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Post by Dave on Jan 29, 2022 18:10:50 GMT -5
D" So what are Christians supposed to do with the words of Jude? R" Wasn't this an oral speech of Enoch, heard and recorded, so we have it to this day? Didn't Enoch have a perfect memory and record things directly to his mind. Writing only came laterThe Book of Enoch22:8 And the Lord said to Michael: 'Go and take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of My glory.' 9 And Michael did thus, as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun's ray, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones. 10 And the Lord summoned one of his archangels by name Pravuil, whose knowledge was quicker in wisdom than the other archangels, who wrote all the deeds of the Lord; and the Lord said to Pravuil: 11 'Bring out the books from my store-houses, and a reed of quick-writing, and give it to Enoch, and deliver to him the choice and comforting books out of thy hand.' 23:1 AND he was telling me all the works of heaven, earth and sea, and all the elements, their passages and goings, and the thunderings of the thunders, the sun and moon, the goings and changes of the stars, the seasons, years, days, and hours, the risings of the wind, the numbers of the angels, and the formation of their songs, and all human things, the tongue of every human song and life, the commandments, instructions, and sweet-voiced singings, and all things that it is fitting to learn. 2 And Pravuil told me: 'All the things that I have told thee, we have written. Sit and write all the souls of mankind, however many of them are born, and the places prepared for them to eternity; for all souls are prepared to eternity, before the formation of the world.' 3 And all double thirty days and thirty nights, and I wrote out all things exactly, and wrote three hundred and sixty-six books. You criticize what you do not knowP.S. - all soul are created and written in the Book of Life before the foundations of the worldJewish - Calvinist - predestinationEph 1:11 In Him we also were chosen, predestined according to His plan. He keeps working out all things according to the purpose of His will— Why are you so afraid to study the prophesy of Enoch?Is it because it validates the returning Messiah as a God of wrath and vengeance – leading an army of 10,000 to destroy the land and the wicked Is this a Feel Good God of tov only that can do no harm? Enoch validates John and the Book of Revelation Why does it scare you so much – are you worried whose side your on D"There are 12 Rabbinic videos on this forum fully identifying Hebrew satan – not one of them support you Roman satan doctrine R" There are? I must watch them again, I must have missed a torah discussion using the OT Hebrew? So these videos evaluate the difference between Hebrew satan and Greek satanas? Stop being an ass – you know what you are saying is just stupid nonsense – but you cannot stop yourselfThere are 12 Rabbinic videos on this form fully identifying Hebrew satan – not one of them call him the Beast – or the shedim There are 12 Rabbinic videos on this form fully identifying Hebrew satan – not one of them support you Roman satan doctrine D"The text itself says – for the generation of the end-of-days R" OK, so we have nobody saved as Gnostic before, say in the days of the Reformation, when we were protestants? What were we protesting ? The ROME EDIT, yet GOD saw no need to revive Gnostic ideas? Ecc 3:1 For everything there is a season and a time for every activity under heaven: Ecc 3:2 a time to give birth and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted; Ecc 3:3 a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build up; Ecc 3:4 a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance; Ecc 3:5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather stones, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing; Ecc 3:6 a time to seek and a time to lose, a time to keep and a time to discard; Ecc 3:7 a time to tear apart and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak; Ecc 3:8 a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace. Only after 1945 is Gnostic revived? I wonder why? When I come will I find faith on earth, Jesus says? Because WWII ended in 1945 Because the Bretton-Woods Era began in 1952 Because background nuclear radiation was loose upon the world Because the Nag Hammadi was discovered 1945 Because the dead Sea Scrolls were discovered 1947 Because Israel is once again gathered from all the world to be a Nation 1948 Because humanity is in a demographic winter that we cannot escape Because of this demographic winter – the system will collapse / readjust Because humanity is already in the Death / Decline Phase of our life cycle – and we cannot stop it Because this upcoming demographic / social / system / governmental collapse / readjustment will be a global depression / tribulation Will the globe survive the next 20-30 years without a nuclear war? – Scripture says noRecognise what is in your sight - scripture is alive and well and unfolding before our very eyes
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2022 15:52:24 GMT -5
D" (Book of Enoch) 3 And all double thirty days and thirty nights, and I wrote out all things exactly, and wrote three hundred and sixty-six books. R Interesting that Enoch was given a vision to write 366 books over a period of 60 days. Now we have a problem, because the first torah scrolls come from Enoch and not Moses?
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
It says to the torah of Moses, not the torah of Enoch first. Why is that?
Lu 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Jesus did not begin with the Book of Enoch, but of Moses....
Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
No mention of any book older than Moses.
Ac 28:23 ¶ And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. (KJV)
No mention of any book other than Moses.
D"Why are you so afraid to study the prophesy of Enoch? R" OK tell me something Enoch prophesied for the end of time?
You give me the impression that Gnostic Christianity is the first true theology of Jesus, and later the Roman Edit religion came along. If that is so, why this verse than?
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of Gnostic writings, falsely so called: 21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
I place my trust in Moses, not Enoch and your so called Gnostic writings. I suspect they are written by crafty fallen angels, using humans who worship the archons as saviours.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 30, 2022 18:43:13 GMT -5
D" (Book of Enoch) 3 And all double thirty days and thirty nights, and I wrote out all things exactly, and wrote three hundred and sixty-six books. R Interesting that Enoch was given a vision to write 366 books over a period of 60 days.Yes 365 and 366 amazing numbers associated with Enoch The length of a year – the length of one side of the Great Pyramid of GizaNow we have a problem, because the first torah scrolls come from Enoch and not Moses? It says to the torah of Moses, not the torah of Enoch first. Why is that?Who ever heard of the term The Torah of Enoch – until you invented it this very post?Why do you have to make up bull shit of your own invention – then argue against your own invention It is your argument style OH – how I long for a scholar that can just digest information without having an attitude attack Jesus did not begin with the Book of Enoch, but of Moses....You could not be more wrongChrist - the Saving Messiah - has been 100% part of the Jewish theology since the very beginning The Gospel of Jesus Christ was full common knowledge to the audience of Jesus Christ The Gospel of Jesus Christ is 100% Jewish Kabbalah The First Book of Adam and Eve2:1 BUT when our father Adam, and Eve, went out of the garden, they trod the ground on their feet, not knowing they were treading. 2 And when they came to the opening of the gate of the garden, and saw the broad earth spread before them, covered with stones large and small, and with sand, they feared and trembled, and fell on their faces, from the fear that came upon them; and they were as dead. 3 Because--whereas they had hitherto been in the garden-land, beautifully planted with all manner of trees--they now saw themselves, in a strange land, which they knew not, and had never seen. 4 And because at that time they were filled with the grace of a bright nature, and they had not hearts turned towards earthly things. 