Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 13:27:10 GMT -5
Greetings Dave. Some interesting thoughts here:
I watched your video on Chuck Missler, very interesting.
You didn't watch mine on the Kabbalah:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEoWdxfwIqg
6 minutes only
Walter Veith, from Morals and Dogma, the true name of Satan Kabbalists say is Yahweh (GOD) reversed.
One thing Chuck said was the "void and darkness" happens always after judgement. And he is right. In Jerimiah's time, its the end of the city because the people are unfaithful. In the second coming of Jesus, its the end of earth as we know it, because the earth is unfaithful.
So while he suggests but doesn't say this, the so called gap, is the judgement on fallen angels, causing the earth to be "void and in darkness".
I would not call this a "gap" as in time. Time didn't exist before "day one". Hence this thing about angels becoming demons happened before "time started".
You say before Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2, a "gap in the story" ? yes, but not a "Gap in time".
Dave: "You confuse Satanic Churches with the Jewish Kabbalah
Have you read any of the satanic bible?
Rob: "No
Dave: "I have my own Zohar, have you read it?
Rob: "No
Quote: "BURN the kabbalah books that you have NOW. (see previous post)
Dave: "
(1)Satan is actually a good angel whose job is to help us to grow.
(2) Satan became an opponent to make it difficult for us to connect...
(3)The first step ... is recognition of the opponent within.
(4) It is Satan’s job to hide.
Rob: "No. No. No. No.
We are very different you and I Dave on the so called Chief Archon.
1)Any angel that sinned is not or ever any good.
Any angel wanting to be like our Father is proud, that totally evil.
2) Chief Archon is our opponent because he hates wanting human jury members to say that the Father is good and the Chief Archon is a liar, cheat and deceiver.
3) NO. Fight the good fight of support. Who do we support? GOD. Jesus. not some wicked sinful opponent who hates us, because he hates God. Jesus says the devil fell like lightning from heaven, so do not worry about him. Worry that Jesus has your name written in the palms of His hands.
4) The opponent only hides because he is a deceiver and liar. Also the Holy Spirit does not want an unfair contest, the Father also must hide. Miracles from both sides are limited for a reason.
Dave: "OH – the Accuser didn’t obey? Didn’t do what he was instructed? I do see it.
Would you agree that nothing exists if GOD didn't exist. No matter. No time. No chief archon. Nothing. So how do you make evil exist, if it is opposed to your nature? Simple. You make it virtual. You use a medium.
Magnifying glasses make images that appear larger, but do not make the literal object larger. Its an illusion. It's done inside a medium, actually through the clever use of two different media. This is why we have duality.
So if I want my image to become larger, I have to ask the Being holding the medium, and thus creating the illusion of the image, I have to ask permission, can you move the medium move this way? The chief archon cannot and does not move the medium affect by himself. He can't because the medium is formed outside of matter, and the chief archon is matter. Only divinity can move the divinity that causes the medium affect, hence you need permission.
When Adam and sinned, did they need permission to fall, or miss?
Who is the first Being who break relationship with? The divinity that upholds the medium, the Holy Spirit.
Ro 2:15 their conscience also bearing witness,
The Holy Spirit would have directly spoken to Eve, are you sure you want me to do this for you? There is another relationship wanting to rule over Eve:
Ge 3:1 ¶ Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Both plants and animals would have also conversed with Eve, but this one day, an animal spoken a hint of doubt about GOD...
So since GOD is the only one who upholds all things, including the existence of angels, both unfallen ones and fallen ones, we see this in the way scripture writes when more evil comes. As Clarke says when GOD moves out, Satan moves in.
Dave: "Which is it – is the Holy Spirit is involved with RA or not?
spiritualsprings.org/ss-759.htm
The blackest darkness is where Satan has a claim on you. The covered darkness is where Satan has no claim on you. You are saved by GOD. What's the difference in these mathematical science pictures? The distance from you to the source. In other words how far or close you are to GOD. In other words salvation is based sorely on relationship.
If I want to walk closer to GOD, do I need permission to do so? In other words, can I walk towards GOD on my own, using my own human free will, in my own human powers of choice?
When you choose to walk towards GOD, the Holy Spirit has to carry you there. The medium changes so you don't perish experiencing GOD more. We cannot do anything on our own.
In a similar way if Satan wants to walk far from GOD, can he do this on his own? no, the Holy Spirit also has to carry him there. If you walked away from GOD totally, you would cease to exist, for GOD upholds everything, including matter.
What is blackest darkness? The absence of God's light.
Science did experiments to prove light follows you. In a room many miles away from light, the people still saw after 3 weeks down there, the light followed them.
This does not make Satan, a sinful angel, good. The only reason sin was not destroyed immediately when it came to be, is because it had free will. and to destroy it immediately would have caused fear in the other free will creatures. It was the first time ever, such a condition of missing existed before. Nothing good about it.
If a creature moves away from light, there is nothing functional about this relationship.
Shalom my friend
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 15, 2019 0:39:46 GMT -5
Ah the Christian commandment to go forth and be stupid
Is the Zohar Kabbalah? I had always understood it as Rabbinic Commentary
Maybe you should burn your copy of Adam Clark – it is not Canon
I worked with a guy named Jesus. Actually it was Jesus Jr because dad was Jesus Sr. For me, the Veith video is not academic survey of the subject – it is not a study – it is a sermon that is biased and has an agenda
If I have to burn my Zohar – how is it Ok for your guy to read even more damning text? Then misrepresent it in a sermon. He can read it – I can’t. He can quote it in a sermon, but I cannot even read it. How can anyone have the authority to defend themselves from what they know not!
How can a Christian stand and fight the battle of Eph 6 ignorant?
And this is why most Christians loose
How many ignorant Christians celebrate the birth of Tammuz on Dec 25th?
How many ignorant Christians put tress in their houses?
How many ignorant Christians celebrate Ishtar with Ishtar eggs and ham?
Everyone and abomination to the lord in the ahl
Does your church do these things? – or does Paul’s New Covenant say its OK
Every Bible study that I have been near emphasis a well-rounded education
Study the Bible – Yes, Church History – Yes. The writings of the church fathers – Yes.
How about a study of Papal Decrees – Yes. How about testimonials of mission works – Yes.
How about a book on angels by Billy Graham – yes
But, do not know what the Jewish Rabbis discussed before Jesus was born – do not understand Jewish cosmology – only see the OT as Rome presents it – whatever you do don’t become Jewish minded – Jesus was Jew – don’t be like him – this is the message church censorship say to me!
Jesus was 100% Jewish – why don’t Christian and Jews agree on anything, when it comes to the ahl?
Explain to me this Christendom commandment to be stupid.
If you knew RA was real and in your face – you would turn to TOV
Why doesn’t Christendom want us to know about the enemy?
Eph 6 says it is our biggest challenge as a Christian.
If it is kabbalah it has nothing to do with Jesus – it was written 500 years before Jesus
It is about using powers for unseen spirits – the spirit that govern nature – and how to direct energies, theirs and ours, to achieve goals.
White Witchcraft Rope Magic – women in a circle, all focused on the same thought / wish, as they stare at a flame. Each of their minds adds power to the focus. If the wish comes true – they did it with their own minds power. No mention of satan, spirits, or anything except power of self.
If it is the Satanic Church – it has nothing to do with theology – they are atheist
If you read them you will see the reason they have backwards church rituals – is to deliberately blaspheme the church they MOCK. Black Mass is not dedicated to satan or any spirit –
If it is freemasonry, it has a different agenda, which is all about the Archon and the 13 Families – David Ike stuff – do you know the Freemason agenda – their goal? – Tell me
Your guy Veith quotes Albert Pike as kabbalist – this isn’t right!
It’s like saying your neighborhood bully is a Catholic Cardinal
Albert Pikes 1872 letter is very compelling evidence that we are pawns in a bigger game
Even if it is a fake – it found its way to the museum before WWII
Albert Pike’s 1872 letter says that the Cabal must bring about 3 world wars
One war to destroy Europe’s monarchs. A second war of fascism to force the Jews back to Israel. And a 3rd war between religions. WWIII is to be a religious war and it is to be so bad that the globe will give up religion for good. – He wrote this in 1872
Jimmy Page paid a million dollars for an $80,000 dollar apartment in London. He had to have it because Allister Crowley had once lived there. The first night he was alone in the apartment – he picked up his guitar and wrote Stairway to Heaven – the biggest Rock-n-Roll selling song to this day. He said it came to him in an inspiration and only took about 20 minutes. This is also the song everyone plays backways and it says – satan is lord – several times. - I’ve done it myself.
This is all the work of the Archon in our realm – I am all over this stuff
Yes we are different – you think angels can change God’s plan – or alter God’s plan
I do not believe this to be possible in no shape or form
I do believe this – God created the TOV and the RA – you are the one trying to explain away the creation of RA. Yet, scripture tells us over and over – nothing was made that wasn’t made by Him – For the life of me I do not understand why Christians argue this.
Either God made everything or there is a second creator! Christians cannot have it both ways.
God created everything except RA – and some angel created the RA within himself and then spread it to other angels – again Christian BS – Gnostics are not confused about this
You have made the point earlier that the Holy Spirit is not involved – is She or isn’t she?
Gnostic are not confused on this
The Gap is not before day one – it happened during day one – unless you are saying Gen 1:1 happened before day one?
No Angel ever became a demon – is this some type of angelic evolution theory
Do little angels grow up to be archangels? God doesn’t make beings and they reproduce after their own kind – they can change species?
