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UFO's
Oct 3, 2019 14:00:44 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2019 14:00:44 GMT -5
Greetings my friend, your replies are brief Quote: "I have shared this video with many people - you are the first one not to see theology in it I watched it all the way through, though my connection buffered half way through, I got it all. He spoke very carefully and didn't speak of archons, greys much. Theology? Where does theology come from? only two places: Isa 8:11 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, 12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. 13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. The word confederacy can also be conspiracy. Notice part of Masonic religion (my secular and kind way of describing the Opponents religion, and the hundreds of marketed forms of this same religion) is to create conspiracy theories so people fear and become afraid. Afraid of what? God. What does GOD say here? Don't be afraid, fear Him instead. Fear, like respect God. Many blame GOD for bad things happening. Isa 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence Jesus is our temple our rock, not the fear of Masons, and their archons, etc. Isa 8:15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. Indeed many are deceived in all sorts of ways... Isa 8:16 ¶ Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. Only the true followers are correct witnesses of torah teachings. Isa 8:17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. So instead of fearing Masons, wait upon the YHWH. Isa 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. 19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? Now we have been discussing much of Masonic stuff already, and I get the impression that the "soul" is tortured before reaching a "perfect place" and thus the "soul" is able to "talk" or "communicate" in this "halfway place" between "mortal death" and the "perfect place". Does Scripture speak of this? no, as far as Scripture says, do not entertain what happens to the dead. Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. The primary way to test Masonic ideas is to test them against torah teachings and the witnesses of prophets who write, adding to the torah teachings. In other words, all writings should be in harmony with each other. SO if I got a complete copy of Enoch's scrolls, or Gnostic writings on Creation, all the words in that scroll should line up with the Torah Teachings. Now sometimes some things I have found in the torah teachings do not line up, not because the torah is wrong, but because my understanding is limited. De 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, This verse seems to suggest drinking "strong drink" is OK, why? I don't know...the general consensus of torah teachings is NOT to drink alcoholic drinks?? Otherwise the torah is perfect in it's words and passages. The Hebrew that is. Isa 8:21 And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward. 22 And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness. (KJV) Not sure of the reason for this ending to conspiracy theme? I get the impression GOD uses Masonic religion to wake people up from their darkness? So the video was interesting to listen to, but I already know of such things already in a general sense. The Masonic religion is very real, they have buildings in every town world wide, they practice secret religion. They have an agenda following the orders of the "first-cherub - archon- prince -(Satan) Opponent - serpent, Devil" and his fallen angels, bound on earth. (you do not accept this last line?) Quote: "DUH – you are really groping – why didn’t Mary burn up before Gabriel Well Gabriel is an angel, a creature, not divinity, hence does not come in the fullest burning divinity of Elohiym. And I am not groping. Why say such a thing? How can a supernova brightness of love come near a Being found missing GOD's glory and NOT perish? It can't. The only ever case was Moses saw Jesus back in the OT, but was never allowed to see His face, in the cleft of the rock. Such an encounter with the powers of love from a direct confrontation with Elohiym Divine Family Powers of Love is very real. Not groping at all. How does Scripture teach us how GOD sustains evil without destroying it, immediately? Using the Medium properties of the ruwach. Your saying GOD doesn't need to sustain it because it's a part of GOD anyway, and that the first archon volunteered to administrate the testing to Adam and Eve. So if this is true, why does GOD destroy the chief archon, if he only volunteered to administrate chaos? makes no sense. And as Einstein says, Evil does not exist. It's a spectrum where humans and fallen angels using free will choice CHOOSE to walk away from LOVE. Are there human examples of humans despising people who love them? My brother calls this weak, a crutch. Only the strong survive he says. Many people actually can't stand love, they prefer selfishness and pride. And if GOD gives them a second chance would they want to love? no not ever, not even if they see GOD... now fallen angels have no excuse. But fallen humans do, Hence the Holy Spirit daily speaks to fallen humans (via the conscience) pleading them to walk more in GOD's love, not remain on this dysfunctional medium of less and less of GOD's love. This medium only exists for us today, for a probation time only. Once sin is finally dealt with, chaos will never be seen again. Scripture makes similes and calls followers of GOD as "stars", so compare Gabriel as a white dwarf star to something like GOD a supernova giant. Now bring them towards fallen humans. Is there a difference? I did a sermon on this once on Friday night Sabbath in an assembly. I said we are candle stars for GOD, and most of the students in the private school read their Bibles on their beds by candles, so the image was powerful to them. Than I asked for the room to be switched off. In darkness I switched on a super bright flood light of 2200 Watts, and shone over the candle into the faces of the students and teachers. Talk about a blinding comparison. Notice the difference. That's the difference between an angel like Gabriel and the Father in heaven, one is a creature, the other a Creator, one is Divinity, the other is a reflective Being of love, not a source of love. The difference is huge. Pr 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: Why was wisdom (simile of the Holy Spirit) brought forth, before Creation of earth ever started? To set up a medium affect in which to place earth in, this implies the angels with GOD, that 1/3 of