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Post by Dave on Jun 6, 2013 23:41:10 GMT -5
James wrote in the New Testament that if you turned your life over to Christ, it will reflect in your works. Could this also be true of a religion movement, a group of believers, or a church? During the reign of Pope Alexander VI, 1492-1503, clean living pious priest were a very small minority indeed. The great majority kept mistresses and indulged in every sort of vice. One calls to mind the entertainment given by Borgia Pope, Alexander VI. On one occasion, for his guest’ amusement, he engaged one hundred of Rome’s most beautiful prostitutes, had them strip them naked in his ballroom and copulate with his men-in-arms. He offered valuable prizes for the couples who performed in the most lascivious positions, while his daughter, Lucretia, and other ladies from his court looked on and applauded. (From: Dennis Wheatley, The Devil and all His Works, 1971, pg 182, American Heritage Press) Praise the LordAttachments:
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 4, 2013 19:51:30 GMT -5
That is shocking.
The church went through a dark period. God is not to be mocked, so we will all pay for these crimes, as we are now paying in part. The dark ages of the church began with Constantine (IMO). Not that Constantine was particularly bad, although he did have his wife and son killed within a year after Nicaea; but that he represented a new direction for the church in general. The church had effectively left the Apostolic age. The atrocities we continued to see (and still see) are fruits of this departure. It is a little bit like the time after Solomon's death, when the nation of Israel was divided. The unity of the nation was forever gone. That age of unity was over, and many bad leaders emerged to profane God's holiness. The church has gone through a similar period of demise, and we are still in it.
God Bless
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Post by Dave on Aug 5, 2013 2:22:39 GMT -5
The church went through a dark period. God is not to be mocked, so we will all pay for these crimes, as we are now paying in part. The dark ages of the church began with Constantine (IMO). I agree that Nicaea was a major turning point in Christianity. It was at this point when the division between Eastern Orthodox and Roman Christendom was born. Over 360 Bishops attended that Council, but of those in attendances, only 5 were from Rome. However the Roman Church and the Roman State became inter mingled. Before Constantine 10% of his empire was Christian. By the time of his death 90% were Christian. The marriage between church and state was as much about unifying the empire politically as it was unifying the church. Before Nicaea the center of Christianity was in Alexandria Egypt, after Nicaea it moved to Rome. Within another 125 years the Eastern Orthodox Church completely withdrew from Roman Christendom. The Eastern Orthodox Church had the first school of theology formed in 95 AD. They had a 6 language interlinear Bible open to the public by 200 AD. Saved every religious document they could get their hands on and invented the Monastic lifestyle. Up until today they have had 119 Popes and have been to war with no one. Rome on the other hand has had 267 Popes. Waged a war against Jews and Muslims for more than 1000 years, and Led an Inquisition against other Christians for another 200 years. Forbid any religious books except their own and burnt many ancient texts. Forbid the common man from reading the Bible; and has become a world power with its own World Bank, military staff, and political diplomats. To say, “… and many bad leaders emerged to profane God's holiness. The church has gone through a similar period of demise, and we are still in it.” Is an understatement. It is for these reasons, and many more, that I declare myself a Gnostic. Not that I belong to some cultish faction, but to state that I endorse neither Roman Catholic Christendom or its Protestant child. The Church I seek is the Body of Christ that requires no labels, no buildings, and no government other than the leadership of the Holy Spirit.
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Post by Richard on Aug 5, 2013 11:04:33 GMT -5
www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/07/who-am-i-to-judge-francis-redefines-the-papacy.html#entry-moreEven the latest Catholic news does a disservice to the Christian faith. Just exactly how can the compromise of political correctness be interpreted as a suitable replacement for scriptural submission. But then again, Rome has been the leader in scriptural compromise since 325 AD. Exodus 20:4 (KJV) “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.” Rome has been led by unmarried men who don’t even qualify to be Elders within the Church. 1st Timothy 3:2 (KJV) “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, …” Following Christ has nothing to do with ‘being a good guy’ or being ‘politically correct, even if it does bend religion into a more secular acceptable social club. Does it strengthen the faith, or increase our respect for the Catholic Church and the Pope; if even he is unwilling to take a stand? Sometimes the correct opinion isn't the correct opinion. Sacrifice the faithful to appease the masses. Attachments:
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Post by Virginia on Aug 5, 2013 11:08:58 GMT -5
I just saw this morning on CNN that the Vatican is purchasing as many hospitals in the state of Washington as possible. The ACLU is trying to stop them. The Vatican is purchasing hospitals big or small. The ACLU is not happy because this means no abortions or sterilizations will be allowed to be performed in these hospitals.
They did not say if the Vatican is buying other hospitals in other states but I suspect they are. There is no real reason that Washington was singled out.
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Post by Richard on Aug 5, 2013 12:15:15 GMT -5
Washington State -or - DC?
DC I presume, but isn't it a mixed back of doctrine. It is OK to be gay, even gay within the Vatican; but damn you if you have an abortion.