Grandma will never get her angel wings in heaven either – what a bunch of Christian Mythology
No – because Adam has Free Will to choose – I have never said anything different
Are Adam and Eve angels? Were the angels created from dust? Two different beings from two entirely different realities – yet – you force them to behave and act the same – curious?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 13:44:46 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
Your right about Walter Veith, I also thought it strange that a Catholic, atheist and than SDA, than agnostic, would publish Morals and Dogma to the world in sermons, but he does...Personally I would have never done this, read that stuff, but maybe GOD raised him for that reason...I don't know...but I see your point...so keep your Zohar if it helps you... and read it...
The rest of your discussion fits into a single theme, we have difference on...
and very little Scripture exists to rest out options on...very little is spoken about angels, and their origin and their bodies and their free will, really we speak of things that Bible does not really explain in clear details...
But I will explore your view for a moment:
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(KJV)
What's the difference to you, between the words "GOD forms light"
"God creates darkness" and its simile "God creates ra".
"Ra is a opposite to to towb" what Jeff terms "function and dysfunction".
What does "bara" mean to you?
Notice "God does not create light" because GOD is light. God only creates darkness or ra.
The key to understanding "Ra" is to understand what "Ra" means, and how "ra" comes over humans for example in their free will. Then you have to make assumptions if angels also have free will and can also experience "ra".
If you don't assume this, than you saying angels are created already with ra, something scripture does not say.
Technically scripture does not clearly say what "sin" is either. That's why Jews don't get "sinning" at all. SO its no wonder we ponder confusion.
Scripture defines "sin" as missing. The question becomes what are we missing?
Notice this "bara" term is also used for the second birth process in humans...
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Such a state is never described in fallen angels. Why not? Because GOD sees their fall as no excuse. They have seen GOD for eternity but chose "ra" and "sin" they missed "Relationship with GOD".
In my way of explaining all this, I use three Hebrew words:
"ra", "chata" and for relationship ..."ruwach"... The Holy Spirit lives inside of living things and makes them living, the divinity "marries" the matter, and gives us free will choice to choose relationship with divinity or not.
Notice the second birth is exactly the same as the first birth, using the same three Hebrew words, only the difference is the second birth takes the "ra" away, slowly, our sins, our propensities, our carnal nature of self.
When GOD made the universe of earth, He placed two trees
A tree of living
A tree of function and dysfunction.
God didn't make a tree of evil only. So as Clarke and Einstein suggest, as you walk away from GOD in relationship, the evil comes in. It does not make GOD evil, even though GOD upholds the possibility of people to choose this.
You didn't comment on the medium affect how virtual reality works. If a programmer creates a program for people to do dysfunction, and people play with the program, that does not mean the programmer is evil, just because the program allows evil to be seen.
If an inventor invents a machine that fires bullets, does not mean the inventor is evil because other people use the machine to kill people.
And if people choose to walk away from GOD, and thus experience this world of dysfunction, does not mean GOD is evil, because GOD created the possibility for people to experience this if they wanted to.
The laser beam is a great invention, but I notice kids now use this invention to shine light (a simile of GOD) into the eyes of pilots and bring planes down to crash them...funny evil... perhaps...but its not GOD's fault...the kids choose to do this...
When we all go to heaven, and GOD creates the new earth, will it arise from chaos and dysfunction, and move towards bliss and perfect function? yes. not even shadows will exist on the ground, for the light of the earth increases much more, and GOD is light...so many things we are used to will disappear forever... "ra" will be no more... "sin" will cease to exist... and the chief archon who asked all this "Ra" to come into being, will also cease to exist...
Are you saying "ra" is a part of GOD... than sin is a part of GOD too. And if all are saved, no need to witness to anybody, because we are all saved...your also suggesting "Self" is a part of GOD too? that "satan" as a term does not exist, its just a force to compel us to love GOD more? That the archons are a part of GOD... so I suppose the archons lives forever and ever, forcing the humans ever more to love GOD more and more? If they have some end, why is that? Why does GOD begin and end things? Why have a recreation of earth at all? Why not just continue as it is forever and ever, after all we are experiencing GOD, and love, and archons, so why a contest? What does a contest mean? Why a contest anyway?
I need you to clearly and carefully define your viewpoint. I will not attack it, but rather try to understand it.
Your concept of the Father seems very different to mine. My Father is always loving, and kind and does no missing to any creature.
We have tried to define "ruwach" and I have listened to video where is seems the "soul" lives forever...
We have tried to define "ra", and now it seems the "Ra" is a part of GOD and remains always a part of GOD...so why do you have the archons coming to a final end?
OK let's get you to define "chata"... what does "sin" mean to you. Where does "sin" come from? What does salvation mean to you? Saved from what? Saved from sin? What does sin have to do with GOD? What does sin have to do with the archon?
What does sin have to do with angels? Can angels sin? Can GOD sin?
Enjoy pondering the confusion. I am enjoying delving into things I do not delve into this deeply. Something's we should leave alone. As that Rabbi says if there is an apparent contradiction in Scripture it implies a hidden discovery. Maybe we should, our puny minds to ponder...
Shalom
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 15, 2019 15:59:15 GMT -5
Not meaning to be negative – who am I to judge – he just doesn’t do it for me. I love learning with Chuck Missler and almost took his class as a family. Currently, I am moved by Michael Rood. Are they the best or most right? I do not know, but they speak to me.
YES! – through the Holy Spirit Ra was created – why the Holy Spirit?
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man: -(Plausible deniability)
In Job – God ordered the Hit – satan the hitman
We are instructed not to say God does evil – he just created it
Gnostics say he didn’t even create it – the Holy Spirit did
TOV – order – negentropy – Christ – Salvation
Ra – chaos – entropy – Archon - damnation
I am with Jeff Brenner – fatten – as in make yourselves fat
Why? – IMO – something did not come from nothing
Before the mc2 was the E – that E is everything inside of one singularity
That E - exploded – enlarged – expanded - ‘fatten’ into the mc2
If you restrict the word usage to only ‘engineered’ the question remains out of what substrate did he engineer. For me – engineered – only involves the planning state not the construction – Fattened works best for my cosmology
Correct – our Souls came from heaven – we need to fatten what is already there – to reconnect to the Holy Spirit
Explain to me why you have to make assumptions?
If I train my dog to sit – will my cat behave the same way?
Angels were made of a different substance in a different reality than man – why must they behave the same? They are not the same – not even close.
OH – they have no excuse – because they were once in Gods presence
So were we – before birth and in the Womb – what is our excuse? - we forgot!
I will repeat – in the beginning God created everything – period – nothing was made that was not made by him!
Your concept of God is the Feel Good version where God is only mercy and can do no RA
Yet he played Pharoah and Job like fiddles – sent the angel of death – commanded Israel to kill every last man, woman, child, baby, pet, and livestock of 7 tribes of Canaan. Baptist say he loves us so much he is sending most of us to hell.
Christians all say – this isn’t evil – this is 'Justice'
Maybe this is my new concept – RA = justice – movement toward justice
TOV and RA now = Salvation and Justice – the Chief Archon is the Chief Judge (Archon = judge is a correct translation) – Then the Chief Judge and his judges test creation
Deu 13:3 Jehovah your God proveth you, to know whether ye love Jehovah your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
It is what they were made for.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
After man judges satan the angelic overseer – he is cast into the fire – The Chief Archon judge and his judges Archon are already there
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 1:05:22 GMT -5
I can accept what your saying Dave, because that is how you see it, so let me summarize what your saying:
You say the Holy Spirit created Ra.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD (YHWH) do all these things. (KJV) yet this verse says YHWH creates ra, not the Holy Spirit?
You also say GOD created all things, including the archons, the chief archons and ra.
Dave: "Explain to me why you have to make assumptions?
Rob: "Because Scripture does talk about cherub having free will, it is assumed.
Scripture doesn't talk about archons as a separate Being, as you claim. The word is a Greek term meaning "prince", the Hebrew word also means "prince". Therefore by assumption and by association of other scriptures, the archons are fancy terms to describe angels; but you do not agree with this idea.
When Jesus says I have come to judge the Archon of Earth, Jesus is speaking of removing the prince claim of a fallen angel over the earth as his kingdom.
But you say the Archon is a special Being in some eternity past.
Have a look at this verse:
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
This verse has both the phrase "prince of the air" as well as the Holy Spirit who worketh the children of disobedience. Your saying it both the Holy Spirit and the chief Archon, or Devil, who makes children of disobedience... but scripture is not saying that... if you choose Satan, the prince of the air, He causes a character change in those who follow him, and the Holy Spirit functioning as a medium for ra, allows this life style to become as the followers of Satan want.
Notice Adam Clarke also agrees with me on this:
The prince of the power of the air] Satan is termed prince of the power of the air, because the air is supposed to be a region in which malicious spirits dwell, all of whom are under the direction and influence of Satan, their chief.
The spirit that now worketh] tou nun energountov The operations of the prince of the aerial powers are not confined to that region; he has another sphere of action, viz. the wicked heart of man, and in this he works with energy. He seldom inspires indifference to religion; the subjects in whom he works are either determinate opposers of true religion, or they are systematic and energetic transgressors of God's laws.
Children of disobedience] Perhaps a Hebraism for disobedient children; but, taken as it stands here, it is a strong expression, in which disobedience, h apeiyeia, appears to be personified, and wicked men exhibited as her children; the prince of the power of the air being their father, while disobedience is their mother. Thus they are emphatically, what our Lord calls them, Mt 13:38, children of the wicked one; for they show themselves to be of their father the devil, because they will do his works, Joh 8:44. Some think that by children of disobedience the apostle means particularly the disobedient, unbelieving, refractory, and persecuting Jews; but I rather think he speaks this generally, and refers to the Jews in the following verse.
