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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2022 18:55:55 GMT -5
D"WHAT! – What happened to you 6 24hr days? Mr Consistant R" war in heaven is outside of Creation Week, happened long before Creation, where technically time did not exist, at least our earth time, that is.
So I am consistent.
D"THERE YOU GO – THE ARCHON ARE NOT IN HEAVEN! They a created bilogical beings within physical creation
R: They were in heaven once, now on earth, are they still under the control of an angel?
D"YES – (yester ra) creatures do havoc on man R" Yes under the direct control of Uriel an Angel. How pathetic, GOD not only creates such creatures to rape man, both men and women, he has angels to control the process. You really do have a weird theology? No love here....
How does the angel programmed to praise and do Yester Tov, suddenly now controls the creatures of yester ra, not do yester ra within the angel, in the process?
Oh so it's tov to do ra now is it? Angels are allowed to control the raping creatures, as this is doing God's will? Oh I see....
Again your religion is so weird.
D" Cows push the fence down – eat your garden Deer live in the corn field ruining your crops Terminates are in your house destroying your erquity Parisites invade you food and body R" Twist. yes these creatures have programs from spoilers spoiling them, the DNA runs havoc, caused by God cursing creation when Adam sinned. The genetic potential "aven" within all animals too, the propensities pick up mutational changes and errors in the code, affecting cognitive behaviour, making the free will to love and be loved become distorted. SO the animals run havoc. Question: How did this aven get to be spoiled? only by natural means? Not only by natural means, maybe the Spoiler spoiled some genes on purpose. We do not know.
But when sin invaded God's creation, no TOV creature is controlling the process, unlike your view.
Explain to me how yester ra creature can build the temple doing yester TOV? Your theories are weird? D"So serious – why is this your reoccurring example – you you have SIN you need to confess There was no rape in the Gen 6 story – the archon changed their form to be receptive to the women R" Perhaps we need to define rape, and spoiling of the human soul when SIN enters in. In Chinese pictures guilt is a heart full of devil. A being enters in and spoils the human soul. This is what sexual abuse is. One taking over another. Now we have two masters inside the human soul where there used to be one master, GOD in partnership to you. Now we have another elohiym power kicking God out and this power is making you fully worship it, the devil.
D"Where – you read what you want it to say R" OK what did it read to you? "ruler of the world" Who is He? Is this now an opposing elohiym power?
Again you hardly write your discussion, brief Dave so I have to ask over and over in another post.... so serious.... how can a creature doing only yester ra, controlled by angels, suddenly be termed my Messianic Messengers a "RULER of the world"?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 29, 2022 22:42:45 GMT -5
D"THERE YOU GO – THE ARCHON ARE NOT IN HEAVEN! They a created biological beings within physical creation R: They were in heaven once, - and kicked out upon have its very first thoughR: They were in heaven once, - kicked out immediately after their creationnow on earth, - AGEED – they are created beings within physical creation and – they occupy they occupy our 3D reality – but are invisible “just outside our field of vision are entities – anything but human – and they have been manipulating our world from the outside for eons … some people call then demonic, some call them the serpent race, Islam calls them Jinn” – David Ike Hebrew calls them shedim – and the Greek calls them archon are they still under the control of an angel? – YESyoutu.be/LO1VVxqYN4I]Solomon & The Demon Ornias : Testament of Solomon (Part 1) | Christian Mythology & Demonology6:20 - The arch-angel Uriel is in control over the demons youtu.be/P6eoeIrvYbE]Solomon & The Demons Onoskelis & Beelzebub: Testament of Solomon (Part 2): DemonologyThe Gospel of the Egyptians - NHL After five thousand years, the great light Eleleth spoke: "Let someone reign over the chaos and Hades." And there appeared a cloud whose name is hylic Sophia [...] She looked out on the parts of the chaos, her face being like [...] in her form [...] blood. And the great angel Gamaliel spoke to the great Gabriel, the minister of the great light Oroiael; he said, "Let an angel come forth, in order that he may reign over the chaos and Hades." Then the cloud, being agreeable, came forth in the two monads, each one of which had light. [...] the throne, which she had placed in the cloud above are they still under the control of an angel? – YESGnostic a volunteer stood up to reign over the chaos – an overseer Judaism calls him the angel Uriel--------------- D"YES – (yester ra) creatures do havoc on man Cows trample your garden (yester ra) – selfish survival Mice raid your cupboards (yester ra) selfish survival Termites destroy your home (yester ra) selfish survival Parasites invade your food and body (yester ra) selfish survival Bacteria infect your wounds (yester ra) selfish survival Baboon would love to rearrange your furniture (yester ra) worldly fun Baboons would have fun breaking all your china (yester ra) worldly fun R" Twist. yes these creatures have programs from spoilers spoiling them, Question: How did this aven get to be spoiled? So you claim all animals are evil and filled with ‘aven’Then God blessed them by saying, “Be fruitful and multiply Why do you teach God created only evil creatures and commanded them to be ‘aven’ Nonsense – it is just (yester ra) selfish survival Explain to me how yester ra creature can build the temple doing yester TOV?Digging the ground = ra – to desire to dig the ground = (yester ra) – world Carving the blocks is = ra – to desire to carve the stone = (yester ra) - world Stacking the stone = ra – to desire to stack the stones = (yester ra) - world ALL so you can PREACH from the temple (Jer 1:5) (yester tov) – God It is a simple concept that every 12 year old Jewish boy and girl could teach Again you hardly write your discussion, brief Dave so I have to ask over and over in another post.... so serious.... how can a creature doing only yester ra, controlled by angels, suddenly be termed my Messianic Messengers a "RULER of the world"?YES – the Beast = (yester ra) selfish – self-preservation – survival The Beast = the serpent race = the Archon = the principalities = the devils = and the satanas They are the rulers of this world because it is their kingdom – they domain – their home They were here FIRST – Gen 1:2 – before man YES – both Judaism and Gnostic say – they have an overseer – to keep them in check Scan back to 3 years ago – I said the same thing then – as I say now
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2022 15:54:21 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
Your Gnostic "christian" religion is totally different to the Moses-Christian religion, though you try to add and mix a little Hebrew torah into it, it is essentially TOTALLY different to the Moses torah. I will prove this to you, but it's OK if you follow a religion made up and invented by man, just letting you know.
You mentioned from previous post
"There is no sin a sinner can do that opposes the Father"
Now your say
"The angel Uriel completely controls the SHAD, even on the earth.
You also say the SHAD once formed was immediately kicked out of heaven.
Questions"
1) Why was the SHAD first formed in heaven to begin with, no mention of creatures on earth created in heaven and later moved to earth? Why is the SHAD treated differently?
2) Why does Scripture term this a war, involving Michael and a host of angels waring over the SHAD leader and a host of of the SHAD creatures (plural) ? Why use the term war?
3) And how can a SHAD get a host of other SHAD so suddenly, you use the term immediately.... so let me get this right tens of millions of SHAD was made some how as a host but they all immediately were kicked out of heaven?
4) Why were they kicked out? What did they do wrong? ------------------------
These questions follow from your idea that Uriel controls the SHAD at all times, under the directions of the Father.
Scripture says this Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
5) Explain how the SHAD are allowed to "rule" when in fact "Uriel" rules, but the Scriptures never imply this?
So now we have Three ruling over the human soul,
a) Jesus from the directions of the Father, via the HS b) Self from the directions of the SHAD, via Uriel
6) I don't see the SHAD ruling freely at all. Please explain.
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
7) Why are the SHAD judged if they are controlled by Uriel?
8) Why is the SHAD cast out a second time? Why did they get cast out a first time? Obviously for the same reason they were cast out the first time and now the second time? Which is what?
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
9) Explain why the SHAD are interested in Jesus if they are controlled by Uriel? Interested in what, if Jesus sinned?
10) Explain how a human can sin if controlled by Uriel who allows the SHAD to tempt the human to sin? Is this a fair contest? No, why than does Uriel allow some evils that are totally unfair? In fact the FATHER is actually allowing depravity and evil to rule on earth intentionally... sick idea... Father is not a god of love, but also a controller of evil, and allows evil to come... This idea is really saying if the Shad are controlled by GOD, than GOD is pushing the RA unto humans to SIN, and controlling the process every step of the way.... how is this fair or even free will? What free will about it?