5 Therefore had God pity on them; and when He saw them fallen before the gate of the garden, He sent His Word unto father Adam and Eve, and raised them from their fallen state. 3:1 GOD said to Adam, "I have ordained on this earth days and years, and thou and thy seed shall dwell and walk in it, until the days and years are fulfilled; when I shall send the Word that created thee, and against which thou hast transgressed, the Word that made thee come out of the garden and that raised thee when thou wast fallen. 2 Yea, the Word that will again save thee when the five days and a half are fulfilled." 3 But when Adam heard these words from God, and of the great five days and a half, he did not understand the meaning of them. 4 For Adam was thinking that there would be but five days and a half for him, to the end of the world. 5 And Adam wept, and prayed God to explain it to him. 6 Then God in His mercy for Adam who was made after His own image and similitude, explained to him, that these were 5,000 and 500 years; and how One would then come and save him and his seed. 7 But God had before that made this covenant with our father, Adam, in the same terms, ere he came out of the garden, when he was by the tree whereof Eve took the fruit and gave it him to eat. 8 Inasmuch as when our father Adam came out of the garden, he passed by that tree, and saw how God had then changed the appearance of it into another form, and how it withered. 9 And as Adam went to it he feared, trembled and fell down; but God in His mercy lifted him up, and then made this covenant with him. 10 And, again, when Adam was by the gate of the garden, and saw the cherub with a sword of flashing fire in his hand, and the cherub grew angry and frowned at him, both Adam and Eve became afraid of him, and thought he meant to put them to death. So they fell on their faces, and trembled with fear. 11 But he had pity on them, and showed them mercy; and turning from them went up to heaven, and prayed unto the Lord, and said:-- 12 "Lord, Thou didst send me to watch at the gate of the garden, with a sword of fire. 13 "But when Thy servants, Adam and Eve, saw me, they fell on their faces, and were as dead. O my Lord, what shall we do to Thy servants?" 14 Then God had pity on them, and showed them mercy, and sent His Angel to keep the garden. 15 And the Word of the Lord came unto Adam and Eve, and raised them up. 16 And the Lord said to Adam, "I told thee that at the end of five days and a half, I will send my Word and save thee. 17 "Strengthen thy heart, therefore, and abide in the Cave of Treasures, of which I have before spoken to thee." 18 And when Adam heard this Word from God, he was comforted with that which God had told him. For He had told him how He would save him. Just in case you missed it 15 And the Word of the Lord came unto Adam and Eve, and raised them up. The Word – John 1:1-416 And the Lord said to Adam, "I told thee that at the end of five days and a half, I will send my Word and save thee. The Word – John 1:1-4And when the prophesies - are fulfilled; when I shall send the Word that created thee, and against which thou hast transgressed, the Word that made thee come out of the garden and that raised thee when thou wast fallen. The Word – John 1:1-42 Yea, the Word that will again save thee when the five days and a half are fulfilled." The Word – John 1:1-414:1 THEN Adam said unto God: "O Lord, take Thou my soul, and let me not see this gloom any more; or remove me to some place where there is no darkness." 2 But God the Lord said to Adam, "Verily I say unto thee, this darkness will pass from thee, every day I have determined for thee, until the fulfilment of My covenant; when I will save thee and bring thee back again into the garden, into the abode of light thou longest for, wherein is no darkness. I will bring thee, to it--in the kingdom of heaven." 3 Again said God unto Adam, "All this misery that thou hast been made to take upon thee because of thy transgression, will not free thee from the hand of Satan, and will not save thee. 4 "But I will. When I shall come down from heaven, and shall become flesh of thy seed, and take upon Me the infirmity from which thou sufferest, then the darkness that came upon thee in this cave shall come upon Me in the grave, when I am in the flesh of thy seed. 5 "And I, who am without years, shall be subject to the reckoning of years, of times, of months, and of days, and I shall be reckoned as one of the sons of men, in order to save thee." 6 And God ceased to commune with Adam. Just in case you missed it When I shall come down from heaven, and shall become flesh of thy seed, and take upon Me the infirmity from which thou sufferest, then the darkness that came upon thee in this cave shall come upon Me in the grave, when I am in the flesh of thy seed. 5 "And I, who am without years, shall be subject to the reckoning of years, of times, of months, and of days, and I shall be reckoned as one of the sons of men, in order to save thee."24:1 TEN the merciful God, good 'and lover of men, looked upon Adam and Eve, and upon their blood, which they had held up as an offering unto Him; without an order from Him for so doing. But He wondered at them; and accepted their offerings. 2 And God sent from His presence a bright fire, that consumed their offering. 3 He smelt the sweet savour of their offering, and showed them mercy. 4 Then came the Word of God to Adam, and said unto him, "O Adam, as thou hast shed thy blood, so will I shed My own blood when I become flesh of thy seed; and as thou didst die, O Adam, so also will I die. And as thou didst build an altar, so also will I make for thee an altar on the earth; and as thou didst offer thy blood upon it, so also will I offer My blood upon an altar on the earth. 5 "And as thou didst sue for forgiveness through that blood, so also will I make My blood forgiveness of sins, and blot out transgressions in it. 6 "And now, behold, I have accepted thy offering, O Adam, but the days of the covenant, wherein I have bound thee, are not fulfilled. When they are fulfilled, then will I bring thee back into the garden. 7 "Now, therefore, strengthen thy heart; and when sorrow comes upon thee, make Me an offering, and I will be favourable to thee." Just in case you missed itthe Word of God to Adam, and said unto him, "O Adam, as thou hast shed thy blood, so will I shed My own blood when I become flesh of thy seed; and as thou didst die, O Adam, so also will I die. And as thou didst build an altar, so also will I make for thee an altar on the earth; and as thou didst offer thy blood upon it, so also will I offer My blood upon an altar on the earth.Christ - the Saving Messiah - has been 100% part of the Jewish theology since the very beginning The Gospel of Jesus Christ was full common knowledge to the audience of Jesus Christ The Gospel of Jesus Christ is 100% Jewish Kabbalah No mention of any book other than Moses.the Cave of Treasures, - and the Book of the Cave of Treasures 1- Helped instruct Adam and Eve 2- Many consider the Great Pyramid of Giza – as the Pyramid of Enoch – for many reasons (information that survived the Flood) 3- Noah found the instructions for the Ark – in this same book 4- (suggested lost at Babel) 5- Also known as – the Book of Noah (wiki) The Book of Noah is thought to be a non-extant Old Testament work, attributed to Noah. It is quoted in several places in another pseudepigraphal work, 1 Enoch,[1] and is mentioned in another, the Book of Jubilees.