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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2020 14:20:44 GMT -5
Your reply Dave is very similar to my own, you see sin, as I do, following the torah as I do, you don't call it relationship, just use different words.
Some of your answers are good:
I have sat in several endless Bible Studies trapped in the circular discussion of John 1:1-4. No one gets its – it is it totally existential – and most folk are unable to think abstractly
Well said
The Archons burden the soul, attracting us to works of evil, and pull us down into oblivion, make us forget who we are. (The Apocrypha of John II 22: 14-10, though 27-20.)"
Well said
We can choose chata (sin) – and move in the direction of RA by choosing choshek (darkness, deception, anti-Christ) - ignorance - forgetting God - disregarding God - not Seeking the Kingdom of God
You relate choshek as ra, a shadow not covered by light, indeed a umbra shadow. This is taught by the shadow experiment. You agree, but cannot understand making umbra shadows does not require a human or satanic creator, it's a relationship change tot he Father of light.
Dave writes:
No angel ever choose anything Your Ezk 28 = God set thee so – God’s plan – God’s will
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
You take the words "God set thee so" out of context. Sure GOD set the chief angel to be an anointed cherub. God designed Him to walk among the laws, to guard the laws. God designed Him to be perfect in all things.
But
Notice the change in the Hebrew:
" till iniquity <`evel> was found <matsa'> in thee." Not just guilt, not sin, but "Evil" found in thee.
Why the change?
The Scripture explains why...
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
This cherub (chief archon) did a multitude of merchandise, filled with violence, GOD will destroy thee...
This does not sound like a few seconds....of sinning by the chief archon cherub.
Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Who are these kings which behold the chief archon cherub sinning? The kings of other unfallen worlds, which do not sin.
Your making sin, into something designed, a function made by the Father unto an angel by design... no...no If you read through Ezekiel, the book you once said was not holy and should be discarded, now you use it to suit your means, the word clearly tell a story of the power behind King Tyre. A power who rules King Tyre. That is what sin is about. Relationships who rule over you...not a by product of creation.... this is why the King Tyre story is there also... The simile and metaphor tell us the power who rules King Tyre is a Being, who sins like King Tyre Sins, not a designed by product of creation, or a design of function by the Father... no . Sin is a relationship gone wrong. And rulers of sin, rule over you once you also sin.
Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Does this chief archon cherub who sinned, sin for a few seconds? no "multitude of thine iniquities" sounds like to me, the sinning made fruit, as sin has to in order for creatures to see sin.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
God has prophesied this chief archon cherub who sinned first among his angels, will be destroyed and be no more.
Why didn't God destroy Him straight away? After all you declare GOD is a murderer?
Dave writes:
Thank God for it = Praise God for it – Praise God for the archon and satan Because of them – we can demonstrate our virtue in full view of the Lord Without being tested – how can there be a demonstration of obedience?
Wow I would never thank GOD for evil. Smoking. I have never smoked nor been tempted to smoke. I don't need smokes to experience the health of non-smoking. I also do not drink alcohol. I have had maybe a sip once or twice because my Dad asked me to, but I have never done this dysfunction either. I have never shot animals either for fun or for food, this is similar to murdering creatures. Sadly I have had to kill some creatures, like dogs, cats, snakes, so I understand the strange act of removing the life from creatures, and I do not pose to understand all matters pertaining to God. "Without being tested – how can there be a demonstration of obedience?"
Your obedience is designed as a function, mine is purely based on unconditional love. Your obedience has the Father designing sin and archons with functions of sin to test you, purely for no reason than to force you to do tov rather than sin with ra, all designed by the Father. It's silly. Why is the Father a tyrant? He designed all things, the sin, the test, the good and the bad, He does murder and love, both evil and good, and yet because He designed all things this way we have no choice but to serve Him as he designs? There is no freedom here Dave, no free will to serve GOD out of love? Your obedience is based on design, your choices are restricted to obey GOD or not obey GOD, because GOD demands this.
My obedience is based on love, love is relational, not a design. God is relational, not designed to be a family of three coeternal Beings. God is family from eternity and loving within the family from eternity, the family came into Being, as One source of love, but loving has personalities because love is relational. You don't have a GOD like this, hence you are twisted into a different model for everything, you leave out relationships in your model.
What is love Dave? There are two Hebrew words for love? Ahab and Ahabuh. Not three, not one. But two. Why is that? Because love is relational. Love requires more than one Being. Love has parental personalities of loving, not as you say a Most High who shows loving in two ways, via a spirit or a son. That's not a family model.
Eph 3:15,16 names all three members, and say every family in heaven is named... was the divine elohiym family powers named? Yes
Old name New Name Michael YHWH Yashuah Eloah YHWH Father Shadday Holy Spirit
The word YHWH is a functional title, has two "heys" in it, two personal Beings, to masculine Beings who love using mostly Ahab. The Holy Spirit is mostly a Ahabuh personality. All members of loving can do either Ahab or Ahabuh, but personalities have major loving perferences. The Father does mostly Agape The Son does both Agape and Philos The Holy Spirit does mostly Philos Many say Greek has other words for love, but these are not developed in the NT Hebrew scriptures, afterall the Hebrew was written first as a tongue, the other tongue came later. Hebrew only has two words for love.
Dave writes : "Who are these ‘other gods’? = (H430) elohiym – Baal, Molech, Tammuz, Isthar, Dogan, = all archon Bane elohiym – sons of elohiym ‘other gods’ = archon
I see. The Sons of ELohiym are angels? no
Ps 8:5 For thou hast made him(mankind) a little lower than the (angels) elohiym, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Mankind is made a little lower than elohiym, not cherub, not even written anywhere.
Sons of elohym, must refer to humans, not angels, look up all the contexts of "ben elohiym" Job 1:6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Ben doesn't not mean humans as a kind, Ben means "Home over the nations" and can refer to other unfallen Beings whho also are prince kings of their kingdom. They come to GOD for meetings as Satan, now King also did. Did this chief archon (you term a satan) cherub, also make a kingdom? hence become a king? yes He tricked Adam into losing His crown over earth. Hence the functional noun, satan, become a proper noun for this King of earth, ie SATAN.
Dave writes: "
God ordered the death of all the first born in Egypt Some are terminated in a second death – death of spirit – by God in the end Tell me why this is not murder? Can you?
This is a hard thought.
Why didn't GOD destroy the chief archon who sinned first and briefly ? It was designed as a test for humans. SO there was no real war in heaven, just a by product of creation, designed that way? OK
Why didn't GOD do this murder of the first born sons first? rather than last? Why have 10 plagues anyway? Why not just murder Pharaoh and Egyptians who do ra? Your leaving out "love" from your model.
Love is relational and requires "time" and Beings to make "fruit" from their sinning.
When does the umbra shadow go away? You tell me, the shadow experiment remember? You walk away further and further until you hit the medium edge of observation. Can't go any further can you?
Try the experiment yourself.
Move away from the Father of Light, with a pen in your hand, towards the tables of Law, and suddenly the tables stops the movement. You come to an end. The experiment is over. You cannot move further from GOD, so probation experiment has limits in time and space. So once the experiment is over, God switches off His light, and bingo, you and your umbra shadows vanish. Murder would be wounding you while you have the freedom to move within the boundaries of the Father and the tables of Law. God doesn't do this. The first death is a sleep anyway. The second death is a different kind of ending of you and your umbra shadows of ra. How does God end you than? By switching off His light? Oh NO. The first death is like this. The second death is very different. The light gets brighter and brighter, seven fold in fact, until you shadows vanish, and you vanish, burned by the burning presence of love. Unless your love proof, fire proof, you cannot do exist next to the Father of light, now fully restored.
