Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
UFO's
Sept 29, 2019 13:56:48 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 13:56:48 GMT -5
You show Ephesians 6:12 in the Textus repectus correctly and I see "arche" Greek 645. Also translated as "principalities " . Hope this is correct so far?
So what does "arche" mean?
56 contexts in the Greek.
Mt 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the "beginning" (arche) made them male and female,
Mt 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the "beginning" (arche) it was not so.
Mt 24:8 All these [are] the "beginning" (arche) of sorrows.
Mt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the "beginning" (arche) of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mr 1:1 ¶ The "beginning" (arche) of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Mr 10:6 But from the "beginning" (arche) of the creation God made them male and female.
Mr 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these [are] the "beginning" (arche) of sorrows.
Mr 13:19 For [in] those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the "beginning" (arche) of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Lu 1:2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the "beginning" (arche) were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
Lu 12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and [unto] magistrates (arche) , and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
This is the first context to use a Person, as an (arche). What does this mean? I don't know yet?
Lu 20:20 ¶ And they watched [him], and sent forth spies, which should feign themselves just men, that they might take hold of his words, that so they might deliver him unto the power (arche) and authority of the governor.
This is the first context to use a Power, as an (arche). What does this mean? I don't know yet?
Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning (arche) was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning (arche) with God.
Joh 2:11 This beginning (arche) of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning (arche) who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Joh 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even [the same] that I said unto you from the beginning (arche).
Joh 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning (arche), and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning (arche).
Now I am taking you on a journey of my method of studying words. The impression I get so far is "arache" means "first" and I predict this word will fit all contexts, I haven't even seen as yet.
Those strange contexts so far:
Lu 20:20 ¶ And they watched [him], and sent forth spies, which should feign themselves just men, that they might take hold of his words, that so they might deliver him unto the "first" authority of the governor.
Lu 12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and "first" (investigators) and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
Feel that the word "investigator" has to be added to render who these "first's" are? "magistrate" is a good word though for "arche" the "first" authority you see.
Joh 16:4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you. Ac 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Ac 11:5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me: Ac 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Ac 26:4 My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews; Ro 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 1Co 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Php 4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Col 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 2Th 2:13 ¶ But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Tit 3:1 ¶ Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him]; Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. Heb 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. 2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. 1Jo 1:1 ¶ That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 1Jo 2:7 ¶ Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 1Jo 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. 1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one. 1Jo 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1Jo 3:11 ¶ For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 2Jo 1:5 ¶ And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. 2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Re 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Re 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; Re 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. Re 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
You tell me what "arche" means ? I think it means "first". If that is the origin of the spelling "archon" I agree with you, its not coming from archangel. But than again if we break this down with my suspected meaning archangel means "first-angel", and this fits perfectly.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against "first's", against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (KJV)
Who are these "first's" ? The first Beings who sinned long before earth existed. The angels that fell, is the logical conclusion for me. Shalom
This is how my method works, it follows solar scriptoria, (not traditions) and when I get time, will finish with getting the Greek back to it's Hebrew word in the OT to follow that meaning consistently too.
I will get back to the text "engineering dysfunction" I like the UTube video on Einstein on this, Does GOD create video. Evil doesn't exist, it is simply man living with less of God's power in their lives, ie "ra". Where does a ruler of evil come from? From the "first" ? Who was He? The covering cherub scripture says.
If God is all function, and this "First cherub" wanted a universe of dysfunction, how could GOD grant His request? by "engineering dysfunction"... Does this make GOD a creator of evil? no. He allowed the "first cherub" his request.
Who wanted Job to suffer, God or this "first cherub"? God gave permission to the "first cherub" and so "ra" followed.
A medium of function and dysfunction allows for movement of free will, but it not the originator of that movement, the free will is. A medium has no active role. The Holy Spirit functions as a medium for free will to move as it wants for a time. When all is over, the medium of ra, will cease to exist. People will not longer miss. The first-cherub will also no longer exist.
Shalom
|
|
|
UFO's
Sept 29, 2019 19:01:47 GMT -5
Post by Dave on Sept 29, 2019 19:01:47 GMT -5
Notice the word order of Textus Receptus.
In Greek – word order is not that important Texus Receptus is not a respected version – it is just the 1611 KJV I learned to translate classical Greek in 1970 – NT Greek has just been the useful application of those studies.
My Greek Nt is Novum Testamentum Graece 26th edition, 1966 – United Bible Society As I visit different chat rooms and online NT Greek course – it is the most common text
Rom 5:19 ὥσπερ γὰρ διὰ τῆς παρακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἁμαρτωλοὶ κατεστάθησαν οἱ πολλοί, οὕτω καὶ διὰ τῆς ὑπακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς δίκαιοι κατασταθήσονται οἱ πολλοί.
English sentence structure wants – subject verb object Subjects are in the nonnative case and objects are in the accusative case The first condition here is as statement of equality nonnative -verb- nonnative
My name is Dave = Dave is my name Sinners = the many or the many = sinners
Your favorite word Κατεστάθησαν – Classical Greek - Verb – aorist, (especially in Greek) an unqualified past tense of a verb without reference to duration or completion of the action. 3rd person – passive (he is talking about someone else in the past) - To make prey, to vex, to injure,
NT Greek - to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, conduct, make, ordain, set.
Κατασταθήσονται – Classical Greek - Verb 3rd per - Present perfect Active – or Pluperfect Active The Perfect Tense indicates ongoing result. If you remember that the meaning of the word perfect is complete, then you can remember that the perfect tense has to do with completed action. But the perfect tense is a primary tense because it emphasizes the present, or ongoing result of a completed action.
NT Greek - to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, conduct, make, ordain, set.
First condition (with emphasis) the errors, disobediences, of the one man, the many = injured, Vexed, Appointed, Ordained, (Without reference to duration or completion)
First condition INDEED/BECAUSE – through -the errors/ disobediences pl – of the one man = the many (have become) injured, vexed, appointed, ordained (Without reference to duration or completion) – sinners
***** First condition – BECAUSE – through –the errors of the one man – many have become - vexed, ordained sinners (Without reference to duration or completion)
Second condition – the obedience / submission of the one – the many - are vexed, appointed, ordained (emphasizes the present, or ongoing result of a completed action.) – Innocent, Avenged, justified
***** BECAUSE of the errors of the one man the many have become sinners However, by the submission of the one the many have become avenged
***** Make it sound like bible
BECAUSE of the disobedience of one man the many have become sinners (Without reference to duration or completion) However, through the submission of the one the many have become justified (emphasizes the present, or ongoing result of a completed action)
***** Previous attempt One the one hand – There is absolutely no doubt that The disobedience of one man caused many to be permanently ordained as sinners
But, on the other hand, because of THE submission / obedience of one, many = (will be – future perfect) permanently ordained as innocent (Pluperfect)
***** (YLT) for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous.
(KJV) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
(NIV) For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
(1599 GNV) ]For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by that obedience of that one, shall many also be made righteous.
