Incremental Creation Theory

[Dave]

Incremental Creation
An academic circumspection
David Freed MLS (ASCP)cm
February 16th, 2011

Just how tight do we hold to our views of Biblical Creation?

There are still fundamentalist that cling to six 24-hour days. These believers would say that God is so amazingly powerful - ALL POWERFUL – OMNIPOTENT – that creating everything in six days is well within God’s ability. I was taught this on Sunday. Wasn’t everyone? When I was younger and open to the mythology, the omnipotent explanation was easy to swallow. However, filled with the cynicism that lingers from the years of “church;” even this explanation seems to contradict itself.

If God is omnipotent then why did it take him 24hrs to do a days worth of creating? Seems like someone omnipotent could have done it all in a fraction of a millisecond, with time to spare. To suggest that it took omnipotent God six whole days, is actually suggesting that God was dragging it out for some reason. An Omnipotent God could have done everything in six nanoseconds. So, I ask:

When God performed his creative day, did it all happen in the first nanosecond of the day; or did some things happen after breakfast, and a few more after lunch, then Dinner and evening, and so on? Incremental creation allows God to perform His creative miracles in a progressive manor that is later rediscovered by man. However, in an attempt to leave God out of the picture, this progressive manner is misunderstood as evolution.

Bible and science are just two different perspectives of the same event, to which, they both witness. Remember, any one perspective, even biblical, never contains the entire truth, but all points to a central truth.

Full paper found at:
ponderingconfusion.com/papers.php?id=increment

[Dave]

Sept 29, 2020 13:13:36 GMT -5 @robertt said:

However, when GOD created our universe for mankind, the matter in it was all tov.
No plants died.
No sharks ate other fish, they were vegetarian sharks.
Lions ate grass, they were vegetarian.
Spiders trapped pollen and suck plant juices.
Mossies suck plant juices.
Plucking flowers did not cause them to die, or decay.
The ground was reddish brown, not black in colour.
The oxygen levels would have been higher.
No UV radiation existed.
The sun is powered by musical frequencies on water, not as modern science claims.
Plant roots ate only minerals directly from ground, via bacteria free living there.
There was no dead organic matter. No weeds either.
There was no friction either, Adam and Eve were carried by the wings of the HS as they moved or walked about, they did not move as humans move now, using friction.
Umbra shadows did not exist, only pre-umbra shadows existed.
All trees bore fruits ever month.
There were 12 seasons per year. I suppose the earth took 360 days to go perfectly circular around the sun. The atmosphere was much thicker. No rain ever fell. No snow ever existed. No salt water ever existed. All fish had kidneys to cope with fresh water.

I was hoping to have an intelligent conversation with you
THIS IS NOT IT
This is the most kindergarten thing I have even heard

Now if you wish to have support for some of these weird idea, Creation Science

Ken Hamm is the biggest embarrassment to Christianity of our time
If anyone ever wanted to “DOUBT” the Bible – one trip to his institute is all it takes
Standing there looking at the exhibits- even the smallest children know it is a joke

Ken Hamms debate against Bill Nye was the worst witness for the faith possible
Bill Nye – who has made a career speaking science made Ken Hamm look stupid on national television
Dr Walters Browns Flood theory does not fit alongside any other science
His theory is correct – only if – a lot of other long held view are wrong His theory does not blend into the pool of knowledge man has gathered over the centuries –
He also rejects the idea that the earth has expanded – always same diameter
No one support him
And anyone with a brain – sees the creation institute an organization designed to harm the faith – not support it

[Deleted]

Instead, the fossil record actually indicates that the different species: began independently and suddenly, lived without changing, and then died out. The evidence clearly established that species: do not share a common ancestor. Missing links for any species have never been found; instead, the different species began independently, in sporadic increments throughout our past.

nice

Each individual must Ponder their own conclusions. My point here is not to prove a correlation between scripture and science. However, it is my mission to show that these two warring factions, scripture and science, are not in conflict with one another.

nice  Gerald Schroeder points this out for example, a great speaker

Your paper Dave is brief....


spiritualsprings.org/ss-1127.htm

My paper:

One can predict within the genome of each species in a kind, to have exactly the same Miyn segments of code, that is unique to each kind, thus defining scientifically the term of "kind" at a genetics level. The reason why Science has not found a definition for "kind" is because the Miyn segments have not been studied


My conclusion

Natural Aven Evolution does not exist. Only as science gets smart enough are we seeing a rise in Intelligent Designed Aven Evolution, which we call in science Genetically Modifed Organisms (GMO). Such engineering is dangerous and defiles GOD's original design. In fact some say GMO means God Move Over, and allow human Intelligent Designers in. We have assumed Genetic Engineering is child's play and all things are easily understood, and one day we will engineer biological new forms of life, which will create chaos on the earth and lead to our very extinction.

USA should ban GMO development.


Shalom

[Dave]

Sept 18, 2021 15:38:00 GMT -5 @robertt said:

Rather than mock my mention of time, you do not mention your view of time, only that you twist time based on different frames of reference.

D"Time does not matter - is a stupid argument - Time is not linear

R" Well if time does not matter, why do science videos present it so much Dave?

1 billion years per day - or 6000 years per day - or 24hrs a day or 2 seconds per day
ARE ALL EQUALLY POSSIBLE DEPENDENT UPON THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE VIEWER

ARGUMENTS OF TIME ARE STUPID AND JUST A DISTRACTION

R" Well if time does not matter, why do science videos present it so much Dave?
BECAUSE THE REAL FACT IS THE ORDER
Every evolutionist on the planet agrees – Day 1 then Day 2 than Day 3 then Day 4 then Day 5 than Day 6 and here we are man

LET’S DISCUSS CREATION – NOT A FLAWED SCIENTIFIC MATH PROBLEM!