I would ponder these things.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Mar 17, 2020 19:15:14 GMT -5
Correction – set the chief archon that covereth H5526 to block, overshadow, screen, stop the approach, shut off, cover to cover, defecate (euphemism) סָכַךְ çâkak, saw-kak'; or שָׂכַךְ sâkak; (Exodus 33:22), a primitive root; properly, to entwine
YES! - Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'.
He was good until he expressed the first ‘God-is-not-absolute’ thought
The Gap Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was waste and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. When did the eath and heaven have no light – before Gen 1:3 Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved to and fro. Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. There were no men yet – but birds (flying things) heavenly beings Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful field was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of Jehovah, and before his fierce anger. All the cities – but not of men – before Gen 1:3
Then the establichment of the choshek Jer 4:27 For thus saith Jehovah, The whole land shall be a desolation; yet will I not make a full end. Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and I have not repented, neither will I turn back from it.
Yes a lot happened in the Gap – an entire Gen-Rev aeon/age
Then along comes Gen 1:3 And the cycle repeats – as in heaven so on earth
Ecc 1:9 (TLV) What has been is what will be, and what has been done will be done again. There is nothing new under the sun.
Because God uses the archon for a purpose – to test creation – God’s tool
Eph 5:20 always giving thanks for everything to God the Father, in the name of the Lord Yeshua the Messiah.
Jas 1:2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
Jas 1:12 Happy is the one who endures testing, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life, which the Lord promised to those who love Him.
2Co 4:17 For our trouble, light and momentary, is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, Without the ra - how could we demonstrate our mitzvah, virture, obedience - and to reap the rewards
1Th 5:16 Rejoice always; 1Th 5:17 pray without ceasing; 1Th 5:18 in everything give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus to you-ward. 1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit;
So mankind is not the elohiym but man is the son of who? Elohiym And human were in heaven presenting themselves to God along with satan So – these are human who live in heaven as humans Then these heavily humans came down to earth
Since they are not spirit beings (there are human) they must have come down to earth in flying saucers – right – humanoid aliens – just as all the UFO followers suggest
Correction – all ‘other god’s’ (small g = elohiym) All ‘other god’s’ are a satan = elohiym If you insist on making the First Archon a Cherub – then Cherubs = elohiym
Trinity above – then elohiym (heavenly beings) which some are archon YES – Trinity = a heavenly being and therefore elohiym – always plural to represent the Trinity Some times – el is mentioned as above all elohiym – as the Father is above all creation Jos 22:22 el of the elohiym
It is hard for Catholics to even consider it – God is Feel Good – only does TOV To kill – is to take a live to save another or by accident To murder – is never defensive – premeditated
The argument was between Pharaoh and Moses – God RA and YHWY Why did God punish Egyptian mud brick builders that worked hard to feed their families 99.999% had no clue what goes on the Pharaoh’s court 99.999% of them had no clue of what was even happening
Because the Feel Good message is flawed – follow the Lord and is it all happiness? Ask Job!
What do you mean “Real War?” – tanks, planes, submarines, soldiers, bombs, bullets, and blood?
Rev 12:7 And war (G4171) broke out in heaven,
G4171 - From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); warfare (literally or figuratively; a single encounter or a series): And a (bustle) broke out in heaven And a (single encounter) broke out in heaven Also satisfy the translation
It could be as simple as – God told Michael to tell them to get out – and they left in protest
Gnostic – even if it means ‘And a (series of encounters) broke out in heaven’ – it was all over when the Light of Gen 1:3 appeared
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2020 13:35:06 GMT -5
Dave investigates:"
Rev 12:7 And war (G4171) broke out in heaven,
G4171 - From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); warfare (literally or figuratively; a single encounter or a series): And a (bustle) broke out in heaven And a (single encounter) broke out in heaven Also satisfy the translation
That is not how you analyse a word in an unknown tongue, you look up all the contexts. Not just the one your want to:
Mt 24:6 And <de> ye shall <mello> hear <akouo> of wars <polemos> and <kai> rumours <akoe> of wars <polemos>: see <horao> that ye be <throeo> not <me> troubled <throeo>: for <gar> all <pas> these things must <dei> come to pass <ginomai>, but <alla> the end <telos> is <esti> not yet <oupo>.
Polemos is a real earth war.
Mr 13:7 And <de> when <hotan> ye shall hear <akouo> of wars <polemos> and <kai> rumours <akoe> of wars <polemos>, be ye <throeo> not <me> troubled <throeo>: for <gar> such things must <dei> needs be <ginomai>; but <alla> the end <telos> shall not be yet <oupo>.
Polemos is a real earth war.
Lu 14:31 Or <e> what <tis> king <basileus>, going <poreuomai> to make <sumballo> war <polemos> against <eis> another <heteros> king <basileus>, sitteth <kathizo> not <ouchi> down <kathizo> first <proton>, and consulteth <bouleuo> whether <ei> he be <esti> able <dunatos> with <en> ten <deka> thousand <chilias> to meet <apantao> him that cometh <erchomai> against <epi> him <autos> with <meta> twenty <eikosi> thousand <chilias>?
Polemos is a real earth war.
Lu 21:9 But <de> when <hotan> ye shall hear <akouo> of wars <polemos> and <kai> commotions <akatastasia>, be <ptoeo> not <me> terrified <ptoeo>: for <gar> these things <tauta> must <dei> first <proton> come to pass <ginomai>; but <alla> the end <telos> is not <ou> by and by <eutheos>.
Polemos is a real earth war.
1Co 14:8 For <gar> <kai> if <ean> the trumpet <salpigx> give <didomi> an uncertain <adelos> sound <phone>, who <tis> shall prepare himself <paraskeuazo> to <eis> the battle <polemos>?
Polemos is a real earth war/battle. Jews had trumpets to warn close the gates, get ready for battle and war.
Heb 11:34 Quenched <sbennumi> the violence <dunamis> of fire <pur>, escaped <pheugo> the edge <stoma> of the sword <machaira>, out of <apo> weakness <astheneia> were made strong <endunamoo>, waxed <ginomai> valiant <ischuros> in <en> fight <polemos>, turned to flight <klino> the armies <parembole> of the aliens <allotrios>.
Strange verse? It's talking about the persecution battles and wars the so called hectic went through, wars in the mind, over so called religious groups claiming the right to war upon others of different faith.
Jas 4:1 ¶ From whence <pothen> come wars <polemos> and <kai> fightings <mache> among <en> you <humin>? come they not <ou> hence <enteuthen>, even of <ek> your <humon> lusts <hedone> that war <strateuomai> in <en> your <humon> members <melos>?
James is still talking about battles, wars in the mind, persecutions, etc.
Re 9:7 And <kai> the shapes <homoioma> of the locusts <akris> were like <homoios> unto horses <hippos> prepared <hetoimazo> unto <eis> battle <polemos>; and <kai> on <epi> their <autos> heads <kephale> were as it were <hos> crowns <stephanos> like <homoios> gold <chrusos>, and <kai> their <autos> faces <prosopon> were as <hos> the faces <prosopon> of men <anthropos>.
A poetry picture of war, making reference to a religious war over others of different faith.
Re 9:9 And <kai> they had <echo> breastplates <thorax>, as it were <hos> breastplates <thorax> of iron <sidereos>; and <kai> the sound <phone> of their <autos> wings <pterux> was as <hos> the sound <phone> of chariots <harma> of many <polus> horses <hippos> running <trecho> to <eis> battle <polemos>.
Still a picture of battles, persecutions, wars.