[2] There have also been fragments attributed to a Book of Noah in the Dead Sea Scrolls. D"Why are you so afraid to study the prophesy of Enoch? R" OK tell me something Enoch prophesied for the end of time?Just a random Mainstream Christian linkgodshotspot.wordpress.com/2021/02/14/jesus-comes-with-saints/Enoch says Jesus will come in Scripture texts proof Jesus believed. Christ’s COMES to judge prophesied as early as in times before flood. The Lord Jesus COMES in A GLORIOUS TIME to save all who believe but time of dread for those condemned by GOD’S Wrath. Jude 1:14, says Enoch seventh from Adam one of those prophesied saying, the Lord COMES with ten thousands of his SAINTS. Prophet Enoch the son of Cain in Genesis 4:17, third from Adam knew about Jesus a Promised Seed of woman Eve. In Jude 1:4 -17 prophesy is pending and relevant hope of deliverance for all. Repent sinners know COMING of Christ is revealed to Adam. JESUS’ SECOND COMING foretold is future things to conclude last age of world. Jude knew ancient books confirmed in other Revelation messages in history preserved by God. Jude told genuine truth in ancient story stop mocking God’s plans coming on earth.Jesus did not begin with the Book of Enoch, but of Moses....You could not be more wrongYou just argue against what you do not know You give me the impression that Gnostic Christianity is the first true theology of Jesus, Finally – you do me, my ministry, and tis forum justiceJesus, His disciples, and His audience were all 100% Jewish with a Jewish theology background The agl/NT simply adds Jesus Christ as the Jewish Messiah Jesus said Himself – he did not come to change a thing – only to fulfill As with everything in God’s Plan – there is the theme of seconds and even thirds It is not the first coming – but the second It is not the first death – but the second death It is not the first age of man (Adam) – it is the second age (Abraham) And NOW in God’s Plan It is not the first coming – only to the Jews – only for the Jews – it opens the Age of the Gentile To everything there is a time – a season to Plant and a season to Harvest Do the Jews have a valid reason for rejecting Jesus as the Messiah? – YES Jesus did not fulfill all the prophesies Instead Jesus introduced the – Age of the Gentile – and the Second Coming and the New Heaven and Earth The Jews had to reject Jesus Christ – it is the Plan – they remain scattered – until regathered from all the ends of the earth for the Final Conflict Jesus did not fulfill all the prophesies They are yet to be fulfilled for Jew and Christian alike You give me the impression that Gnostic Christianity is the first true theology of Jesus, Finally – you do me, my ministry, and tis forum justiceJesus, His disciples, and His audience were all 100% Jewish with a Jewish theology background The agl/NT simply adds Jesus Christ as the Jewish Messiah Jesus said Himself – he did not come to change a thing – only to fulfill James, John, Paul, Peter, - knew Jesus Christ on a personal level – they are the authors of the agl/NT The agl/NT is a synoptic Gospel – tells a story – beginning to end – the Good News James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, Thomas - knew Jesus Christ on a personal level – they are also the authors of non-Roman Canon – found in tack within the Hag Hammadi LibraryThe standing religious authority calls them Gnostic Gospels 11-16 books written by the very men that walked and talked with Jesus Christ before and after the Resurrection These Nag Hammadi text are reflections on – personal communication with Jesus Christ one on one Many of these text says – they happened during the time between the Resurrection and Pentecost These texts are very Jewish – DUH – so were the authors These texts are - all 100% Jewish with a Jewish theology background The agl/NT simply adds Jesus Christ as the Jewish Messiah The Nag Hammadi Texts only discuss our real struggle (Eph 6:12) – the Beast of revelation, the serpent race – we call devils and satanas and later the Roman Edit religion came along. YES Robert – there is nothing Jewish about the Catholic – Rome persecuted the Jews and all the First Christians or anyone who Judizised YES – Messianic Jews – have a King – Christ in heaven YES - Messianic Jews - have a Priest – The Comforter YES - Messianic Jews - have a Church- the Body of Christ – the Bride of Christ YES Robert – there is nothing Jewish about the Catholic – Rome forces dependency upon Rome YES Robert – there is nothing Jewish about the Catholic – Rome decided what you can know (thought police) YES Robert – there is nothing Jewish about the Catholic – Rome decided what you could read (thought police) YES Robert – there is nothing Jewish about the Catholic – Rome kept you from even reading it yourself for 1500 years (thought police) YES Robert – there is nothing Jewish about the Catholic – Rome forces dependency upon Rome and they invented satan to keep you coming into church and tithing and later the Roman Edit religion came along. If that is so, why this verse than?1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of Gnostic writings, falsely so called: 21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen. Please detail how the authors of the Nag Hammadi deny Jesus Christ as the Messiah of the JewsI suspect they are written by crafty fallen angels, using humans who worship the archons as saviours.You just howel at what you do not knowOH – how I long for a scholar that can just digest information without having an attitude attack
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2022 14:20:03 GMT -5
Greetings
Hmm? You have my attention. As I said before, "You give me the impression that Gnostic Christianity is the first true theology of Jesus,"
And your response to this was "
D"Finally – you do me, my ministry, and this forum justice
R" so I get the impression that you agree with me, that you consider Gnostics writings the truest and earliest writings of God's truth.
My understanding is, the general word for writings can be written in different ways, in Hebrew the word for writings is "kathab", and in Greek the word for "writings" is "graphe".
rk#:1124 / graf-ay (noun): Scripture Freq:&51 Heb#:3791 כתב / k-tav (noun): Writing—A record of a story, thoughts or instructions inscribed on a variety of media including stone, papyrus, leather or parchment. (Jeff Benner)
My understanding is, when writings are meant to be teachings, in Hebrew the word for writings is "torah", and in Greek the word for "teachings of law" is "nomos".
So I see from all this, but you consider it strange, when I said that makes the Book of Enoch and the Book of Adam and Eve, the first of the books of the torah, the teachings that GOD gave to mankind.
1) the Cave of Treasures, - and the Book of the Cave of Treasures
This idea of truth coming from a cave, is pagan; is it not? Pardon my ignorance?
2) the recorded idea that Jesus died on the Cross to save mankind 5,500 years after the sin of Adam and Eve, is also wrong, in my humble understanding?
"Yet this was but the beginning of His condescension! It would have been an almost infinite humiliation for the Son of God to take man's nature even when Adam stood in innocence in Eden. But Jesus accepted humanity when the race had been weakened by 4000 years of sin. Like every child of Adam He accepted the results of the working of the law of heredity. These results were shown in the history of His earthly ancestors. He came with such a heredity to share our temptations and give us the example of a sinless life.
Satan hated Christ. He hated Him who pledged Himself to redeem sinners. Yet into the world where Satan claimed dominion, God permitted His Son to come, a helpless babe, subject to the weakness of humanity, to meet life's peril in common with every soul, to fight the battle as every child of humanity must fight it—at the risk of failure and eternal loss. ( From Heaven With Love, p. 28.1 (Ellen Gould White)
My understanding Jesus died just 4,033 years or so on the Cross, +/- a few years? not the amount your Gnostic writings write, and teach, ie the oldest so called torah we have.
If Jesus died 5,500 years on the Cross and we add 2200 years on top of this, we have 7,700 years already, more than the prophetic week of time for Satan to prove his kingdom works.
But if Jesus died 4,000 and we add 2200 years, we have 6,200 years, and thus we are slightly over and very close to the probation time our Father will give all humans the opportunity to repent. Nobody knows the exact hour of Jesus return.
My understanding is Adam, Enoch and Noah memorized the teachings, orally, the teachings (torah) was not written down until Moses wrote them down FIRST formally.
You are now claiming the oral teachings were written teachings, as well.
"24:1 TEN the merciful God, good 'and lover of men, looked upon Adam and Eve, and upon their blood, which they had held up as an offering unto Him; without an order from Him for so doing. But He wondered at them; and accepted their offerings.
2 And God sent from His presence a bright fire, that consumed their offering.
3 He smelt the sweet savour of their offering, and showed them mercy.
4 Then came the Word of God to Adam, and said unto him, "O Adam, as thou hast shed thy blood, so will I shed My own blood when I become flesh of thy seed; and as thou didst die, O Adam, so also will I die. And as thou didst build an altar, so also will I make for thee an altar on the earth; and as thou didst offer thy blood upon it, so also will I offer My blood upon an altar on the earth. (Gnostic teachings)"
This passage gives me the impression Adam did the offering of sacrifice from his own initiative, and that God responded.