these angels had been found sinning already, and they needed such a medium affect as well long before Earth creation. Scripture is just explaining things a little for us. As a science person you would know mediums do marvellous things to light and the properties of love as well. Love and light are similes of GOD. If you want to read medium affects see this in John, on his statement, there is a sin-offering NOT unto death. spiritualsprings.org/ss-759.htmLet me know what you think of the medium affect Jesus has via the Holy Spirit on us as followers of Him. Quote:" Rob: " The chief archon you speak of that volunteered to test humans so that humans could love GOD more and more. What is his ultimate fate? Does he continue to live forever? Dave: " Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever So please explain, if the chief archon volunteered to administrate chaos and RA, and thus test humans, to follow GOD more fully in His love, why end the chief archon ? So if chaos is a part of GOD, why does chaos also come to an end? Your model of love and loving makes no sense? I agree GOD knows chaos as this is opposite to order, hence He knows hate because it is opposite to love, but GOD moves beyond this state into where He wants to be always, in fullest order and fullest love. The opposite only came into Being because the bright covering cherub wanted to experience this...being without GOD...hence missing GOD...hence sin... Quote ROB" Ge 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. The term "ben elohiym" means what? Do evil things have sex with humans? Dave quote: " Gen 6 never happened? Well the passage does NOT answer anything clearly.. Ge 6:4 ¶ There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. It's saying to me, Adam and Eve were giants in those days, at least 15 feet high we think from digging up bones in the ground from people in Tibet, the term "ben elohiym" refers to "followers of GOD" (never angels) and they chose daughters of men, ie adam and eve's bloodline. And they became mighty in intelligence and power... As a result of sin, the gigantic stature of men diminished over time to the midget six feet we are today. That's how I see this passage. Quote: "Either way – what’s your point my point is Scripture does not equate "ben elohiym" with cherub. Not ever. No scripture that I know of equates angels with elohiym. Angels only serve GOD, they are not powers like GOD. The Hebrew word for Greek archon is "sar" prince. not a Being before eternity. The chief cherub that sinned BECAME an archon over earth, when Archon Adam sinned, thus there was a change of rulership. Ro 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. katakrima is Greek, a court declaration that one prince fell and other prince reigned. Hence in Job we see Satan come as prince of earth, Adam the prince had fallen. His crown was lost. That's what I see from Scripture. When it speaks of "ben elohiym" meeting with GOD in Job, it must mean other princes of unfallen worlds meet with GOD on occasions. And Satan met alos because he became a prince of earth. This term is found in the NT were Jesus speaks to overpowering the archon of earth, it's just a term for the "prince of earth", and now the "prince of earth" is now Jesus, also a human, also divine. He is also an archon as well. He is the only reminder of chaos for eternity. And if anybody asks the dumb question, like Lucifer did, what is chaos like, the scars on Jesus human form answers that question. Who would want to experience this ever again. It's gone forever. Chaos is not about love, but is was fullest-love and came to buy us humans back from chaos. Hence Jesus died an infinite sacrifice. He now shows what love is not (scars) and what fullest love is (redeemed praise Him forever). Nothing else remains of sin, thus Satan and archons and fallen angels are in a state of zero, nothing remains of them. Shalom my friend You see this model of yours affects our definition of love and hence our definition of sin and thus our reason for a saviour saving us from sin. So if we can't see harmony here, can I ask you a different but related question, more important to my heart, what is sin? My Jewish forum never answered this at all. In fact do Jews have a concept of sin? Where did sin come from? What does Gnostic teaching say about sin and its origin. And purpose. And solution. Perhaps begin on a new thread?
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UFO's
Oct 4, 2019 22:05:06 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 22:05:06 GMT -5
Happy Sabbath Dave, I will try to write more cheerfully to you, though we seem to have differences of opinion. However I am still your friend. I hope you are not exhausted by discussion, for the teachings of GOD help us ponder confusion.
I went over this entire thread about UFO's, reading it all over again, listening more and trying to understand who you are in the journey you have experienced, and I see many things we have harmony between us. I will attempt to show these now to you:-
Quote: "Do I believe in GOD? I really really want to believe but GOD makes me angry.
Dave:" THIS IS MY LIFE !!!! No one has been more pissed at God than me. Being a manic depressive has been - still is - a huge issue in my life. It was the demons in my life that forced my belief in God. If you believe in one side of the story - you have to believe in the other side.
Rob: "Yes the devil has ruined my life too. Of my 5 children only 2 speak to me, the others I have lost forever. Our tragedy is seen as all my fault. They are right because they were kids and I was their protector and I failed to protect them. And so our ten missionary years came to an abrupt end, the church took us away because our lives were threatened, by the natives. I am still a Christian but it is so easy to blame GOD for letting bad things happen to my family.
Dave: "Being mad at God is just the end result of the Archon's false message here on earth.
Rob: "I am going to unpack your statement a little differently.
Quote: "The Archons cast a trance over Adam which caused him to be sleepy, but it was his perception they dulled ... They make our hearts heavy that we may not pay attention and may not see. So we loose the reflection of the Divine Light within us ... The Archons burden the soul, attracting us to works of evil, and pull us down into oblivion, make us forget who we are. (The Apocrypha of John II 22: 14-10, though 27-20.)" (metahistory.org/Gnostic Catechism)
Rob: "This is a true statement. The "prince (Greek archon, Hebrew sar, English prince) angel of darkness" does attract man to do works of evil.