Dave: " OH – they have no excuse – because they were once in Gods presence
So were we – before birth and in the Womb – what is our excuse? - we forgot!
Please explain? Humans inherit corrupted DNA, and live in a fallen world. When Jesus came as a human, he came in the same form we have ...fallen....
The only male human who has no excuse for sin, was Adam, he lived in a perfect world. He was told about the archon, but tricked or deceived...
Rob: Quote" Why a contest anyway?
Dave Quote: "Deu 13:3 Jehovah your God proveth you, to know whether ye love Jehovah your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Rob: That is a strange answer. So you saying my Dad called me abusive nicknames just so I would love my Dad more? That's silly...This is not a Father of love, is it? if you have to be tried, bitten by snakes and enslaved with hard work.
My answer from Scripture is easier to view: We are tried by Satan, not by the Father. The Devil hates us because our support for GOD shows we love GOD. When Israel walked with GOD, did they really love GOD or did they walk in "self". People who walk in "Self" doing as they please, are actually following Satan, and if they don't acknowledge Satan as a personal ruler, than they are "satan" in a Hebrew sense, a person who opposes GOD, and thus hates GOD.
When the 12 spies went out and came back, how many truly supported GOD and loved GOD? Only 2 out of 12. Self is carnal power as a propensity from the DNA, so we become children of the Devil from birth, unless our parents prayer a Narazite vow, and the Holy Spirit empowers us from birth, with a salvation experience before we are even born.
I love fruit trees even trees growing in a fallen world. Sometimes hard love requires me in a fallen world to prune the branches to make the tree fruit. If their was no dysfunction in this world, I would never have to prune my trees.
You seem to be making the mistake that the Hebrew word "ra" means "morally evil" ?
God is not morally evil, as well as morally good. The word "Ra" means as Jeff Benner says correctly, dysfunctional.
Before the flood the children of men were continually dysfunctional. Scripture does not record them doing transgressions. However they did kill and murder and do bad things... but no Hebrew word is used to describe this..
You seem to be saying the Holy Spirit is an accessory to the crimes of evil?
If a woman gives a knife of her husband and the husband kills their children, the woman is also guilty of manslaughter in our court system. She is an accessory to the crime.
But the Hebrew word "ruwach" does not specially refer to divine Being...The Hebrew term actually means "wind". Not ordinary wind, but divine wind, and in some places seems like ordinary wind.
There is one verse where it says the "wind" is created. By whom?
Other verses the "wisdom" was called forth? By whom?
Since is light, light has duality, therefore by assumption of association, members of GOD must also have duality, if they want to.
The Shadday can function as "wind". But wind is a media where power is carried by the media, in a certain way, which we call a medium affect.
I have explained this before to you about the magnifying glass making virtual images inside the medium. The lens does not make the image larger, it just appears larger because of natural properties of light entering different media.
The affect is not caused by the Holy Spirit (the glass and air), nor by the light (the Father and Son) , but by YOU holding the lens in a certain distance from your eye. This is a relationship process. You have to hold the Holy Spirit and yourself at a certain distance from GOD. God doesn't make the image evil. The Holy Spirit doesn't make the image evil. You don't make the image evil either. It's the relationship of how your dealing with GOD, that makes the image appear, and thus become evil.
Hope this make sense. Sure GOD creates the lens, the medium affect and the light, but GOD CANNOT make the EVIL. The evil only comes by RELATIONSHIP. And not by you alone either. But by you in relationship with GOD.
God cannot be morally evil as well as morally good. To say this implies relationships are not required, and we have as Islam says, one GOD. But GOD is a relational Being, with a family of divinity in it.
You seem to be saying GOD created earth with chaos in it as part of its design...already there...if that is true, relationship with GOD is not required, and everybody is saved whether they do moral evil or moral good or both moral evil and good. It doesn't matter, because there is no loss of relationship to GOD.
But sin is defined as missing. Missing what? Relationship.
God is only good. Sin is only about bad. Both come about by relationship. You choose relationship with bad or good, but you CANNOT choose both. So where did bad come from? a fallen angel choose to do bad. Why? Scripture does not say why. He was an angel, who sinned. So the relationship with GOD ended. Could have the Father have taken this fallen angel back if he repented? yes... but he chose not to repent...and to make things worse he deceived other angels too. there was war in heaven. chaos. who caused the chaos? angels did. Not GOD. These angels all wanted to move their lens further from GOD, so the Holy Spirit allowed their wish to be observable by themselves. This is what dysfunction means...These fallen angels never killed anybody yet, they didn't think this was possible??
When Satan the angel made Adam sin, He saw GOD make clothes for the lost covering of the Holy Spirit about them. Death came that very day. Where does death come from? By GOD? No...
Ex 21:22 ¶ If Satan strive, and hurt the Holy Spirit with child, so that her fruit depart from her, (Adam and Eve and all their future children) 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
This verse says the Archon who caused this human mischief has to eternally die.
But the Saviour who rescues us has to as well. offer an eternal sacrifice...
So death, the first and second death, ultimately comes from Satan, the fallen angel, who sinned first.
If you make GOD the author of moral evil as well as moral good, than living a good life is not required, as we are saved by a GOD who designed sin in our lives. SO we can live anyway we choose? Does Scripture say this? No
If you define sin for me, you will see a difference between God and "ra".
Shalom my friend. While we have our differences, I enjoy talking with you. Such discussion sharpens our minds, as Scripture makes things more clear.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 16, 2019 6:48:40 GMT -5
Ok – all things are created by god – through Christ were all things created so Christ created evil John1 God=Word=Christ=Holy Spirit=God=Christ=Holy Spirit = Trinity Perhaps we should be discussing if the Trinity is real – Christ is God incarnate! Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Creator Is Christianity a Monotheistic religion or Polytheistic - the whole world asks this question Gnostics are not confused about this  I am not the one saying it - Isaiah is – scripture is If God did not create everything – who is the other creator? A lot of denominations build an entire doctrine around one single verse because they assume it to be. This reference it to the one – created differently – I have lots of verses to support that Actually, I think you miss read the verse - I think is says -'the prince of the power of the air is the spirit that worketh (I could be wrong) First you tell me the Holy Spirit is not involved – now you quote a passage and to prove that the Holy Spirit is working as an agent of RA - one of us is confused Again – not my answer – God’s answer – scripture – this is not the only verse where God says he is testing us. There is a difference between abuse and being tested. - Is the Law of Moses abuse or a guide for correct living? God gave man the Law – then checks in on man daily and asks – are you keeping my law? Is this abuse? Job was a God fearing man - God said - lets test that - then satan abused Job God ordered the hit - satan did the abuse God sent the angel of death - that angel did the abuse God ordered the slaughter of thousands - Israel did his work - was Israel abusing it neighbors or were they just carrying out righteous judgment? Correct - In the story of Job – God orders the hit – satan is the hitman We are tried by satan (Archon)- correct that is their job – it is why they exist The Archon and their overseer do the testing - Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: (He has an opposition force to do it for Him) Of course moral evil is a part of RA but RA is more Actually I though Jeff Brenner makes the point that movement is involved - RA is a movement toward dysfunction I am going to play with my new imaginary application of RA as justice When God ordered the merciless slaughter of so many thousands of people thought the ahl – all Christians say – that's not evil that was righteous judgment. So – RA is movement toward righteous judgment. You asked me what is SINIf I was a new Christian I would start making a long list of things (murder, lying, etc) But I think all those things are just expressions of your sin Man has a Free Will choice to Seek God or not – to Seek TOV or not (which is RA) SIN – is the choice we make If we chose mitzvah its in the direction of TOV, if we don’t it’s in the direction of RA (IMO - mitzvah -- Hebrew word for: an action of -submit, comply, obey, agree) In all things - we have a choice mitzvah or Sin - do right and move in the direction of TOV or do wrong and move in the direction of RA. It is not the 'doing' it is 'the choice' to do it. This is why man can sin – because we have that Free Will choice Angels created by God cannot - they serve and obey The one elohiym created by the Holy Spirit, sinned upon creation and is already judged Now you are just making up stuff! God either created everything – or there is another creator that you worship (who is that other creator you insist exist) What do you say to people – if they asks why did God order the wholesale slaughter of thousands throughout the ahl? The Egyptian population didn’t think the God of the Jews was nice at all |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 13:35:41 GMT -5
That was perhaps your best and clearest reply to our discussion Dave. I think I am understanding your view. I just don't agree with it. And really we shouldn't think about this... because it muddies your view of love... your mixing love and hate, respect for life and murder of life, together, and GOD's laws of love are NOT like that, so for this reason, your views are wrong, and as the Rabbi say, Chuck's video, when there is an apparent contradiction in Scripture, there is a hidden discovery...I believe you haven't found it. Sometimes things we shouldn't ponder about....
There is only one verse on this theme you raise...
Isa 28:21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.
23 ¶ Give ye ear, and hear my voice; hearken, and hear my speech.
24 Doth the plowman plow all day to sow? doth he open and break the clods of his ground?
GOD does a strange act, sometimes to His creation. The simile given, is the plough which ploughs all day to sow. Why do ploughs plough? To remove clods and make tilth. What is a clod as simile of? Pride. So in our dysfunctional world sometimes in our love, we do things that are not as nice as they seem to be.
Ploughing up proud people is not emotionally nice to them, it hurts. But it's necessary.
Pruning branches on fruit trees is not nice to the tree. It hurts. But it's necessary otherwise the tree doesn't make fruit. In my humble attempt to label this strange act I term it hard love, and the nicer aspects of love, soft love.
