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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 5:13:54 GMT -5
Great, I shall purchase these and use, I anticipate using abut 30 of them?
Use 26 in my system, 4 for spares.
Eight are 40 amp All rest are 20 amp.
One question is you panels max current is in theory 20 amps, your controller max is 20 amps, why isn't the fuse rates for 20 amps? You had yours rated for more, if you had a fault your controller would burn out?
There are also 240 Volt circuit breakers rated at 5.0 amps, hopefully this trips rather than my Inverters during overload.
Having trouble finding a wall mounted (non DIN rail) Ground Interrupters', we call them RCD's, but notice RV or caravan is a popular use of small appliances so this is my best and cheapest method. I note you can purchase powerpoints with RCD built into them, great, except for price, 150 dollars each.
But this might be better, maybe even have the circuit breaker near the powerpoint rather than in power room, so when it trips, it's easier to reset?
What do you think?
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Nov 24, 2020 12:17:33 GMT -5
Great, I shall purchase these and use, I anticipate using abut 30 of them? Use 26 in my system, 4 for spares. One question is you panels max current is in theory 20 amps, your controller max is 20 amps, why isn't the fuse rates for 20 amps? You had yours rated for more, if you had a fault your controller would burn out? 30 fuses – are you operating a factory with large industrial machines?How-to Size Fuses in a DIY Camper Van Electrical System ...www.explorist.life › what-size-fuses-to-use-for-a-diy-ca... Find the continuous amperage of the device you are trying to power and multiply that number by 1.5, then round up to the nearest fuse size you can find. Fuse Sizing Guide - Omega Engineeringes.omega.com › auto › pdf › REF_FuseSizingGuide PDF * b) SECONDARY FUSES (Sum of following): 125% of the continuous load I have 2 100wat 12v panels ties together for 24vI have 2 of these of these in parallel coming to one charge controller That is 400 wat at 24v = 16.6 amps – right NO – I measure an average of about 600wat at 38v = 15.7amps I carry this in a #4 Thnn wire about 40 feet to the charge controller Some guys around here – have a 300amp breaker on this circuit These guys also live in the rocks of the mountain that contain iron and such They worry of lightning strikes to their panels I live in the clay – not as concerned My panels are on the ground – not standing high on the roof I have a Eppert 40amp charge controller mppt Its rated output is 40amp 12v – so I have a 50amp breaker on its output On the input side – because it is mppt – it will accept up to 150v from the panel array And I have two of these charge controllers (both 4 panels at 24v) Both with a 50amp breaker Therefore I charge at 80amps 12v for 5hrs -10hrs a day I have two cheap inverters Each is plugged into a 10/3 underground wire 75 feet into the house Each 10/3 wire terminates into a 20amp 110v house breaker Each inverter is 2000wat (4000wat peak @ 90sec) 2000wat at 110v = 20amp breaker = 2200wat We do not have a fridge We have 6 ceiling lights – all independent We have three outdoor lights on one switch We have 3 head board lights We employ 3 power strips with off/on switches One sort-of-hides itself under the couch and we use it as a charging station We have various chargers plugged in most of the time Phones – porta-vac – mp3 players – and three (sometimes 4) laptop computers One power strip is dedicated to entertainment center 200wat stereo, 4 Bose speakers, CD player, DVD Player And my old laptop hooked up to the TV by DMI Cable The third power strip is behind the kitchen counter 1000wat microwave, 12 cup coffee maker, toaster, toaster over, even a crock pot at times Each power strip is off except when needed My wife and I have T-Mobile unlimited plan for seniors (I am 65 soon) Unlimited talk, message, and data = $70/month My phone is always in the window with its hot spot on – it is our internet provider All three computers can’t watch YouTube at the same time But that’s OK – we have move night – at the TV stream linking something I do subscribe to Hulu (5.99/m) and Amazon Prime (12.99/m) My girls have access to their computer from 8am to 4pm (school time) But after 4pm – they move into the living room and watch the TV (parental guidance) We have zero restrictions about using the toaster or microwave The solar monitor is on the kitchen wall in full view – full batt = OK We make muffins in our electric toaster over Because we do not have a gas oven – only a counter top stove 15minutes is Dad’s limit – most things we do are 10-12min (cookies and such) I always have 3600wat generator on stand by Power Tools – let’s talk surge demandMyth – turning lights off and on saved energy = FALSE Incandescent bulbs are the easiest to describe Once one – it takes as much energy to heat the wire into its glow Than it uses in 1 hr of continuous use To turn that light on and off multiple times an hour = more energy This is not so much true anymore – but extremely valid Example 110v to USB chargers – some remain warm if you leave then plugged in the wall Some do not – the difference is obvious Pulling the trigger on my skill saw is an instantaneous 14amp draw to the system Pulling that trigger 10-15 times in a short time – is just too much shock and all for (CHEAP) solar components
I just use the generator – it is at the heart of my work area anyway
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 13:37:41 GMT -5
30 fuses – are you operating a factory with large industrial machines? Yeah it's a lot, see my updated wiring diagram.