R" What did Dave? The Noachian Flood? took 440 days of linear time.
Happened within Day 7

The Genesis Creation ? took 6 literal days of linear time.
From God’s perspective – NOT man’s
man wasn't even here to witness it according to you

So what confusing ideas are you presenting? You even introduce gap time? What is that?
LET’S DISCUSS CREATION – NOT A FLAWED SCIENTIFIC MATH PROBLEM!

D"The only voice arguing linear time is a Creationist – just so you can mock it
R" DO you even understand the relativity of time?
LET’S DISCUSS CREATION – NOT A FLAWED SCIENTIFIC MATH PROBLEM!

So the science speaks of millions of years of relative time? What does that mean? So they say the dinosaur is millions of years old? Now that is not a relativity statement?
Time yields order
LET’S DISCUSS CREATION – NOT A FLAWED SCIENTIFIC MATH PROBLEM!

DISCUSS THE REAL FACTS -THE ORDER

Gen 1:20 Then God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures!
Life began in the waters
Let flying creatures fly above the land across the expanse of the sky.”
2 arguments – (1) fossil dragon flies with wingspan of 12 feet – insectoids than live on the water – millions of examples today (2) fossilized flying fish might be a defense of predator mechanism – like a chicken flight – yes but more like a large leap

Gen 1:21 Then God created the large sea creatures
Yes – the fossil record says – small first then some leviathan / behemoth in size

and every living creature that crawls, with which the water swarms,
Amphibians? Water and land.

as well as every winged flying creature
Fossil record says flying fish first

Gen 1:22 Then God blessed them by saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the water in the seas.
The life cycle was in full swing – birth-life-death- and rebirth

Let the flying creatures multiply on the land.”
Is this a scientific fact or what?

Gen 1:23 So there was evening and there was morning—a fifth day.
Gen 1:24 Then God said, “Let the land bring forth living creatures according to their species

—livestock, crawling creatures and wild animals,
Land animals - wild animals

Gen 1:25 the livestock according to their species,
Livestock

and everything that crawls on the ground, each
YES – land animals in their diversity appeared last

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man
Man came last
I say Gen 1 man is an animal of dust and the fossil record says in possible 6-8 different forms

Science says – the genetic pool was reduced to only Homo sapiens
Scripture says -
Gen 6:7 So Adonai said, “I will wipe out humankind, whom I have created, from the face of the ground, from humankind to livestock, crawling things and the flying creatures of the sky, because I regret that I made them.”
Gen 6:8 But Noah found favor in Adonai’s eyes.

THE ORDER IS NOT IN DISAGREEMENT

WE SHOULD BE DISCUSSING - according to their species,
Why do creationist not want to discuss the order?

The fossil record validates the Biblical order – the Biblical order validates scripture
But Instead of falling prostrate before the Lord in amazement and praise

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. In unrighteousness they suppress the truth,
Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse—
Rom 1:21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. Instead, their thinking became futile, and their senseless hearts were made dark.
Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools.
Rom 1:23 They exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image in the form of mortal man and birds and four-footed beasts and creeping things.

The argument about time is stupid and meaningless
You say 6 24 hr days – science says 13 billion years – scripture suggest 1 day = 1000 years
THEY ARE ALL CORRECT FROM THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVES

TO ARGUE TIME IS A DISTRACTION

THE #1 DISCUSSION SHOULD BE - according to their species.
Darwin wrote within his own theory – “that the lack of “intermediary Species” was the biggest problem with his presentation – but hoped the further development of the ‘New Science” of Paleontology would prove him correct” (documentation available – I just need to dig – ask, and I will)

Paleontology has not proven him correct – instead of one species growing and changing to evolve into something new – the fossil record demonstrates for all to see – species appeared – reproduced only (according to their species.) – then died out (extinction)

The fossil record validates scripture – not Darwin
Every Creationist should believe this – not argue against it


THE #2 DISCUSSION SHOULD BE – cause
Where does Don Patton give the credit to God?
Without giving the credit to God – new theories must appear to suggest things like
MACROSTASIS – things just appeared out of the blue with no pre-forms – in large numbers

(wiki)Pre-Cambrian explosion
The Cambrian explosion or Cambrian radiation was an event approximately 541 million years ago in the Cambrian period when practically all major animal phyla started appearing in the fossil record.

Every Creationist should believe this – not argue against it

GOD DID IT – EACH STEP WAS GOD’s HAND – ONE INCREMENT AT A TIME – ONE SPECIES AT A TIME
The only people arguing linear time are Creationist – and they know it is a false argument
This is why it is a harmful message – it teaches error which only hurts the faith!

The CORRECT ARGUMENT is to teach these government funded scientist what it is they actually validate – scripture – the word of God – and they would all bow to the Lord

But Christendom is not even preaching /witnessing to them – they are making them the enemy

The Creation Institute forces you to choose sides

Gnostic Christianity says – wake up – recognize what is in your sight - scripture alive all around us
What Joy – what Praise – How reassuring – validation – Scripture is real – God is real

INSTEAD – you want to argue time

Attachments:

[Deleted]

Dave says" The CORRECT ARGUMENT is to teach these government funded scientist what it is they actually validate – scripture – the word of God – and they would all bow to the Lord.

youtu.be/87E8bQrX4Wg

Millions of years ago this dinosaur was going about it's daily normal life.

