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Post by Dave on Feb 23, 2022 21:48:06 GMT -5
D"Gen 3:6 Now the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a thing of lust for the eyes, and that the tree was desirable for imparting wisdom. So she took of its fruit and she ate. She also gave to her husband who was with her and he ate R" Doesn't say Adam was with Eve all the time,
No – but it does say he was with her when she took a bite
D"Then why does she teach that Christ cannot be God? Then why does she teach that God died Then why does she teach man has no spirit Then why does she teach there is no First Fruits only the grave Then why does she teach no such thing as baptism of the Spirit Then why does she teach you can fall from God’s Grace as the angels do Then why does she teach there are two gods lock in a Great Controversy in heaven Then why does she teach daily rituals to maintain your saslvation?
R" too many themes Dave. What is you point here? The question is – if she is a prophet of God why do you and her preach against mainstream Judeo-Christianity
D"In favor of a two god system that elevates your Hebrew satan to godhood? R" Facts you say yourself Dave, the Satanas is a demi god, are they not ?, Who says this Robert – only you do so you can argue against yourself
The Beast of revelation is not a demi-god – Why do you continue to make up and invent or misrepresent?
SO what was this gnosis Paul told Timothy to avoid? You have been posting it for more than 2 years – yet you cannot find it? You have posted anything considered gnostic by anyone – except James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, or Thomas You have been posting it for more than 2 years – yet pretend you don’t know Do you really think Paul wrote to not listen to Paul? – or the authors of the agl/NT
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D"WAS ADAM DECEIVED BY SATAN?
EGW: YES "Satan, who is the father of lies, deceived Adam in a similar way, telling him that he need not obey God, that he would not die if he transgressed the law" (Evangelism, p. 598).
BIBLE: NO "And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner" (1 Timothy 2:14).
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
WAIT – just a minute ago Ellen White said that Adam was not even there – Eve was alone Robert also plays the same word game – it wasn’t Eve that fell – it wasn’t until Adam took the bite Roberts also admits that Eve lied first – but when the serpent deceived it was a sin of lie
This is just male centric / male dominate – chauvinist R" Adam was a prince and lord of the home, His kingdom is ruled by Him.
Nothing male dominate – chauvinist about this, this is Hebrew.
Dave quotes "EGW: YES "Satan, who is the father of lies, deceived Adam in a similar way, telling him that he need not obey God, that he would not die if he transgressed the law" (Evangelism, p. 598)"
Rob quotes a fuller context" Satan, who is the father of lies, deceived Adam in a similar way, telling him that he need not obey God, that he would not die if he transgressed the law. But Adam fell, and by his sin he opened the floodgates of woe upon our world. Again, Satan told Cain that he need not follow expressly the command of God in presenting the slain lamb as an offering. Cain obeyed the voice of the deceiver; and because God did not accept his offering, while He showed His approval of Abel's offering, Cain rose up in anger and slew his brother. " (Evangelism, p. 598)"
Sometimes you have to read the context Dave. Cain was not obeying God fully. So Cain was deceived by a lukewarm approach with God. Adam was deceived in this kind of approach.
I ask you a direct question about satan deceiving Adam 1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. You answered with some comment about Cain
Ro 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one;
What does this say in Greek?
Rom 5:17 εἰ γὰρ τῷ τοῦ ἑνὸς παραπτώματι ὁ θάνατος ἐβασίλευσε διὰ τοῦ ἑνός,
Conjunction – clausal statement - εἰ γὰρ – for if – and if – but if – A then B Subject – παραπτώματι – side slip - error Adverb - τῷ τοῦ ἑνὸς – by the one – dative = "to"; also location "in", "at"; instrument, "with" – origin of , by Predicate Nonnativect - ὁ θάνατος – the death
by the error of the one = death death = by the error of the one
VERB - ἐβασίλευσε - to rule (literally or figuratively): - king, reign. Διά - A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through τοῦ - the - Genative - possession, "of" ἑνός – one
(by the error of the one = death) reigns/rules -THROUGH the one (death = by the error of the one) reigns/rules -THROUGH the one
Rom 5:17 for if by the offence of the one the death did reign through the one, Rom 5:17 For if by the one man’s transgression, death reigned through the one, Rom 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one;
Notice what EGW does say: I quote" Eve really believed the words of Satan, but her belief did not save her from the penalty of sin. She disbelieved the words of God, and this was what led to her fall. Correct the error belongs to Eve – according to Ellen White Adam was not even present
The serpent plucked the fruit of the forbidden tree and placed it in the hands of the half-reluctant Eve. This is a real deal breaker – the archon are not allowed to force – only suggest – only whispers in your ears – suggestion to your mind
So Adam did not offend as Eve did, He decided to die with her, so his offence is as Scripture declares it. This is the Jewish version of love Adam love Eve so much – he chose to follow her into the lower world Adam loved Eve so much – his choice was to follow Eve into hell
You argued against this Rabbinic idea Bah blah blah you say - where is his scripture you say But if Ellen White says it – it become gospel for you Are you sure you are not biased Do you really have a consistent theology
You argued and argued against the Rabbi for suggesting this Why are you not attacking Ellen White fort saying the same thing?
DOUBLE STANDARD
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Post by Dave on Feb 24, 2022 4:29:45 GMT -5
Where do you get this from? Either you are deliberately posting nonsense just to hear yourself talk – or you are less than serious
Dictionary - word man - demigod the offspring of a god and a mortal, or a mortal raised to divine rank.
Demi-god = ½ human + ½ god – fathered by the bane elohiym in Gen 6 When have I ever indicated that the Beast of Revelation was fathered in Gen 6? When have I ever indicated that the Beast of revelation was the child of a mortal woman
Your attempt to make up facts is rejected Why do you think it honest to misrepresent others? Why do you have to lie to make your point?
Your Great Controversy is between two gods in heaven The Great Contest is between man and WORLD and man and archon (Beast of Revelation) YES – there are ‘other gods’ on earth – false prophets on earth – because the Contest is on earth Jews – therefore Messianic Jews – Gnostic Christians – the authors of the agl/NT do not have a god of evil – they have Gen 3:15 Contest No one believed in your satan god of evil until Rome invented him
Your effort to support your doctrine by Ellen White who contradicts scripture is so flawed its crazy NEVER WILL ANYONE HERE EVER BOW TO YOUR SATAN GOD If Ellen White supports satan as a god then she is a satanic worshiper and a false prophet THER IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and He is absolute No angel ever changed God’s creation against God’s Will – absolute satanic blasphemy
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2022 4:30:49 GMT -5
D"No – but it does say he was with her when she took a bite R Maybe, it suggests to me Eve at the apple first and sinned, than went to Adam and ate the apple again to get him to sin with her. Much of the story lack details in Scripture.
D"The question is – if she is a prophet of God why do you and her preach against mainstream Judeo-Christianity R If there was no prophet, I would still be against Jewish talmud and other writings not inspired. I came to the conclusion about Satan long before I met SDA faith, it comes natural from reading Scripture, and Moses torah.
D"Who says this Robert – only you do so you can argue against yourself R" so mow the archon satanas shedim are not gods? What about this verse than?
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
And this one
Ps 82:1 Elohiym standeth in the congregation of the mighty; Elohiym judgeth among the gods.
Who are these other elohiym powers who oppose the true elohiym power Dave?
D" The Beast of revelation is not a demi-god – Why do you continue to make up and invent or misrepresent? R" Oh so sorry, I thought you quoted this. OK so what are these satanas archon shedim then? Just creatures God designed and created to tempt man to sin? If that is the case why do the shedim intend to destroy the world God created?
Re 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
God comes to rescue earth when creatures are bent on destroying earth, doesn't sound like anybody on God's side does it?
D"I ask you a direct question about satan deceiving Adam R" I gave you a EGW quote and you missed reading it
Did you miss it?
"An expression of sadness came over the face of Adam. He appeared astonished and alarmed. To the words of Eve he replied that this must be the foe against whom they had been warned; and by the divine sentence she must die. In answer she urged him to eat, repeating the words of the serpent, that they should not surely die. She reasoned that this must be true, for she felt no evidence of God's displeasure, but on the contrary realized a delicious, exhilarating influence, thrilling every faculty with new life, such, she imagined, as inspired the heavenly messengers. Adam understood that his companion had transgressed the command of God, disregarded the only prohibition laid upon them as a test of their fidelity and love. There was a terrible struggle in his mind. He mourned that he had permitted Eve to wander from his side. But now the deed was done; he must be separated from her whose society had been his joy. How could he have it thus? Adam had enjoyed the companionship of God and of holy angels. He had looked upon the glory of the Creator. He understood the high destiny opened to the human race should they remain faithful to God. Yet all these blessings were lost sight of in the fear of losing that one gift which in his eyes outvalued every other. Love, gratitude, loyalty to the Creator—all were overborne by love to Eve. She was a part of himself, and he could not endure the thought of separation. He did not realize that the same Infinite Power who had from the dust of the earth created him, a living, beautiful form, and had in love given him a companion, could supply her place. He resolved to share her fate; if she must die, he would die with her. After all, he reasoned, might not the words of the wise serpent be true? Eve was before him, as beautiful and apparently as innocent as before this act of disobedience. She expressed greater love for him than before. No sign of death appeared in her, and he decided to brave the consequences. He seized the fruit and quickly ate."
Adam was not deceived as Eve was, Ellen White says so, and so they both have agreement after all.
D"This is a real deal breaker – the archon are not allowed to force – only suggest – only whispers in your ears – suggestion to your mind R" Well than you better start reading the Bible properly... Jesus called one of your chief shedim a liar, the father of liars and a murderer. A creature that intentionally kills and destroys people.
D"This is the Jewish version of love R Glad you liked what God told EGW to write.
D"But if Ellen White says it – it become gospel for you R" I use her writings, as a Hebrew English translator.
D"DOUBLE STANDARD R" No double standard, if a Hebrew to English translator is inspired, than I can read the hebrew correctly.
D"Demi-god = ½ human + ½ god – fathered by the bane elohiym in Gen 6
When have I ever indicated that the Beast of Revelation was fathered in Gen 6?
R" Oh sorry you confused me with two different evil beings of RA.
The Beast of Revelation is who? How is it different to shedim?
D" Your Great Controversy is between two gods in heaven
The Great Contest is between man and WORLD and man and archon (Beast of Revelation)
YES – there are ‘other gods’ on earth – false prophets on earth – because the Contest is on earth
Jews – therefore Messianic Jews – Gnostic Christians – the authors of the agl/NT do not have a god of evil – they have Gen 3:15 Contest
No one believed in your satan god of evil until Rome invented him
R" Funny Ancient CHinese pictograph depict the hidden, secret, one who deceives.
Who is this creature in Job than negating God's words about Job being perfect than? Can't be an attorney because he causes Job to lose all his property and to kill his children. Who is the snake that kills Israel when they sin against God? Can't be a creature doing God's will because the creature causes some of God's people to die of snake bite and of sin. Has to be some creature that opposes God and His right to save people.
Your effort to support your doctrine by Ellen White who contradicts scripture is so flawed its crazy
NEVER WILL ANYONE HERE EVER BOW TO YOUR SATAN GOD
R" Funny who would want to bow to such as RA creature. Jesus didn't when asked to.
If Ellen White supports satan as a god then she is a satanic worshiper and a false prophet
R" EGW would never support satan as a god, neither would I, such a thing is to have faith in Satan's powers, and this opposing shedim come sinning angel has no powers against God.
THER IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and He is absolute
No angel ever changed God’s creation against God’s Will – absolute satanic blasphemy
R I see. Funny you also have coal created on day 5, I thought coal was made during the Great Noachan Flood, 2400 years after the Creation Week?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 24, 2022 6:11:17 GMT -5
D"The question is – if she is a prophet of God why do you and her preach against mainstream Judeo-Christianity R If there was no prophet, I would still be against Jewish talmud and other writings not inspired. I came to the conclusion about Satan long before I met SDA faith, it comes natural from reading Scritpure, and Moses torah. WOW – this makes perfect sense now – you were a satan believer before you were introduced to scripture – so you found a church that agrees with your satanic beliefsD"Who says this Robert – only you do so you can argue against yourself R" so mow the archon satanas shedim are not gods? What about this verse than? Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. And this one Ps 82:1 Elohiym standeth in the congregation of the mighty; Elohiym judgeth among the gods. Who are these other elohiym powers who oppose the true elohiym power Dave? So serious RobertYou have the reasoning skills of a toddler on the play ground You just argue words – just to argueThe BEAST of revelation is NOT in heaven – he is cast into the earth of Gen 1:1All of the ‘other gods’ are of the BEAST All of the ‘other gods’ are of this WORLD The most elevated ‘other god’ of this WORLD is no more than a ‘sar’ Caesar is an ‘other god’ – he is NOT a god in heaven – he is of the WORLD There is NOT two gods of equal stature at war with one another in heavenNo angel ever changed God’s creation – there is no such thing as evolution No angel ever decided to become a god of his own free will – man did No angel ever decided to change into a mortal being to father children D" The Beast of revelation is not a demi-god – Why do you continue to make up and invent or misrepresent? R" Oh so sorry, I thought you quoted this. OK so what are these satanas archon shedim then? Just creatures God designed and created to tempt man to sin? If that is the case why do the shedim intend to destroy the world God created? Re 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. God comes to rescue earth when creatures are bent on destroying earth, doesn't sound like anybody on God's side does it? Correct – just sounds like man Look around you – who is bent on destroying the earth? Man is!D"I ask you a direct question about satan deceiving AdamR" I gave you a EGW quote and you missed reading it Did you miss it?I asked you A = D"I ask you a direct question about satan deceiving Adam You gave me B = Adam understood that his companion had transgressed the command of God, disregarded the only prohibition laid upon them as a test of their fidelity and love. There was a terrible struggle in his mind. I ask you a direct question about satan deceiving Adam1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. You answered with some comment about Cain D"This is a real deal breaker – the archon are not allowed to force – only suggest – only whispers in your ears – suggestion to your mind R" Well than you better start reading the Bible properly... Jesus called one of your chief shedim a liar, the father of liars and a murderer. A creature that intentionally kills and destroys people. YES – they can lie YES – their lies are responsible for your death – if you listen to themAdam loved Eve so much he choose to follow her into hell D"This is the Jewish version of love R Glad you liked what God told EGW to write. D"DOUBLE STANDARD R" No double standard, if a Hebrew to English translator is inspired, than I can read the hebrew correctly. Here are your comments about the Rabbinic Adam and Eve SermonI get glimpse that our world is on stage for 7 days, the 7th is a 1000 years of wedding and judgement in heaven. That leaves 6 days. Jesus died on the 4th day on the cross, leaving 2000 years after cross, and 4000 years before the cross. Problem is Jesus is 33 years old when He died, so time is out a little. Hence the beginning of time devolving downhill begins when sin on earth begins, 33 years later from Genesis. So our Rabbi saying Adam and Eve sinned an hour latter is really weird? Shalom Before you write off EGW so easily, why not read the EGW material yourself?
text.egwwritings.org/
Yet this was but the beginning of His condescension! It would have been an almost infinite humiliation for the Son of God to take man's nature even when Adam stood in innocence in Eden. But Jesus accepted humanity when the race had been weakened by 4000 years of sin. Like every child of Adam He accepted the results of the working of the law of heredity. These results were shown in the history of His earthly ancestors. He came with such a heredity to share our temptations and give us the example of a sinless life.
Satan hated Christ. He hated Him who pledged Himself to redeem sinners. Yet into the world where Satan claimed dominion, God permitted His Son to come, a helpless babe, subject to the weakness of humanity, to meet life's peril in common with every soul, to fight the battle as every child of humanity must fight it—at the risk of failure and eternal loss.
The heart of the human father looks into the face of his little child and trembles at the thought of life's peril. He longs to shield him from temptation and conflict. To meet a bitterer conflict and more fearful risk, God gave His only-begotten Son.
And here
Satan had pointed to Adam's sin as proof that God's law could not be obeyed. In our humanity, Christ was to redeem Adam's failure. But when Adam was assailed by the tempter, none of the effects of sin were upon him. He stood in the strength of perfect manhood, possessing full vigor of mind and body. Surrounded with the glories of Eden, he was in daily communion with heavenly beings.
It was not thus with Jesus when He entered the wilderness to cope with Satan. For 4000 years the race had been decreasing in physical strength, in mental power, and in moral worth; and Christ took upon Him the infirmities of degenerate humanity. Only thus could He rescue man from the lowest depths of his degradation.
And here Lucifer had been the covering cherub, the highest of all created beings. He had been foremost in revealing God's purposes to the universe. After he had sinned, his power to deceive was the more deceptive, and unveiling his character was more difficult because of the exalted position he had held with the Father.