The 40amp ones protect inverters, which in theory could require 41.6 amps. But 960W/24V is 40Amp. This theory is silly because the battery voltage should float at 27 volts, not 24 volts, so current draw is 37 amps for 1000 W or 35 Amps for 960 W, so really in practice does anybody have any ideas about the size of fuses required? In other words my battery bank should never show 24 V, but always 27 V, maybe 24 V at night?
I should hold off purchasing fuses until I get my Inverters and find out what current it takes to burn them out, and go from there?
I thought fuses limit current and protect devices, so not sure why you have 125% more than you need? I have never received more than 15 amp of my solar panels, evn though they can go to 20 amps or more in theory. The sola controllers are max at 20 amps, anything more than this for seconds, burns out the controllers. That's the point of a fuse. At what point is your electronics going to burn out? For my 240 inverters this is a load over 1500 Watt peak or 1000 watt continuous. So that's 6.25 Amp, if I limit the circuit to 5.0Amp with a circuit breaker, than the inverter never runs more than 1200 w peak , but I am not sure how to protect the inverter for continous loads over 1000 watt? Or can circuit breakers tolerate higher loads for few seconds, so the breaker should be rated for 4.1 amps, the closest I can find is 4.0 amps? that is 960 watts continous?
How-to Size Fuses in a DIY Camper Van Electrical System ...www.explorist.life › what-size-fuses-to- Fuse Sizing Guide - Omega Engineeringes.omega.com › auto › pdf › REF_FuseSizingGuide PDF
Thanks for the links.
I have 2 100wat 12v panels ties together for 24v I have 2 of these of these in parallel coming to one charge controller
That is 400 wat at 24v = 16.6 amps – right In theory yes, but amps increase if cooler than 25 degrees, whereas for me, amps decrease in a subtropical place where temperatures are around 35 degress C.
NO – I measure an average of about 600wat at 38v = 15.7amps I carry this in a #4 Thnn wire about 40 feet to the charge controller
A wire carrying 50 amps would have been better?
I have a Eppert 40amp charge controller mppt Its rated output is 40amp 12v – so I have a 50amp breaker on its output On the input side – because it is mppt – it will accept up to 150v from the panel array
I see. Nice info. Thanks Dave.
And I have two of these charge controllers (both 4 panels at 24v) Both with a 50amp breaker
Therefore I charge at 80amps 12v for 5hrs -10hrs a day
So you can push 80 amps into your bank daily, and this is OK?
I am planing to push no more than 50 amps daily into my system into 20 cells each in series with 500Amp hour capacity, so the 50 Amps moves along and spreads into 2.2 amps per cell at charging voltage of 33.5 V.
I have two cheap inverters I plan to have four inverters
Each is plugged into a 10/3 underground wire 75 feet into the house Each 10/3 wire terminates into a 20amp 110v house breaker Each inverter is 2000wat (4000wat peak @ 90sec) 2000wat at 110v = 20amp breaker = 2200wat
Your inverters are bigger than mine. Mine are rated for 4.1 amps continuous, 24/1200VA, or 1000W continous. Your voltage is different, mine is 240VAC.