Re 11:7 And <kai> when <hotan> they shall have finished <teleo> their <autos> testimony <marturia>, the beast <therion> that ascendeth <anabaino> out of <ek> the bottomless pit <abussos> shall make <poieo> war <polemos> against <meta> them <autos>, and <kai> shall overcome <nikao> them <autos>, and <kai> kill <apokteino> them <autos>. Re 12:7 And <kai> there was <ginomai> war <polemos> in <en> heaven <ouranos>: Michael <Michael> and <kai> his <autos> angels <aggelos> fought <polemeo> against <kata> the dragon <drakon>; and <kai> the dragon <drakon> fought <polemeo> and <kai> his <autos> angels <aggelos>,
War in heaven must be pictured along the same lines as all other verses of context.
Re 12:17 And <kai> the dragon <drakon> was wroth <orgizo> with <epi> the woman <gune>, and <kai> went <aperchomai> to make <poieo> war <polemos> with <meta> the remnant <loipoy> of her <autos> seed <sperma>, which <ho> keep <tereo> the commandments <entole> of God <theos>, and <kai> have <echo> the testimony <marturia> of Jesus <Iesous> Christ <Christos>.
Here the war is spelled out. Its a war of minds, persecution of the mind, for your support of God, or support of another relationship who rules your mind with lies, cheating and hate. Anything of tactic to produce false doctrine is a war.
Re 13:7 And <kai> it was given <didomi> unto him <autos> to make <poieo> war <polemos> with <meta> the saints <hagios>, and <kai> to overcome <nikao> them <autos>: and <kai> power <exousia> was given <didomi> him <autos> over <epi> all <pas> kindreds <phule>, and <kai> tongues <glossa>, and <kai> nations <ethnos>.
Anything of tactic to produce false doctrine is a war, including torture, persecution, slander, killing and murder. Also forced vaccines against your will, thrown into FEMA camps against your will, forced to comply against your will.
Re 16:14 For <gar> they are <eisi> the spirits <pneuma> of devils <daimon>, working <poieo> miracles <semeion>, which go forth <ekporeuomai> <hos> <ekporeuomai> unto <epi> the kings <basileus> of the earth <ge> and <kai> of the whole <holos> world <oikoumene>, to gather <sunago> them <autos> to <eis> the battle <polemos> of that <ekeinos> great <megas> day <hemera> of God <theos> Almighty <pantokrator>.
Interesting, a war against the Holy Spirit, who uses the powers of the Father (Elohiym).
Problem is you have the war elements on both sides of the general, all designed by the general. This is the same tactic the Masons used in world war I and II. The USA set up Hitler, and Hitler bought oil off the USA for years into the war, so called. It was a fake war.
The Father sets up the archon, and sin, and designs humans to be tested. It's a fake war, and a mockery of war and battles.
A true war has purposed differences of opinion and freedoms on both sides.
Re 19:19 And <kai> I saw <eido> the beast <therion>, and <kai> the kings <basileus> of the earth <ge>, and <kai> their <autos> armies <strateuma>, gathered together <sunago> to make <poieo> war <polemos> against <meta> him that sat <kathemai> on <epi> the horse <hippos>, and <kai> against <meta> his <autos> army <strateuma>.
Here the coronavirus is going to make war on all the saints. A true war. It is going to force you to be herded up against your will, to take vaccines, or prison, or do as your told, or prison. One world gov will not tolerate people of different faith. Its a war of words, minds and control of your will.
That means the archon who sinned is NOT designed by the Father, and runs a different world than the Father would. A world opposing the Father, since the Chief Archon Satan first sinned. You don't get this, and trust your Gnostic writings over the Bible.
Re 20:8 And <kai> shall go out <exerchomai> to deceive <planao> the nations <ethnos> which <ho> are in <en> the four <tessares> quarters <gonia> of the earth <ge>, Gog <Gog> and <kai> Magog <Magog>, to gather <sunago> them <autos> together <sunago> to <eis> battle <polemos>: the number <arithmos> of whom <hos> is as <hos> the sand <ammos> of the sea <thalassa>. (KJV)
And so the last context is about wars that deceive.
The coronavirus war is going globally to deceive people, war their minds, take away the only thing that GOD gave us, choice.
When you look at all the verses in the NT Dave, the war in heaven was a real war, not a fake or designed element of GOD.
Dave writes:
The argument was between Pharaoh and Moses – God RA and YHWY Why did God punish Egyptian mud brick builders that worked hard to feed their families 99.999% had no clue what goes on the Pharaoh’s court 99.999% of them had no clue of what was even happening
I doubt this, grape vine communication. Everybody would be up to date. Facebook does this today. Social media gossip, what's the latest with Moses they ask?
Dave writes : "
It is hard for Catholics to even consider it – God is Feel Good – only does TOV To kill – is to take a live to save another or by accident To murder – is never defensive – premeditated
God gave me a thought yesterday on the walk to work:
The wages of sin-offering is death, the NT says in Hebrew. Why? Because the righteous have to confess sins to a sin bearer, and there is a death with these sinning's confessed.
But this is NOT talking about the wicked.
How does death work for a wicked person?
Ge 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (KJV)
It says if you have tov and ra both in your world, you will experience a daily death death process. A daily dying death.
You say GOD designed this already for Adam? no He did NOT. The tree designed for Adam was the tree of life, with no daily dying death in it.
As soon as the tov/ra world came into our earth from Adam's sinning, as king of earth, a change of king happened, as relationship demands, and we began daily dying death process. Meaning? the DNA began decaying, entropy, mutations, cosmic ray damage etc.
So the living wicked are already daily dying the death process, its a natural process of living in a ra world with the tov world.
Another aspect of GOD is wonders, or miracles, the ability to over ride natural consequences of natural laws. In other words, GOD can speed up the process of daily dying process of death, or slow it down. Therefore to say as you claim this is murder is false. God is not killing anybody... the daily dying process of the second death is already happening every day.
The commandment "no wounding" refers to a human removing the ability of another human who is experiencing this daily dying process of the second death, from a chance of living eternally in a relationship with GOD. You can do this simply by mocking them or deceiving them using false writings. To the torah and the testimony the Bible says.
Did GOD give the Egyptians time to seek GOD will they were daily dying experiencing the process of the second death? Yes, some Egyptians placed blood over their door posts, some were saved, 13 tribes in fact.
Dave writes:
And human were in heaven presenting themselves to God along with satan So – these are human who live in heaven as humans
I didn't say they were humans. These would be other kinds of kings of unfallen worlds coming to meetings by GOD.
You don't get the purpose of the serpent in the Garden, was to remove Adam's crown as king, so Satan would be king.
Does not Jesus term Satan a prince of earth? Why is that? Because earth is his world. This is NOT designed by GOD, its a relationship change, a war, a battle over souls, a real war, not a fake designed testing, as you claim.
When Napoleon Bonaparte went to a German merchant to fund his army, this is not a real war, its fake.
Julius Caesar was a real general in a real war, nobody opposed him. He took as he wanted to.
Alexander Great was also a real war fighter.
Wars have different opinions and religions that clash. Hitler and the USA was the same religion in secret.
Catholics who warred in the Dark Ages, hated the true Christians who differed from them, hence it was a real war, but it was made to appear a holy cause. You could be killed just for being different to them.
Once you design all things from the Father, Dave, you no longer have differences in religion, all things tov and ra come from the Father is NOT correct. You have misunderstood the shadow experiment and how umbra shadows are created by light. The Father does not personally create the sin, you in relationship to Him does.
This war is heaven according to you, had no differences in religion, all designed by GOD, than by definition its not a war.
