Gnostic Christianity - Just be Honest

[rob]

Greetings Dave:

So now we come to the subject of poetry similes.
Jeff Benner says half of the Bible is poetry and therefore full of poetry similes.

The entire book of Revelation is full of poetry similes, as is the book of Daniel.

Daniel is given to us to learn confidently how to understand similes.

Also we have parallel poetry, written in couplets to help readers learn poetry similes.

But NO Dave sees the literal only.

(1) Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Question: which words here are similes? How can we tell? Maybe none are?

(2) Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. 5 If thou canst answer me, set thy words in order before me, stand up.

But Dave can't, because you do not understand poetry parallels. You would ask the Jew or some scholar to interrupt this structure for you, and so we get clash of traditions and precepts using poetry similes. Most scholars see the ruwach and the Shadday as functionally the same as YHWH as a whole. I disagree.

(3) 1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Here Paul talks about a "ruwach cela" that followed Israel, called Christ.
Is this a literal rock? According to Dave it is?

(4) The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
So Jesus-YHWH is a shepherd is He? Must be, the verse says so.

(5) Ps 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

SO does this mean humans are sheep? What does the waters mean? and the pasture? Or do we like Dave say, the humans eat pasture grasses? Or maybe the LORD just looks after sheep? And it's not about humans at all?

(6) De 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

Here is more poetry Dave cannot understand. Here the takings drop as rain. What are takings? translated poorly as doctrines? Do words fall as rain? And what is grass here? Let me guess the rain is like words and the grass feeds on the words that fall as rain?

De 32:1 ¶ Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.

GOD challenges us to hear, but Dave can't because you do not understand how to read poetry.

A poem written by me aged 11 years old, in grade 6 Primary School:

(7) Home

There is a home of babbling brats,
A place of dogs, cats and rats;
In a time when things go bad,
When all get angry or go mad;
Was one such day,
Mr Dog crawled back,
And as you know,
Dogs "hate" cats,
So Dog bashed in ,
He was shouting,
Cat was complaining,
Reddening, maddening,
She was so mad,
Her face fell flat,
And as you know,
Cats "hate" rats,
So she screamed,
At those bawling brats,
In the home,
Of dog's, cat's and rat's.

SO according to Dave this entire poem is about dogs, cats and rats.
One is not allowed to read similes in the poem, infact the entire poem is making fun of similes back and forth.

I have asked you for your own poems but you decline, and unless you learn to write such poems how can you understand Scripture?

(8) De 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
4 He is the Rock...

Notice the Jesus-YHWH publishes the name of the Father-YHWH as a rock, the tsuwr.

(9) De 32:11 As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings:

Who is the eagle here and what's it doing in the poetry passage of Duet 32? OH according to Dave the eagle is just an eagle, nothing more.

(10) De 32:13 He made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields; and he made him to suck honey out of the rock, and oil out of the flinty rock;

Strangely enough, there are two rocks mentioned here, the cela rock and the tsuwr rock.

OH hang on, Dave only sees one god in all the universe, so the infinity power can only function as one Being, not allowed to have other persons, yet you do allow three expressions of the one being, which is very close to my view, but not quite my view.

What is the difference between a flint foundation rock and another rock sitting on top of the foundation rock? It's still all rock, nothing really, just a different expression.
But hang on according to Dave we are not allowed to discuss similes and poetry pictures.

Now we get serious in the poetry

(11) De 32:15 ¶ But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

But the Hebrew is not shown

De 32:15 then Israel forsook "eloah the Father" which made him, and lightly esteemed the Tsuwr Rock of his Yashuah.

Question: if we are not allowed to interpret poetry pictures, than we make nothing of this verse, in fact half of the Bible is hidden away.

Question" do Jews not read poetry? What? I read they even read letters in the torah and make a big deal over letters, which is really digging into the torah.

What does the torah say about its language style?

Eze 20:49 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?
(KJV)

1Ki 4:32 And he spake three thousand proverbs:

Solomon spoke poetry all the time, why?

Job 27:1 ¶ Moreover Job continued his parable,

SO the entire book of JOB is poetry....

so what is the Opposer a simile of?

Ps 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable:

Most if not all of Davids prayers are poetry pictures

(12) Ps 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

This is my faviourite poetry picture. Yet Dave will not read the verse because the literal are literals.

SO who is "he" ? Let me guess a "tree". And what are "leaves" ? and "fruit"?

Why do trees grow into both directions, into the dark and into the light?
Why is a seed made of three functional parts, the testis, the starch and the embryo?
Why are there two kinds of seeds, monocots and dicots?

Back to your problem Dave:

Nu 21:7 We have sinned,

When we sin, we sin only because of the yester ra within us?

SO this Jewish tradition sway you completely.... is it true though?

So there is no agent of sin? The only agent is yester ra within, the evil inclination.

This idea is totally false and unsupported by the poetry in the Scriptures.

If it were true, why does GOD allow snakes to bite them? Why not allow some other creature like shedims kill them? or archons kill them? what do the shedim and the archon look like on earth anyway, or are these natural creatures also made by GOD, so their is no agent that helps humans sin?

hang on, Dave says yes the archons are agents of sin, helping humans sin. OK
How come the archons do not kill the sinners to death?

Dave might say archons do not kill humans?

Funny Jews say satan kills humans to death... and this is some prosecuting angel?

You have a big problem Dave, God does not use archons here but saraph creatures.

Why use a saraph creature?

I can't go looking at Scripture to investigate because Dave won't let me.
So according to Dave, the reading of Scripture is all one can do. Not allowed to look up poetry picture themes line upon line. Dave's method.

QUestion: how come Dave reads Greek in the NT with the Satan translated word?
Are you not a hypocrite in reading Scripture? and so you promote a brand new word "satanas" and "Archon" both Greek words, making a brand new religion based on words written in Greek, but not a single translator agrees with your notions?