Pardon, but I beg to differ.
Jesus told Adam to take a sheep and kill it for his sin, showing that Jesus would die a simile death for Adam's sinning, is a totally different teaching to your Gnostic one. They were both together in this awesome ceremony.
You also negate why Jesus died for sin - a question you never answered on your website...
But we do ...
Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
A mischief maker must die for making mischief. You do not have such a being. I pity your misunderstanding of Scripture. Jesus did not cause the mischief, neither did God, but one opposing GOD did.
The serpent lied and deceived Eve with lying, saying nobody will surely die when they sin. But they did and they will, including the mischief maker.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 31, 2022 14:56:35 GMT -5
Hmm? You have my attention. As I said before, "You give me the impression that Gnostic Christianity is the first true theology of Jesus," And your response to this was " D"Finally – you do me, my ministry, and this forum justice R" so I get the impression that you agree with me, that you consider Gnostics writings the truest and earliest writings of God's truth. YES Robert – I consider the writers of the agl/NT the truest and most accurate representation of Jesus Christ and his personal teachings James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas all knew Jesus Christ personally – both before and after His Resurrection
So I see from all this, but you consider it strange, when I said that makes the Book of Enoch and the Book of Adam and Eve, the first of the books of the torah, the teachings that GOD gave to mankind. Nice word game – Enoch is not the Law given to Moses for God’s chosen people
1) the Cave of Treasures, - and the Book of the Cave of Treasures This idea of truth coming from a cave, is pagan; is it not? Pardon my ignorance? Adam and Eve + Jewish Kabbalah = pagan according to you Enoch and King Solomon all pagan according to you James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas – all pagan according to you
2) the recorded idea that Jesus (WILL) died on the Cross to save mankind after the sin of Adam and Eve, is also wrong, in my humble understanding? So you deny Christianity in its entirety? Is John 3:16 pagan to you as well
You also negate why Jesus died for sin - a question you never answered on your website...
4 Then came the Word of God to Adam, and said unto him, "O Adam, as thou hast shed thy blood, so will I shed My own blood when I become flesh of thy seed; and as thou didst die, O Adam, so also will I die. And as thou didst build an altar, so also will I make for thee an altar on the earth; and as thou didst offer thy blood upon it, so also will I offer My blood upon an altar on the earth. (Gnostic teachings)"
Jesus died for our sins so that we do not Have to Written into the Jewish Kabbalah 350 years before Jesus Christ
A mischief maker must die for making mischief. You do not have such a being. I pity your misunderstanding of Scripture. Jesus did not cause the mischief, neither did God, but one opposing GOD did. The serpent lied and deceived Eve with lying, saying nobody will surely die when they sin. But they did and they will, including the mischief maker.
You simply deny God and His words
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Only you and your SDA teach that the serpent lied Backwards and opposed to the totality of Jewish teaching – backwards and opposed to Messianic Christianity – backwards and opposed to Mainstream Christianity
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 14:33:21 GMT -5
D" Nice word game – Enoch is not the Law given to Moses for God’s chosen peopleR" It does not say Moses torah, it says Isa 8:20 To the TEACHINGS and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Later this is implied because Moses was the first to write the TEACHINGS down. Not Enoch as you claim. D" the Law given to Moses for God’s chosen people" R" I thought all humanity is included as God's chosen people? D" Jesus died for our sins so that we do not Have toR" You are avoiding my thrust Question Did Adam kill the sheep on his own accord, as the Gnostic torah teachings imply? Or did Jesus ask Adam to do the sacrifice first, as the Moses torah teachings imply? RP" A mischief maker must die for making mischief. You do not have such a being. I pity your misunderstanding of Scripture. Jesus did not cause the mischief, neither did God, but one opposing GOD did.The serpent lied and deceived Eve with lying, saying nobody will surely die when they sin. But they did and they will, including the mischief maker. D" You simply deny God and His words
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.R" You just goofed, posting a verse that is a response to Adam, a response to Adam's sinning. A response because of the verse I gave you, you ignore. Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, JOhn 3:16 is a response to the mischief maker, making mischief to the womb of the HS, containing the living given force of both Adam and Eve, and all future children through them. Your John 3 :16 also has "FAITH" in the solution. In order to be saved by Jesus, you have to by faith allow His spirit to rule inside you. D" You simply deny God and His wordsR" Negation is not a good reply is it Dave? You negate Scripture not me. Question: How many points in 3D space does it take to make a straight line? Ro 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Ro 4:5 But to sinner that worketh not the teachings in his own human strength, but "supports" on Jesus who straightens the ungodly, the sinner's "support" is counted as "straightness". You cannot make a straight line with three points, however close the third point is to the other two, if it is out by a trillionth of an inch, it is crooked. No, a straight line is simply made from any TWO points anywhere in 3D space. The first point is Jesus, and the second is you. But since we have sinned we come with another master inside of us, called Baal or SELF. Hence the reason why our old spirit, must die. Are the two points equal in size and importance? No Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. Jesus as a point is infinite in size and importance. You on the other hand are infinitely small in size and importance. You can only give Him the decision to hold His Hand. But you have this idea that you old spirit has communion with His spirit and thus the three points are becoming straight? No only two points are allowed, and the relationship is immediately straight. --------------------------------- Question: Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. I want to ask you Dave as a translation scholar, Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were "established as" sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be "established as" righteous. Why is the word "kathistemi" as "establish" implying in this verse. How does Adam's sin establish sinners in the future How does Jesus death as a sin-offering establish us as straight Ge 42:6 And Joseph was the governor <shalliyt> over the land , H7989 m) 9MPW (9MPW Sh-LYTh) — Master: One who has dominion over another, also a rule or law as a master. [Hebrew and Aramaic] [freq. 14] |kjv: governor, mighty, power, ruler, rule, captain, lawful| {str: 7989, 7990} Jeff Benner sees this word to mean a ruler or master. Mat 24:45 WhoG5101 thenG686 isG2076 a