Dave: "To me - this sounds exactly like many accounts of an alien abduction...
Rob: "no its caused by ep-genetics, a propensity born within us.
Pr 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked (aven) imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief (ra),
The Hebrew word "aven" means potential or propensity for good or bad, it is a genetic term, hence our desire for "ra" comes from "epi-genetics". Where do these propensities come from, by the bad habits we do, that than becomes inherited to our children.
Quote: " The Apocryphon of James "Become earnest about the word! For as to the word, its first part is faith; the second, love; the third, works; for from these comes life.
Hence, become full of the Spirit, but be in want of reason, for reason <belongs to> the soul; in turn, it is (of the nature of) soul."
Rob: "Correct, out quest is to support (faith) God's word, experience God's love and do the works of that love in us. This is true living.
Quote: "The (First) Apocalypse of James The Lord said, "James, I praise your understanding and your fear. If you continue to be distressed, do not be concerned for anything else except your redemption. For behold, I shall complete this destiny upon this earth as I have said from the heavens. And I shall reveal to you your redemption."
Rob: "Our redemption is the only thing we should consider, and how GOD reveals our redemption to us.
Dave: " Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:
No falling here - God set him so - God sent him so - God's will be done
Rob: "Your a little off timing here, this statement is written before the anointed cherub sinned, God set him so, God's will be done, He walked among the stones of fire, and was the chief musical master of heaven.
The next statement concerns this angel in a fallen state because of his sinning:
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
When sin was found in this cherub, he was no longer anointed, no longer the chief musician, no longer allowed near the Father.
Quote: "The Gospel of the Egyptians After five thousand years, the great light Eleleth spoke: "Let someone reign over the chaos and Hades." And there appeared a cloud whose name is hylic Sophia [...] She looked out on the parts of the chaos, her face being like [...] in her form [...] blood. And the great angel Gamaliel spoke to the great Gabriel, the minister of the great light Oroiael; he said, "Let an angel come forth, in order that he may reign over the chaos and Hades." Then the cloud, being agreeable, came forth in the two monads, each one of which had light. [...] the throne, which she had placed in the cloud above. Then Sakla, the great angel, saw the great demon who is with him, Nebruel. And they became together a begetting spirit of the earth.
Rob: "This Gnostic writing tells me the war in heaven between the Father, Jesus and the unfallen angels, and the first angel that sinned and his fallen angels, went on for 5,000 years, causing much chaos and hell (whatever those terms mean).
Did God know the highest angel next to him would eventually sin? Yes. Was this God's desire to bring sin into his perfect universe? No When the sinning began it caused a war in heaven.
How did the Father react to this war and the angels sinning?
"Let someone reign over the chaos and Hades."
Some BEING was chosen to reign as a prince over this engineered darkness. Who engineered the darkness (ra)? GOD did. But who is responsible for this dysfunctional engineering of darkess in the first place? It has to be the BEING who caused all this sinning and war in heaven in the first place?
Dave: " There is a trinity of evil - The devil - the beast - and the false prophet Gnostic beast = the Chief Archon - devil = the Accuser (any messanger / angel / archon used to accuse) - and the False prophet (a man? - the church? - something on/in this realm - religion?)
Rob: "I can support these words, trinity of evil Beings sounds interesting as a theme. Chief angel as prince. Other demons of fallen angels who also sinned. And false prophet, as mankind and his religions following the archons (plural).
Who is being challenged here?
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
This bright star is wanting the Father's job in heaven. The Father is challenged.
Quote: "Let an angel come forth, in order that he may reign over the chaos and Hades." Rob: "This is so alien to the Father's world, so perfect and lovely, but He is forced to allow it's existence. Because the Father is challenged.
Doesn't this angel know that there is nothing apart from the Father? A creature has to always have a creator? The angels looks at all this code of life, physical laws and stuff and thinks, maybe we don't need a Father after all? Maybe one can exist naturally without a Father ruling over us?
Dave: "How can we prove the whole – if we ignore ½ the theology?
Why should we know about the opposition against us – other than to know your enemy
Rob: "I agree, we should know our enemy. And the demons that rule our world.
Dave: "WHO IS DOING THE LEADING? – Who put Job to the test?
Rob: "What was Job? a true follower seeking redemption. Why was mankind created in the first place? To function as jury if the Father is on trial and Chief Archon is the court opponent, we need jury members who have never heard of demons and Father before, a Being totally brand new to all this sinning and war in heaven.
So Jesus, via the Father and via the Holy Spirit, the Father knowing all things, creates a special universe with 120 decimal places of fine tuning, to allow as much as possible, a way for living things to exist without much of the Father in their lives, should sinning also exist in humans, if the chief archon angel causes them to sin. The Father for saw His challenge, and need jury members to witness that the Father's love is true and that the Devils claim is false.
Hence The Father has a claim over Job, as a jury member for the Father. The opponent is trying to lay false claims, thus remove Job as a jury member in "big court judgement" one day coming. If opponent has his way, Job would have been killed. That's the contest; and why Father tells Opponent do this only. Who is the arbitrator of fair dealing with this contest? The Holy Spirit is, the "administrator of chaos and hell" so such a world exists for the sake of the chief archons challenge against the Father.