11) It's like this, you love your wife, but you also hire a hit man to tempt her to have sex with him, to try the faithfulness of your wife, and you get reports every day how it's going, until the wife is seduced by your hit man. How is this fair to your wife, especially if she finds out your planned this all along? She will hate you so intensely because you are not loving her freely but expect her to love you freely?
12) So when people ask why does God allow bad things to happen to good people, you can reply because God controls the bad and allows the bad to test your free will to love Him more? Will that allow the human to love God more?
13) The serial rapist rapes because God controls the SHad that allows the urge to raping. Who blaming the SHAD for the evil in humans now? Everybody can, and one can also blame God for allowing Uriel to do these things of evil to humans. So one can blame GOD for getting me to fall into adultery, as the temptations were controlled all the time by God, Uriel and the SHAD all along?
14) This is especially true for innocent ones, I ask you is it fair for God to send in a serial raping SHAD to abuse a child who cannot even make decisions for God and has not even learned of the free will properly, like aged 10? Most in society consider this crime very cruel to innocent children, can now squarely blame God for this depravity, according to your view. Explain.
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
15) How can SHAD be judged when they are just programs of yester ra, have no intelligence to repent or love?
16) And why judge them if they have no free will?
Aren't only free will creatures judged?
God judges humans who do ra?
God judges SHAD who do ra?
Yet the SHAD are controlled by Uriel? so there RA is of no consequence?
17) How can the SHAD be thrown into the lake of fire when they only did what Uriel allowed them to do?
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
18) How can SHAD work humans of disobedience, if the SHAD are always controlled by Uriel, and thus by God?
19) So this controlled SHAD process never once opposing the Father, so not once are the SHAD an opposing elohiym power?
So explain to me how humans worship Baal, Zeus and RA, if these are elohiym powers that do not exist as "gods" elohiym powers, just inventions of humans? It says the "spirit" worketh.... humans worship some higher "spirit" than humans? but how is this possible when the SHAD are always controlled by Uriel and thus by God?
20) Where is the opposing elohiym power that is before the Father's face than, in the first of the ten commandments, if the humans set up wood and stone images to a opposing power that cannot ever oppose the Father to begin with? So your view has no basis for sinning, and you cannot explain the transgression of the ten commandments, because you have no opposing sins a sinner can do that ever opposes the Father?
Can you answer every question with discussion please?
Use your GNostic books because the torah does not help here, as you do not support torah at all, as I see?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 30, 2022 21:01:22 GMT -5
Your Gnostic "christian" religion is totally different to the Moses-Christian religion, Roman Christendom though you try to add and mix a little Hebrew torah into it, it is essentially TOTALLY different to the Moses torah.
I will prove this to you, You mentioned from previous post 1-"There is no sin a sinner can do that opposes the Father" YES – I said this – and I stand by this The Creator is Absolute – no one – no angel – no man – no other god can oppose the Creature Judaism 101 Anyone who thinks they can oppose god are just delusional -
2- Now your say "The angel Uriel completely controls the SHAD, even on the earth. The only way you seem to be able to defend your satan is to misrepresent others 1- Beelzebul needed Uriel permission to appear to King Solomon 2- Gnostic says – to keep the chaos in check – an angel volunteered to reign over the chaos
What a Biblical theme – over and over – God changes the limits of interaction between archon and man A- The Garden – the Contest begins B- The Age of Adam archon and man lived side by side → Gen 6 → The Flood – rules of the game changed by God C – Archon and man are separated – many archon are ejected off world – Rules of the game changed by God D – Abraham → Israel - Rules of the game changed by God E - Job – go satan do your worst – BUT YOU CANNOT KILL JOB F - Abraham → Israel → Jesus Christ – Rules of the game changed by God G – Rev 9 – the Rules of the game changed by God H – the Second Coming – the Rules of the game changed again
YES – God have always been in control and sets the LIMITS /Rules of the Contest YES – I stand by this -----------------
You also say the SHAD once formed was immediately kicked out of heaven. 1) Why was the SHAD first formed in heaven to begin with, Christian – the Beast appeared along with physical creation – Rev 12:3 Gnostic – the HS made it on her own and it was flawed – and aborted Jewish – All King Solomon said was – bezeebub was the offspring of an Archangel (clarification – King Solomon never says beelzebul is the Chief Archon – only that beelzebul is in charged of the demons of the levant)
2) Why use the term war? Because the archon were ejected – kicked out – removed
3) And how can a SHAD get a host of other SHAD so suddenly, you use the term immediately.... so let me get this right tens of millions of SHAD was made some how as a host but they all immediately were kicked out of heaven? Actually – the Gnostic text says he fathered offspring for himself within his new domain – the cloud of fire and smoke
4) Why were they kicked out? What did they do wrong? Creatures in the presence of God – praise and serve God Gnostic – because his first and only thought was of self – though he was alone = arrogance
Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Am I supposed to translates this verse into English for you ANYTHING that takes your attention away from the One True God – is your master (other god) mammon / money / wealth / greed /power / or fame
5) Explain how the SHAD are allowed to "rule" when in fact "Uriel" rules, The only thing the archon rule is WORLD – it is their kingdom and King Solomon tells us that have some power over nature – wind / rain / fertility
when in fact "Uriel" rules – your mocking and misrepresentation
So now we have Three ruling over the human soul, - your mocking and misrepresentation
6) I don't see the SHAD ruling freely at all. Please explain. WOW – what ever happened to G2525 – καθίστημι - kathistēmi You came to this forum claiming that your satan god rules all humanity
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 7) Why are the SHAD judged Because they present a ‘False Witness” – choose world – world is all there is – live now because once your dead you are gone because you are just a product of evolution
8) Why is the SHAD cast out a second time? Because they present a ‘False Witness” – choose world – world is all there is – live now because once your dead you are gone because you are just a product of evolution Cast to the Lake of Fire
9) Explain why the SHAD are interested in Jesus Because Jesus = flesh and bone Son of Man just like all men
10) Explain how a human can sin Obey God – obey His commandment – or choose world and disobey / transgress
12) So when people ask why does God allow bad things to happen to good people, you can reply because God controls the bad and allows the bad to test your free will to love Him more? Will that allow the human to love God more?
Judaism 101 Deu 8:2 ... in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not.
11) It's like this, you love your wife, but you also hire a hit man to tempt her to have sex with him, 13) The serial rapist rapes because God controls the SHad 14) This is especially true for innocent ones, I ask you is it fair for God to send in a serial raping SHAD to abuse a child - Explain. Do you have a sexual issue in your life YES – Judaism 101 – God test His people No God never told the archon to rape or even kill – all they do is tug at your (yester ra) man does all the rest on his own
15) How can SHAD be judged when they are just programs of yester ra, Because they present a ‘False Witness” – choose world – world is all there is – live now because once your dead you are gone because you are just a product of evolution
have no intelligence to repent or love? Correct – they have no GUILT – they just do what they do
16) And why judge them if they have no free will? Because they present a ‘False Witness” – choose world – world is all there is – live now because once your dead you are gone because you are just a product of evolution They are worldly creature of this world – and it will all pass away
17) How can the SHAD be thrown into the lake of fire Because they present a ‘False Witness” – choose world – world is all there is – live now because once your dead you are gone because you are just a product of evolution They are worldly creature of this world – and it will all pass away
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 18) How can SHAD work humans of disobedience, if the SHAD are always controlled by Uriel, and thus by God? BECAUSE - ye walked according to the course of this world
19) So this controlled SHAD process never once opposing the Father, so not once are the SHAD an opposing elohiym power? NO the BEAST of Revelation does not oppose God – “… The Beast … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world. …”
So explain to me how humans worship Baal, Zeus and RA, if these are elohiym powers that do not exist as "gods" elohiym powers, just inventions of humans? The ‘other-gods’ of the Levant are 100% real = The reality of the Archon The ‘other gods’ of the Levant are still very real and alive – they just have a different name today YES – all of these are created biological beings of this world Eph 6:12 – OUR REAL STRUGGLE
20) Where is the opposing elohiym power that is before the Father's face than, There is no other god opposing the One true Creator for control of creation There are only created biological creatures of this world pretending to be a god Caesar was a god – according to him – in truth he was a delusional man The other gods of the Levant – ARE NOT THE ONE TRUE GOD – they are delusional (yester ra) creatures of this world
in the first of the ten commandments,
Exo 20:2 “I am Adonai your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Exo 20:3 You shall have no other gods before Me. Exo 20:4 Do not make for yourself a graven image , or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or on the earth below or in the water under the earth. Exo 20:5 Do not bow down to them, do not let anyone make you serve them. For I, Adonai your God, am a jealous God, bringing the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
DO NOT BOW to another god of this world – graven images (world) - God, bringing the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, WOW – really pays to be anti-Semitic
Can you answer every question with discussion please? - easily
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2022 5:25:38 GMT -5
D"YES – I said this – and I stand by this The Creator is Absolute – no one – no angel – no man – no other god can oppose the Creature Judaism 101 Anyone who thinks they can oppose god are just delusional -
R" Perhaps a conflict of ideas, Dave, I am not talking about opposing the Father in terms of might, creative ability, or knowledge, experience or such things....
you do not understand what "chata" is about.
