem. A big problem. The people do. But not support. They did not understand. This is the nature of being mortal – of being (soul + (Mind/Body) Soul wants yester tov – (Mind/Body) prefers yester ra This is the Contest of our duality
My brother says God is for weak people. - "we are weak but he is strong" - we are all weak Yes Self is more powerful than God? - I would say self gratification = tangible - salvation = hope = non-tangile Which is more powerful? Pride or humilty? WHich has more power? Meekness or Arrogance? Both answers are - it depends In God's eyes - meakness and humility - non-tangible In the eyes of yester ra - pride and arrogance = recognition - tangible
Why is love so weak? Because God loves even the sinner, and turns the cheek, even allows the wicked to kill His own Son. Is love truely so weak? no, One day this love burns with burning passion.
See - he exemplifies the leagcy of roamn Christendom - IF THERE IS A GOD - He must be weak
Love seems weak to the Feel Good love only crowd - even allows the wicked to kill His own Son To a Gnostic or Jew - God loves us so much - that he let us go into this world and we forgot who we are He is alawys there for us whenever we call upon Him - and he is happy when evr we find our way back to him - as a Prodigal Son
Dave: "I have a hard time seeing 1 as a family of anything 1 is a singularity Rob replies: Your a science person like me. Ever heard of duality? As in the 1 is experience / perceived by man as visible male / and invisible female This = the Trinity – not three different beings – only one being God with His’s image and His Spirit What does duality mean? Two forms of the same thing.
Rob: "So if Satan is an angel doing God's dirty work, why does this angel finally die in the lake of fire? How can this be?
Dave"– there is a Trinity of evil cast into the lake of fire The Great Dragon = the Chief Archon of course and he can be called a satan The identity of The Devil who can be called a satan - And the False prophet OK so why does GOD design RA creatures without no free will, finally throw them into the fire? they did not sin, they can't sin, so why create something and than get rid of that something later?
The First Archon – the Chief Archon sinned from its very first thought The Chief Archon original sin caused the choshek of Gen 1:2 The Beast is thrown into the Lake of Fire – Correct
Does not same and all his angels / archon – just him And the Devil – I like Allah for this one False prophets - many
You speak of "a satan" what happens to the angel, the HA-SATAN? is He saved than forever? a simple Y/N would suffice.
There is no such person – God can be a satan – Peter can be a satan – and any angel or archon can be a satan – and each time their name = The Satan
Rob: "Where did this label of Zoroasterism come from? OK you supply some threads. How do you know it wasn't God's attempt to present truth, but Satan preverted it yet again. Or Satan invented a truth mixed with error before time, on purpose. It does not surprise me, Satan can invent religions to confuse people. How do you know Satan didn't invent Jewish religion too, mixing truth and error? Where does truth come from? Teaching of Moses. Truth comes from God and there is all types of truth everywhere
We should study Zorasterism – it is an interesting connection Gods hand upon a pagan religion to serve a greater purpose Daniel was Babylon’s Chief Magi Daniel did not return to Judah Daniel was a very wealthy man – with no heirs Daniel prophesied the 70 weeks to the birth of Jesus 70 weeks later more than 2 Magi show up at the birth of Jesus with Daniel’s treasure
Many Christian Nativity scenes present this as 3 loan Magi alone 600 miles on camel back – with treasure
BS – read the accounts of Josephus – there could have been as many as 300 people in the caravan that brought the Magi – why do you think they reported to the King First?
Rob: "So do you have an elohiym power opposing GOD Dave, as the first mitzvah demands? Dave: "NO I don’t – I have God providing us with a free Will choice between two options You don't know what these other elohiym powers are? The “other gods” are archon - - filling in the void left to the 99% There has to be other elohiym powers out there, otherwise GOD would not have said this command? The “other gods” are archon - - filling in the void left to the 99% But you don't know who this is? The “other gods” are archon - - filling in the void left to the 99% It can't be man? The “other gods” are archon - - filling in the void left to the 99% It has to be angels? The “other gods” are archon - - filling in the void left to the 99%
You didn't answer my question... what does mankind who worship pagan gods think they really are? Did you ask this? Sorry I am sure all Mormons believe Jehovah was once a man that became perfect and live on a plet in the constellation Pleaders I am sure all Muslim believe Allah is the supreme ruler of the gods (His title) For the Gnostic the Supreme leader of the gods (small g) = The Chief Archon And the (small g) gods are just other archon in the ranks – Generals / Captains – ‘sars’- shedim
immortal supernatural beings.... other elohiym powers.... is this idea fiction? Do such beings actually exist and claim this idea? Are all of God’s angels thrown into the lake of fire? Or do they continue? If they continue then they are also eternal - immortal
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Well here is some creature claiming to be like the Most High.... claiming to be immortal, supernatural and divine. An opposing elohiym power.
President Xi of China - Emperor Ito of Japan - Caesar “Augustus” – King of Tyre How many example do you want?
Dave: "NO I don’t – I have God providing us with a free Will choice between two options What two options? DUH – God or not God – and in the void of not God the Archon pretend to be gods In the ahl there are 33 “other gods” by name (33rd Mason?)