faithfulG4103 andG2532 wiseG5429 servant,G1401 whomG3739 hisG846 lordG2962 hath made rulerG2525 overG1909 hisG848 household,G2322 to giveG1325 themG846 meatG5160 inG1722 due season?G2540 Esword lists rulerG2525 as ruler Mat 24:47 VerilyG281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 ThatG3754 he shall make him rulerG2525 G846 overG1909 allG3956 hisG848 goods.G5224 Esword lists rulerG2525 G846 as ruler Act 6:3 Wherefore,G3767 brethren,G80 look ye outG1980 amongG1537 youG5216 sevenG2033 menG435 of honest report,G3140 fullG4134 of the HolyG40 GhostG4151 andG2532 wisdom,G4678 whomG3739 we may appointG2525 overG1909 thisG5026 business.G5532 Esword lists appointG2525 . Hmm? not consistent? LXX lists Gen 42: 6 as Icoafjtp 8s Tjv o dp%cov xrjq yr\q omoq S7rcbA,si 7iavx( And Joseph was the ruler of the land; Same idea as above. I know w e have been through this all before, but I cannot understand how the LXX also uses this word as Jeff Benner does, meaning "ruler", and this is cross referenced to the NT Ac 7:10 ... and <kai> he made <kathistemi> him <autos> governor <hegeomai> over <epi> Egypt The cross reference ADDS another word, that the OT doesn't... SO we have perhaps the idea that Joeseph was " Established as a ruler" This idea can be written with other contexts Ac 7:27 ... Who <tis> made < kathistemi> thee <se> a ruler < archon> Ac 7:27 Who established you as a ruler? OK, I get this idea, maybe kathestimi means "establish" and "shalliyt" means "ruler" But often when writers write they take short cuts and imply the other words, they did not write are there also. Ac 7:27 Who established you as a ruler? can also be written as Ac 7:27 Who ruled you as a ruler? The question remains, when Adam sinned, how can the future children in Adam be established as sinners, before such humans choose to sin themselves? And in Jesus, how does a sinner be established as straight? Regarding the sinner establish idea: Ge 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. I see sin-offering as a ruler over us as sinners, because Adam did our first sin-offering, hence we humans are established as sinners before we sin, because our fallen flesh is trapped in the sin-offering that requires our non-existence.In other words, sin-offering rules over us, and thus as sinners we are established as sinners before we even sin. All I am doing is logically applying the missing application the kathistemi implies. The writer may have left out all the word application, to write more succinctly. Your comments please? ------------------------------------- D" Only you and your SDA teach that the serpent lied Backwards and opposed to the totality of Jewish teaching R" so the Gnostic gospel version says the serpent never lied, nor has ever sinned, but does the bad job God requires of him, even as a good angel obeying the Lord? And this second tree with an opposing voice, was simply to test and tempt Adam to violate the free will God gave them? Fair enough. In ancient Chinese pictograph why is the Devil written as 1) garden 2) moving in the garden 3) to him and her 4) secretly 5) among the two important trees 6) under cover The Chinese word "mo" means "tempter" and does not depict a good angel doing a bad job. But rather a sneaky angel deceiving Eve under the cover of trees, with subtle words of deception. But you ignore this pre-Roman account of the temptor? Written 3,000 BC, long before even a Jew existed? This is how Noah saw this meaning of "devil", and the SHADDAY, or Chinese Shung Dei. Noah became the father of the Chinese, and there is your pre-Roman proof, long before Jews even existed. If you theory is correct why was this angel doing things in secret, under cover and coming to him and her? Why not just talk to Adam first? On the balance of probabilities, your theory is wrong, and the serpent sinned to make Eve also sin. The serpent was used to sinning. "under cover", "Secret" are all probability issues arising from sin. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 1, 2022 16:26:12 GMT -5
Moses was the first to write the TEACHINGS down. Not Enoch as you claim. I simply repeat Jewish literature - your claim is that the Jews did not know their own religion
D"the Law given to Moses for God’s chosen people" R" I thought all humanity is included as God's chosen people? WOW – you don’t understand the ahl/OT do you
D"Jesus died for our sins so that we do not Have to R" You are avoiding my thrust Question Did Adam kill the sheep on his own accord, as the Gnostic torah teachings imply? Or did Jesus ask Adam to do the sacrifice first, as the Moses torah teachings imply?
What – where is your scripture for this? It is hard to answer – your made up inventions If you are referring to Gen 3:21 – no sheep mentioned there
Jesus did not cause the mischief, neither did God, but one opposing GOD did. YES Robert – You need to have someone to blame all the ra upon You admit that man would sin anyway – even without your god of evil
The serpent lied You have no proof of your doctrine – no one – even your Hebrew expert does not agree with you
D" You simply deny God and His words Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
But since we have sinned we come with another master inside of us, called Baal or SELF. This is your doctrine – (yester ra) did not exist until AFTER Eve choose it It is less than pleasurable / believable / based in reality
Question: Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
I want to ask you Dave as a translation scholar,
Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were "established as" sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be "established as" righteous.
How does Adam's sin establish sinners in the future Proof that without any help form your satan – man would sin anyway - your very words
How does Jesus death as a sin-offering establish us as straight Because – His death is enough for all of us – and all who believe this will never die a spiritual death – but life forever – eternally – without end – forever – John 3:16
Ge 42:6 And Joseph was the governor <shalliyt> over the land , H7989 - Jeff Benner sees this word to mean a ruler or master. YES – that is what a governor is - agree
Mat 24:45 WhoG5101 thenG686 isG2076 a faithfulG4103 andG2532 wiseG5429 servant,G1401 whomG3739 hisG846 lordG2962 hath made rulerG2525 overG1909 hisG848 household,G2322 to giveG1325 themG846 meatG5160 inG1722 due season?G2540
Esword lists rulerG2525 as ruler NO IT DOES NOT G2525 – καθίστημι - kathistēmi - From G2596 and G2476; to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, conduct, make, ordain, set.
Mat 24:47 VerilyG281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 ThatG3754 he shall make him rulerG2525 G846 overG1909 allG3956 hisG848 goods.G5224 Esword lists rulerG2525 G846 as ruler NO IT DOES NOT G2525 – καθίστημι - kathistēmi - From G2596 and G2476; to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, conduct, make, ordain, set. G846 - αὐτός – autos - the reflexive pronoun self,
Act 6:3 Wherefore,G3767 brethren,G80 look ye outG1980 amongG1537 youG5216 sevenG2033 menG435 of honest report,G3140 fullG4134 of the HolyG40 GhostG4151 andG2532 wisdom,G4678 whomG3739 we may appointG2525 overG1909 thisG5026 business.G5532 Esword lists appointG2525 . Hmm? not consistent? Very Consistent G2525 – καθίστημι - kathistēmi - From G2596 and G2476; to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, conduct, make, ordain, set.
