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Post by rakovsky on Apr 9, 2019 22:36:31 GMT -5
"Seth" in Sethian gnosticism directly refers to Adam's son named Seth, rather than to the Egyptian deity by that name. But is the Egyptian god "Seth" related to the gnostic "Seth"? The Egyptian god "Seth" was of course well known in Egypt, where the Nag Hammadi scrolls were found, and Sethian gnosticism stretched from Egypt to Palestine or Armenia.
In Chapter 1 of the Apocalypse of Adam, Adam explains to Seth where he got Seth's name:
"But the knowledge entered into the seed of great aeons. I myself have called you by the name of that man who is the seed of the great race or from whom (it comes)."[G] A modern editor gives this footnote:Birger Pearson, in the book The Rediscovery of Gnosticism (Bentley Layton, ed.), writes that he doesn't believe that the Egyptian God Seth is particularly connected to Sethian Gnosticism. He writes that, On the other hand, I found theories that the ass-headed Egyptian god Seth was related to the Canaanite god Baal (Joan Lansberry, "Sethian Gnosticism", www.joanlansberry.com/setfind/sethgnos.pdf), and that the Gnostics and pagans depicted the God of Judaism, Jehovah Sabaoth, with an ass's head. Paul Carus in The Open Court (Vol.15) sees in this a connection between the Egyptian god Seth and the Gnostics' veneration of Adam's son Seth. He quotes the scholar Wunsch as saying: (SOURCE: books.google.com/books?id=mPIaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA93)Wunsch suggests that the 3rd century depiction of Alexamenos worshiping a crucified, ass-headed god is not a ridiculing piece of graffiti as schoalrs tend to think. Rather, he proposes that it's a sincere Sethian depiction of worship. Carus says that the Y drawn to the right of the ass-head is a secret Sethian symbol referring to Seth's control of the ways to the underworld.
So do you believe that the ancient Egyptian god Seth is related to the Gnostic figure of Seth?
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Post by Dave on Apr 10, 2019 12:41:17 GMT -5
So do you believe that the ancient Egyptian god Seth is related to the Gnostic figure of Seth? What do I believe? - Not Sure actually - There are a very few things that I hold dear and take on faith - after that I favor different concepts over others, yet I hope to be open minded enough to learn. As for Egyptian Seth /Set being related to Sethian Gnosticism - YES!To explain myself fully - I need to give a small background for how I see the aeon of the Torah (ahl - ancient Hebrew language) There is only One Creator - YHWY - which I will just call Y Y is God of the 100% - but remained unknown - was reveled as Y only to Abram - which becomes Israel Y is known to the 1% - and 99% of humanity at the time was kept in ignorance Y is obvious to the 99% - and all have creator gods to represent Y (Egypt Khepri) Y uses the 1% DIRECTLY Y also uses the 99% INDIRECTLY Isn't the ahl complete with the 1% proving their God Y over the 99% and their gods (small g) A: Y send Moses to Pharaoh - B: Y hardens Pharaoh's heart A: Y gives the promised land to Abraham - B: but his children would have to weight 400 years to take possession, why? So the sin of the Archon, Rephiem, Ammorites could be completed (Gen 14) Baal, Molech, etc A: Y crosses the Jordan River with Joshua - B: and the 1% with Y stand before the 99% and their 'other gods' The entire ahl is dedicated to Israel walking with Y or falling away from Y (Jud 2:4) Set/Seth from Wiki Set is portrayed as the usurper who killed and mutilated his own brother Osiris. Set had a positive role where he accompanies Ra on his solar boat to repel Apep, the serpent of Chaos. In my study with Jewish Rabbis and the Hebrew language - one point I would love to share is the Rabbinic concept of TOV and RA In English - Good and EVIL - is black and white - however, in Jewish thought, TOV is the movement or direction to FUNCTION - while RA is the movement or direction toward DYSFUNCTION Egyptian God Seth is an agent of RA Seth is a replace theology - a deception I preach / Teach / scream and yell that The Gospel was usurped by Catholicism Christians follow Christ - church goers follow Rome Vallentinius taught that God existed in 3 persons -Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and there were 3 types of Christians - Spiritual / Charismatic / Holy Ghost indwelling - Psychic / believers at heart - and the pretenders who are fools Sethians taught that Jesus Christ was not crucified on the cross. Instead the text says that Simon of Cyrene