God could have destroyed Satan and his sympathizers, but He did not do this. Force, compelling power, is found only under Satan's government. The Lord's authority rests on goodness, mercy, and love, and these principles are the means to be used. God's government is moral, and truth and love are to be the prevailing power.
In the councils of heaven it was decided that time must be given for Satan to develop the principles of his government. He had claimed that these were superior to God's. Time was given for the working of Satan's principles, that they might be seen by the heavenly universe. For 4000 years, Christ was working for man's
And finally here
Said Paul: “If the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: and if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.” 1 Corinthians 15:16-18. If for 4000 years the righteous had gone directly to heaven at death, how could Paul have said that if there is no resurrection, “they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished”?
When about to leave His disciples, Jesus did not tell them that they would soon come to Him: “I go to prepare a place for you,” He said. “And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself.” John 14:2, 3. Paul tells us further, that “the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the Archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” And he adds: “Comfort one another with these words.” 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. At the coming of the Lord, the fetters of the tomb shall be broken and the “dead in Christ” shall be raised to eternal life.
You will notice the EGW writing pick up on the cherub who sinned...the verse you reject.
Shalom If Ellen White says it – its Gospel for you If the Rabbi says it – you babble on about your satan godI asked you about A You posted B and talked about BGo read the thread yourselfThe Beast of Revelation is who? Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … the old serpent, - he that is called the Devil and Satanas Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … the ancient serpent, - called the devil and satanas Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … the old serpent, - who is called 'Devil,' and 'the Adversary Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … that old serpent, - called the Devil, and Satanas Scripture - we know that the ancient serpent was a biological creature Gnostic - the Beast was the first sentint made with some matter (some biology) Angels in heavn are NOT 3D biology How is it different to shedim?Rev 12:9 … and his angels were cast down with him. – (messengers, agents, offspring, bane elohiym, shedim, Jinn, archon, WATCHERS – other gods)Rev 12:9 … and his angels were thrown down with him. – (messengers, agents, offspring, bane elohiym, Jinn, shedim, archon, WATCHERS – other gods)Rev 12:9 … and his messengers were cast forth with him. – (messengers, agents, offspring, bane elohiym, shedim, Jinn, archon, WATCHERS – other gods )Rev 12:9 … and his angels were cast out with him. – (messengers, agents, offspring, bane elohiym, Jinn, shedim, archon, WATCHERS – other gods )And King Solomon tells us that the shedim are biological Gnostic - the archon are made with some matter (some biology) Angels in heaven are not 3D biology Gen 3:14 And Jehovah God said unto the serpent, … Gen 3:15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: – (messengers, agents, offspring, bane elohiym, Jinn, shedim, archon, WATCHERS – other gods )Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, … Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; – (messengers, agents, offspring, bane elohiym, Jinn shedim, archon, WATCHERS – other gods)Gen 3:14 And Jehovah God saith unto the serpent… Gen 3:15 and enmity I put between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; – (messengers, agents, offspring, bane elohiym, Jinn, shedim, archon, WATCHERS – other gods)Gen 3:14 And the lord god said vnto ye serpent: … Gen 3:15 I wyll also put enmitie betweene thee & the woman, betweene thy seede and her seede: – (messengers, agents, offspring, bane elohiym, Jinn, shedim, archon, Watchers – other gods)No one believed in your satan god of evil until Rome invented himR" Funny Ancient CHinese pictograph depict the hidden, secret, one who deceives.No has ever denied the Beast of Revelation – that old serpentYour effort to support your doctrine by Ellen White who contradicts scripture is so flawed its crazy NEVER WILL ANYONE HERE EVER BOW TO YOUR SATAN GOD R" Funny who would want to bow to such as RA creature. Jesus didn't when asked to. Jews and Christians only have One True God - and our real struggle is with the archon (Eph 6)If Ellen White supports satan as a god then she is a satanic worshiper and a false prophet R" EGW would never support satan as a god, neither would I, such a thing is to have faith in Satan's powers, and this opposing shedim come sinning angel has no powers against God. Jews and Christians only have One True God - and our real struggle is with the archon (Eph 6)THER IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and He is absolute No angel ever changed God’s creation against God’s Will – absolute satanic blasphemy R I see. Funny you also have coal created on day 5, I thought coal was made during the Great Noachan Flood, 2400 years after the Creation Week? What does one have to do with the other? And Dillon still has no response from you – is his video to technical for you?
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Post by Dave on Feb 24, 2022 9:54:45 GMT -5
Who is this creature in Job than negating God's words about Job being perfect than? Hebrew satan – an angel of the Lord – in service to the Lord
Can't be an attorney because he causes Job to lose all his property and to kill his children. Man caused all the harm to Job – Chaldeans even Hebrew satan protected Job’s life
Who is the snake that kills Israel when they sin against God? Can't be a creature doing God's will because the creature causes some of God's people to die of snake bite and of sin.
(Num 21:6) And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. Who sent the snakes – who is in control – who’s Will is being facilitated?
Num 21:6 So Adonai sent poisonous serpents among the people, and they bit the people and many of the people of Israel died. Who sent the snakes – who is in control – who’s Will is being facilitated?
Num 21:6 And Jehovah sendeth among the people the burning serpents, and they bite the people, and much people of Israel die; Who sent the snakes – who is in control – who’s Will is being facilitated?
Num 21:6 And Jehovah sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. Who sent the snakes – who is in control – who’s Will is being facilitated?
Has to be some creature that opposes God and His right to save people. How can creature obedient to God be opposing God? How can creatures under God’s command oppose their commander?
1Sa 16:15 So Saul’s courtiers said to him, “Behold now, an evil spirit from God is tormenting you. Who sent the evil spirits – who is in control – who’s Will is being facilitated?
1Sa 16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. Who sent the evil spirits – who is in control – who’s Will is being facilitated?
NEVER WILL ANYONE HERE EVER BOW TO YOUR SATAN GOD R" Funny who would want to bow to such as RA creature. Jesus didn't when asked to.
Jews and Christians only have One True God - and our real struggle is with the archon (Eph 6)
If Ellen White supports satan as a god then she is a satanic worshiper and a false prophet R" EGW would never support satan as a god, neither would I, such a thing is to have faith in Satan's powers, and this opposing shedim come sinning angel has no powers against God.
Jews and Christians only have One True God - and our real struggle is with the archon (Eph 6)
You and the SDA have two gods struggling over God’s sovereignty in heaven Jews and the Gnostic only have scripture
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
The Contest is between man and WORLD - man and archon
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Post by Dave on Feb 24, 2022 11:46:42 GMT -5
The Contest is between man and WORLD - man and archon
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
From God we came – we are here on a mission (Jer 1:5) – upon mortal death we return to God God came to earth – on a mission (Jer 1:5) – upon mortal death He returned to heaven
Ellen White preaches against Mainstream Judeo Christianity She denies the spirit – the spiritual – baptism of the Holy Spirit – First Fruits Ellen White does support satan as a god – in a two god controversy Satan can only be elevated to godhood – if The One True Creatior is diminished to something less than absolute
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2022 15:57:42 GMT -5
D"WOW – this makes perfect sense now – you were a satan believer before you were introduced to scripture – so you found a church that agrees with your satanic beliefs R" I smiled Dave, duh . If you read Scripture correctly you would learn. But you ignore the verses, heaps of them in fact.
(1) You claim God cannot create without negative dysfunctional natural things to overcome. That is a bogus assumption and a myth. It suggests God is not smart enough to create something different. Have you ever considered the constants in our universe, why even the universe constant K has 125 decimal places of accuracy, as do many others. Have you ever wondered why they are so precise, and it we were off by 1% the universe we know would not work, but destroy itself. Surely God can create a universe without RA of any kind in it, but he created a special universe around the darkness of RA for a reason? A reason Gnostics never consider.
Why was earth formless and void with a lack of light upon it? Full of RA if you will. There are two main ways to describe God's nature. First there is transgression. Transgression is the breaking of His moral laws concerning how one should love, love in a providing way and love in a responding way. These moral laws are set out in the Ten Commandment, known in the torah as the royal torah. Jews do not consider them any more special than their invented 613 directives, but that's because they fail to read the latter torah, they only read the former torah. James wrote the term "royal torah" in his scroll, because many were failing to have faith in elohiym powers, and instead seek a pious nature without love .
The other major way is missing God's powers. These things are not necessarily a sin caused directly by somebody, friction, entropy, disorder and chaos, darkness and friction, and disease causing insects, volcanoes and even rain and snow, are all examples of nature missing God's powers. Humans also miss daily God's powers, and the Hebrew writes this as "chata", which is incorrectly termed "sin". However missing God's powers from a human viewpoint is technically a sin, just as we eat the wrong food and listen to the wrong music and drink the wrong drink are also examples of missing. So earth was found in a missing state. OK but why? Why did earth have chaos and disorder and darkness upon the face of the deep?
The simple answer using the Bible method to read this hidden poetry book, is to evaluate every line upon line, here and there across the former torah and the latter torah. And ALL the verses have to have harmony, not as Dave reads, the major outweigh the minority.
Dave you doubt. You doubt that Ezekiel was a inspired prophet. You ignore some messages Ezekiel received from God so you consider yourself greater than Ezekiel.
You also doubt Matthew and Luke, saying they do not agree on the birth of Jesus.
You say the common received torah was edited by Rome, and that nobody before Rome read the torah correctly like we pioneers do in the later days. You say the only Satan in the OT was some unknown being helping humans do yester ra in the mind of humans, God was using a creature of RA to test humans and tempt them to sin.
What a bogus idea, to think God is a God of love would deliberately tempt humans to sin, or get one of His creatures of RA to do His dirty work. What kind of GOD is that you serve? Not a loving God. The question for the Gnostic is where did missing come from? It is not natural. Surely God so absolute in power could create a universe with different constants and hundreds of decimal places where not a single trace of ra exists, no dust, no friction, no darkness, no weird motions, no dangerous radiations, no nothing dies, no killing, no decomposing. So it this is possible to imagine, why was earth void and formless and darkness upon the face of the deep. Gnostics say it was that way naturally. Hebrew says it differently.
'choshek' is a Hebrew word we look up, looking for clues to why was RA already on the earth....The earth was not created during the Week of Creation for Adam and Eve, so clearly this planet was "erets" in Ancient Hebrew the word reads "Travelling Head Strong. Behold the Person" So earth was a "Travelling Head Strong" But who is the "person (s)" already on it?
Ex 14:20 And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night
As we journey in our studies, we learn the "choshek" is a strange thing, has darkness on one side of people and light on the other side of people.
Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived. 4 Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it. 5 Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it. 6 As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months
In this passage are many more clues. Job does not wish he was born, so asks for this "choshek" where it is also a simile of "death". Notice "choshek" is NOT like "daylight" or "night", it is something far deeper.
Ps 18:11 He made darkness his secret place;
GOD makes "choshek" a secret place? Why secret?
Ps 35:5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them. 6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them.
"choshek" is a place where God's messengers use to chase creatures and presecute them? Why what have these creatures done to deserve this "choshek" ?
Ps 35:11 ¶ False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge things that I knew not. 12 They rewarded me evil for good to the spoiling of my soul.
There is the answer here, some creatures speak RA instead of TOWB and thus are false witnesses, and so experience this "choshek" .
Ps 107:10 ¶ Such as sit in darkness and in the shadow of death,
So "choshek" is also a condition of death, where nothing exists...barely even the atoms of matter move.
Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God,
Now to conclude our study, we come to this latter rain verse sadly written in Greek rather than Hebrew.
Dave claims the word Satan is the Greek word satanas, not the Hebrew word satan, hence a different being, called the shedim of the OT, creatures Jews have legends about, but do not know where they came from. How convenient. Some like Dave claims these satanas creatures known to him as archons came from Somebody having sex withh woman in Genesis 6, these "sons of Gods" came down to earth and shape shifted to create demi-god shedim beings, who destroy humans with their agenda of self and RA.
But this conflicts what we are told of "choshek" already. Darkness is a condition upon some creatures who do RA and make false witness about God, hence such creatures choose to sin. So the "travelling Head Strong with Persons" known as earth, must have had RA creatures on earth long before Creation Week for Adam and Eve happened, and these creatures do RA, also sin, and thus experience this strange darkness called "choshek", such beings sit in the shadows of death. Could we term this "choshek" a kind of "hell"?
Hmm? Maybe. Not a pleasant place on earth without form and void. Re 12:1 ¶ And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
This passage invokes two time periods.
(1) A great wonder: A woman clothed in symbols...Who is this? No mention of where in the space? But she is in child birth.. also a symbol, as the whole passage is similes (poetic).
(2) Another wonder: A dragon creature drags third of the stars to earth. So here is a place in space. Earth. Ready to devour the child as soon as it is born. This implies the dragon and this third of stars was already on earth, ready to devour the child, inside the woman who comes to earth, to born her child. Re 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
This woman borned her child and later took her child to heaven to be with GOD.
Ps 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Here is the son of that woman speaking of the womb experience and of God from my mothers belly. Clearly the reference to "GOD" here, is that Jesus is referring to the woman as His GOD. Who is she? The Shadday, also functions as the Holy Spirit, also functions as a conduit for Wisdom, who also functions as a bird over her young, the Mother of All living ( a simile of Eve), and also who functions as a simile for church. Ps 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: Ps 22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
Clearly the dragon means to kill the child and do away with it. Why?
Re 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, to escape from the dragon chasing her. Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
IN this passage the dragon and his messengers are at war over Michael and his messengers. So the dragon and his messengers are banished to earth.
The dragon awaits for the woman in child birth to devour the child. This is the earth void and formless and darkness upon the face fo the deep. Sadly the messengers are not detailed as to who these are clearly.
Can we know for certain who these messengers might be from the heavens? D"So serious Robert You have the reasoning skills of a toddler on the play ground You just argue words – just to argue R" I see.
D"The BEAST of revelation is NOT in heaven – he is cast into the earth of Gen 1:1 R" Yes but he was once in heaven. ANd later cast to earth.
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven. You ignore this verse too. It was a bustle to you, something nothing. I say using Acts 26, the "chosek" is the darkness belongs to "Satan". And this name "Greek satanas" or Hebrew Satan, is the power of "chosek".
D"There is NOT two gods of equal stature at war with one another in heaven "R That';s funny, can't you read Scripture" Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven. You ignore this verse too. It was a bustle to you, something nothing.
D"Scripture - we know that the ancient serpent was a biological creature Gnostic - the Beast was the first sentint made with some matter (some biology) Angels in heavn are NOT 3D biology R" OH how come angels eat food every day, food called manna, the same food Israel once ate?
D"Gnostic - the archon are made with some matter (some biology) Angels in heaven are not 3D biology R" And who are these 200 creatures or so who decided to come down and have sex with women creating the RA demi-god alien humans than? Book of Enoch, you gnostic book say watchers came down, these are understood to mean cherubims, angels. Some gnostic say Yalaboath created the 200 creatures.... SO who did Dave, who is the Beast of Revelation?
D"(messengers, agents, offspring, bane elohiym, Jinn, shedim, archon, Watchers – other gods) R" blah blah, I asked who WHO created these shedim and who is the beast of revelation?
D"Who sent the snakes – who is in control – who’s Will is being facilitated? R" Why did GOD send the snakes Dave?
SOunds like 1 Kings 22, WHO will go to Israel that Israel may experience the fruit of their missing?
I will go.
So God allows the snake to go and bit and kill Israel His people. Is that God's will ? No.
God's will is to save people, but they choose to sin. SO God allows a destroyer to rule over them instead.
You assume the destroyer is a nice guy, OH nice snake, tempt me but don't kill me. Duh you must be dull?
God told the snake not to kill Job for a reason, because the snake would have killed JOb.
Just as the snake killed Israel. Nothing to do with God's will, Man chooses his destiny, God reacts to our free will.
D"How can creature obedient to God be opposing God? R" You assume to understand God and the Hebrew way of writing things. Hope it works for you.
D"How can creatures under God’s command oppose their commander? R" God is supreme, they don't dare rebuke God, but they do anyway, as much as God allows.
D"Who sent the evil spirits – who is in control – who’s Will is being facilitated? R" God is not mocked, a man reaps what he sows. D"In Seventh-day Adventist theology, the Great Controversy theme refers to the cosmic battle between Jesus Christ and Satan. R"Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and that war continues on earth among humans and God.
D"The Contest is between man and WORLD - R" correct, but who is the "travelling head strong, with Persons" on earth? Before Man arrived on earth? No humans on earth, but with other creatures on earth, not to test humans, but a continual war on earth as the war continued once in heaven.