In a dysfunctional world you require both.
But no where can you imply GOD does moral evil. As you seem to suggest. This violates the moral law. The 6th direction actually says "no wounding". Just to speak a word in slandering another person is killing that person, let alone taking a knife and killing them.
Your desire to know all things about GOD and how He works makes more confusion. Scripture says to leave some things alone, to keep things simple, to spend more time on the things clearly revealed.
Now I have many disgruntled mockers mock me and say Why does GOD do bad things to people? And I don't have an answer...Have you got a better GOD to turn to? Changing the nature of GOD as your doing to suit the confusion is not helping...it's making things worse. God does not do moral evil period. This strange act is something one can ponder, yes, but I would not advise anybody trying to understand how it works.
Now in all our discussion you have not considered the science of a medium. It is possible you don't understand what properties of light are hidden in this discovery? Light exists in duality, the particle or personal form, and the wave or spirit form. When light leaves a source it always leaves as a Personal form, but when light hits matter, reflecting off matter, it can change to either a personal form as a ray, or change to its wave form and travel as a spirit. This theory is considered in science as in Young's Experiment for example.
See my humble attempts at looking at medium affects:
spiritualsprings.org/ss-758.htm
This webpage explains duality in the Godhead, how the Shadday and the Holy Spirit are the same divine entity.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-760.htm
This webpage explains the properties of a medium.
Quote: "1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit "Holy Spirit" of the Lord "Jesus".
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Notice these verses speak of a glass, the Greek word, possibly referring to a metal mirror, as ancient people did not have glass mirrors or lens. The silver mirror was most common. Notice the affects of the mirror relate to "images" "darkly" and the "Spirit of Jesus", meaning the salvation process of Jesus is observed through the medium of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit only acts as an agency for power flow. This is what a medium does. It allows us to see and perceive things. This is why we often see "Spirit of the Lord" and the "Spirit of the Father" in Scripture.
You see The Father's moral ten directions says "no wounding" or positively "respect living things". There is no provision anywhere in the love directions to wound living things. That's why its called the Father's strange act.
Consider this if a morally evil person were allowed to live in heaven for a time, would that person enjoy the place. Gold on the streets, women so fair, love everywhere. To that person the love and loving in heaven would torture him. Why?
Because something dysfunctional does not run well to begin with, and when pure love it poured into it, it refuses to run properly. Such a living machine would eventually run into non-existence.
Let me give you a natural example. The SUN is a simile of the Son and of the Father, hence why pagan religions love the SUN. Did man land on the moon? no
Not even close. at 1000 kms above earth begins the Father's presence and its hostile to living machines. Because of dysfunction our nephesh is not fire proof, we are destroyed in the presence of the SUN. Xrays, gamma rays, cosmic rays, heat, UV, alpha rays, even light itself, destroys the living machinery. Within hours we would all be dead. It this the Father's fault? no
It's our fault because our matter is not aligned with divinity. We live in a dysfunctional world, not a functional world. Hence the problem is with us, not with GOD.
When in the end of time GOD's arms of love sweep over all the living machines on earth for one final last time, the wicked who are not fire proof are burned up, the righteous are made fire proof endure GOD's burning of love forever.
So in order to understand this properly we need to examine why dysfunction came into our universe. It has to be the consequence of sinning with angels... you cannot say, as I hear you, that GOD made our world dysfunctional on purpose...that makes GOD's love both morally evil as well as morally good. and this violates love. hence you have to be wrong. Thus we look for another answer. The sinning angels wrought dysfunction on the universe long before earth and mankind was created.
Often we are stuck on our pondering confusion, and cannot abandon our older thinking. You haven't considered medium properties of light. I have considered your replies, and there is not enough Scripture to make them work. In fact you haven't really shown much Scripture at all. In fair to both of us, there is not much Scripture to begin with. But scripture does say GOD is LOVE. God cannot lie, or hate or wound or kill. So we have to find other ways around our pondering of confusion. Hence I suggest you look at the study of the medium. It's my answer to your pondering confusion.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-759.htm
Shalom
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 16, 2019 15:33:15 GMT -5
The Gospel of Philip
There are domestic animals, like the bull and the ass and others of this kind. Others are wild and live apart in the deserts. Man ploughs the field by means of the domestic animals, and from this he is nourished, he and the animals, whether tame or wild. Compare the perfect man. It is through powers which are submissive that he ploughs, preparing for everything to come into being. For it is because of this that the whole place stands, whether the good or the evil, the right and the left. The Holy Spirit shepherds everyone and rules all the powers, the "tame" ones and the "wild" ones, as well as those which are unique.
James 1:13 – Deu 3:13 - he has an opposition force to do it in His behalf
Sustainer - The Holy Spirit shepherds everyone and rules all the powers, the "tame" ones and the "wild" ones, as well as those which are unique.
Yep – that is what the church says – I should sing Christmas Carols, have a Easter dinner ham, and donate to buy guns for the Christian militia or finance the biggest expression of vanity we can in a church building.
Ah – the christian commandment to be stupid and led astray
I don't want to be a Roman christian - I want to be a Messianic Jew - just like the disciples
Simple – god is all powerful but he can't do that – and the angels don’t even have to obey
God had a plan – but the free will of angels have turned God’s plan into a chaotic mess
Who is in charge of your Christian world – God or satan
God made everything – but he didn’t make that – who is your second creator
And who gave the angels to overpower God’s will
and the best one - god is all caring - he dose does care for most cuz they are all going to hell
Gnostics are not confused
You don’t have an answer for them because you preach salvation by a Feel Good God.
1- They don’t realize they need to be saved because they are ignorant
2- They, their family, their parents all had a taste of empty Feel Good Christianity – and life does not Feel Good. Life is hard and challenging, just when you think you can rest, the world comes at them yet again - They can relate with Job - not the empty love and peace preached by hypocrites
The message preached by empty Christendom only leaves the impression – of If and doubt
(as if it is by design - a deception)
I preach a righteous God that created absolutely everything and is in absolute control.
He gave us directions on how to live a good life and return to Him
But we are trapped within this Contest called life – and in the end we will be judges on our performance during our individual contest. How do we master this contest - like a video game of strategy? We must understand the players on the field and – what weapons are at our disposal. This is basic human instinct.
Every business man, developmentally challenged patient, disgruntled church goer, or cutting edge scientist does relate to the fact that life is hard and feels like a contest.
Who are the combatants on the field? Gnostic Christianity says, Eph 6 -
Archon and man, and to even the odds, man can ask Jesus Christ to give us the strength via Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Who are the Archon - The deep state – ancient gods, ‘other gods’, that control our world through the 13 Families - the Illuminati – Free Masons - UFOs, - Bilderbergers – Catholic Church – Islam, or the simple propagation of godless-evolution. I bet your mockers have these conversation between themselves - are you in training to witness to them - or call them out for being sinners and watch them run away. Perhaps you should try it from their perspective.
Most people believe - that outside our field of vision are entities that are anything but human who have been manipulating this reality from the outside for eons. It is Jewish cosmology. It is Gnostic cosmology, It is certainly Islamic cosmology. Yet, Christendom is the only group that is not prepared to discuses it - why is this? So curious - especially when it is the Christian that is called to fight the good fight.
You say you were and educator - two methods - cram it down your throat and threaten you with failure of you don'e memorize what you are told. Or help you understand it in other flexible terms that reaches a broader understanding by more.
Feel Good Christianity says – come to church and believe whatever we tell you - all that other stuff that makes up your reality - is imaginary – non-relevant – outside theology therefore figments of your imagination. Just do Christmas and Easter – and keep those financial donations coming
All this time you have been arguing tho opposite. You say over and over the Holy Spirit can do something God does - I say Trinity God=Holy Spirit=Christ
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 4:21:34 GMT -5
Sorry we can't talk face to face, cuz our understanding of this matter would be faster. However writing gives me a chance to think carefully what your saying.
Dave Quote: "All this time you have been arguing tho opposite. You say over and over the Holy Spirit can do something God does - I say Trinity God=Holy Spirit=Christ
Dave, you still haven't read any of my links on the Holy Spirit as a medium or an agency. A medium does not do things with it's own power, a medium carries the power of another... wind is a carrier of someone else's power, the air (media) just carries the energy in the air. The air molecules themselves have no direct part, no active role in supplying the energy. The kinetic energy individually on each atom of air, in the air is not the wind, but some wave of energy moves the air in a certain direction, causing wind.
A rope acting as a medium, can show waves travelling up and down the rope, but the fibres do not move with the wave, the rope is just a carrier of the energy wave, hence a medium.
I will try another approach...
When you love your wife and your wife loves you back, responding in some way, did you cause her response? Did you create her love coming back to you? no, you cannot say you created her response, because in a relationship, nobody owns a relationship, nobody can take credit, when relationship responds.
Many husbands might do something nice to their wives hoping for some reward, but this is a selfish motive, again her response in a heavenly world is not based on selfish motive, nobody can force a relationship response because of free will.
I will try another example...
A wicked person is holding GOD's hand, the breath of life requires this, and the wicked person kills a person because of his hatred love for the person he kills. Did the person kill the other person on his own? no, he needs divinity to cause the relationship response. Did God create the murderous act? no. Again nobody owns the relationship response. The relationship is not owned or created by anybody on their own, because a response cannot be made on their own.
But who caused the other person to die? The person who did murder did, not GOD, even though a relationship response requires divinity connected with humanity.
Can you see this concept, I am presenting?
That's why relationship is important to GOD. Because GOD can't create a relationship response, neither can you on your own. Everybody requires a hand holding the hand of divinity. Including angels. Only divinity has immortality.