When the corona virus comes to you with mandatory vaccines, you will have to abandon your choice of religions or no. God says no wounding. Vaccines wound living systems. Governments are removing choices. Forced submission.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Mar 18, 2020 21:11:00 GMT -5
You are so frustrating – your analysis is superficial – and whatever electronic text you are using it terrible at Greek
Jas 4:1 (TLV) Where do quarrels and conflicts among you come from? Jas 4:1 (YLY) Whence are wars and fightings among you? Jas 4:1 Πόθεν πόλεμοι καὶ πόθεν μάχαι ἐν ὑμῖν; Πόλεμοι = plural – dat – wars/battels
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars Mat 24:6 μελλήσετε δὲ ἀκούειν πολέμους καὶ ἀκοὰς πολέμων· Πολέμους – plural - nom / πολέμων· - plural – gen – wars / battels
Mar 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, Mar 13:7 ὅταν δὲ ἀκούσητε πολέμους καὶ ἀκοὰς πολέμων, Πολέμους – plural - nom / πολέμων· - plural – gen – wars/battles
Luk 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars Luk 21:9 ὅταν δὲ ἀκούσητε πολέμους Πολέμους – plural – nom – wars / battles
War(s)/battles – more than one I also said – which you failed to quote Gnostic – even if it means ‘And a (series of encounters) broke out in heaven’ – it was all over when the Light of Gen 1:3 appeared
All of these verses are speaking of this reality not in heaven – this is nothing more than the Contest at play
1Co 14:8 for if also an uncertain sound a trumpet may give, who shall prepare himself for battle? 1Co 14:8 καὶ γὰρ ἐὰν ἄδηλον φωνὴν σάλπιγξ δῷ, τίς παρασκευάσεται εἰς πόλεμον; Πόλεμον – sing – acc = Battel – a single encounter
Heb 11:34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the mouth of the sword, were made powerful out of infirmities, became strong in battle, caused to give way camps of the aliens. Heb 11:34 ἔσβεσαν δύναμιν πυρός, ἔφυγον στόματα μαχαίρας, ἐνεδυναμώθησαν ἀπὸ ἀσθενείας, ἐγενήθησαν ἰσχυροὶ ἐν πολέμῳ, παρεμβολὰς ἔκλιναν ἀλλοτρίων. πολέμῳ - sing – dat = Battel – a single encounter
Rev 9:7 Now the appearance of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. Rev 9:7 καὶ τὰ ὁμοιώματα τῶν ἀκρίδων ὅμοια ἵπποις ἡτοιμασμένοις εἰς πόλεμον, Πόλεμον – sing – acc = Battel – a single encounter
Rev 9:9 They had chests like iron breastplates; and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many horse-drawn chariots rushing into battle. Rev 9:9 καὶ εἶχον θώρακας ὡς θώρακας σιδηροῦς, καὶ ἡ φωνὴ τῶν πτερύγων αὐτῶν ὡς φωνὴ ἁρμάτων ἵππων πολλῶν τρεχόντων εἰς πόλεμον. Πόλεμον – sing – acc = Battel – a single encounter
Rev 11:7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the abyss will make war on them, Rev 11:7 καὶ ὅταν τελέσωσι τὴν μαρτυρίαν αὐτῶν, τὸ θηρίον τὸ ἀναβαῖνον ἐκ τῆς ἀβύσσου ποιήσει μετ᾿ αὐτῶν πόλεμον καὶ νικήσει αὐτοὺς καὶ ἀποκτενεῖ αὐτούς. Πόλεμον – sing – acc = Battel – a single encounter
Rev 12:7 And war broke out in heaven Rev 12:7 Καὶ ἐγένετο πόλεμος ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ· Πόλεμος – sing – nom = Battel – a single encounter
Rev 13:7 and there was given to it to make war with the saints, Rev 13:7 καὶ ἐδόθη αὐτῷ πόλεμον ποιῆσαι μετὰ τῶν ἁγίων Πόλεμον – sing – acc = Battel – a single encounter
Rev 16:14 for they are spirits of demons, doing signs—which go forth unto the kings of the earth, and of the whole world, to bring them together to the battle of that great day of God the Almighty; Rev 16:14 εἰσὶ γὰρ πνεύματα δαιμονίων ποιοῦντα σημεῖα, ἃ ἐκπορεύεται ἐπὶ τοὺς βασιλεῖς τῆς οἰκουμένης ὅλης, συναγαγεῖν αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸν πόλεμον τῆς ἡμέρας ἐκείνης τῆς μεγάλης τοῦ Θεοῦ τοῦ παντοκράτορος. Πόλεμον – sing – acc = Battel – a single encounter
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, having been gathered together to make war with him who is sitting upon the horse, and with his army; Rev 19:19 Καὶ εἶδον τὸ θηρίον καὶ τοὺς βασιλεῖς τῆς γῆς καὶ τὰ στρατεύματα αὐτῶν συνηγμένα ποιῆσαι τὸν πόλεμον μετὰ τοῦ καθημένου ἐπὶ τοῦ ἵππου καὶ μετὰ τοῦ στρατεύματος αὐτοῦ. Πόλεμον – sing – acc = Battel – a single encounter
Rev 20:8 and he shall go forth to lead the nations astray, that are in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them together to war, Rev 20:8 καὶ ἐξελεύσεται πλανῆσαι τὰ ἔθνη τὰ ἐν ταῖς τέσσαρσι γωνίαις τῆς γῆς, τὸν Γὼγ καὶ τὸν Μαγώγ, συναγαγεῖν αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸν πόλεμον, Πόλεμον – sing – acc = Battel – a single encounter
Every reference in Revelation = singular – a single battle – a single encounter 1 Sam 5 God vrs Dogon – no contest – no tanks – not planes – just over before they knew it
I stand by my translation
You evade the question - murder
NO HE DID NOT – YHWY did not introduce Himself to anyone except Abraham, Isaac, and Moses Common Egyptians had no clue what was going on
Need documentation for kings of unfallen worlds?
Then scripture is wrong
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
Jer 4:27 For thus saith Jehovah, The whole land shall be a desolation; yet will I not make a full end. 28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and I have not repented, neither will I turn back from it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2020 14:08:25 GMT -5
Dave writes: "I stand by my translation
Rob replies: "Single encounter" fine.
Ex 15:3 The LORD is a man of war "Single encounter": the LORD is his name. You would love this verse.
To me GOD fight religions different to HIS own, but you have both religions on the same side?
Rob: " Once you design all things from the Father, Dave, you no longer have differences in religion, all things tov and ra come from the Father is NOT correct.
Dave: "Then scripture is wrong
Maybe your interpretation of Scripture is wrong... I see GOD a GOD of single encounters, over differences in religion. Otherwise it's not a single encounter.
Lu 23:11 And Herod with his men of war "single encounter" set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate.
How many times did these "men of single encounter" mock, flog, torture and finally kill Jesus?
Mocked at least 7 times during the night meetings, flogged twice, spat upon many times, and crucified once. So your "single encounter" translation does not really fit the word meaning?
Dave: "NO HE DID NOT – YHWY did not introduce Himself to anyone except Abraham, Isaac, and Moses Common Egyptians had no clue what was going on
Rob writes: " Really? Why did some Egyptians do the blood on door post thing? Why 13 tribes come out of the Exodus, the Manasseh tribe is more Egyptian is it not?
So your saying Israel did not witness to their neighbour's the whole time?
Dave: "You evade the question - murder
Rob: " No I didn't. I said GOD showed me a thought, He showed me, for wicked people sinning, they are already daily dying the second death process. Is this not a death process?
Are not miracles examples of GOD overriding the process of naturalism and His natural laws?