ANother verse you ignore. Rev 12.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 24, 2022 23:39:15 GMT -5
(1) You claim God cannot create without negative dysfunctional natural things to overcome. That is a bogus assumption and a myth. Misrepresent away Robert – it is your only recourse You refuse to define your terms Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things. The very base of our reality is one proton + one electron – one positive + one negative It is a balance within natureIt suggests God is not smart enough to create something different. It indicates that God left His fingerprints all over creation to be rediscovered by any serious seeker Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2 = This delicate balance you call ra indicates an intelligent design – therefore an Intelligent DesignerHave you ever considered the constants in our universe, why even the universe constant K has 125 decimal places of accuracy, as do many others. Have you ever wondered why they are so precise, and it we were off by 1% the universe we know would not work, but destroy itself.It indicates that God left His fingerprints all over creation to be rediscovered by any serious seeker Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2 = This delicate balance you call ra indicates an intelligent design – therefore an Intelligent DesignerSurely God can create a universe without RA of any kind in it, Correct it is call the New heaven and the New Earthbut he created a special universe around the darkness of RA for a reason? Correct – God created our reality – no one else – it is as God Willed – as God Plannedbut he created a special universe around the darkness of RA for a reason A reason Gnostics never consider. Misrepresent away Robert – it is your only recourseAuthoritative TeachingAnd before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the worldGnostic – God created to reveal His GloryIsa 6:3 One called out to another, and said: “Holy, holy, holy, is Adonai-Tzva’ot! The whole earth is full of His glory.” Jewish - God created to reveal His Glorybible.org/question/what-purpose-did-god-create-worldIn general, Scripture teaches us that God created the world and all that is in it for His own glory and because He desired to share His life with others. The creation of all these things demonstrates His glory, His love, grace, mercy, wisdom, power, goodness, etc. Compare Psalm 19:1; 8:1; 50:6; 89:5. Rev 4:11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, For You created all things, and because of Your will they existed and were created!” Rom 11:36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever! Amen. Mainstream Judeo-Christianity - God created to reveal His GloryDave you doubt. You doubt that Ezekiel was a inspired prophet. You ignore some messages Ezekiel received from God so you consider yourself greater than Ezekiel.EXCUSE ME – I present to you common knowledge about Biblical history The debate over Ezekiel has been ongoing since the 5th century BC If the Torah of Moses is the standard for correctness – then Ezekiel contains error This is a matter of fact – it is a matter of record It is discussed by all serious Bible students Evidently you are extremely offended by the factsYou have no idea what I doubt or believe Your personal attack – your slander – is very respectful - Christian You also doubt Matthew and Luke, saying they do not agree on the birth of Jesus. Mathew and Luke do disagree on the birth of Jesus This is a matter of fact – it is a matter of record It is discussed by all serious Bible students Evidently you are extremely offended by the factsYou say the common received torah was edited by Rome, Correct Roman theology looks nothing like its Jewish foundation The common received text contains only what Romes allows You say the only Satan in the OT was some unknown being helping humans do yester ra in the mind of humans, God was using a creature of RA to test humans and tempt them to sin.Misrepresent away Robert – it is you only defenseYou say the only Satan in the OT was some unknown being helping humans do yesterNO I DO NOT SAY THISHebrew Satan in the OT is an angel of the Lord in serve to the Lord – heavens prosecutor Of course – the Beast of revelation was in the OT – the ancient serpent was there – Beelzebub and his shedim were there – 33 other gods are named in the OT – in face these same creatures were the other gods of all the 99% Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world. and all opposed to Gods chosen People the 1% The question for the Gnostic is where did missing come from? It is not natural.Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being. Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him. Psa 89:12 The heavens are Yours, also Yours the earth—the world and its fullness—You have founded them. All was created through Him and for Him. – God is absolute – God’s Plan – God’s Will------------- Ps 18:11 He made darkness his secret place; GOD makes "choshek" a secret place? Why secret?The Left hand is the Hand of MysteryPs 35:5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them. 6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them. "choshek" is a place where God's messengers use to chase creatures and presecute them? Why what have these creatures done to deserve this "choshek" ? WHAT – just a month ago you absolutely denied proportional punishment – grave or resurrectionPs 35:11 ¶ False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge things that I knew not. 12 They rewarded me evil for good to the spoiling of my soul. There is the answer here, some creatures speak RA instead of TOWB and thus are false witnesses, and so experience this "choshek" . Ps 107:10 ¶ Such as sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, Correct – Light = Truth – the opposite would be ignorance (ignorance of the truth)So "choshek" is also a condition of death, where nothing exists...barely even the atoms of matter move.YES – ignorance of God with be the cause of your second death – Lake of FireAc 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, Correct – Light = Truth – the opposite would be ignorance (ignorance of the truth)Re 12:1-4 - This passage invokes two time periods. (1) A great wonder: A woman clothed in symbols...Who is this? No mention of where in the space? But she is in child birth.. also a symbol, as the whole passage is similes (poetic).DUH – MORE ROBERT SERIOUSNESS The Holy Spirit is the womb of creation -= she is the medium / matrix / ether / that sustains the All Where is this – This is the moment of Creation(2) Another wonder: A dragon creature drags third of the stars to earth. So here is a place in space. Earth. Ready to devour the child as soon as it is born. This implies the dragon and this third of stars was already on earth, ready to devour the child, inside the woman who comes to earth, to born her child. YEP – all her child – all creation = entropyThe very first act of creation was the speaking of the word The very first act of creation was expansion Movement away from the source = entropy = ra Re 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. YES - Christ – the man child – the Son of GodThis woman borned her child and later took her child to heaven to be with GOD. No – not later – as in a separate event – it is all the moment of creationThe Gospel of the Egyptians Three powers came forth from him; they are the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son, from the living silence, what came forth from the incorruptible Father. These came forth from the silence of the unknown Father.
From that place, the three powers came forth, the three ogdoads that the Father brings forth in silence with his providence, from his bosom, i.e., the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son.
The <first> ogdoad, because of which the thrice-male child came forth, which is the thought, and the word, and the incorruption, and the eternal life, the will, the mind, and the foreknowledge, the androgynous Father.
The second ogdoad-power, the Mother, the virginal Barbelon, epititioch[...]ai, memeneaimen[...], who presides over the heaven, karb[...], the uninterpretable power, the ineffable Mother. She originated from herself [...]; she came forth; she agreed with the Father of the silent silence.
The third ogdoad-power, the Son of the silent silence, and the crown of the silent silence, and the glory of the Father, and the virtue of the Mother, he brings forth from the bosom the seven powers of the great light of the seven voices. And the word is their completion.
These are the three powers, the three ogdoads that the Father, through his providence, brought forth from his bosom. He brought them forth at that place.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) Another wonder: A dragon creature drags third of the stars to earth. So here is a place in space. Earth.YES = physical creation – all physical creation – Gen 1:2 Long before planet earth was formedRe 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. IN this passage the dragon and his messengers are at war over Michael and his messengers. So the dragon and his messengers are banished to earth.Correct – no contest – no long lasting war – no eternal controversy in heaven between two gods or erven two forcesThe dragon awaits for the woman in child birth to devour the child. This is the earth void and formless and darkness upon the face fo the deep. YES – Entropy awaits all creation – rocks, planets, solar systems, galaxies, biologySadly the messengers are not detailed as to who these are clearly.But precept upon precept, line upon line – we know who the serpent in the garden wasFrom King Solomon we are introduced to Beelzebub and the Shedim From scripture shedim, Lilith, and even satyrs are all validated From – scripture we know the identity of the aliens gods of the Levant From scripture we know who are real struggle is against = archon D"The BEAST of Revelation is NOT in heaven – he is cast into the earth of Gen 1:1 R" Yes but he was once in heaven. And later cast to earth.At the moment of his creation – end of story – there is no ongoing war in heaven between two gods or even two forcesRe 12:7 And there was war in heaven. You ignore this verse too. It was a bustle to you, something nothing.Rev 12:8 but they were not strong enough, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down—the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world. He was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. You ignore the rest of the passage – the dragon lost and is no more in heaven – done – over – past tenseI say using Acts 26, the "chosek" is the darkness belongs to "Satan". And this name "Greek satanas" is the power of "chosek". Correct – the Beast of revelation – that old serpent – that we call devils and satanas are the false prophets of ignorance – absolutely agreeD"There is NOT two gods of equal stature at war with one another in heaven "R That';s funny, can't you read Scripture" Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven. You ignore this verse too. It was a bustle to you, something nothing. BECAUSE - its over - done – old news – history – over - past tenseSome gnostic say Yalaboath created the 200 creatures.... SO who did Dave, who is the Beast of Revelation?Correct the bane elohiym are the offspring of the Beast of Revelation – satan’s seedD"(messengers, agents, offspring, bane elohiym, Jinn, shedim, archon, Watchers – other gods) R" blah blah, I asked who WHO created these shedim and who is the beast of revelation?ANSWER – God created them The Beast is the demon that deceives the whole wolrdD"Who sent the snakes – who is in control – who’s Will is being facilitated? R" Why did GOD send the snakes Dave?To facilitate His Will on earth – to facilitate His plan on earthSo God allows the snake to go and bit and kill Israel His people. Is that God's will ? No.STOP DENYING SCRIPTURE - God sent the snakes upon IsraelYou assume the destroyer is a nice guy, When have I ever called the Beast of revelation, the old serpent, that we call devils and satanas a nice guyMisrepresent – slander – and make up lies – is this your only defense?D"How can creature obedient to God be opposing God? R" You assume to understand God and the Hebrew way of writing things. Hope it works for you. Where is your answer God sent the snakes upon Israel – if God sent them – how can they be opposing God? It seems like a simple question – yet you fail to answerD"How can creatures under God’s command oppose their commander? R" God is supreme, they don't dare rebuke God, but they do anyway, as much as God allows. Finally – YES – God is absolute and in control - AgreeD"Who sent the evil spirits – who is in control – who’s Will is being facilitated? R" God is not mocked, a man reaps what he sows. Where is your answer God sent the evil spirits upon Samuel – if God sent them – how can they be opposing God? It seems like a simple question – yet you fail to answer2Sa 24:1 Now the anger of Adonai again flared up against Israel, 1Ch 21:1 Then satan stood up against Israel Hebrew satan is either God Himself – or an angel of the Lord in service to the Lord Hebrew satan = the anger of the Lord Hebrew satan = heavens prosecutor
D"In Seventh-day Adventist theology, the Great Controversy theme refers to the cosmic battle between Jesus Christ and Satan. R"Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Took 0.5 mili-seconds – no contest – over – past tense – Gen 1:2and that war continues on earth among humans and God. Correct – there is no cosmic controversy – there is no war between two gods or two forces in heavenD"The Contest is between man and WORLD - R" correct, but who is the "travelling head strong, with Persons" on earth? Before Man arrived on earth? This is the Beast of Revelation as recorded in Rev 12 and Gen 1 – and all his archonWhy did it appear simultaneously with creation? Answer – the first step in creation = expansion = movement away from the source = ra = entropy It is a by-product of physical creation – it is inherent to physical creation
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2022 16:52:04 GMT -5
Greetings Dave, Happy Shabbat
Your theory is difficult to fathom, your logic impossible to break...
SDA view :In Seventh-day Adventist theology, the Great Controversy theme refers to the cosmic battle between Jesus Christ and Satan.
Notice is doesn't say a war in heaven, it refers to a battle between Satan on earth.
DAVE view : In Gnostic theology, the Great Contest theme refers to the cosmic battle between Jesus Christ and Satanas.
Notice Dave says the war in heaven was a contest of 0.5 milliseconds, and the war continues on earth between the Satanas shedim and humans as a contest. Man is tempted to sin, and there is a prosecuting attorney, an angel making sure every sin is used to condemn the human, so nobody is saved unless they are truly without sinning. Is God that particular over sinning?
1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death,
Obviously not, so Dave's idea to have an attorney prosecuting us is wrong. So not all sinning is unto death, so much for an attorney recording sins...of no value....
Question: You say the Satanas is created by GOD with RA intentionally, along with these 200 generals who fathered the demigod archons you speak of? So who is Yalbaoth, and where did He come from, Who created him?
You say Yalboath was created by the left hand of the Father, a mystery he didn't know, the HS left her consort. That's funny, I thought the HS is an expression of the Father, so why does Gnosticism speak of three ogdoads? Define an ogdoad, to me? How can three ogdoads come out of the bosom of the Father? Were they created?
Suddenly your trinity is a creation of three ogdoads? Please explain.
Who is Yalboath, and why did the Father or the HS, as another expression, create a creature that is allowed to sin, and this is not considered sinning, as this creature has no free will to love God anyway. How does that make sense?
Is God able to create creatures that are unable to love Him, as a mere robot?
So none of the angels can love God, they have no free will, they are mere robots, machines assigned to a task, have no biology in them, yet eat manna, the same food the biological Israelites ate on earth. So strange your Gnostic view?
So the Father decides for the first time to make humans with free will, no other creature has free will, and so only humans can love? That's funny, I see lions and bears and even parrots do something similar to love. They provide and the the young respond, what is love anyway in Dave's definition? Sure animals cannot choose to be saved by the Father as an expression of Jesus, but they surely have intelligence?
You admit the Father as an expression the HS with a womb exploding the creation for man, and yet this dragon was ready to devour the womb contents. You agree to this idea. SO this implies the dragon was created by GOD the Father, before creation exploded from the womb of the HS, the dragon is ready to devour the contents of the Father's womb of creation.
You seem to say the dragon was created after the womb of creation from the HS ( or simultaneously at the same time, still afterwards) who is an expression of the Father anyway? Something is not right in your view?
Why would the Father want to create a creature to destroy His creation?
Can you for once Dave, actually write your view of things correctly in details? Your view is full of confusing ideas of logic?
I have of my view many times, but you seem unable to?
So this Father who creates a dragon to devour his own creation, why do such a thing? SO this Father who creates RA creatures who sin, but this is not considered sin, why impose yester tov on man, but have different rules for creatures of yester ra? Your god is not consistent with his rules, one set of rules for free will man, but another set of rules for robotic creatures who can sin, but this is not considered sin, because robotic creatures do not have free will.
Your god has nothing logical. Creatures who are mere robots cannot sin, but free will creatures can sin? How is that fair? Where is the absolute moral laws for creatures who live?
Your coping statement is to assume there are no absolute laws for all creatures to follow, only absolute rules for humans? If that is so why did Jesus term the devil satanas shedim a father of lies and a murderer. Such things are part of the royal law, hence these devil satanas shedim are sinning.
They can't be any absolute laws, because both kinds of creatures have different exceptions from your god, and you say all the time, why is it a sin to obey my god? Well you have not absolute laws? The robot creatures can do what they like, they cannot obey your god anyway because they have no free will and thus cannot make decisions of morality. So you whole theory has been deceiving you. A robotic creature is always obeying his creator because it is programmed that way.
SO when you write to me, you write wrongly, because you say "why is it a sin to obey the Lord"? A robotic machine cannot obey, only do what it programmed to do.
If your god was a god of love, why would you require the free will creature to be tested anyway?
Why must free will be tested to no longer love? Why must the creator who loves you create creatures to trip your loving up, that suggests to me; the creator is not loving you to begin with because your creator is tempting you to fall?
Yes indeed so many questions your Gnostic view creates...your god is illogical.
If you loved your wife, you would not arrange a man to tempt her to do adultery, just so you can see if her free will response is working? I would charge you as causing her love to fail and you would be guilty of not loving your wife to begin with.
But you are happy with a god like that?
So your dog is a mere robot, you pat it on the head out of love but the dog a mere robot just sits there doing nothing back? Or maybe it is programmed to respond. Than the robots the Japanese have built for old people are fine, and the old people love them and everybody is happy? No need for a human, the robots who look like humans, are actually like humans in every way? You think the humans can't tell they are not humans and therefore their love is a fake? Would you want a robot whose love is a fake, not genuine?
Why Adam saw every creature during creation with what? mere robots of love? or real personalities of loving, they had helpmates? Which did Adam see, because he felt lonely.
SO the Gnostic gets the idea from ADAM inside his bosom is the ogdoads of three entitles, and so comes out a woman, and later children. Is that the idea of the great uncaused cause, that three ogdoads came out of the Father's bosom?
That is not my view, my understanding is the great uncaused cause came as three divine entities from eternity, all at once, as a family BUT not of origin, nor of matter, but of mystery we cannot fathom right now. And during creation the divine family power shows Adam similes of their nature, Let us make man in our image, a verse Dave also ignores.
D"Why did it appear simultaneously with creation? R" The dragon did not appear simultaneously with creation? Can't you read Scripture Dave?
The WOMAN was with a womb of creation (children like Jesus inside) and the dragon was ready to devour her womb.
D"The dragon appeared simultaneously with creation? (Rob's rewrite of Dave)
NO, how can a dragon come out of the womb during creation and than proceed to destroy her womb at the same time? No wonder your Gnostic writings lead you astray, stop reading them and start reading the torah we have already.