It means "missing" the powers of the Father in your life.
When you do sinning or "missing" your attitude is in fact opposing the Father, and that is what causes the missing of His powers in your life.
The most powerful opposing attitude to GOD is pride.
Now I hope you will agree to my view of reasoning.
This is my view of opposer, the attitude of opposing God's powers of love. Not opposing God in terms of might, experience, creative ability, etc. The function of opposition is the way our relationship to God functions. In an opposing mood, our relationship weakens and we break faith to God. This is what I mean by opposing God, and breaking faith is by definition opposing God.
Now I hope you will agree to my view of reasoning.
D"What a Biblical theme – over and over – God changes the limits of interaction between archon and man R" sorry if I offend, I don't mean to misrepresent your theory
As for God limiting the powers of the opposer , yes I agree
The controversy is controlled so the ruler of sin is fair to rule but also God limits the depravity of the ruler.
Much of your comments A to H, I would agree with many points.
D"YES – God have always been in control and sets the LIMITS /Rules of the Contest YES – I stand by this' R" SO do I. Where I am disturbed is the angels control the creature as if the yester ra is coming from God. Designed by God, controlled by God and created by God.
In other words Gnostic view does not really have a SIN problem, nor a Opposing elohiym power who influences humans to sin as the power also sins. For this reason I totally reject Gnostic views, as it totally alien to Moses torah.
My view of control is the administrator of the medium, the HS, limits the RA and TOV done by both elohiym powers, so the controversy over SIN is fair to both powers. The SINNING the opposing elohiym power does not originate from God, and it's nature is totally foreign to the Father , who is totally TOV with love.
So as you see we have different views. ---------------------------
RP" 1) Why was the SHAD first formed in heaven to begin with? D" Christian – the Beast appeared along with physical creation – Rev 12:3
Gnostic – the HS made it on her own and it was flawed – and aborted Jewish – All King Solomon said was – bezeebub was the offspring of an Archangel (clarification – King Solomon never says beelzebul is the Chief Archon – only that beelzebul is in charged of the demons of the levant)
R" I find it strange the HS creating on her own, and also that it was flawed, aborted. Hence your God cannot make things perfect all the time, so sometimes makes mistakes?
That is a new revelation to me, please explain?
"bezeebub was the offspring of an Archangel" please explain. Unpack.
RP" 2) Why use the term war? D" Because the archon were ejected – kicked out – removed R" That's it? A war to me is a fight over something between both parties?
Don't you consider the opposing elohiym power was trying to establish its own brand new religion in heaven. What would this religion be like?
That is easy to define, because the ten commandments tell us....
1) I am a different elohiym to the Father. I am my own boss. 2) I can make you happy with my own covering of the material world. You do not need God. 3) My words also have powers from SELF. You do not need the words of GOD using faith. 4) I am your rest, be selfish with your time. Forget others, you alone come first. 5) Who needs families and society? Be your own destiny. 6) Who needs salvation? Live a good time while you can. 7) Forget respect, have as must sex as you can, Be a busy bee. 8) Everything you need is yours, just take it. 9) Dog eat dog world, strive to master over others. 10) Covet to be the greatest.
These are the elements of what the war was about, clearly the opposing elohiym power was pushing these 10 rules of attitude, and opposing Gods attitudes of love.
You do not consider this in your answer.
RP " 3) And how can a SHAD get a host of other SHAD so suddenly, you use the term immediately? D"Actually – the Gnostic text says he fathered offspring for himself within his new domain – the cloud of fire and smoke R" SO now you are saying the beast was given time in heaven to grow and do it's thing before the war?
RP" 4) Why were they kicked out? What did they do wrong? D" Creatures in the presence of God – praise and serve God Gnostic – because his first and only thought was of self – though he was alone = arrogance R" Arrogance does not mean sinning to you, so your answer is nebulous. If the human is arrogant we term it a sin because the free will is choosing to Miss the Father's powers of love, but if the beast is arrogant, it is not a sin because the beast has no free will? Why do you change the religion of Moses torah, to develop creatures who seem to sin, but it is not a sin? It makes following the FATHER confusing don't you agree?
RP" 5) Explain how the SHAD are allowed to "rule" when in fact "Uriel" rules, D" The only thing the archon rule is WORLD – it is their kingdom and King Solomon tells us that have some power over nature – wind / rain / fertility
when in fact "Uriel" rules – your mocking and misrepresentation R" Not at all, a ruler is defined to be a ruler and can do whatever he likes, within certain boundaries.
I get the impression Uriel rules, the beast is not ruler with freedoms to rule. Please discuss.
When God said to the Opposer, ALL Job has is in your power, only do not take His life, this implies GOD is limiting the Opposer, but also allows the Opposer to RULE over JOB freely.
I don't get the impression Uriel is allowing this over the Shad?
RP" 6) I don't see the SHAD ruling freely at all. Please explain. D" WOW – what ever happened to G2525 – καθίστημι - kathistēmi You came to this forum claiming that your satan god rules all humanity R" Yes correct, even the Messaniac emails say the ruler rules over the sins of the humans, remember?
But you didn't answer my question...
I don't see the SHAD ruling freely at all. Please explain.
RP" 7) Why are the SHAD judged D" Because they present a ‘False Witness” – choose world – world is all there is – live now because once your dead you are gone because you are just a product of evolution R" But being a false witness is the intentional programming design by God programmed into the creatures, is this NOT right? SO why judge them when they are doing what they are supposed to do and the Father is pleased with their doing yester ra in humans, controlled by Uriel?
Judging a creature is about sins, court case, etc. Please explain, because your theory is shot to pieces.
RP " 8) Why is the SHAD cast out a second time? D" Because they present a ‘False Witness” – choose world – world is all there is – live now because once your dead you are gone because you are just a product of evolution Cast to the Lake of Fire R" That is a weak defense? The first time they got kicked out of heaven is because their religion was impacting the angels who with free will loved God's attitudes of love and didn't want a different bunch of rules ruling other angels. God allowed the brand new religion time to develop fruit and establish itself among the heavenly host, before kcking out the religion.
The second time is the sinning angels are getting humans to sin with the sinning angels, and God is trying to save humans so they sin not, and become sinless. So kicking out the sinning angels a second time is about preserving earth for the sinless humans who do not wish to sin anymore. Your answer is completely different to my view. My view is about the SIN problem and the opposer opposing God's religion based on love.
The opposers religion is based on self.
RP" 9) Explain why the SHAD are interested in Jesus D" Because Jesus = flesh and bone Son of Man just like all men
R" Aren't the SHAD trying to get Jesus to sin? You do not understand that if Jesus had sinned once, the kingdom of SIN with sinning angels would remain forever.
Jesus only had to do some power thing with self, and not use His Father's powers using faith. But Jesus didn't, He always did things in the powers of the Father.
RP" 10) Explain how a human can sin D" Obey God – obey His commandment – or choose world and disobey / transgress R" Humans obey His commandments? But SHAD do not have to obey His commandments? So SHAD cannot sin.
You do not have in your theory that a cow can sin. It's a dumb creature and cannot think morally? Are you sure about that? What does the torah actually suggest?
Ec 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? The verse is not saying the cow cannot make moral decisions, only that its moral decisions do not go upwards.
I see all creatures with sufficient intelligence as having free will, and thus sin as humans sin, but for most animals their missing is based on carnal nature, they do what their carnal nature influences them to do, must the same way humans carnal nature influences us to act like animals too.
By making only humans only have free will, you limit the love and loving of all creations, and you also introduce creatures who "sin" but its not really a "sin". It's confusing.
Our law courts often have crime reduced on "diminished responsibility" cases, and many plead "insanity" so as to escape bigger penalties. It's a mockery on sin and sinning agents of the mind.