First sentence of your simple video for children, like me, the National Museum. Explain to me how this video supports your above statement? It doesn't?

D"government funded scientist what it is they actually validate – scripture – the word of God

R" The science video here does NOT validate Scripture at all. Job is not a million years old.

Marco Polo also saw dinosaurs in China, in 11th century AD.


Inca People also played with Dinosaurs about 4,000 years ago.

So how does this video validate the Bible?

How would you word the first sentence?

Shalom

[Dave]

THE #1 DISCUSSION SHOULD BE - according to their species.
Every evolutionist agrees with the fossil record – species seem to appear – life – and die out
You fall for natural selection – it is just evolution speak

THE #2 DISCUSSION SHOULD BE – Cause

The #3 DISCUSSION SHOULD BE – Order
Every evolutionist agrees with the Biblical order of creation Day 1 then Day 2, then Day 3 Day 3, then Day 4, then Day 5, Then Day 6

Prove to me that evolution denies –it lacks intermediary species (missing links)
Prove to me that evolution denies the order of creation Day 1-6

D" LET’S DISCUSS CREATION – NOT A FLAWED SCIENTIFIC MATH PROBLEM!

The CORRECT ARGUMENT is to teach these government funded scientist what it is they actually validate – scripture – the word of God – and they would all bow to the Lord

But Christendom is not even preaching /witnessing to them – they are making them the enemy

The Creation Institute forces you to choose sides

Gnostic Christianity says – wake up – recognize what is in your sight - scripture alive all around us
What Joy – what Praise – How reassuring – validation – Scripture is real – God is real

INSTEAD – of discussing facts – you just want to harm on about time

R" The science video here does NOT validate Scripture at all.
I just think you fail to see the scripture come alive - becoauese you fail to look for it - so you cannot see it in this worrld - or anywhere

[Deleted]

D"Prove to me that evolution denies the order of creation Day 1-6
R" Creation days 1 to 6 Evolution ?
light/dark day 1                                                          big bang
water above/water below day 2                                   star dust. clouds. gas condense
dry land/ vegetation day 3                                          stars, planets, earth, moon
moon/sun/made day 4                                                bacteria, algae, viruses only 2 - 3 billion years ago
fish/whales/birds day 5                                               plants/fungi/single cellular animals 1 billion years ago
land animals/man day 6                                              multicellular plants and animals 900 million years ago
weekly Sabbath/ communion day 7                               cambrian explosion 535 million years ago
                                                                                  first vertebrates
                                                                                  plant invade land
                                                                                  fish
                                                                                  amphibians, reptiles, birds .
                                                                                  dinosaurs
                                                                                  mammals
                                                                                  monkeys 40 million years ago
                                                                                  humans 6 millions years ago
www.newscientist.com/article/dn17453-timeline-the-evolution-of-life/


Differences in order:-

sun and moon
birds before animals
all plants on one day
whales included with fish
lots of extinction events along the way
lots of billions of years involved, millions of years. 
Creation took just one week, 7 days of time.

Shalom

[Dave]

Differences in order:-

sun and moon
Have no idea what you are saying

birds before animals
Flying creature not birds - try to stick to scripture

all plants on one day
So - what is your point - how log is that day? It is not 24hrs

whales included with fish
I have no idea what you are saying
whales are not creatures within the waters?

lots of extinction events along the way
Cycle of life - and God said it was good - nature in balance

lots of billions of years involved, millions of years.
Creation took just one week, 7 days of time.
Time is not a valid argument - creation took 6 Days - try to stick to scripture
-------

I add this:

Day 1
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 Now the earth was chaos and waste, darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Ruach Elohim was hovering upon the surface of the water.
Gen 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light!” and there was light.

(wiki) The creation of light elements during BBN was dependent on a number of parameters; among those was the neutron–proton ratio (calculable from Standard Model physics) and the baryon-photon ratio.
Primordial nucleosynthesis is believed by most cosmologists to have taken place in the interval from roughly 10 seconds to 20 minutes after the Big Bang,

Even at the smallest scale – science agrees with the order
Creation – darkness – then light

Day 2 - Gen 1:6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the water! Let it be for separating water from water.”
Gen 1:7 So God made the expanse and it separated the water that was below the expanse from the water that was over the expanse. And it happened so.

Nebular Theory – Immanuel Kant 1750s – as the gasses cooled they gathered into larger and larger balls until galaxies and planets are formed

Day 3 – Physics - Gen 1:9 Then God said, “Let the water below the sky be gathered to one place. Let the dry ground appear.” And it happened so.
Gen 1:10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the collection of the water He called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

YES – more Nebular Theory + Standard Planet Formation Theory

Day 3- Biology - Gen 1:11 Then God said, “Let the land sprout grass, green plants yielding seed, fruit trees making fruit, each according to its species with seed in it, upon the land.” And it happened so.

www.newscientist.com/article/dn17453-timeline-the-evolution-of-life/
Timeline-the-evolution-of-life

3.8 billion years ago?
This is our current “best guess” for the beginning of life on Earth.
3.5 billion years ago
The oldest fossils of single-celled organisms date from this time.
3.46 billion years ago
3.4 billion years ago
3 billion years ago
2.4 billion years ago
The “great oxidation event”. Supposedly, the poisonous waste produced by photosynthetic cyanobacteria – oxygen – starts to build up in the atmosphere. Dissolved oxygen makes the iron in the oceans “rust” and sink to the seafloor, forming striking banded iron formations.