The first thing we have to make clear abundantly is why do you see the Greek word satanas as different in meaning to the Hebrew word satan?
Still waiting for a scholarly study who agrees with you. Your whole theory is based on this one point, that you cannot justify?
You make such a big point over the suffix in Greek, ignoring the stem of the Greek is the same as the stem in the Hebrew? And you say you do not play word games?
The second biggest point I have is the creation of Yalboath, like an aborted fetus from the womb of the HS without consort from the Father. So the left hand of the Father creates this sinning robotic creature on purpose, so make a contest for humans. So the humans are not allowed to sin (yester ra) but the created robotic who loves ra is allowed to tempt humans to do yester ra?
OK let's test your theory?
Re 20:10 And the devil ( Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan,) that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Why does GOD destroy the created robotic RA creature, and thrown him in the Lake of Fire? So the tempting of love to do ra ends with humans? What no more tempting to do ra? I suppose the purpose of the ra creature robot comes to an end?
OK so in the next heaven without ra of any kind, all is bliss, why do humans spend trillions of years in love, with free will, but there is no robotic creature to tempt them to do ra anymore? Why did these free will creatures require tempting if they never experience tempting afterwards for the eternity of years?
Your answer might be so humans have experience with free will. SO I have to smoke to experience the RA of smoking so as to not smoke? I have never smoked, nor ever taken drugs, so have I lacked something, is my free will failing because it has no experience? Something wrong with Daves' logic here? So must all the woman experience rape so they can experience true martial sex with a true lover? Something wrong with your logic here Dave.
And why do millions of humans not make it? so are burned in the lake of fire? What exactly is this god wanting from the free will of humans? that some are burned and some are not burned? What is the testing and tempting purpose for? What kind of response from the humans causes them to be saved?
Gnsotics say belief? what is that? How is it measured and how much is enough to be saved?
You also ignore another verse of mine: and push a Utopian concept beyond Scripture.
I asked the www why did Jesus have to die, nobody, not even you gave a proper answer.
Here is what the English Hebrew translator says "Christ and him crucified, his love and infinite sacrifice-showing that the reason why Christ died is because the law of God is immutable, unchangeable, eternal. (The Southern Work, page 70)"
Does Dave see the laws of GOD as immutable, unchangeable, eternal?
Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
This application of judgment comes out of the royal law, and shows us that anybody causing mischief to a woman with a womb of creation, must pay his life for their life.
You ignore this verse.
D"Why did it appear simultaneously with creation?
R" You say the Beast Dragon appeared simultaneously with creation?
No it did not, the Beast dragon was ready to cause mischief to the HS womb of creation.
And you fail to notice the simile of Rev 12 to the royal laws of GOD.
D"Correct – there is no cosmic controversy – there is no war between two gods or two forces in heaven
R" I never said two gods in heaven, the cosmic war is between God and the "other elohiym powers" on earth.
Question: Who is the bane elohiym Dave? Book of Enoch calls them "Watcher" who came down from heaven to have sex with humans, ie fallen angels. Your own Gnostic writings tell you, but you also ignore Gnostic writings you don't like. You choose word games you like and ignore verses you don't like.
These other elohiym powers humans are commanded not to worship, are fallen angels, bane elohiym, who came down from heaven to earth, banished because such angels sinned. I do not need a Book of Enoch to state this, the inspired book of Ezekiel says it plainly instead. But you ignore this prophet too.
D"God sent the snakes upon Israel – if God sent them – how can they be opposing God? It seems like a simple question – yet you fail to answer
R" Back up a little Dave. Israel was saved by God, they were to do yester tov all the time and stop doing yester ra. Along the journey to heaven on earth, some begin to choose to do yester ra again.
If a saint wants to return to sinning again, what response does GOD have to do?
God is not mocked, a person reaps what he sows. This verse is speaking of seeds. The sower is GOD and HIS words of yester tov. God throws the seeds of yester tov into the hearts of man, His garden. Notice what happens to those seeds.
Mt 13:3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
The Father went forth to sown His WORDS of LIFE
Mt 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
WHO are these agents that eat the Father's words and devour them?
Mt 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
WHO causes the soil of the humans to become stony and hard so the humans had so little earth to receive the Father's words of life?
Mt 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
WHO is a simile of the SUN that burns the Father's words away, killing off their power?
Mt 13:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
WHO is a simile of the sower of weeds, that choke the Father's words of life?
These questions require answers, so we ask WHO is the simile of the snakes who came to bite the sinning sinners who wanted to sin?
Question: do any of these agents cause the Father's words of life to continue or to die off? These agents cause the Father's words of life, to die.
So these agents cannot be testing or tempting, they are actually destroying the Father's words of life.
Most people think that sinning is fun and allows your living to be enhanced and you experience a thrill of emotion that is erotic and irrational? Such things enhance your living? All this thinking is wrong. Sinning actually destroys your living and destroys your emotions and causes you to die.
The only reason why sin doesn't kill you immediately is because GOD allows you to stay alive long enough to see the fruit of your actions, so you see the result of your sinning, your yester ra and the decisions you make. You are on probation.
The same applies to the agents as well, they are on probation too.
But Dave ignores this idea. Not the ra creatures are robots and thus cannot sin morally like humans can. Such agents seek to kill you, not just tempt you, is another thought Dave opposes.
A weed is not just about slowing your garden down, it causes the good plants to die. So does a hot SUN So does a stony heart SO do snakes, they are not nice, they kill you.
D"God sent the snakes upon Israel – if God sent them – how can they be opposing God? It seems like a simple question – yet you fail to answer
R The snake is a personal being with free will who decides to sin because he loves to sin and has not died for his sins yet. If humans who also decide to sin and love to sin, than God has to hand them over the the other agent who also loves to sin.
It is written God sent the snakes, yes, God invites the other ruler to rule over them that choose to sin.
Is there an agent who rules of the sinning on earth? Another idea Dave ignores? Yes there is, Jesus termed the prince of the world, a sar, or king of earth. Jesus called him a father of lies, or a father of sinning, a murderer, a personal being who loves to kill you.
Yet Dave calls this agent a Greek Satanas, not the Hebrew satan. Funny how you play word games. The stem of both words is the same but not the suffix, so that makes the words totally different?
Lets see.
Ge 49:18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.
Salvation has a stem of letters the same as save, in Hebrew it is termed yasha. To add a personal being to such letters we add "hey" SO yashah is a person called salvation. This being came to save us from the result of mischief.
But you ignore the only verse dealing with a woman and a womb experiencing mischief
Mischief by the way is a sin, a moral sin at that, so the dragon that devours the woman and her womb is by definition sinning. Doing mischief is a sin.
Another idea you do not like.
D"Took 0.5 mili-seconds – no contest R" so the loving and results of loving take 0.5 milli seconds?
I would hate to experience loving in your kingdom, you would not wait patiently for the loving to turn to hate. Some god you serve?
D"Where is your answer God sent the evil spirits upon Samuel – if God sent them – how can they be opposing God? It seems like a simple question – yet you fail to answer
R" The judge sends two opposing humans to play tennis, but the tennis player turns angrily at the judge for a miscall?
The judge replies:" Who are you opposing me? I made the miscall and you who oppose me have to abide by my decision. So the opposer obeys. And the tennis match continues.
After the game is over, a commentator asks, what about that miscall? I would kill the judge if I had opportunity he says, and storms off.
But he can't because the judge is bigger and more powerful than him, so obeys as we humans seem the opposer to observe, in Hebrew writings.
All the sinning creatures have to obey the GOD after all, because only God can allow sinning to occur in the first place, and while the sinner challenges God, the sinner cannot overpower God, because God is loving and careful in all God does. It's a sin problem God is dealing with. Not as you claim, God created a robotic creature (s) doing RA and sin, to tempt humans to sin.
Suddenly all the pieces fall into place, when you read sola scriptura.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 26, 2022 11:27:44 GMT -5
D"I ask you a direct question about satan deceiving AdamR" I gave you a EGW quote and you missed reading it Did you miss it?I asked you A = D"I ask you a direct question about satan deceiving AdamYou gave me B = Adam understood that his companion had transgressed the command of God, disregarded the only prohibition laid upon them as a test of their fidelity and love. There was a terrible struggle in his mind. I ask you a direct question about satan deceiving Adam1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. You answered with some comment about Cain I asked you A = D"I ask you a direct question about satan deceiving AdamYou gave me B – yet againQuestion – where is your answer? Are you reluctant to answer a direct question? Avoid – deny – deflect - change the subject You have made this impossible standard for everyone else – one word wrong all of it garbageExcept – your absolute standards do not apply the ahl/OT Except - your absolute standards do not apply to the agl/NT Except – your absolute standard doesn’t even apply to your own Ellen White You have painted yourself into a cornerYour theory is difficult to fathom, It is very simple and obvious – you just need to have a god of evil to blame sin upon It is very simple and obvious – you just need to have a god of evil to blame ra uponBut you fail to define those terms – ra to you is evil always and sin can be anything you want it to be your logic impossible to break...Jewish theology was 3000 yrs old when Jesus Christ was bornSDA view :In Seventh-day Adventist theology, the Great Controversy theme refers to the cosmic battle between Jesus Christ and Satan.Jesus Christ = God – the Beast of Revelation or Hebrew satan are created beingsNO CONTEST!DAVE view : In Gnostic theology, the Great Contest theme refers to the cosmic battle between Jesus Christ and Satanas.NO IT DOES NOT – Mr HONESTThe Great Contest is between man and WORLD and the WORLD is the kingdom of the archonNotice Dave says the war in heaven was a contest of 0.5 milliseconds, 0.5 mili-seconds = TIME IS NOT LINEAR – could have been much less – or much more Only the ignorant use time as an argumentand the war continues on earth between the Satanas shedim and humans as a contest. On earth – Correct between man and archon (Eph 6) correct satanas and shedim – take many forms – and go by many namesMan is tempted to sin, Man is tempted – Correct – the archon fuel your lust and desire for worldGen 3:6 Now the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a thing of lust for the eyes, and that the tree was desirable for imparting wisdom. Man is tempted to sin,So she took of its fruit and she ate. She also gave to her husband who was with her and he ate. Man is tempted – the choice to disobey God is always man’s and man’s alone because You cannot use your satan or the archon or even the Beast himself as an excuse for your choicesRom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man (Eve) and there is a prosecuting attorney, an angel making sure every sin is used to condemn the human, so nobody is saved unless they are truly without sinning. Is God that particular over sinning?YES – there is a prosecuting attorney whose job it is to expose all your sin – even that you forget – even that you didn’t realize was a sinIs God that particular over sinning?It only takes on bite of sin – to be a sinner – just ask EveQuestion: You say the Satanas is created by GOD with RA intentionally, along with these 200 generals who fathered the demigod archons you speak of?What do you mean by ra – you mean it to be evilI say the Beast was made with (yester ra) – which is SELF – selfishness God created cows with (yester ra) – why do you consider cows to be evil? God created sheep with (yester ra) – why do you consider sheep evil? God created gold fish with (yester ra) – why do you consider gold fish evil? God created baboon with (yester ra) – are they evil? When the First Archon woke up – he arrogantly though he was first and alone – SELF (yester ra) along with these 200 generals who fathered the demigodYES – the First Archon – the Chief Archon – the Beast had offspring YES – the First Archon – the Chief Archon – the Beast appeared in a plurality So who is Yalbaoth,Just another name for the Beast – for the First Archonand where did He come from, Who created him?Answer – God created everything – there is no other creatorCol 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities (archon). All was created through Him and for Him. Repeat - All was created through Him and for Him. God created everything – there is no other creatorYou say Yalboath was created by the left hand of the Father, a mystery he didn't know.Jesus used the Jewish expression:Mat 6:3 But when you do tzedakah, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, Mat 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: Adam Clark - Matthew 6:3Let not thy left hand know - In many cases, works of charity must be hidden from even our nearest relatives, who, if they knew, would hinder us from doing what God has given us power and inclination to perform. We must go even farther; and conceal them as far as is possible from ourselves, by not thinking of them, or eyeing them with complacency. They are given to God, and should be hidden in Him. One hand is obviouse One hand is secrete That's funny, I thought the HS is an expression of the Father, so why does Gnosticism speak of three ogdoads? Define an ogdoad, to me? en.wiktionary.org/wiki/OgdoadOgdoad – Egyptian for - primordial deity How can three ogdoads come out of the bosom of the Father? Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Were they created?They were expressed The Father (el) God (the thought behind the word) – is a singularity The creation The Father (el) God (the thought behind the word) – expressed His word = His word went out – expanded outwardly = distance = time = space/time – the 2D medium, matrix, ether that sustains the All God expressed vis the 2D medium = 3D reality = image of God = God in 3D form = Christ The Word – preexisted creation - God The word was spoked / expressed – the word went out - Spirit And the word became flesh - Christ Suddenly your trinity is a creation of three ogdoads? Please explain.One God expressed as spirit or 3D imageWho is Yalboath, and why did the Father or the HS, as another expression, create a creature that is allowed to sin, and this is not considered sinning, as this creature has no free will to love God anyway. How does that make sense?You are confused because you refuse to see the difference between (yester ra) selfishness and evilCows are allowed to (yester ra) – why do you claim all cows are sinners? Sheep are allowed to (yester ra) – why do you claim all sheep are evil? Is God able to create creatures that are unable to love Him, as a mere robot? So none of the angels can love God, they have no free will, they are mere robots, machines assigned to a task, have no biology in them, yet eat manna, the same food the biological Israelites ate on earth. So strange your Gnostic view? Here is a Jewish metaphorMan is a burning candle and our light shines Alone in the middle of the outback – in the dark – I am so proud of my light But next to a raging infernal – my small little flame becomes lost in the blaze Angels are in heaven with God – they are exposed to God 24/7 – all they can do is praise The Archon thought only of self and was cast into earth where (yester ra) belongs They know – but they are not near God they are in a lower realm/heaven/dimension near man On earth / in earth they are distance from God – distance from the light – separated into darkness In the darkness they do not see Man – was a perfect little angel in heaven with God (yester tov) But man came to earth and took on flesh- and flesh comes with (yester ra) In the Garden Eve choose (yester ra) – lust and desire Gen 3:6 Now the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a thing of lust for the eyes, and that the tree was desirable for imparting wisdom. So the Father decides for the first time to make humans with free will, no other creature has free will, and so only humans can love? That's funny, I see lions and bears and even parrots do something similar to love. The Free Will choice is to Love God or WorldLoving your wife or your dog has nothing to do with the Free Will Choice to be the Prodigal SonWhy would the Father want to create a creature to destroy His creation? So this Father who creates a dragon to devour his own creation, why do such a thing?Love comes with a risk And physical creation comes with entropy – it is inherent to physicality – a by-product of creationSO when you write to me, you write wrongly, because you say "why is it a sin to obey the Lord"? A robotic machine cannot obey, only do what it programmed to do. OK – and when it does the job God programmed it to do – why is that a sin? OK – and when it does the job God programmed it to do – why is that opposing God?If your god was a god of love, why would you require the free will creature to be tested anyway?Robert – The Parable of the Prodigal SonLuk 15:11 Then Yeshua said, “A certain man had two sons, Luk 15:12 and the younger of them said to the father, ‘Father, give me the share of the property that comes to me.’ So he divided his wealth between them. Luk 15:13 “Not many days later, the younger son gathered everything and traveled to a far country, and there he squandered his inheritance on wild living. Luk 15:14 Now when he had spent everything, a severe famine came against that country, and he began to be in need. Luk 15:15 So he went and joined himself to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed pigs. Luk 15:16 And he was longing to fill up on the carob pods the pigs were eating, but no one was giving him any. Luk 15:17 “But when he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired workers have food overflowing, but here I am dying of hunger! Luk 15:18 I’ll get up and go to my father, and I’ll say to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your presence. Luk 15:19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired workers. Luk 15:20 “And he got up and went to his own father. But while he was still far away, his father saw him and felt compassion. He ran and fell on his neck and kissed him. Luk 15:21 Then the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your presence. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ Luk 15:22 “But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quick! Bring out the best robe and put it on him! Put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. Luk 15:23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it! Let’s celebrate with a feast! Luk 15:24 For this son of mine was dead and has come back to life—he was lost and is found!’ Then they began to celebrate. 1- Real love is unrequited – God loves us even if we have forgotten who he is 2- Real love – unrequited love – allows you to leave – go out on your own – into the world 3- while you are out in the world – you have two choices – seek world or seek God (Free Will) 4- if you Free Willingly choose God and return to God – REWARD for both man and God From God we came – we are here to (Jer 1:5) – and we will return to God Christ came to earth – Christ put on flesh to (Jer 1:5) – and he return to the heavens God – came to earth as a man (God incarnate) to (Jer 1:5) – and he returned to the heavens If your god was a god of love, why would you require the free will creature to be tested anyway?Would make an interesting Bible study just to count how many times man promised to obey and follow God – then didn’t Promises are only words – satan said to God – as long as Job has it easy it easy to have the faith This is so true how many make money with their religious work yet when face with beheading - save themselves Deu 8:2 You are to remember all the way that Adonai your God has led you these 40 years in the wilderness—in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not. Physical 3D reality is the wilderness D"Why did it appear simultaneously with creation? R" The dragon did not appear simultaneously with creation? Can't you read Scripture Dave?
