The 4 Messengers of the Presence (Archangels)

[Seeker of the Truth]

Shalaamu friends,
    In the Scriptures (or Bible), nameless messengers (or angels) are mentioned often. Only two are named: Michael (מיכאל Daniel 10:13, v. 21, 12:1; Μιχαὴλ Jude 1:9, Revelation 12:7; ميكىل Quran 2:98) and Gabriel (גבריאל Daniel 8:16, 9:21; Γαβριὴλ Luke 1:19, Luke 1:26; جبريل Quran 2:97 and v. 98, 66:4). However, early Christianity and Judaism attests to more names of angels, and give each their own duty. The "Ethiopic" Apocalypse of Enoch (which I consider to be Scripture) names two others: Raphael (evidently רפאל in Hebrew) and Uriel/Phanuel (אוריאל for the former, and most likely Penuel פנואל for the latter; connected to the place name Penuel/Peniel of Genesis 32:30?). He (Enoch) names them alongside the common Michael (מיכאל) and Gabriel (גבריאל). What are their purposes in the Heaven of heavens?

In 1 Enoch ("Ethiopic" Apocalypse of Enoch) 40:9, the angel of peace answered Enoch about his inquiry into this matter. He says:

"'This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel."

(1) Enoch 40:9 -- R. H. Charles

    The second chief messenger (or archangel), Raphael, is in charge of all the sickness and wounds of mankind (his name, as a matter of fact, means "El heals" [רפאל]). The third, Gabriel, rules over the powers probably of Heaven (thence his name גבריאל meaning "strength of El"). In the previous verses (especially verse 2), we hear that these angels (Michael, Gabriel, Raphael and Uriel/Phanuel) do surround the throne of the Lord of Spirits. The name of Phanuel is also Uriel, as is given in 1 Enoch 9:1, and especially in 72:1 as the messenger who gives Enoch the secrets of the courses of the heavenly luminaries (i.e. sun, moon and stars). Hence his name Uriel, "light of El" (because of his rule over the stars).

    The names Michael, Gabriel, Raphael and Uriel (sometimes Sariel שריאל, Phanuel being unique to 1 Enoch) are popular in apocryphal data. It is Raphael who appears to Tobijah (or Tobit) in the book of Tobit. Uriel appears in extra-Biblical New Testament literature. All 4 of them appear side by side in Christian and Jewish mystical literature (e.g. Qabbalah, Merqabah; if I remember correctly, Gnosticism also). So their existence can hardly be doubted. So here they are again, with their names etymologically defined:

1. Michael (Hebrew מיכאל Mīyḵāʔēl < Ancient Hebrew *מיכאל Mīykaʔil < *מנכאל Minkaʔil, "Who is like El?" from *מי < מן "who," כ "like" and אל "El/God")
2. Gabriel (Hebrew גבריאל Gaḇrīyʔēl < Ancient Hebrew *גבראל Gabriʔil "strength of El," from גבר "be strong" and אל "El/God")
3. Rephael (Hebrew רפאל Rəfāʔēl < Ancient Hebrew vocalization *Rapaʔil "El heals," from רפא "to heal" and אל "El/God")
4. Uriel (Hebrew אוריאל ʔŪwrīyʔēl < Ancient Hebrew *אראל ʔŪriʔil "light of El," from *אור < אר "light" and אל "El/God")

    The secondary name of 4 in 1 Enoch, i.e. Phanuel, is Hebrew פנואל Pənūwʔēl < Ancient Hebrew *פנאל Panuʔil (hence Greek transliteration Φανουηλ Phanouel) meaning "face of El," from *פנה < פני "face" and אל "El/God."

Blessings to you in peace.
Shalaamu

-- Seitz (הלתואם Hal-Tawʔam)

[Seeker of the Truth]

Hey Dave, is this the right place to put this thread?

[Dave]

The correct answer is - anywhere is the correct place to post anything - participation is never incorrect



Much common ground here - I am so amaze at the number of people that yern to believe in ghost and other paranormal phenomena, but refuse to believe in spirits. This is just a part of the Cold War of miss-information and plausible deniability campaign waged against humanity by am opposition force. Paul could not be more specific about the spiritual war wages against us in Eph 6.