Hope this makes sense to you? My take on pondering confusion.
Dave: "Ezekiel 28 – is not about the Chief Archon – but Salkia, who volunteered to: Reign in Hell verses serving in heaven – to control the chaos
Who is Salkia? Give me all the gnostic literature on this Being?
Dave: " His answer – God didn’t make Lucifer to be evil, he became evil Rob: "correct. The Father knew one day this angel would sin, to choose to sin (the free will choice) angels have, they are NOT robots.
Dave: ": Angels do not have free will – Jesus said God’s will is done in heaven not anyone else's. What dose this guy think of God’s kingdom? God say do a thing and the angel reply – later, we will get around to it – no they say Yes Sir and jump
Rob: " Isn't that true angels are serving GOD willingly?
Dave: " Archon have no free will – they know their fate – all they can do is prolong the Contest Rob: " Isn't that because fallen angels willingly have pride towards GOD because of their sin? Once a Being sears the communication of the Holy Spirit pleading to your free will to choose, the fate of you choosing NOT GOD is sealed forever. You prolong your final destiny, which is to no longer exist in any form. For the fallen angels that day is coming. "they know their fate – all they can do is prolong the Contest" correct.
Dave: " This is exactly why the angels are jealous of man – this is why the Archon hate man – this creature of dust-mind can end up judging them in heaven. What is a more valuable love, robotic angelic love, or the love of man that chooses God over his own life here.
Rob: "Interesting reply. A GOD of love would not create angels to be mere robots. The unfallen angels love to do as the Father says. In fact on earth as a Christian all you do in your walk, is to sow the Father's Words, personified in the Son, so that when you support those words (faith process) the power of the Father empowers you as you requested. That's the only living we have all the time. Self doing does not exist in heaven, or on earth, unless your leaving the Father out of your life and doing good things in your own human strength, is a thing that means nothing to the Father.
Jury people now fallen as creatures, but choosing a second chance through Jesus love doing for them, is a more powerful testimony of love, than fallen angels have. One, fallen angels knew the Father all along and chose to sin against the Father, and two humans were tricked to sin, and wish through the Son to live in the Father. That's a love unknown to the universe ever . Gnostic writings call this redemptive love.
Dave: "Animals make self-determining choices all the time
Rob: " perhaps. Instinct? Solomon wrote something he wasn't sure about?
Ec 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
maybe animals can talk like humans can? have ability to think? I don't know.
Dave: "The Archon are created beings to be the opposition
Quote: "Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Rob: "I don't see this, the chief fallen angel now a prince of darkness (chief archon) was called out of consequence to his free will to choose sinning, to become the ruler of chaos and hell.
"Let an angel come forth, in order that he may reign over the chaos and Hades."
This is the consequence to sin by the cherub in the first place.
Dave: "The question was - – Why did God create Lucifer, if he knew he would be evil.
OK, I will try to answer your question. Love is relational and has relationship to matter. Love is a relationship of divinity with matter. Matter is actually a physical manifestation of divinity but unlike divinity has no mind, so exists in a physical world of laws. So if everything is comprised of GOD, how do you create free will in the first place, free will to choose what? Well if everything is created, formed and by relationship to do with GOD, than free will has to be by definition, something we choose that does not have GOD in it. For a maths question is this choice possible? No. Infinity is a maths number and zero is the maths number opposite, that doesn't mean anything. SO free will has Infinity or zero ? Not must of a choice is it? so why would perfect beings choose zero if they has everything? Good question.
Perhaps the mystery stems from physical laws in matter, why engineer things that obey physical laws that indirectly exist without GOD directly and than make something living out of this entity into a relationship with a direct divine Being. Perhaps matter can exist independently from GOD? This I feel is why evolution is the religion Satan brought to mankind only recently:
Da 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not...
I suspect this angel thought matter (he being made of matter) could exist forever without GOD at all, after all he was thousands of years old and had not died yet.
Hence the one world government promotes evolution, naturalism and laws of common good, whatever those terms mean. It is living without the Father in it.
Hope this answers the question a little?
Quote: "The Hypostasis of the Archons ...all the heavens of chaos became full of their multitudes. (Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick;) But it was by the will of the father of the entirety that they all came into being ( Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:) – after the pattern of all the things above – so that the sum of chaos might be attained. ( Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, 1Th 2:10 Ye are witnesses,)
Dave: "What’s the purpose of the Contest?
Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which Jehovah thy God hath led thee these forty years in the wilderness, that he might humble thee, to prove thee, to know what was in thy heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or not.
Rob: "Interesting. Redemption is the contest. Redemption from whom? Archons is a term for prince. Prince Satan, the sepent, or Prince Jesus, king of the redeemed. Your choice, which do you serve?
Quote: "Authoritative Teaching [And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
Correct. Noting can be observed unless the Father engineers it to be observed. But the Father is NOT the engineer of people or angels or demons or archons who choose to walk away from the Father's love. That is relationship. You, the Being do that yourself.