(CJB) For just as through the disobedience of the one man, many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the other man, many will be made righteous.
|
|
|
UFO's
Sept 29, 2019 20:01:22 GMT -5
Post by Dave on Sept 29, 2019 20:01:22 GMT -5
Ah yes- the Roman edit of Greek lexicons
NT Greek lexicon are all of Roman origin (they are the authority you know) In the NT Strongs dictionary you get G746 ἀρχή - archē - From G756; (properly abstract) a commencement, or (concrete) chief (in various applications of order, time, place or rank): - beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule. This is a Roman edit – it will only lead to confusion like yours But the word of Eph 6:12 = τὰς ἀρχάς, - this is a feminine noun in the dative case – plural It does not stem from ἀρχή It stems from ἄρχων – The Analytical Greek Lexicon, Zondervan, 1973 ἀρχῇ - first, beginning, extremity of time ἄρχων – authority, ruler, magistrate, governor Wiki ἄρχων - Archon (Greek: ἄρχων, romanized: árchōn, plural: ἄρχοντες, árchontes) is a Greek word that means "ruler", frequently used as the title of a specific public office. It is the masculine present participle of the verb stem αρχ-, meaning "to be first, to rule". Derived from the same root are words such as monarch and hierarchy. An Introduction to Greek, Crosby and Shafer, 1928 Archon (Gr. αρχων, pl. αρχοντες) is a Greek word that means "ruler". "to be first, to rule". – They had dominion over the earth until Adam Modern Greek dictionary - online today 2019 www.wordreference.com/gren/%CE%B1%CC%93%CF%81%CF%87%CE%B7%CD%85%CD%82ἄρχων archon - ancient Greece: magistrate reigning - monarch: currently in power amorality - lack of ethical sense culture war - US - conflict of values on principle - because of a moral belief regnant - reigning value system - moral code, ethos ἀρχῇ - afresh, anew, beginning, inception, origin, first My comment about your method I get it - it is quick and dirty The word with the most meanings in English is the verb 'set', with 430 senses listed in the Second Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, published in 1989. (Wiki) Trying to make the word "set" mean only one thing is impossible You can run to the store You can run the store you can get a run in your stocking or my nose is running so, run that up your flagpole but first, run it past your wife Can you give me a one word definition for run? Isn't this what you do by looking at all the verses with 'run'
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
UFO's
Sept 30, 2019 12:57:00 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 12:57:00 GMT -5
Thanks Dave, you make two different replies to two topics:
"Quote: BECAUSE of the errors of the one man the many have become sinners However, by the submission of the one the many have become avenged
Κατεστάθησαν – Classical Greek - Verb – aorist, (especially in Greek) an unqualified past tense of a verb without reference to duration or completion of the action.
Your word meaning for "kathestemi" is "many have become" or "have become".
You say my method is "quick and dirty". Your method is "technical and difficult". Both methods lead almost to the same conclusion.
Can I use this word meaning in another context?
Gen 42:6 And Joseph was the governor "kathestemi" over the land,...
Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power "kathestemi" over the spirit...
Ac 7:10 and he made "kathestemi" him governor over Egypt...
My method looks for the Hebrew word to link OT and NT words together. This is most convincing by cross referencing when the NT quotes the OT verses.
Notices the Acts adds "governor" not found in Gen 42:6. So I see where your idea of "becoming something" comes from, it is OK.
But my method is to keep ones support of GOD simple and child like.
Ps 131:1 LORD, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty: neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me. 2 Surely I have behaved and quieted myself, as a child that is weaned of his mother: my soul is even as a weaned child. 3 Let Israel hope in the LORD from henceforth and for ever. (KJV)
This prayer sets a principle that salvation must be simple, sweet and easy to follow, we are babes drinking milk, and grow up eating stronger meat over time, in the Hebrew words as they penned as messages across the OT and NT torah.
So I like to keep things simple, and if words have a single basic meaning, than the context of all the sentences should give you an idea what the word actually means.
Now when Pharoah of Egypt approached Joseph and set him up with powers to rule as a governor, this is what "kathestemi" means. The setting up of a "ruler" who "rules".
The key confirmation of the English meaning, is it must fit all the sentences it is found in the Hebrew. And do so more or less OK, though sometimes this is hard to do.
Gen 42:6 And Joseph was the "ruler" over the land,...
Ec 8:8 There is no man that can be "ruler" over the spirit...
Ac 7:10 and he "ruled" him "ruler" over Egypt...
And for Romans 5:19
Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were "ruled" sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be "ruled" righteous.
How significant is this theology? Very. It's big. and it's important we get a child like method of reading Scripture meanings of words correct.
This passage is saying because of Adam's fall the DNA is damaged with potential epigenetic genes to make it easier for one to sin again. I say "potential to fall". Thus a mind without external forces in the womb, should not sin. But it probably will?
The disciples thought DNA defects were caused by sin: Notice Jesus reply
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
So something else causes the epi-genetics to develop? And the answer to that is an active mind must choose to do sinning, for the DNA to respond to your consequences of choice. The man was blind simply because the DNA experiences chaos, as a physical medium holding critical information about life.
In Romans 5:19 through Adam we are ruled sinners. Who rules us? The powers of darkness, the "first-cherub".
Where does Scripture say this?
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it
When Adam sinned their was a change of ruler over him. Who ruled over Adam first?
Ac 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may "rule" over this business. (KJV)
While this sentence does not say it nicely, it has the "kathestemi" word and the "Holy Spirit" word, and suggests the "holy spirit rules" over us if we accept Jesus as our salvation. In the beginning when mankind was engineered by GOD the Holy Spirit as a covering power rules over us. "the Holy Spirit breath of GOD" "the breath of life".
When Adam fell, who is the ruler now?
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Who is this prince or king of earth, who claims to rule over us? Joh 8:44 Satan, the first-cherub, the father of lies, or the provider of lies.