And even with divinity the love that flows requires a divine hand holding another divine hand, divinity does not function on its own. The flow of love comes from a single source, but its generated within a family. Hope this make sense?
So when you say GOD is morally evil, you really making a terrible error. This implies the Father when holding the Holy Spirit's hand, causes a relationship response that is violating the ten commandments of love. This cannot be. GOD is love and loving, and such relationships are founded on relationships the Father and the Holy Spirit make together, and morally evil, is not one of them.
As for the strange act, when the Holy Spirit carrying the Father's love, destroys the life in the wicked, how is this achieved? What is living ? It is a relationship of matter with divinity?
(Such a relationship is not founded on a single member of GOD alone. The breath of life is a flow from the Father via the Holy Spirit. will talk more on later, as I see it's critical to your thinking).
If matter chooses to do dysfunctional things in a relationship response, while holding the hand of divinity, whose fault is that? Not God's. But yours. So a dysfunctional state of love is technically a state of instant dissolution of matter, but GOD decides out of mercy to keep you living, who is at fault for a lack of mercy here? Not GOD, but you because your hurting GOD all the time He strains to keep you living. Since you have chosen to break the hand with divinity and GOD responds to your desire, your matter within you, experiences dissolution and you cease to be. Did GOD wound you? No, God kept you living for an abnormal amount of time because He loves you. The penalty of missing is "dying die", Scripture says, but why "dying die"? Why repeat "muwth-muwth" twice? because missing is immediately a state of dissolution, but out of mercy the Father and the Holy Spirit respond to your relationship and keep you on probation, despite your plight with eternal death.
Is there any hints of this long probation of living imposed on the dysfunction, because of the Father's and the Spirit's love? Yes
Ge 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. (KJV)
Why does GOD wait 400 yrs until the cup of the Amorites is full? To see if any generations in that dysfunctional state choose to follow GOD. what happens to these nations after their cup is full of missing? Probation closes, and they experience what all along their relationship response wishes for, dissolution of matter, ceasing to exist.
So let's have a look at the angel of death, the destroyer, doing a strange act...
Ex 12:23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
The Hebrew word "shachath" translated as "destroyer" will be studied.
Ge 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was "Destroyed"; for all flesh had "destroyed" his way upon the earth.
13 ¶ And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will "destroy" them with the earth.
So as matter-divinity relationship destroys the earth, who is causing the destroying? The persons who choose to destroy are, not the divinity who upholds the relationship. GOD is simply giving what each person wishes, dissolution of matter. Only a merciful GOD waited so long until their cups were full of not a slight chance of repentance. Only 8 were saved.
Ge 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
Notice again the mercy of GOD's love once again. The destroyers of relationship with divinity are the people who choose to destroy, not GOD who simply gives into their desire to be destroyed. And God chooses not to destroy for the sake of 1o people who are straight. And even than the angels rescue Lot and two daughters, only three, and nominal believers in any case. Hardly any hot followers of GOD here?
Ex 32:7 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have "destroyed" themselves:
Again the people die because they destroyed themselves.. God is only granting their wish to die, a experience dissolution... the relationship with GOD ends...
did GOD choose to end the relationship? no, The people did by their love for destroying the relationship.
De 32:5 They have destroyed themselves,
Again if you do missing, you are destroying yourself...Not God's fault...God's love saves, relationship with Him is eternal peace, but if you keep on missing, the result of this is a destroying of relationship...
Jos 22:33 ... to destroy the land...
If man's destroys earth physically, as we are doing, who is to blame? God? no, the Destroyer is man, no following natural laws of respect for the land.
Weeds came upon Adam when Adam was found destroying the earth after He sinned. Missing is so much more than moral sin, for all the earth groans because of Adam's missing.
Jer 12:10 Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard,...
So many churches and assemblies destroyed by false pastors destroying people seeking salvation...so sad...
Jer 51:25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which "destroy" all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.
So at the end of time, when GOD grants us our wish, to those who wish to destroy the earth...who destroyed the earth? man does with their sins... God creates it new again because earth is destroyed...
Da 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
A chief Archon power destroys many, and stands against the Archon of Archons, who is He? Jesus is. The Hebrew or Aramaic term simply means "prince".
Ho 9:9 They have "destroyed" themselves,
Again not GOD is destroying, only responding to the destroyers wishes... you...
Ho 13:9 ¶ O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help.
GOD is our helper, not a destroyer, but we destroy ourselves...
Now these are the Scripture messages of the Destroyer...Have I missed a message? DO you have some other Scripture message?
Dave: "Sustainer - The Holy Spirit shepherds everyone and rules all the powers, the "tame" ones and the "wild" ones, as well as those which are unique.
Rob: " correct. The Holy Spirit sustains all things. including the good and the bad.
But who destroys the relationship? You do , not GOD. We are the destroyers. Satan is the first destroyer because He sinned first.
You define sin as a choice. Yes but a choice has no power on its own. Relationship has power once you choose. You have a choice to use the "Guns of GOD". Your choice. to do good with the bullets or do evil. Don't blame GOD for destroying you...you destroy yourself. Its not the gun that is evil, its the person who chooses to do evil with it.
Notice the relationship game:
Ge 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
The woman you, GOD made for me, tricked me and I did eat. Your to blame I sinned.
Ge 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
The angel you, GOD made before me, tricked me and did eat. Your to blame I sinned.
Ge 3:14 ¶ And the LORD God said unto the serpent,...
hang on a minute GOD, you made me, and thus made me to sin, so I did, so you're responsible for my sin.
Is GOD responsible that a perfect angel sinned? Just because God made free will, and choice and loved the angels perfectly. Where did sin come from? Scripture doesn't answer this. The angel chose to sin. And dysfunction flooded into our universe.
There is no other answer to where "ra" comes from...it has to be because of "sinning" from "destroyers" who "Destroy" themselves.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (KJV)
I heard from your videos that "choshek" is a darkness of demons, hence GOD created Archons for testing creatures seeking GOD' love... Let's test this idea...
What does "choshek" mean? The meaning must fit all verse of context...every verse both OT and NT sources. Line upon line, here a little, there a little, all over the Bible....
Job 12:22 He discovereth deep things out of "darkness",
and bringeth out to light the "shadow of death".
"darkness" is a simile of "shadow of death".
Job 15:22 He believeth not that he shall return out of darkness, and he is waited for of the sword.
He that supporteth not, shall not repent, shall return to darkness, and the sword waiting for him. That's clear. This darkness is a place of non-existence. If we don't support salvation, we are doomed to experience "darkness".
Ps 18:11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
A strange context, this darkness is a starting secret place GOD deals with, a state where nothing exists, a chaos perhaps?
Isa 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
Hope in GOD our saviour.
Notice the context:
Isa 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
Can darkness, a place where nothing exists have treasures? Secret places? Mysteries... we ponder confusion...
4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Notice the relationship comes here, know the by name.. but thou has not known me.
5 ¶ I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God "elohiym" (family) beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Now a wide relationship, no family but my family is with you always...but you don't know my family...
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
A special relationship. I am the one who exists. Me and you...a close relationship, no other relationship beside...
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
In this context, this poetry simile has to do with relationships... light and dark is about relationships, peace and ra is about relationships, the LORD of relationships does as you wish, its you yoked to me, your choice...
8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
What's created here by YHWH? Relationship springs from mother earth, the Holy Spirit, the mother of your living.
9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
Can the clay which YHWH makes to respond to his loving say why must I respond this way or that way? Yet we have free will to choose who we respond to our maker.
10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
Can we ask why O Father did you make me like this? Or the Holy Sprit, why I am like this? Can we the clay question GOD?
11 ¶ Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
Sure GOD directs our ways, takes us where we want to go...but who chooses to walk in thy ways? You do.
Pr 16:9 ¶ A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
We choose our way, YHWH directs our steps...but is we choose to destroy ourselves, the YHWH directs our way to go there...and you destroy yourself.
In this reply here I chose not to speak of medium or agency, but about relationship. It may mean something to you.
Dave:" Quote"
Who are the combatants on the field? Gnostic Christianity says, Eph 6 -
Archon and man, and to even the odds, man can ask Jesus Christ to give us the strength via Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Who are the Archon - The deep state – ancient gods, ‘other gods’, that control our world through the 13 Families - the Illuminati – Free Masons - UFOs, - Bilderbergers – Catholic Church – Islam, or the simple propagation of godless-evolution. I bet your mockers have these conversation between themselves - are you in training to witness to them - or call them out for being sinners and watch them run away.
I agree with you here. Walter Veith speaks much about this, too much some say. He rarely only speaks about salvation. Mostly about Masons, Morals and Dogma, the antichrist...yes the powers of darkness are real.
But they did not come about from God's design for man. They came to exist because they did sinning before mankind also first sinned. This is our discussion.
Dave: "I don't want to be a Roman christian - I want to be a Messianic Jew - just like the disciples
Rob: "So do I. I can't stand lukewarm Christians who pretend to know Jesus.
Dave: "Who is in charge of your Christian world – God or satan
God is and always was. Jesus volunteered as Archon of Archons (prince of princes) to take back the fallen earth from prince angel who sinned first. But the prince angel who sinned first challenges the Father as His kingdom.
A Pastor did a sermon once and postulated that perhaps GOD allowed Satan to test Job because he had some pride to remove, hence Satan did have a legitimate claim over Job's soul. I don't buy it, but its a thought, since you make the Father giving permission for Satan to do his thing... My own struggle every day, removing every trace of missing is impossible...I am always forgetting GOD, especially in the presence of other humans, I talk using self, instead of asking GOD what should I say to them now? Supporting GOD every second of the day is the true fight of faith.