And you condemn me for reading Scripture with Scripture? At least I don't try to read Hebrew into Greek, or Greek into Hebrew, or make up stuff.

Shalom

[Dave]

So now we come to the subject of poetry similes.
Jeff Benner says half of the Bible is poetry and therefore full of poetry similes.
The entire book of Revelation is full of poetry similes, as is the book of Daniel.

But NO Dave sees the literal only.
Another Robert Lie made out of frustration

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. 5 If thou canst answer me, set thy words in order before me, stand up.

But Dave can't, because you do not understand poetry parallels.
I understand just fine – it is you that denies the spirit – so you cling to the simile

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
I understand just fine – it is you that denies the spirit – so you cling to the simile

(4) The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
So Jesus-YHWH is a shepherd is He? Must be, the verse says so.
Yep – absolutely – leading His flock

SO does this mean humans are sheep?

shee·ple
noun - DEROGATORY
people compared to sheep in being docile, foolish, or easily led.

What does the waters mean? and the pasture? Or do we like Dave say, the humans eat pasture grasses? Or maybe the LORD just looks after sheep? And it's not about humans at all?

Psalms 23 is all about being born into the world
Psa 23:1 A psalm of David. Adonai is my shepherd, I shall not want.
Psa 23:2 He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters.
Psa 23:3 He restores my soul. He guides me in paths of righteousness for His Name’s sake.
Psa 23:4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for You are with me: Your rod and Your staff comfort me.
Psa 23:5 You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You have anointed my head with oil, my cup overflows.
Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the House of Adonai forever.
---------------------------

Question: if we are not allowed to interpret poetry pictures, than we make nothing of this verse, in fact half of the Bible is hidden away.
Question" do Jews not read poetry? What? I read they even read letters in the torah and make a big deal over letters, which is really digging into the torah.
I can't go looking at Scripture to investigate because Dave won't let me.
So according to Dave, the reading of Scripture is all one can do. Not allowed to look up poetry picture themes line upon line.

Are you done whining?
Nothing you have said here supports your rewriting the scripture of Num 21 to prove it’s all about seraphim angels and not fiery serpents

QUestion: how come Dave reads Greek in the NT with the Satan translated word?
Because the NT was written in Greek - DUH

[Dave]

Robert – I have read over your post several times
Dillon asked you to defend your Covenant theology – and you pretended you didn’t understand the question – you did not look it up – do a little research – and respond with an answer.

You just pretended the question didn’t exist – and refused to answer
Yet – you just made a long post using your Covenant theology to justify your actions

Jul 21, 2023 2:06:08 GMT -5 Dave said:

YES – I am very much in the camp of Dispensation

3:25 - Dispensationalist are more literal to the Word of God

While - COVENANT THEOLOGY is based upon / dependent on – Allegory

allegory
1. a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.

4:20 - Basic principle – if the Bible says something – it means something else
This is mandatory for Robert and his SDA dogma

5:20 – in the 5th century Roman Catholicism saw the Jews as – Christ Killers

5:30 – Martin Luther wrote kills the Jews and later Hitler did it

6:30 – An allagory needs a key or/a code built upon a series of assumptions – A = B = C therefore D means whatever you need it to be

I have used this same criticism of Robert – he play word chain games built upon assumptions

Robert maintains that satan hates God – opposes God
Yet he cannot supply one verse of scripture to defend his view
Nor can he supply one pre-Roman reference

6:45 – Because the allegory method of this means this – then this mean that – then that means this – no one can read the Bible for themselves – someone has to tell them what it says

This is 100% Robert’s argument – Ellen White has taught him how to read scripture – she is another prophet equal with the Apostle Paul

7:40 – the big difference

COVENANT THEOLOGY – The CHURCH has taken the place of Israel

Again – this is very much Robert’s Ellen White teaching – the Jews are done – their role in scripture is over – now it is all about the Body of Christ – The Church

8:00 – now all the promises made within scripture for Israel now pertain to the CHURCH

Exactly why Robert refuses to answer the question – Is 1948 Israel prophetic? Or – who is Allah and the role Islam has in the end of days.

An allagory needs a key or/a code built upon a series of assumptions – A = B = C therefore D means whatever you need it to be.
Robert’s word game of Num 21 is a perfect example of his word games

Num 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people,…

The word fiery = H8314 – שָׂרָף - śârâph
From H8313; burning, that is, (figuratively) poisonous (serpent); specifically a saraph or symbolical creature (from their copper color): - fiery (serpent), seraph.

Twice the word H8314 is translated a seraphim (a type of angel)
Isa_6:2 Seraphim were standing above Him. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
Isa_6:6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me, with a glowing coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar.

Therefore Robert concludes that Moses was instructed by God to make a brass angel from heaven and stick it on a pole
Therefore Roberts concluded – God instructed Moses to violate the 10 Commandments
Exo 20:4 Do not make for yourself a graven image , or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or on the earth below

Precept upon precept, line upon line – Roberts corruption of scripture cannot stand as correct

[rob]

Greetings

SO we also have masonic words for this idea to read Poetry Similes and see what they mean

It's called

Dispensationalist are more literal to the Word of God

while

While - COVENANT THEOLOGY is based upon / dependent on – Allegory / Similes

Well well well then you stick with your Masonic idea, I hope it helps you to see the truth.

No wonder Jews do not investigate similes, they overlook many hidden ideas in the Scriptures.
So this saraph placed on the pole was an adjective was it?

NO Dave, it wasn't. It was a noun placed on the pole.

Hand on, the snake is not the noun, the snake gets the adjective with the noun.
And Moses out of desperation places a noun look alike on the pole.

The fact is nobody can place a noun "saraph" upon a pole, because the word means "burning".

And Hebrew does not have verbs and nouns, only incomplete and complete actions.