Gen 1:1 then 1:2 – then 1:3 – then 1:4 = creation D"The dragon appeared simultaneously with creation? (Rob's rewrite of Dave)
NO, how can a dragon come out of the womb during creation and than proceed to destroy her womb at the same time? 1- the creation event was an explosion of creation – a Big Bang 2- it all took place with the bang – you used to argue Hebrew block time – now you argue the opposite 3- why does the beast destroy – because it is entropy – all creation will wind down and stop – but our sun will have burnt out long before that 4- Jeff Brenner definition of ra is the movement away toward dysfunction 5- the first step in creation = expansion = distance = movement away – a retardation The first thing we have to make clear abundantly is why do you see the Greek word satanas as different in meaning to the Hebrew word satan?I can use a dictionary I do not have to deny the dictionary to make my doctrine correctEvery Rabbinic commentary about Hebrew satan calls his an angel of the Lord in service to the Lord Every agl/NT commentary about satanas calls him the devilStill waiting for a scholarly study who agrees with you. Your whole theory is based on this one point, that you cannot justify?BULL SHIT – I went to the trouble to post the Doctoral thesis of two different Greek student working on their PhDs – One from Harvard – one from U of Kanas at hays
Just because you could understand them – or didn’t bother to read them You make such a big point over the suffix in Greek, ignoring the stem of the Greek is the same as the stem in the Hebrew? And you say you do not play word games?Cache – Cash: Scents – Sense: Chile – Chili: Choir – Quire: Site – Sight: Facts- Fax: Finnish – Finish: Eight and ate Bear and bare Satan – satanas is just another example All these words sound exactly alike – but they have different languages of origin Please demonstrate how they all mean the same thingThe second biggest point I have is the creation of Yalboath, like an aborted fetus from the womb of the HS without consort from the Father. So the left hand of the Father creates this sinning robotic creature on purpose, so make a contest for humans. So the humans are not allowed to sin (yester ra) but the created robotic who loves ra is allowed to tempt humans to do yester ra?
What a fantasy life you must have – always inventing these made up ideas Please restate you question with clarity robotic RA creature - robotic who loves ra define your terms – almost 3 yrs in – I will not fall for your word game traps Re 20:10 And the devil ( Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan,) that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Why does GOD destroy the created robotic RA creature, and thrown him in the Lake of Fire? Because they are false gods – therefore false prophets - DUHAnd why do millions of humans not make it? so are burned in the lake of fire? Hmmm? What a funny thing to say for a man who preach a God of Love onlyJews – and Gnostics – and most Christians have (1) a Divine pardon – First Fruits + (2) or proportional punishment – a purification then the First Resurrection What exactly is this god wanting from the free will of humans? Gnostics say belief? what is that? How is it measured and how much is enough to be saved?Good questionBelief that Jesus Christ died for you sins (just a simple example) How much is enough – the smallest fraction possible as long as it is genuine How is it measuredLuk 15:23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it! Let’s celebrate with a feast! Luk 15:24 For this son of mine was dead and has come back to life—he was lost and is found!’ Then they began to celebrate. Zec 3:1-5 – Divine Pardon Or Proportional Punishment2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, so that each one may receive what is due for the things he did while in the body—whether good or bad. Luk 12:48 But the one who did not know and did things worthy of a beating will be whipped lightly. From everyone given much, much will be required; and from the one for whom more is provided, all the more they will ask of him. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead—the great and the small—standing before the throne. The books were opened, and another book was opened—the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what was written in the books, according to their deeds. I asked the www why did Jesus have to die, nobody, not even you gave a proper answer.All prophets die (1) Jesus died to fulfill any and all scriptural prophesies – to satisfy scripture (2) Jesus died – so he could be Resurrection in front of the whole world (3) proving that the grave is not the end – just the transition into the after life Does Dave see the laws of GOD as immutable, unchangeable, eternal?Of course – Rome is the one that has rewritten the ahl/OTEx 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, This application of judgment comes out of the royal law, and shows us that anybody causing mischief to a woman with a womb of creation, must pay his life for their life. You finally place this verse in context And finally you use it properly You could make a sermon out of this------------------------------------- Question: Who is the bane elohiym Dave? Book of Enoch calls them "Watcher" who came down from heaven to have sex with humans, ie fallen angels. Your own Gnostic writings tell you, but you also ignore Gnostic writings you don't like. You choose word games you like and ignore verses you don't like. your logic impossible to break...Jewish theology was 3000 yrs old when Jesus Christ was bornPrecept upon precept , line upon line scripture must be consistentYou seem to have a different theology for every page – your theology is not consistant – you switch themes – double speak – employ double standards – and flip flop You talk about things you have never read or studied with any depth Watcher" who came down from heaven to have sex with humans,This is a perfect example of your inconsistency This is a perfect example of your lack of knowledge on the subject that you critiscise Instead of looking at the information – you react with propaganda and attitude Watcher" who came down from heaven to have sex with humans,Question – when does your satan get kick out of heaven? Gen 1:2 or Gen 6? The serpent was in the garden long before Gen 6 The archon have been on earth since creation – it is their domain – it is their kingdomBook of Enoch6:1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' 3. And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' 4. And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' 5. Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 6. And they were in all two hundred; who descended ⌈in the days⌉ of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. Watcher" who came down from heaven to have sex with humans, Where do you get this idea – from the text?in all two hundred; who descended … on the summit of Mount HermonYOU ARE THE WORD MAN – prove to me these protesters all came from heaven (wiki) When the rebel angels first meet upon Mount Hermon to organize their secret society of 200 members, Samyaza, as their recognized chieftain, These other elohiym powers humans are commanded not to worship, Agree – these other gods are created beings – made with some matter – archon –all of them They were never good-guy angels – they were created by Him for Him (Col 1:16) – But you consider Paul a Gnostic and we cannot trust His views I do not need a Book of Enoch to state this, the inspired book of Ezekiel says it plainly instead. But you ignore this prophet too.All you have is Ezk 28 – which is all about man – man is the creature that fell – man is the creature that sinsD"God sent the snakes upon Israel – if God sent them – how can they be opposing God? It seems like a simple question – yet you fail to answer R" Back up a little Dave. … God is not mocked, a person reaps what he sows. YES you want to rationalize that man deserved it I asked you a direst question A You post B and talk about BD"God sent the snakes upon Israel – if God sent them – how can they be opposing God? It seems like a simple question – yet you fail to answer Mt 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: WHO are these agents that eat the Father's words and devour them?G4071 – πετεινόν - Neuter of a derivative of G4072; a flying animal, that is, bird: - bird, fowl. Fowl – animal – made with matter - WORLDMt 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: WHO causes the soil of the humans to become stony and hard so the humans had so little earth to receive the Father's words of life?Gen 3:17 Then to the man He said, “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate of the tree which I commanded you, saying, ‘You must not eat of it’: Cursed is the ground because of you—with pain will you eat of it all the days of your life. Gen 3:18 Thorns and thistles will sprout for you. You will eat the plants of the field, Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your brow will you eat food, until you return to the ground, since from it were you taken. For you are dust, and to dust will you return.” Mt 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. WHO is a simile of the SUN that burns the Father's words away, killing off their power?Man’s short attention span – man’s forgetfulness – man’s pre-occupation with WORLD The archon cannot force you to do anything The choice is man’s and man’s alone Mt 13:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: WHO is a simile of the sower of weeds, that choke the Father's words of life?Gen 3:18 Thorns and thistles will sprout for you God’s Plan – God’s Will – God put the (contest, struggle, battle, testing, - LIFE on earth) in motionThese questions require answers, so we ask WHO is the simile of the snakes who came to bite the sinning sinners who wanted to sin?They are 100% evil spirits – the disembodied spirits of dead Nephilim (Jubilees 10) They are 100% used by God to facilitate God’s Will on earthQuestion: do any of these agents cause the Father's words of life to continue or to die off? These agents cause the Father's words of life, to die.One of these agents named was CHARLES DARWIN – more than any one man - cause the Father's words of life to continue or to die off CHARLES DARWIN – is 100% man – 100% WORLDSo these agents cannot be testing or tempting, they are actually destroying the Father's words of life.The impact of CHARLES DARWIN has been devastating to traditional ChristendomMost people think that sinning is fun and allows your living to be enhanced and you experience a thrill of emotion that is erotic and irrational? Such things enhance your living? Correct – all these things enhance your WORLDAll this thinking is wrong. Sinning actually destroys your living and destroys your emotions and causes you to die. Correct – WORLD and all thing of it (cows, ants, disease, archon) will all pass away – die Only spirit is eternal – life livesThe only reason why sin doesn't kill you immediately is because GOD allows you to stay alive long enough to see the fruit of your actions, so you see the result of your sinning, your yester ra and the decisions you make. You are on probation.2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some consider slowness. Rather, He is being patient toward you—not wanting anyone to perish, but for all to come to repentance. Agreed – we all get an equal chance The same applies to the agents as well, they are on probation too. But Dave ignores this idea. Sorry Robert – the archon know their fate Mat 8:29 And they screamed, “What’s between You and us, Ben-Elohim? Have You come here to torment us, before the appointed time?” Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? Mat 25:41 Then He will also say to those on the left, ‘Go away from Me, you cursed ones, into the everlasting fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels. Sorry Robert – the archon know their fateA weed is not just about slowing your garden down, it causes the good plants to die. - WORLDSo does a hot SUN- WORLDSo does a stony heart- WORLDSO do snakes, they are not nice, they kill you. – WORLDSo do cows that stampede over you – so do virus that are just trying to be fruitful and multiply - WORLDD"God sent the snakes upon Israel – if God sent them – how can they be opposing God? It seems like a simple question – yet you fail to answer It is written God sent the snakes, yes, God invites the other ruler to rule over them that choose to sin.YES God does it – if God sent them – how can they be opposing God?I asked you a direct question A You post B and talk about B Are you afraid to answer? Is it so hard for you to admit God is in change – God is in control – because God is AbsoluteIs there an agent who rules of the sinning on earth? Another idea Dave ignores? Yes there is, Jesus termed the prince of the world, a sar, or king of earth.Just when have I denied the archon whose domain is this WORLD – Just when have I denied the archon whose kingdom is this WORLD And has been since Gen 1:2 a father of lies, a murderer, a personal being who loves to kill you.YES Robert – the WORLD is a trap – to choose WORLD is death Jesus called him the father of sinningPlease present your scripture Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. Jesus called him the father of sinningPlease present your scriptureIs Your Hebrew satan actually Adam?--------------------- Yet Dave calls this agent a Greek Satanas, not the Hebrew satan. Funny how you play word games. The stem of both words is the same but not the suffix, so that makes the words totally different? Lets see. Ge 49:18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD. Salvation has a stem of letters the same as save, in Hebrew it is termed yasha. What kind of seriousness is this?Salvation and saved are both Hebrew word from the same root – DUHThese words are not from the same language Cache – Cash: Scents – Sense: Chile – Chili: Choir – Quire: Site – Sight: Facts- Fax: Finnish – Finish: Eight and ate Bear and bare Satan – satanas is just another example G4567 - Σατανᾶς – Of Chaldee origin ghostsghoulsandgod.co.uk/2020/09/biblical-demonology-semjaza-and-azazel/Semjâzâ This is the first being noted in 1 Enoch 6:3. He is said to have taught pharmaceutical enchantments from plants (1 Enoch 8:3). He was also said to be the leader of 20 [1] named beings (v7), themselves assumed to each be in charge of a unit of 10 beings under them (to make the total 200 Watchers which fell (v6). 1st Book of Enoch says - Semjâzâ 2nd Book of Enoch says - These are the Grigori, who with their prince Satanail www.definitions.net/definition/SamyazaSamyaza Samyaza also Semihazah, Shemyazaz, Shemyaza, Sêmîazâz, Semjâzâ, Samjâzâ, Semyaza, and Shemhazai is an angel of apocryphal Jewish and Christian tradition that ranked in the heavenly hierarchy as one of the Grigori. The name 'Shemyaza[z]' means 'infamous rebellion', the combination of 'shem' [meaning 'name' or 'fame' {whether positive or negative}] + 'azaz' [which means 'rebellion' or 'arrogance' as a negative particle]. Michael Knibb lists him as “the name has seen” or “he sees the name”. The interesting thing about the second interpretation is there is a tale about Semjâzâ knowing the explicit name of God and making a deal with a human to tell her the name. Azâzêl Azâzêl is mentioned in Chapter 8:1 as the one who taught warfare due to metallurgy / mining as well as human ornamentation with jewellery and makeup for seduction purposes which led to fornication.. Some Greek fragments contain ‘First Azael, the tenth of the archons‘ [6] – archon being the principalities that Paul talks about [7]. Satanas, - Samyaza also Semihazah, Shemyazaz, Shemyaza, Sêmîazâz, Semjâzâ, Samjâzâ, Semyaza, and Shemhazai – or even – Azâzêl None of these are your Hebrew satanChaldean satanas is the leader (commander, general, ruler, sar) of the archon (bane elohoym) of Gen 6 satanas – is just another name we call the Beast – that old serpent devil – is just another name we call the Beast – that old serpent Gnostic Paul wrote in First Century Greek – he called then archon – our real struggle (Eph 6:12) Gnostic Paul also wrote that they were made by Him for Him (Col 1:16) Gnostic Paul also wrote the Prayer of Paul and the Apocalypse of Paul (3rd letter to Corinth) – and that reading is banned from reading as Gnostic Every agl/NT + first century Christian write had two words at their disposalG4566 - Σατᾶν - Of Hebrew origin [H7854]; Satan, Chosen for use only once – 2 Cor 12:7 2Co 12:7 even in the extraordinary quality of the revelations. So that I would not exalt myself, a thorn in the flesh was given to me—a a messenger of satan to torment me, so I would not exalt myself. Its not even Hebrew satan – only his messenger – a reminder to stay the courseThe rest of the agl/NT and the first centiury authors is all about G4567 - Σατανᾶς -Of Chaldee origin – the bad guy
the great dragon …the ancient serpent, - ALSO CALLED the devil and satanas,
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2022 17:51:04 GMT -5
D"NO IT DOES NOT – Mr HONEST The Great Contest is between man and WORLD and the WORLD is the kingdom of the archon R" So why does Jesus say about the shedim devil (I speak of your view here) that Jesus came to overthrow the prince of the this world, and in me the chief archon has found nothing amiss?
Do you ignore these verses as well?
D"0.5 mili-seconds = TIME IS NOT LINEAR – could have been much less – or much more Only the ignorant use time as an argument R" You posted this, so I am not going to say you are ignorant. Relationships take time, much longer than mere milliseconds of time. I suspect my two pennies here, that it took over 33 years for the Serpent to plan and finally seek the right moment to decieve the woman. He chose her first over him, as she seemed a weaker target to deceive. I would not agree time is not valuable, time assumes relationships grow.
D"Man is tempted – the choice to disobey God is always man’s and man’s alone because You cannot use your satan or the archon or even the Beast himself as an excuse for your choices
R" Correct, but you also ignore that the archons are rulers of their own kingdom, or world, and Jesus acknowledged this face, calling the chief archon shedim devil, a prince (sar) of this world. You ignore this verse as well, it is mentioned many times throughout the OT and NT.
D"YES – there is a prosecuting attorney whose job it is to expose all your sin – even that you forget – even that you didn’t realize was a sin
Is God that particular over sinning? It only takes on bite of sin – to be a sinner – just ask Eve R" You must be hopelessly lost in a theory that is illogical than Dave. So the attoney angel is able to record trillions and trillions of sin every second for over 6,000 years since Adam and Eve, and present all the transgression sins, all the ignorant sins, all of the missing sins and all of the hidden thought sins as well. My what an attorney you have, I suppose he has help from other angels? Tell me, how is it possible for angels to read into the human mind and record sinning we are not even aware of ourselves?
Than there is another problem, much of the sinning of the saint is declared forgiven, many of these sins are not unto death, so never are presented in court, so are in fact never seen as sinning at all. How does the angel know which sins are worth prosecuting for and which sins are not worth prosecuting for? My understanding is the Father has given the SON the ability to save us or condemn us, no body else. No even angels do this? Because salvation (which includes prosecuting sins as well as forgiving sins) happens for the saint every day and formally on the day of atonement, so the process of court cases as you claim do exist in heaven, but only within the SON Himself. He is our high priest.