Dave: "I preach a righteous God that created absolutely everything and is in absolute control. He gave us directions on how to live a good life and return to Him
Rob: "Correct. But GOD does not do moral evil, like we do. God is always a family of loving and love.
Dave:"Every business man, developmentally challenged patient, disgruntled church goer, or cutting edge scientist does relate to the fact that life is hard and feels like a contest.
Rob: "Life is hard because we live in a fallen world. Not God's fault we live like this. Adam's sin did this. Who tricked Adam to sin? The angel who sinned first did. This is the only answers we have from Scripture. This angel claims to be a prince of earth. Or your Greek term Archon of Earth. Why a prince? Because this angel was to be a king over creation... and hence an eternal world of dysfunction.
Scripture says a universe of dysfunction will never ever exist again. Why did it happen in the first place? Because of sin. Sin from an angel. That's the only oldest answer we have. There was once war in heaven.
World war I and II were not Scripture wars. Such loss was planned by the Masons to make money out of death and dying. A real war has opposite fighters and opposite ideals. God is not a GOD of dysfunction and moral evil. He only allows dysfunction to exist if you want it to exist. Your choice. And the Holy Spirit allows your choice to exist.
Dave:" Feel Good Christianity says – come to church and believe whatever we tell you -
I believe only what Scripture tells me...GOD is love. God is not morally evil. That would imply GOD is also hate, and lies and kills people. Your not saying this are you? Just because GOD created creation and humans, GOD cannot create relationship responses to love...that comes from free will choice... Therefore GOD cannot create all things....
If I use the medium properties...what is a murder person?
virtual image...
How can I be sure of this? Because when science holds a lens to an object, the image is not made from real rays of light, but from imaginary rays, science calls virtual rays...so when we see "Evil" in people, its not made from "light" or the "lens" or the media. How is the image made than? From you...the "evil" is a projection of the virtual rays inside the medium. Thus GOD does not even directly have anything to do with you being evil. You do... Have a look at a magnifying glass, or check my links and see how mediums work... concave and convex lens do some magic things with light...even virtual images... if it wasn't like this, an evil person who sinned would cease to exist immediately once they sinned in God's light. But they don't thanks to the mercy of medium properties.
Shalom my friend.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 17, 2019 9:21:36 GMT -5
Now – you are putting words in my mouth
God created everything – I believe this – you don’t, but you still haven’t identified the second creator
You can name as many examples of the elohiym having the exact same nature as man. They act just like us. If we would do something that means the angels would do it – therefore the angels in heaven act like us – don’t believe it – don’t think it possible – a trinity of beings made for different functions from different mediums. – but angels, archon, and man can all be described like men – act like men?
You will never convince me – Jews don’t believe this, Gnostics don’t believe this, Islam sure doesn’t believe this - I don’t believe this
God made everything – period!
Matter must move toward entropy! It can do no other.
What a bunch of Christian mythology.
None of the 99% knew the God of Israel – not introduced – how could they choose what they do not know? - The 400 years were so that the DNA contamination of the Canaanite population could be accomplished. The Rephiem we allowed to populated the land – so that they were in place to face Israel as they returned
Before the flood, man struggled against the Nephilim – now it is Joshua and Israel against the Rephiem. If you do not understand this a lot of the ahl is confusing – your Nice Loving God of Mercy killed how many?
Where does everything come from? One creator or more? Who sent the angel of death onto unsuspecting Egyptians? - God did!- because he has mercy and Love for them and God does no evil thing - except killing how many? --- God is also the God of Righteous Judgment -looked pretty awful to the Egyptians.
Perfect – but sinned = not perfect
Scripture does say – Eve Chose!
God made everything – if He didn’t there is a second creator
The Darkness is a hiding place for the Archon – very Gnostic
On the Origin of the World
Now the eternal realm (aeon) of truth has no shadow outside it, for the limitless light is everywhere within it. But its exterior is shadow, which has been called by the name 'darkness'. From it, there appeared a force, presiding over the darkness. And the forces that came into being subsequent to them called the shadow 'the limitless chaos'. From it, every kind of divinity sprouted up [...] together with the entire place, so that also, shadow is posterior to the first product. It was <in> the abyss that it (shadow) appeared, deriving from the aforementioned Pistis.
Then shadow perceived there was something mightier than it, and felt envy; and when it had become pregnant of its own accord, suddenly it engendered jealousy. Since that day, the principle of jealousy amongst all the eternal realms and their worlds has been apparent. Now as for that jealousy, it was found to be an abortion without any spirit in it. Like a shadow, it came into existence in a vast watery substance. Then the bile that had come into being out of the shadow was thrown into a part of chaos. Since that day, a watery substance has been apparent. And what sank within it flowed away, being visible in chaos: as with a woman giving birth to a child - all her superfluities flow out; just so, matter came into being out of shadow, and was projected apart. And it did not depart from chaos; rather, matter was in chaos, being in a part of it.
And when these things had come to pass, then Pistis came and appeared over the matter of chaos, which had been expelled like an aborted fetus - since there was no spirit in it. For all of it (chaos) was limitless darkness and bottomless water. Now when Pistis saw what had resulted from her defect, she became disturbed. And the disturbance appeared, as a fearful product; it rushed to her in the chaos. She turned to it and blew into its face in the abyss, which is below all the heavens.
And when Pistis Sophia desired to cause the thing that had no spirit to be formed into a likeness and to rule over matter and over all her forces, there appeared for the first time a ruler, out of the waters, lion-like in appearance, androgynous, having great authority within him, and ignorant of whence he had come into being. Now when Pistis Sophia saw him moving about in the depth of the waters, she said to him, "Child, pass through to here," whose equivalent is 'yalda baoth'.
Since that day, there appeared the principle of verbal expression, which reached the gods and the angels and mankind. And what came into being as a result of verbal expression, the gods and the angels and mankind finished. Now as for the ruler Yaltabaoth, he is ignorant of the force of Pistis: he did not see her face, rather he saw in the water the likeness that spoke with him. And because of that voice, he called himself 'Yaldabaoth'. But 'Ariael' is what the perfect call him, for he was like a lion. Now when he had come to have authority over matter, Pistis Sophia withdrew up to her light.
When the ruler saw his magnitude - and it was only himself that he saw: he saw nothing else, except for water and darkness - then he supposed that it was he alone who existed.
The Hypostasis of the Archons – From the Apostille Paul (an obvious heretic to all Christians)
But I said, "Sir, teach me about the faculty of these authorities – how did they come into being, and by what kind of genesis, and of what material, and who created them and their force?"
And the great angel Eleleth, understanding, spoke to me: "Within limitless realms dwells incorruptibility. Sophia, who is called Pistis, wanted to create something, alone without her consort; and her product was a celestial thing. A veil exists between the world above and the realms that are below; and shadow came into being beneath the veil; and that shadow became matter; and that shadow was projected apart. And what she had created became a product in the matter, like an aborted fetus. And it assumed a plastic form molded out of shadow, and became an arrogant beast resembling a lion. It was androgynous, as I have already said, because it was from matter that it derived.
Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'.
And he said, "If any other thing exists before me, let it become visible to me!" And immediately Sophia stretched forth her finger and introduced light into matter; and she pursued it down to the region of chaos. And she returned up to her light; once again darkness [...] matter.
This ruler, by being androgynous, made himself a vast realm, an extent without limit. And he contemplated creating offspring for himself
I disagree
Again – God created everything - I the LORD do all these things.
We don’t exist in God’s plan – angels can change God’s plan – angels are greater than God?
You just made the point that God is not in charge – angels have the free will to disobey God – they can change God’s plan – you say this – I never will
He has a staff to do it for Him
WOW – I could not disagree more!
WWI resulted in the Belford Declaration – the beginning of the Jewish return to Palestine
WWII resulted in Israel becoming a Nation State once again
This is all God’s Plan and 100% scriptural - or don't you see God's plan (prophesy) in it
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Oct 17, 2019 9:54:55 GMT -5
God created everything, but we teach that he allowed evil to come into existence. Having said that, it only makes sense that evil did not create itself.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 13:33:45 GMT -5
Dave, your quote is terribly corrupt, how do you know these quotes were not tampered with by the Devil himself? They are 100% opposed to Scripture.
These texts are saying matter has inherent in it chaos. Science even in a dysfunctional world has evidence that at absolute zero or near to it, matter ceases to produce friction. Friction is an example of chaos. Therefore even in our world of dysfunction, we can still produce matter without any chaos in it. Go figure that one. Dysfunction is NOT a integral part of GOD's creation at all. In the new earth, there will be no friction, no heat loss, no shadows, no entropy. Things stay as they are. Flowers removed from bushes do not die. Animals make no dung. We eat food without fibre in it. Our colon genes are switched off. Our sex genes are switched off. Your asking me where did the second creation come from? GOD foreknew the possibility of sinning entering again another universe, so established one with the ability to do both function and dysfunction (hence the name of the tree), a finely tuned universe with 120 decimal point accuracy, so finely tuned. Why so finely tuned...to allow dysfunction to exist without GOD upholding it directly so it could run as the angel who challenged the Father wanted...his own universe.... and I can see from your literature just now, this angel who sinned has made sure the literature has an eternal universe of dysfunction written into the plan of GOD....And to say all this chaos results from the Holy Spirit spilling labour waters from a so called womb....your implying that GOD deals with imperfection all the time.
OK let's test your idea.
Your theory explains where sin comes from and where the archon came from, the imperfect labour spilling of waters from the womb of the Holy Spirit. Is this correct?