We do not have a fridge I plan for a 24VDC fridge and a 240VAC fridge. but no indepedent freezer
We have 6 ceiling lights – all independent Not sure of our lights, they are 24V LED, each uses 0.2 amps, and one for each room, so around 6 of these, and maybe 4 LED bulbs, 0.1 amps.
We employ 3 power strips with off/on switches One sort-of-hides itself under the couch and we use it as a charging station We have various chargers plugged in most of the time Phones – porta-vac – mp3 players – and three (sometimes 4) laptop computers
One power strip is dedicated to entertainment center 200wat stereo, 4 Bose speakers, CD player, DVD Player And my old laptop hooked up to the TV by DMI Cable
The third power strip is behind the kitchen counter 1000wat microwave, 12 cup coffee maker, toaster, toaster over, even a crock pot at times
Each power strip is off except when needed
From our wiring diagram, the powerpoints are limited to one line per inverter.
I always have 3600wat generator on stand by I may purchase a 2400w generator for big loads, welding, drills, toasters, etc.
Shalom my friend
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Post by Dave on Nov 24, 2020 18:34:11 GMT -5
Therefore I charge at 80amps 12v for 5hrs -10hrs a day So you can push 80 amps into your bank daily, and this is OK?I have 6 Duracell Golf Car Battery - Group Size GC2 CURRENT PRICE: $89.88 Can only be purchased in a club I got mine at $70 each at a 4th of July sale I have a good friend that is a Sam’s Club member She actually bought them – she just used my card Specifications 20 amp hour rate:215 5 amp hour rate:157 6 amp hour rate:156 Battery Electrolyte Composition:Acid Battery End Type:Top Post Battery Purpose:Deep Cycle BCI Group Size:GC2 Contents:ONE EACH Freight Class:65 Minutes at 25 amps:395 Minutes at 75 amps:105 Terminal Type:DIN Volts:6 Even tho they are rated at 20 amp hour rate They will do 25 amps for 395 minutes = 300 amps Or do 75 amps for 105 minutes = 450 amps If they will give up 20 amps at 6v x six batteries = 120 amp charge Therefore I charge at 80amps 12v for 5hrs -10hrs a day So you can push 80 amps into your bank daily, and this is OK?www.backwoodssolar.com/products/charge-controllers/mpptWhen choosing an MPPT charge controller, the amp rating of the controller is the maximum amperage that it can supply to the battery being charged. To find this amperage, add the wattage of all modules in the array and divide by the battery voltage. For example, six 240 watt modules have a total wattage of 1440 watts. If you are charging a 12 volt battery, the charge controller amps required is 120 amps (1440 / 12 = 120). Neighbor has 24 Trojan T105TROJAN T105 BATTERY $179.00 Each battery is 6 volts, made of three 2-volt cells in one case. Six-volt batteries are series connected in pairs for 12 volts, or in strings of four batteries for 24 volts, or 8 to make 48 volts. Then several of these series strings (No more than 3 parallel is ideal) may be connected in parallel to add more ampere-hour capacity. Each series string is rated 225 ampere hours, so two strings are 450 Ampere-Hours, 3 are 675 A.H. If more than three strings are needed consider a larger battery like the L-16RE-B Interconnect diagrams are supplied. Life expectancy is 4 to 6 years. (eight years later I am using four of his throw aways – work fine for me)Neighbor also has a Trane 80amp charger controller for solar + three windmills flapping away on tall poles + He is grid tied – and sells back Wiring – look at what the manufacture says about banks in series and parallel Then several of these series strings (No more than 3 parallel is ideal) may be connected in parallel to add more ampere-hour capacity.No more that series strings (two 6v to make one 12v) (No more than 3 parallel is ideal)Why? Look at the batteries you have drawn – 20 batteries all hooked up in parallel And you have pos at one and neg at the otherAs you use that system - this is what will happen The first and last batteries will boil – be extremely taxed all the time While the batteries at the center of your bank are protected from the surge demand What all the solar guys do here today (No more than 3 parallel is ideal) = six 6v batteries in a 12v bank Then each 12v bank is tied to a central buss bar in parallel Between batteries and bus bar my neighbor included an Isolator ($53 Amazon) End result – all the batteries are treaded more evenly with charge and demand And each group of 6 is isolatable - for inspection or maintenance Charge rate – I say I charge at 80amps – to the bus bar – during the daylight hours If 10 amps of that is going to the house – only 70 amps remain for the batteries ALSO – I have a dump controller – adjustable from 14.8v to 18.0v I think I set mine at 15.6 or 16.4 don’t remember Any voltage spikes over that dump into a heat sink