Consider these thoughts?
I do not see GOD removing the possibility or time, for all of Egypt to be saved from their daily dying? Your saying they did not know. If that were true, than GOD was a murderer. But I don't see that. After 9 plagues, all People would question and ask the Hebrews what's going on. I see a GOD of love, wanting relationships, you don't see this.
Dave: "Need documentation for kings of unfallen worlds?
Rob: " Scripture is few on this topic:
Why is Satan called a prince (sar) a king? Why is Michael (Jesus) also called a (sar) a prince or king? Why does the Ancient of Days, give His Son, Jesus, a kingdom, hence His right to become a prince In Daniel 4?
Why is the pole Moses made, set up with "Saraph" which means "burning Beings", and thus Moses makes simile of a serpent... The pole is about choice of religion, two beings of burning are on the pole, the way you look, the Holy Spirit knows your intent, do you see and support Satan the burning angel, or Christ the burning Being of Elohiym?
Both seraph Beings are kings or princes in a contest struggle, why did Jesus come to earth? To get his right or being a King or prince back. Jesus doesn't become King until, the other prince is finally killed and all his kingdom burned up.
If this other chief archon is called a prince or king, why would the Father require two kings of the same planet earth? That is not a war, or single encounter, because they are not opposing opponents.
If they are opposing princes, who hate each other, and war over earth, it does make sense.
Again you do not answer why Jesus died?
Ex 21:22 ¶ If "a prince Being" strive, and hurt a "Holy Spirit Being" with child, so that her fruit depart from her, (future children to care for, ie Adam and Eve) and 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
Did this "so called prince" defeat the Holy Spirit in a single encounter battle? Yes Adam sinned, and lost his crown as prince, so Satan is now prince.
The only way to get back this crown, is for a Saviour to offer in death something as eternal as life for life. It's a costly sacrifice. Eternal.
God's laws are super strict.
Sure I changed them a little, but only in changing the mankind reference to a divine reference.
This law flows out of the ten commandments, and is a part of why sin is a big deal to GOD.
I don't see Jesus death as trivial, as if it is designed as a test, the Father is making trivial the death of His Son... you mocking the fact that both Satan and Christ are princes fighting over humans as their subjects in a kingdom. Its a real war over two opposing religions.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Mar 19, 2020 21:33:15 GMT -5
Thank you for this – this is exactly why I had to step away from catholic thinking God fights other religions – wow how very weak you make God and how elevated you make ‘other gods’ God is unable to control His own creation – God must be very weak indeed ‘other gods’ – other powers are able to overthrow God’s one and only plan – TOV These other powers are able to alter the will of God – and now God is at war with all these other gods’ and their religions What a bunch of Catholic nonsense! God created everything – period God’s plan for the cosmos is unfolding exactly as God’s will dictates I told you that your Greek source is failing you You began a discussion about Rev 12:7 And there was war (G4171) G4171 – πόλεμος - From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); warfare (literally or figuratively; a single encounter or a series): - battle, fight, war. Then to prove your point you quote Lu 23:11 And Herod with his men of war (G4753)" G4753 – στράτευμα - From G4754; an armament, that is, (by implication) a body of troops (more or less extensive or systematic): - army, soldier, man of war. Not the same word – not even from the same rootSee how one dimensional Catholic thinks is The Chief Archon – if you must call him a ‘sar’ – then he is the ‘sar’ of Gen 1:1 earth – all physical cosmos- the Commander and Chief of all Archon The ‘sar’ of the earth of Gen 1:9 – this one planet of zillions = a Captian in the Chief Archons ranks The 'sar' of Persia (Dan 10:13) - is a leutenet in the Chief Archon's ranks Exo 11:5 and all the first-born in the land of Egypt shall die,I am speaking to the whole – the totality – all of Egypt You respond about the few who lived near the court and the slaves Again – I am speaking to a much bigger reality that Catholicism allows I see – now the Bane elohiym = Michael and Jesus as well as satan You are struggling to defend a false doctrine I know that from your Catholic perspective – I am supposed to say that Jesus had to die 1- to shed his blood as a human sacrifice – so his blood can wash away the sins of the world 2- to satisfy the requirement that Jesus be the Sacrificial Lamb 3- to defeat satan and all his plans Gnostic – Jesus had to die – because he had to suffer everything every mortal man suffers This proves – NOTHING – every religious leader from the past is dead But – 1- The Resurrection is the revelation that the spirit realm is true fact 2 – the Torah is true fact 3 – that Jesus Christ is without a doubt everything He said He was - God incarnate 4- and to offer a personal Pentecost to everyone who gnosis Jn 3:16 Catholic = and the promise you will be given eternal life Gnostic / Jewish – we are already created eternal – some loose there immortality in the end Jesus death was designed in Gen 1:3 – when the Light pushed the Chohsek into its own realm Again – as a Jew or a Gnostic – the death of Jesus is not the important point Jesus was the only one to be resurrected! Now that is a big deal and that validates all of scripture Again you are thinking one dimensionally – whose test? The archon tried to stop Jesus – did they succeed? Theology must address all of the cosmos of this uni-verse and all realities of the multi-verse Thank you – the contest is about physicality – corporeal reality – our realm – humanity – NOT against GODThe Contest is between two different paradigms - Gen 3:15 – Eve’s seed and satan’s seed – Man and archon – NOT archon against GODThe two paradigms = TOV – RA Truth vrs ignorance Truth vrs religion (even if the religion claims authority by God – Catholics) What is the witness of the Resurrection = truth Denial, doubt, disregard, lack of interest, or following and ‘other god’ of any substance = ignorance Isa 14:24 Jehovah of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely, as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand: Proverbs 19:21 (ESV) Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand.Pro 16:4 Jehovah hath made everything for its own end; Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Psa 135:6 Whatsoever Jehovah pleased, that hath he done, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps; Psa 103:19 Jehovah hath established his throne in the heavens; And his kingdom ruleth over all. Lam 3:37 Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not? Amo 3:6 Shall the trumpet be blown in a city, and the people not be afraid? shall evil befall a city, and Jehovah hath not done it? Gen 50:20 And as for you, ye meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. There is only one Creator – the cosmos is unfolding exactly as God planned Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. Again – my God is the only Creator – the Contest is God’s plan for creation Your job is to recognized God in all of it and remember the absoluteness of the Lord
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Post by Dave on Mar 20, 2020 15:03:03 GMT -5
Gen 3 – God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden – that God created In that Garden were to trees – one of life and one of gnosis Life is tov and leads to tove Gnosis is the gnosis of ra / reality Eve was given a choice Then the serpent came to make sure she recognized the choice and make it deceptively appealing Eve chose – to disobey God – to disregard God – to forget what she had been instructed / told
It was the female! - It was feminine!