Day 4 - Gen 1:16 Then God made the two great lights—the greater light for dominion over the day, and the lesser light as well as the stars for dominion over the night.

Day 5 - Gen 1:20 Then God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures! Let flying creatures fly above the land across the expanse of the sky.”
Creatures not birds

2.3 billion years ago – blah blah
2.15 billion years ago
2 billion years ago?
1.5 billion years ago?
900 million years ago?
770 million years ago
730 million years ago
680 million years ago
630 million years ago
590 million years ago
580 million years ago
575 million years ago
570 million years ago
565 million years ago
540 million years ago
535 million years ago
The Cambrian explosion begins, with many new
A perfect example of creation – they just appeared

530 million years ago– blah blah
520 million years ago
500 million years ago
489 million years ago
The Great Ordovician Biodiversification Event begins, leading to a great increase in diversity. Within each of the major groups of animals and plants, many new varieties appear.
A perfect example of creation – they just appeared

465 million years ago– blah blah
460 million years ago
440 million years ago
425 million years ago
The coelacanth, one of the most famous “living fossils” – species that have apparently not changed for millions of years – splits from the rest of the lobe-finned fish.
The coelacanth is alive and well – it is not extinct - Oops
417 million years ago
Lungfish, another legendary living fossil,
Also once thought to be a fossil of something extinct - oops

400 million years ago
Gen 1:21 Then God created the large sea creatures and every living creature that crawls, with which the water swarms, according to their species, as well as every winged flying creature, according to their species. And God saw that it was good.

The size of creatures increased in size

Day 6 - Gen 1:24 Then God said, “Let the land bring forth living creatures according to their species—livestock, crawling creatures and wild animals, according to their species.” And it happened so.
397 million years ago
The first four-legged animals,

385 million years ago– blah blah
375 million years ago
340 million years ago
310 million years ago
275 to 100 million years ago
210 million years ago
200 million years ago - Around the same time, proto-mammals
180 million years ago - early mammal population.
168 million years ago
150 million years ago
140 million years ago
131 million years ago
130 million years ago
105-85 million years ago
100 million years ago- The Cretaceous dinosaurs reach their peak in size.
93 million years ago
75 million years ago
70 million years ago
65 million years ago - The Cretaceous-Tertiary (K/T) extinction wipes out a swathe of species, including all the giant reptiles: the dinosaurs, pterosaurs, ichthyosaurs and plesiosaurs. The ammonites are also wiped out. The extinction clears the way for the mammals, which go on to dominate the planet.

There are many indicators that something catastrophic happen on earth – to earth around 65 Million years ago
1- Timing of the Dino extinction of dino dominance (did any survive new fossil finds suggest YES)
2- Timing of the iridium layer
3- Timing – of the oldest known sea floor

FD-WEDT suggest this is the Flood of Noah
1- Adam and man are here – before the flood
2- dinos are here before the flood
3- science has evidence of an asteroid impact of the time
FD-WEDT suggest any event that cause such a change to our entire solar system could have easily explained all possible combinations of these events

63 million years ago– blah blah
58 million years ago
55 million years ago
50 million years ago
48 million years ago
47 million years ago
40 million years ago
25 million years ago
18 million years ago
14 million years ago
7 million years ago
6 million years ago - Humans - Last - dominion

The truth about this scientific timeline
1- it is based on the best evidence available - All has not been revealed
2- just because something = ‘the oldest fossil’ does not mean is did not exist before that

All science thought Sumar was the oldest civilization – then someone found Göbeklitepe

What I am saying is – Creationist hold to 6 Days
To organize the order of rediscovered creation science has used 60 moments in pass time
Incremental Creation says – both Correct – because they both speak to the one and only way it happened – God’s way

Creation hold to 6 Increments of time
Creationist believe in Incremental Creation whether they admit it or not
Scientist also say it happen over many increments of time

Incremental Creation says -
1- Time is not linear –
2- The order is not different between science and scripture
3- Romans 1-19 and Gen 1 must validate one another

Instead of making science the enemy – we are to love them and witness to them
To get them to see just how very scriptural their beliefs are

Some of us – choose not to witness to them – treat them with contempt and assume they do not want to know the lord deep inside

[Deleted]

Greetings Dave, I am having trouble trying to figure out what you actually believe.

What do you actually believe?

You post time, yet say things like 65 million years ago, and yet time is not linear to you?

You quote things that are weird

D"Let flying creatures fly above the land across the expanse of the sky.”
Creatures not birds

R" OK so when did birds get created in the Creation week of 6 days?

Shalom

[Dave]

Greetings Dave, I am having trouble trying to figure out what you actually believe.
What do you actually believe?

Take a moment and read the Theory of Incremental Creation – it is very clear
and the topic of this thread

The time line of evolution matches the timeline of creation
This should make every evolutionist stop and pause – consider – take another look at scripture
Jer 1:5 – it happened God’s way – just as scripture says

The scientist – the science of evolution itself – validates the order of creation!
I cannot imagine why you would want to hide that from people - Christian

You post time, yet say things like 65 million years ago, and yet time is not linear to you?
How do you talk about cars without using car vocabulary?
How to you talk about air planes without using air craft vocabulary?