Yester ra and Yester tov??? these are not options because they are terms from the same Designer, intentionally designed for humans, how does this develop free will to choose?
Because the soul is the home of yester tov – deep inside – and wants to choose God (Mind/Body) is the home of yester ra – animal – carnal desire and satisfaction
How did the ‘other gods’ do this – this is an interesting story You ask why why why So Ill ask you why – why did God only introduce Himself to 1% of the world’s total population This leaves 99% God less – not formally introduced – and prey for ‘other gods’ There is nothing stopping these ‘other gods’ from toying with the 99% Human sacrifice – Baal and Molech – babies Quetzalcoatl - Human sacrifice – Baal and Molech – babies
If this is not the hand of God – then explain this to me
In Russia you can vote for parties, communist 1 or communist 2. Some choice. Better than China CCP1 and CCP 1 In Australia you can vote for parties, Liberal or Labour, both are Masonic. In America – I am afraid the choice is Nationalism vrs Socialism Wealth fare (hand out) – should be replaced with workfare (pay check)
Welfare started out as an assistance – now it is a right of life style Two types of people – givers and takers Givers dive whatever they choose – takers always want to take more Today – taker want to rule the world and the givers have had enough
On earth you can follow many forms of elohiym powers opposing heavenly elohiym. For me elohiym = heavenly being both good and bad therefore On earth you can follow many forms of earthly archon powers opposing heavenly archon
Eph 6:12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly
So the first mitzvah has no other opposing elohiym powers than? Than the archon
There has to be some heavenly creature claiming this, otherwise it does not fit the verse.... Archon = ‘other gods’ multile being involved
Explain how designing archons to test humans to do ra, while God wants humans to do Tov, is anything to do with (the archon – it is called the great Contest establish for man by GOD because of Eve at Gen 3:15)
Are you elevating RA as an elohiym power? or Self alone? Where did sin come from? Obviously some other elohiym power claiming to be like the Most High? Actually the Chief Archon’s first thought and expression is quoted as
The Hypostasis of the Archons - The Nag Hammadi Library Oening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'.
Didn't Jesus say the Devil is the father of lies? A provider of sinning. Sure – the first lie was the Chief Archon first expression
When Nimrod and his wife set up the claim, Nimrod was RA, the Sun-god, who was this a symbol of? God established RA an engineers RA to exist and be seen, but this does not mean GOD does RA or father's RA. God is a simile of the Sun, and the control of creatures seeing RA for the first time.
Just as Caesar claimed the title Augustus this claim is opposing GOD directly. – REDICULAS Do you think for one moment when Creaser claimed to be God on earth – YHWY felt threatened in any way? NO Was God threatened by Nimrod becoming Tammuz – NO Both of these men were false prophets to their fellow man
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Some bright star that fell from heaven. – Venus - King Cyrus
Doesn't Jesus say who fell from heaven like lightning? The Beast – the Chief Archon – who is a satan
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 1, 2020 15:12:00 GMT -5
OK so why does GOD design RA creatures without no free will, finally throw them into the fire? they did not sin, they can't sin, so why create something and than get rid of that something later? YES! – the question all ‘Feel Good’ Christians ask IF God is only tov / love / mercy – then why? To be a ‘Feel Good’ Christian is to doubt! The archon behind the Catholic Church and Roman Christianity have indoctrinated you well God created man to have a relationship – Because God is Love yet Because God is Love He provided everything necessary for Eve to Sin Then Because God is Love He had to sentence to ETERNAL DEATH But Because God is Love He offers a plan of salvation through Christ Then Because God is Love And in the end – even tho Because God is Love most everyone is going to burn in hell and die a second death OK ‘Feel Good’ Christian - so why does GOD design ‘creature/being’ just to finally throw them into the fire? Because God is love: He makes mortal life a hardship of pain and suffering Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy pain and thy conception; in pain thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Gen 3:18 thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; Gen 3:19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Because God is love: He killed an entire planet of living creatures and men Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. Because God is love: man is not allowed to work together for a common cause Gen 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. Gen 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: Because God is love: most are sentenced to hell and the second death Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Feel Good Christian have no answer for why little Jimmy has to die Feel Good Christian have to blame it on something other than God – must be satan Dave writes: " See – you have two Kings and two godsYes I have two Kings and two gods opposing each other. What's wrong with that? Everything is wrong with that. [/quote] The is only One God
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 16:56:21 GMT -5
DUH! MOCK
Sorry I am not mocking, What happens to the wicked souls thrown into the Lake of Fire? Does the immortal soul created by GOD finally die, or does it remain immortal and live forever in hell?
What else did the ancient Jew have? Obey! Yes this is legalism of the strictest sense – but you miss the entire point of being Jewish
They could have followed Scripture, but chose not to. What does Scripture actually say? Ps 40:6 ¶ Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. (KJV)
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
R Supporting God is totally a different idea. This approach does not use self. Self only prays for the promise, but the power of obedience comes from the promise. The will asks for the divine power, and it comes.
D You place NT doctrine upon the Jews So why didn’t Moses just become a Born Again Christian And are you saying Elisha was not a Born Again Christian?