Jos 24:15 ¶ And if it seem evil (raa) unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. (KJV)
The Father might engineer "ra" so we can observe "ra", but the Father is NOT a doer of "Ra". The tree of living in the Eden, was a tree of life. The other tree was called the tree of function and dysfunction. That was the choice. Either choose all of GOD, or lesser amounts of GOD living in your life. By lessor amounts, I mean the power of living from GOD. Less light is called darkness; Less heat is termed cold. and Less loving is termed evil. Why was this testing established? Because sinning has entered the universe for the first time, long before man had sinned, angels had sinned.
The Father was challenged by a cherub, I will be like you. I exist without you. I don't need love to exist. I exist fine by myself. This challenge the Father had to meet, and so engineered a universe where one could exist by themselves, without the Father (much) in their lives. This is how I would explain this.
Quote: "He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists."
Correct. The Father wants to free Himself from the court challenge of Satan.
Quote: " And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the worlds that are in the heavens, those in which universal death exists,
Rob: "Correct. Opponent's (satans)contend against us. The chief satan or chief archon was the first angel who sinned long before humans came to be.
Quote: "But return, my son, to your first father, God, and Wisdom, your Mother, from whom you came into being from the very first in order that you might fight against all of your enemies, the Powers of the Adversary.
Rob: "Correct. The powers (plural) of the Opponent (singular). Wisdom the Holy Spirit was set up, called forth to make sure the contest is fair, for the chief archon angel who sinned first challenges the Father in court. The Holy Spirit is impartial to this contest and ensures things are fair to both parties in conflict.
Quote: "The Letter of Peter to Philip "And this (is the reason) that you will fight against the powers, because they do not have rest like you, since they do not wish that you be saved."
Rob: "Correct.
Quote: "Then the apostles worshiped again saying, "Lord, tell us: In what way shall we fight against the archons, since the archons are above us?"
Rob: "correct, we fight the archons all the time. they trick us into sinning. Fight the good fight of support. (faith)
Quote: "Then a voice called out to them from the appearance saying, "Now you will fight against them in this way, for the archons are fighting against the inner man. And you are to fight against them in this way: Come together and teach in the world the salvation with a promise. And you, gird yourselves with the power of my Father, and let your prayer be known. And he, the Father, will help you as he has helped you by sending me. Be not afraid, I am with you forever, as I previously said to you when I was in the body." Then there came lightning and thunder from heaven, and what appeared to them in that place was taken up to heaven.
Rob: "Well said, we fight the archons (plural) via the help of Jesus, who gives us the power of the Father. Pray to the Father, that via Jesus and the Holy Spirit, you are redeemed.
Quote: "The Teachings of Silvanus Listen, my son, to my advice. Do not be arrogant in opposition to every good opinion, but take for yourself the side of the divinity of reason. Keep the holy commandments of Jesus Christ, and you will reign over every place on earth, and will be honored by the angels and archangels. Then you will acquire them as friends and fellow servants, and you will acquire places in heaven above.
Rob: "Well said. you will reign over every place on earth, and will be honored by the angels and archangels - the good and unfallen angels of heaven.
Quote: "But before everything (else), know your birth. Know yourself, that is, from what substance you are, or from what race, or from what species. Understand that you have come into being from three races: from the earth, from the formed, and from the created. The body has come into being from the earth with an earthly substance, but the formed, for the sake of the soul, has come into being from the thought of the Divine. The created, however, is the mind, which has come into being in conformity with the image of God.
Rob: "Correct. The earthly lowest race, follows physical law. The formed, nephesh, the relationship of matter with divinity. The created, the mind, that which is empowered by the Father, via the Son via the Holy Spirit, who live personally in you.
Quote: "The Apocryphon of James Hence, become full of the Spirit, but be in want of reason, for reason <belongs to> the soul; in turn, it is (of the nature of) soul."
Rob: "Correct: The ruwach is part of the nephesh, a part of the nature of nephesh. But what is wrong is to say ruwach is the same as nephesh. Both Hebrew words are different for a reason.
Quote: "But I answered and said to him, "Lord, we can obey you if you wish, for we have forsaken our fathers and our mothers and our villages, and followed you. Grant us, therefore, not to be tempted by the devil, the evil one." The Lord answered and said, "What is your merit if you do the will of the Father and it is not given to you from him as a gift while you are tempted by Satan? But if you are oppressed by Satan, and persecuted, and you do his (i.e., the Father's) will, I say that he will love you, and make you equal with me, and reckon you to have become beloved through his providence by your own choice.
Rob: "Correct. We are tempted by Satan. Why? so we are given reasons to support the Father and his words of power we sow in us. These witnesses of sowing the Father's power is invaluable to the Father, and show we are truly following GOD.
Quote: "The Exegesis on the Soul And repentance takes place in distress and grief. But the father is good and loves humanity, and he hears the soul that calls upon him and sends it the light of salvation.
Rob: "When we sow tears of joy, do we fully understand our need for the Father.
Ho 13:5 ¶ I did know thee in the wilderness, in the land of great drought. 6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me.
This is a Christian curse here, the more I have blessing from the Father, the more I forget Him, apathy is a curse. The cure? give away your blessings to others.