Adam had a different choice To obey God and be separated from Eve Or choose to be with his mate / wife / spouse
Eve was going to a prisoner of war camp and her husband choose to go with her Adam choose to die with Eve – instead of living alone without her
The Garden was from God Both trees were from God The test was assigned by God – eat of any tree except
The paradigm of Gen 3:15 was established by God –between humans and archon – NOT archons and GOD Eves seed – a product of procreation not creation Satan’s seed – a product of procreation not creation – bane elohiym – archon Except satan is not the name of their parent – The Beast is his name (Chief Archon) – either of which can also be called a satan because of their function
Gen 6 says these bane elohiym (children of the Chief Archon – lessor archon – bad-guy elohiym – bad-guy angels) came to earth and fathered demi-gods Nephilum – it also says they corrupted all the creatures = chimeras
Enoch tells us that they knew the knowledge of the heavens and taught men the art of war and women the art of incantations and potions
Science and technology – at its extreme Atlantis (a culture that eventually destroyed itself and sank beneath the waters) Myth tells us of Wizards and Sorcerers Science tells us of other humanoid creature co-existing – trolls and trogalites Science tells us of the dinosaur – Job tells us of the Behemoth
All very middle earth – Lord of the Rings stuff – all based upon predeluvian earth
After the Flood - 244 times in 207 verses of the ahl only – elohiym is used to identify ‘other gods’ The very first commandment is a restatement of Gen 3:15 – God or ‘other gods’ – NOT God verses ‘other gods’
They MUST exist to afford Eve a delusional (ignorant) suggestion Listen to God – or ‘another god’
Originally – God spoke to only one guy – alone – in private Before Abraham who knew YHWY by name? - After Abraham who knew YWHY as the one true Creator – only the 1% - only a small fraction of the globes total population 1% were introduced to YHWY – leaving the 99% to fend for themselves
The 99% understood the reality of Psalms 19:1 and Rom 1:20 - but to whom do they know to give credit
In step the Archon – who want to be like God – who want to establish their own kingdoms – to be worshiped – like God
Question - Originally – God spoke to only one guy – alone – in private So just how much “interface” would be required to establish a religion?
Joseph Smith had (don’t quote me) something like two visions – a year apart One visit by the angel Mormo and the Mormon Church was invented
Charles Russell had one vision – and the Jehovah’s Witness was born
For ancient man that was never introduced to YHWY – the 99% - one appearance of – or one magical performance of – any elohiym that says worship me and entire cultures were born
“other gods’ of ancient man all had very similar characteristics Enoch Gen 6 were 200 bane elohiym came down to earth with about 20 important named players Annunaki of Sumar – Egyptian God’s – Norse God’s – Greek and Roma Gods = all came down to earth with about 20 important named players All of these god existed as family units – procreated – that were jealous and warned against one another using man as fodder There are 33 ‘other gods’ (elohiym) mentioned by name in the ahl – some from Egypt – some from Sumar/Canaan/ and Asia Minor
WHY – these ‘other gods’ and their religions
Gnostic answer – by the Will of the Father – wanting to reveal His glory to all creation – allowed the sum of all chaos to come about – so that all creation will know who is the “One True Creator”
From the Exodus to Jesus – the entire message to the entire world = When 1% Israel walks with God - the 99% is outmatched, out classed, and out done, by the “One True Creator” Since Jesus the message is “Stand with God” and “Seek the Kingdom” and realize that the 99% is lost, ignorant because they forget what they truly know deep inside
Psa 98:3 He hath remembered his lovingkindness and his faithfulness toward the house of Israel: All the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.
Psa 67:2 That thy way may be known upon earth, Thy salvation among all nations.
God could have introduced Christ to Adam and Eve – but didn’t But that would have limited the ‘sum of all chaos’
Why didn’t Israel listen to God when they had the chance? It would have limited the ‘sum of all chaos’
Jdg 2:1 And the angel of Jehovah came up from Gilgal to Bochim. And he said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you 2 and ye shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall break down their altars. But ye have not hearkened unto my voice: why have ye donethis? 3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.
Why did it take so long for the Messiah to appear - It would have limited the ‘sum of all chaos’
Why is it taking Christ to Come again?
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Repentance from what? Salvation from what – ‘the sum of all chaos’
The de-evolution of man Adam was created immortal and a vegan After Eve’s sin – man was limited to a 1000 yr life span and our ‘bright natures’ were suppressed After Noah – man is giften the freedom to become a carnivore and limited to a 120 yr life span But still – man working together so impressed God that he said
Gen 11:6 And Jehovah said, Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is what they begin to do: and now nothing will be withholden from them, which they purpose to do.
What a compliment from God and as a loving Father He said next:
Gen 11:7 Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Each step of the way – man is de-evolved and the Contest gets harder and more clandestine
For centuries – the Catholic Church has hidden the reality of the archon - ‘other gods’ Turned God’s reality into a pagan myth - all these other gods are imaginary
1948 Israel – 1945 Nag Hammadi – 1947 Dead Sea Scrolls – and the message of the archon is again a topic of discussion = why?
Mat 24:37 And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man. :38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2020 18:24:10 GMT -5
Lu 23:11 And <de> Herod <Herodes> with <sun> his <autos> men of war <strateuma> Re 12:7 And <kai> there was <ginomai> war <polemos> in <en> heaven <ouranos>: I repeated the search, and your right, the software made a goof. Sorry. Second time it ran OK. Thanks for bringing this up. Your right a different word, different root even.
Dave writes: The Chief Archon – if you must call him a ‘sar’ – then he is the ‘sar’ of Gen 1:1 earth – all physical cosmos- the Commander and Chief of all Archon
Dave writes" I am speaking to the whole – the totality – all of Egypt You respond about the few who lived near the court and the slaves
So why didn't you say this before? So the plagues only affected lower Egypt, I don't suspect the first born males in Upper Egypt would have died, have you proof they did? This doesn't spoil my points, you only seeking a diversion.
Dave writes: " I see – now the Bane elohiym = Michael and Jesus as well as satan You are struggling to defend a false doctrine
So if you can't see Michael as Jesus, fine.
Answer the question, is Jesus a sar or not? If Jesus is a sar we have two sar of saraph on the pole, for salvation over the serpent biting Israel, one called saraph satan the other saraph Yahsua. The manner of look of faith saves you.
Why did Jesus say I have come to drive out the sar of earth?
Dave writes: "Jesus had to die – because he had to suffer everything every mortal man suffers
No, that's not what the Bible says, its says life for life... nothing to do with suffering... you make the death of Jesus trivial. You have to swap eternal life for eternal life. Not something even ordinary humans have or can do. Not even angels can do this, only an eternal Being immortal Being can do this.
Where does ogoing living come from? From a divine source. Only GOD is divine and immortal.
Dave: "Gnostic / Jewish – we are already created eternal – some loose there immortality in the end
Care to unpack your statement?
If we already immortal how can this be? Not possible. Neither are we eternal. The only eternal part in our dust is the Holy Spirit who administrates the Fathers power of ongoing life in us. Without God's continual presence we are nothing. Can you lose a relationship with GOD? Sure you can?
Dave: "Jesus death was designed in Gen 1:3 – when the Light pushed the Chohsek into its own realm Care to unpack your statement?
Dave writes: The Chief Archon – if you must call him a ‘sar’ – then he is the ‘sar’ of Gen 1:1 earth – all physical cosmos- the Commander and Chief of all Archon
Gen:1:2 the gap...
Dave: "Jesus death was designed in Gen 1:3 – when the Light pushed the Chohsek into its own realm
The chief archon sar angel sinned in Gen 1:1 some time ago, than "Chohsek into its own realm", so we have a Gen 1:2 gap...
So this chief archon and his 200 so caled other angels who sinned with him, is this not a religion opposing GOD, a war in heaven? No humans around yet....
Yet you have this to make the chaos filled, a design of the Father, to make the contest... why?
Why can't people just tov all the time, like the way you have two trees in the Garden as you say? What's the test for? Obviously sinning was already running in God's universes.
That means archons were opposing GOD, otherwise its not a test. Can you explain that?
You say God is weak? Is love a strong force or a weak force Dave, when a tov person sins doing ra? What options do you have if all you are is tov? Please explain?
Dave: "The Contest is between two different paradigms - Gen 3:15 – Eve’s seed and satan’s seed – Man and archon – NOT archon against GOD
Really? why create two trees in Garden than? Your saying the choice is Eve/Archon or Man/Archon.