Well stick to your Dave Method of reading Scripture....

Answer this problem using the NT (Jews do not read the NT)

Mt 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

What is the Sower?
What are the Seeds?
What is the fowls?

Now being a Dispensationalist Dave cannot answer these questions.

Let's get Jesus the Jew to answer these questions using the COVENANT THEOLOGY approach, an approach Dave says one is not allowed to use.

The sower is Jesus

Mt 13:19 When any one heareth the word. The Seeds are the WORD

Mt 13:19 The fowls are " the wicked one,"

Funny here is Jesus using the COVENANT THEOLOGY approach.

If the evil is as Jews say just and inclination, why does Jesus compare the evil to some creature

Mt 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man?

And why does Jesus term this as a single agent

Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil;

It is clear from the word "Devil" that "Shedim" are enemies. So if Jesus used the COVENANT THEOLOGY approach, why can't I use the same Scriptures to identify who the "Saraph" was or is, in the Scriptures for the OT torah?

Are you afraid of identifying who the "shedim" are after all?

Shalom

[Dave]

Funny here is Jesus using the COVENANT THEOLOGY approach.
Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
It is clear from the word "Devil" that "Shedim" are enemies.

Correct – literal
why can't I use the same Scriptures to identify who the "Saraph" was or is, in the Scriptures for the OT torah?
Go for it – be honest
You are trying to make Numbers 21 all about seraphim angels
It is about poisonous snakes / burning snakes / fiery snakes

You are deliberately trying to bend scripture so it says what you want it to

Isa 14:29 Do not rejoice, all you of Philistia, that the rod that struck you is broken. For from the serpent’s root comes a viper and its fruit will be a seraphim angels of the Lord

Are you afraid of identifying who the "shedim" are after all?
They are the BEAST of Revelation – the serpent – we call devils and satanas - DUH

[rob]

Greetings Dave

D"Go for it – be honest
You are trying to make Numbers 21 all about seraphim angels
It is about poisonous snakes / burning snakes / fiery snakes
ROB" Dave my friend, I am just reading the Hebrew.

The word "saraph" is assumed to be used as an adjective.

Hebrew does not have verbs, nouns or adjectives. What we have here is the assumed translation of a hebrew construct state. What do we do with nouns side by side in Hebrew?

I dunno.

Translators are not consistent.

Ge 1:2 ...And the Spirit of God

Terrible translation

The Hebrew is

"ruwach elohiym"

What do we do with two nouns side by side?

Dunno

Nu 21:6 "prefix" YHWH sent "shalach" "saraph" serpents "nachash"

Just because the nouns are not important we say they are adjectives, and for important nouns we use the little word "of"

"ruwach of GOD"

"Saraph nachash"

If we use principles Jeff taught me, the incomplete action of "Saraph" is shown in the snakes, the poison can kill humans temporarily. And GOD the complete burning can destroy us permanently.

So what does the complete action of saraph do? as a noun?

Where does the term "saraph" come from?
--------------

Nu 21:6 And the LORD sent "saraph" serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

incomplete action to be burning

Nu 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a "saraph" , and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

incomplete action to be burning, compared to another Saviour who is the complete action to be burning  

De 8:15 Who led thee through that great and terrible wilderness, wherein were "saraph" serpents, and scorpions, and drought, where there was no water; who brought thee forth water out of the rock of flint;

incomplete action to be burning

Isa 6:2 Above it stood the "saraph" : each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

complete action to be burning because sinless angels are close to GOD

Isa 6:6 Then flew one of the "saraph" unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

complete action to be burning because sinless angels are close to GOD

Isa 14:29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a "saraph" flying serpent.

incomplete action to be burning, everything about the Opposer is incomplete

Isa 30:6 The burden of the beasts of the south: into the land of trouble and anguish, from whence come the young and old lion, the viper and "saraph" flying serpent, they will carry their riches upon the shoulders of young asses, and their treasures upon the bunches of camels, to a people that shall not profit them.
(KJV)

incomplete action to be burning, everything about the Opposer is incomplete

The serpent was originally a complete burning angel.
----------------------

Dave" Isa 14:29 Do not rejoice, all you of Philistia, that the rod that struck you is broken. For from the serpent’s root comes a viper and its fruit will be a seraphim angels of the Lord

ROB" That is not what the verse would say if rewritten.

Saraph is a functional aspect of GOD, meaning burning.

It is not as Jews say a different angelic kind, as there is no mention ""saraph" being created as a creature.

The word simply means "burning" in either an incomplete or complete sense.

I suspect when you get close to the Most HIgh, His love is a function of "burning".

And when we are saved for eternity we as humans become fireproof to this "burning".

The wicked are burned up in the loving arms of burning, not God's intention to hareg them at all.

This is why the term burning becomes an incomplete term for a posionous snake, and thus can only be seen this way as a result of sin, something is missing.

youtu.be/JnUOLbHRQ8E

Watch this 5 minute video

At the end, Einstein says

RA does not exist, and in the previous two cases is a term invented by man for when men does not have God's love in their hearts.

You think God does not obey his own laws, but He must, to be a fair and loving judge.

So if RA is here, why does it exist? WHy are men choosing to be missing God in their lives?

Why has this burning become reduced to an incomplete action of poison in a snake?

In heaven the complete burning will automatically destroy RA because GOD cannot tolerate anything dysfunctional.

But you say we need entropy to walk?

God uses the ruwach to fly us around, No need for old physical laws.

SHalom

[Dave]

D"Go for it – be honest
You are trying to make Numbers 21 all about seraphim angels
It is about poisonous snakes / burning snakes / fiery snakes

The word "saraph" is assumed to be used as an adjective.
Hebrew does not have verbs, nouns or adjectives.