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 13:10:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Dave. A really good read. I am lacking experience at that level to reply. If I was to see your system daily, I would set mine up similar to yours. I will keep you informed of my progress as I go, Just received info from DE that Steca 24/20 might be manually voltage adjustable? We will see. Enjoy your day Shalom
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Post by Dave on Nov 25, 2020 23:47:59 GMT -5
Battery bank #1 Over time you will notice that battery pair 1 needs water (250ml), then 2 a little less (200ml), then 3 (150ml), or 4, (75ml) and 5 (50ml) Why – the surge demand zap and charge zolt is felt by these (pairs) more Problems usually happen to the front end of the bank Battery bank #2Everything about example one is also true of battery (pair) 24, 23, 22, 21 etc Either bank – battery pair 10 – a weak or loose connection (however small) will be warmer than the rest – warmer from increased resistance = hard on this battery How do you know if you have a problem battery?1- a dead short and you are out of electricity – usually long after that battery should have been removed 2- Most commonly – you know because to suffer performance enough that you feel the need to investigate BOTH - TOO LATE! – more than one battery now harmed by the weakest link Solution – replace the bankBattery bank #3Four separated / Isolated - Six 6v batteries in a 12v bank Each pos cable connected to an Isolator All four banks in parallel (you would series two banks to make 24v then parallel) BUT – the demand zaps and charge zolts are spread more evenly over the total All batteries are treated more evenlyAny group of 6 can be isolated for maintenanceAny group of 6 that fails to perform is automatically isolated – (undervolt) - that requires intervention by you – IMMEDIATELY Fixing that bad connection – or replacing one battery before the other 23 are affected Charge rateThey say I need 5,000 watts of solar panels and a charging up to 50amps is OK. Wow, I only have 1600 watts so far. Need to buy more. I don’t think you understand the math5000wats at 24v = 208 amps incoming to the charge controller 5000watt at 48v = 104 amps incoming to the charge controller Charging at 50 amps at 24v = 1200 watts outgoing to the batteries Wow – your 1600 watts is more than enough to charge at 50amps I measure an average of about 600wat at 38v = 15.7amps I carry this in a #4 Thnn wire about 40 feet to the charge controller I am at elevation 8278 feet above sea level Solar panels here work at about 125% better than their sea level rating Here UV is an issue Solar is only FUNCTIONAL 5hrs a day – between 10am and 4pm Unless you have a tracker – no one here uses then anymore Yes I get charge in the early am or late pm – but it is not comparable 5hrs x 600watts = 3000wat charge available (I have x 2 = 6000watts + am + pm - 7-10,000 watts a day) But at the same time – I am using wattage With 3000wat charge available If I am using 1000watts – there is only 2000watts available for charge If I am jamming on my stereo – louder than my family likes for hours and we are using the toaster oven for muffins – and our day doesn’t end until 10pm – it is if we got no charge at all I measure an average of about 600wat at 38v = 15.7amps I carry this in a #4 Thnn wire about 40 feet to the charge controller A wire carrying 50 amps would have been better? wiresizecalculator.net/24v at 3% voltage drop at 55 feet = 4AWG I don’t think you understand the math
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Post by Dave on Nov 26, 2020 11:45:00 GMT -5
How do you know if you have a problem battery?1- a dead short and you are out of electricity – usually long after that battery should have been removed 2- Most commonly – you know because to suffer performance enough that you feel the need to investigate BOTH - TOO LATE! – more than one battery now harmed by the weakest link Solution – replace the bank My neighbor just replaced 24 Trojan T105s - after 8 years He kept the best 8 - and gave me 4 and the ones I have perform GreatTherefore 12 of the 24 really did not need to be replaced
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 14:04:31 GMT -5
Nice thought Dave
But purchasing Nickel Iron, I do not anticipate any problems for over 100 years, if I live that long, the next person takes over.