Where's God in this picture?
Why was there a war in heaven over God and Archons, a few seconds as you say? No humans around. No other angels fell into sinning?
You have archons with their sin approved by the Father as a design test for what? No humans around than.
Answer this one.
How can you have a Father allow a mistake in tov to begin with? That's like saying we need to invent smoking so we can test nonsmokers? Why?
Dave: WHY – these ‘other gods’ and their religions
Gnostic answer – by the Will of the Father – wanting to reveal His glory to all creation – allowed the sum of all chaos to come about –
The Father designed other religions created by the Chief Archons, (you say the evil doesn't create? ) what this than? What's the first command?
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods "elohiym" before me.
You have said cherubs are powers like elohiym.
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no Chief Archon"elohiym" before me.
How is this a design element by the Father? It's not, Your Gnostic writings are deceiving you.
No mention of humans here. Humans are not elohiym, made a little lower than elohiym, but not elohiym.
This command come directly pointed at cherub and Chief Archon does it not?
Dave: "God could have introduced Christ to Adam and Eve – but didn’t But that would have limited the ‘sum of all chaos’
Really? When did Jesus show up to Israel then Dave?
If Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world, He had to show up to Adam and Eve, otherwise it not from foundation of the world?
Eve has a first born, I have "YHWH" for sacrifice. She was expecting a Saviour than...The same Divine Being who made the clothes and killed an animal to do so.
Dave: '"Why did it take so long for the Messiah to appear - It would have limited the ‘sum of all chaos’
Really? Who's this than?
Ex 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an Angel "malak" MESSENGER before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. 22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries
Name a Messenger of YHWH who's Name is in the Father, and forgives Sins?
Jesus would be that messenger. Jesus also looked like a saraph with coverings of the Holy Spirit, ie an angel.
Dave: "Repentance from what? Salvation from what – ‘the sum of all chaos’
The more I write to you, the further you are from Hebrew scripture... you label me Catholic, which is false. I am not Catholic whatever that word means.
So salvation is only about rescue from ra. But ra is created by the Father? How is it a rescue? It's not. You also have the sin aspect also designed by the Father.... so salvation is just rescue from ra?
I have Jesus rescuing us from a Chief sinner, who sins continually causing ra. I have a war over a Being who wants to rule with sinning over me. Sin is a relationship to GOD gone wrong.
You don't agree with this idea.
Dave: "Adam was created immortal and a vegan After Eve’s sin – man was limited to a 1000 yr life span and our ‘bright natures’ were suppressed
If man was immortal how can bright natures be suppressed after sin, obviosly man is not immortal. Only a strong relationship to GOD makes us have ongoing life. A weak relationship causes us to daily dying die.
Dave: "For centuries – the Catholic Church has hidden the reality of the archon - ‘other gods’ We acknowledge Beings who are sinning, not designed that way by the Father, but because they are relationships to GOD gone wrong.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Mar 21, 2020 4:34:27 GMT -5
All I have is scripture – either you don’t read it – or you don’t retain what you read
Exo 10:13 And Moses stretched forth his rod over the land of Egypt, Exo 10:14 And the locusts went up over all the land of Egypt, Exo 10:19 And Jehovah turned an exceeding strong west wind, which took up the locusts, and drove them into the Red Sea; there remained not one locust in all the border of Egypt. Exo 10:22 And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days; Exo 11:5 and all the first-born in the land of Egypt shall die, Exo 11:6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there hath not been, nor shall be any more.
All the land of Egypt in all the border of Egypt
DUH – The “Light of God” pushed the darkness away into it’s own realm choshek
TWIST – you do not comprehend my words. Are you so one-dimensional that you cannot think past your Catholic doctrine The Chief Archon is the Beast – scripture tells us that his home is the choshek There were no humans yet in Gen 1:2 The 200 represent the bane elohiym of Gen 6
Because we are animal – and the biological desire for procreation and self-preservation = the yester ra within us. Eve proved it, Adam proved it, Cain proved it, and we prove it
NEVER – I say God is omnipotent and absolute You are the one that believes Catholic doctrine that God is unable to manage His own creation. Your free will satan has corrupted everything.
TWIST
Gen 3:15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Does this say – between man and archon – or does it say between God and archon Either you do not understand English or the Hebrew – or you simple refuse to Believe God’s Word when it conflicts with your Catholic satan doctrine
Where is God in my pitcure - the creator / the one who established - the paradigym between man and archon
Again – so one dimensional Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world – Gen 1:3 Adan and Eve – three chapters later
Only Catholic accept the doctrine that satan is a free willing angel that is able to alter God’s plan – in fact God is unable to manage a full 1/3rd of all His angels and none of His physical creation Catholic God weak – Catholic satan powerful
Only Catholic doctrine suggest – that all of God’s creation is only about us and this planet Only Catholic doctrine embraces a Human Sacrifice for sin Only Catholic doctrine teach that we are not eternal beings
You say I am far from Hebrew scripture - yet my views are extremely Jewish - consistant with Judaism - completely consistant with the Kabbalah
Until you met be you had no idea of what Jews thought - you are a product of a Catholic culture - call it Prodestant if you want to but the doctrine reamins the same - call is yet something different (SDA) yet the doctrine you defend is 100% Catholic and Roman in origin
Man = Soul+Mind-Body Adam and Eve were created immortal After Eve - Mind-Body became mortal Soul is eternal – from God we came and to God we return We pre-existed our physical birth – now we are trapped within Mind-Body having a physical experience – after Mind-Body dies – our souls return to God
So what does this have anything to do with God limiting our abilities – or limit God from gifting abilities?
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Post by Dave on Mar 21, 2020 9:59:49 GMT -5
What a great example of how you just twist my statements into something totally unrelated
Time line Adam and Even sinned 7 generation later – Noah served as a Christ How long was it from the flood to Jesus? 3000 Jewish calendar years Now that Jesus came once – how long is it until His 2nd Coming? – at least another 2000 Jewish calendar years
But your right – Christ came AS THE MESSIAH way back in Exodus And now we are living the millennial peace with Christ as King
So the Jesus of the agl must be another Messiah or an imposter This is your logic
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2020 16:15:26 GMT -5
Ex 10:13 over the land <'erets> of Egypt <Mitsrayim>, and the LORD <Y@hovah> brought <nahag> an east <qadiym> wind <ruwach> upon the land <'erets> all that day <yowm>, 14 And the locusts <'arbeh> went up <`alah> over all the land <'erets> of Egypt <Mitsrayim>, and rested <nuwach> in all the coasts <g@buwl> of Egypt <Mitsrayim>: Ex 10:15 For they covered <kacah> the face <`ayin> of the whole earth <'erets>, so that the land <'erets>
I note the word "all" is not in the Hebrew, also "erets" is both earth and land...?? Ex 10:19 in all the coasts <g@buwl> of Egypt <Mitsrayim>.
I note the word "all" is not in the Hebrew, gabuwl means what? coasts or borders?
None of the verses you supplied have the Hebrew word meaning "all" it is supplied by translators.
Dave writes: "The Chief Archon is the Beast – scripture tells us that his home is the choshek There were no humans yet in Gen 1:2
Other clones of the Chief Archon arrive in Genesis 6.... OK
SO how is this a war in heaven? A few seconds as you say, one angel sins, the other angels have different functions and cannot sin, because they are designed to be robots to serve, having no free will.
The Father designed this angel differently and hence sinned, and so the war in heaven was brief.
Why create humans at all to experience this ra, the Father designed?