Sciences says 67.5M yrs ago +/- 2.5M yrs a catastrophic earth change occurred
1- a huge impact crater in the Yukatan
2- correlates with the iridium layer which could only come from space
3- all the dinos died - + many other species as well
4- After that catastrophic earth change – mammals and man dominated the world
5- that earth change correlates with the oldest known ocean floor
6- all ocean floor spreading out from that oldest part is younger – progressively younger
As if the earth was once a concentric ball – with a complete rocky crust like all other planets we know
Then – was allowed to expand – by spreading out the ocean floors between the tectonic plates

However – the attempt to describe this expansion scientifically has always lacked mechanism
How could it have happened – what forces could explain such a thing

WEDD – there are so many reasons why a larger Proto-Planet Earth FITS science
It explains why earth has a disproportionate amount of heavy metals – especially near our surface
It explains why ancient rock is more dense than modern rock
It also explains the layering – or stratification – of the rock layers

There are so many reasons why a larger Proto-Planet Earth FITS scripture
No rain – all the grasses watered from the ground up – no rainbows
Thick firmament above + a very active biosphere – evidenced by the fossil record
Multiples humanoid types and chimeras – scripture- Gen 6
Dinos and man together + bane elohiym + Nephilim

WEDD – something happened – the sun hick-upped – sent out a shock wave that swept the inner solar system
All of the inner solar system changed – became more peaceful – less debris
the loss of our giant atm – ALLOWED – the inner rocky planetoid core to DECOMPRESS

FD-WEDT adds –
1 super island Pangea lopsided on one side of our planet – violates rotational harmonics
Therefore – super island Pangea – was actually just Planetoid Pangea at the core of Proto-Planet earth
2 any decompression sequence would have been –
A. gasses first ripping this planet a part
B. Followed immediately by the fluids – The Great Fountains of the deep Burst Forth – then it rained as is fell back to earth
C. This would have changed earth into a water planet named Oceania – the waters covered the tallest mountain – global
D. the slower decompressing semi-solids of the mantel – then continued to push the rocky tectonic plates back up through the water’s surface – expanding – to their present size
E. this decompression sequence would have been explosively rapid at first – then slowed until finally reaching its equilibrium – peaceful earth – where man can live and build a civilization
F. every expansion event – is always followed by ‘REBOUND CONTRACTION’

Every breath you blow into a balloon – expanse the rubber, but as soon as you stop – there is a tiny retraction. Put air in a car tire, as soon as you stop there is a tiny retraction. Over expansion followed by a correction to equilibrium.

If earth expanded/decompressed to its equilibrium – a rebound contraction would follow
Did you ever hear of sink hole as a kid – I didn’t - today it is common news. Why does the US Navy build it stronghold in Arkansas? And why dose the US Navy have a future predictive map predicting the sinking of America? And their map looks much like other predictive maps of our future.

You quote things that are weird
D Let flying creatures fly above the land across the expanse of the sky.”
Creatures not birds
Gen 1:20 Not all flying creatures are birds

R" OK so when did birds get created in the Creation week of 6 days?
Gen 1:20 Then God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures! Let flying creatures fly above the land across the expanse of the sky.”
Gen 1:21 Then God created the large sea creatures and every living creature that crawls, with which the water swarms, according to their species, as well as every winged flying creature, according to their species. And God saw that it was good.

First to be created according to scripture - flying H5775
Then larger sea creatures – crawling creatures
Then – after that - winged H5775

Greetings Dave, I am having trouble trying to figure out what you actually believe.
What do you actually believe?

1- 1852 Darwin put for his theory of evolution
He suggested that is explained the fossil record - over time - without God
2- 1925 Scopes Trial - Evolution is taught in schools as science - while creation is not taught in schools
3- The church failed to educate itseld and was unable to defend it own doctrines in the face of public education
4- to the people that teach denial of Rom 1:19-20 = LYGBT
5- History validateds Roman chpt 1
6- Darwin said - the problem with his theory is the lack of intermediary species (missing links) but hoped the new science os paleontology would prove him correct
7- the fossil record does not support darwin at all - there are not missing links - the fossil records says - species appeared - lived and reproduced after their own kind - and died
8- The order of the scientific fossil record - and the order of the scientific timeline of evolution
VALIDATE GENISIS chpt 1 as to the order of creation

Science validates Genisis 1 - History validates Romans 1
Why isn't every Christian on the planet excited by this - I am
Scripture is alive and real - anywhere you look - everywhere you look

The Creation Institute - has a different agenda - take sides - be ignorant - argue reality - we are right and they are wrong
It is as harmful to the faith as end times predictions that come and go and nothing happens

As I listened to Don Patton - there was so much untruth it was embarrasing - he is insulting to the educated - place him in a school of biology, chemisty, or physics and he will make ZERO converts. Today, our world is filled with the educated in biology, chemisrty, and physics and they drive our culture.

I do not want to be at war with them - I want to witness to them - they all believe in scriture - they just can't see it - why dont you see it?

[Dave]

Greetings Dave, I am having trouble trying to figure out what you actually believe.
What do you actually believe?
What do I believe?

The order – from the Big Bang – to expansion – to light formation – to Nebular Theory to Standard Planet Formation Theory – to evolution theory to FD-WEDT and the Flood –

Are all 100% in agreement with the order within scripture. All information from everywhere validates scripture. All information for anywhere validates scripture.

Spirts – and spirit gods of the pagan 99% - Zeus, Apollo, wood nymphs, fairies, goblins, baal, moloch, Chaldean satanas – witches – wizards – black magic. Are all 100% in agreement Jewish theology. Therefore all 100% in agreement with Messianic Jewish Theology. All validated by Gnostic Christianity as taught from the Nag Hammadi – John, James, Peter, Paul, Phillip, Thomas. All information from everywhere validates scripture. All information for anywhere validates scripture.