LXX lists Gen 42: 6 as Icoafjtp 8s Tjv o dp%cov xrjq yr\q omoq S7rcbA,si 7iavx( And Joseph was the ruler of the land;
Gen 42:6 Ιωσηφ δὲ ἦν ἄρχων τῆς γῆς, οὗτος ἐπώλει παντὶ τῷ λαῷ τῆς γῆς· ἐλθόντες δὲ οἱ ἀδελφοὶ Ιωσηφ προσεκύνησαν αὐτῷ ἐπὶ πρόσωπον ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν. NO G2525 – καθίστημι - kathistēmi in this sentence anywhere The Greek says – Joseph was governor - G758 - ἄρχων
I know we have been through this all before, but I cannot understand how the LXX also uses this word as Jeff Benner does, meaning "ruler", and this is cross referenced to the NT Not even the same word – G2525 – καθίστημι - kathistēmi – means to appoint, to establish, to set, to ordain G758 - ἄρχων - means ruler, authority, and governor
Ac 7:10 ... and <kai> he made <kathistemi> him <autos> governor <hegeomai> over <epi> Egypt
SO we have perhaps the idea that Joeseph was "Established as a ruler" Gen 42:6 says – Joseph – was – governor If you make it say anything else you are just making it up
This idea can be written with other contexts Ac 7:27 ... Who <tis> made <kathistemi> thee <se> a ruler <archon> Ac 7:27 Who established you as a ruler? κατέστησεν ἄρχοντα G2525 καθίστημι + G758 ἄρχων
Ac 7:27 Who established you as a ruler? can also be written as Ac 7:27 Who ruled you as a ruler? Stop playing word games within translation – you cannot translate You talk about what you do not know or understand
The question remains, when Adam sinned, how can the future children in Adam be established as sinners, before such humans choose to sin themselves? You said it yourself – even without you god of evil – man would sin anyway Adam and Eve are just the proof – just the representative examples of all mankind
And in Jesus, how does a sinner be established as straight? First belief – then acceptance – followed by repentance = salvation from the Second Death – Death of Spirit
In other words, sin-offering rules over us, and thus as sinners we are established as sinners before we even sin. WOW – you feel Good God of Love and Tov only sure is not fair
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D" Only you and your SDA teach that the serpent lied Backwards and opposed to the totality of Jewish teaching
R" so the Gnostic gospel version says the serpent never lied, The serpent did not lie in the garden (Gen 3)
nor has ever sinned, The sinning angels of Jude and Peter are the bane Elohim of Gen 6 – the Watchers of Enoch – the Archon of the Gnostic – they are banished from earth and lock away in chains awaiting Rev 9
but does the bad job God requires of him, even as a good angel obeying the Lord? Hebrew satan – is an angel of the Lord in the position of the heavenly prosecutor and has nothing to do with the agl/NT Beast of Revelation
In ancient Chinese pictograph why is the Devil written as 1) garden 2) moving in the garden 3) to him and her 4) secretly 5) among the two important trees 6) under cover
Gen 3:1 But the serpent was shrewder than any animal of the field that Adonai Elohim made.
The Chinese word "mo" means "tempter" and does not depict a good angel doing a bad job. It does not depict anything other than a ‘tempter’ – stop reading you own doctrine into the evidence
But rather a sneaky angel deceiving Eve under the cover of trees, with subtle words of deception. YES But rather a sneaky (messenger) deceiving Eve under the cover of trees, with subtle words of deception.
But you ignore this pre-Roman account of the temptor How do I deny that the serpent was a deceiver in the garden?
Noah became the father of the Chinese, and there is your pre-Roman proof, long before Jews even existed. Absolutely no one denies the Beast of Revelation – alive and well and in creation since Gen 1:2
If you theory is correct why was this angel doing things in secret, under cover and coming to him and her? Why not just talk to Adam first? Because – it is a deception Gen 3:1 But the serpent was shrewder than any animal of the field that Adonai Elohim made.
On the balance of probabilities, your theory is wrong, Who cares about your odds of correctness – scripture says and I believe scripture
and the serpent sinned to make Eve also sin. Where is your proof – the serpent agrees with John 3:16 – why don’t you and the SDA?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2022 15:25:39 GMT -5
Greetings
OK, alright
what about the serpent words
Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
What is this a reference to and what does it mean? Jeff Benner does not comment on this? So what do you say this refers to?
And would you agree such a statement negates God's statement:
Ge 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Discuss these two verses Dave
In my understanding Ge 2:17 for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die (God) Ge 3:4 for in the day that thou eatest thereof, Ye shall not surely die: (serpent)
The serpent is making a false report, this is defined as lying, hence the serpent sinned, in order to get Eve to sin.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 3, 2022 3:46:53 GMT -5
In my understanding Ge 2:17 for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die (God) Ge 3:4 for in the day that thou eatest thereof, Ye shall not surely die: (serpent)
what about the serpent words And would you agree such a statement negates God's statement: YES Robert – the serpent negated God’s statement
Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: What is this a reference to and what does it mean? Jeff Benner does not comment on this? So what do you say this refers to?
Gen 2:17 (WLC) וּמֵעֵ֗ץ הַדַּ֙עַת֙ טֹ֣וב וָרָ֔ע לֹ֥א תֹאכַ֖ל מִמֶּ֑נּוּ כִּ֗י בְּיֹ֛ום אֲכָלְךָ֥ מִמֶּ֖נּוּ מֹ֥ות תָּמֽוּת Gen 2:17 (HOT) ומעץ הדעת טוב ורע לא תאכל ממנו כי ביום אכלך ממנו מות תמות׃
Gen 3:4 (WLC) וַיֹּ֥אמֶר הַנָּחָ֖שׁ אֶל־הָֽאִשָּׁ֑ה לֹֽא־מֹ֖ות תְּמֻתֽוּן Gen 3:4 (HOT) ויאמר הנחשׁ אל האשׁה לא מות תמתון׃
Point #1 each sentence has the following words
מֹ֥ות - H4191 A primitive root; to die – qal + infinitive absolute The infinitive absolute is an extremely flexible non-finite verbal form The Infinitive Absolute is described as being in the absolute state because it stands on its own as an independent grammatical entity. ... Grammatically, the Infinitive Absolute is considered a non-finite verbal form
qal + infinitive absolute = being in the a non-finite + absolute state
תָּמֽוּת - H4191 A primitive root; to die – qal + imperfect The imperfect conjugation for Qal verbs, then, is a set of inflected forms (of the Qal stem) that represents future action performed by the subject of the verb.
qal + imperfect = represents future action
Ge 2:17 for in the day that thou eatest thereof = death now (absolute but not finite) + death in the future (God) Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not: death now (absolute but not finite) + death in the future (serpent)
Gen 2:17 (LXX) ἀπὸ δὲ τοῦ ξύλου τοῦ γινώσκειν καλὸν καὶ πονηρόν, οὐ φάγεσθε ἀπ᾿ αὐτοῦ· ᾗ δ᾿ ἂν ἡμέρᾳ φάγητε ἀπ᾿ αὐτοῦ, θανάτῳ ἀποθανεῖσθε.
Gen 3:4 (LXX) καὶ εἶπεν ὁ ὄφις τῇ γυναικί Οὐ θανάτῳ ἀποθανεῖσθε·
θανάτῳ = G2288 - death = NOUN = Dative case = to, in, at, with ἀποθανεῖσθε = G599 - to die off (literally or figuratively): - be dead, - VERB - Tense: Future, Voice: Middle, Mood: Indicative
The Greek says – if you do this – with your death you will certainly die in the future The Greek says – if you do this – in your death you will certainly die in the future The Greek serpent says - Οὐ θανάτῳ ἀποθανεῖσθε· = NOT with/in your death you will certainly die in the future
Point #1 each sentence has TWO deaths – one now that is absolute but not finite + a definite death in the future
Point #1 each sentence has TWO deaths – one now + a definite death in the future
What is the death now = mortal death – death of biology Why - Rom 6:23 For sin’s payment is death, …
What is the future death – the Second Death = death of spirit Rev 20:14 Then death and Sheol were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire.
Ge 2:17 for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die (God) Death of biology + death of spirit in the Lake of Fire
Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not … (serpent) Death of biology + death of spirit in the Lake of Fire
Of these two statement who is not telling the truth? Rom 6:23 For sin’s payment is death, but God’s gracious gift is eternal life in Messiah Yeshua our Lord.
The serpent is making a false report, this is defined as lying Of these two statement who is correct precept upon precept, line upon line? Personally – I agree with the serpent – and believe - God’s gracious gift is eternal life in Messiah Yeshua our Lord.