R This salvation process is an OT doctrine... The Jews never saw it.... Moses was a suppporter of Yashua SO was Elisha a supporter of Yashua
Ge 49:18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.
Could this read: I have waited for thy Yashuah YHWH. Jews do not see a Family ELohiym.
Yet Abraham was told to sacrifice His only and only Son, a typology.
So why didn’t Moses just become a Born Again Christian
Moses was a supporter of Yashua. He spoke to Yashua daily in the tent of meeting.
Ex 23:20 Behold, I send a Messenger before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
Yashua was the Father-YHWH's messenger.
Ex 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.
Anoher typology, Aaron and Moses were family, Yashua and Father-YHWH are family.
This concept of elohym family power has existed all along. Jews do not see this.
Let’s see – if God instructs you to do something and you obey is it tov? – moving in the direction of tov – and/or pleasing the Lord I say yes
Yes but its the way you obey it, not using Self, but praying the words promised, and waiting for the divine power in those words to flow power into you...this is support... Your will is simply you sowing His words, and His power flows, thus you obey. Its not the same as you obey in your own super human strength.
There is no such person – God can be a satan – Peter can be a satan – and any angel or archon can be a satan – and each time their name = The Satan
I see, no Ha Satan huh?
The First Archon – the Chief Archon sinned from its very first thought
Who's this than? just a satan or the satan?
The Chief Archon original sin caused the choshek of Gen 1:2
Who's this than? just a satan or the satan?
The First Archon – the Chief Archon sinned from its very first thought, isn't this creature the first sinner, hence the Satan? But he has no free will, so can't sin, though kills, lies etc. Weird?
There is no such person – God can be a satan – Peter can be a satan – and any angel or archon can be a satan – and each time their name = The Satan
Again you are missing the term oppose. Sinning means to oppose. RA is a dysfunction that opposes function.
If you make RA creatures created RA, without free will, AND
if you make angels with free will, than sinning doesn't exist with them.
So sinning only happens with mankind.
Problem: this is why you ignore "cherub chata".
A war by definition requires free will.
Your the one talking in circles.
There is no OPPOSER.... Really?
He was the father of lies the father of murder from the beginning... jesus says...
Who is this opposer? But you say there is no opposer, therefore no sinning, unless man sins.
The “other gods” are archon - - filling in the void left to the 99%
Inccorect to say this, because GOD intentionally created archons remember?
God would not create an oposing elohiym intentionally.
For the Gnostic the Supreme leader of the gods (small g) = The Chief Archon And yet this Being is NOT "Ha-Satan"....
And now you say The “other gods” are archon
All this is correct, if you allow archons as angels that sinned. But you don't like this idea. WHy not? Its Hebrew.
Are all of God’s angels thrown into the lake of fire?
The ones who sinned are thrown in.
President Xi of China - Emperor Ito of Japan - Caesar “Augustus” – King of Tyre How many example do you want?
These are human. Angels are of heaven. There is a difference.
What two options? DUH – God or not God – and in the void of not God the Archon pretend to be gods In the ahl there are 33 “other gods” by name (33rd Mason?)
Always wanted to know why 33 levels of Masonry.
DUH – God or not God
yes but you have GOD intentionally creating an opposing elohiym power...that is weird...
Dave these archons are sinning angels.
They don't pretend to be gods, they want to be gods and live forever.
They are called stars for a reason. They rule over people as stars. Angelic possession, ie demon prossession is common today as it was in Jesus time.
The chief angel was the first sinning creature.
⦁ R On earth you can follow many forms of elohiym powers opposing heavenly elohiym. D For me elohiym = heavenly being both good and bad therefore R Dave you can't have the heavenly elohym both good and bad....
than you cannot have the first mitzvah, no other eloyjiym powers before my fACE
You have to have an opposing elohiym power? IE bad verses good
Not a power that is both bad and good.
R So the first mitzvah has no other opposing elohiym powers than? D Than the archon R No. You have GOD creating RA creatures intentionally... so this is weird
Jesus said Satan cannot divide against Satan. Therefore GOD cannot divide against GOD.
But you do, if GOD is both bad and good, than yes, God makes Ra creatures on purpose to test man. But is this designed to oppose God? no... its a misleading reading of Scripture...
SO they are no opposers, just do as I tell you to do... this is a dispot. Do as I say...I created Bad, I created Good, I do both. This is your god, a dictator.
There is no sinning here except man disobeying. There is no love either... its a forced choice...
God can kill, but I am not allowed to. God can do lies, but I am not allowed to.
This is unfair and not based on love, but rules of a dictator.
Oening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me".
Your Gnostic writings here is evil my friend, leading you astray.
First God created all angels perfect. Second God gave all angels good jobs to do. Third after a while, no reason given, one angel began sinning.
But your evil writing says otherwise:
First God created all archon imperfect, they made bad thoughts immediately Second God gave archons bad jobs to do. Third after a while, archons began tempting man to do sinning. But archons can do no sinning themselves, they are made to do RA.
R Didn't Jesus say the Devil is the father of lies? A provider of sinning. D Sure – the first lie was the Chief Archon first expression
you missed one point
Jesus said devil is a father of lies, a father of murder... Hebrew ab, provider... This devil is the provider of all sinning...