SO from Romans 5:19 this verse says the fetus under normal conditions after 90 days as you suggest, listens to external powers of rulers, the Holy Spirit and the "first-cherub" (& perhaps even the parents?)and the forces of each ruler causes the baby to respond as the mind develops to choose to do sinning or not. Thus babies under normal conditions are ruled sinning.
The Bible is clear that sometimes one can pray for a different outcome, so that babies are born without sinning, the Nazarite vow, ensures the Holy Spirit rules over your mind, negating the "father of lies" until the child is old enough to make cognitive decisions from free will of choice. Samuel, Samson and Jesus were all born like this.
When you accept Jesus as master of your life, or ruler of your life, He rules over your fallen mind, and keeps the "Father of Lies" away. He also cuts the "epi-genetic weeds" away, so our "chaos" becomes less and less within us.
Now this is why Romans 5:19 is important to me. It answers in simple terms many important questions.
Second topic:
Quote:" This is a Roman edit – it will only lead to confusion like yours
But the word of Eph 6:12 = τὰς ἀρχάς, - this is a feminine noun in the dative case – plural It does not stem from ἀρχή
It stems from ἄρχων –
The Analytical Greek Lexicon, Zondervan, 1973 ἀρχῇ - first, beginning, extremity of time ἄρχων – authority, ruler, magistrate, governor
Oh I see. Can you provide all the verses in the NT and possibly the OT where this word "ἄρχων" exists please, so I can follow the word, and assess it's meaning correctly. My apologies for the mistakes in my software Bible program.
Does ἄρχων have a Strong's Number perhaps?
Shalom my friend
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
UFO's
Sept 30, 2019 13:36:16 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 13:36:16 GMT -5
Greetings Dave, you mention of words having a single basic meaning has challenges I agree. But Hebrew was originally broad in it's meaning.
English is not a good example of a simple language, its a complex mixing of languages, the epic of confusion really, a universal language of confusion.
Old Hebrew may have been simple once too. But for discussion try this word:
Grk#:4160 / poy-eh-o (verb): Do Freq:&579 Heb#:6213 עשה / a-sah (verb): Do—To bring to pass; to bring about; to act or make.
Ro 7:15 .. but what I hate, that do "poeio" I. Ge 1:7 And God made "asah" the firmament, Ex 8:7 And the magicians did "asah" so with their enchantments, Ex 18:23 If thou shalt do "asah" this thing, Mt 6:3 But when thou doest "asah" alms, Lu 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done "asah" to me great things; Lu 1:51 He hath shewed "asah" strength with his arm;
Hebrew is broad, and so some sentences sound strange.
Ro 7:15 .. but what I hate, that "do" I. Ge 1:7 And God "do" the firmament, Ex 8:7 And the magicians "do" with their enchantments, Ex 18:23 If thou shalt "do" this thing, Mt 6:3 But when thou "do" alms, Lu 1:49 For he that is mighty , (shall) "do" to me great things; Lu 1:51 He (shall) "do" strength with his arm;
As for the English word "run"... Part of the mixing GOD did when mixing sounds and thus their meanings, is we hear sounds and associate meanings to that new language, thus mixing the meanings of words. Polysemy is the mixing of words, causing more confusion. It is a desired result when GOD mixed sounds, to increase confusion. This does not mean confusion is desirable, it is a consequence of sin.
Le 15:3 whether his flesh run "ruwr" with his issue, Le 15:25 or if it run "zuwb" beyond the time of her separation; Jg 18:25 lest angry fellows run "paga" upon thee,
See a problem here? English "run" for three very different Hebrew words.
Shalom
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
UFO's
Sept 30, 2019 13:56:13 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 13:56:13 GMT -5
Update looking for archon:
Grk#:758 / ar-khone (noun): Ruler Freq:&37
Heb#:4428 מלך / me-lekh (noun): King—The male ruler of a nation or city state.
Heb#:5387 נשיא / na-si (noun): Captain—A military leader; the commander of a unit or a body of troops. The leader of a family, tribe or people as one who carries the burdens of the people.
Heb#:7218 ראש / rosh (noun): Head—The top of the body. A person in authority or role of leader. The top, beginning or first of something.
Heb#:8269 שר / sar (noun): Noble—Possessing outstanding qualities or properties. Of high birth or exalted rank. One who has authority. May also mean "heavy" from the weight of responsibility on one in authority.
Jeff Benner is having trouble rendering archon to a single Hebrew word. The word "sar" comes to mind quickly though for us.
Mt 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince (archon-sar) of the devils.
This suggests there is a "ruler of darkness" , a "Father of lies".
I suggest this "archon" is the "first-cherub" who fell into sin. You have a different opinion. One thing is clear, archon is a prince, a ruler, not a group of archons, though Mt 9:34 suggests this ruler has followers. Initial look so far?
Shalom
|
|
|
UFO's
Sept 30, 2019 17:02:36 GMT -5
Post by Dave on Sept 30, 2019 17:02:36 GMT -5
We are getting closer
Who are these "first's" ? The first Beings who sinned long before earth existed. The angels that fell, is the logical conclusion for me.
Fallen angels - logical? If you believe in 'fallen angels' - then you force your cosmology to include 1- Angels have free will and don't have to obey or do what they are told 2- God's will is not done in heaven 3- We can fall from God's Grace
4- if God didn't do it - second creation theory - second creator - someone else made evil - man made evil - or evil does not exist
5- gap theory - Christians have to invent another theory to give the angels time to fall, so there is a gap of time between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 Blah blah blah - once you make up something - you have to make up more things to justify it. Because satan had to fall before Gen 3 (actually this is straight out of a Gnostic text, but then they tell you Gnosticism is Bad)
Gen 1:1 (ASV) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
Isa 45:7 (ASV) I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things. Isa 45:7 (YLT) Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.'
For me - My God is Omnipotent, omniscience, and omnipresent If God's will is not done in heaven or earth - He is not omnipotent If you say, God didn't know what an angel might do - he is not omniscience And what do you say about falling from God's Grace - I think it impossible
Not omnipotent, not omniscience, and Grace is transient – all 3 are anti-Christian Christian concepts
Muslims don't see Lucifer in Isaiah 14 Jews do not see Lucifer in Isaiah 14 - yet they believe in the reality of the satan This has nothing to do with Christ - the Jews have no agenda to hide the satan
What is it about the agl that changed Isa 14?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
UFO's
Oct 1, 2019 4:50:19 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 4:50:19 GMT -5
We really are going into rare Scripture texts, pondering confusion Dave.