If there is a short in the 20 cells, the voltage drop will be significant, so a series connection allows spotting problems dead easy? I had one in my 12 v car battery, a dead cell causes 10 v not 12 v.
As you say parallel connections causes the weak cells to drain out the healthy cells.
D: "and the ones I have perform Great
Yes after 8 years, these cells would not have been drained fully, since the weaker cells go drained first. SO the weaker cells protected the better cells.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Nov 28, 2020 0:40:20 GMT -5
But purchasing Nickel Iron, I do not anticipate any problems for over 100 years, if I live that long, the next person takes over. I downloaded the users manual from ironedison.com/nickel-iron-ni-fe-battery1- Even though Nickel Iron batteries may not be well known, they are by far the most rugged and longest lasting battery option available today, and a great option for off grid solar & renewable energy applications! History: Nickel Iron Batteries Have a 100+ Year Track Record This seems to support your views2- 10 Year Warranty is standard on all Iron Edison Nickel Iron Batteries. within the pro-rated period The warrantee here says – 10 yrs – prorated due to workmanship or defect Exclusions are improper maintenance or abuse3- Maintenance: Nickel Iron batteries are a flooded battery, which means there’s minimal maintenance they will need throughout their life. OH – nice sale pitchTruthWatering your batteries every 1-3 months is the biggest maintenance requirement. Electrolysis takes place inside the battery during charging, resulting in the loss of pure water in the form of hydrogen and oxygen off gassing. This water must be replaced periodically by adding distilled water to the batteries. It is normal to see and hear bubbling while charging Iron Edison Nickel Iron batteries. Watering Due to the electrolysis that occurs during charging, the electrolyte level in Iron Edison Nickel Iron batteries will decrease over time and will need to be replenished. The electrolyte levels of each battery should be monitored at least monthly to ensure the fluid does not drop below the MIN fill line. Cleaning The batteries, trays, and battery compartment must be kept dry and care must be taken that dirt and other foreign substances do not collect at the bottom or between the batteries. Periodically remove any electrolyte encrustation from the top of batteries, taking care not to let the material fall between or into the batteries. Soak battery vent caps in distilled water, inspect and remove any electrolyte encrustation while performing routine battery watering. Truth – these require monthly maintainceThey boil – therefore they gas – EXPLOSIVE and CORROSIVE – requires venting These battery tops – get wet – the gas condenses on the top making them wet The wet attract dirt like glue – these battery terminals will get crusty white These batteries are very hands on I checked my water level at one year – added nothing No mess – no box – no ventMy Trojan L16s were Iron Nickel – lots of maintenance – because they boil Life Span – totally dependent on MaintananceIf there is a short in the 20 cells, the voltage drop will be significant, so a series connection allows spotting problems dead easy? I had one in my 12 v car battery, a dead cell causes 10 v not 12 v. You don’t get me If you have a bunch of batteries all in parallel – sooner or later you will experience One cell out in the middle of the bank dryer than the rest – why – bad battery connection Not loose – maybe even tight – but there is a leak – maybe in the crimp Dumb example While all the other batteries are giving up 10 amps – this one batter has to give up 11 amps Or it can only give up 9 amps because the rest is wasted in the heat of the connection leak As one solar guy to another – as a brother in Christ – I want to say No one here thinks this to be COST EFFECTIVE Why would I pay $1000 for messy maintainance demanding battery – if I can only get $500 back at five years at best CENTENNIAL CB6-250 6V 250AH GC2 SEALED LEAD ACID AGM BATTERY - $384.00Sealed = maintenance free – no gassing Very popular here right now I salivated over theseunboundsolar.com/1898592/fullriver/battery-banks/fullriver-agm-250-ah-12vdc-3000-wh-2-battery-bankFullriver AGM 250 Ah 12VDC 3000 Wh - $733 for 2But a bank of 6 >$2199 I bought my GL2s for $70 each = $420 Last word about charge rate - this is from their manual
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 1:50:45 GMT -5
Your a good guy, Dave, helping me out with info
I appreciate the charging rate,
so 50Amps is just the minimum, I need around 50 to 100 Amps charging.
wow, more solar panels. OK
Yes your right about maintenance, it's constant and somewhat messy.