 Just made up nonsense – post something intelligent or stop posting

Adjective - unfoldingWord Hebrew Grammar - Read the Docs
unfoldingWord Hebrew Grammar
uhg.readthedocs.io › latest › adjective
In Biblical Hebrew, comparative adjectives are often used either with the preposition מִן (“from”) or with the phrase מִכֹּל (“from all”). Example: JDG 14:18¶. מַה־ ...

Learn Biblical Hebrew: Lesson 15 | AHRC
The Ancient Hebrew Research Center
ancient-hebrew.org › learn › learn-biblical-hebr...
In this lesson we will learn how Adjectives, Prepositions, etc. are used in the Hebrew Bible.

Unit Five - Hebrew Adjectives
Hebrew for Christians
www.hebrew4christians.com › Grammar › unit...
An adjective is a word that is used to describe or qualify a noun. Hebrew adjectives function similarly to English adjectives. Tov! Objective:.

The Inflection of Hebrew Adjectives
BillMounce.com
hebrew.billmounce.com › BasicsBiblical...
In the predicative usage, the adjective asserts something about the noun and agrees with that noun in gender and number, but not in definiteness.
---------------------------------------------

What do we do with two nouns side by side?
Dunno
At last - you said something correctly

[rob]

Greetings Dave

ancient-hebrew.org/learn/learn-biblical-hebrew-15.htm
YOur link Dave, is not specific to the webapge??

If the noun is preceded by the article ה (as a prefix) then, the adjective will as well, such as in הָהָר הַטוֹב (the good mountain, Deuteronomy 3:25).

Rob" well that's a good rule?

In the phrase הַמֶּלֶךְ טוֹב the word מֶלֶךְ (king) is prefixed by the article ה (the) but, the word טוֹב is not. In this case the word טוֹב is not being used as an adjective but as a noun and should therefore be translated as "the king is good" or "the king is pleased" (Nehemiah 2:5).

ROb" So is the Prefix rule consistent?

It should be kept in mind that Biblical Hebrew does not really like adjectives but instead prefers to provide description by using verbs since the Ancient Hebrew mind describes things by their function and purpose rather than their appearance.

ROB" What Rob told Dave...

Let's test this Hebrew rule in Number 21:6

הַנְּחָשִׁ֣ים suffix two letters - wnf- prefix n
han-nə-ḥā-šîm
8314 [e] הַשְּׂרָפִ֔ים suffix two letters- grw-prefix n
haś-śə-rā-p̄îm,

OK as Jeff Benner explains both words have the same prefix, so its an adjective here.

I also note using Hebrew Bible Hub that NUmbers 21:8 is a noun, the saraph is on it's own.

GOD told Moses to make a "firey" and put it on a pole.

My question to the entire world is what is the meaning of this ? And nobody investigates this except me.


The phrase "firey" comes from Bible Hub

The word meaning "burning" comes from Jeff Benner

You will note, I still remain a student of Jeff Benner, however in my little world my Bible electronic software does NOT show prefix and suffix, so my learning is limited.

ROB" What do we do with two nouns side by side?
Dunno

Dave" At last - you said something correctly

Rob" Yes I even emailed Jeff about this, got no help

What I posted last post is still valid, but you didn't read the post did you,, found one error and so abandoned the little child trying to learn. At least I am trying to investigate why the word "saraph" as a noun only is used by GOD.

You do not investigate this, neither does anybody else.

Question" Why Does Jesus refer to it in the NT?

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Let me guess that Jesus came to destroy the prince of this world, so this saraph being is just some snake poison only? Hardly. 


Notice the Greek uses a noun too

Mt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Why does Jesus call his own leaders serpents?

1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

Two things from Paul here, Christ was the one who spoke to Moses about lifting up the "saraph" upon the pole, which the Greek makes into the word "Serpent"

Second, the serpent is now also called "the destroyer"

Used once, here bother.

Does the NT quote the OT with reference to this Satanas Greek word?

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

While not quoting the OT, the Cross References are uncanny

Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

Ps 109:6 ¶ Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Question: Is the NT verse cross referencing the OT in these two verses?

Who else in the OT causes the destruction of the flesh?

The only verses I know is the "Satan", and so I have dispelled your argument Dave.

Shalom

[Dave]

If the noun is preceded by the article ה (as a prefix) then, the adjective will as well, such as in הָהָר הַטוֹב (the good mountain, Deuteronomy 3:25).
OR – Num 21:6 אֵ֚ת הַ נְּחָשִׁ֣ים הַ שְּׂרָפִ֔ים
Rob" well that's a good rule?

Let's test this Hebrew rule in Number 21:6
OK as Jeff Benner explains both words have the same prefix, so its an adjective here.
DUH

I also note using Hebrew Bible Hub that NUmbers 21:8 is a noun, the saraph is on it's own.
GOD told Moses to make a "firey" and put it on a pole.
My question to the entire world is what is the meaning of this ? And nobody investigates this except me.

You cannot translate Hebrew into English
if you do not understand
Hebrew grammar or English grammar

The Americans captured a Jap soldier
Two sentences later – that Jap was killed – 

The girl is a foxy lady
Two sentences later – that fox winked at me - 

Fat ass Billy sat in my chair
Two sentences later – that fat ass got up from my chair -

Only you cannot understand who they are talking about
You say your Robert Method does not care about grammar, syntax, or context
YOU COULD NOT BE MORE ARROGANTLY WRONG - and you teach your false teaching to others
You just choose to stumble over words - on purpose - and miss the entire message
You just choose to stumble over words - dliberately - to corrupt scripture
You just choose to stumble over words - arrogantly - trying to rewrite scripture so it supports your Ellen White traditions

There is nothing serious or honest about your teaching

In Greek it is called - Noun (predicate adjective) - unfoldingWord Greek Grammar
Summary. In Koiné Greek, a predicate adjective is an adjective that functions as a noun in a sentence and appears in the predicate position.