So why does this Archon finally come to an end?
Why trust a GOD who deals with order and disorder? Not very smart if GOD can't control the imperfect labour spilling's of friction, chaos and entropy?
This implies the laws GOD has includes friction, entropy, hate and good, after all nothing is perfect...but some sort of order arises from the mess God deals with, all within Itself.
Your model of gods is similar to a Greek idea, where the gods bicker and fight among themselves, they have to because the framework of laws deal with disorder and order, with hate and love, with imperfect and perfect atoms of motion.
This model is not much different to evolution, where matter having both order and disorder in it arises to become more ordered over time, through random chance and selection to become more good. What a silly idea. Is GOD really trying to overcome all the chaos within itself, to overcome all the imperfection within itself, the friction, the heat and the entropy, so when it have labour pains, imperfect flows come within GOD itself... what a silly idea?
Suddenly your model of the uncaused caused is a lesser perfect entity, dealing with chaos, friction, heat, and entropy implies that infinity is no longer infinity and has to deal with stuff in order to be above it all? But than the uncaused cause is not above all things, because during the labour pains of creation imperfections flows out of the uncaused cause. What a silly idea. Your god who see is no longer the great I AM. No wonder you see a Father who kills people, and does bad things, or as you say gets other hit beings to do his dirty work, in our court system this makes the Father just as guilty. You not serious are you? You concept of GOD is a mixture of sin and sinless, of hate and good, of imperfect matter and perfect matter. Imperfect matter is matter that slows down because of entropy and friction. Perfect matter doesn't, and continues forever in motion doing its thing.
Is this the essence of Gnostic writings? I can see why the literature is not in our Hebrew scriptures. Didn't GOD declare our creation every step was "Very good/functional" ?
I would predict from this theory of theology your understanding of "sin" is confused as well.
You would say "sin" is a part of GOD, that sometimes "sin" happens, and so God forgives us because sin is a fundamental part of GOD to begin with. So what was this war in heaven about if it wasn't a war? What is a war anyhow?
I watched a ABC doco on wars, and discovered Bonaparte, the great general of all of Europe was no general at all, had to go to a German banker to fund his army some more. Is that a war? Who funded Hitler into power? Why did the USA sell oil to Germany during the war? and also computer parts?
SO if Scripture speaks of a cherub who sinned, what does this mean to you? Nothing I suppose.
After all sin is already a part of GOD's design, as is imperfect matter, and the Archon who arose from matter as an androgynous Being, was part of creation, and hence humans deal with this negative force, because its part of the framework our matter, our bodies deal with all the time, hence the testing. Is this your theory? We are constantly dealing with a negative force, the chief Archon and his offspring, because imperfection is a part of GOD's creation in the engineering of mankind from matter?
I guess it can make sense...explains the testing, the origin of imperfection and sin as well as the Archons who arose from this special creation, ie matter for humans.
However this theory lacks some answers:
Why create another kind of creation to begin with? Why have humans at all?
Do other created kinds deal with the same inherit imperfections of entropy, hate and good, as we humans from imperfect matter deal with?
Could not have GOD created perfect matter? Why does labour pains from the Holy Spirit have imperfections in it? Can't GOD make creation perfect? Isn't GOD greater than chaos?
You theory has the same flaws as mine does, it doesn't answer the basic question, where did sin come from? You say a perfect world cannot sin. I agree it shouldn't. But what does free will mean? I agree angels don't have the same body as humans do, and are different. But your saying they are robots, no free will. OK
Why does Scripture say one who was perfect became filled with sinning? You don't explain this? You don't even see this as significant? Whereas I do. Its the only Scripture that explains where imperfection comes from. It's critical and you ignore it.
You ignore this scripture an go looking for some other inspired literature... why do you do that? Are you saying this one verse is tampered with? Is our Bible no longer trustworthy?
Either imperfection (ra) arose from sinning, ie a created Being, or it arose from GOD? That is our big question... we have different answers...
In your model "sin" is not a big deal. Our creation has imperfection in it because of the creation pains from the womb of the Holy Spirit. This is where Archon and sin and entropy comes from, a bad beginning. Did GOD really create our world with a bad beginning? Do you really believe this? I thought GOD was greater than this...
No wonder why Jews don't see sinning in their Hebrew OT. No wonder Muslims see a Father with love and hate, with killings allowed, after all creation had a bad beginning built into it.
And if GOD can't create things that don't have a bad beginning, than GOD can't create a world with a good beginning, so our GOD deals with good and bad all the time. Not a very powerful GOD is this, is it? Sounds evolutionary...quantum mechanics has entropy in it all the time? Really? I don't buy into this... our universe is flawed because originally an angel sinned. That makes more sense to me.
That's a big deal to me. We don't have to have answers to answers. As a Muslim video on the existence of GOD explains, if we go to the moon and see machinery there, we would say some aliens put that there. But we don't have to ask where did the aliens come from? And where did that come from? Otherwise nothing could be answered?
SO when Scripture says a cherub sinned. That's an answer. We don't have to ask for an answer to the answer. the war in heaven was over the angel who sinned. And we go from there... but you don't see angels sinning... why is that? At least one angel sinned, doesn't scripture say that?
By using Gnostic literature you moving from Scripture, which says a cherub sinned, to the Holy Spirit who had imperfect pains during her labour pains, hence creation is fundamentally flawed with imperfect matter, and hence imperfect humans deal with chaos all the time, and this Archon who arose from the imperfection as the Holy Spirit caused it to arise. What a theory this is. As a theory it's valid. But is not sola scriptoria.
Show me the Scripture for your idea? that creation was fundamentally flawed before Adam sinned?
I showed you mine: it's clean and simple:
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Sure some parts are edited by the KJV, but it speaks of \\
1) A star wanting to be a king like the most High Father
2) GOD brings this star to a Hebrew word "shaowl" the abyss
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
A cherub sinned. That is a big statement.
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Written in Greek, it clearly says
Other angels also sinned apart from this one cherub who sinned.
War in heaven.
When you bring other themes into this framework, they have to match up with all the themes in Scripture.
Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Your saying GOD knows good and evil, because GOD is good and evil. So the serpent did not lie here?
Did GOD see Hitler before creation? How is this possible? Than there is no free will to choose? And relationship are always predicted by GOD? with 100% precision? Including every sin you do before your fathers father was born. is that possible? Does GOD know the love response from a relationship with GOD?
I can see why you write abut creation as you do, your saying I think, anti-matter and perfect matter is a part of God's creation... I don't see this...we will have to agree to disagree...
You see sinning as a force we naturally deal with, that imperfect matter in the form of Archon comes to test us...it's not longer a fight of relationship, but overcoming God's flawed creation...built into matter for humans from the beginning. Sorry I don't accept this.
I see salvation based on relationships. Not a force of imperfect matter we have to overcome.
Shalom
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 17, 2019 15:09:02 GMT -5
Yes, the Laws of the Cosmos are God’s Laws
In the beginning God created the TOV and the RA – and gave you a choice between the two
It is what the Archon were made for
If you don’t trust in Him how can salvation form RA occur?
Not even close –
'disorder in it arises to become more ordered over time,'
Via the incremental creative steps by the Creator over a Biblical 6 day period
Don’t you believe this?
Yes, I turn on the news each and every day and see it
And Jewish cosmology is wrong – Paul cancelled it – Jesus stopped being Jewish and now we have a Feel Good Catholic cosmology
choice – choosing RA is sin
One angel CHOSE to rule over the chaos in hell – I have said this countless times
Haven’t you read Gen 3? It will keep us away from being in the presence of the Lord. It is how you fail your contest.
The serpent was in the garden before Adam and Eve chose to sin
Now your God does not know the future – prophesy is just a guess?
My God is omniscience – nothing less
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 17, 2019 15:36:46 GMT -5
Why WWII is 100% scriptural
How did Israel get out of Egypt?
Exo 2:23 … and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.
Exo 14:10 And when Pharaoh drew nigh, the children of Israel lifted up their eyes, and, behold, the Egyptians were marching after them; and they were sore afraid: and the children of Israel cried out unto Jehovah.
Lam 2:18 Their heart cried unto the Lord:
Psa 34:6 This poor man cried, and Jehovah heard him, And saved him out of all his troubles.
The Exegesis on the Soul
And repentance takes place in distress and grief. But the father is good and loves humanity, and he hears the soul that calls upon him and sends it the light of salvation.