RP" 12) So when people ask why does God allow bad things to happen to good people, you can reply because God controls the bad and allows the bad to test your free will to love Him more? Will that allow the human to love God more?
D" Judaism 101 Deu 8:2 ... in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not. R" Yes, but 'Will that allow the human to love God more?
Does testing a human make them love God more?
RP" 11) It's like this, you love your wife, but you also hire a hit man to tempt her to have sex with him, 13) The serial rapist rapes because God controls the SHad 14) This is especially true for innocent ones, I ask you is it fair for God to send in a serial raping SHAD to abuse a child - Explain. D" Do you have a sexual issue in your life YES – Judaism 101 – God test His people No God never told the archon to rape or even kill – all they do is tug at your (yester ra) man does all the rest on his own R" I don't get this impression of a passive SHAD at all, SHAD possession of the human was a real concern in Jesus time. Do you agree with this?
RP " 15) How can SHAD be judged when they are just programs of yester ra, D" Because they present a ‘False Witness” – choose world – world is all there is – live now because once your dead you are gone because you are just a product of evolution R" Judgement is over SINS, not as you are pushing. A creature programmed to do RA, with no free will, cannot be judged... so why is your creature being judged?
Lions are not judged by God for killing many humans?
Nor are snakes judged for killing humans?
So your archons are just creatures of ra, not free will, yet are judged? You answer is weak...
"you are just a product of evolution" I thought you hate "evolution", please explain?
"D"Correct – they have no GUILT – they just do what they do R" OK if its a programmed to do RA, no sins involved, why are the SHAD judged than?
RP" 16) And why judge them if they have no free will? D" cope and paste Dave. no answer
"R" Its a serious question you do not answer.
RP" 17) How can the SHAD be thrown into the lake of fire D" cope and paste Dave. no answer R" Lions that kill humans are not thrown into the Lake of Fire, nor are snakes that killed humans.
Please explain.
RP" 18) How can SHAD work humans of disobedience, if the SHAD are always controlled by Uriel, and thus by God? D" BECAUSE - ye walked according to the course of this world R" weak answer, the SHAD are programmed to walk according the the course of the world, controlled by Uriel and thus the design of their doing has God's approval, does it not?
SO why judge them, throw them into the Fire when the Shad have done what they were supposed to do, and they were controlled by Uriel at every step and thus had Gods approval? Please explain, your theory is shot to pieces.
RP" 19) So this controlled SHAD process never once opposing the Father, so not once are the SHAD an opposing elohiym power? D" NO the BEAST of Revelation does not oppose God – “… The Beast … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world. …” R" You didn't handle my double negative question, you should have answered....
YES the BEAST of Revelation does not oppose God – “… The Beast … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world. …”
in a double negative the YES means you agree with me, that "SHAD never oppose the Father, so not once are the SHAD an opposing elohiym power?"
R" Good I am glad I understand your view on this, but totally disagree with your theory.
19 RP continues" So explain to me how humans worship Baal, Zeus and RA, if these are elohiym powers that do not exist as "gods" elohiym powers, just inventions of humans? D" The ‘other-gods’ of the Levant are 100% real = The reality of the Archon The ‘other gods’ of the Levant are still very real and alive – they just have a different name today R" How is this possible if these are the "reality of the Archon" if they can never be an opposing elohiym power?
D"The ‘other gods’ of the Levant are still very real and alive – they just have a different name today R" Again not possible, because there can never be an opposing elohiym power before the Father, as the beast cannot never establish one, nor are they programmed to do so. I write your view here, not my view.
D"YES – all of these are created biological beings of this world Eph 6:12 – OUR REAL STRUGGLE R" How can it be a struggle if the SHAD are not programmed to establish themselves a opposing elohiym powers, yet you say they do set up religions so explain how this is possible?
RP" 20) Where is the opposing elohiym power that is before the Father's face than? D"There is no other god opposing the One true Creator for control of creation There are only created biological creatures of this world pretending to be a god
R" How can they pretend to be an opposing elohiym power, you said no creature was programmed that way?
Are you saying the Father intentionally programmed different religions to oppose His own religion? Please explain.
D" they are delusional (yester ra) creatures of this world R" How can a programmed creature become delusional? not possible, programs are exact coding that cause actions. The angel that controls them is not delusional either?
D"DO NOT BOW to another god of this world – graven images (world) - R" What gods of the world? How can these come to be if the programmed creatures are not programmed to become elohiym powers with religions that oppose God? Please explain
RP " Can you answer every question with discussion please? D" - easily R" you think? There are many you didn't answer very well and some you ignored. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 31, 2022 11:40:35 GMT -5
D"YES – I said this – and I stand by this The Creator is Absolute – no one – no angel – no man – no other god can oppose the Creature Judaism 101 Anyone who thinks they can oppose god are just delusional - R" Perhaps a conflict of ideas, Dave, I am not talking about opposing the Father in terms of might, creative ability, or knowledge, experience or such things.... YOUR TEACHING HEREYour satan is responsible for Eve’s SIN – it is satan’s fault You teach you satan has the power to rewrite the DNA of all creation You teach your satan has the power to change the diets of all biology into something aven / wicked / unrighteous You teach that your satan rules all men You teach that your satan HATES God – work against God – opposes God’s Will – corruptors God’s Plan on earth – against God’ Will ALL YOU HAVE EVER TAUGHT HERE IS CATHOLIC satan!I am a New Testament Christian – Jesus saidMat 6:24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick by one and look down on the other. You cannot serve God and money.” G3126 - μαμμωνᾶς - mammōnas - Of Chaldee origin (confidence, that is, figuratively wealth, personified); The Beast of Revelation is just a biological being that promotes WORLD – wealth personified Anything that takes you away from God – MONEY – FAME – POWER NO god of evil required – it is just WORLD! I am a New Testament Christian – Gnostic Paul saidEph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers (ARCHON), against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. I am a New Testament Christian – Gnostic Paul saidCol 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers (ARCHON) or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him. ------------------- you do not understand what "chata" is about. It means "missing" the powers of the Father in your life. YES – every time you choose world over obedience – everytime you choose to transgress God’ commandments – you move farther away Now I hope you will agree to my view of reasoning.I DO NOT ACCEPT CATHOLIC SATAN no matter how you try to slip him inThis is my view of opposer, the attitude of opposing God's powers of love. Not opposing God in terms of might, experience, creative ability, etc. The function of opposition is the way our relationship to God functions. In an opposing mood, our relationship weakens and we break faith to God. This is what I mean by opposing God, and breaking faith is by definition opposing God. Blah blah blah – justification – YOU TEACH CATHOLIC satan and FALLEN ANGELS I teach the Beast of Revelation as Jewish satan / shedimD"What a Biblical theme – over and over – God changes the limits of interaction between archon and man R" sorry if I offend, I don't mean to misrepresent your theory As for God limiting the powers of the opposer , yes I agree The controversy is controlled so the ruler of sin is fair to rule but also God limits the depravity of the ruler. I would say – God limits – so the Contest is fair (happens on His terms)------------------------------ D"YES – God have always been in control and sets the LIMITS /Rules of the Contest YES – I stand by this' R" SO do I.Gnostic text says – an angel volunteered to be the overseer King Solomon named the angel Uriel But you cannot understand that angels serve God – you always have to twist it into satanic evilWhere I am disturbed is the angels control the creature as if the yester ra is coming from God. Designed by God, controlled by God and created by God. Robert – I have always answered you seriously I am not sure how to respond to your outrageous statement that you invert out of thin air1- as if the yester ra is coming from God. You refuse to grasp the Jewish teaching of (yester ra) go forth be fruitful – multiply – fill the earth – subdue it – conquer it – have dominion over it and all the beast You teach all animals everywhere are commanded to be aven / wicked / unrighteous YES – (yester ra) is from God – programmed into every biological life form YES – (yester ra) is basic self-preservation and survival of the species YES – (yester ra) in man = instinctive survival + growth / progress / dominion – to achieve You refuse to grasp the Jewish teaching of (yester ra) 2- Where I am disturbed is the angels control the creatureR - As for God limiting the powers of the opposer , yes I agreeWhy does it disturb you that God is in control?------------------- In other words Gnostic view does not really have a SIN problem, You must be joking Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. + Rom 5:19 For just as through the disobedience of one man, many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man, many will be set right forever. nor a Opposing elohiym power who influences humans to sinTHE REALITY OF THE ARCHON = many false gods – many other god’s – some biological – some just material So as you see we have different views.CORRECT – I do not preach Catholic Satan – invented by Rome after the first century I teach Jewish demonology – the demonology of Jesus Christ and His audience = CONTEXT--------------------------- R" I find it strange the HS creating on her own, and also that it was flawed, aborted. Hence your God cannot make things perfect all the time, so sometimes makes mistakes? Your god makes angels perfect in all their ways – until they turn against god. Hence your God cannot make things perfect all the time, so sometimes makes mistakes?