There are very few texts on "cherub".
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
This is the only passage on "cherub" or angels. With any hint of answering your questions.
Who is the covering cherub found in Eden, and full of sin? Well apart from Adam and Eve, and GOD, who else could be a cherub full of sin be?
What does this passage say about this cherub?
(1) He was in Eden (2) He was close to GOD (3) He was once perfect (4) He was created, using the same word as man is created, does this mean angels have nephesh as humans do? (5) He became filled with sin, implying free will to choose sin.
(6) Verse 16 implies He caused others of his kind, we assume other angels to also sin.
(7) Verse 17 who are these kings? Not of earth, The only king on earth at the time was Adam. By causing Adam to sin, the cherub claimed earth as his kingdom. But to cause a laying before kings, implies other unfallen worlds.
Job 1:6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Who are these coming before GOD in heaven long ago? The opponent was there. One can only assume these kings are from unfallen worlds, and the opponent is a king from earth.
Thus angels were created long before earth ever existed. Perhaps other universes existed where other kings came to meet GOD as kings of their world.
One day in eternity past a covering cherub sinned and took 1/3 of the angels with him. This became a war of words.
The opposing cherub demanded a universe where He could live independently away from GOD. This request would place GOD in a bind, creating a medium, where function and also dysfunction could both exist together. How does a medium do this? Magnifying glasses uses mathematics and physics laws to make a world virtual. Thus God's power to uphold dysfunction can become so.
When our world fell, thanks to Adam, the Opponent came to GOD regularly to meet with GOD. Jesus challenged the Opponent and bought back earth as the rightful king. The Opponent has now lost the contest.
The Opponent currently hates humans out of revenge and wars against Gods true followers most.
A key word meaning is "archon" itself. In Hebrew this word is "sar" prince or "king" or a "ruler".
Da 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince. (KJV)
What is interesting is both this first cherub who sinned and Jesus are both seraph, Beings of Burning. And both princes. One is good, and other bad. The contest is really over the prince who wishes to rule over your nephesh.
If you have any points that don't meet this pondering of confusion, illustrate them to me. Shalom
1- Angels have free will and don't have to obey or do what they are told - Isn't this the definition of "missing" a relationship with GOD? If angels fail to have a relationship with GOD, they sin, and thus must cease to exist.
2- God's will is not done in heaven - What does this mean to you??
3- We can fall from God's Grace ? Grace is a Hebrew word "chan" meaning beauty. The reference is to Jesus beauty or kindness to save us. Can you fall from salvation? Absolutely, then you want to cease to exist. What is a witness? One who speaks for salvation. If everybody is saved, why bother with witnessing? Obviously the strange texts must refer to something else???
4- if God didn't do it - second creation theory - second creator - someone else made evil - man made evil - or evil does not exist
Free will is a choice. Is choice predictable? Can GOD read free will choices? This question is too mysterious to baffle. If we say no, GOD is not all powerful. If we say yes, that we are not doing free will. So its a problem. Where did evil free will choice come from? Nobody knows. I don't think GOD knows either, but He did make provision for the possibility. There are three concepts in maths, zero, numbers and infinity. God is infinity. We are numbers, And zero is sin in it's ultimate result. Is zero a number? no, doesn't zero exist? no, yet is has to be to allow numbers have certain value. Ponder confusion is all we can do. Would be fun to ask a maths person, like Newton.
5- gap theory
No need for this. God and the angels and some heavenly universe existed long before ours did. But again we ponder confusion, there are really no good texts that speak of this topic.
Shalom
|
|
|
UFO's
Oct 1, 2019 6:06:19 GMT -5
Post by Dave on Oct 1, 2019 6:06:19 GMT -5
I know you are trying real hard to deny the demons that plague this world. David Ike - says, just outside our field of vision, just out side the range of light we call the visible spectrum, are entities that are anything but human that have been manipulation this world form the outside. I believe this This reality - answers - the anti-conspiracy dilemma Why would some one in 1530, or 1680, or 1820 give their lives for a conspiracy (Illuminati, Freemasonry, etc) that they would never be here to see completed. The answer: it isn't the individual humans through history that make the conspiracy - it is the unseen entities that are working through these humans who will see its completion I believe this also άγγελος - It is a male singular word - but is used in English to mean many it does appear in plural forms - but if you ask any one who many άγγελος there are every one will say - more than one ἄρχων - is a feminine plural word - it is always found in its plural form - it doesn't exist in its singular form because that is a different word in the Greek. Yet - you try so hard to prove that it is just singular Eph 6:12 but against the principalities (just one guy), against the powers (just one guy), against the spiritual hosts of wickedness (just one guy) These are plural words because there are more then one This is why the Greek always makes the distinction between the Chief Archon and just the Archon Free Will - We do not agree - ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/391/angels-freeThe Chief Archon was created through the Holy Spirit to test creation It reproduced Fall from Grace - We do not agree here again. If you can loose your salvation, then what does salvation mean. If you say, I believe at 20 ans ask Christ into your heart But at 40, you no longer believe - have you lost your salvation? Have you fallen from Grace? No - you were delusional at 20 and never had either There is a big difference between being a Christian and pretending to be one
|
|
|
UFO's
Oct 1, 2019 6:26:53 GMT -5
Post by Dave on Oct 1, 2019 6:26:53 GMT -5
Greek male endings, Άγγελος Female Greek ending ἀρχῇ - is singluar - origin, beginning - how nay origins can you have only 1 ἄρχων - is always plural - Archon - rulers, principalities, powers - always plural Free Will if if all of the elohiym have Free Will - then what guarantee do you have in prophesy? If the universe can just decide do not follow God - then why dose history look so Biblical? If the angels have free will - maybe they can win in the end. If all the angels ganged up on God they could just do away with scripture all together NO - silly suggestion - God's will is supreme and the universe works just as intended Don't mistake self-determination for Free Will You can choose to respond - but you can not choose to be a god All the elohiym dose what its told - they serve God In Job the satan took his orders from who?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
UFO's
Oct 1, 2019 13:24:38 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 13:24:38 GMT -5
OK we have to unravel the confusion we ponder, I have not heard of this matter before. This is my first experience.
So archon in Greek is always plural. OK thanks for that. Do we agree the term archon means angels (plural)?