R Doesn't Jesus say who fell from heaven like lightning? D The Beast – the Chief Archon – who is a satan But not HA-Satan
yet Because God is Love He provided everything necessary for Eve to Sin
It is not necessary to have RA monkeys doing lies, to test Eve to sin....
Because God is love: He killed an entire planet of living creatures and men Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
I want NOT say it like that... when does wounding a person doing RA begin? When he cannot become GOOD.... it would be wounding to let him continue living.... therefore Love must stop RA than, otherwise love does not exist.
Since love does exist, love cannot allow non-love to run without choice. That's how I see this strange act of love.
Love has limits for non-love.
Feel Good Christian have no answer for why little Jimmy has to die Jews asked this question once...
Jesus answer:
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. 4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
Yet Jesus spoke riddles.... "the night cometh, " who is this?
The is only One God Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven
Again you ignore Scripture. Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 2, 2020 2:19:31 GMT -5
Sorry I am not mocking, What happens to the wicked souls thrown into the Lake of Fire? Does the immortal soul created by GOD finally die, or does it remain immortal and live forever in hell? Rev 20:14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. Yes this is legalism of the strictest sense – but you miss the entire point of being Jewish They could have followed Scripture, but chose not to. What does Scripture actually say? - Ps 40:6, Ps 51:10, Hab 2:4 if you doubt the Jews lived by faith – you should really study history or read your scripture No one has been tested /hated / hunted and killed more the Israel – yet they remain
R Supporting God is totally a different idea. This approach does not use self. Self only prays for the promise, but the power of obedience comes from the promise. The will asks for the divine power, and it comes. D You place NT doctrine upon the Jews Ge 49:18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD. Could this read: I have waited for thy Yashuah YHWH.Jews do not see a Family ELohiym. Jews fully accept the duality of God male and female – God the Father and The shekinah Jews were looking forward to Messiah No one knew His name before His birth Yashua was the Father-YHWH's messenger.If you mean to say Jesus was God’s messenger – I so strongly disagree Christ = God = HS Let’s see – if God instructs you to do something and you obey is it tov? – moving in the direction of tov – and/or pleasing the Lord I say yes Yes but its the way you obey it, not using Self, but praying the words promised, and waiting for the divine power in those words to flow power into you...this is support... You are completely incorrect about the culture of the Jewish peopleVery clearly God gave them 613 commanments to follow All of them obviously healthy for them – and a few we are confused about (1 confusing – maybe) The Jews were suppost to act Jewish with all these laws The Jews were supposed to be different The Jewish people were and still are – God people God’s witness to the world that He is the One True GodYou can talk about it as if they should have all left that behind – Don’t do as God tells you – be spiritual Isn’t that what the serpent told Eve – don’t do what God says – do it your way I see, no Ha Satan huh?Five electricians come to work – Dave, Robert, Dillon, Larry, and Jesse Which one is “The Electriction”? The First Archon – the Chief Archon sinned from its very first thought Who's this than? just a satan or the satan?Five painters come to work – Bill, Larry, Frank, Dave, and Robert Which one is “The Painter”? The First Archon – the Chief Archon sinned from its very first thought, isn't this creature the first sinner, hence the Satan? OK – Five satans walk into the room – The Chief Archon, The devil, Beelzebub, God, and the disciple Peter God was balaam’s satan Peter was Jusus’ satan The Chief Archon, The devil, and all the archon / demons = satans Which satan is “The Satan”? Problem: this is why you ignore "cherub chata". A war by definition requires free will.Your shadow experiment Explain to be how darkness has free will and wars against the light The “other gods” are archon - - filling in the void left to the 99%Inccorect to say this, because GOD intentionally created archons remember? So they do not exist – imaginary Or a second god did it – and this second god’s will overrides God’s will And since all these ‘other gods’ are Canaanite gods and today their supreme ruler = Allah So Allah is greater than God – can usurp God’s plan Or these ‘other gods’ are archon from God’s planGod would not create an oposing elohiym intentionally.SEE – you must have a second creator – a second god - to do your dirty workFor the Gnostic the Supreme leader of the gods (small g) = The Chief Archon And yet this Being is NOT "Ha-Satan"....Again – Five drunks walk into a bar – which one is “The Drunk”? Are all of God’s angels thrown into the lake of fire?All we are told = The beast – The devil – and the false prophet Do you have more information?In the ahl there are 33 “other gods” by name (33rd Mason?) Always wanted to know why 33 levels of Masonry.All things are related – because they all support the same base theologyyes but you have GOD intentionally creating an opposing elohiym power...that is weird...Scripture say – God test and disciplines His children Scripture also says – God does not do it directly I say – God has a staff for that – called bad-guy angels And everything they do – they do to facilitate God’s plan You say – no – they hate God and ruin everything and want to take over and life forever You say – satan hates God Then you say – God was satan to Balaam Therefore God hates God Dave these archons are sinning angels.DUH – you finally get that – bad-guy angelsThey don't pretend to be gods, they want to be gods and live forever. Agreed they want to be worshiped like gods and even sacrificed to Again – I ask for scripture to support your – they want to live forever mythologyAngelic possession, ie demon prossession is common today as it was in Jesus time. AgreedThe chief angel was the first sinning creature.The Chief Archon was the first creature to miss - agreedR Dave you can't have the heavenly elohym both good and bad....OH – but you can have a good angel decide to be a bad angel Should I say – it is impossible?R So the first mitzvah has no other opposing elohiym