In English it is called - a predicate adjective
Thesaurus.com - www.thesaurus.com › grammar › predicate-no...
Feb 10, 2017 — A predicate nominative renames the subject of a sentence whereas a predicate adjective describes the subject of a sentence.

I am not an Hebrew translator – but

Hebrew for Christians
www.hebrew4christians.com › Unit_Five › sum...
In Hebrew, predicate adjectives can appear before or after the noun and agree in gender and number -- but not definiteness. Predicate adjectives use the word " ...

Rules of The Hebrew Adjective
Luther Seminary - myluthernet.luthersem.edu › Slides_3
The predicative adjective usually precedes but sometimes follows the noun. The predicate adjective agrees with the noun in number and gender, but it is never ...

Predicative Adjectives Exercises For Hebrew Grammar
talkpal.ai › grammar_exercises
Predicative adjectives in the Hebrew language are adjectives that describe an attribute of a

I tried to google what grade in school do you learn this
(google) What is a predicate adjective 6th grade?
(google) IXL – a web-site I used many times homeschooling my girls
Identify linking verbs, predicate adjectives, and predicate nouns | 8th grade language arts.

Repeat - You cannot translate Hebrew into English if you do not understand Hebrew grammar or English grammar
Your Robert Method just leads you to error
Stop trying to invent word game short cuts – learn to translate – or at least learn Engilsh
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ROB" What do we do with two nouns side by side?
Dunno
Dave" At last - you said something correctly
Rob" Yes I even emailed Jeff about this, got no help
Because it is a stupid question that anyone entering high school should already know the answer

Your question speaks to your own ignorance
You think a PhD with so many Hebrew projects going on has the time teach you at the elementary level?
Learn to translate - spend years at it - then maybe you can ask a question that he would respond to

What I posted last post is still valid, but you didn't read the post did you,, found one error and so abandoned the little child trying to learn. At least I am trying to investigate why the word "saraph" as a noun only is used by GOD.
You do not investigate this, neither does anybody else.
It is all a false analogy that you created to bend scripture to fit your traditions

You already have your mind up what the verse means – then you set out to make it say what you want
It is not honest – as a linguist – or a student
It is all a false analogy that you created to bend scripture to fit your traditions

Using Covenant Theology you can make scripture mean anything you choose

Notice the Greek uses a noun too
Mt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Why does Jesus call his own leaders serpents?
Rev 12:9 … the great dragon = the ancient serpent - DUH

[rob]

Greetings Dave

I am replying on Ubantu a Unix software program using Firefox. Somethings I like all ready. It's like learning another language. Like Japanese.

No more web ads, or updates or programs telling me what I need.

I was impressed with you in a fund raiser helping others overseas. How much God uses you. You have a good heart. How do I know this? For one, you put up with me. LOL

D" The Americans captured a Jap soldier
Two sentences later – that Jap was killed –

OK I get that, works well if we live in a secular world with secular dictionaries and the dictionaries dictate how to read secular writings.

But how does the torah say the torah should be studied?

Do we use your literal approach or the simile approach, or is the passages just plain reading?

Isa 28:9 ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Already the Bible is not literal reading, we have milk from the breasts. But it does say "precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:" And you agree that reading Inspired Writings requires one to look up all the words used in the Bible, and understand the overall word meaning.

The Bible talks about "shad" who also teach humans "false milk" hence their name. Not really a name, but a simile approach, pointing to some creature that weaned humans on false milk, as Jeff Benner says deceives humans with the truth.

a) So saraph means "burning" or "firey".

b) It can be applied as a function, to snakes or special cherub angels.

Both of these statements are facts, and you have to agree with me?

Now the term snake is also a simile approach, not literal approach because when looking up all the verses

05175. vxn nachash,

We discover

Ge 3:1 no ordinary snake, a serpent

Ps 58:4 The poison of the special snake/serpent is discussed here (NOT saraph)

Isa 14:29 Here we discover while the serpent is something,
the saraph is a flying saraph. Does this mean the serpent was a flying creature? Seems so?

How come ancient people like engrave Murduk as a flying serpent, and other people see this already, but Dave doesn't?

Isa 27:1 Here using parallel poetry, the serpent is also compared to the leviathan ?

So using line upon line, looking up all the verses we gather a very interesting picture of this burning creature.

1) It was a flying snake
2) shining with colors beautiful to watch
3) it has it own poison (the term saraph as poison is wrong according to the verses of context)
4) The natural creature (serpent) was used by the winged cherub intentionally , to represent its own self, disguised in the natural animal.

4th point is my own, after all if the winged cherub came to Eve in the Garden not disguised Eve would have ran away, so the serpent (a natural animal) was used instead. And so Eve was not afraid to talk to animals through her penal gland ( my two pennies).

Hence the reason for both creatures referred to in the Bible.

Even with the "data collected by your video speaker, she" sees figures different from fallen sinning cherubs, I wonder why they appear as different creatures and alien figures? Part of their deception?


D" It is all a false analogy that you created to bend scripture to fit your traditions

Rob" Created, made up? I don't think so. The Bible says to look up all the verses. And than do what with them?

Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation

Bother more simile approach required here, a literal approach is meaningless. So do we ignore the verse Dave?

The sure foundation stone is Jesus.

Next consider

Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet:


Bother more simile approach required here, a literal approach is meaningless. So do we ignore the verse Dave?

A plumb bob is used to align the rocks (verses or data) up with each other to the foundation rock.

So this saraph and snake "rocks" are aligned using a plumb bob comparing these "rocks" to the sure foundation "rock" called Jesus.

Was Jesus a snake ? No Because Jesus is a saraph, a function meaning to "burning"

(My Vine software just hanged ---- bother----

I will have to shut down this webpage and restart again.)