This is a fundamental error that has slipped its way into Christendom. Ancient man - right up to the 1700s or so - accepted a reality filled with other spirits. Both angelic and demonic. The idea of multiple gods waring with one another was not imaginary. In fact ancient man saw himself trapped within the conflict between the gods. However, today this has all been relegated to myth and fantasy. The whole Roman "feel good" application of the Gospel totally ignores the reality of the opposition side of Gods creation.

I almost said the dark side of God's creation - but that doesn't actually represent the Gnostic cosmology

There are two basic paradigms established. TOV and RA (Hebrew - I am not a linguist)
This was the testing of Adam and Eve immediately from the beginning - know the TOV and RA - or obey
Gen 3:15 reinforces the contest between the two paradigms - and introduces the serpent's seed (another overlooked spiritual/hybred group)

God has established both sides of these paradigms
Every Judeo-Christian teach says God created everything, nothing was made that He did make
Isa 45:7-8 God declares that He made both the TOV and the RA
Yet, not one Roman Christian will admit that God made the RA

As someone who recognizes the value of Enoch - you have to also realize that the scale of the RA side of the equation is more populated than modern Romanology allows. Yet, Romonology remains the only recognize authority in the area of demonology. Curious?

Gnostic cosmology is caused of being "too metaphysical" - but it is simply the semantics of our vocabularies that keep our understanding away from common ground.

I would lover to further explore your understanding of the angelic/spiritual hierarchy and implication

Clarification - communication of ideas cross culturally is impossible if we do have the same reference.
A discussion of the angelic side of the spiritual reality is comfortable in today's vocabulary
But a discussion of the other side of the paradigm is damaged by the centuries of Roman demonology
Islam have the Djinn - Paul might have called them powers and principalities - the Gnostic have the Archon = the serpent's seed

Christian Lucifer is Roman mythology - satan is a verb, not a noun - and neither of these are the beast

[Dave]

their existence can hardly be doubted - agree

From Enoch - I read that the heavens are full of beings
Christendom calls them angels - as a Gnostic I am open to MUCH BROADER interpretation

4 Messengers of the Presence (Archangels) - are there only 4 - or only 4 we are told about
and ARCH-angels - from the Greek ARCHON - ruling, governing, controlling, in charge of, many other (lesser - not archon) angels. The Catholics have 9 different categories of angels - Arch, Cherubs, 'powers' and 'principalities'

As we read Enoch - or other Gnostic text (non-Roman) - many of these 'messengers' have galactic responsibilities - tending to the stars and orbits, etc.

This is at the heart of Gnosticism - I chose this terminology for myself to deliberately separate myself from Roman Christendom - an attempt to move away from man's religion and toward YHWY and I seek that 'primal theology' that gave rise to them all. But, since I have taken this designation; everyone wants to group me with every 1st century Gnostic concept. However, as I aim to defend myself, I find that much of Gnosticism is closer to that primal theology than Rome ever could be.

There are several angelic discussion I would love to have.

1 The Gnostic Demiurge Gnosticism is bashed for it's creator angel. Yet, from Enoch we see that many angels have galactic duties.

For me - 'el and 'elohym are different. El is the Creator, but the 'elohym are a group of beings, sometimes angels (messengers), sometimes rulers, sometimes judges, we are just a little lower than 'elohym NOT El

Genesis says that 'elohym did all of the creating - was this El alone, or a group effort. In which case, someone was helping. Not necessarily helping YHWY, because YHWY needs help, but because El assigned duties to the members of the 'elohym that performed the deeds.

Am I saying that a Demiurge is a necessary component of modern cosmology? NO
I think it just an argument over semantics and vocabulary But I neither find it threatening to the bulk of the literature and it would NOT distract from the personage of the Creator


Rome

[Dave]

2 Uriel

From: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uriel
"Uriel is listed as the fourth angel in Christian Gnostics (under the name Phanuel), by Gregory the Great, and in the angelology of Pseudo-Dionysius. However, the Book of Enoch clearly distinguishes the two Angels; Uriel means "the Light of God" while Phanuel means "the Face of God". Uriel is the third angel listed in the Testament of Solomon, the fourth being Sabrael.

Uriel appears in the Second Book of Esdras[3] found in the Biblical apocrypha (called Esdras IV in the Vulgate) in which the prophet Ezra asks God a series of questions, and Uriel is sent by God to instruct him."