A tomato only continues to make tomatoes as long as the fruit is picked off the vine. That's what Sabbath time is for, to give away our blessing's.
Dave: "Are you telling me that in Eph 6 Paul urges us to fight against Gods Archangels - because God's Archangels are actually 'fallen angels' working for the Dragon?
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Rob: "We fight against the Devils angels, not God's angels?
Dave: "Fallen angels - logical? If you believe in 'fallen angels' - then you force your cosmology to include 1- Angels have free will and don't have to obey or do what they are told 2- God's will is not done in heaven Rob: I don't understand 3- We can fall from God's Grace
4- if God didn't do it - second creation theory - second creator - someone else made evil - man made evil - or evil does not exist
5- gap theory - Christians have to invent another theory to give the angels time to fall, so there is a gap of time between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 Blah blah blah - once you make up something - you have to make up more things to justify it
Rob: I don't follow you here Dave? can you detail more please?
What's wrong with war in heaven 5,000 years before earth came along, as gnostic writings suggest?
Dave: For me - My God is Omnipotent, omniscience, and omnipresent Rob: For me too.
God knew one day rolling forward, an angel would choose to sin. It was not designed that way, but free will has that choice designed in it.
Angels cannot have grace. They have no excuse to sin or not sin. Humans only have grace. Jesus was kind to us and offered us a second chance. We were tricked into sinning by a fallen angel who sinned long before us. But grace offered by Jesus only comes to you if you accept it. It's not automatic. Neither, once saved you cannot fall. Your mind can choose to sin and not accept Jesus. But if you experience fullest love, why would you depart from it?
Dave: "I know you are trying real hard to deny the demons that plague this world. Rob : Incorrect. Sorry to mislead.
Dave: "Yet - you try so hard to prove that it is just singular Rob: "archon means prince, it can be both singular or plural as a term.
Dave: "Free Will - We do not agree Rob: "it is OK to differ, after all not much is spoken about angels in Scripture. But to me GOD creating angels with robotic love, doesn't sound like love to me?
Dave: "The Chief Archon was created through the Holy Spirit to test creation It reproduced.
Rob: "Wow, do you have (1) Bible texts for this idea, and (2) Gnostic texts that says this same idea? How can different creature kind have successful hybrid sex with different creature kind? no possible. GMO is possible, epi-genetics possible?
It is true Hebrew does not link archon-sar with angel-cherub.
Dave: "Fall from Grace - We do not agree here again. If you can loose your salvation, then what does salvation mean.
If you say, I believe at 20 and ask Christ into your heart But at 40, you no longer believe - have you lost your salvation? Have you fallen from Grace?
No - you were delusional at 20 and never had either
There is a big difference between being a Christian and pretending to be one
Rob: I asked Jesus into my life at aged 16. My prayers (one survives) shows a child like understanding of redemption. Massive sinning over the years, loss of my family, divorce, and tragedy. Have I been pretending? I cannot do public miracles in Jesus name on others, so I must be pretending? My brother claims to do public miracles as a Pastor to others anointing in Jesus Name (just 3 occasions he remembers?), wow. Peter was pretending the first three years? I don't think so.
Lu 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
That's not as Hebrew would have said it, when you are turned around again, strengthen your brothers. Salvation and power from redemption is a process, not an event in time, like our baptism etc. Surrender is also a process, not some step in redemption. We are trained, grow up maturity in Jesus, not straight away doing powers in His name. Some seeds grow fast, others slow. Judas was a believer once but chose to fall away. He loved money more than Jesus. The five foolish virgins all love Jesus, but they fall away at the last hour. You can fall from Jesus, just by neglecting prayer and Bible study every day. Seedling grow. If they fail to grow, they die. Easy. We grow as a tree grows.
Dave: "If the angels have free will - maybe they can win in the end. If all the angels ganged up on God they could just do away with scripture all together
Rob: "That's why the Father banished the 1/3 of angels to "hell" a place created for them. The Father was losing, He lost a lot of loyal free will angels. Jesus saved 3 million of Israel + Egyptians in Sinai, and within 40 days all but few, had fallen into big sinning. God is a failure when Satan is around. That's why bad things happen to good people. This world is not the Father's, its Satan's world. However Jesus a prince (archon) came to buy earth back. Jesus is king of earth, Satan is not king of earth, anymore; but the final contest still continues. Satan hates Jesus getting earth back and has become spiteful. Satan is doomed and lost when He killed Jesus on the Cross.
The war is nearly over, the Father has a few more places to fill and replace the positions left by the fallen angels. These lost positions of responsibility will be filled by the redeemed. And one trace of chaos exists for eternity to remind us of what it is like if we choose in our free will, the other side... matter with less perfection...on Jesus body.. scars on his form... redeeming us humans...Never again will chaos exist. It's results show in full view to unfallen worlds on Jesus body.
Dave: "This is the biggest difference between us
You say theology is only what scripture says I say all creation witnesses to the Creator
In the beginning God made everything - Period
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rob: "Yes but GOD does NOT do evil! Evil only comes when a Being walks away from GOD. It's a relationship thing. Once you walk towards GOD, you enjoy His love. When you walk away from GOD, the relationship breaks and it becomes a term we call "evil".