As for cost, I will let you know over time.
Last system I had were cheap Chinese AGM zero maintenance batteries, costing me all up AUD 1,400. These would give me 220 amp hr at 24 volts. But I had two systems of them, so adding them in parallel would give me 440 Amp hr at 24 volts, no difference to what I am purchasing now. All up these 4 batteries weighed 120Kg. They lasted only 2 years of gentle use, always 80% charged every day.
Now I have purchased 500 amp hr costing me AUD 9,000. They weigh in total 1,200 Kg, and I expect them to last 20 years or more.
The AGM option is to purchase them every 2 years, a cost over 20 yrs is AUD 14,000. So over 20 years I am 4000 in front, less 1,000 to replace electrolyte and top ups using distilled water.
The peace of mind comes into play with their day to day bashing.... the AGM have to be looked after, not less than 80% fully charged. I did this faithfully for 2 years, its a maintenance thing too. I had problems with dry solder connections. The new option has no such kindness required, in fact I must abuse them, take them down to 30% every day and recharge them hard with 50 Amps minimum every day. They will keep on allowing this treatment for 20 years without failing. I have yet to experience this, so need to experience this kind of system performance.
The thing about costs, I have the money now, but find it harder in the future when I am retired, Better to have things worked out now, no one has money when retired.
As for topping up distilled water every week, I check on them, like I check on my water system, taking off each screw on cap, cleaning out salt and replacing the cap, checking each filter for debris too, replacing batteries in my water controllers, checking the bore pump daily, and so on. Maintenance is a part of living.
D: "Fullriver AGM 250 Ah 12VDC 3000 Wh - $733 for 2
SO I need four to get 500 Amp hr , the cost is about AUD 3,500. They last 2 yrs looking after them, 80% always fully charged, so over 20 years the cost is AUD 35,000. About 26,000 more than the Ni-Fe.
My neighbour spent AUD 8,000 on big AGM system 24 volt system, rated 1200 Amp hr, He reckons they last 8 years, So after 20 years, I will still be 8,000 in front. So we will see which system is best.
I plan to frame mine all at a height of 600 off floor so the water level is about eye level and easy to view, will use 24 volt computer fans to remove H gas from cells.
But from what you have told me already, I need more solar panels.
Will love to build a wind generator, like yours, vertical off course, maybe on a washing machine magnets, one I have already for that purpose. Have to rewire the thing though.
But have to build a head tank tower first. My 240 bore pump can do up to 50m head, currently doing 30m head, so the tower will eliminate the need for pressure pump, saving me 600 watts of power, I can use that power elsewhere.
--------------------------
Re reading your discussion on my 1600 watts of solar panels so far. You reckon they are OK already?
1600 watt/ 24 volt = theoretical 66 Amps, more than enough? Maybe?
The output of them is 5 amps in theory, so with two systems running I got about 15 amps of each, so in total about 30 amps, not the expected 66 amps.
So the practice never matches the theoretical.
It's really a do and test, rather than inn theory plan. For some reason you never get the theory amounts you expect.
I am planning a 20 amp of 4 by 200w panels (5 amps in parallel each) AND I am planning a 20 amp of 4 by 200w panels (5 amps in parallel each) AND I am planning a 20 amp of 4 by 200w panels (5 amps in parallel each)
So this should give me enough.
In theory 2,400 w at 24 v = 100 amps, I expect in practice 45 amps to 50 amps.
Exciting things playing around with DC / AC power. A simile of God's goodness.
Shalom my friend.