One thing I do differently to you is bring every word (in this case Greek archon) back to its Hebrew original meaning. Why? Because Hebrew is the primary language of GOD and Greek is only a translation of the primary, but as some have noted it is inspired too, and to be respected. But if GOD conceals confusion and mysteries for a reason, which language do we begin with and trust first. It has to be Hebrew. How can I know this for sure?
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Paul uses this verse to say, when you have another language , translate it so others are edified properly. This also applies to the written language. How can be edify Greek speakers of their inspired word, if we do not hear amid the confusion?
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Well we could do as you do, read the Greek carefully, line upon line, a little here and a little there, and render the meaning carefully. Sounds good.
But if this verse says the Hebrew goes out into Greek as a new tongue for the Gentiles, than we can also render the same language (Greek) back to the older language (Hebrew) and get more harmony.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
And studying line upon line in the Hebrew, a little here and there, we should also come up with the same understanding, as in the Greek language.
If we don't, the former cannot be wrong, its the latter that must be, as Scripture (both OT Hebrew and NT Greek) has to be fully inspired regardless of the language.
This also implies to bringing in other writings as you do, Jewish Talmud, Koran and so forth.
The Greek word archon is always plural. OK. The related word in Hebrew is "sar" or prince, or "king" or "ruler" and these can be singular.
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince "archon" of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Why is this singular?
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince "archon" of this world is judged.
Why is this singular?
Ac 7:35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler (archon) and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler (archon) and a deliverer by the hand of the angel (messenger) which appeared to him in the bush.
37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
Ac 7:51 ¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Ac 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
If you read this last plea of Stephen, Jesus is the archon here, the archon we serve who is a messenger (not an cherub) in the burning bush, that the Jews rejected.
Again the term archon is singular.
1Co 2:6 ¶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes (archon plural) of this world, that come to nought: 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes (archon plural) of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. In a secular reference to archon as a plural, other kings and powerful people on earth, had they of known about Jesus as an archon, or king, they would have respected Him fully.
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince (archon) of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Who brings disobedience ? The Holy Spirit or the Archon (or archons) via the medium of the Holy Spirit ? The medium of GOD might uphold the world of dysfunction, but does NOT cause the evil to flow through it, that comes directly from the archons and the prince of darkness, ie the first angel who fell, hence a prince archon.
ON your thread of angels
I see "quote" No one fell to earth – no one cane to earth – the bane elohiym were already here
I get the impression the "angels are termed bane elohiym" Where does this idea come from?
Quote: v4 The Nephilim – these are the children of bane elohiym and the daughters of Adam Demi-god – 1/2 man and ½ god (bane elohiym)
How is this possible?
Quote: "Gnostic literature and the Koran both say – The Jinn/Archon had dominion over the earth first – then came Adam and usurped it – took it over = angelic jealousy
Where does Scripture say earth was created for archons? and man came later? Creation says in 6 literal days, than man came along. Again the Hebrew word "yom" means relative time on earth, evening and morning. 24 hours of earth relative time to earth. Schroeder says time relative to where GOD stood is a different matter. But if the archons sat on earth in those first 5 days, time relative to them is still 5 periods of time as 24 hours, relative to GOD a totally different time, as time is relative to where one is located.
Quote: " The Creator made the elohiym - they praise God and do his bidding
What is this?
The word "elohiym" only ever applies to GOD, as far as I know? Although GOD made Moses into a "family power" (elohiym), and judges are "family powers", I don't know of angels referenced in this way?
The Hebrew says cherub were created, but not as "elohiym". No reference.
Quote:"The female - Holy Spirit made the Archon - to test creation
No. The archons or angels were created for GOD's glory, as love is relational, and thus love requires relational Beings. This implies relational beings have to have free will to choose love or not. Otherwise love is not love, and you have no love or loving at all, only robotic programs, and DNA code that is programmed to love is not love.
If you look at all the Hebrew places where cherub is mentioned, only Ezekial 28 explains.
A covering cherub was perfect but one day found with sin. What is that? a relational being failing to love GOD anymore.
Either GOD is love or God is not love, GOD can't be both. Love is fully functional. Love is never dysfunctional. So why the strange verse ?
I the YHWH engineer dysfunction? What is "RA" ? In Jeff Benner lexicon showing ancient pictographs the word means "Head twisted" What head? God and man's and the archons. Twisted means the cords of the DNA are no longer straight, but bound in opposite ropes of confusion. In a perfect world will we need twisting of DNA, to escape more dysfunction? no. The DNA strands will be straight, and only one copy will be required and less hiding of the information to protect it. Can GOD engineer a universe with the ability to exist on "less love power" and still exist as a whole. Yes, our universe is finely tuned, 120 decimal places of precision to allow GOD to be far away, and still allow Beings to choose less love if they want to.
As science people we can predict the DNA should contain code, in the event of dysfunction coming, create more DNA code to buffer and protect the vital code of living, twist and make 4 copies, and protect the strands with more protein. But we wee so called smart people have not even begun to read the DNA code at all. Not even started much. Originally the code strand was one strand, shorter and smaller. How many? 24 strands possibly.
When was this virtual universe set up? When the archons sinned.
Pr 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Before earth was created. The Shadday set up the Holy Spirit (a medium administration of the Shadday) so the universe could exist with fallen angels in it.
That makes sense to me, from Hebrew scripture. But I am not sure of other sources of writings. Shalom
|
|
|
UFO's
Oct 1, 2019 18:23:35 GMT -5
Post by Dave on Oct 1, 2019 18:23:35 GMT -5
No - άγγελος means angel – άγγελοι means angels ἄρχων means Archon
άγγελος - means angels and άγγελοι means angels
IMO – bane elohiym = ἄρχων = agl δαιμονίζομαι, which is different than just διάβολος Explained below
Had to be here first to test Adam and Eve (your verse) Pr 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Mathew Henry’s Commentary of Pr 8:25 That it is an intelligent and divine person that here speaks seems very plain, and that it is not meant of a mere essential property of the divine nature, for Wisdom here has personal properties and actions; and that intelligent divine person can be no other than the Son of God himself, to whom the principal things here spoken of wisdom are attributed in other scriptures, and we must explain scripture by itself.