Did the ahl treat any of this as myth – NO
Necromancy is of the 99% and their gods – ‘other gods’ who are also real of the 99%

UFOs, aliens, ancient astronauts, space gods, - current space gods, UFOs, intra-dimensional visitations, CERN and the physicist trying to open a door to another dimension. Are all 100% in agreement Jewish theology. Therefore all 100% in agreement with Messianic Jewish Theology. All validated by Gnostic Christianity as taught from the Nag Hammadi – John, James, Peter, Paul, Phillip, Thomas. All information from everywhere validates scripture. All information for anywhere validates scripture.

Doubters ask – God of mercy and genocide?
Judaism say – rephiem – Gnostic call them archon – David Ike calls them the 13 families today

Myth speaks of giants and Titans – demi-gods
Judaism says – Nephilim – Gnostics call them archon – Paul calls the principalities – John said they are the beast

Scripture says – before the flood the earth was a very different place – a completely different biosphere
WEDD and FD-WEDT say before the flood the earth was a gas giant called Proto-Planet Earth with Planetoid Pangia at its core.

Science uses Super island Pangea to explain the migratory patterns of dinos and plants – proof that Super Island had a biosphere

WEDD and FD-WEDT say these patterns are specific with latitude on a smaller world

Not only does WEDD and FD-WEDT give mechanism to the flood of Noah
It address the entire solar system formation – as well as giving mechanism for every other form of geo-physics – volcanology, plate tectonics, ocean edge expansion

Walter Brown’s Hydroplate theory is lacking
Ok earth expanded and the waters slipped out to cover the whole planet – to satisfy scripture
To where do they recede – by what mechanism does this happen – why doesn’t it result in a stable planet – to what mechanism dose he add to any other science – none
To what other science dose he correlate with – none
Dose his theory have any background as to the formation of things – NO

What do I believe?
Man is created in the image of God - man is spirit - spirit being
God came to earth as a man – to Jer 1:5 – and returned to God
Man pre-exist our conception – we are at home in heaven with God – we know God – he knows us – and our nature is (yester tov) because we know – we are in his presence
Just as the angels in heaven – in his presence – are (yester tov)

Man of Gen 1 = an animal (yester ra) self-preservation – cave man
Man of Gen 2 = (yester tov) + (yester ra) – human being – homo sapiens

Adam and Eve – could see into the heavens with their (yester tov - spirit) – it says they could actually see the music the angels sang – but afterwards – they could only see what is brutish – through their (yester ra) animal eyes

Spirit (yester tov) is still there in the background – making you feel guilty because it knows better
Spirit (yester tov) want to Jer 1:5 because it knows the Lord
Body (yester ra) has 10 million excuses to do something else pleasurable (world) – or your too busy fearing Caesar (yester ra) or you are too busy chasing health, wealth, or power (yester ra)

Upon put mortal death – body (yester ra) is lost to the dust where it came from
Our spirit (yester tov) – is released – set free – and returns to heaven for judgment

What is the only criteria for judgment?
How well did you Jer 1:5 and did it lead you to a spiritual awakening – Born Again – spirit to spirit – which is the Divine Pardon – Salvation through Christ
If have a Divine Pardon – straight to the Bosom of Abraham as the First Fruits in heaven
We can join God in His 7th Day of rest – as First Fruits
Rev 20:4 – First fruits – there they are

Without this Divine Pardon – Proportional Punishment
Deeds, Works, and Fruit – proportional – each man is due
Believers in proportional punishment are the First Resurrection – they are saved and rule
Dose everyone graduate from proportional punishment?
Scripture says nope – some are still there in hades/hell/grave at the Last Judgment
The last judgment – is the end of spirit – the second death
All erased before the New heaven and earth – missing from the New heaven and earth

Also – God is fair – all have an equal chance at salvation
Some folk get a do over – reincarnation
Is everyone reincarnated many times over and over – NO
Is someone, somewhere, sometime reincarnated – sure the possibly exist

What do I believe?
Scripture is cyclic – Gen1:1-3 = beginning, darkness , light of salvation
Gen chpts 1,2,3, = beginning, darkness , light of salvation
The entire ahl is the story of = beginning, darkness, light of salvation
Today we are in the ‘age’ of the gentile move swiftly to the ‘age’ of Tribulation – followed by a promised age to come.
Will it be the last age? – Only God knows

What do I believe?
Jesus Christ was a Jew all the disciples were Jews – most of the First Christians were Messianic Jews
And at the time – no one had a Book called the Bible – they had a collection of individual scrolls
Early Christianity was centered in Egypt – not Rome the Pope who oversaw all of the first 4 ecumenical councils were from Alexandra Egypt.

In 313 AD, Emperor Constantine marries Christianity to the Roman Empire - the Edict of Milan,
Roman priest are bribed – bought – paid to preach the Emperors will - State backed – state population control – to unify the empire

The Council of Chalcedon 451AD = the Egyptian church walked away from Rome – over the issue of separation of church and state – leaving Rome to assume all the authority for the Roman Empire
That Roman Empire is today White Western Judeo-Christendom

How to control the people? No one had ever been able to rule the Jews – the Jews are FREE – they have never had any ruler over them but God – men of flesh are just of this world
Spiritual Christians are FREE – they do not need a priest or the church
If a spiritual Christian comes to church – they should lead the church – as spiritual Jews led the Jews

Instead the church forced dependency upon the church – not God
And for crowed control – they invented satan as their Macavelian common enemy
And at the same time – denying all of the archon of the ahl’s 99% to myth
Replacing it with Fallen Angels – because God is weak – satan strong - God is not in control

Then Rome did everything it could to hide the reality of the archon – our real struggle
Replacing it with Fallen Angels – because God is weak – satan strong – God is not in control

What do I believe?
Scripture says -
Hab 1:6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwelling places that are not theirs.