Dave: "And the church now believes there is no enemy – It is impossible to have an enemy because God is love
Rob: "There is an enemy all right. God is love. Satan is hate. Bad things happen to God's people because of many reasons... and the story is always about RELATIONSHIP:
1) we don't support God properly 2) we have propensities not fully removed yet, our pet sinning get's to us 3) we do sins of ignorance which may cause GOD not to hedge us properly 4) sometimes it's for a bigger cause, after all God is on trial, Satan challenges GOD and at times when your valuable to Him , GOD does not cut worthless gem-stones
Dave: "I believe in unseen entities for many reasons I cannot turn on the News without seeing scripture alive before my eyes My children cannot watch television because of the demonic hypnosis of the industry
Rob:" God bless your parenting. I used to do the same with TV, to my kids.
Dave: "Jesus made 120 gals of wine – was it fake? near beer? NO – it was the BEST (proof the Jesus was in command of time – because the best wine is aged)
Rob: "I hope your NOT saying Jesus made alcoholic wine? It was the best virgin aged non-alcoholic grape juice. Can't get a product like this these days. Foot pressed grape juice, not hydrolysed water, the real McCoy.
Dave: "On the other extreme RA ἄρχων – in a hierarchy – no Free Will - created to test creation – lake of fire
Rob: " I don't see this. Robots would not bother with testing humans. What's the point of the test if it's just robotic? Why end the pain? Why begin the pain?
So surmise with me, have other unfallen worlds also endured this testing before? Do other creatures have to experience GOD in this manner? are we the only ones who have to endure this testing? And why? the point is? get more love out of us? why? a child loves better I reckon than adults do... Jesus says so himself... a love test over time makes no sense, if everything is automatic...programmed programming ? To me testing is like trying metal in a fire, to get it purer, its takes time. Character development takes time...get rid of one mixed with sin, get another from Jesus.
Dave: " 2- Adam is not an Archon
Archon - Greek word. Hebrew word is sar or prince. Was Adam a prince of earth?
Yes once. But Adam lost his crown, title and gave the kingdom to an angel who became prince.
Where does Scripture say this?
Ro 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
The last word, used 3 times in Greek is a court term. A change of ruling.
Ro 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
When Adam did missing, one act caused a court ruling.
Ro 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
The court ruling changes if your born again under Jesus, via the Holy Spirit.
Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Another help is the Greek word kathstemi, meaning ruler. or to rule.
Kings rule. they have kingdoms. A prince is a young king about to rule.
So Satan was claiming to rule earth and came to meet GOD in this way, as a prince or archon.
Job 1:6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Does Hebrew acknowledge this ruling ? Yes
Jos 24:15 ¶ And if it seem evil (raa) unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. (KJV)
1Ki 18:21 ¶ And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
The word verb halt is "pacach" also in noun form Passover. meaning to hop verb, or hopping day, noun.
We hop on one leg. We choose Baal. Baal means verb "master" or noun, "idol of master". Thus we choose which ruler rules over us. Some of us hop between GOD and ourselves as master, creating lukewarm Christians.
Jesus is a prince, came to destroy the prince of darkness. When Jesus a prince, rose from the grave, He rose as a King, in fact King of all Kings. Earth will be His kingdom.
Dave:" Scripture does not equate "ben elohiym" with cherub –Correct Bane elohiym = children of the elohiym (chief Archon)
Rob: "ben elohiym" means followers of GOD, not follows of darkness.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
"ben elohiym" here, true followers become sons of God.
Where is this idea further stated?
Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Here
Ga 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Here
1Jo 3:1 ¶ Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God:
Here
Well Dave, this is the biggest and longest reply I have ever written. It takes me over 5 hours to write to you. I do this because I care for you. Every person is valuable to GOD, and witnessing is a time consuming process. But that's what Sabbath is for, time set aside to redeem ourselves and share Jesus with them. Sure some things we disagree but many things we do agree. I do like the gnostic selections you provide. They make sense.