Some have jobs – tending stars and orbits – (hope they do quit their jobs) some are around the throne – some interact with man Enoch and Paul both speak of the praise becoming louder and louder as they came closer to the Lord
First Book of Adam and Eve 8:1 THEN Adam wept and said, "O God, when we dwelt in the garden, and our hearts were lifted up, we saw the angels that sang praises in heaven, but now we do not see as we were used to do; nay, when we entered the cave, all creation became hidden from us." 8:2 Then God the Lord said unto Adam, "When thou wast under subjection to Me, thou hadst a bright nature within thee, and for that reason couldst thou see things afar off. But after thy transgression thy bright nature was withdrawn from thee; and it was not left to thee to see things afar off, but only near at hand; after the ability of the flesh; for it is brutish."
WHAT? - 'elohiym - Plural of אֱלוֹהַּ (H433) - The KJV translates Strong's H430 in the following manner: God (2,346x), god (244x), judge (5x), GOD (1x), goddess (2x), great (2x), mighty (2x), angels (1x), exceeding (1x), God-ward (with H4136) (1x), godly (1x). (plural)
rulers, judges, divine ones, angels, gods, (plural intensive - singular meaning = god (small g), goddess, godlike one, works or special possessions of God, the (true) God
For me – God = el Trinity + angels + Archon = elohiym
No - άγγελος were created to praise and serve ἄρχων were created to test creation Both for God’s Glory
Ezk 38 (and Isa 14 if you must) are about
The Gospel of the Egyptians Eleleth spoke: "Let someone reign over the chaos and Hades." And there appeared a cloud whose name is hylic Sophia [...] She looked out on the parts of the chaos, her face being like [...] in her form [...] blood. And the great angel Gamaliel spoke to the great Gabriel, the minister of the great light Oroiael; he said, "Let an angel come forth, in order that he may reign over the chaos and Hades." Then the cloud, being agreeable, came forth in the two monads, each one of which had light. [...] the throne, which she had placed in the cloud above. Then Sakla, the great angel, saw the great demon who is with him, Nebruel. And they became together a begetting spirit of the earth. They begot assisting (Archon).
Names do not matter – just as a rose by any other name is still the same angel or Archon
A trinity of evil – The Chief Archon, The dragon The Gnostic overseer that restrains the dragon – διάβολος , the satan And the children of the dragon / Chief Archon the bane elohiym = ἄρχων = agl δαιμονίζομαι , Archon, demons
Answer me this – earth is a reflection of heaven above – correct?
On earth – one of the 12 disciples – sinned – so the Gospel could be written In Egypt – Pharaoh was used by God – so the Torah could be written In heaven – one angel volunteered to oversee the chaos in hell Why? – so the dragon could be restrained to give mankind a fighting chance
Sunday School story – Jesus walks into a congregation. From the podium He asked for volunteers for a vital mission in the word’s work. Everyone frantically raises their hand. Jesus calls on an old lady in the front row. Jesus asked, ‘are you ready to serve the Lord?’ The old lady cries in passion – of course Lord – anything
Jesus says, OK – go forth and be Cain OH No Lord – anything but that So Jesus says, OK – go forth and be Jonah again the Lady begged – please something else Jesus finally say, it too late – go forth - Judas
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
Then why isn’t your view the common Hebrew cultural mind-set or the Rabbinic view
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
UFO's
Oct 2, 2019 1:44:46 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2019 1:44:46 GMT -5
I am getting a bit confused Dave Angels or cherubs are aggelos. OK and archons are archons. OK. I get your idea. Quote: "Trinity + angels + Archon = elohiym You didn't like me saying in the context of GOD, "elohiym" is only about GOD. You list Elohiym as Trinity + angels + archon. But angels are created, creatures. Cannot be anything to do with elohiym as a divine family kind. As for archon, let's see, who are they? Mt 9:34 He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils. What does this verse mean? Mt 12:24 but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. What does this verse mean? Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. Whom is Jesus referring to? Which archon? Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. What is this archon looking for in Jesus? Is it not any sinning? Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Who is this archon of earth, who looks for sins in Jesus, and his followers? Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: You didn't comment on the function of a medium. What does Medium mean? How does this relate to archon and the Holy Spirit? Who is responsible for evil among humans? In other words ruling over them? Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Weave this verse in the above questions. Few understand what a medium does. When you look into a magnifying glass and cause the object to be upside diminished but real, who is causing the affect? You, the archon, the Holy Spirit, or GOD the Father? It has to be you in relationship to Archon. The Father via the Holy Spirit, via the medium does not cause the medium's affect, its you and your relationship to Archon, that directly causes the affect. The medium only allows your free will choice to be manifested. Ac 7:35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush. You didn't comment, that Jesus is an archon. That is a significant statement. Because the Hebrew says more on archon, in the Hebrew: Da 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. Who is this archon behind Persia who opposed the angel talking to Daniel, who speaks also of Michael one the chief archons for GOD (also known as Jesus)? Da 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. Here is some prophecy that Jesus the archon of angels (host) is cast down by some religious system, claiming to represent Jesus on earth, and forgive sins on behalf of Jesus. Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince (archon) of Peace. Can you check that the LXX has this Greek word please? I am hoping Jeff Benner is correct with sar=archon. The verse proves Jesus is a chief archon for GOD. There does NOT seem to be a Bible verse that links archon to angel, or to Opponent, the Hebrew word satan. We do know the covering cherub sinned, and was created by GOD to be perfect. My Quote: " Either GOD is love or God is not love, GOD can't be both Your quote" Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things. 1Sa 16:14 ¶ But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. The Bible alone has to answer complex mysteries. This gives a clue. The Holy Spirit leaves administrating love from GOD to Saul, and the Satanic angels administrates Saul's mind ruling over him, via the Holy Spirit who still functions as a medium, but no longer rules directly over Saul's mind. This is how I se this verse. How do you see it? Are you saying that the Holy Spirit empowers a hatred towards GOD, if you choose to hate GOD? You seem to say the archons test humans. This implies the archons are allowed to uphold chaos? Your model of GOD seems to be saying GOD is the author of love and hate, or good and bad, or evil and righteousness? That the fall of Adam was part of God's design, that evil is a part of GOD. Is this idea correct? Than why have a testing at all? Why have a Saviour saving us from sins. If sins are a part of GOD's design, there is no real reason to have a Saviour save us from sin. What is sin anyway to you? If chaos is a part of God's design, so is sin isn't it? Some general questions: How much of the gnostic books are inspired ? Your opinion. gnosis.org/naghamm/goseqypt.htmlThe Nag Hammadi Library The Gospel of the Egyptians Translated by Alexander