Who are the Chaldeans – and who were the ‘other gods’ that threatened Israel in the ahl?

Circa 632 AD, Mohammed place all of these ‘other gods’ into the Kaba and proclaimed Allah as their supreme leader
Who are the Chaldeans – and who is the ‘other god’ that threatens Israel Today?



Wake up – and recognize what is in your sight!

[Dave]

What is the mark of the beast – the number of the beast? 666 = Bish Mahalla
Where is it worn? – Right Arm and Forehead


Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Abrahamic Accords – all the Land between the Nile and the Euphrates is in a military and economic alliance with Israel – to stand against Iran – Persian – the Chaldeans

Why does Shite Persian hate Sunni Saudi Arabia – their prophesy
Saudi Arabia is the Whore of Babylon that has all the world drunk on her wine (ever hear this before)
Who sits atop all the oil? Shite Muslim
Who gets rich from selling it to the world – Sunni Saudi Arabia and it too rich to be devout Muslim neighbors.

The destruction of Mystery Babylon =
Sailors on the Red Sea will watch it burn - Rev 18:17-24
All the cities of Babylon mentioned are in Saudi Arabia

Jer 49:21 The earth is moved at the noise of their fall, at the cry the noise thereof was heard in the Red sea.

Rev 17:2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and they that dwell in the earth were made drunken with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness: (a desert)

Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the kedoshim and with the blood of the witnesses of Yeshua. When I saw her, I was totally astounded.
Who is beheading who?

Cities of Babylon – Isa 21 = Duman, Arabia,

What do I believe?
Scripture is alive all around us – alive right before our very eyes – real – valid – correct = God real, valid correct

[Deleted]

Greetings Dave, I am having trouble trying to figure out what you actually believe.
What do you actually believe?
What do I get ?

D" 1- 1852 Darwin put for his theory of evolution
3- The church failed to educate itseld
6- Darwin said - the problem with his theory is the lack of intermediary species (missing links) but hoped the new science os paleontology would prove him correct


D" Why isn't every Christian on the planet excited by this - I am
Excited by what?

D" The Creation Institute - has a different agenda - take sides - be ignorant - argue reality - we are right and they are wrong

As I listened to Don Patton - there was so much untruth it was embarrasing - he is insulting to the educated - place him in a school of biology, chemisty, or physics and he will make ZERO converts. Today, our world is filled with the educated in biology, chemisrty, and physics and they drive our culture.


R" Don Patton has staged numerous debates within lecture halls of universities and presented his evidence, it was NOT embarrassing to the science lecturers watching, he is NOT insulting to the educated - Don has done debates in a school of biology, chemistry, or physics and DON made many converts.

I am surprised by your mocking Dave. Have you listened to all his videos?

D"I want to witness to them - they all believe in scriture - they just can't see it
R" you must have your head in utopia, evolution science people hate god and anything to do with religion Bible stuff. I spend 8 years listening and talking to such people in their universities.
Richard Dawkins does not view creation or god stuff at all Dave, no matter how hard you think.

RP" Greetings Dave, I am having trouble trying to figure out what you actually believe.
What do you actually believe?
D" What do I believe?
The order – from the Big Bang – to expansion – to light formation – to Nebular Theory to Standard Planet Formation Theory – to evolution theory to FD-WEDT and the Flood –
Are all 100% in agreement with the order within scripture. All information from everywhere validates scripture. All information for anywhere validates scripture.

Spirts – and spirit gods of the pagan 99% - Zeus, Apollo, wood nymphs, fairies, goblins, baal, moloch, Chaldean satanas – witches – wizards – black magic. Are all 100% in agreement Jewish theology. Therefore all 100% in agreement with Messianic Jewish Theology. All validated by Gnostic Christianity as taught from the Nag Hammadi – John, James, Peter, Paul, Phillip, Thomas. All information from everywhere validates scripture. All information for anywhere validates scripture.
R" finally. Thank you.

Hab 3:4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power.
5 Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at his feet.
6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

His brightness is an the light, as you say "light formation " light is formed, light is as God.

"; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power." not some big bang

5 Before him went the pestilence... not dealing with natural ra.

Why was there some ra already on earth?

Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness...

Answer: Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, AND Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Some creatures had sinned long before man and where causing ra changes on the earth.

I have a very different view of GOD and his creation than you, from the Scriptures.

You present a massive post of what you believe, too much for me now. I will consider this later.

First light requires to be formed: Isa 45:7 I form the light, conditioned changed, a part from god.

But darkness is never formed, created, not a part of God. Have you considered this idea?

Shalom

[Dave]

Greetings Dave, I am having trouble trying to figure out what you actually believe.
What do you actually believe?
What do I get ?