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Post by Dave on Nov 28, 2020 2:21:05 GMT -5
They lasted only 2 years of gentle use, always 80% charged every day. I just do not understand your statement All deep cycle batteries are designed to deep cycle
From the uses manual it says - . “If you are living off-grid and cycling the battery every day, “
Cycling does not mean keeping them full What happens is you train your batteries to only give up 20%
Deep cycle batteries can be discharged up to 80 percent DOD without damage depending on the model. But in order to increase battery life, manufacturers recommend discharging deep-cycle batteries only down to 50 percent DOD.
The thing about costs, I have the money now, but find it harder in the future when I am retired, Better to have things worked out now, no one has money when retired.
I get ya – I am a realist – thinking of that replacement cost later
Then you should give a Tesla Power Wall another look
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 6:22:18 GMT -5
I had three different systems with AGM installed for experience.
One was WC, using 100W panel, an 220amp Hr AGM lead acid, running24 hrs/7 days a week computer fan for toilet fumes, uses about 5Watt, and runs day and night, the 12 volt system battery is still OK, now 4.5 yrs old, going strong.
I imagine the system is not pulling much of the deep cycle battery.
Another system was 24 volt system with two 220amp hr AGM running only one thing every day, a 24 v fridge, using only 300 watts when running. The system pulled out only 25% pwer every day, and recharged within 2 hours everyday. Ran OK for 2 years before batteries were found to be dead.
Another system was 24volt system with two 220amp hr AGM running, to run lights, pumps, powerpoints, all only 24 volts.
Again the bank failed after 3 yrs of use. Every day the bank remain 80 %fully charged. I would imagine if I took these down to 50% every day, they would have not lasted 3 yrs, but 2 yrs.
I know deep cycle means you can pull small currents off them all day, but only to certain limits. Most say to 50%, I found 80% charged is best.
I found one day lots of cloud cover, our fridge system fell to 60%, and never recovered after that, so we have to swap the bank to the light/pump, that wasn't damaged.
So I doubt if you can drop batteries to 50% and expect them to last.
The Ni-Fe may be different. Will let you know.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Nov 28, 2020 11:55:48 GMT -5
Why do your batteries fail so quickly?I had Trojan L16s before and I was under-volt a lot (should have had more) I worked night and lived nights – and dated a Filipino after she got off work at 5pm (2am my time) I sold the house after 10 years – and the batteries were still working fine My simple inhouse meter has a smily face when full charged - My current system – in the morning I wake up to 12.1v (25-30%) - my meter says When I turn on the inverter - it dips to 11.8v for 20min (2 other 12v chargers fire up inside the house) - and my meter says By 11am I hover around 14.6v I have cheap batteries – the cheapest I could find and I am 4 years into them In four years I have added less than ½ gal of water - I am sure because the gallon jug is still sitting there My neighbor – replaces his batteries every 10 years he says – if they need it or not He replaced them at 8 years this time (because we all got stimulus checks) He kept at least 12 of the 24 that I know of northeastbattery.com/top-5-reasons-batteries-fail-prematurely/ 1-TemperatureBatteries are very susceptible to extreme temperatures. In hot temperatures, batteries will expel more energy than in a normal range of temperature. The heat causes a loss of electrolyte in the battery leading to an increase in discharge and eventual failure. Is this you?The cold can be just a troublesome. In the extreme cold, it can take more energy from the battery to power up the equipment attached to the battery. This strain on the battery can also lead to early failure. This is me – my batteries are insulated for warmthPrevention: Store batteries in a temperature controlled environment. Leaving them in the extreme temperatures outside will only shorten their life cycle. Battery boxes can become very hot if too small or not vented enough 2-Incorrect Charging - Throwing your battery on a charger and cranking the voltage to speed up the charging process is a great way to cause your battery to fail early. Battery manufacturers will specify the charging voltage range for the battery and that range should be adhered to. Charging at a voltage too low will cause sulfation as well as cause the battery plates to lose the active material that makes it work. We call this training your batteries A perfect example is a lap top battery - if it is plugged in all the time in the house - once you take is away the battery