powers than? D Than the archon R No. You have GOD creating RA creatures intentionally... so this is weird That is their functionBut you do, if GOD is both bad and good, than yes, God makes Ra creatures on purpose to test man. But is this designed to oppose God? no... its a misleading reading of Scripture... Does God make both tov and ra – yes Does God make the wicked for the end of days – yes Does God test His people – yes Does God discipline His people – yes James says – God does not do it directly – so how? You say – all this happen by satan because he hates God But – it is just a coincidence that it all works out for God’s Plan Rom 8:28 SO they are no opposers, just do as I tell you to do... this is a dispot. Do as I say...I created Bad, I created Good, I do both. This is your god, a dictator.DIFFERENT APPROACHGnostic text speaks of the perfect race of man My thought game – talking to a pre-school age Christian Sunday School God made earth – and place in it three different animals 1- beautiful white swans – they are peaceful beings – majestic – and continually sing praises to God 2- Man – with choice – between tester ra and yester tov – God or something from within creation 3- and stupid / retarded baboons – that get into everything - ruin everything – and test man’s patience Are the swans ever aggressive – do they ever stop praising – No – it is their nature Will the baboon ever grow up and become civilized? – No – its their nature Man has a choice – join in the praise song of the swan song – or choke those damn baboons till they stop SO they are no opposers, just do as I tell you to do... this is a dispot. Do as I say...I created Bad, I created Good, I do both. This is your god, a dictator.Creatures behave as they are programed – as you say Man is the creature that has the free will ability to choose – his natureThere is no sinning here except man disobeying. There is no love either... its a forced choice...Ants do what they do Snails do what they do Angels do what they do Archon do what they do MAN – has a free will choice Scripture is written for man – about man You are using it as a text book on angels God can kill, but I am not allowed to. God can do lies, but I am not allowed to.WORSEGod can kill and murder – you can kill, but you cannot murderThis is unfair and not based on love, but rules of a dictator.Is God unfair – is God a dictator – YES Why are the rules different for GOD – then for man God Will – is for God’s Plan to unfold as God Wills Question #1 – what is this history of God Plan Israel was set aside as the 1% - then tested, disciplined, tormented, hated, and killed Question #2 – what is the future of God’s Plan Tribulation – Mathew 10 – Revelation – judgement – lake of fire First God created all angels perfect. Second God gave all angels good jobs to do. Third after a while, no reason given, one angel began sinning.So a perfect angel was imperfect – God could not make all angels perfect – God is weak and His creation is imperfectFirst God created all archon imperfect, they made bad thoughts immediatelyI wish you would learn verbs and verbs tense First God created a whole bunch of stuff Then – by the Left Hand – (in a different way) The First Archon was created The First Archon’s first thought and expression – missed God as the creator – correct Then the First Archon had offspring and grew in number Second God gave archons bad jobs to do.God gave all creation jobs to doAngels Gab-briel and Michael have Jobs – assignments – areas of responsibilities Frogs, mice, bacteria, cows, and ants all have a Job to do Man has a job to do – a missionThird after a while, archons began tempting man to do sinning.There are many types of archon – and many types of tempting There are the archon of the church = preach for money – buy a new jet plane – preach there are two gods Archon of the world – deep state – free masonry – Islam – communism – wealth, power, and fame Archon spirits – demons – Jinn – shadow people Archon from the 7 visible heavenly bodies – UDO and aliens But archons can do no sinning themselves, they are made to do RA.I do not have a text book about God’s arrangement with the archon – or the angels If you apply man’s definition to a heavenly being – then maybe they are sinners But does man’s definition apply? Scripture does not say this R Didn't Jesus say the Devil is the father of lies? A provider of sinning. D Sure – the first lie was the Chief Archon first expression you missed one point Jesus said devil is a father of lies, a father of murder... This devil is the provider of all sinning... The First Archon was the First – agreedThe devil is the provider of sinning = please explainDo you mean Before Dave was a Christian Dave is at a cross roads – a decision to make – a choice Dave can choose yester tov – because it leads to mitzvah – which is tov But my soul is buried deep with in – its gnosis was taught / imparted – 66 years ago to a fetus On the other hand – yeater ra is alive and well and scream loudly in my ear Why does yester ra scream loudly in my ear BECAUSE – the archon – strokes ‘self’ – suggests – whispers – self gratification And many of them do it from many different angles R Doesn't Jesus say who fell from heaven like lightning? D The Beast – the Chief Archon – who is a satan But not HA-SatanFive dogs are in my back yard Which one is “The Dog” Because God is love: He killed an entire planet of living creatures and men I want NOT say it like that... when does wounding a person doing RA begin? When he cannot become GOOD.... it would be wounding to let him continue living.... therefore Love must stop RA than, otherwise love does not exist.This is a sermon by 19th century ChristendomIf we kill the Indian or the Black man- we will be prevent more pagans to be born White Christian should kill the Black and the Indian out of Love Feel Good Christian have no answer for why little Jimmy has to die Jesus answer: Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. Perfect – why was ra – that the works of God could be made manifest = tovThe issue is = made manifest to who ? the Blind man only - NO The Blind man and the people of earth – yes The Blind man, the people of earth, and all the heavens - absolutly The is only One God Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heavenGod = Trinity = HS and Christ All angelic beings – good or bad Man -
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 20:24:49 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
R Does the immortal soul created by GOD finally die, or does it remain immortal and live forever in hell?