WWII = Holocaust = Israel cried out, like they used to do – and the Nation of Israel was re-born
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 17:20:19 GMT -5
Dave, your theory is interesting. So let me try to capture what your saying. GOD decided to create heaven and earth, but in doing do, when the Holy Spirit was involved also in the creation, her womb also included dysfunctional aspects of matter. An archon was chosen to rule over this dysfunction, since it arose from the dysfunction itself. The archon symbolized as a serpent was in Eden upholding dysfunction long before Mankind made the choice to follow dysfunction. Man had a choice to follow TOV or RA. Man decided to follow RA, which was inherent in matter to begin with. When GOD creates the new earth, does this earth also include RA and TOV again? Or only TOV? You say Archon is some Being, that volunteered to rule over RA, does that make Being have free will? So when GOD finally ends Archon, isn't that an act of murder, to a TOV Being who volunteered to rule over RA? why can't the Holy Spirit create matter without RA? You say sin is a choice, but an angel first sinned? Isn't this a choice? and evidence the angels also have free will? Why would GOD have robots to do his bid and calling? ie serve Him blindly without question? How is this loving? And if GOD sees and knows every thought and act and decision you do before you do it, than its no longer free will is it? Humans are robots too. So GOD would have known the exact millisecond this first angel sinned, whatever that means, because angels can't sin, because they have no free will to choose? You say angels just serve like robots? Some things are difficult to ponder: Dave: "Now your God does not know the future – prophesy is just a guess? My God is omniscience – nothing less When GOD writes prophesy, its 100% accurate, but does this also include internal decision making process of humans with a free will to make a choice? Isa 45:1 ¶ Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; This prophesy is very impressive. 1) A person from outside Israel is named 2) Such a person is termed a messiah 3) God will loose kings for him 4) The gates of Babylon are not shut on the day it falls to Cyrus. I understand GOD know all things, but it bothers me that maybe my responses of love to GOD, are 100% predictable to Him, thus my decisions are not free will at all, just me getting back to GOD and his TOV. This suggests we don't really have a choice of TOV or RA, if you choose TOV, than you become "robotic" much as the unfallen angels are. SO your theory of creation is interesting... Try to answer these questions: Does the new heaven and new earth, include TOV and RA, or just TOV with no RA? Are you saying GOD cannot create matter without RA, but always with TOV and RA? These other universes of creation do they come with TOV and RA in them too? What stops the unfallen Beings from choosing RA if its embedded in their DNA? And if angels don't have free will, and sin means to choose, how do you explain a cherub sinning as Scripture says? This implies the universe long before mankind existed, the RA must have existed in the universe, or else how do you explain the arrival of sin in an angel? My theory is much easier and more loving. GOD is not inherently full of TOV and RA, only TOV. Sin is a broken relationship, nothing to do with RA per se. The RA comes when Beings walk away from GOD, hence YHWH does RA, as you walk away, the RA is made manifest by GOD through relationship, so you can experience it, because all things are observable through GOD only via relationship. When GOD made our earth, it had TOV and RA in it already, (Gen 3 says so) but the RA was NOT (I repeat NOT activated) for earth. Because the relationship of Adam the prince, to Jesus the Creator, was not broken. The fallen angel who sinned (broken relationship) did have RA in him. He came to earth, to bring RA upon mankind, so this angel could have a kingdom of RA, and be like the Most High with his own kingdom. Hence this angel took the crown from Adam, and become prince of earth. Hence the term in Scripture "archon of earth". I see TOV and RA as the consequence of choice, of beings choosing relationship qualities with GOD. If you choose GOD, you want TOV relationship. If you choose this fallen angel who sinned first, you choose RA relationship. Now if as you say GOD knows both TOV and RA, to exacting details, than its no longer a choice, nor it is based on relationship. The whole thing is a stupid act of selfish programming on the part of GOD. Imagine a DNA programmer programming TOV and RA in our genes, just so we experience pain and joy, so we learn to love GOD with more experience and depth? So having a lost child, a raped child and experiencing war helps me broaden and deepen my love to GOD more? After all RA is embedded in my matter fabric? Your model doesn't have a GOD of love at all? Not even close. But there are religions who see GOD like this aren't there? My model has a different concept of love. God created our world to experience TOV forever, but an angel sinned first and so RA came into GOD's world. GOD had a problem to deal with, He was on trial. None in the entire universes plural had ever seen RA before. This implies the HOLY SPIRIT can create without RA. And that GOD is above RA. But Ra came when an angel sinned. Earth was created intentionally with TOV and RA to silence the court claims of Satan, the opponent to GOD in court. Hence the big end of all this is judgement, a heavenly court. Satan says TOV and RA are inherit in GOD, but GOD kept RA out of TOV and thus kept a universal experience from us. This is a lie from Satan. The provision for solving mankind from RA is very costly, eternal life (nephesh) is exchanged. You say the Holy Spirit created with RA from labour pains from her womb... Scripture does NOT say this at all. Ex 21:22 ¶ If (Satan) strive, and hurt a woman (Holy Spirit) with child (Adam and Eve), so that her fruit (mankind) depart from her, 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Scripture says (satan) caused the mischief to the womb of the Holy Spirit, not the Holy Spirit creating the world with RA for mankind. This verse also says (satan) has to exchange his nephesh for the mischief he caused. It also says Jesus has to exchange nephesh to redeem us from this penalty of mischief. So RA is extremely costly to GOD. Mischief did not come from the Holy Spirit, it came from (satan), I am adding the meaning, to give this scripture more meaning. It's the only scripture to explain why Jesus died and how RA came into our world. If the second birth is from the Holy Spirit, than the first birth is from the Holy Spirit. Hence I use this Scripture. Mischief came from Satan, not from GOD. Using your model TOV and RA, are all from GOD, so His Son was doomed to die for His creation from the beginning, it was designed. Sin was designed. The archon of RA matter was also designed. So love includes death. SO in heaven when we see our Father all clean and bright and His Son all with scars beaming from his hands with RA on his form, we are suddenly to love the Father more for this? So the Father wanted this? It was His choice to scar His Son and give this RA to carry on his form for eternity? Are you serious? Is this your model of love for the Father? Sure I agree somehow in a way I don't understand, or even what to know, GOD would have known RA? But I am not really convinced of this idea? Because it implies GOD does killings, etc? Now I have never smoked... nor do I need to... I see the affects of ill health, by imagining the opposite to good health. And if I am 100% TOV, than I can predict with 100% accuracy 100% RA without experiencing it personally. This is how I see GOD knowing RA without actually experiencing it personally. There is a natural law (maths formula) and science example that given enough time random movement is predictable. Can't remember the website or maths person, but it was an idea that stuck with me. So I am saying GOD never does killings, or lies or cheats, but can predict these experiences, because he is always 100% TOV. And the opposite of TOV is RA, therefore RA is predictable without having to personally experience RA. Nobody knows why RA came upon the decision process of free will on an angel to choose RA. Scripture says this though, but you do not like the scripture explanation, you see GOD doing RA, and thus look for an outside text to find different answer. You say RA came from the Holy Spirit, and the archon that arose from RA chose to rule over RA. Such an answer negates sin, and makes GOD a lessor god unable to create without RA, in the first place ? maybe the gnostic writings are not as inspired as you like them to be? I don't know. I have been patient with your presentation of gnostic writings, but I see a scripture clash here. As our video friend says if there is a scripture contradiction, look for the discovery. Try to pull my theory down, where is it wrong using only Scripture? I explain the RA doing of GOD, using a MEDIUM function, something you don't see, and perhaps it doesn't help anyone, because you haven't discussed this yet? But a MEDIUM allows you to do RA, while holding God's hand, thus the Scripture is correct in saying YHWH creates RA, as relationship requires it. But if you follow the natural laws of light inside a medium, the rays don't actually get involved in the image, sometimes the image is virtual. The medium also explain how GOD can get closer to RA without destroying RA in the process, because RA is totally the opposite of TOV and does not exist in GOD's direct presence. The tree of living, is termed "chayah". What is this? A Holy Spirit function with only TOV in us. To me the next biggest thing from here is to move into the definition of sinning. You say its a choice. But choice implies free will. Angels don't have free will. So your answer is contradictory? Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. O cherub you had only TOV in you from the day of your creation, until RA was found in thee. Jeff Benner defined this word "iniquity" as "wicked", in Ancient Hebrew pictographs this word reads "The twisting secure authority" If this cherub was perfect how come he has imperfection? Your answer seems to be a perfectly good angel volunteered to rule over this imperfection? Why do this? You see someone drowning in a river, your a strong swimmer. The Mum is crying out why aren't you swimming after her son? You wait, long seconds, until the last muscle fades in fight.. than you jump in, swim strongly and save him, helpless in your arms. The Mum is joyous, but asks why didn't you rescue him when he first started drowning? You say, if I went then, He would have drowned both me and himself. We tend to see the river as RA, as natural, so sin is natural. But sin is not natural. Sin is not RA. Ra is the fruit of sin. Sin is a missing of GOD powers in relationship to Him. When their is less of GOD powers in your life, RA is the fruit of your missing out on GOD. If there was no reward and you had a 100% chance of dying in the rescue, would you volunteer than? Can love work like this? Many soldiers died like this? Why did they die? To save their country from RA, but they fight RA to prevent RA, is this not madness? Is not RA a BEING bigger than man? a Fallen angel? But you say RA is a part of GOD? That's even worse, because I thought GOD was love? but now your tell me GOD is also a GOD of war? I have seen Mason movies where family members love RA and kill people, including their sons and daughters when it suits them. Didn't I love you brother? yes. So why have you let me down? And the father shoots the son, with the other sons watching. Yes this is a family of Tov and Ra? Is GOD like this? But your presenting this model to me? Scripture says fight the good fight of support. War is about supporting somebody against a bad cause. If GOD is also the doer of the bad cause, than supporting GOD is stupid. Your saying "in the beginning GOD created earth with a bad beginning". I am saying it wasn't like that, the bad came in when an angel sinned, and caused Adam to sin with him. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Now for this other thread: Da 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (KJV) Prophesy is difficult to study... what happened to Israel at the end of this week? Mt 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. (KJV) Ac 8:2 And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him. 3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison. After 3 1/2 years, the end of the week from the cross, the Jews hated Jesus so much, they went on killing his disciples, beginning with Stephen. If Israel is still blessed by GOD, where is the temple today? There isn't one. The temple is now inside followers of GOD. Its this way for a reason. Israel as a nation are followers of GOD all over the world, we call ourselves spiritual Israel, not literal Israel. And we are supposed to follow torah like Jews do, but new wine in new wine skins. www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXkmcW2-i6cWalter Veith on war, planned by Masons... maybe God uses war for good purposes? God makes good things happen out of bad things, as you point out, bringing literal Israel back? Shalom |
|