" bezeebub was the offspring of an Archangel" please explain. Unpack.King Solomon asked beelzebul who are you, beelzebul sais he was the child of an archangel In another sentence – beelzebul says he has offspring That is as unpacked as it gets------------------------- RP" 2) Why use the term war? D" Because the archon were ejected – kicked out – removed R" That's it? A war to me is a fight over something between both parties? Don't you consider the opposing elohiym power was trying to establish its own brand new religion in heaven. NO WAY – not two religions in heaven – absolute blasphemyThat is easy to define, because the ten commandments tell us.... 1) I am a different elohiym to the Father. I am my own boss. (yester ra) - SELF2) I can make you happy with my own covering of the material world. You do not need God. (yester ra) WORLD not God 3) My words also have powers from SELF. You do not need the words of GOD using faith. (yester ra) - SELF 4) I am your rest, be selfish with your time. Forget others, you alone come first. (yester ra) - SELF5) Who needs families and society? Be your own destiny. (yester ra) - SELF6) Who needs salvation? Live a good time while you can. (yester ra) – SELF – worldly satisfaction – SELF gratification7) Forget respect, have as must sex as you can, Be a busy bee. (yester ra) – SELF – worldly satisfaction – SELF gratification8) Everything you need is yours, just take it. (yester ra) – SELF – worldly satisfaction – SELF gratification9) Dog eat dog world, strive to master over others. (yester ra) – SELF – worldly satisfaction – SELF gratification10) Covet to be the greatest. (yester ra) – SELF – worldly satisfaction – SELF gratificationThese are the elements of what the war was about, clearly the opposing elohiym power was pushing these 10 rules of attitude, and opposing Gods attitudes of love. YES - AGREE = (yester ra) – SELF – worldly satisfaction – SELF gratification--------- RP " 3) And how can a SHAD get a host of other SHAD so suddenly, you use the term immediately? D"Actually – the Gnostic text says he fathered offspring for himself within his new domain – the cloud of fire and smoke R" SO now you are saying the beast was given time in heaven to grow and do it's thing before the war? TIME – argue it when it fits your needs – deny it when it fits your need TIME IS NOT LINEAR – Time is relativeRP" 4) Why were they kicked out? What did they do wrong? D" Creatures in the presence of God – praise and serve God Gnostic – because his first and only thought was of self – though he was alone = arrogance R" Arrogance does not mean sinning to you, so your answer is nebulous. SELF = (yester ra) – no cows in heaven – no ants in heaven – not termites in heaven – they are physical creature within physical creation --------------------- RP" 6) I don't see the SHAD ruling freely at all. Please explain. D" WOW – what ever happened to G2525 – καθίστημι - kathistēmi You came to this forum claiming that your satan god rules all humanity R" Yes correct, even the Messaniac emails say the ruler rules over the sins of the humans, remember? But you didn't answer my question... I don't see the SHAD ruling freely at all. Please explain. I guess I am not bright enough to understand your question You don’t see the archon ruling – but you teach they rule Is they any way to respond to this?------------ RP" 7) Why are the SHAD judged D" Because they present a ‘False Witness” – choose world – world is all there is – live now because once your dead you are gone because you are just a product of evolution R" But being a false witness is the intentional programming design by God programmed into the creatures, is this NOT right? SO why judge them when they are doing what they are supposed to do and the Father is pleased with their doing yester ra in humans, controlled by Uriel? Judging a creature is about sins, court case, etc. Please explain, because your theory is shot to pieces. You say this because of your FEEL GOOD GOD that only does TOVYou forget / ignore / overlook the 99% that were left in a vacuum without knowing YHWYJudaism / Gnostic teach – this is God’s Plan – God’s Will on earth FIRST – you answer – why did your God of tov only - leave 99% of the globe to false ‘other gods’ There can only be one answer – this is God’s Plan – God’s Will on earth ---------------- RP" 9) Explain why the SHAD are interested in Jesus D" Because Jesus = flesh and bone Son of Man just like all men R" Aren't the SHAD trying to get Jesus to sin?YES – ABSOLUTELY To biological Jesus / flesh (yester ra)/ Son of Man – the devil saidMat 4:5 Then the devil took Him into the holy city and placed Him on the highest point of the Temple. Mat 4:6 “If You are Ben-Elohim,” he said, “throw Yourself down. For it is written, ‘He shall command His angels concerning you,’ and ‘upon their hands they shall lift you up, so that you may not strike your foot against a stone.’” Christ – spirit – Son of God – God incarnate answered (yester tov)Mat 4:7 Yeshua said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put Adonai your God to the test.’” To biological Jesus / flesh / Son of Man – the devil saidMat 4:8 Again, the devil takes Him to a very high mountain and shows Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. Mat 4:9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.” The only thing the devil has to offer is WORLD / WORLD / and WORLD (yester ra) Christ – spirit – Son of God – God incarnate answered (yester tov)Mat 4:10 Then Yeshua says to him, “Go away, satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship Adonai your God, and Him only shall you serve.’ Jesus only had to do some power thing with self, and not use His Father's powers using faith. But Jesus didn't, He always did things in the powers of the Father. CORRECT – I AGREEMat 26:39 Going a little farther, He fell face down and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me! (yester ra) Yet not as I will, but as You will.” (yester tov)----- You do not have in your theory that a cow can sin. It's a dumb creature and cannot think morally? CORRECT – I AGREERP" 12) So when people ask why does God allow bad things to happen to good people, you can reply because God controls the bad and allows the bad to test your free will to love Him more? Will that allow the human to love God more? Why is your only defense is to misrepresent others So when people ask why does God allow bad things to happen to good people, Dave would reply because God controls the bad and allows the bad to test your free will to –
D" Judaism 101 Deu 8:2 ... in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not.R" Yes, but 'Will that allow the human to love God more? Does testing a human make them love God more? Without GUILT how do you know you have SINNED Does more guilt make you love God more – or make you realize you need to repent---------------- No God never told the archon to rape or even kill – all they do is tug at your (yester ra) man does all the rest on his own R" I don't get this impression of a passive SHAD at all, SHAD possession of the human was a real concern in Jesus time. Do you agree with this? YES - OF COURSE – possession / exorcism is a very real thing - ABSOLUTELYR" OK if its a programmed to do RA, no sins involved, why are the SHAD judged than? RP" 16) And why judge them if they have no free will? "R" Its a serious question you do not answer. REPEAT - FIRST – you answer – why did your God of tov only - leave 99% of the globe to false ‘other gods’ There can only be one answer – this is God’s Plan – God’s Will on earth----------------- YES the BEAST of Revelation does not oppose God – “… The Beast … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world. …” in a double negative the YES means you agree with me, that "SHAD never oppose the Father, so not once are the SHAD an opposing elohiym power?" R" Good I am glad I understand your view on this, but totally disagree with your theory.We have been over ever 23 + 49 verses – not once did your satan god opposed the will of God We have been over ever 23 + 49 verses – each and every verse your satan was in service to the Lord All your "hoo har" over 49 verses verses 23, doesn't matter, I need only one verse, apart from Ezek, I have Rev 12. There was war in heaven? At least we have discovered the value of line by line – it doesn’t matter if it goes against Catholic doctrine [/quote] 19 RP continues" So explain to me how humans worship Baal, Zeus and RA, if these are elohiym powers that do not exist as "gods" elohiym powers, just inventions of humans? D" The ‘other-gods’ of the Levant are 100% real = The reality of the Archon The ‘other gods’ of the Levant are still very real and alive – they just have a different name today R" How is this possible if these are the "reality of the Archon" if they can never be an opposing elohiym power? So curious why you deny Eph 6:12 So curious why you try you best to deny the reality of the archon all around us So curious why you deny David Ike So curious how you pretend Islam does not exist So curious you refuse to take a stand on the identity of AllahD"The ‘other gods’ of the Levant are still very real and alive – they just have a different name today R" Again not possible, That’s right Robert – pretend they don’t exist – just focus on your Catholic satan godD"YES – all of these are created biological beings of this world Eph 6:12 – OUR REAL STRUGGLE R" How can it be a struggle That’s right Robert – pretend they don’t exist – just focus on your Catholic satan god
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Post by Dave on Jul 31, 2022 12:58:45 GMT -5
What Is Chabad?