Bohlig and Frederik Wisse I have a page of this book you quoted: Is this book a part of your belief system? gnosticteachings.org/books-by-samael-aun-weor/the-pistis-sophia-unveiled/1541-chapter-1.htmlThe Gnostic Bible: The Pistis Sophia Unveiled, a book by Samael Aun Weor Chapter 1 Written by Samael Aun Weor Category: The Gnostic Bible: The Pistis Sophia Unveiled Created: 06 February 1983 What about this book, has inspired is it to you? I find reading these books weird. Really weird. Not like Hebrew scriptures at all. I thought I would ask your opinion first. I can see why confusion of archon or sar, is possible. I do not follow Jewish Rabbi or Jews, just because I read Hebrew. I study my Bible as it reads, sola scriptoria. This includes the NT in Greek is read through Hebrew eyes. Now some comments on archon, your making this term as a unique Being in the eternity past. The term is more like a title, than a Being, as a kind. Humans are a kind, monkeys a different kind. And the three family members of divinity a different kind, known as elohiym. Archon is not a kind, nor a name for a being. It's a title. How do I know this? because it references humans, Jesus and magristrates as archon. Cherub is a Being as a kind. We know one cherub sinned and was created. We also know this about Jesus, as a archon, he challenged the archon of earth. His opponent. You did not comment upon the two saraphs made for a pole, one look caused the snake bitten person to be saved. Here must be the contest. Obedience to rulers. Which one do you choose? Your model about archon upholding chaos, must also test humans to sin. Makes sin a part of God's design. This does not make a GOD of love, but a GOD of love and hate, or testing and resting, of evil and good. Why did testing and archons come to humans in the first place? just because they were jealous? Can archons sin and still live forever? Is this your view? So if all humans are going to be saved? Why does witnessing matter? what is it's purpose? Why bother what you living is like. Why even Hitler is saved? Your view is strange? Ge 3:1 ¶ Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast... Why doesn't this say "sar" or "archon" ? Why subtil? Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: In your model the archon is speaking truth, nobody ever dies? Do you really believe this? And if archon is part of GOD's design, to test humans, than the archon lied. Lying is a sin. So your saying GOD doesn't mind people sinning? So why did Jesus have to die? Your website never really answered the question, but your the only person on the Internet who tries to answer the question. We do answer this question, you have read our stuff once before. I support that archon lied, and will experience eternal non-existence one day. The contest is between Satan and Jesus, both archons, both saraphs, one a creature, one is divine. Satan was jealous of Christ, because He had meetings with the Provider while the chief angel wasn't invited. Sin came from a free will choice that had gone wrong. Shalom
|
|
|
UFO's
Oct 2, 2019 9:32:12 GMT -5
Post by Dave on Oct 2, 2019 9:32:12 GMT -5
Sounds like blasphemy El - singular elohiym is a plurality not singular You need to ask a Rabbi – I cannot help you with this – elohiym is translated as more than just God the Father Zep 2:11 Jehovah will be terrible unto them; for he will famish all the gods (elohiym) of the earth; and men shall worship him, every one from his place, even all the isles of the nations. 1Ki 11:5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess (elohiym) of the Sidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. Jdg 2:19 But it came to pass, when the judge was dead, that they turned back, and dealt more corruptly than their fathers, in following 'other gods' (elohiym) to serve them, and to bow down unto them; they ceased not from their doings, nor from their stubborn way. YES – the ἄρχων appear in the NT as δαιμονίζομαι And as we see in The Gospel of the Egyptians – because of whatever happened in the Gap One άγγελος volunteered to oversee the ἄρχων / δαιμονίζομαι as the satan or διάβολος It is the overseer, satan or διάβολος job to restrain the Chief ἄρχων and the ἄρχων / δαιμονίζομαι Ezk 38 is about this one singular άγγελος Gen 1:1 Whatever happened in the Gap happen too quickly – or it is just the first in a cycle of ages / anions Contest reset Something happened between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2 Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/393/gnostic-sermon-all-point-creator#ixzz61ClnIKryGen 1:2 The ἄρχων had dominion over creation until v27 Adam and the ἄρχων co-existed on earth for 7 generations Contest is reset At the Tower of Babel, man took the war back to the ἄρχων Contest reset Israel has its turn with Rephiem and the ἄρχων they worship Christ is Resurrected – Contest reset Christianity has its turn with Rephiem and the ἄρχων they worship Today – that looks like Judeo-Christendom vrs Muslims following Allah Soon the promise of yet another – Contest reset The ἄρχων are plural – they are everywhere – Please watch this video – I gain strength from it as a Gnostic Christian Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/393/gnostic-sermon-all-point-creator#ixzz61ClIBuU4God made everything – period – factHe made this paradigm of TOV/RA On the extremes of that paradigm you have: Christ, negentropy, remembrance, hope, Jesus, salvation – TOV Holy Spirit, entropy, forgetfulness, doubt, the Chief Archon, damnation - RA Why the paradigm? – to see if you love God with all you heart, mind, and soul All of creation is being sorted out – those who love God vrs those who prefer creation NO – would you wrap your Christian faith only around the commentary of Catholic Priest? Would you use the Commentary by Adam Clark as your Bible? The NT Canon is a highly edited text – yet spring to 2000 types of Christians (registered denominations in America) The collection of Gnostic literature = the Christian Mid Rash So much stuff is collected together – some good – some outrageous Even at the Gnostic Temple in Seattle, I could not watch some of their videos Almost as if man has been programmed NOT to see the truth of reality Even in Judeo-Christianity the range of cosmology goes from the Jewish grave, where we are just asleep – to – you are already burning in hell Baptist and you better get yourself out of the fire with no chance of escape For my salvation – for building my faith – I only care you know what it says to me. What is my calling? How can I serve the Lord, if I don’t take my instruction from the Lord? Example – When I meet my maker. He says, I asked you to keep the Sabbath, why didn’t you Will my excuse that some charismatic man said I should follow the Sunday law instead work? This is why I declare – I am not a Catholic, a Protestant, a Presbyterian, or a Jew I am just a Christian I have a my copy of the Nag Hammadi I also have a collection of things, Zohar, Enoch, more I spent a lot of time with the Book of Creation 90-98 I worked in Warsaw, Indiana. Most of my staff was college kids from Grace College and Seminary. Through them I found the college library and spent hours in the Mid Rash. I have always wanted my own copy, but I am not paying that much money for a set of books. I made a deliberate effort to read some of the earliest church writings Origen for example and I have tried to learn as much as I can about Valentinus I love reading Coptic essays – I have my own Koran – Islam is 1/3 of the Abrahamic religion – it is an error to dismiss it Islam is the biggest ground level test of Judeo-Christianity today and we don’t even know our enemy The Chief ἄρχων is a single being The overseer, satan or διάβολος, is a single άγγελος – who volunteered The ἄρχων and the δαιμονίζομαι are many – perhaps your 1/3 The Serpent Race is a common reference to the Archon The Serpent Race is common American Indian