was mistaken for Jesus and crucified in his place. Jesus is described as standing by and "laughing at their ignorance." (Wiki) I belong to the Vallintenius camp DeceptionAs I weigh Gnostic teachings - I keep myself aware of two principals related to 1 Thess 5:21 - test it all and keep the good Weight of authorship - how close to the source is the author? Example - I weigh the words of Peter higher than Paul - regardless of who canonized who Consistency of Theology - If one considers himself a "believer" (not saying what) but if you believe then your theology must be consistent If your are just a doubter and are willing to entertain all options at once - you are only confused (and deceived) Egyptian god Seth is related to the Gnostic figure of SethMy question to you would be: How does this revelation impact the Judeo-Christian Heritage - does this weaken the ahl story line - or validate it My world is full of Archon - principalities - just outside outside our field of vision that are manipulating humanity from the outside. Others would say this ancient data just indicate that the ahl is a a collection of pre-dated pagan stories? |
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Post by Dave on Apr 10, 2019 14:33:55 GMT -5
Are the "other gods" (small g gods) related
Enoch has 200 "Son's of God" coming to Earth to teach mankind - they became the Watchers
The Annanauki gods were a group of aprox 200 aliens - 20 of which were major player - they were in family groups
Eqypt = 200 gods with 20 major players in related family groups
Greece / Rome - 200, 20, families
Storm gods - 200, 20, families
Norse gods - 200, 20, families
Even if you go to the Philippines - 200, 20, families
The Jinn of the Koran - different groups, families
Gnostic Chief Archon and his Archon Principalities of Eph 6
In Jewish terms:
Y - tells "the accuser' (a verb not a noun) to sick Job
The accuser is Y's instrument of testing
Who is in command of "the accuser"?
All throughout the 99% - these Watchers of Enoch / Archons of the Gnostic's / Jinn of the Koran / Shades of the Orient / and Shadow people / aliens / inter-dimensional visitors / of today are all tools of Y to test the 99%
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Post by Dave on Apr 10, 2019 14:46:04 GMT -5
Translated by Willis Barnstone
"Your mother Eve and I didn’t come from this realm. But knowledge entered into the seed of great eternal beings. For this reason I myself have called you by the name of that person who is the seed of the great generation or its predecessor. After those days the eternal knowledge of the god of truth withdrew from me and your mother Eve. Then we learned about the inanimate as we did about human beings. We recognized the god who created us. We were not strangers to his powers. And we served him in fear and slavery. After these events our hearts darkened, and I slept in my heart’s darkened thought."
Multiple dimensions - 10 of space and 1 of time
The rabbinic discussion that are of most interest are the conflicts between Literal and figurative
As a Multi-dimensionalist - it is easy for me to see the ahl playing out on multiple levels - and dimensions
Adam and Eve?
Real people - groups of people? who did Cain marry?
The Jews say - and I love this = From God we came and to God we return - indicating that we are experiencing a physical souljourn in the meantime
Could have the Adam and Eve / Cain, Able - Seth story play out spiritually before they were expelled
Jer 9 - The cyclic nature of scripture - nothing has happened that hasn't already happened
According to Adam - things all changed after they were expelled from the Garden (which is before physical Cain)
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Post by rakovsky on Apr 11, 2019 8:08:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies.
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Post by Dave on Apr 11, 2019 19:37:40 GMT -5
Do you agree?
No comments?
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Post by rakovsky on Apr 16, 2019 12:21:28 GMT -5
I will think about this.
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Post by rakovsky on Jan 28, 2020 15:33:42 GMT -5
There is apparently a connection between Egyptian Seth worship, its association with ancient Canaanite worship of donkeys, and the Sethian Gnostics' worship of donkeys. For instance, the Jewish Encyclopedia's article on Ass-Worship (https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/tje/a/ass-worship.html) connects early Sethian Christian Gnostics with a graffitied drawing of a crucified donkey.