THIS IS 100% GNSOTIC CHRISTIANITY He is a Jew – His praise is to God the Creator I am a Christian – Jesus Christ was God incarnate – Christ is the Image of God – Christ is the Creator My praise is to Christ – because I am NOT a Jew – I am a Gnostic Christian and accept the TRINITY
Knowing God – gnosis Always a personal communion Gnosis – requires action – Robert’s enumah
This Rabbi says – Basic Judaism 101 – a Cardinal Rule of Judaism = Mar 12:31 … ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” Mat 22:39 … ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
Support Chabad – it is the future
Act 2:1 When the day of Shavuot had come, they were all together in one place. Act 2:2 Suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Act 2:3 And tongues like fire spreading out appeared to them and settled on each one of them. Act 2:4 They were all filled with the Ruach ha-Kodesh and began to speak in other tongues as the Ruach enabled them to speak out. Act 2:5 Now Jewish people were staying in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. Act 2:6 And when this sound came, the crowd gathered. They were bewildered, because each was hearing them speaking in his own language. Act 2:7 And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “All these who are speaking—aren’t they Galileans? Act 2:8 How is it that we each hear our own birth language? Act 2:9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and those living in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Act 2:10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and parts of Libya toward Cyrene, and visitors from Rome Act 2:11 (both Jewish people and proselytes), Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring in our own tongues the mighty deeds of God!” Act 2:12 And they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to each other, “What does this mean?” Act 2:13 Others, poking fun, were saying, “They are full of sweet new wine!” Act 2:14 But Peter, standing with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed them: “Fellow Judeans and all who are staying in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and pay attention to my words. Act 2:15 These men are not drunk, as you suppose—for it’s only the third hour of the day! Act 2:16 But this is what was spoken about through the prophet Joel: Act 2:17 ‘And it shall be in the last days,’ says God, ‘that I will pour out My Ruach on all flesh. Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams Act 2:18 Even on My slaves, male and female, I will pour out My Ruach in those days, and they shall prophesy.
Rabbinic Judaism is 100% New Testament Christianity I absolutely support everything this Rabbi says
Asking Chassidic Jews what they do for a living!
Why we dress Jewish in hostile places?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2022 15:32:22 GMT -5
chabad, what is it? if you know God you can serve Him with your whole heart. chabad tells you how to know God, a study of Godliness not enough to be just follow the steps, building blocks... all of Jusaism is a relationship, more personal God wants you in a relationship. How do you get there? A passionate person helps you to become inspired to catch that fire and become inspired. In order inspire the heart you have to know the head Serve God with your whole heart, by getting to know HIM with your head. Heart feeling in serving God. Can we serve God when we have nothing to eat? Go to a city devote the lives to serve the city citizens...with no material or money. Ideals are more real than our needs. Love your fellow human, principle in torah. Dedicating oursleves to others, and our heart and feelings, are increased a thousand fold. I am here for others, not for myself. ------------------- Asking Chassidic Jews what they do for a living! I help others in community. Science teacher Work for Amason I am an uncle -------------------------------- I have a hat, and fringes, get alot of hate. Not pleasant to enter hostile places. We ar ein a real open relationship to God, how can I take off my things? hide the fact you are married because ot comments people say.
Rob Nice videos Dave. Thanks.
I was a science teacher, not easily social among others, did help my community as much as I could, but my time was a teacher for 27 years.
Spent 10 years a missionary, we ran medical needs for remote villages, and I was a teacher there too, also helped refugees during the volcano disrupting village homes, at one time we had 34 people living in our 3 bedroom home.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 1, 2022 7:31:03 GMT -5
Rob Nice videos Dave. Thanks. How can you say this – everything the Jews believe is error according to you They do not know their own theology – demonology – or language Because Rome redefined it all
According to you Judaism cannot look like Christianity You have been taught that Jews just follow 633 Laws
I have answered all your questions twice over why don’t you answer questions? You forget / ignore / overlook the 99% that were left in a vacuum without knowing YHWY Judaism / Gnostic teach – this is God’s Plan – God’s Will on earth FIRST – you answer – why did your God of tov only - leave 99% of the globe to false ‘other gods’ There can only be one answer – this is God’s Plan – God’s Will on earth
I have answered all your questions twice over why don’t you answer questions? God told the angel of death to kill all the first born of Egypt God told satan to go bother Job God used satan to force David to take a census God told Israel to KILL all the Amorite – man, woman, child, infant, pets, and livestock Why do you teach it is a sin to obey God
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2022 16:12:05 GMT -5
1) DP" FIRST – you answer – why did your God of tov only - leave 99% of the globe to false ‘other gods’ D" There can only be one answer – this is God’s Plan – God’s Will on earth R" Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
King Solomon was a good example of what Israel was to be, He went all over the world preaching his influence, including Africa and the USA.
D"I have answered all your questions twice over why don’t you answer questions? R" Write a few questions than Dave, I will do our best.
D"Why do you teach it is a sin to obey God R" It is not a sin to obey God, but you say God can override His own universal laws of LOVE.
The ten commandments define the true elohiym power and the opposing elohiym power.
One command says "no wounding". It does not say one can kill, though this may be implied.
Notice the judgements from this command.
Ex 21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
Here one is given provision to purchase and control the living of a human, but the owner is not to wound the slave, after 6 years, he is go free from your slavery.
Ex 21:12 ¶ He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
The command for wounding also includes the idea one cannot kill a person, the penalty for doing this is immediate death to yourself.
Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
Another kind of wounding, but her the unfortunate nature of the future baby dying, so the one who caused the death must also die.
Given these judgements, God cannot ask a human to kill another human. That would make GOD and the human doing the killing, both guilty of sin.
D" God told Israel to KILL all the Amorite – man, woman, child, infant, pets, and livestock R" You raise this issue with me, for the purposes to mock that GOD can over ride his own commandments? I would say NO God is always love and cannot sin Himself, the laws and commandments are eternal, like God is too.
Ex 33:2 And I will send an angel "messenger" before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite: 3 Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way.
Here God terms His people stiff necked? and that a messenger goes with them, not the Father.
Let's look into the problem Dave has and see How GOD handles the SIN problem among His people Israel.
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Ex 17:1 ¶ And all the congregation of the children of Israel journeyed from the wilderness of Sin, after their journeys, according to the commandment of the LORD, and pitched in Rephidim: and there was no water for the people to drink. 2 Wherefore the people did chide with Moses, and said, Give us water that we may drink. And Moses said unto them, Why chide ye with me? wherefore do ye tempt "nacah" the LORD?
R" translated correctly the negative context requires the negative use of the word 'test' to be 'tempt'. The People are tempting God to sin.
3 And the people thirsted there for water; and the people murmured against Moses, and said, Wherefore is this that thou hast brought us up out of Egypt, to kill us and our children and our cattle with thirst? 4 And Moses cried unto the LORD, saying, What shall I do unto this people? they be almost ready to stone me. 5 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go on before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go. 6 Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel. 7 And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD, saying, Is the LORD among us, or not?
R" As a result of Israel not having faith in God to supply their needs, an opposing tribe comes upon them, Amalekites. Why are they opposing? Because they sin,
But Israel also sins? Obviously while both people have sins, God tries to save Israel, and their sinning is NOT unto death, whereas the Amalekites is UNTO death. One needs to investigate why sinnings are judged like this, and how SIN comes to be like this?
8 ¶ Then came Amalek, and fought with Israel in Rephidim. 9 And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: to morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand. 10 So Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek: and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill. R" Notice Joshua fights the Amaleks, "a messenger of GOD goes ahead to fight for you" ( Ex 33:2 And I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:) and we see the figure here in this human Joshua, who never does a recorded sin in the Bible, a figure of the heavenly Joshua termed Jesus.
11 And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. Notice at times the people fight using human powers, and at times the flow of Godly powers, when Moses hands are held high. This is also another figure of power flow. 12 But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.