You didn't answer my question. After 2 posts even. If the soul is immortal, how can an immortal soul be extingusihed in the Lake of Fire for being wicked. Clearly souls are not immortal. Only God is immortal. Wicked angels that sin are not immortal either.
D Jews do not see a Family ELohiym. R yes correct, Jews don't. But a family concept of elohiym has always been there in both OT and NT. See Eph 3:15, 16
D Jews fully accept the duality of God male and female – God the Father and The shekinah R Isn't this a family concept?
D No one knew His name before His birth R Nobody knows the name of G_D either. YHWH is not a name, is a decriptor of "He who exists". Hebrew names are verbs, eg Noah, one who comforts. They are words slightly modified from Hebrew verbs.
Yasha means rescue, comes into many forms, including salvation. Some Jews say prefix-word makes word common, not a Name.
But this also occurs to Noah, Gen 7:1 to-Noah prefix-word, So this comment is silly....
I lack experience with ANcient Hebrew prefix and its use. The hey for example, Jews assume follow moden Hebrew, but what about Ancient Hebrew?
There is a verse in the NT
Lu 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
That word "expounded" is actually "translated"... Why was Jesus translating the Hebrew to these men?
Were both Greek? no, they would be able to read Hebrew, but they read the Hebrew incorrectly. Hence it needed translating.
So in Genesis according to Yasha, is His Name.
R Yashua was the Father-YHWH's messenger. D If you mean to say Jesus was God’s messenger – I so strongly disagree Christ = God = HS R well my friend, we are very different. I follow a family elohiym. You don't have this concept.
The word YHWH has two heys in it, plus a active hand letter and tent peg letter, tells you already there were two "He's that exist" as One Unit. The Hey letter means "behold the Person" Jesus is the active hand of the Father Tent Peg.
D You can talk about it as if they should have all left that behind R I am a spiritual Jew, and I support GOD by guarding all 7000 of those prayer promises of power. Not just 613, but many more. Any one who says we don't have to follow prayer promises of power, is saying we don't have to support GOD...that's silly...support means that.
D don’t do what God says – do it your way R that's what Jews did, they obeyed in human strength You obey by praying the pray promise annd letting His power flow
FOr example when I see a woman, I say in my mind, Lord keep my mind single... Its a prayer promise. One guards the ten commandments of love, in this way.
D Five electricians come to work – Dave, Robert, Dillon, Larry, and Jesse Which one is “The Electriction”?
R Funny...the ancient lettter "Hey" means behold the Person. It means any person functioning as an opposer. You have a term "chief opposer", correct. Other sinners are "other opposes". Any creature that sins is technically opposing GOD. That includes angels, who sin.
D "OK – Five satans walk into the room – The Chief Archon, The devil, Beelzebub, God, and the disciple Peter God was balaam’s satan Peter was Jusus’ satan The Chief Archon, The devil, and all the archon / demons = satans Which satan is “The Satan”?
R the chief opposer, who have been the one creature that sinned first, causing other sinless creatures to sin with him. Angels are different to humans in form and shape, and live inside humans.
Calling Peter an opposer is wrong, Peter was listening to a sinning angel inside him. When God opposed the wicked Baalim, Baalim was respectful, even though Baalim loves sinning, he also made blessings as God flowed through him in vision. Later on Baalim opposed God, telling other how to get Israel to sin, using lusty women.
D The “other gods” are archon - - filling in the void left to the 99% R Inccorect to say this, because GOD intentionally created archons remember? D So they do not exist – imaginary R Since angel exist, your Gnostic statement is wrong, God did not create angels doing RA intentionally. These are sinning angels sinning on purpose to stop mankind choosing GOD, since the sinning angels waant their world, their RA world to exist forever.
D this second god’s will overrides God’s will R NO, God is fully allowing His love to prevail despite the opposing nature of sin God set up a RA world to allow NON-RA worlds to watch sinning in real time. We humans are in a battle, a war on earth, witnessing the conflict of Love GOD or NOT love God.
R God would not create an oposing elohiym intentionally. D SEE – you must have a second creator – a second god - to do your dirty work R God set up a RA world to allow NON-RA worlds to watch sinning in real time.
D Again – Five drunks walk into a bar – which one is “The Drunk”? R the one who got drunk first and fathered other drunks. Epi-genetics. He is THE-DRUNK, the others become drunks. Why did Jesus say He is the Father of lies? because he was the first to speak lies. Before this sin never existed.