Don't misunderstand, I am personally against both! I am just saying that it seems as if the Vatican is playing both sides of social morality.
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Post by Virginia on Aug 5, 2013 18:28:06 GMT -5
The Pope on his visit to Brazil said it is not up to him to judge gays. I thought this was just a cover up for gay priests.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 5, 2013 19:19:40 GMT -5
To say, “… and many bad leaders emerged to profane God's holiness. The church has gone through a similar period of demise, and we are still in it.” Is an understatement. It is for these reasons, and many more, that I declare myself a Gnostic. Not that I belong to some cultish faction, but to state that I endorse neither Roman Catholic Christendom or its Protestant child. The Church I seek is the Body of Christ that requires no labels, no buildings, and no government other than the leadership of the Holy Spirit. I agree with your sentiments of why you would want to distance yourself from these dark ages of Christendom. What I have been trying to align is the providence of God. God knows the wicked paths we will take, and He knows those who would walk a crooked line. We are placed within a backdrop wherein God has ordained governments and kings (Romans 13:1), as well as churches and leaders (the seven churches of Asia minor - Rev 2 & 3). These dark times are not a surprise to God, so I don't want to act like this is my first dance when my partner (God) has already been around a block or two. God knows what He is doing with the churches, even though He may ultimately reject many of them. All of these conditions within the backdrop of historical events help to identify what our own metal is. We are all separated into sheep and goats, wheat and weeds. The backdrop is the seducing principal which draws us into an evil age. Our responses are also being tested, as God wants us to be solid and trustworthy amongst an evil age. If we use this evil age as an excuse to become evil ourselves, or even apathetic or careless, then we are identifying our own metal as being unworthy. God knows what He is doing. God's objective sees far into the future. God is seeking a Kingdom from among mankind to rule with His Son. We are all tested to this end. God Bless Steve
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 5, 2013 19:37:34 GMT -5
I just saw this morning on CNN that the Vatican is purchasing as many hospitals in the state of Washington as possible. This is interesting. The Catholic church leaders are expert business men, and they know where the money is. That has been a long term signature of Catholicism, and all other copycat religions. Health Care is the new oil; particularly for the elderly. Catholics are well aware of the financial gains to be received in this growing market. I personally think of the catholic hierarchy as a form of the anti-christ. I don't mean to impute evil to all catholics by saying this, or to think that catholics are not saved. I think they can be saved and be extremely exemplary. The institution, however, has a distinct goal of competing in the economic and political world. It has dirty (bloody) hands. It has deceived the world about the nature of Christianity, and it has set the standard for all other christians to follow in a dark path (institutionally). That path has been diabolical. It has confused the world about what a christian is, and what the church is. Saying that..., I am not against Catholics, as they were not to blame for becoming ideological slaves during a dark time. If the catholic is truly christian then they will address any hypocrisy in their personal lives. That is what we all must do, regardless of our spiritual branding. Protestants have the exact same requirements over them. Our branding is not so important; it is our lives before God that is important as we attempt to follow our only King: Jesus. Religion often makes this requirement very clouded; but it is not impossible. It is harder for a rich man to enter heaven; it is not impossible. God Bless Steve
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Post by Virginia on Aug 5, 2013 21:23:54 GMT -5
I know most catholics are good people but I feel the Vatican and also individual churches have let their followers down.
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Post by Dave on Aug 6, 2013 2:02:38 GMT -5
There are several possible sides to the earthly church phenomena - i.e. Roman Christendom - i.e. organised religion in general.
1. The church is basically good, it tries to do God's work here on earth, it just has been damaged by the carnal weaknesses of the men that run the church. So, we could say that the church is basically good, but it has bad people in it.
2. Or - the church has been usurped by Satan and is in the business of preaching the false message and forcing itself into the center of world dominance and control. The Unitarian Church is a big movement in America, yet they do not believe that Jesus was God, or in the virgin birth, or in the resurrection. Look christiany, but is NOT in my opinion. Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses also wouldn't get a good review from me as well. All Christian looking, but all preaching a false message.