folklore It was the snake people that took the Anasazi underground to survive that last earth change It was the snake people that brought them back above ground to restart civilization ½ of the UFO community is consumed by the Reptilians A mean and nasty race of aliens that have zero empathy for humanity In fact – the UFO story says they Greys are here to restrain the Reptilians from destroying us These two alien races are at war out there in space The Greys have bases on the moon and North and South Poles And the Reptilians have underground bases in Saturn, the Himalayan Mountains, and American West Why subtle – deception is the toolSome say, they would believe if God would just show them a sign (Koran) It goes both ways – If God peaked out from behind a cloud to prove his existence All would fall to the ground and worship God If the devil identified himself as the prince of RA All would fall to the ground and worship God Instead - the devil says - let's be Roman catholic and pray to saints and Popes, if you kiss the foot of the Madonna wile praying it will help. Instead - the devil says - let's be Protestant and evil doesn't exist Instead - the devil says - let be Mormon and bow to 'The other Testament of Jesus Christ' Instead - the devil says - God has no Son and Allah rule over all the gods Or the devil puts on his white lab coat and says - Evolution prove God doesn't even exist Why subtle – deception is the tool
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
UFO's
Oct 2, 2019 13:34:31 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2019 13:34:31 GMT -5
The video doesn't say much about archons, it's really too shallow for anything. Maybe good for people stuck in the matrix. I know about the Masons who control our control systems. Walter Veith says much about this in great detail. I get the impression you agree with this statement of mine:- Your model about archon upholding chaos, must also test humans to sin. Makes sin a part of God's design. This does not make a GOD of love, but a GOD of love and hate, or testing and resting, of evil and good.
God made everything – period – fact He made this paradigm of TOV/RA
On the extremes of that paradigm you have: Christ, negentropy, remembrance, hope, Jesus, salvation – TOV Holy Spirit, entropy, forgetfulness, doubt, the Chief Archon, damnation - RA
Why the paradigm? – to see if you love God with all you heart, mind, and soul All of creation is being sorted out – those who love God vrs those who prefer creation
God made everything : period: fact, including RA, evil etc. www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnUOLbHRQ8E Only takes a few minutes, written and spoken in German because Einstein was German. Evil does not exist. It is a condition when people live with less of GOD' love in their lives. It is made manifest on the MEDIUM. Something you seem not to understand. For your model, GOD can come down face to face and talk to man, because evil and chaos and archons are all a part of GOD. Scripture does NOT teach this. Man would vanish immediately in the direct presence of GOD. So how did Jesus in his former glory speak to Abram in his tent face to face, and Abram not perish? MEDIUM properties. Ge 17:1 ¶ And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. How many divine Beings appeared to Abram here? Two. Not one. The Shadday functions as a Medium to allow divinity to speak face to face with humanity, and man not perish. How is this achieved? MEDIUM properties. The Shadday also can project the WIND, a function called Holy Spirit, in which the powers of the Father enter and leave the Medium changed to suit whatever dysfunctional state is required. This natural property can be observed through lens, mirrors and water. Wind is defined as a Medium property, ie energy moved via air as a media. Consider some things the Father cannot do: Nu 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; Therefore GOD cannot sin either, for lying is a sin. Since this is encoded into the Father's ten directions concerning love. God cannot hate, the opposite of love. God cannot bow down to other family powers. God cannot tolerate technology or other engineering which profess to "save" people, whatever this term "Save" means... God cannot be an empty storm. God makes His promises good. God is relational. God cannot be alone from other members of divinity. God is family. God cannot be alone, as self is alone, and does not exist in GOD's true world. God does not wound. God doesn't kill. God only edifies with word. Some passages in Scripture are difficult to define, God's strange act, for instance. If GOD empowers living, GOD can take that living away. Such an act is not wounding you, to allow you to continue living would be only wounding you more. This strange act of living and not living, is difficult to fathom. God cannot break relationship. Only your free will of choice can. You choose. Pride is the action of breaking relationship. God cannot be proud. God is only ever humble. Your brothers watcher, Your family keeper. God cannot destroy property that belongs to you rightfully. Character is the only thing or property we get from GOD that GOD cannot own. It's yours only. but your character comes from GOD to begin with, so character is not yours either. Its a cooperative , a community based concept. That's why character as property is valuable to GOD, You are his witness that love works, and that GOD is true. Material property is never yours. Creation is GODs, but your His steward. Character comes from relationship of creation with divinity. God cannot lie. God's words are true, logical and reasonable. The last direction of love is about the desire for GOD. Love is all there is. Chaos and sin and hate and less amounts of love, is not love. It is a continuum of walking away from God's power of love so you experience less of His love. Your model is very strange. Can I test your ideas please? The chief archon you speak of that volunteered to test humans so that could love GOD more and more. What is his ultimate fate? Does he continue to live forever? Does this world and it's present condition continue for another thousand years? Is there a second coming of Jesus in your model, is there a third coming of Jesus in your model to end all this chaos, and end the chief archon for eternity? For me, the chief archon and his pretend world of chaos will end forever, and he will become non-existent forever, and all those who refuse to experience God's love, will also cease to exist. In your quest to ponder confusion, how do you know which scared writings to follow? Which gives you the true condition of GOD, which are inspired and which are not? Ge 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. The term " ben elohiym" means what? Do evil things have sex with humans? As some allude? Ie the video also allude to this? Can the DNA of another kind have sex with another kind? No, GMO might be possible though. A ruler can cause epi-genetics to follow though. Job 1:6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Here is the same term "ben elohiym" ... Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? "ben elohiym" here again, referenced to stars... Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: "ben elohiym" here, true followers become sons of God. Where is this idea further stated? Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Here Ga 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Here 1Jo 3:1 ¶ Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: Here Eph 3:14 ¶ For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, Elohiym is a family here, Sons of Elohiym are added to his family. No mentioned of angels, in any of these passages. Thus the Genesis refers to true followers of GOD becoming more off the track... Why are they becoming more dysfunctional? Wanting less of God's love in their lives? Because the chief archon is ruling over them. Shalom
|
|