What I know of Uriel is that this Archangel appears in the Book of Esdras -

Canonicity - more wiki
"All Christians and Jews consider Ezra and Nehemiah to be canonical. Jews, Roman Catholics, and Protestants do not generally recognize 1 Esdras and 2 Esdras as being canonical. Eastern Orthodox generally consider 1 Esdras to be canonical, but not 2 Esdras. The Jewish Apocalypse of Ezra is part of the Syriac and Ethiopian traditions and in the Apocrypha of the Armenian Church."

Roman Catholics??

As someone perusing Gnostic cosmology - what I have studied of Uriel is = in Eastern Orthodox text - and I have come to value the Eastern Christians for wanting to preserve information instead of banning it.

Does Uriel = Phanuel - I do not know - this has not been the focus of my studies to date. However, let say this - A Rose by any other name smell as sweet. Some people call the Creator God, other spell it G-d out of respect. Some say the Lord, some say Jehovah, - it matters not

Do I know the exact detail of the "unseen realm"? - NO WAY

But I accept enough of it to embrace multiple localities of reality / multiple dimension filled with life forms - which makes Uriel more real and more acceptable to me - than not


3 The Four Faces

Now this is an interesting theme - and hopefully I didn't miss the point of your question

Ezek 1 - 4 beings with 4 faces each

Do the 4 being represent the 4 Archangels - ?? But Ezekiel saw (in a vision) 4 and each had 4 faces.

The Gnostic take on this - is the number 4 significant ? YES - just for the point that it embraces multidimensionality. The 4 represent the dimension relative to man - the 3D we exist as and the 1D we think of as the place of heaven and hell. We are 3, but there is more to reality.

The 4 faces - man, lion, ox, and eagle
(I am sitting here at work and do not have my references at hand) BUT
I am also under the impression that Hebrew tradition also places these same four faces around Mount Sinai as Moses spoke with God.
Fundamental Christians see these same four faces in the 'Camp of Israel" Numbers 2-3 imagery

What does this mean to me? As you have already noticed, I see scripture a little differently than most.

If these four faces tell us anything about the unseen realm and the Creator - then why is 1/4 of the imagery - AN UNCLEAN ANIMAL?

Some people say (not my study) that America is the long lost tribe of Dan - thus the American Eagle
Yet, scripture tells us that the symbol/banner of the tribe of Dan is the image of a serpent Genesis 49:17

1/4th of the Chrube that flank the throne = an eagle - wrong
1/4th of the Cherub that flank the throne = a serpent (Genesis 49:17)

I wish someone could explain to me how the symbol for the tribe of Dan morphed from a serpent to an eagle

These four faces do not bring meaning to me - they confuse me

[Dave]

4 GENDER

Gender is a part of the Gnostic cosmology - brief summary
As I understand it - most ancient cultures understood their gods to be male, but the thoughts of those gods as female
The Roman Male only club is not a complete theology

God (singular) said let (US) make man in (OUR) image and the rest of the sentence goes - Male and Female
Zech 5:9 - 2 female angels
The Hebrew concept of - Shekhinah

Roman Christendom redacts NT scripture in Cor and Tim where Paul says - WOMEN are to quite inside the church. How can they claim to adhere to the word of God if they go around redacting parts they don't like. Gnostic scripture has the solution for these Roman Christian's but they refuse to read the Gospel of Thomas.

Gnostic gender assignments
Father, Creator - androgynous
The female aspect - Shekhinah, spirit, Holy Spirit, the Comforter, that which will teach us - Gnostic Goddess of Wisdom, Sophia ---- again it is all the same ROSE
The male aspect - Christ, Melchizedek?

Gabriel

Gabriel - male (Gabe - riel) - Roman cosmology
Gabriel - female - (Gab - briel) - argument for
We know that some angels are female - Zech
Gabriel is always the angel that announced babies

Middle ages Catholic bedtime stories included the story of the female angel Gabriel sitting inside the womb for 9 months guiding the development of a child. (folklore - reference available)

Some argue - that when Gabriel announced the birth of Jesus to Mary - Mary would have never interacted with a MALE angel - but was more relaxed in the presence of a female angel

Does it matter if Gabriel is male or female - not to me
Does it have anything at all to do with salvation - NO
Am I embracing this as a must be - no
Would I think someone in error for using this vocabulary - NO - again it is that ROSE thing

Tag your it!