For what purpose, the Father is not challenged, The other angels are not in sin, and are not designed to be in sin anyhow, so there is no conflict in the Father at all, He does as He likes?
so why create a world full of ra, just because He wants to? to fill up the sum of chaos?
What? Deliberately create evil because the Father can, and does, and expect Humans to obey because they have to?
Your model is silly and not based on love, rather its a model based on a selfish Father, after all all things come from God don't they, including self? Take your angels as functionally designed to serve? Are all the other creatures also functionally designed to serve and do good like robots? Is this love? No, not even close.
Its a force machinery like response, its not even relationship, because relationship implies you have freedoms to choose. I would call it programmed instinct, like the bird and animals and plants, all programmed to obey their DNA functions. Were the humans the only creatures ever to have this so called free will? Why be the first? Why not just have a eternal universe of instinct programmed creatures.... is this love? No
I suppose your GOD is not based on love, but rather all alone, showing functions with either a Spirit (a different expression of the Father) or the Son, (a different expression of the Father), so you have really one Being, all alone?
My GOD is not like that, mine is three personalities, independently unique, and loving each other as one.
Hence GOD is love. God is light. Light is a family of energies all different, yet also all similar.
Your GOD is more a single lazer beam, all alone. No love their at all, because even with angels their is no community sharing of love, its just DNA encoded functional response. Rob: Why can't people just tov all the time,
Dave: Because we are animal – and the biological desire for procreation and self-preservation = the yester ra within us.
Rob: Didn't GOD make us all tov before Adam sinned?
Your answer happened after sin, did it not? Or are you saying man was made before He sinned with biological ra?
Dave: "NEVER – I say God is omnipotent and absolute You are the one that believes Catholic doctrine that God is unable to manage His own creation. Your free will satan has corrupted everything. Rob: So GOD does not create freewill among his angels, he cannot afford to have the risk of love.
So your universe of GOD (one Being) with angels (no free will) no love is there.
It's too much risk to have love, in cause a relationship fails to choose not love.
SO you have a creation without love in it?
Does love have risk or not Dave? Is GOD love? Than He cannot be all alone. But your model of God and His angels excludes love entirely?
Dave: "Where is God in my pitcure - the creator / the one who established - the paradigym between man and archon
You say I twist things?
Jos 24:15 ¶ And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
There is mention of archons here, but totally different to you model.
Jos 24:15 ¶ And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD,
(GOD doesn't design ra)
choose you this day whom ye will serve;
Ra gods or an TOV GOD
whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell:
Easy explained, these gods are archon gods, coming from Beings who oppose GOD, otherwise its not a choice here, to choose one god or the other god.
but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
This verse explains two different elohiym powers, or gods, Your model has both ra and tov on the same side as the Father. Thus you cannot make a choice between a Father who designed evil to begin with.
Dave: "Again – so one dimensional Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world – Gen 1:3
I would say it was Jesus who made the covering of clothes for Adam and Eve, after they sinned. It was this lost covering Jesus himself would get back.... The divine presence around them was lost, shrank, causing their nakedness. Satan caused mischief to the Holy Spirit, and Jesus would fight to get this lost covering restored.
Dave: " Only Catholic accept the doctrine that satan is a free willing angel that is able to alter God’s plan – in fact God is unable to manage a full 1/3rd of all His angels and none of His physical creation Catholic God weak – Catholic satan powerful
SO your one and only God doesn't create with love, because He alone cannot love. Love is too big a risk, so all creatures have this DNA programmed function to serve Him.
No love in heaven at all. In fact your model has no love anywhere in the world of angels and a single Being. Love is relational, your God is all alone, therefore not love.
Dave: "Adam and Eve were created immortal After Eve - Mind-Body became mortal
How can something immortal become mortal? I thought only God is immortal?
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Dave: "What a great example of how you just twist my statements into something totally unrelated
Sorry you feel that way... not meaning to offend.
Jesus came to Adam and Eve after they sinned, to rescue them, promise to do all things to get back that lost covering of GOD they lost. Isn't Jesus the same Messiah in the OT and the NT, only that He died for sinners and rose from the dead, as a human divine Being in the NT?
So let's try a different approach Dave....
Love
Do you have a single Being (Father) able to love angels, and angels love Him? Not possible with functional responding is it? Let's go back to a universe when the chief archon never even existed... nor mankind ever existed....
You have a single divine Being, expressing itself as male Son or female spirit. But its a single divine Being. Correct?
Angels have program design to serve one Being. How is this love?
Love only occurs between personalities in the same creature kind. Male dog loves female dog. Male sparrow loves the female sparrow. A dog does not love the sparrow, nor a sparrow the dog.
Sometimes we see love shared across kinds, but it's uncommon.
Your God all alone, would be lonely? no love possible.
Angels with no free will, would be programmed to respond. No talking about stuff freely... no love...
Does not love have emotional irrational things in it? Or is love predictable? Does love laugh and cry? Or is love purely a program we could write on a computer? Does love have risk? Answer these questions, not mentioning ra or humans or archons.
Mention only God and His angels...
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Mar 21, 2020 19:10:15 GMT -5
1- the HS made the Chief Archon – that is why he was different 2- when he woke alone – he thought he was the first – when a voice came from above him saying – you are mistaken 3- the HS then hid the Chief Archon in the darkness – as God introduced the Light
How long did it last? 1- who knows 2- described in Jer 4 3- it was no contest – the thought of it being a long drug out ongoing battel with tanks, planes, blood, and death is ridicules – God said, Michael acted, and the archon no longer found its home in heaven 4 - the archon were ejected to earth – this happened in Gen 1:3 – long before planet earth formed in Gen 1:9 = the archon were ejected into earth of Gen 1:1 – which is all physical creation – all the cosmos 5- NOW – there is no longer a war in heaven – that aeon / age is over 6- Now – the war / contest is being played out in physical creation – in the cosmos – here on planet earth
You wish – this is absolutely the Gnostic message We have the ability to choose – man is the creature that can choose Choose the gods on the other side of the flood were bane elohiym and Nephlin – both my archon Choose the gods of the Amorites – which are the ‘other gods’ Archon and Rephiem – both my archon OR choose the Creator What is so complicated about this?
Angles serve God Archon serve God What is stopping you from choosing the creator in all of this Seriously – what dose any of this do with you and your Free Will choice?
If Eve was created 100% tov – then how could she sin? She had to have the choice available in order to choose - DUH
I thought only God is immortal? – show me a scripture that says angels have a limited life span
Yep – the angels were created to serve and praise – all tov just like you wish it to be But as you say And this is why the Jews and the Kabbalah say – why God made man and gave him the Free Will ability to choose God Here you go with your assumptions He loves us enough to give us the choice – then he gave us the Torah – and followed up with Jesus Christ – and one day He will return for all His faithful – choice do with it what you will
Adam and Eve were given to ability to choose or Eve could not have choose incorrectly
I called it yester ra - Rob: I would call it programmed instinct, – just vocabulary
1- Scripture clearly says God uses ra as a tool
Isa 14:24 Jehovah of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely, as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
Proverbs 19:21 (ESV) Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand.
Pro 16:4 Jehovah hath made everything for its own end; Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
2- Humans to obey because they have to? – This is the point of God’s love – Free will - you do not have to! Choose what you will
Here is a perceived problem with your one dimensional approach You anthropomorphize the elohiym – you insist that must act like humans
Give me one verse where is says Jesus died to save the angels? Because your angels must behave just like men and therefore require redemption Man requires redemption because of incorrect Free Will choices Do the angels that praise God require redemption – NO Does scripture say that redemption is offered to the archon – NO Redemption is offered only to man – because we are the beings that are able to choose it
And as for WHY God does things
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah.
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