ROB" Here two humans assist Moses in maintaining the flow of amanuah until the setting of the sun. It is the first time the word "faith" is used in Scripture.
13 And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword. 14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven. 15 And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi: 16 For he said, Because the LORD hath sworn that the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.(KJV)
Why does God dislike the Amalek so much?
Some questions: 1) Can God kill humans who SIN, or demonstrate SINNING to a point there is no turning of repentance to HIM? There ten commandment law says no wounding, it also implies no mischief and no removal of salvation from that person, unless he does not wish to be saved, and thus has reached a point of not being able to be saved, because of his own stubborn pride. Since God's kindness upholds the living in all humans, they are on probation, God is allowed to remove his living, since you do not desire to remain alive any longer.
One has to fathom that to a wicked human living in heaven with God would be a terrible time of stress, that the wicked person would long to no longer exist.
In this passage we see Israel in SIN and the Amalek in SIN, but Israel longs to seek forgiveness, while the Amalek does not, though some individuals were saved, like the whore in Jericho.
I hope my two pennies helps satisfy you. ------------------------------------------------------------------ This email came in today regarding faith
Genuine faith provokes jealousy. Faith in Hebrew is the word emunah. It is not about reciting creeds; it is about trusting in God’s instructions and obeying them. Abraham displayed his faith when he left his family and home in Ur for the land of Canaan. He also displayed it when he bound his promised son Isaac to the altar. As a result of his hearing and obeying, Abraham has become known as the father of our faith (Romans 4:16). Joshua and the Israelites also displayed faith when they circled the walls of Jericho seven times, sounded their trumpets, shouted—and the walls came tumbling down (Joshua 6:15–20). Hearing God's instructions and obeying them are not two separate words in Hebrew. They both form the meaning of the word shema. So when Paul writes in Greek that “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Messiah,” what he is trying to tell us in the Hebrew mindset is that “emunah (faith) is shema (hearing / doing) the Word of Messiah.”
ROB "The messaniacs miss a few details on faith, the flow of power comes from God, not from human endeavour". The Hebraic way to provoke Jews to jealousy is by consistently doing what Messiah has asked us to do: Love our God. Love our neighbor. How do we do that? God gives us guidelines throughout the Bible, and they are all driven by emunah (faith) and shema (hearing / doing). The result is a living relationship, a pervasive peace, and a personal two-way communication with the God of Israel. After displaying our great faith through action, we can then point our Jewish friend to the Scriptures that prophesy and proclaim Messiah Yeshua as the way to that faith. Let's look at another Jewish man's experience with a Believer in Yeshua. Grant, a successful businessman was frustrated with his lack of connection to his God. “Here I was, the child of Abraham and the Jewish guy and I seem to have nothing,” he said. Then he met Maria, a Christian who displayed an intimacy and connection with Him that Grant longed for. “It caused me to begin to go after, once again, a relationship with my own God.” Only after being attracted to Maria’s personal connection with His God did Grant open up to hearing about Yeshua (Jesus). She presented the Jewish foundations of her faith to him in a way he could understand. And that intrigued Grant to read the Bible. “I was so surprised that I was actually reading a Jewish book,” he said. After six months of watching Maria’s personal connection with God, hearing her proclaim Yeshua as His Son, and reading the Scriptures for himself, Grant went back to his apartment and prayed: “God of Abraham, if Yeshua is Your son and the Jewish Messiah, I want to know the truth.” He remembered a Scripture Maria told him about—Revelation 3:20: “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with Me.” As Grant prayed for the truth to be revealed to him, he visualized knocking on his bedroom door. At that instant, a wind that he could see and feel indwelt him. “From that moment on,” he said, “I believed.” (I Met Messiah)
ROB" Wow, this man prayed a prayer promise and received a flow of GOD specific to his request, a knock on the door, and so the man supports GOD (faith) because the man demonstrated faith.
I am happy to see this example in the messianic email, but they failed to see how faith works, though they record the experience of the man showing faith. Thank you.
2) Did the Israelites show faith in God? 9 And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: to morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand.
ROB" The verse doesn't say, I suspect they went out killing in their own human power, because the hands of Moses went up and down, showing two powers were killing the enemy, human endeavour and Godly power through the human soldiers.
Here is a problem of the two masters over Israel.
Ex 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Ex 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.
These words "all the Lord has said we will do" is a plea for using human endeavour, and is NOT a response of faith.
So God was dealing with two masters with Israel's SINNING, and with the Amalekites, only one master with their SINNING. So there is a difference.
Re 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
The Amalekites were cold for GOD, and Israel was lukewarm for GOD. So there is a difference.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 1, 2022 22:33:10 GMT -5
1) DP" FIRST – you answer – why did your God of tov only - leave 99% of the globe to false ‘other gods’ D" There can only be one answer – this is God’s Plan – God’s Will on earth D"I have answered all your questions twice over why don’t you answer questions? R" Write a few questions than Dave, I will do our best. 1- why did your God of tov only - leave 99% of the globe to false ‘other gods’2- 3- D"Why do you teach it is a sin to obey God - and this question is 3 years old ------------------- The command for wounding also includes the idea one cannot kill a person, the penalty for doing this is immediate death to yourself. Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Another kind of wounding, but her the unfortunate nature of the future baby dying, so the one who caused the death must also die. Given these judgements, God cannot ask a human to kill another human. That would make GOD and the human doing the killing, both guilty of sin. GENOCYDE1. The Flood (Genesis 6-8) 2. The cities of the plain, including Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18-19) 3. The Egyptian firstborn sons during the Passover (Exodus 11-12) 4. The Canaanites under Moses and Joshua (Numbers 21:2-3; Deuteronomy 20:17; Joshua 6:17, 21) 5. The Amalekites annihilated by Saul (1 Samuel 15) GENOCYDEDeu 20:16 'Only, of the cities of these peoples which Jehovah thy God is giving to thee for an inheritance, thou dost not keep alive any breathing; Deu 20:17 for thou dost certainly devote the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite, as Jehovah thy God hath commanded thee, Deu 20:18 so that they teach you not to do according to all their abominations which they have done to their gods, and ye have sinned against Jehovah your God. GENOCYDEJos 6:20 And the people shout, and blow with the trumpets, and it cometh to pass when the people hear the voice of the trumpet, that the people shout—a great shout, and the wall falleth under it, and the people goeth up into the city, each over-against him, and they capture the city; Jos 6:21 and they devote all that is in the city, from man even unto woman, from young even unto aged, even unto ox, and sheep, and ass, by the mouth of the sword. GENOCYDE1Sa 15:2 'Thus said Jehovah of Hosts, I have looked after that which Amalek did to Israel, that which he laid for him in the way in his going up out of Egypt. 1Sa 15:3 Now, go, and thou hast smitten Amalek, and devoted all that it hath, and thou hast no pity on it, and hast put to death from man unto woman, from infant unto suckling, from ox unto sheep, from camel unto ass.' D" God told Israel to KILL all the Amorite – man, woman, child, infant, pets, and livestock R" You raise this issue with me, for the purposes to mock that GOD can over ride his own commandments? I would say NO D"Why do you teach it is a sin to obey God------------------------------ Why does God dislike the Amalek so much? Because they ae Rephiem – another teaching you reject------------------------------------------------------------------ This email came in today regarding faith Genuine faith provokes jealousy. Faith in Hebrew is the word emunah. It is not about reciting creeds; it is about trusting in God’s instructions and obeying them. TRUST? – you must have an issue with this email already D" She said nothing about the law – acting like a Christian - caring for others – being a blessing to others – being a witness (Jer 1:5)R" One is not to judge, but I would have to ask how she love others, to term how this is done, in her own strength as a woman or via faith in God. Joshua and the Israelites also displayed faith when they circled the walls of Jericho seven times, sounded their trumpets, shouted—and the walls came tumbling down (Joshua 6:15–20). Hearing God's instructions and obeying them - GENOCYDE is not possible in your religion Killing – murder – especially genocide is a sin according you D"Why do you teach it is a sin to obey GodROB "The messaniacs miss a few details on faith, the flow of power comes from God, not from human endeavour". You are selfish and self-centered – you want something from God Enumah = giving to God – serving God – giving of yourself – self-sacrificeHow do we do that? God gives us guidelines throughout the Bible, and they are all driven by emunah (faith) and shema (hearing / doing). You are selfish and self-centered – you want something from God Enumah = giving to God – serving God – giving of yourself – self-sacrificeYou teach - they are all driven by emunah (faith) and shema (hearing / and receiving). “From that moment on,” he said, “I believed.” (I Met Messiah) ROB" Wow, this man prayed a prayer promise and received a flow of GOD specific to his request, a knock on the door, and so the man supports GOD (faith) because the man demonstrated faith. I am happy to see this example in the messianic email, but they failed to see how faith works, though they record the experience of the man showing faith. You only say this so you can deny the end result – (I Met Messiah)2) Did the Israelites show faith in God? ROB" The verse doesn't say, I suspect they went out killing in their own human power, because the hands of Moses went up and down, showing two powers were killing the enemy, human endeavour and Godly power through the human soldiers. So Israel killed and Murdered through the power of the LordHearing God's instructions and obeying them - GENOCYDE is not possible in your religion Killing – murder – especially genocide is a sin according you D"Why do you teach it is a sin to obey GodNow you teach that the power of God kills and murders – so consistentWhat happened to your Feel Good God of TOV that can do no wounding?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2022 5:19:50 GMT -5
Greetings Dave, you must have had a bad day? You didn't reply to my discussions, you just make emotive remarks and making the same questions you normally make.