If the serpent didn’t lie – did God? NO – because at the time of Gen 2:17 the promise of salvation had not yet been revealed to man
Point #2 syntax Gen 3:4 (WLC) וַיֹּ֥אמֶר הַנָּחָ֖שׁ אֶל־הָֽאִשָּׁ֑ה לֹֽא־מֹ֖ות תְּמֻתֽוּן Gen 3:4 (HOT) ויאמר הנחשׁ אל האשׁה לא מות תמתון׃
(WLC) says - Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, - death now – (not future death) (HOT) says - Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, - not (death now – future death)
The serpent is making a false report, this is defined as lying, hence the serpent sinned, in order to get Eve to sin. Rom 6:23 For sin’s payment is death, but God’s gracious gift is eternal life in Messiah Yeshua our Lord.
The serpent is making a false report, The promise of salvation from the Lake of Fire and to eternal life – is not a false report this is defined as lying The promise of salvation from the Lake of Fire and to eternal life – is not a lie
hence the serpent sinned How is telling the truth a sin?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 14:56:15 GMT -5
D"The promise of salvation from the Lake of Fire and to eternal life – is not a false report
R" Wait a minute, how did the serpent know anything of salvation, if salvation had never occurred before?
You are at best speculating that kindness and grace for a being found missing relationship with God, is already written in some laws somewhere?
What may have been written long before sin, is the penalty for mischief:
Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
But there is no provision for salvation in this passage, none written anywhere. So my speculation is the serpent knew nothing of salvation at all.
All he knew is when He sinned, nothing bad happened to Him. And the Ezekiel 28 account tells us the chief cherub sinned. He got to remain living, on earth. No dying death happened to him. Hence in his mind, God must be withholding back some truth??
Second if man is the first being to have spirits like the serpent but enter biology, how can the serpent know anything of this arrangement?
Third is the this is the first being of free will, how can the serpent make any statements that is truly known, after all he is just a robotic being?
Your theory has so many holes in it.
Happy Shabbath
PS hope this internet connection works.
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Post by Dave on Feb 5, 2022 5:59:45 GMT -5
D"The promise of salvation from the Lake of Fire and to eternal life – is not a false report R" Wait a minute, how did the serpent know anything of salvation, if salvation had never occurred before? Please prove what the serpent knew or didn’t know – where are your facts – all you have is attitude
Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, But there is no provision for salvation in this passage, none written anywhere. You take the verse out of context –
Second if man is the first being to have spirits like the serpent but enter biology, how can the serpent know anything of this arrangement? Please prove what the serpent knew or didn’t know – where are your facts – all you have is attitude
Third is the this is the first being of free will, how can the serpent make any statements that is truly known, after all he is just a robotic being?
Gen 3:1 But the serpent was shrewder than any animal of the field that Adonai Elohim made. Please prove what the serpent knew or didn’t know – where are your facts – all you have is attitude
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2022 15:19:29 GMT -5
D" Please prove what the serpent knew or didn’t know – where are your facts – all you have is attitude
R" So your entire religion is based on no Biblical data, where is your proof the serpent did know?
If the serpent knew everything about God, including the mystery of sin and the recovery from sin, that would make this being equal to God, in intelligence. Except it cannot create.
Pr 15:3 ¶ The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.
Can a sinning being know all things about sinning, even God's kindness to save those who sin?
Ro 16:25 ¶ Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Obviously the serpent did not know!
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
How much is known of our Father? Very little
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Not known to Adam, therefore not known to the serpent either...
Salvation as a mystery unfolded to humans gradually....
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Again a mystery hid in God, not made known since time began
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
A mystery...hid from generations, ie all other created beings, before humans existed.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
This suggests even those who sin do not know what sin is, or sin's affects, or even the fruits or even the consequences of their sins... So I understand that the sinning angel, serpent, devil, opposer, knew nothing of his sinning, his directions from sinning, etc, only that GOD did not like the sinning he was choosing to do.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory
Why this word controversy is a Greek word,,,(used only once, here)
Re 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Even at the end, the sinning agents know nothing much, its a mystery
We have a modern day Joel 2 prophet (EGW) who writes of Jesus and the Father having a meeting to discuss the sin of Adam, and what to do... this mystery is hid in God, and not known before to any created being.
To claim that creatures know everything of God is really a blasphemy.
Who can lay claim to know all about GOD? Nobody can.
The sinning angel only copy and spoil the works of GOD and how the RA from sin is shown and displayed for all other unfallen beings to see.
Lu 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father:
Now the sinning angels know of the Father, but they cannot know all the things of sinning, nor all the things of forgiveness of sinning. Such a attitude of sinning comes from the Father's heart, and is not something known or to be trifled with.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father:
Only God knows all the secret dealings of God...
Job 11:7 ¶ Canst thou by searching find out God?
Answer: NO, that applies to all created beings.
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
If Satan knew all things of the Most High, why than does the sinning angel want to be like the Most High, if this attitude is already achieved? Your logic once again is flawed Dave.
Prove to me that your serpent creature is as intelligent as God and knew all about sinning and the rescue plan for sinning, even before humans existed.
But you claim your serpent never sinned, so is as sinless as the angels. So are you telling me all the angels know everything about God, including the salvation rescue for sinning, a concept they have never heard of before? And since these angels have no free will, why would they want to know? Should I tell my dog all about quantum physics and creation theory? My dog would have such intelligence as me, after all it is a creature of the same intelligence as me? Hardly. Come on Dave, must your logic clutch at straws all the time?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 7, 2022 2:29:50 GMT -5
R" So your entire religion is based on no Biblical data, where is your proof the serpent did know? 1- Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 2- precept upon precept, line upon line – the serpent was proven correct
If the serpent knew everything about God, including the mystery of sin and the recovery from sin, that would make this being equal to God, in intelligence. Except it cannot create.
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Man know the difference between tov and ra and the promise of John 3:16 According to you – man is equal to God, in intelligence. Except it cannot create
Pr 15:3 ¶ The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good. What happened to your Umbra Shadow ?