D" 1- 1852 Darwin put for his theory of evolution
3- The church failed to educate itseld
6- Darwin said - the problem with his theory is the lack of intermediary species (missing links) but hoped the new science os paleontology would prove him correct
D" Why isn't every Christian on the planet excited by this - I am
Excited by what?
Robert seriousness – Robert honesty – quote ½ of what I said and pretend you don’t understnd

Sept 23, 2021 7:29:48 GMT -5 Dave said:

4- to the people that teach denial of Rom 1:19-20 = LYGBT
5- History validates Roman chpt 1
6- Darwin said - the problem with his theory is the lack of intermediary species (missing links) but hoped the new science os paleontology would prove him correct
7- the fossil record does not support Darwin at all - there are not missing links - the fossil records says - species appeared - lived and reproduced after their own kind - and died
8- The order of the scientific fossil record - and the order of the scientific timeline of evolution
VALIDATE GENISIS chpt 1 as to the order of creation

Science validates Genesis 1 - History validates Romans 1
Why isn't every Christian on the planet excited by this - I am
Scripture is alive and real - anywhere you look - everywhere you look

Excited by what?
You are so busy denying everything – you cannot see the obviouse

Sept 23, 2021 7:29:48 GMT -5 Dave said:

The Creation Institute - has a different agenda - take sides - be ignorant - argue reality - we are right and they are wrong
It is as harmful to the faith as end times predictions that come and go and nothing happens

D"I want to witness to them - they all believe in scriture - they just can't see it
R" you must have your head in utopia, evolution science people hate god and anything to do with religion Bible stuff.
WOW – my point perfectly
So – you deny the One True God – you deny the Spirit – you deny First fruits
And now you teach NOT to witness for the Lord – very interesting religion you preach

I spend 8 years listening and talking to such people in their universities.
Then why do say such intelligent stuff like:

Sept 24, 2021 15:22:38 GMT -5 @robertt said:

Richard says" Evolution is the science of the origin of biological life, therefor evolution does not say this.

Rob replies" Not sure what you are implying, but you seem to think evolution is only about biological changes to biology. Have you not heard of the big bang, the stellar evolution of stars? Being a Christian in God I suppose you allow evolution into the biological side of creation?

Your personal slander angainst Rich is dulley noted

Spirts – and spirit gods of the pagan 99% - Zeus, Apollo, wood nymphs, fairies, goblins, baal, moloch, Chaldean satanas – witches – wizards – black magic. Are all 100% in agreement Jewish theology. Therefore all 100% in agreement with Messianic Jewish Theology. All validated by Gnostic Christianity as taught from the Nag Hammadi – John, James, Peter, Paul, Phillip, Thomas. All information from everywhere validates scripture. All information for anywhere validates scripture.
R" finally. Thank you.
Thank you for what – I have always said this – they are all of the Beast and his offspring – the serpent race!

[Dave]

Sept 25, 2021 8:06:36 GMT -5 Nicole said:

Intelligent Design / Creation education is the role of religious education – the church has deliberately remained ignorant

In the struggle for the education of the young – the school has a job to do – and they do it

The church had a job to do – and they didn’t even try

Design Arguments for the Existence of God - Internet ...https://iep.utm.edu › design
Richard Bentley saw evidence of intelligent design in Newton's discovery of the law of gravitation. It is noteworthy that each of these thinkers attempted to ...
‎Contemporary Versions of the Design Argument · ‎The Fine-Tuning Arguments

Answering Another Objection to Intelligent Design: “You Can't ...https://evolutionnews.org › Science › Intelligent Design
Feb 22, 2021 — The objection goes something like this: “I don't accept intelligent design because you can't prove God exists.” This objection has been ...

Frequently Asked Questions About "Intelligent Design"https://www.aclu.org › other › frequently-asked-questio...
Like traditional forms of creationism, it claims to have scientific evidence for the existence of design in the biological world; unlike them, it refrains from ...


teleological arguments for God's existenceplato.stanford.edu › entries › teleological-argum...

Deductive Design Arguments: Schema 2 · by D Ratzsch · 2005 · Cited by 68 — a has R precisely because it is a product of deliberate design by intelligent human agency. Like effects typically ...

Looking for signs of the hand of God in Intelligent Designwww.irishtimes.com › news › looking-for-signs-...
the traditional creationists began a movement called Creation Science, which tried to discredit mainstream scientific evidence using "scientific ...

Is Intelligent Design Theory Really an Argument for "God"?http://www.ideacenter.org › showdetails.php

Appealing to God or the supernatural makes intelligent design ... and science is not capable of studying the evidence to tell us if the designer was ...


The Teleological Argumenthttps://www.qcc.cuny.edu › ppecorino › intro_text › Te...
Human artifacts are products of intelligent design; they have a purpose. ... The teleological argument is an attempt to prove the existence of God that ...

Argument from design | philosophy | Britannicahttps://www.britannica.com › ... › Philosophical Issues
Argument from design, Argument for the existence of God. According to one version, the universe as a whole is like a machine; machines have intelligent ...


Intelligent Design versus Evolution - NCBIhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › articles › PMC3721655
IMPORTANT AND UNIMPORTANT ISSUES · by N Aviezer · 2010 · Cited by 4 — ... the attention of many of those involved in the ID debate. ... and not just to evolution, but to science itself.
‎INTRODUCTION · ‎IMPORTANT AND UNIMPORTANT ISSUES · ‎NAME-CALLING

Intelligent Design Versus Evolution Sparks Debate - ASCDhttps://www.ascd.org › feb06 › vol48 › num02 › Intellige...
Feb 1, 2006 — Both ideas seek to explain how the current variety of life on Earth came to be. Advocates for both say the stakes are high, and neither side ...

What the Scientific Community Says about Evolution ... - ACLUhttps://www.aclu.org › other › what-scientific-communi...
The [intelligent design] movement has failed to offer credible scientific evidence to support their