3. Or - God has deliberately allowed the corruption of the church for a better purpose. I have an issue with Christians that sign up for the program but never mature. Perhaps, we are meant to come to Christianity through the church, but then as we mature, we have to leave organised religion behind and move on to something more personal than just a club membership.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 6, 2013 19:33:53 GMT -5
3. Or - God has deliberately allowed the corruption of the church for a better purpose. I have an issue with Christians that sign up for the program but never mature. Perhaps, we are meant to come to Christianity through the church, but then as we mature, we have to leave organized religion behind and move on to something more personal than just a club membership. I believe this has always been the case for God's people. The Israelites are a clear example of this. God had punished His own people many times, and only 7000 were considered faithful alongside Elijah. God is not confused about His plan - this is His plan. It is through the profound challenges that we go through that we are war-tested to become complete. The deception of the world, and the church, is the battleground. Judges 3:1 says: "Here's a list of nations that the LORD caused to remain in order to test Israel (that is, everyone who had not gained any battle experience in Canaan)."God uses those churches, nations and experiences to teach us to battle against spiritual forces. Paul tells us that our battle is not against flesh and blood - it is a much larger battlefield - and we must become battle prepared. This sorts out the weak from the strong. The battles that the church presents us will either make us weaker or stronger. We will either find our feat or we will loose them. The church is not our enemy; it is our battleground. It is where we sink or swim. We will either find fault with the church and runaway, or we will see that it is the place God is using to equip us with spiritual discernment in battle. The deceptions and distractions are great, but this is what God has chosen to equip us and train us - particularly those who are to rule the universe with Christ. All challenges are for the task of training us in discernment as spiritual warriors in all things. As we are deep within the time of the end, our first task is just to survive. We hide in caves, like Micah did during the hunt for Elijah. Jesus withdrew with the apostles. It is not wrong to withdraw if it for the purpose of remaining strong. In doing so we will find others of like-mind who are also confused about the nature of the battle, but who also wish to remain faithful. This is a great day!!! Many will be called out of the church when the persecution becomes more entrenched, which I believe will be relatively soon. They will also come to the caves and hide among the wild beasts. God has a plan for us, but we must await God's timing. That is the hard part, naturally, but it is what God has been training us for. We must be prepared to love christians of every denomination, including Jehovah's Witnesses, as the church is equally deceived in all of its brandings. Some will want to hold onto their branding, like the Hebrew christians wished to maintain their branding in Galatia. Others will abandon all such brandings and simply follow Christ as we once did with Paul directing us. Everyone must choose for themselves. Nevertheless... It is a great day!!! God Bless Steve
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Post by Dave on Aug 7, 2013 0:57:16 GMT -5
We must be prepared to love christians of every denomination, including Jehovah's Witnesses, as the church is equally deceived in all of its brandings.Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. Charles Taze Russell the founder of the Jehovah's Witness movement predicted the end of the world would happen in 1914. Oops - OK - change that to 1918 - Oops - change that to 1925. It did not end. His successor 'The General' preached a millions man ministry through the 20s and 30s which proclaimed that million alive then would never experience a physical death - instead million of men alive then would experience the rapture. Oops! Now here in America, much of the 'feel good' Christian attitude is aimed at making people nice and tolerant of one another. If I love you therefore I am nice to you. Jesus was neither tolerant or nice to the Pharisees of his day. He kicked over the tables selling goods at the temple. He told the Pharisees to their face that they were vipers and corrupters of the scriptures. I love the Jehovah's Witness and I always welcome them into my home, but usually they cannot leave fast enough. Most don't even know their own church history. When I show them their church history and ask them to comment on Deuteronomy 18:22 they just usually leave. Some times God's love is ruthless and merciless - Tough Love as it were! If I saw a man dedicating his life to a Satanic church, should I be warm and friendly in the spirit of tolerance? Or should I 'love them' by doing my best to help them see the error of their ways? "Our Masonic friends have it down very fine. I do not know where they got it so well. I have often wondered where they found out so many of the secrets of our High and Accepted Order of Masonry." Charles T Russell quotes Charles Taze Russell's tombstone located at: Plot #5591, MASONIC WAY, Rosemont United Cemetery, Pittsburgh, PA. Attachments:
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 7, 2013 23:57:40 GMT -5
Some times God's love is ruthless and merciless - Tough Love as it were! Yes. The JW's will be difficult to love for most christians. They are very much like the wayward Essenes of Jesus' day. Catholics are like the Pharisees; Protestants are like the Sadducee's. The great mix of pollution within Christendom is alarming, but it is there, like it or not. I do not say that all are equally saved. I don't think the right doctrine itself even saves a person... " You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that —and shudder." I try not to get into these types of conversations, because it can be very divisive. Ever since the days of Arius we were willing to kill those who disagreed with orthodoxy. I think orthodoxy went when that attitude came in. JW's are just another form of Arianism. I don't think they are right; but they are probably more genuine and respectful than many other "orthodox" faiths. The end-times will probably do away with such labels. You will either be christian or not. God Bless Steve
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Post by Dave on Aug 8, 2013 1:23:00 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree.
Do you know what the JW believe? - or better yet - Do you know what the Mormons believe?
Mormons teach that Jehovah is only one of many of a race of space gods and his home is on a planet in the constellation of Pleiades. Christ and Satan are twin brothers of equal rank and the children of Satan are born in black human bodies.
I don't find it hard to Love these guys - My love for them requires me to attempt to rescue them. Don't misunderstand, I am not engaged in any type of evangelism, that is not my calling - but when face to face with paganism - I defend my faith! In the process they may NOT see me as tolerant or accepting to their beliefs.
If Satan came out tomorrow and said, here I am come follow me; the choice would be to obvious. Instead Satan says, the Big Bang and Evolution are more correct than scripture so lets all join the pseudo-christian church so we don't have to feel guilty for being sinners.
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