D All things are related – because they all support the same base theology R What base theology? I have one for RA and sin, do you? No My base theology is the first sinner who sinned, started this base of sinning. You have no base, no starting of RA and sin. All this was designed by GOD. God is your base for RA, and therefore designed sin to come into being. I say NO. God never designed sin to come into being.
When sin did come however, GOD engineered the RA effects of Sin, so sin could be seen.
Techncially speaking if any creature who was the first to sin, would immediately cease to exist...poof. gone... Suddenly angels would say, where's so and so angel?
God says. gone... no more...
Angels say why?
God says because he sinned... Ra took him...
What is RA angels say?
God says, things that are opposing me, functionally different to me.
Angels say, are there really things different and opposing to you?
God says yes.
So since is relational and sin enters first time, love cannot go poof.
Love is able to strain relationship endure hardship and allow this world of RA come into being... Does love have limits to sinning and RA? Yes there are limits of love.
Love is infinite but RA is not infinite, RA is finite.
Therefore Love will and can destroy RA and makes all things TOV again.
D I say – God has a staff for that – called bad-guy angels And everything they do – they do to facilitate God’s plan
R bad guy angels are sinners and sinning causing RA.
They are at war with GOD and Oppose GOD.
So why does Love sometimes allow bad things to happen to good people?
Like Job for instance...
Job loved God and all of his family also loved GOD, in return God protected Job's family. God boasts this love of Job to an Opposer. The Hebrew says the word is an Opposer.
Notice what the Opposer says:
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. 11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
These are typical words of an Opposer, as the Hebrew word means.
The Opposer opposes Gods claim on Job. Remove your protection and he will curse you.
Now the tricky bit...
The Opposer says something strange:
"put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath,"
The Opposer is asking GOD to touch all Job has... why is this?
Who touches Job later, GOD or the Opposer?
Job 1:16 there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven. When bad things happen, humans blame GOD...
Later on the meeting happens again
"Job still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause."
GOD is saying that the Opposer moved God against Job, to destroy Job witout cause. So who is tthe authority here? God or the Opposer? God is.
So if your in a court room, you respect and obey your higher authority, even if the Hebrew word says your the Opposer.
Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
God allows the Opposer to oppose God move, but not so much to allow Job's death.
When the Opposer kills Job's sons and daughters, who does the killing? God or the Opposer? The opposer does. God sometimes is moved by the Opposer, and sometimes GOD does not move. This Job story allows us to see the war in heaven continues over mankind.
D You say – satan hates God Then you say – God was satan to Balaam Therefore God hates God
R Angelic Opposer opposes divine elohiym Divine elohoym opposes human Baalim, who is wicked and also naturally would oppose God Your last statement cannot be constructed this way.
R Dave these archons are sinning angels. D DUH – you finally get that – bad-guy angels
Well if archons are sinning angels, than angels have free will. Did some in the war in heaven repent and return to GOD, yes perhaps some did But many sinning angels refused, and continue sinning on earth with humans who also sin.
But you have GOD creating angels to sin intentionally... Therefore sin can be designed...(according to you)
But for humans sin is from free will? Now you have two opposing definitions of sin.
Weird.
D Again – I ask for scripture to support your – they want to live forever mythology R Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Does the Most High live forever?
So this sinning star angel wants to be sinning forever, like a Father Star.
What is santa claus? A father star...spelled Satan Claus.
When did this kingdom of the opposer end? When Jesus opposed Him on the Cross and died.
Notice the Hebrew word oppose and opposer can be used for both sides. Jesus opposes the Opposer, and the Opposer opposes Jesus. Both on the pole. The look of support empowers humans differently. Support the oppposer and you die of snake bite Support the rescurer and you live forever. It's all about how you look, what you see. Change your view.
R The chief angel was the first sinning creature. D The Chief Archon was the first creature to miss - agreed
But you have sin designed intentionally by GOD...this cannot be Sin is missing GOD as a defintion. Cannot be designed by GOD. RA is also a function opposing GOD who is perfectly functional. Only when missing happened did GOD sadly and relucntantly also do RA, but Not sin. How is this acieved? The shadow experiment shows how.
RA = dark = sin =shadows =death = lack of light = walking away from GOD
Thats how you get sin appearing. God allows it to be seen.
Are there limits to sin? Yes Absolute zero says Sin has limits.
Is there a limit in the other directon? no
Trillions of trillions of burning is GOD, like a fire of love, an eternal burning.
But absolute zero is hell and sin and RA. A place called a black hole, where nothing exist.
R So the first mitzvah has no other opposing elohiym powers than? D Than the archon R No. You have GOD creating RA creatures intentionally... so this is weird D That is their function R God cannot design sinning functions in creatures. Angels therefore must choose to sin, and therefore have free will to serve GOD.
D Does God make both tov and ra – yes R God make both tov and ra – yes, but only in a RA world
D Does God make the wicked for the end of days – yes R Does God make the wicked for the end of days – yes
D Does God test His people – yes R Does God test His people – yes but only in a RA world
D Does God discipline His people – yes R Does God discipline His people – yes, but only in a RA world
When the NON-RA world is set up once again, there is no more sin, or darkness, or shadows, or friction, or RA of any kind.