I was going to look at the burning bush, alas does not use saraph though, maybe saraph is a function only near the Most High? Speculating is not good. SO my two pennies can only do so much.

My point is, I am doing what the Torah tells me to do, how to read torah and compare torah to whom? Since Jews reject the sure foundation stone, they cannot compare torah to anything, so they make up traditions and precepts of men, not that I blame them, they have missed the chief corner stone.

Now if you have any other place where the torah explains how the torah should be studied, I would like to know.

And you will notice the entire two chapters require a simile approach to answer the questions.

Also no where does the Inspired writings say to study using secular dictionaries or secular means.

Shalom

[Dave]

Predicative Adjectives, as Jr High grammar,
OK I get that, works well if we live in a secular world with secular dictionaries and the dictionaries dictate how to read secular writings.

Rob" Created, made up? I don't think so. The Bible says to look up all the verses. And than do what with them?
a) So saraph means "burning" or "firey".
Yes – the Jeff Brenner Method bears this out

b) It can be applied as a function, to snakes or special cherub angels.
Yes – it ca be applied differently – does not change its meaning
H8314 – שָׂרָף - śârâph
From H8313; burning, that is, (figuratively) poisonous (serpent); specifically a saraph or symbolical creature (from their copper color): - fiery (serpent), seraph.
saraph means "burning" or "firey" –will also accept: shinny – glowing – radiant - luminus

Both of these statements are facts, and you have to agree with me?
Sure

Now the term snake is also a simile approach, not literal approach because when looking up all the verses
We discover - Ge 3:1 no ordinary snake, a serpent
Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satanas,
Gen 3:1 But the serpent was shrewder than any animal of the field that Adonai Elohim made.
A created creature that God made!
Yep – this is 100% my teaching

Isa 14:29 Here we discover while the serpent is something,
the saraph is a flying saraph. Does this mean the serpent was a flying creature? Seems so?

If A=B and B=C then you can make C= anything
It is a false anology

How come ancient people like engrave Murduk as a flying serpent, and other people see this already, but Dave doesn't?
What? I say they are other gods – demons – shedim
Sometimes saraph is a serpent
Isa 6:1 I saw Adonai sitting on a throne… 2 Seraphim were standing above Him.
Your method proves that serpents are angels of the throne of God

4th point is my own, after all if the winged cherub came to Eve in the Garden not disguised Eve would have ran away, so the serpent

DONE

[rob]

Greetings Dave

I did some Jewish only research on the seraph.


SERAPHIM ():
By: Emil G. Hirsch, Immanuel Benzinger

Among many peoples of antiquity serpents played an important part in myth and folk-lore. For instance, there were Tiamat in the Babylonian legend of the Creation, and the Uræus serpent in Egypt. Consequently, since the Jews shared the superstitious ideas of surrounding nations in other respects, it should not be a matter of wonder if they adopted this notion as well. That the serpent filled a special rôle among them as a demoniacal being may be seen from the story of Adam's fall (Gen. iii.). In this connection the names "Dragon Spring" and "Serpent Pool" (places in the vicinity of Jerusalem) are worthy of being noted. A brazen serpent brings relief from the effects of the bite of the fiery serpents (Num. xxi. 9 et seq.) which Yhwh sent among his disobedient people in the wilderness. Isaiah (xiv. 29, xxx. 6) speaks of fiery, flying serpents and dragons; and a brazen serpent, Nehushtan, stood in the Temple at Jerusalem, and was an object of worship until the time of Hezekiah, who destroyed it as being idolatrous (II Kings xviii. 4 et seq.). The worship of Nehushtan was plainly a remnant of ancient superstition, and was reconciled with the worship of Yhwh by connecting Nehushtan with the scourge of snakes in the wilderness and the rescue from them (Num. xxi. 9 et seq.). Therefore the theory seems possible, even probable, that the seraphim have their counterpart in the flying serpents of Isaiah (comp. also II Esd. xv. 29). It is only natural that these winged guardians of Yhwh's throne were soon ranked as higher beings and invested with the human form or with some features of the human body; and it was because of the very fact that they were adopted into the Yhwh cult that they were, in process of time, ennobled and spiritualized.

ROB : notice his remarks !!

www.thetorah.com/article/the-seraphim
The Seraphim
Dr. Richard Lederman

YHWH is never accompanied by any other being when he appears in the Torah.[6] In Isaiah, however, not only is YHWH accompanied by seraphim, but they refer to God as YHWH of Hosts (יְ־הוָה צְבָאוֹת), a phrase that is never used in the Torah,[7] but which appears 260 times in the rest of the Hebrew Bible. The phrase refers to YHWH’s retinue, i.e., the idea that together with YHWH in heaven are other, lesser divinities, perhaps of more than one sort.

YHWH’s Army - The term “hosts” (צבאות) has a military connotation, and indeed, we have at least one biblical reference to celestial beings fighting alongside YHWH, and on his behalf:


Divine Council - Sometimes, these beings appear as part of a divine council. For example,
Job (1:6)[14]

One day the divine beings presented themselves before YHWH, and the Adversary came along with them….

ROB: The Author is referring to seraph creatures

Psalm 82 (1, 6)

God stands in the divine assembly; among the divine beings He pronounces judgment…. I had taken you for divine beings, sons of the Most High, all of you.

Ps 89:6 Your wonders, YHWH, are praised by the heavens, Your faithfulness, too, in the assembly of holy beings.
89:7 For who in the skies can equal YHWH, can compare with YHWH among the divine beings,
89:8 a God greatly dreaded in the council of holy beings, held in awe by all around Him?
89:9 O YHWH, God of hosts, who is mighty like You, O YHWH? Your faithfulness surrounds You

Here YHWH is praised by other divinities, who are part of YHWH’s council; they call him YHWH god of Hosts. Isaiah’s seraphim should, thus, be seen as a particular instantiation of this general theme.