What does a high priest do? He atones for and forgives sins. That means he must process your sinning on a daily basis. How and the world is an attorney angel involved in this personal process? Not a single verse mentioned anywhere.
Sure there is Zech 3, about the OPPOSER opposing the right of a human being a high priest, but the Lord Jesus rebukes this opposer and declares he is functional to be a simile of me, as a THE high priest on earth, to represent ME as the aultimate high preist in heaven. The OPPOSER was attacking this process because he did not want Jesus to function as high priest for humans, because such a role would end the kingdom the archons.
1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
How can an "angel pretend to be Christ" and know which sins are not unto death, and thus not processed in court judgement? Hence such an angel has NOT this role, only Jesus does, this is why LORD Jesus rebuked the Opposer in Zech 3. Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved,
Only Jesus who is our high priest, saves us, so all the processing of sins happens within Him.
If you have a look at the model of this role on earth, the day of atonement had no provision for angels or other humans investigating the atonment process of forgiving your sinnings.
D"along with these 200 generals who fathered the demigod YES – the First Archon – the Chief Archon – the Beast had offspring YES – the First Archon – the Chief Archon – the Beast appeared in a plurality
So who is Yalbaoth, Just another name for the Beast – for the First Archon R" I see. So God created Yalboath, the chief archon shedim devil, to be a RA creature who was a prince of the world called earth. Whooo? Hang on... Jesus called this chief archon shedim devil a "sar" prince of this world.
Since when was the cow created as a prince of its dominion?
Or the babboon a prince of its world?
Or the monkey a prince of the jungle?
Or even the lion is known as a king of the jungle, but the Bible never says the lion is a sar?
Not a single verse about the lion as a prince, but such an animal is used as a simile of power:
Ps 10:9 He lieth in wait secretly as a lion in his den: he lieth in wait to catch the poor: he doth catch the poor, when he draweth him into his net. {secretly: Heb. in the secret places}
Lions are secret creatures.
Isa 30:6 The burden of the beasts of the south: into the land of trouble and anguish, from whence [come] the young and old lion, the viper and fiery flying serpent, they will carry their riches upon the shoulders of young asses, and their treasures upon the bunches of camels, to a people [that] shall not profit [them].
Why the association of lions to vipers, and flying serpents?
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust [shall be] the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
Again the association of "bad" animals goes away in the next Creation for mankind.
Eze 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.
Even angels have the similes of the power of lions
Eze 22:25 [There is] a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
The lions devour souls? Not just test or tempt souls, but go further than that?
Ho 5:14 For I [will be] unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, [even] I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue [him].
God functions as a lion.
Am 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
All these agents are similes, who does the lion represent?
2Ti 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and [that] all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.
Who is the mouth of the lion?
1Pe 5:8 ¶ Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Peter says this authority is termed adversary, opposer, the devil (Dave sees this as only archon created creatures designed to be that way? )
Re 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Again the lion gives his powers to other human governments
I have not heard or read in the torah of animal called "sar" or prince, only the chief archon is declared this by Jesus.
A prince is a king of a kingdom. Such a king rules over the subjects of his kingdom. You deny this idea, because you see the archons as creatures created by God as animals like the cow and babboon.
You are so wrong. Why than did Jesus called the chief archon/shedim a prince of this world than?
D"YES – the First Archon – the Chief Archon – the Beast had offspring R" What? How can a creature without free will, programmed to do what it's programmed to do, have offspring that includes shape shifting to make demi gods out of human beings? Isn't that going beyond programming? Didn't these creature decide to do this? Hence free will? A mere cow is not going to rise up and deceive humans.
But you say the archons were made for deception? OK, so explain why they are a prince, under a king than? How come Jesus called the chief shedim a father of lies and a murderer, these things are sins from the royal law?
But shedim cannot sin, if they are mere animals programmed to do what they do best, deceive humans?
D"One God expressed as spirit or 3D image R" I see. Expressed. Shape shifted and made a new image. Not a creation. Not a formation. Explain than how one YHWH is in heaven and the same time as one YHWH is on earth, both causing the destruction of Sodom? How can an expression be separated by space? in two different entities?
D"Here is a Jewish metaphor R" I asked you why angels eat food like manna, the same food humans also ate on earth, therefore angels must be biological as well, but somewhat different to ours, just similar. You gave me a destraction instead.
D"Loving your wife or your dog has nothing to do with the Free Will Choice R" Really? What is free will than, if it doesn't involved love or intelligence? If man is biologically an animal the same as archons are, but archons are self deceiving animals, capable of testing man to do what? Yester ra? How does man know what is yester tov or yester ra anyway if he is just an animal? D"Love comes with a risk And physical creation comes with entropy R" so it's OK to tempt man to fail? It's OK to hire a man to tempt your wife into adultery. That is not love Dave. YOu would be guilty of not loving your wife, if you also wanted her tested. Explain why God is not guilty of sin in creating such a weird arrangement?
D"OK – and when it does the job God programmed it to do – why is that a sin? R" It's not according to your view. However one could charge God with sin, if GOD intentionally created animals to make man sin. Explain
RP"If your god was a god of love, why would you require the free will creature to be tested anyway? D" Robert – The Parable of the Prodigal Son R" you didn't answer my question. Distraction.
The prodigal left, was rude to ask for inheritence anyway, was rude to spent is away foolishly. Did the Father prompt each son daily to run away? with his money? No, so stop using this story to match your Gnostic view. In your view, God sits in the house every day inventing creatures to make his sons fail to love him, so they go away and than return afterwards. That is your view.
D"1- the creation event was an explosion of creation – a Big Bang 2- it all took place with the bang – you used to argue Hebrew block time – now you argue the opposite 3- why does the beast destroy – because it is entropy – all creation will wind down and stop – but our sun will have burnt out long before that 4- Jeff Brenner definition of ra is the movement away toward dysfunction 5- the first step in creation = expansion = distance = movement away – a retardation R" OK so maybe the Beast can come after and destroy the womb of creation? Why would GOD create something dyfunctional in a creature? I thought God said all things were very functional?
I am supposed to place Gnostic writings supplementing Moses torah? I don't think so.
D" I went to the trouble to post the Doctoral thesis of two different Greek student working on their PhDs – One from Harvard – one from U of Kanas at hays
Just because you could understand them – or didn’t bother to read them R" COuld you provide the links again please, I am currently read one myself.
D"All these words sound exactly alike – but they have different languages of origin Please demonstrate how they all mean the same thing R" Are they spelt the same though?
ahab and ahabuh have similar stem letters so are related as word meanings, though different words. chata and chataah have similar stem letters so are related as word meanings, though different words.
THough some scholars like James Barr says the Hebrew root word is a fallacy?
If the Greek is a translation of the Hebrew, as many scholars agree, eg the LXX, than the word stem SAN with the prefix hey, is the same word as in Greek SAN with it's suffix "as". Rp" Why does GOD destroy the created robotic RA creature, and thrown him in the Lake of Fire? D" Because they are false gods – therefore false prophets - DUH R I don't follow you, these animals are programmed to do what they do, why are they false gods, were they not programmed to do this as well? Are they not valid creatures creation? The cow and the lion and snake still exist in the new unvierses without RA this time, but the archon animal is not allowed? Can't you explain?
D" proportional punishment – a purification then the First Resurrection R" What? Are you saying the humans who choose yester ra are given second chances again to make it to heaven?
RP" What exactly is this god wanting from the free will of humans? Gnostics say belief? what is that? How is it measured and how much is enough to be saved? D" Good question Belief that Jesus Christ died for you sins (just a simple example) How much is enough – the smallest fraction possible as long as it is genuine R" Yes but what exactly is GOD wanting from us?
YOu didn't answer the question?
RP"I asked the www why did Jesus have to die, nobody, not even you gave a proper answer. D" All prophets die (1) Jesus died to fulfill any and all scriptural prophesies – to satisfy scripture R" what Scriptures?
(2) Jesus died – so he could be Resurrection in front of the whole world R" Why not just raise a dead person instead? IN fact why do people die in the first place? How come the cow and baboon dies but the archon creatures do not?
WOuld not the archon animals be over 6,000 years old already, earth local time?
(3) proving that the grave is not the end – just the transition into the after life R" What after life? You did not answer why Jesus died? You ignore God's laws? Doesn't God have laws ? Question" Would you expect the animals to obey moral laws? or are they allowed to kill and eat? No wonder you laughed at vegan sharks, you say all the animals kill and eat, that is God created function for them?
How come the tree is allowed to decay and decompose, be eaten and ripped off it's leaves by herbivores which are in turn eaten by carnivores, while RAIN and SNOW and other RA things never happened until after Adam sinned and more RA happened until the great FLOOD make huges changes of RA on earth, almost 1400 years later.
If huge changes of RA happened over 1000 years after Adam was created, and sinned, how do you explain chaos happening to the creation, when it didn't rain, or snow until after the flood?
RP" Does Dave see the laws of GOD as immutable, unchangeable, eternal? D" Of course – Rome is the one that has rewritten the ahl/OT R" so you say GOD has no laws that are immutable, unchangeable, eternal? only those laws apply to animals of free will?
D"You finally place this verse in context And finally you use it properly You could make a sermon out of this R" I might sermon the verse. But you ignore an animal with self in it intentionally wanted to destroy GOD's womb of creation? We have a LAW concerning this, but for DAVE such laws do not apply to animals without free will?
That's funny. Than why did Jesus term the chief archon animal as a father of lies. Lying is a sin, a moral law. ANd also a murderer. This is a moral law too. Suddenly the application of these moral laws are applicable to animals too. ANd thus such animals have free will too. But you ignore all this?
D"Book of Enoch 6:1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' R" I assume these angels are called watchers, whatever. Are you saying these angels who came down are not the archons who were already on earth, so these are different creatures who sinned (ie angels) , in addition to the archons on the earth already? I didn't know angels could sin, as they are programmed animals like the archons are? Please explain
D"All you have is Ezk 28 – R" Which is written as a message from God, yes.
D"God’s Plan – God’s Will – God put the (contest, struggle, battle, testing, - LIFE on earth) in motion R" I see, you focus on the literal of the poetry, rather than its simile. How clever your Gnsotic view is? Love is a river, a dam fed you some, clear was it's water traditionally done.
So this passage of poetry I wrote aged 16, is only about river's and dams and water, not about it's simile, the humans who function with love as dams and rivers? I see Dave, you have no idea how poetry similes work?
D"One of these agents named was CHARLES DARWIN – more than any one man - cause the Father's words of life to continue or to die off R yes, but what about the simile of powers behind Darwin, who came up with this idea, who opposes God? But your animals on earth cannot oppose God since God created them. OK so why does Jesus come to overthrow the prince the world than? Another verse you ignore?
D"Sorry Robert – the archon know their fate R" I don't get you, how can a programmed animal be judged for RA, when it's supposed to programmed that way?
Please explain
These creature have no free will and are only "cows doing what cows do", so why are they judged? Explain
D"YES God does it – if God sent them – how can they be opposing God? R" you ignore the comment about the opposer in a tennis match oposing the judge, "I would have killed the judge if I could" but reluctantly I have to obey.... RP"a father of lies, a murderer, a personal being who loves to kill you. D" YES Robert – the WORLD is a trap – to choose WORLD is death
R" Worldly creatures are passive. A liar and a murder is actively out to get you, hence sinner, breaking moral laws
You make category mistake. A programmed creature cannot be a liar and a murderer, they have no free will ?
RP"Jesus called him the father of sinning D" Please present your scripture R" Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
The chief shedim devil is a father of lies and murders, hence sinning. Duh.
Cannot be programmed animals doing RA, must involved active thinking, hence free will to choose to sin.