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Post by Dave on Jan 30, 2020 14:34:34 GMT -5
If my response was lacking - I admit that I am not a Sethian Gnostic
The base of the Sethian idea is humanism - Jesus was a man sort of thing
The bane elohiym of Gen 6 were the sons of Seth - etc
I am unfamilure with this view - because it is not mine
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Post by rakovsky on Feb 6, 2020 13:20:47 GMT -5
As for Egyptian Seth /Set being related to Sethian Gnosticism - YES!I agree with your conclusion above, Dave. I suppose that the Sethians could have referred to YHWH as Y as Wunsch theorizes, but it would be helpful to have more published information on that. You ask: I think that the Apocalypse of Peter was not really written by Peter. One reason is that it talks about Hermas' writing as apparently being a fraud attributed to a dead man, if I read that line correctly. But in fact if the 1st century Roman Hermas was dead by the time when the Apocalypse of Peter was written, then Peter was probably dead at that point too. Since it's a fraud by Gnostics, I think that it doesn't do much to weaken the Judeo Christian Heritage, except that it seems to help confirm the modern theory of some scholars that the Shepherd of Hermas was a pious fraud. I am not sure what you mean when you say that some would say the ahl is a collection of "pre-dated pagan stories" Maybe you mean that according to one theory, the Old Testament is a collection of pagan stories that are mistakenly dated to an earlier time. If you go by the Biblical story, the story of Noah's ark probably comes from the time before Moses got the Torah. As such, the story was part of the pagan/pre-Israelite world. Then when Moses wrote the story of Noah's Ark, he was writing a version that he got in his own time, which was centuries later than the original pagan/pre-Israelite version. I guess that the normal Jewish/Christian response is that according to divine inspiration or God's talking to Moses, Moses got the story of Noah's Ark correct. He wasn't just playing a simple game of telephone where he "predated" his story back to the original time of Noah's ark, but instead he got his story from God or Inspiration so that he got his story correct. My own take on this, and a take that the EO Church would find acceptable, is that the OT is not really a science book. It could have stories like Noah's ark retold centuries after the flood, and yet still be correct in a spiritual way. |
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Post by rakovsky on Feb 6, 2020 13:45:54 GMT -5
Are the "other gods" (small g gods) related Sure, it must be the case that some "gods" are related. In the Babylonian system, different gods are the children of the Sky god "An"/"Anu", hence the term " Anunnaki" |
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Post by rakovsky on Feb 6, 2020 13:51:34 GMT -5
Adam and Eve? Real people - groups of people? who did Cain marry? My own guess is that Adam and Eve in the story were archetypal, rather than literal, figures, although certainly there have been real people in history named Adam and Eve. The Bible doesn't specify Cain's wife's name, but in the Book of Jubilees she is called Awan. |
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Post by rakovsky on Feb 6, 2020 20:20:50 GMT -5
One apparent connection between the god Seth and the Sethian Gnostics comes through the use of the symbol of an ass's head. I laid out this connection on the OrthodoxChristianity.net Forum, where I wrote basically: - The Egyptians reported that the Hyksos peoples who crossed the Sinai from the Middle East to conquer Egypt worshiped the god Seth.
- The god Seth was associated with the Canaanite god Baal.
- The god Seth was associated with asses/donkeys, and the Egyptians sometimes depicted the god Seth as having an ass's head.
- The Greeks associated the god Dionysus with Middle Eastern gods and donkeys.
- So, graffiti from the first few centuries AD showing a crucified human figure with a donkey's head may have alluded to or been depicted by Sethian Gnostics
Seth is also called Set. According to Wikipedia's article on "Set (deity)": According to the article "Ass Worship" in the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia comments about Sethian gnostics: So Link #1 is the Egyptians' connection of the god Seth to the ass/donkey. Link #2 is the apparent reference in ancient graffiti depicting a crucified figure to Sethian Christian Gnosticism, mentioned above. Link #3 is Gnostic worship of "Anael"/"Onoel" (oνος, ass + el, God). Link #4 is the finding of the Sethian Gnostic "Apocalypse of Adam" among the Nag Hammadi scrolls in Egypt, a region that had the idea of the god Seth and associated it with the donkey. Link #5: In the Apocalypse of Adam, Adam tells his son "Seth" that he named Seth after another man, perhaps a heavenly prototype: This association between the Biblical Seth in the Gnostic story and another man, the seed of a "great race", suggests the concept that the Sethian Gnostic community was not stopping its Sethianism at the literal Seth the son of Adam, but rather went beyond to another "Seth", who in turn would be associated with another, greater figure like the Egyptian god Seth. In the article that I quoted in the OP, Wunsch brings the associations together and sees the Jewish Bible's respect for the Biblical Seth as connected by the Sethian Gnostics with the Egyptian mythology about the Middle Eastern god Seth. Birger Pearson in Gnosticism, Judaism, and Egyptian Christianity notes the god Seth's appearance in Greek pagan and Gnostic writings, although he theorizes that