Two of the creatures’ wings in Ezekiel’s vision are spread out to touch the wings of the neighboring creature, suggesting that they are standing in a circle. The second pair of wings covers their bodies, just as Isaiah’s seraphim do, but unlike Isaiah’s seraphim, these creatures do not have a third pair of wings to cover their faces. (We will discuss the significance of this later.)

A second similarity between the seraphim and chayot is the tremendous amount of noise they make:


However, there are several important differences between the seraphim and the chayot. First, Ezekiel’s creatures are attached to each other, and they never turn, but move as a block, ostensibly on wheels (אופנים; Ezek 1:15). They do not move around independently the way Isaiah’s seraphim do.[21]

Second, Isaiah’s seraphim float above YHWH (Isaiah 6:2), while the former are below him:

Ezekiel’s vision is reminiscent of another epithet of YHWH’s, “the one enthroned upon the cherubim” or “who dwells among the cherubim” (1 Sam 4:4; 2 Sam 6:2). In fact, in a later encounter with the creatures (ch. 10), Ezekiel does refer to them as cherubim. Ezekiel’s four-faced cherubim are a unique variant on a theme found throughout the Bible and the ancient Near East, that of winged protective figures that either carry the divine throne or, more likely, surround the deity seated on the throne (or standing on a podium) with their extended wings.

Moreover, these cherubim are static, in contrast to the “hosts” of YHWH in the stories of Micaiah and Job and the seraphim of Isaiah 6, who sit in the divine council, act independently, and are consulted or sent on errands by YHWH.

Although Isaiah 6 is the only biblical passage to describe divine beings called seraphim, it is not the only passage to use the term at all. The term seraph in singular and plural (seraphim) appears in Numbers (21:4–9), in the story of the serpents attacking the Israelites in the wilderness. There it refers to venomous snakes, probably a general term for cobras or cobra-like snakes that inhabit the wilderness.

Deuteronomy 8:15 also describes seraph serpents as a danger one finds in the wilderness. Neither Numbers nor Deuteronomy describes the serpents as being winged; however, the book of Isaiah does describe seraphim as flying serpents

the Seraphim derived their name from the seraph(im) as known elsewhere in the Hebrew Bible but that they were developed in Isaiah’s vision by association with the Cherubim, whose own form as well as function seem also to be reflected in the description.”[26]

Pharaohs wore the uraeus serpent on their crowns and were often depicted standing beneath winged serpents, whose wings were outspread in a gesture of protection. The Judean King Hezekiah used the winged uraeus imagery in his seals in the period before he surrendered to the Assyrian King Sennacherib, (701 B.C.E.), after which he expunged the Egyptian iconic winged-serpent from the Judahite elites’ repertoire.[28]

Since Isaiah was a contemporary of Hezekiah and active in the king’s court (as is clear from many passages in the books of Isaiah and Kings), it would be logical to surmise that the seraphim of Isaiah’s vision are similarly understood as winged serpents accompanying the divine King YHWH, who, after all, is described in this vision in royal terms as seated on a “high and lofty throne” (Isa 6:1).[29]

The six wings in Isaiah 6 signify an increase in potency even by comparison with the four wings that the uraei have on the Judean name seals. But the point may be that the seraphim that are seen by Isaiah use none of their pairs of wings to protect their lord; instead, apart from the one pair used for flight, the wings function as a way to protect themselves against the rays of the holiness that were coming from their lord and spreading out everywhere.

ROB" so the burning ones are really special cherubs.

reformjudaism.org/learning/torah-study/torah-commentary/healing-looking-seraph-serpents-and-theotherapy
D'Var Torah By: Fred N. Reiner

This strange story appears amid noteworthy events: Miriam dies suddenly at Kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin (Numbers 20:1). The community rails against Moses and Aaron because there is no food or water, and Moses commits the famous sin of striking the rock to produce water (Numbers 20:2-13). Moses seeks to traverse Edomite territory and is refused passage (Numbers 20:14-21). Suddenly Aaron dies and is mourned for thirty days (Numbers 20:22-29). Now Moses is the sole survivor leading the people, and the people are still complaining.

How can God break through the continuous complaining and get the Israelites to focus on their journey? What will cause the Israelites to repent their sinful speaking out against God and Moses? How are we modern readers to understand these magical serpents that kill and the copper serpent that heals? Does God provide an idol in this story to save the people?

The magical homeopathic therapy for these snakebites is troubling for us modern monotheists. Did the authors of the Torah believe in the curative power of looking at snakes?

We read that King Hezekiah "abolished the shrines and smashed the pillars. . . . He also broke into pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until that time the Israelites had been offering sacrifices to it; it was called Nehushtan" (II Kings 18:4).

How, then, can we understand this symbol and this story, we who are cautioned so strictly against idolatry?

What is the difference between the serpent and the crucifix? How can we understand the serpent in this story in Numbers? The Mishnah tells us that looking at the serpent was not what cured the Israelites. Rather it was the act of looking up to God that cured them (Mishnah Rosh HaShanah 3:8).

Neither the bronze serpent nor the rod of Moses is an idol in these stories. They are not props for magic, but devices that lead the people to direct their thoughts to God. In the story of the bronze serpent, the people are not sick, but sinful. The serpent is elevated to direct the thoughts of the people upward to God and away from the danger at their feet. Think about that. Even today, we often need something to help us redirect our thoughts toward God and away from the dangers that confront us.