D"Paul wrote in First Century Greek – he called then archon – our real struggle (Eph 6:12) R" Paul wrote to Timorthy to avoid Gnosis, so Paul is no Gnostic
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 26, 2022 22:30:50 GMT -5
D"NO IT DOES NOT – Mr HONEST The Great Contest is between man and WORLD and the WORLD is the kingdom of the archon R" So why does Jesus say about the shedim devil (I speak of your view here) that Jesus came to overthrow the prince of the this world, and in me the chief archon has found nothing amiss?Don’t you believe that Jesus came to liberate us from this world – to cancel the power this world has over us – don’t you believe that Jesus came to prove to us that there is more than world and biology – there is spiritual life in heaven OH – of course you do not believe any of this – all you have is biologyD"Man is tempted – the choice to disobey God is always man’s and man’s alone because You cannot use your satan or the archon or even the Beast himself as an excuse for your choices R" Correct, but you also ignore that the archons are rulers of their own kingdom, or world, and Jesus acknowledged this face, calling the chief archon shedim devil, a prince (sar) of this world. You ignore this verse as well, it is mentioned many times throughout the OT and NT. The archon were cast to the earth and into the earth of Gen 1:1 - all physical creation All physical creation is their domain – is their kingdom Whay about this don’t you understand?D"YES – there is a prosecuting attorney whose job it is to expose all your sin – even that you forget – even that you didn’t realize was a sin Is God that particular over sinning? It only takes on bite of sin – to be a sinner – just ask Eve R" You must be hopelessly lost in a theory that is illogical than Dave. OK tell is – according to Ellen White how many sins does it take to be a sinner?So who is Yalbaoth, Just another name for the Beast – for the First Archon R" I see. So God created Yalboath, the chief archon shedim devil, to be a RA creature who was a prince of the world called earth. Whooo? Hang on... Jesus called this chief archon shedim devil a "sar" prince of this world.You refuse to define your terms so you can play word games – just to be confusingGod created Yalboath, the chief archon shedim devil, to be a (yester ra) creature – self - selfishwho was a prince of the world called earth. Correct – all earth of Gen 1:1 – all physical creation Whooo? Hang on... Jesus called this chief archon shedim devil a "sar" prince of this world.Correct – physical creation (earth) is their kingdom – they are the king here – the ‘sar’ hereSince when was the cow created as a prince of its dominion? Or the babboon a prince of its world? Or the monkey a prince of the jungle? Or even the lion is known as a king of the jungle, but the Bible never says the lion is a sar? Correct – all of these are lesser animals Gen 3:1 But the serpent was shrewder than any animal of the field that Adonai Elohim made. Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you are able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 2Co 2:11 so that we might not be outwitted by satan—for we are not ignorant of his schemes. Mat 10:16 “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. I have not heard the expression – to be as slippery as a snake – recentlyBut if you go back to the 1960s this was a common expression about a con-man – or a politician Since when was the cow created as a prince of its dominion?Answer = NEVER Cows, animals, viruses are made from dust of this earth – matter = biology = corporeal Angels are NOT made with matter – they are ethereal – spirit beings Archon are made with SOME MATTER – they are in between Archon are invisible to us as spirits – and visible to us as biology King Solomon’s Shedim – invisible to us Called into appearance by King Solomon’s ring Ugly – gross – miss formed – (aborted fetuses – of creation) So ugly that the women of gen 6 refused them – until they changed their form A prince is a king of a kingdom. Such a king rules over the subjects of his kingdom.Absolutely Agree – this corporeal reality – physicality – WORLD is their domain / Kingdom and has been since creationYou deny this idea, because you see the archons as creatures created by God as animals like the cow and babboon.I talk about A You post B and discuss your own post Man is a biological creature made from the dust – and God gave dominion of this world to man You must deny this idea, because you see man as creatures created by God as animals like the cow and babboon. You are so wrong. Why than did Jesus called the chief archon/shedim a prince of this world than?Because this is their kingdom – their domain and has been since the beginning They were here first D"YES – the First Archon – the Chief Archon – the Beast had offspring R" What? How can a creature without free will, programmed to do what it's programmed to do, have offspring Must people usually being with the birds and the beesHow do cows, sheep, birds, or man have offspring? – it is call procreation (this is sexual) How do bacteria, viruses, amoeba have offspring – (it is a-sexual) – and is called many names - mitosis – budding – cloning - Both result in propagation that includes shape shifting to make demi gods out of human beings? Isn't that going beyond programming? Or is it the full expression of their programmingAs invisible archon – they whisper in our ears – suggest – toy – torment – invade out thoughts As visible archon – they set themselves up as the ALPHA – the dominate masters – the rulers – the other-gods 200 of them or so with a leader satanail / sayaze (Chaldean satanas root origin) changed form to father the Nephilim – Correct Shape Shifting is NOT changing matter like magic Shape Shifting is planting the image in the others mind – like hypnosis Isn't that going beyond programming? - Or is it the full expression of their programmingOnce they could express their selfishness (yester ra) in the flesh – they lusted and fathered children Not only did they – NOT reproduce after their own kind – they did it to increase their family to increase their kingdoms Not only did they – sin against nature and man – they were all fully Kings of Tyre Did these 200 or so archon/angels sin – YES = sinning angels Jude 1:6 2 Pet 3:9 Locked away – not all the archon – just these 200 and their minion YES – they corrupted man in mind and genetically and are the cause of the Flood YES – they survive the flood as the god myths of the 99% About 200 in total with 20 main players – family units – infighting – demo-gods and chimeras YES – they survived the flood – but interfere here from the outside – gods from heaven – gods from alien worlds – space gods – ancient astronauts – all real YES – the Nephilim survive the flood – and as man killed them they became the evil spirits trapped to this earth YES – the Nephilim survive the flood as a genetic link (gene pool) Rephiem – Sons of Anak – the 7 tribes of Amorite YES – that genetic link to the archon remains to this day in the 13 families that rule the world – the Illuminati – Bilderbergs – Freemasons – shadow governments - shadow governments in collusion with space aliens – all real But you say the archons were made for deception? OK, so explain why they are a prince, under a king than?The NHL tells us they are arrange like an army – a military style hierarchy – commander in chief – Generals – Captains – ‘sars’ – and many privates without names other titles other than evil spirit, demon, archon, Jinn, Principalities How come Jesus called the chief shedim a father of lies and a murderer, these things are sins from the royal law?Because the archon offer WORLD as an empty plan for inflating your own (yester ra) The only thing the archon have to offer you is WORLD The offering to Jesus in the wilderness was only the WORLD And the WORLD will pass away – temporary Mar 8:36 For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? But shedim cannot sin, if they are mere animals programmed to do what they do best, deceive humans?Because you want to believe in a god of evil – you consistently misrepresent Gnostic teaching But shedim cannot sin, if they are mere animals programmed to do what they do best, (yester ra)But shedim cannot sin – i n the end – all (yester ra) is eliminated – Lake of Fire stuffRev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are too, OK – you have asked before – why would God created these selfish creatures (yester ra) – only to kill them in the Lake of Fire This is a good question – there are 2 answers 1- the cynical view – Its God’s creation – he does what He wants – what he does is beyond our understanding 2- 1Co 6:3 Don’t you know that we will judge angels?We Christians that have received the Divine Pardon – perhaps we Christian that were purified by Proportional Punishment – we Christians who have finally understood the greatest commandments – love God and love your fellow man as He loves us Gnostic Christianity uses the terminology – not just follow Christ but to be a Christ What would our judgment upon the angels sound like? Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. Luk 23:34 But Yeshua was saying, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts as we also have forgiven our debtors. D"One God expressed as spirit or 3D image R" I see. Expressed. Shape shifted and made a new image. Not a creation. Not a formation.Correct - Not a creation. Not a formation Pretend (stupid example) you are in a dark room – God is there talking to you – you can hear Him – but you cannot see Him Introduce LIGHT into the darkness and now you can see and hear God One God – that you can hear – Spirit – in the darkness One God that you can see in the Light – Christ Only one God Explain than how one YHWH is in heaven and the same time as one YHWH is on earth, both causing the destruction of Sodom? How can an expression be separated by space? in two different entities?Easy answer – God is omnipresentPro 15:3 The eyes of Adonai are everywhere, observing the wicked and the good. Jer 23:24 Can anyone hide himself in places so secret that I will not see him? Do I not fill heaven and earth?” It is a declaration of Adonai. 1Ki 8:27 So will God really dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain You! How much less this House that I have built! Psa 139:7 Where can I go from Your Ruach? Where can I flee from Your presence? Psa 139:8 If I go up to heaven, You are there, and if I make my bed in Sheol, look, You are there too. D"OK – and when it does the job God programmed it to do – why is that a sin? R" It's not according to your view. However one could charge God with sin, if GOD intentionally created animals to make man sin. ExplainCorrect God ordered the hit upon Job one could charge God with sin – if you did not define the wordBut if you define the word as – disobedience to God or a transgression of God’s Commandments – then how can God disobey Himself? RP"If your god was a god of love, why would you require the free will creature to be tested anyway? D" Robert – The Parable of the Prodigal Son R" you didn't answer my question. Distraction. stop using this story to match your Gnostic view. It is 100% the Gnostic viewFrom God we came – we souljourn here to (Jer 1:5) and then we retune to God God lets us go into the world - we souljourn here to (Jer 1:5) – and we can return as the Prodigal Son This = Reward and Joy for both God and the Son From God we come – we souljourn her to (Jer 1:5) – and we retune to God for judgment This is 100% Jewish – it is 100% Christian – it is 100% Gnostic R" OK so maybe the Beast can come after and destroy the womb of creation? Why would GOD create something dyfunctional in a creature? I thought God said all things were very functional? I am supposed to place Gnostic writings supplementing Moses torah? I don't think so. Torah says Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:2 Now the earth was chaos and waste, darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Ruach Elohim was hovering upon the surface of the water. Gen 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light!” and there was light. Gen 1:4 God saw that the light was good. So God distinguished the light from the darkness. Gen 1:5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” So there was evening and there was morning—one day. And 5 Creation Days later God said Gen 1:31 So God saw everything that He made, and behold it was very good. So there was evening and there was morning—the sixth day. D"All these words sound exactly alike – but they have different languages of origin Please demonstrate how they all mean the same thing R" Are they spelt the same though?Lets see Hebrew satan = שָׂטָן Arabic: ساميارس, Samiarush, also Shemhazai, Azza, Uzza, or Ouza, In Greek = Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin R" Are they spelt the same though? - NOIf the Greek is a translation of the Hebrew, as many scholars agree, eg the LXX, than the word stem SAN with the prefix hey, is the same word as in Greek SAN with it's suffix "as". What – not sure if you got these facts somewhere or just made them up G4567 search in the LXX = 0 matches in 0 versesD" proportional punishment – a purification then the First Resurrection R" What? Are you saying the humans who choose yester ra are given second chances again to make it to heaven?Two groups – believers and First FruitsFirst Fruits receive a Divine Pardon - never see Proportional Punishment At the transfiguration of Christ – Moses and Elijah were not in the grave waiting Resurrection Rev 20:4 the First fruits are there around the throne serving God before the First resurrection of believers All believers who have graduated from Proportional Punishment = the First Resurrection 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, so that each one may receive what is due for the things he did while in the body—whether good or bad. RP" What exactly is this god wanting from the free will of humans? Gnostics say belief? what is that? How is it measured and how much is enough to be saved? D" Good question Belief that Jesus Christ died for you sins (just a simple example) How much is enough – the smallest fraction possible as long as it is genuine R" Yes but what exactly is GOD wanting from us? YOu didn't answer the question? 1- belief is all that is required for eternal life – bad Christians are just as saved to eternal life as good Christians 2- belief + action = works for the Lord – (Jer 1:5) = mitzvah 3- animal says (yester ra) and sometimes this leads man to sin = chata 4- Jewish score board – mitzvah –vrs- chata 5- each mitzvah = reward – each chata = punishmentagl/NT = 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, so that each one may receive what is due for the things he did while in the body—whether good or bad. agl/NT = Luk 12:48 But the one who did not know and did things worthy of a beating will be whipped lightly. From everyone given much, much will be required; and from the one for whom more is provided, all the more they will ask of him. agl/NT = Jas 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers and sisters, since you know that we will receive a stricter judgment. agl/NT = Mat 5:19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever keeps and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. God is absolute in judgment – yet fair – each man according to his dueJewish – our punishment is to wake up in heaven in front of all heaven and a filthy sinner – this cause us shame – some have more shame than others – proportional RP"I asked the www why did Jesus have to die, nobody, not even you gave a proper answer. D" All prophets die (1) Jesus died to fulfill any and all scriptural prophesies – to satisfy scripture R" what Scriptures? Answer – any scripture anyone could drag up to discredit jesus as the Messiah – the blood – the seuffering servant – the lamb – etc - etc(2) Jesus died – so he could be Resurrection in front of the whole world R" Why not just raise a dead person instead? Because First Fruits is reserved for those who are spirit filled Christians in service to the Lord Were there First Fruits before Jesus Christ – absolutely YES – Moses – Elijah – Elisha – more And they are all in heaven – man’s spirit return to God God is the only being that can come and go as a Resurrected Man Christ appeared in the ahl/OT – angels appear as men – but man does not IN fact why do people die in the first place?Because Eve chose to disobey – Rom 5:12You look upon this as a curse that humanity carries as heredity – biology The Jews and I see this as just proof that any man – all men – humanity – chooses to disobey How come the cow and baboon dies but the archon creatures do not?The Beast is cast into the Lake of Fire – did you miss this?Cows and baboons are just things of this WORLD – it is temporary and will all pass away WOuld not the archon animals be over 6,000 years old already, earth local time?Hmmm – earth local time – MUCH OLDEREqual in age with creation itself Equal in age with all the angels (3) proving that the grave is not the end – just the transition into the after life R" What after life?The afterlife of the First Fruits that you deny Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and people sat upon them—those to whom authority to judge was given. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Yeshua and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image, nor had they received his mark on their forehead or on their hand. And they came to life and reigned with the Messiah for a thousand years. Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. (3) proving that the grave is not the end – just the transition into the after life R" What after life?Jesus was a Jew - speaking to a Jewish audience - and their after life is filled with Proportional Punishment - that you also denyQuestion" Would you expect the animals to obey moral laws? or are they allowed to kill and eat? No wonder you laughed at vegan sharks, you say all the animals kill and eat, that is God created function for them? Correct – animals are given the commandment to grow and multiply – in nature little fish eat microbes – big fish eat them – bigger fish eat them – once they die – scavengers eat them – them microbes – them fungi eat them – Nature is one large eating machine – stars eat hydrogen – black hole eat stars However – this cycle of balance is so amazing that man can only conclude an Intelligent Design – the finger prints of God are everywhere – on any scale you look How come the tree is allowed to decay and decompose, be eaten and ripped off it's leaves by herbivores which are in turn eaten by carnivores, while RAIN and SNOW and other RA things never happened until after Adam sinned and more RA happened until the great FLOOD make huges changes of RA on earth, almost 1400 years later.YES - GREAT QUESTION – NAILED ITEasy answer – the point of this web-site and my ministry – finally an interesting topic other that your satanBefore the flood – there was a very active and viable biological ecosystem – but no snow or rain Because before the flood – Protoplanet earth was a Jupiter sized gas giant Because the rocky planetoid at the center was not a world like this – it had no oceans – it was 65% of our current diameter – it was one continuous rocky crust - it had a very large and think gas giant atmosphere CoalGen 1:11 Then God said, “Let the land sprout grass, green plants yielding seed, fruit trees making fruit, each according to its species with seed in it, upon the land.” And it happened so. Gen 1:12 The land brought forth grass, green plants yielding seed, each according to its species, and trees making fruit with the seed in it, each according to its species. And God saw that it was good. Gen 1:13 So there was evening and there was morning—a third day. Gen 1:14 Then God said, “Let lights in the expanse of the sky be for separating the day from the night. They will be for signs and for seasons and for days and years. Trees before the sun = a time before anaerobic respirationAll the trees and plants that dies during this time period did not decay – it became coalwhile RAIN and SNOW and other RA things never happened until after Adam sinnedSorry Robert – rain and snow did not appear until Gen 9 – after the floodhow do you explain chaos happening to the creation, when it didn't rain, or snow until after the flood?Because the atmospheric conditions changed from a Jupiter sized Gas Giant protoplanet to a water world with 7 separate continents and a very thin atmosphereWEDD + FD-WEDT D"Book of Enoch6:1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' R" I assume these angels are called watchers, whatever. Are you saying these angels who came down are not the archons who were already on earth, so these are different creatures who sinned (ie angels) , in addition to the archons on the earth already? What is this made up crap? Are you saying these angels who came down are not the archons who were already on earthSo you are saying that the protesters that descended came down from heavenI failed to read your proof of this conceptRP"Jesus called him the father of sinningD" Please present your scriptureR" Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. RP"Jesus called him the father of sinningD" Please present your scriptureRom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. Sin entered the world throungh Eve (Adam) man - why do you deny scripture?D"Paul wrote in First Century Greek – he called then archon – our real struggle (Eph 6:12) R" Paul wrote to Timorthy to avoid Gnosis, so Paul is no Gnostic Sorry Robert Paul is also the author of Gnostic literature banned from your view by Rome
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Post by Dave on Feb 27, 2022 5:54:10 GMT -5
I have asked you a direct question A Does Ellen White contradict scripture
So far you have changed the subject to B, C, D, E, F, G But no answer to my direct question
Does Ellen White contradict scripture?
Here is an open opportunity for you to preach Ellen White – she is a prophet – she tells you how to read Hebrew scripture properly – according to you all the world is wrong except her – all science is wrong - the agl/NT authors are wrong - and the Jews have always been wrong
And you spend your time attacking Judaism, Gnosticism and the archon Do you have an answer – or is avoiding direct questions and changing the subject your only defense for her? – avoid – deflect – change the subject?