D My thought game – talking to a pre-school age Christian Sunday School R God never created animals with such RA behaviours, until man, a creature, SINNED.
D Creatures behave as they are programed – as you say R a perfect programmer is not going to design sinning creatures. a perfect programmer is not going to design shadows a perfect programmer is not going to design friction a perfect programmer is not going to design faulty bits rocks in orbit a perfect programmer is not going to design creatures who are stupid a perfect programmer is not going to design angels sinning
God looked over His creation and said Ge 1:31 ¶ And God <'elohiym> saw <ra'ah> every thing that <'aher> he had made <`asah>, and, behold, it was very <m@`od> good <towb>.
"very <m@`od> good <towb>." two Hebrew words here... Very functional Nothing dysfunctional here.... Yet you gave me thoughts that maybe some dysfunctional elements may be there: Ie a sinning angel as a serpent ie darkness.
D Ants do what they do Snails do what they do Angels do what they do Archon do what they do MAN – has a free will choice R One day you will find we lost of pineal gland ability to talk freely to ants
Remember the grey parrot called Alex, who could talk...? His last words were "will I see you in the morning"?
What is this? A love response.
All creatures on earth have / had this once, some still do. Only man's ruwach is upward... Angels also have free will, because angels can sin. Female mossies suck blood and sin doing this, they do it because no real food around anymore. Their missing is not recorded because their ruwach is downward, not upward, ie the cannot choose salvation. Human sinning has consequences.
R God can kill, but I am not allowed to. R God can do lies, but I am not allowed to. D WORSE- God can kill and murder – you can kill, but you cannot murder
R This is unfair and not based on love, but rules of a dictator.
D Is God unfair – is God a dictator – YES D Why are the rules different for GOD – then for man
R you worship a different god to me, My GOD is LOVE.
God is no dictator, His rules of love makes sense. At times these loves rules seem strange. Love has limits. So living does end. Sinning must end. Allowing sinners to eternally do sinning would be wounding them. Hence sinning must end. All opposers will end. All testing will end.
R First God created all angels perfect. R Second God gave all angels good jobs to do. R Third after a while, no reason given, one angel began sinning. D So a perfect angel was imperfect – God could not make all angels perfect – R you not getting it??
What is a perfect relationship? One that can sin, or one that never can sin? Which is more perfect?
Sin means missing relationship.
A perfect relationship must include the possibility of missing relationship.
D Then – by the Left Hand – (in a different way) The First Archon was created The First Archon’s first thought and expression – missed God as the creator – correct R so you have GOD creating SIN in an angel...
Missing cannot be created in an angel or any creature.
You cannot create a missing relationship.
You can only create a relationship that has the possibility of missing. But the primary purpose of relationship is its eternal connection to GOD. That is what love is.
R But archons can do no sinning themselves, they are made to do RA. D I do not have a text book about God’s arrangement with the archon – or the angels If you apply man’s definition to a heavenly being – then maybe they are sinners But does man’s definition apply? Scripture does not say this
R so you base your salvation experience unpon something you don't really know or can prove from Scripture?
God cannot create sinning angels. God cannot create missing relationships. You can only create a relationship that has the possibility of missing. But the primary purpose of relationship is its eternal connection to GOD. That is what love is. God create angels to love Him, with perfect relationships.
R This devil is the provider of all sinning... R The First Archon was the First – D agreed
The devil is the provider of sinning = please explain
R In every war there is a overall general of command. In Scripture this is
Isa 14:27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
Who is this YHWH as a commander of an army? It is Jesus, also known as Michael, who is like GOD, notice His army of angels
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven:
Michael and his angels fought against the dragon;
and the dragon fought and his angels,
Both are opposers opposing each other. Both generals of an army of angels. Michael and his angels all non-sinning angels The opposer and his angels all sinning angels.
So when you choose missing, you also choose to align with the Opposer who opposes GOD and His love that never does missing.
D Five dogs are in my back yard Which one is “The Dog” R The first dog who did missing, fathering other dogs that do missing through epi-genetics
D If we kill the Indian or the Black man- we will be prevent more pagans to be born White Christian should kill the Black and the Indian out of Love R only GOD can make this decision, since God is living. God gave one people 400 years of hope that one would choose God, but after hundreds of years no one person chose God. So its wounding them to continue allowing them to sin. If God saw a cannibal tribe 400 years make a girl who would choose living in God, than he would allow 400 years of paganism for that one soul He rescues. That's how God's love sees into the darkness. But if no light comes from darkness, than the darkness is removed.
How few would have spared Sodom? 5 How many were there? 4 how straight were there? not really straight Lot's wife looked back, husband was sinner. So maybe 2??
D The is only One God R Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven D God = Trinity = HS and Christ All angelic beings – good or bad
R are you saying family in heaven is GOD + angels + man? That is a secular meaning. What about its true meaning? Is GOD a family? Why are the three names listed here in this verse? Father, Son, and HS? Obviously includes true meaning of family too
Shalom
|
|