the god Seth is not the same as the Gnostic Seth, apparently because the Gnostic writings do not openly equate the two. Nonetheless, due to the significance of the god Seth for the Hellenistic Egyptian world and his appearance in the gnostic writings, it's more likely that the two figures are in fact connected somehow - like (A) the Gnostics identifying one with the other implicitly or like (B) either the god Seth being the source for the Biblical Seth or vice verse. Pearson writes: Another link is that Joan Lansberry in her essay "Sethian Gnosticism" notes that Nag Hammadi, where the Sethian "Apocalypse of Adam" was found, was known as Shenesit, named after the Acacias of the god Seth: She also notes a Coptic magical manuscript where "Seth" is associated with Christ, and Iao (referring to Yahweh) is associated with "Seth": In "THE EGYPTIAN FOUNDATIONS OF GNOSTIC THOUGHT", Daniel McBride sees echoes of the Egyptian god Seth in the role of "Seth" in The Gnostic Gospel of the Egyptians, such as Seth's association with the underworld in Egyptian mythology when the Gospel says that Seth's book was on a mountain where the sun cannot shine. He points out the concept of ogdoads in this Gnostic text, which were also a feature of Egyptian mythology: I agree with Joan Lansberry that the connection of homosexuality and Sodom and Gomorrah is not really strong enough by itself to prove a connection between the Egyptian god Seth and the Gnostic Seth. But it does look to me like there is enough circumstantial evidence to strongly show a connection between them. This is my basic answer to the OP's question. |
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Post by Dave on Feb 7, 2020 15:41:42 GMT -5
I think that the Apocalypse of Peter was not really written by Peter. One reason is that it talks about Hermas' writing as apparently being a fraud attributed to a dead man, if I read that line correctly. But in fact if the 1st century Roman Hermas was dead by the time when the Apocalypse of Peter was written, then Peter was probably dead at that point too. We know that the text was not written by Peter – From the introduction of my copy – NHL James L Robinson (Wisse CGLP translation) The Apocalypse of Peter is a pseudonymous Christian Gnostic writing that contains an account of a revelation seen by the apostle Peter and interpreted by Jesus the Savior. a pseudonymous Christian Gnostic writing pseudonymous = writing or written under a false name. This text also quotes Luke - Peter was probably dead at that point too. Before the NHL the Apocalypse of Peter was discovered on the 1880s That text is available at sacredtext.org - and is not the same document en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_of_PeterThe Greek manuscript was unknown until it was discovered during excavations initiated by Gaston Maspéro during the 1886–87 season in a desert necropolis at Akhmim in Upper Egypt. The fragment consisted of parchment leaves of the Greek version that was claimed to be deposited in the grave of a Christian monk of the 8th or 9th century.[3] The manuscript is in the Coptic Museum in Old Cairo. It is correct – and it correctly nails organized Catholic style religion IMO – 1 Thes 5:21 – test it all keep the good It does represent the mindset of the First Christians – The Jewish Christians I do quote from it Yes – some say things like The Flood of Noah was recorded first in Sumar – originally it is pagan and gets added to the Toarh I am a mindset that the Torah is without error – it is 100% completely applicable in science as well as theology – Orthodox Jews consider the Torah the template of creation It has physical real life applications – as well as – spiritual applications Multiple layers of meaning |
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Post by Dave on Feb 7, 2020 16:30:31 GMT -5
My own guess is that Adam and Eve in the story were archetypal, rather than literal, figures, although certainly there have been real people in history named Adam and Eve. The Bible doesn't specify Cain's wife's name, but in the Book of Jubilees she is called Awan. I don't have an issue with this at all - and - can also see it as two specific individuals Gen 1:24 Then God said, “Let the land bring forth living creatures according to their species—livestock, crawling creatures and wild animals, according to their species.” And it happened so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their species, the livestock according to their species, and everything that crawls on the ground, each according to its species. And God saw that it was good. 1- Adam and Ever are our ancestors – we are homo-sapiens 2- Therefore Adam and Eve were homo-sapiens 3- Each species reproduces after its own kind  4 – homo-sapiens were not the first humanoids on the planet 5- homo-sapiens also co-mingled with other humanoid types – before the flood 6- after the flood – only homo-sapiens continued – because they were saved by God (Noah) 7- after the flood – Nephilim DNA continues to plague Israel – Rephiem 8 – after the flood – this Nephilim DNA allows the possession by – ‘other gods’ In ancient days – the Kings were the interface between these ‘other gods’ and man Today – they are the 13 families that rule the world – manipulated by these same ‘other gods’ 9- 640 AD Mohmand gathered up all the ‘other gods’ – place them in the Kabal and declared Allah was the supreme leader of all these ‘other gods’ 10- ancient Israel surrounde4d by enemies that worship these ‘other gods’ –today- modern Israel is surrounded by enemies that worship Allah the supreme leader of all these ‘other gods’ |
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