Use your own absolute standard - one error and all of it must be total garbage Ellen White is outside of Rome and therefore Gnostic - yet you argue Gnosticism is error
In fact Rome calls James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas Gnostic authors and has posted their writings on the INDEX of banned material - yet you argue Gnosticism is error
If you want to have any credibility at all - you should attempt to answer questions It would make it a two way conversation - instead of you just attacking every one else
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2022 18:22:53 GMT -5
RP " So why does Jesus say about the shedim devil (I speak of your view here) that Jesus came to overthrow the prince of the this world, and in me the chief archon has found nothing amiss?D" Don’t you believe that Jesus came to liberate us from this world – to cancel the power this world has over us – don’t you believe that Jesus came to prove to us that there is more than world and biology – there is spiritual life in heaven OH – of course you do not believe any of this – all you have is biologyR" You did not answer my discussion. You are ignoring this verse and it's application. D" What about this don’t you understand?R" I understand your archons on earth (world) perfectly Dave, but you ignore Jesus calling the chief archon a prince, a sar, a king over the earth. D" D"YES – there is a prosecuting attorney whose job it is to expose all your sin – even that you forget – even that you didn’t realize was a sinR" Impossible to achieve Dave, but you reply off track " OK tell is – according to Ellen White how many sins does it take to be a sinner?" no angel can record sins in your mind, sins that are no sins because they are forgiven automatically by Jesus, a sin-offering not unto death, another Bible verse you ignore? D" You refuse to define your terms so you can play word games – just to be confusing
God created Yalboath, the chief archon shedim devil, to be a (yester ra) creature – self - selfishR" Why woudl God create this "Yalboath, the chief archon shedim devil, to be a (yester ra) creature – self - selfish" who is a "sar" a prince of this world? Do you know what a "prince or king" implies Dave? SUddenly all the pieces fall into place? Why would GOD create a prince of earth, and than come to overthrow the prince of the earth? You ignore yet another Bible verse. D" Correct – physical creation (earth) is their kingdom – they are the king here – the ‘sar’ hereR" DO you have any idea what you're saying? You now agree the "Yalboath, the chief archon shedim devil, to be a (yester ra) creature – self - selfish" is a prince? OK fine. So why does Jesus come to overthrow the prince of earth? D" Correct – all of these are lesser animalsR" wow so bright an answer. Great. Why is "Yalboath, the chief archon shedim devil" grreater? Because "Yalboath, the chief archon shedim devil" is a prince of earth, a king. You claim God created "Yalboath, the chief archon shedim devil" to be king of earth? I would say you are wrong. Otherwise why does Jesus come to overthrow the king of earth? ANd why does the Father give earth to Jesus as a kingdom with Jesus, His Son as king of earth in Daniel Da 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. SO the Father grants Jesus to be king of the earth, but hang on, the "Yalboath, the chief archon shedim devil" is currently KING of the earth. How did "Yalboath, the chief archon shedim devil" get to be KING? Because he stole the crown from ADAM, who used to be prince of earth, but is now no longer. Sin changed that. Start listening to what your agreeing to and start reading the Scriptures correctly. RP " Why than did Jesus called the chief archon/shedim a prince of this world than?D" Because this is their kingdom – their domain and has been since the beginning They were here firstR" Yes and no Dave. Under stand what a prince is, a younger lesser king. The true of glory is our Creator Jesus, but Adam was created by Jesus to be prince of Jesus' world, place on the formless, void earth with sinning fallen angels on it, and Jesus told Adam not to sin, otherwise the chief sinner would take your crown as prince. Now where is this idea told in Scripture? Ro 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; When Adam sinned there was a court ruling in heaven, "condemnation" is a legal term. Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. We have fought alot over the word meaning of "kathistemi" OK it means to "establish" - SO how is a human "kathistemi" "established" as a sinning human? And how does a human become "established" as straight (by Jesus)? Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die. This passage offers many clues to the meaning of established.... Jesus comes to cast out the prince of earth, by dying on the cross, and paying a death price. What Bible verse, especially the moral royal law and its judgments of that law, speak of two beings (both claiming to be prince) , and the price of death for this idea of "establish" sinners? Only one verse offers all this, especially with Rev 12, the war in heaven, was over two princes fighting. Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, One prince overthrows the other prince because of this mishief, and yet pays the death penalty for mischief himself, than transfers the death penalty unto the other prince who did the mischief in the first place. The scape goat, the day of atoning for sins, and the prince of heaven casts out the prince of earth. We are established straight, when we faithfully support Jesus as our prince, ie allow Jesus words to rule over us every day. Likewise we are established crooked, when we listen to the prince of earth. You already acknowledge the archons influence humans to follow the worldly desires. But you also ignore this Ex 21 verse that speaks of mischief done by a mischief maker. You claim I use the verse out of context. No I don't, the heavenly family of elohiym has something like a compasion-centre from which creation and humans came from, indeed the breath of living itself is a gift given to us by the Father, via the medium (HS) of heaven. When you use Rev 12, Ex 21 and John 12, suddenly all the pieces fall into place. But you cannot have a mischief maker because that would imply a controversy rather than a contest. Your answer " Because this is their kingdom – their domain and has been since the beginning
They were here first" is not true. Jesus created a creation for Adam as prince, not the archons who were their first, yes, but lost their paradise because they are sinning. Adam was sinless so is allowed to be prince. Rp" Isn't that going beyond programming? - D" Or is it the full expression of their programming?R" OK, so why would the Father create a prince archon to intentionally test the free will of Adam? The problem with your idea, it sounds OK, but the problem I have with it, is you are saying GOD can establish mere dumb creatures to be a prince, without free will, and that the programming creatures can sin as much as they like but God doesn't count it as sinning, just programmed RA. I have never read anywhere in Scripture of dumb animals with or without programmed RA in them, to be a term like "prince"/"sar". Such a term has to imply free will beings, ones who can morally sin. Again another verse you ignore regarding this prince of earth Jesus referred to Ye are of your father, he is a liar and a murderer from the beginning. Such terms here are moral laws, and thus implies free will to decide to sin, hence it is not programmed ra that dumb animals might do. SO explain you view along my discussion here. D" Did these 200 or so archon/angels sin – YES = sinning angels Jude 1:6 2 Pet 3:9 Locked awayR" OH so you admit there were some sinning angels, so are these TWO different kinds of BAD on earth? Sinning angels locked away, and these dumb programmed RA animals called archons tempting man to sin? Plus a good angel termed attorney making sure God is fully aware of every sin we humans ever do? D" YES – the Nephilim survive the flood – and as man killed them they became the evil spirits trapped to this earthR" Now who has an overdone passion for bad creatures? You do, you have lots of evil spirits doing all kinds of things and we have to know our enemies? Really? Fight the good fight of faith, Scripture says first. D" The offering to Jesus in the wilderness was only the WORLD And the WORLD will pass away – temporaryR" YOu you neglect the term "prince".... no where (and you agree) is ever a dumb animal termed a "prince". SO programmed animals doing RA to test man's free will to choose yester ra, cannot be a "prince" unless that "prince" has moral laws to obey, and therefore sins wilfully like humans do. JOhn 8. Rev 12 and Ex 21 verses you ignore. RP " But shedim cannot sin – D" in the end – all (yester ra) is eliminated – Lake of Fire stuffR" NO Dave. YOur view cannot be so illogical. If the shedim are dumb animals and have no free will, they cannot sin, so GOD has no right to end such creatures in the lake of fire. However if the chief dumb animal is indeed a prince, than it must have free will, and chooses to morally sin, to be a father of lies and a murder, hence God ends their sinning ways in the Lake of FIre. My logic makes more sense than yours does. RP" why would God created these selfish creatures (yester ra) – only to kill them in the Lake of FireD" T his is a good question – there are 2 answers 1- the cynical view – Its God’s creation – he does what He wants – what he does is beyond our understandingR" That is a foolish answer. God is not irrational or illogical. He has immutable laws that apply to all creations, all physics and all moral creatures. I beg to differ but all animals obey God's moral laws, it's just humans were created as prince, not the cow, not the ant, but Adam was. If Jesus is a prince as the second Adam, than the first Adam was a prince, but lost his crown due to sinning. 2- 1Co 6:3 Don’t you know that we will judge angels?We Christians that have received the Divine Pardon – perhaps we Christian that were purified by Proportional Punishment – we Christians who have finally understood the greatest commandments – love God and love your fellow man as He loves us FUnny I thought angels are programmed spirit beings without free will, hence have no moral laws to obey, yet you agree 200 angels sinned and are locked away? You are illogical to say the least. ANd what is an angel go to do with a dumb creature called archons? This is a different category. Yet you misapply verses for different creature kinds? YOur view is all over the place. My understanding is the archons are cheribum, and yes they have free will and chose to sin. Your Gnostic writings are deceiving you. The torah makes so much simpler sense. RP" Explain than how one YHWH is in heaven and the same time as one YHWH is on earth, both causing the destruction of Sodom? How can an expression be separated by space? in two different entities?D" Easy answer – God is omnipresentR" What two different bodies? separated by space? So your theory is GOD can be a billion bodies all over the world all separated by space and yet the same entity? I guess photons are like that. But the minds of each body talk as separated bodies too? One body on earth prays to the other body in heaven, and this is the same entity...and you are OK with that ? SO when does your view begin following the similes of Scripture? It doesn't. You do not wish to follow the similes of Scripture? Torah speaks of a Father and SON and telling Abram with his one and only son to offer him on Mount Moriah. Its a simile. Means nothing to you though, another simile you ignore. Or every a verse like Ephesians 3:15 "Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named," SO elohiym is NOT a family in heaven, another verse you ignore. RP" However one could charge God with sin, if GOD intentionally created animals to make man sin. ExplainD" Correct. God ordered the hit upon Job one could charge God with sin – if you did not define the word But if you define the word as – disobedience to God or a transgression of God’s Commandments – then how can God disobey Himself?R" God can disobey Himself by breaking his own laws. That is why GOD has laws. So any creature can claim that God is unfair, or a tyrant, or a power that doesn't obey his own laws. God often breaks his physical laws, we term this a miracle. But no where is there an example of God breaking his own moral laws. When a sinner wishes to sin, God has to create the RA, so the sinner sees his own sinning. SOmetimes GOD uses RA from previous sinnings, to make sinners come into moral laws, without sinning. But God cannot disobey his own moral laws, otherwise, God would be a sinner too, and the sinners woudl be allowed to exist for eternity. Yes God allowed the opposer to attack Job because GOD knew He would not sin, but the opposer did not know this. The opposer attacks humans all the time so they sin, because sinning keeps them from being saved. And this causes the prince of earth to retain his kingdom. That is why the prince asked GOD to remove his hedge once more. And God said OK< but do not take his life. Obviously the opposer would have taken Job's life, but the more powerful one, said not too. Again you twist the verses and the meetings with God into a different view. Try asking yourself why would a prince or earth be annoyed over a subject being sinless? It is the sinless humans that make the prince of earth kingdom come to an end. Jesus dying to pay life for life, really paid the end of the prince and his mischief, but you ignore this verse too. D" This is 100% Jewish – it is 100% Christian – it is 100% GnosticR More talk and less Bible verses. Dave I let the torah speak. my view is matched by verses but you ignore these verses. How many do you ignore? Rev 12 womb of God Ex 21 mischief maker devours womb John 12 Jesus casts out prince archon, and pays life for life So this war in heaven was over a angel sinning to get his own kingdom SO God gives the sinning angels a kingdom, called earth, a prison, formless, void and darkness. But God creates a new world upon it, with a prince sinless Adam, care for this and guard it. Guard it from whom? The mischief maker. The mischief maker comes to His tree in the garden to speak, deceive Eve to sin. And devours her womb, the womb of God, the HS shrinks exposing nakedness and children of sin come forth. So the chief sinning angel becomes a prince of earth, and is allowed to vist God in heaven. God asks this prince about Job, a sinless human. Take away his hedge again and let me at him. OK God says but do not take his life. SO the prince obeys and attacks Job, without killing him. Even spares the wife. When Abah wants to sin more, God sends a prince of sin, to be the lying medium. When Israel sins every day, God sends the prince of snakes to kill Israel. After all sins are about death. And the chief prince of sin will also die for his sinning. He is a father of sins (lies and murders) and therfore the scape goat that receives all the sins of saints, to die in the desert. Than sin is no more. D" Lets see Hebrew satan = שָׂטָן Arabic: ساميارس, Samiarush, also Shemhazai, Azza, Uzza, or Ouza, In Greek = Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee originR" Are they spelt the same though? - D" NOR" I see. Imagine that different religions all over the world in the past with different meanings for their religion. How many religions were in heaven? Two - war in heaven. How many religions on earth? Thousands? war on earth. Funny why so many? Obviously the one in heaven divides his religions on earth so people are confused and thus live in confusion. Market ploy. RP" Are you saying the humans who choose yester ra are given second chances again to make it to heaven?D" All believers who have graduated from Proportional Punishment = the First ResurrectionR" Answer my question with y/n? D" belief is all that is required for eternal life – bad Christians are just as saved to eternal life as good ChristiansR" wow, so even the wicked get a chance to be saved after they die. I pity your confusion... Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: How is this possible in your view, if the Son is the same as the Father? Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. The son became human, hence divinity + humanity, but you say the Father took this also? But the verses imply the reading differently, so you oppose the common sense reading of the torah? Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (KJV) That means to me, we have to face and talk to Jesus while we are alive, not after we die. How does this work in your view, if your spirit never dies when your body dies? D" Because Eve chose to disobey – Rom 5:12 You look upon this as a curse that humanity carries as heredity – biology The Jews and I see this as just proof that any man – all men – humanity – chooses to disobeyR" you are wrong, some cannot choose to obey? Disciples asked Jesus how can a man be born blind, he did not choose to disobey? So you ignore this scripture too ? D" Hmmm – earth local time – MUCH OLDER Equal in age with creation itself Equal in age with all the angelsR" I see, so how old is our sinning problem on earth, for these archon to also be alives helping humans to sin? I thought 6,000 year is plenty? OK what say Dave? D" Jesus was a Jew - speaking to a Jewish audience - and their after life is filled with Proportional Punishment - that you also denyR" Yes I deny that people who die get a second chance to live with Jesus. D" Correct – animals are given the commandment to grow and multiply – in nature little fish eat microbes – big fish eat them – bigger fish eat them – once they die – scavengers eat them – them microbes – them fungi eat them –
Nature is one large eating machine – stars eat hydrogen – black hole eat starsR" Has it ever occurred to you all this might be the result of missing God's powers, rather than God creating it that way? D" However – this cycle of balance is so amazing that man can only conclude an Intelligent Design – the finger prints of God are everywhere Yes even when nature is also missing God's powers, the balance hang on with beauty... amazing God of love. R God could have chosen a world that when missing runs into chaos rapidly in just minutes, but no God created a universe that experiences missing yet continues nicely for 6,000 + years. Gives all the free will agents time to expereince sin and choose. D" YES - GREAT QUESTION – NAILED IT Easy answer – the point of this web-site and my ministry – finally an interesting topic other that your satanBefore the flood – there was a very active and viable biological ecosystem – but no snow or rainR" you miss my point, if RA came 1000 years in huge leaps and bounds in a flood, therefore there was NO natural RA before the flood much, only little bits gradually coming in, Adam sees a leaf fall, and cries... one little leaf, slowly the bacteria starve and begin eating the fallen leaves instead, some die off, some adapt to a new and changing world, but it;s gradual, over 1000 years. It has to be gradual to allow time for the creatures to adapt and for the new expressions of genes, THEY ALREADY HAD placed there before they were created. No evolution here, just different expression of genes. D" Trees before the sun = a time before anaerobic respiration All the trees and plants that dies during this time period did not decay – it became coalR" What? One yom = one local earth time, 24 hours of time. Rp " while RAIN and SNOW and other RA things never happened until after Adam sinnedD" Sorry Robert – rain and snow did not appear until Gen 9 – after the floodR" correct, I said that, you nick pick timing details, RP" how do you explain chaos happening to the creation, when it didn't rain, or snow until after the flood?D" Because the atmospheric conditions changed from a Jupiter sized Gas Giant protoplanet to a water world with 7 separate continents and a very thin atmosphereR" what? RP" Are you saying these angels who came down are not the archons who were already on earth, so these are different creatures who sinned (ie angels) , in addition to the archons on the earth already?D" What is this made up crap?(later) I failed to read your proof of this concept
R" you do, you say some 200 angels sinned. And there are archon on earth. That is two groups of "BAD", totally different creatures. Plus 1 good angel as an attorney doing a "BAD" job, that are three categories of "Bad". OK explain. ----------------- RP "Jesus called him the father of sinning D" Please present your scripture R" Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. RP"Jesus called him the father of sinning D" Please present your scripture------------------ Rob " Are you denying that Jesus called the prince archon, a father of lies and a murderer? JOhn 8:44 ---------------- D" Sin entered the world throungh Eve (Adam) man - why do you deny scripture?R" yes for humans, correct? But who is talking of humans? I am talking about the shedim in JOhn 8:44, why do you change themes?------------- D"S orry Robert Paul is also the author of Gnostic literature banned from your view by RomeR" That is an assumption. How do we know Paul wrote those letters? How come they were not published over and over until Rome came along in 300 AD? like the common received torah was published over and over until 300 AD? ------------------- D" It would make it a two way conversation - instead of you just attacking every one elseR" If you want to discredit Ellen White, do it according to the Science method I used. I have studied here words against the Hebrew meanings of Jeff Benner using ANcient Hebrew. If EGW wrote from GOD than the word meanings must align with ANcient Hebrew. I am not concerned with limetone making magma, how can I test that? too hard to dig up the earth? SO I test her word meanings against Jeff Benner. If you want to see how I evaluate here words, click and read my study on her. spiritualsprings.org/ss-1061.htmThe index of some words studied here spiritualsprings.org/ss-3.htmMuch of this study is beyond traditional SDA thinking. The * confirms this. (1) Ab: Fruit/Father * (2) Yahweh: Sacred Name * (3) El: Strong Authority * (4) Elohim: Powers (5) Echad: Unity (6) the Daily (7) Chata: Sin * (8) Chataah: Sin-offering * (9) Mocking laughter (10) Torah: teachings, rain (11) Tsuwr: FlintRock * (12) Cela: SaviourRock * (13) Hosts (14) Shuwb: Repent (15) Shadday: Holy-Spirit * (16) Qahal: Assembly (17) Edah: Congregation (18) Cross abolished? (19) the Righteous (20) Avon: Guilt * (21) Chamad: Desire (22) Grace (23) Ahab: Maleness-love * (24) Ahabuh: Femaleness-love * (25) Ruwach: Holy-Spirit (26) Kathistemi: Original Sin * (27) Evolution, Amalgamation, propensities * (28) Ets: Trees (29) Torah feasts * (30) Wilderness (31) Bread (32) Faithful * (33) Good Now if you find a word written anywhere by Ellen White that does not mean according to Jeff Benner Ancient Hebrew, let me know, and we have a error, a claim that God did not write her messages. But on the balance of these 33 words studies so far, one can predict you will not find any errors. (prediction is a science method idea) Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 27, 2022 20:40:39 GMT -5
D"I ask you a direct question about satan deceiving AdamR" I gave you a EGW quote and you missed reading it Did you miss it?I asked you A = D"I ask you a direct question about satan deceiving AdamYou gave me B = Adam understood that his companion had transgressed the command of God, disregarded the only prohibition laid upon them as a test of their fidelity and love. There was a terrible struggle in his mind. I asked you A = D"I ask you a direct question about satan deceiving AdamYou gave me B – yet againQuestion – where is your answer? Are you reluctant to answer a direct question? Avoid – deny – deflect - change the subject You have made this impossible standard for everyone else – one word wrong all of it garbage I have asked you a direct question ADoes Ellen White contradict scriptureSo far you have changed the subject to B, C, D, E, F, GBut no answer to my direct questionDoes Ellen White contradict scripture?Use your own absolute standard - one error and all of it must be total garbage R" If you want to discredit Ellen White, do it according to the Science method I used. I asked you a question – Does she contradict scripture?You have done everything except answer the questionNow if you find a word written anywhere by Ellen White that does not mean according to Jeff Benner Ancient Hebrew, let me know,Is that your answer to – Does Ellen White contradict scripture?Instead of saying yes or no – or attempt to explain my confusion - you posted a bunch of blah blah about words Why are you so afraid to answer the question? Can’t you defend your own prophet?I have answered all your question several times overDefend your views
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