God bless your journey and parenting of your daughters. Shalom
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UFO's
Oct 5, 2019 2:46:07 GMT -5
Post by Dave on Oct 5, 2019 2:46:07 GMT -5
Finally – date stamp – God set the angel to his task - first Christendom says – this angel sinned then fell – fell because he sinned Gnostic literature says – this angel volunteered for the job Perhaps this is where we get the idea of – absolute power corrupts absolutely Let’s play lawyer and make Job a crime scene God orders the hit – satan is the hitman all western cultural law (based on the 10 Commandments ) would say both are equally guilty Let’s say you are an Egyptian father You are so far removed from the political circle you have no clue what is going on You and you neighbors have been plagued with hardships one after another Then YHWY (orders a hit) sent an angel of death and killed my first born son Explain to the Egyptian father how God is never evil A Christian will say – that’s not evil it is righteous judgment It still seems evil to that father Feel Good Christianity is at a loss to justify this People ask – If you god is so merciful and loving why did God tell Israel to kill every last man, woman, child, pet, and livestock of certain tribes? Or why does He want to send us all to hell? How can the God of Love and Mercy be the (Crime boss) ordering hits on people at the same time? Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man: The key is – He Himself doesn’t do it – He has a department staffed with Archon to do it for Him This is correct. IMO Also – Christ is not the doer of RA – it springs from the other 1/3 of the Trinity – The Female The duality of genderGen 1:27 God (‘el - singular) said let us (elohiym plural ) made man in our image And what image was that – male and female Through the male – Christ – there is the extreme of eternal life – TOV Through the female – (insert name here) – there is the extreme of the Lake of Fire – RA To those that say Holy Spirit didn’t create – all things came through Christ Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Word – Word with – Word was God – Holy Spirit – Christ – it is a Trinity – they all did it Perhaps it is a matter of perception – as I am standing in matter – it takes faith to see the heavens (dimensions) as reality. It isn’t tangible to my senses. When I was two, I felt as if I would live forever. Now, it is a kick in the pants to know better. Perception. Ponder this – My perception of time is that it is speeding up. More and more I say things like – WOW it October already where did the year go? However – when I was 10, a year was 1/10th of my life, now it is a much smaller fraction. Wait – Christian Mythology error If they are in hell in a special place – how can they be the same ones we fight against now? Hope you know better by now Angels are not under Grace – not necessary because they cannot choose Man is under Grace, if we choose it / Christ / Him If angels have Free Will and the devil and his followers know they are doomed – it is already written – In the agl – the demons knew who Jesus was – believed – why don’t they just repent? They cannot because God’s plan would not unfold as scripted The satan has no choice – he is stuck in his role till the end Since we are taking about demons – in Christian mythology – where do demons come from? The mythology goes = one sinned and took a 1/3 of the good angels So are the 1/3 angels now demons? – aren’t they in chains in hell Or where do Christian demons come from? Gnostic literature calls them the Archon – created beings to test creation Yes – ancient wine was not really booze as we know it But – grape juice ferments naturally – if it didn’t it would mold The more fermented it was the longer is could last without spoiling From the article here – The Romans put wine in their water to purify it? How does that work – acid pH and alcohol Paul wrote to the church in Corinth talking about drunkenness at Communion www.wineinvestment.com/wine-blog/2015/11/wine-throughout-history-what-were-ancient-wines-really-like/In ancient Rome and Greece, people didn’t have a great deal of choice when it came to quenching their thirst, with only a few kinds of fruit juice, warm goat’s milk or stagnant water on the menu. If they had the opportunity to sweeten the otherwise foul-tasting water, they would, and so wine was used to purify and add flavour.
In fact, wine had to be cut with water. In such a warm climate grape juice would ferment all by itself unless it was drunk straight after harvest, and without any decent preservation techniques it would quickly turn into a thick, dark, syrupy gloop. Adding water was the only way to make it palatable.
Still, despite their relative ignorance when it came to preservation, these civilisations were very well aware of the dangers of over-indulgence. Babylonian King Hammurabi issued laws that restricted the consumption and sale of alcohol,Bane elohiym never means followers – I side with Chuck Missler on this one Debunk his presentation There is a Cosmic Deception And most Christians are not prepared for what’s coming Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/393/gnostic-sermon-all-point-creator#ixzz61Slx6FyhThis name comes from the Gospel of the Egyptians Names and the Nag Hammadi Text The intro says – The texts were not always translated by people not always capable of grasping the profundity or sublimity of what they sought to translate. A translator of a brief section of Plato’s Republic clearly did not understand the text. How does he know – because we have other copies of Plato’s Republic to compare it with. A lot of Gnostic literature survives in only one text – that is fragmented and missing pieces Just like the oldest copies of the NT – but we have 100s of NT copies to compare against The Roman Index was to be burnt wherever found. Names – If he Holy Spirit is called Sophia, The Goddess of Wisdom, The Womb of Creation, or whatever I am not Bothered – what’s in a name – I like all these names better than Holy Ghost, because a Ghost is the spirit of a dead thing (Romes) Two stories for you – Church of God, small town Indiana, lovely minister. He would wash feet (Ester - I think) – he inspired me. Every Sunday the congregation grew. His daughter got pregnant – so he walked away from his ministry. If he can’t control his own children, how could he care for God’s children? I tell a story of a Methodist Minister in New Jersey that saw a UFO. He lost his church and his standing in the Methodist guild. If you are near Him – you are near the fireThis is why the Archon are so effective in the church – the church is asleep Lost in economic lust and carnal desire – so the Archon don’t bother them – don’t have to tempt them So, when I walk in and want to talk about the reality of the Archon – they all look at me like I am crazy Now as a father – I am sad – the contest is so hard Mat 10:34 Think not that I came to send peace on the earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law: 36 and a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, as ye go forth out of that house or that city, shake off the dust of your feet. I come from Amish country and they take Mat 10:34 very seriously The Amish kids get away with murder at teens – Room Springa – they call it – exploring the word. But once they join the church – it is the Law of Moses for them. If they sin, they publically humiliated. I asked Orva (all names come from the Bible) – do you ever miss church? He said he never misses church – because whoever is missing is who the sermon is about. If they leave the church – they will not look upon you. Don’t matter if it is your twin, your son, or your husband – they call it shunning. Richard’s church also shuns.
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