ROB: The Rabbi did not investigate the meaning of the seraph upon the standard?

hebrewcollege.edu/blog/the-power-of-symbols/
The Power of Symbols
By Rabbi Brian Besser Jun 11, 2021

A material emblem, by itself, is morally neutral. It derives its power from words and deeds accrued by association with it. The image of the “seraph snake” is morally ambiguous, because it brings together two polar opposites. The snake is the lowliest of creatures in Jewish lore. The snake was responsible for the first human transgression (inciting Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit), after which God declaimed: “more cursed shall you be than all cattle and beasts; on your belly shall you crawl and dirt shall you eat all the days of your life.” (Genesis 3:14) The snake represents our earthly selves, our physical cravings, what the Hasidic sages call nefesh b’heimit, our “animal souls.”

So Adonai sent poisonous snakes (nechashim seraphim) to bite the people1and many died. The people came to Moses and said: we have sinned. Intercede with Adonai to get rid of the snakes! Then Adonai said to Moses: make a seraph2 figure and mount it upon a standard4. Anyone bitten3 who gazes at it shall live. So Moses made a bronze snake3 (nachash nechoshet) and mounted it upon a standard4; all who looked at it recovered.” (Numbers 21:4-9)

1 The root meaning of seraph is “to burn,” employed here for “poisonous” in reference to “the burning effect of the venom” (according to Robert Alter).

ROB: Rabbi Besser agrees Saraph is a function meaning "burning".

2 I leave “seraph” untranslated here, in order to preserve the word’s association with angels (see below).

ROB: Rabbi Besser agrees Saraph in Numbers 21:8 refer to "burning angels".

3 Rashi notes the pun between: nachash (“snake”) and nechoshet (“bronze”); I would expand it into a triple pun including:nashach (“bitten”).


But we human beings are also part divine, and that’s the seraph piece of the composite emblem. The seraph5 is an angelic creature, made famous in Isaiah’s prophetic vision: “the seraphim stood in attendance and called out to one another: “holy, holy, holy is Adonai of Hosts! The whole world is full of the Divine Presence.” (Isaiah 6:2) The seraph represents our transcendent selves, our moral conscience, what the Hasidim term nefesh Elohit, our “godly souls.”6

In the Torah, the “seraph snake” is both an agent of destruction and an instrument of healing. First, it slays the sinful Israelites with its venemous bite. However, after they perform teshuvah (repentance), it cures them. The dual function of the emblem, for death or life, exactly mirrors the duality of the human heart, for evil or good.

ROB" Our Rabbi fails to see TWO seraph were upon the standard, one symbolized bad the other symbolized good, not dual function of the emblem.

Moses had made, for the Israelites were offering sacrifices to it as the snake-god Nechushtan.” (II Kings 18:4) Apparently, the sacred icon, originally fashioned by Moses himself at God’s command, had devolved after many generations into an idol.

ROB" Because is was an idol, representing a elohiym power. Rabbi Besser says the noun form of seraph is associated with angels. He is correct with this point.


youtu.be/cORwf_EmbAI

The Bible's most misrepresented creatures - The Seraph. Biblical Hebrew insight by Professor Lipnick

The saraph were terrifying angels who guard the throne of God by means of fire.

ROB" these angels should be called "burners" not seraph.

Wow, so many Jewish commentaries agree with me. I also note many fail to see the significance of the seraph upon the standard.



Shalom

[Dave]

YHWH accompanied by seraphim, but they refer to God as YHWH of Hosts
ROB: The Author is referring to seraph creatures
OK

Moreover, these cherubim are static, in contrast to the “hosts” of YHWH in the stories of Micaiah and Job and the seraphim of Isaiah 6, who sit in the divine council, act independently, and are consulted or sent on errands by YHWH.
ROB" so the burning ones are really special cherubs. - NO

ROB: Rabbi Besser agrees Saraph in Numbers 21:8 refer to "burning angels".
He is wrong – it is referring to Num 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents
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In the Torah, the “seraph snake” is both an agent of destruction and an instrument of healing.
ROB" Our Rabbi fails to see TWO seraph were upon the standard, one symbolized bad the other symbolized good, not dual function of the emblem.

Dual function – bad vs good – how the archon / the world make life hard
To save a life (good) sometimes you have to cut off a limb (bad)
Today the choice = you cholesterol is too high you will die of heart disease – or take a statin drug and die of liver failure instead
Today the choice = die of a virus – or die from the vaccine

Book of Jubilees 10:9 And He said: "Let the tenth part of them remain before him, and let nine parts descend into the place of condemnation." 10. And one of us 4 He commanded that we should teach Noah all their medicines;

1 Enoch 6-8 the fallen angels of Gen 6 also taught their women medicines, spells, and potions

(wiki) The caduceus (☤; /kəˈdjuːʃəs, -siəs/; Latin: cādūceus, from Greek: κηρύκειον kērū́keion "herald's wand, or staff") is the staff carried by Hermes in Greek mythology and consequently by Hermes Trismegistus in Greco-Egyptian mythology. The same staff was borne by other heralds like Iris, the messenger of Hera. The short staff is entwined by two serpents, sometimes surmounted by wings. In Roman iconography, it was depicted being carried in the left hand of Mercury, the messenger of the gods.

Some accounts assert that the oldest imagery of the caduceus is rooted in Mesopotamia with the Sumerian god Ningishzida; his symbol, a staff with two snakes intertwined around it, dates back to 4000 BC to 3000 BC.[3]

Wow, so many Jewish commentaries agree with me
That Ezk 28 proves your satan is a self-made god of evil – rebelling, hating, and opposing God’s right to rule the universe
I must have missed that part

[rob]

Greetings Dave

Where is my post? Come on Ubuntu stop losing my posts

Rob posted

ROB: Rabbi Besser agrees Saraph in Numbers 21:8 refer to "burning angels".

Dave replied

He is wrong – it is referring to Num 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents

So another Jewish Rabbi is wrong is he?

Wrong to say the saraph in Numbers 21:8 refers to angels?

I see. Now you don't like three Jewish Rabbis

Rabbi Besser
Rabbi Cahn
Rabbi Apple

SHalom