does not last long at all Cell phones batteries are exactly the sameting.com/blog/cell-phone-batteries/Cell phone batteries: the truth about extending their lifeIn an ideal world, to prolong your battery life, you want to keep your battery somewhere around the 25% to 80% region using partial charges.Charging at too high a voltage accelerates corrosion and increase the rate of self-discharge. A high voltage creates heat which in turn causes the battery to discharge. Prevention: Follow the manufacturer’s guidelines for charging. Ensure that your battery charger is set to the recommended voltage. If you can, it’s also a good idea to monitor the battery during the charging process to prevent overcharging. From our conversation – we differ on charge rates – this is important 3- Incorrect Storing Practices When storing a battery, it’s important to know how. While the days of not being able to store batteries on the garage floor are long gone, a number of things still need to be considered when putting batteries away for a period of time. Consider the ambient temperature. Extreme high and low temperatures will dramatically decrease the life cycle of a battery in storage. Temperature again 4- Using Batteries Interchangeably Blah blah bl;ah not relevantPrevention: When changing a battery, only exchange like batteries for like. 5- Incorrect Installation Incorrectly installing a battery can lead to early failure and even can cause extreme damage such as fire or even an explosion. Connecting the positive cable to the negative post, damaged post seals, or loose connections are all examples of incorrect battery installation that can lead to battery damage and failure. Prevention: Follow all manufacturer’s installation instructions and make sure that all battery connections are clean and in proper working order.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 14:32:54 GMT -5
Wow you got 10 years out of your batteries?
Mine lasted only up to the warranty date, 2 years.
My 24 volt pumps also last only to their warranty date of 12 months.
It seems to me, nothing last past what it's warranty is.
They are kept under the water tank in a space 1.5m by 1.5m by 1.5 m. Its cool all year round, from 25 degrees C to 30 degrees C.
As for training batteries, yeah, I hear you. But solar chargers rest over night and charge early morning. Over night they dropped to 85% and by 10am they were 100%, and current folded back for the rest of the day.
This 6 hours every day may be training? bad for batteries? but the incoming current was only 0.4 amps usually.
I suspect the chemistry life was poor, Chinese quality?
You're lucky, yours were made in the USA?
Shalom
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Post by Dillon on Nov 28, 2020 15:57:05 GMT -5
I have Trojan L16 batteries and they are over 12 years old. I am alone here now and maybe I don’t notice they are old. When I have to I will get a Tesla Power Wall. I listen to you guys discuss liquid batteries and become more convinced.The only batteries I know of that went bad were Jill’s. She didn’t get her money back, but she did get some warrantee. So there must have been an issue with Decker. The future is dry lithium batteries. No maintenance. No fuss. Comes with the charging and inverter system built in. Just plug it in and enjoy. news.energysage.com/tesla-powerwall-battery-complete-review/#:~:text=Tesla%20lists%20the%20Powerwall%20at,components%20to%20%247%2C600%20before%20installation. Tesla Powerwall Home Battery Complete Review Tesla lists the Powerwall at a cost of $6,500 alone, and puts supporting hardware costs at $1,100, bringing the price of just the Powerwall and its associated components to $7,600 before installation.Jan 30, 2020 When Eric and Jill built their house, the installer used Decka Solar Batteries. All of them were replaced only four years in. Not sure why. We both have Trojan L16 now Jill has a Model S and she charges her house with it now. She always comes home with a full charge and dumps 50% of it into her house. www.solarreviews.com/blog/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-a-tesla-is-it-the-same-as-the-cost-to-charge-other-electric-vehicles#:~:text=The%20long%2Drange%20version%20of,or%203.6%20cents%20per%20mile. The Cost of Charging a Tesla And How it Compares to Gas ... The long-range version of the Model 3 has a 75 kWh battery pack with a 322 mile range. If we still assume the average national electric pricing of 13 cents per kWh and a charging efficiency of 85%, then a full charge will cost $11.47. This is $3.60 per 100 miles of mixed city and freeway driving, or 3.6 cents per mile.Nov 7, 2020 youtu.be/KTOLE0pAsG0TESLA Solar and Powerwall: 1 Year Later! – 6.30 min youtu.be/96IEjOqdyDEThe GENIUS of the Tesla Powerwall Explained - 15.0 min Why invest in the past?
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