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Post by Dave on Oct 19, 2019 17:35:27 GMT -5
Richard quote:"The process is accepting Jesus Christ as savior. End of story. Arrh yes. But how do we do this process of accepting Jesus? How is our betrothal to Jesus maintained? The man on the cross next to Jesus = believed and confessed - that is all If there is a process of accepting Jesus implies hesitation - maintaining fact requires no help Maintaining a belief probably does require addition input to support your belief Beliefs can change - facts cannot! Who was your physical birth father? You knew him by name - you loved him - you grew up with him - he spanked you - and you ate many meals with him - and you argued with him - for you he is not a belief, he is a fact of your existence. Do you need to be continually reminded that he was your father - that he was real? - I hope not. Once the Holy Spirit touches you - you KNOW - (gnosis) - FAITH is not a belief Once you know - The Holy Spirits guides us from within Outside mandates and rules are just religion!
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Post by Dave on Oct 20, 2019 10:07:06 GMT -5
What is the only process - the only thing that requires a procedure - the only step by step growth Is how we choose to walk in the Spirit or how closely we listen to the Spirit
Here is the point that Roman Christianity misses - or dismisses - different localities within heaven
Christianity has one heaven - Paul = Christians only have the 3rd heaven and hell This leaves the traditional Christian with a black and white option - heaven or hell You are either in - or out
The Christian in or out attitude is contradictory to the Christian concept of rewards in heaven
What is required?
Psa 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: (gnosis)
What if we remain ignorant?
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, (gnosis not)
Fact based knowledge of the truth is required NOT hopeful belief in what the church says or teaches
Can you lose your salvation? Jesus says - NO
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Can you fall from Grace? - Yes
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge (gnosis) of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again (chose) entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:20 - IMO - if you know fact (not believe it) you will not change (with rare exceptions)
For the most part - if you are hot for Jesus when your 20 - and then fall away by the time you are 40 (you were a hope filled believer - and beliefs can change) - not a fact filled individual indwelt by the Holy Spirit. These people are pretenders - they are Sun day christians - who stopped showing up on Sun day
The Rare exceptions - and they may have actually been just charismatic pretenders Charles Taze Russell. Reverend Jim Jones, William Miller, Joseph Smith
Why do i think this?
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
False teachers - is this group condemned as False Prophets - no, just says they are last in heaven Not in - 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 12:31:15 GMT -5
Interesting reading Dave. And I agree with these thoughts.
However the Bible talks of salvation as a process, and does list it's own steps, using it's own words... God showed me this many years ago... I thought you might be interested in how the Bible presented it.
Ps 46:10 is a nice Scripture promise about the Hebrew word "yada" meaning to be intimate with Elohiym, as in a relationship, not just know about GOD, but walk with GOD in relationship. Its a prayer promise.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Oct 20, 2019 15:57:28 GMT -5
What is the only process - the only thing that requires a procedure - the only step by step growth Is how we choose to walk in the Spirit or how closely we listen to the Spirit I thought you might be interested in how the Bible presented it. Ps 46:10 is a nice Scripture promise about the Hebrew word "yada" meaning to be intimate with Elohiym, as in a relationship, not just know about GOD, but walk with GOD in relationship. Its a prayer promise. Salvation is not walking in the spirit one comes before the other You cannot lose your salvation – but you can choose to not walk in the spirit
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 4:34:43 GMT -5
Salvation is not walking in the spirit one comes before the other You cannot lose your salvation – but you can choose to not walk in the spirit
Please explain these thoughts of yours Dave. Why can't you lose your salvation? How do you gain salvation? What comes before the other?
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Sounds like salvation is conditional to me?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Oct 21, 2019 10:23:03 GMT -5
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (for final judgment - does this imply that all of them will be judged equally)
IMO- according to the BULK of scripture – there are 3 ways 1 God reaches down and grabs you – Moses / Abraham / Jonah / (Judas?) 2 The Jewish connection = Job, Enoch, Elijah, Abraham, David, John the Baptist 3 The Passover of Christ = believe and confess – IMO believe = know (gnosis) not hope, we don’t believe in something that isn’t tangible – we know it as tangible. We don’t think it, we don’t believe it – we know it as fact – once you know, you cannot help but confess
The man on the cross next to Christ – said surely you are Him – with knowledge comes confession one comes before the other – this guy died – we are still alive – the next step for us is to build upon this knowledge of fact – seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit – then IMPORTANTLY – listen and be guided – God’s plan for us after that is up to Him – not us
There is a move you should rent – do you steam link I’ll send you a link if you ask The Fourth Wiseman – with martin Sheen (it is not blockbuster, but its message makes me cry)
Example: I love the Lord - yet, I am dying alone in prison for a crime I did not commit. Every mortal that I love has forgotten me, all I do is pray alone in the dark. Thinking I am a failure. But 200 yrs later, my story helps one soul - then my life (that I thought a failure) has only served Him - in His plan - and I am actually blessed.
Gen 3:3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Are Adam and Eve in Christian Hell? No –but they, as all sinners died a mortal death – unlike Enoch and Elijah
It is – the choice is ours
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 12:46:16 GMT -5
Nice words Dave, its comforting to read how somebody else sees salvation, and how it goes with you.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
The key to assurance of salvation, of allowing Jesus to save us , is our confidence and our faith. We really need to understand what faith is, and how you get more and more of this faith from Jesus. Faith is a gift, but it also a thing we can do to receive it. Faith comes when you support GOD and thus GOD supports you back. When you hand holds His hand, that's supporting Him, and He supporting you. When you daily eat His words in the torah, the manna of those words support you, as eating food supports your cells. When you confess with your mouth words, you can speak ordinary words of English or the words of Scripture as Bible promises of power, such words show you are supporting GOD via your mouth. That's how I see faith. My wife who had a Father who was Catholic says Catholics read prayer words of Scripture, isn't this what I am saying? I don't know, I am not a Catholic, nor ever been to Catholic churches, so I don't know. There are many good Catholics in their system, and GOD calls all his sheep from different folds.
For example, each night I pray Lord remember me at 3:00 am for worshipping you. Its a prayer promise of power, from Jer 33:3 to allow GOD to wake me at whatever time we choose. And He does. Is this a miracle? So of, a daily one for me, it strengthens me to know GOD each morning.
Many years ago I tried a public prayer promise on a person in need, claiming a promise, but it seemed not to work. I have learned that some kinds of prayer requests require deeper prayer, and fasting, as Scripture highlights. Hence in our training for stronger meat, and a deeper walk in the Lord, there are many experiences to learn.
I studied intently the manna miracle that fell in 1945, and why, and how it falls sometimes even to this day in Namba. Funny our church Pastors are not even interested in learning why it falls, and how to experience this kind of faith in GOD. I believe it fell because a tiny 4 year old girl supported Jesus, and Jesus supported her back with a miracle, but other factors were also in place such as group praying, pleading, fasting, humility and all conscience know sins removed.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-1506.htm Manna miracle study
I am the "manna" that falls from heaven.
Ex 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
Hebrew "man" is a simile of "bread" a simile of "torah" a simile of "memrah", the words personified in Jesus, from the Father. Hence supporting His words, is the Biblical way to obtaining this "manna" this "man" Jesus.
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