For example
D" GENOCYDE is not possible in your religion Killing – murder – especially genocide is a sin according you
R" What?
D"You only say this so you can deny the end result –
R" What?
D"Why do you teach it is a sin to obey God
R" What?
D"You are selfish and self-centered – you want something from God
R" What?
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D" 1Sa 15:3 Now, go, and thou hast smitten Amalek, and devoted all that it hath, and thou hast no pity on it, and hast put to death from man unto woman, from infant unto suckling, from ox unto sheep, from camel unto ass.'
R" I see.
RP: " Why does God dislike the Amalek so much? D" Because they are Rephiem – another teaching you reject
R" You think? How come one family in Jericho was saved than?
She and her family became Hebrew from than onwards.
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D" So Israel killed and Murdered through the power of the Lord
R" Maybe? Not fully convinced God approved...
The passage you quote is about Saul as king disobeying God's instructions, so how can you be sure the Lord gave the instructions as His purest will, BUT instead with a conditional will, giving instructions to a stiff neck king, knowing he would do RA? God is not mocked a man reapeth what he sows.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 2, 2022 7:53:10 GMT -5
D" I have answered all your questions twice over why don’t you answer questions?R" Write a few questions than Dave, I will do our best. 1- why did your God of tov only - leave 99% of the globe to false ‘other gods’2- 3- D"Why do you teach it is a sin to obey God - and this question is 3 years old God cannot ask a human to kill another human. That would make GOD and the human doing the killing, both guilty of sin. you just make … the same questions you normally make. Still waiting for the same old answers D" GENOCYDE is not possible in your religion Killing – murder – especially genocide is a sin according you Yet God commands Israel to perform genocide? R" What?D"You only say this so you can deny the end result – R" What?(I Met Messiah) – why do you deny the experience? D"Why do you teach it is a sin to obey God R" What?So Israel killed and Murdered through the power of the Lord Hearing God's instructions and obeying them - GENOCYDE is not possible in your religion Killing – murder – especially genocide is a sin according you D"Why do you teach it is a sin to obey God R" Write a few questions than Dave, I will do our best. When will you?
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Post by Dave on Aug 2, 2022 12:55:56 GMT -5
1- why did your God of tov only - leave 99% of the globe to false ‘other gods’ Easy answer – And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the world
Easy answer – God’s Plan – always God’s Plan – because it is God’s creation and its God’s Will – because the One True God is ABSOLUTE SOVERIEGN
2- REMEMBER THE QUESTION?Rom 5:12 because of one man’s SACRIFICE FOR SIN – sin and death entered the world Nonsense 5:12 because of one SIN (disobedience / transgression) – sin and death entered the world
Heb 2:17 The High Priest must make an atonement – for the peoples SACRIFICES FOR SIN Nonsense Heb 2:17 The High Priest must make an atonement – for the peoples SIN (disobedience / transgression)
Heb 4:15 Jesus Christ is (G5565 – χωρίς - at a space, that is, separately or apart from (often as preposition): - beside, by itself, without.) a Sin Offering Heb 4:15 Jesus Christ is … without SIN (disobedience / transgression) Why won’t you explain your own Robert Method translation? Answer – because it is NONSENSE It is a corruption of scripture and therefore the message
3- D"Why do you teach it is a sin to obey God - and this question is 3 years old 20 hours ago robertt said: God cannot ask a human to kill another human. That would make GOD and the human doing the killing, both guilty of sin. Why do you deny scripture – I thought you teach the Tanak is the truth
7 hours ago robertt said: you just make … the same questions you normally make. Still waiting for the same old answers Why do you deny scripture – I thought you teach the Tanak is the truth
D" GENOCYDE is not possible in your religion Killing – murder – especially genocide is a sin according you Yet God commands Israel to perform genocide? Why do you deny scripture – I thought you teach the Tanak is the truth
D"Why do you teach it is a sin to obey God R" What? So Israel killed and Murdered through the power of the Lord Hearing God's instructions and obeying them - GENOCYDE Killing – murder – especially genocide is a sin according you D"Why do you teach it is a sin to obey God Why do you deny scripture – I thought you teach the Tanak is the truth
20 hours ago robertt said: R" Write a few questions than Dave, I will do our best. When will you?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2022 17:41:33 GMT -5
D"He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear,
R" contestants, great contest, how is this not a Great Controversy and confirming my view?
So is Gnostic writings say the Father intentionally created false elohiym powers? to bring in a "great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear" seems so from this writing?
D"since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. R" Gnostics teach the Father created the false elohiym power on purpose, to to bring in a "great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear" seems so from this writing?
Do you agree with this idea? Or are you going to play word games and say no...
Generally the same basic idea as my view, 1) contest, Controversy 2) Inscrutable One, false elohiym power.
Word game on similar themes.
Do you agree with this idea?
D"Easy answer – God’s Plan – always God’s Plan R" you are confirming this idea above?
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2- REMEMBER THE QUESTION? Rom 5:12 because of one man’s SACRIFICE FOR SIN – sin and death entered the world Nonsense R" OH so a SIN-BEARER for sins is not a part of Scripture, and the offering for our confessed sins, termed "chataah" is not what this Hebrew word means?
Hmm? Maybe, Jeff makes chataah mean "error" and chata mean "err".
I prefer "chata" to mean "sin" or "missing" and "chataah" mean "sin-offering" something we do with our confessed sins, to atone for our sins. Jeff aludes to this idea.
D"Heb 2:17 The High Priest must make an atonement – for the peoples SACRIFICES FOR SIN Nonsense R" Hmm? I think we are making big deal over themes?
D"Answer – because it is NONSENSE It is a corruption of scripture and therefore the message R" Oh sorry.
Question" Was Jesus meant to be a SIN-BEARER? y/n?
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Let's notice the Hebrew behind this theme
an offering for sin "asham"
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
he bare the sin "chet" of many
Hmm? not what I was looking for? but interesting.
Try Day of Atonement
Le 16:6 And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house.
Hebrew word is "chatta'ah" used by High Priest for Himself
Le 16:9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
Here are two goats one is chosen as a Hebrew word is "chatta'ah" Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
SO the chataah Jesus used was his own blood.
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Sadly the Greek spoils the harmony for the Hebrew.
Hamartia, is what Hebrew word? It has to be chataah.
"in the likeness of chaatah flesh, and for chataah condemned chaataah in the flesh"
Here I try to write the Lev 16 into the Rom 8 account. Is this correct? Or am I as you are saying speaking falsely?
Is there a NT in Hebrew translation agreeing with this idea?
Jeff Benner has the Roman 8 in Hebrew, but I can't read the Hebrew with certainty - bother...
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3- D"Why do you teach it is a sin to obey God - and this question is 3 years old Why do you deny scripture – I thought you teach the Tanak is the truth Show me where explicitly GOD commands a human to make otheer humans no longer live? D"Yet God commands Israel to perform genocide?
R" Where is your Bible verse Dave for this idea?
D" 1Sa 15:3 Now, go, and thou hast smitten Amalek, and devoted all that it hath, and thou hast no pity on it, and hast put to death from man unto woman, from infant unto suckling, from ox unto sheep, from camel unto ass.'
This theme is a response to King Saul being in SIN....
Read the whole context... I commented on it already ?
Shalom
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