Ro 16:25 ¶ Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Obviously the serpent did not know! Scripture is written for man to man – you just anthropomorphize the heavens
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Not known to Adam, therefore not known to the serpent either... You are incorrect – the Promise of the word that made you will come again in the flesh ad shed blood for the salvation of all Adams children 100% Jewish literature before Jesus Christ
Salvation as a mystery unfolded to humans gradually.... It was spelled out to the letter in Jewish literature before Jesus Christ
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Again a mystery hid in God, not made known since time began Scripture is written for man to man – you just anthropomorphize the heavens
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
This suggests even those who sin do not know what sin is, or sin's affects, or even the fruits or even the consequences of their sins... So I understand that the sinning angel, serpent, devil, opposer, knew nothing of his sinning, his directions from sinning, etc, Agreed – it was not a Free Will choice for the Beast – ignorance of the truth = darkness
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory
Why this word controversy is a Greek word,,,(used only once, here)
G3672 - ὁμολογουμένως – LOOK AT THE SPELLING Adverb of present passive participle of G3670; confessedly: - without controversy. IT IS A - Adverb of present passive participle of G3670
G3670 - ὁμολογέω - homologeō - From a compound of the base of G3674 and G3056; to assent, that is, covenant, acknowledge: - con- (pro-) fess, confession is made, give thanks, promise. Total KJV occurrences: 24
Why this word controversy is a Greek word,,,(used only once, here) Used at least 25 times – want the verses
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: … There is NO LACK OF KNOWLEDGE of Jesus Christ as the Jewish Messiah
1Ti 3:16 … God was manifest in the flesh, You absolutely deny this scripture – how can God be a man? And God at the same time? It is a huge stumbling block for you – John 1:1 must be error according to you
We have a modern day Joel 2 prophet (EGW) who writes of Jesus and the Father having a meeting to discuss the sin of Adam, and what to do... this mystery is hid in God, and not known before to any created being. YES – 100% Mormon – Jehovah didn’t know what to do – so he called a council with the twin brothers Jesus and satan
To claim that creatures know everything of God is really a blasphemy. Who made this claim? – only you make this claim so you can argue against your only version of reality
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
If Satan knew all things of the Most High, why than does the sinning angel want to be like the Most High, if this attitude is already achieved? Your logic once again is flawed Dave. Isaiah 14 is 100% all about a man – the King Nebuchadnezzar
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Mathew henry Commentary 1. The prodigious height of wealth and power at which this monarch and monarchy arrived. Babylon was a golden city, Isa_14:4 (it is a Chaldee word in the original, which intimates that she used to call herself so)
John Wesley Commentary - Isaiah 14:12 Fallen - From the height of thy glory. Lucifer - Which properly is a bright star, that ushers in the morning; but is here metaphorically taken for the mighty king of Babylon. Son - The title of son is given in scripture not only to a person or thing begotten or produced by another, but also to any thing which is related, to it, in which sense we read of the son of a night, Jon 4:10, a son of perdition, Joh 17:12, and, which is more agreeable, to the present case, the sons of Arcturus, Job 38:32.
Adam Clark Commentary - Isaiah 14:12 O Lucifer, son of the morning - The Versions in general agree in this translation, and render הילל heilel as signifying Lucifer, Φωσφωρος, the morning star, whether Jupiter or Venus; as these are both bringers of the morning light, or morning stars, annually in their turn. And although the context speaks explicitly concerning Nebuchadnezzar, yet this has been, I know not why, applied to the chief of the fallen angels,
But you claim your serpent never sinned, so is as sinless as the angels. Why do you keep repeating misinformation – when you know it is a lie Jude and 2 Peter both speak about the bane elohiym of gen 6 that are held in chaind awaiting Rev 9 to be released upon the planet again for 5 months
So are you telling me all the angels know everything about God Please quote me – instead of making up outrageous miss-statements that you know are lies
including the salvation rescue for sinning,
Repeat - 1- Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 2- precept upon precept, line upon line – the serpent was proven correct
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Post by Dave on Feb 7, 2022 3:34:37 GMT -5
Repeat - 1- Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 2- precept upon precept, line upon line – the serpent was proven correct Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Long before the earth even took shape – the promise of the LIGHT that saves 1- Creation 2- choshek 3- the LightIt only took 3 verses to spell out God’s plan – God’s Will The very first 3 verses of the Torah spell out the entire GospelRev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Long before the earth even took shape – the promise of the man childThe very first 3 verses of the Hebrew Torah spell out the entire GospelIt took 5 verses by Gnostic John in The Apocryphon of John – known to Christians as the Book of RevelationSo are you telling me all the angels know everything about God including the salvation rescue for sinning,YES – before the foundations of the earth was even laid downYes – Noah was the savior – long before Abram Yes – Abraham was savior – long before Cyrus Yes – Cyrus was a savior – long before Jesus Christ Yes - Christ = the Light of the World – the saving Light - the man child that will rule The Jews always knew of the promised Messiah – that was never a mysterythe mystery was in the whoNot as the conquering King of the Second Coming – but the suffering servant of IsaiahBut rather God's Plan - God's WillJesus Christ was the end of the Age of the Jews – but they misunderstood the ending The ending of the Age of the Jew was necessary to open the Age of the Gentile This had to happen to open the Age of the Gentile – thank you Lord Pre-Christian Judaism ended – the temple comes down – sacrifices stop – but the Jews remain But rather God's Plan - God's WillThe Jews must remain – be the remnant 1- so that Judah and the Northern Kingdom (Israel) can be reunited – remarried 2- so that the Jews can be recalled to their homeland from all the nation of the world 3- to re-establish the nation of Israel 4- so that the rest of Jewish (and therefore Christian) prophesy can take place 5- Ezk 38 war – is a nuclear war and it is not the last war 6- for 7 months after the war – you are not to touch any bone – you are just to flag it and wait for HAZAT Eze 39:5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. Eze 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD. Remember the FIRE / womanZec 5:6 I asked, “What is it?” He replied, “This is the measuring basket that goes out.” He continued, “This is their eye in all the land.” Zec 5:7 Then behold, a lead cover was lifted and a woman (FIRE) was sitting in the middle of the measuring basket. Zec 5:8 The angel exclaimed, ‘This is Wickedness!’ Then he shoved her back inside the measuring basket, throwing the lead weight over its mouth. Zec 5:9 After this I lifted up my eyes and behold, I saw two women (FIRES) emerging with the wind in their wings (they had wings like the wings of a stork) and they raised the measuring basket between the earth and the heaven. Zec 5:10 I asked the angel who was speaking with me, “Where are they taking the measuring basket?” Zec 5:11 He said, “To build a temple for her in the land of Shinar. When it is prepared, she will live there in her own place.” Eze 39:11 “On that day, I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel, the valley of the travelers east of the sea. It will block those who travel through, since they will bury Gog and all his multitude there. Then they will call it the valley of Hamon-Gog. Eze 39:12 The house of Israel will bury them for seven months, in order to cleanse the land. Eze 39:13 All the people of the land will bury them. It will be memorable for them, a day when I am glorified.” It is a declaration of Adonai. Eze 39:14 “Men will be continually set apart to travel through the land and bury the travelers remaining on the face of the land, in order to cleanse it. At the end of seven months, they will make their search. Eze 39:15 When they travel through the land, if any sees a man’s bone, he will set up a sign by it, until the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamon-gog. Eze 39:16 Hamonah will also be the name of the city. So they will cleanse the land. 5- Ezk 38 war – is a nuclear war and it is not the last war 6- for 7 months after the war – you are not to touch any bone – you are just to flag it and wait for HAZATOver and over – as we study this – it is always the Chaldeans at the heart of the raHab 1:5 Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you. Hab 1:6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs. Hab 1:6 (TLV) For I am about to raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter, impetuous nation, marching all over the land, to seize dwellings not its own. Who are the Chaldeans of the ahl/OT– Sumar/Assyria/ Babylon/ Meeds Who are the Chaldeans of the agl/NT – Babylon / the Seleucids – Chaldean generals of Alexander Who are the Chaldeans of TODAY - Shite Islam – Allah – Iran – Chaldea
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Post by Dave on Feb 7, 2022 4:23:14 GMT -5
Remember the FIRE / woman
Zec 5:7 Then behold, a lead cover was lifted and a woman (FIRE) was sitting in the middle of the measuring basket.
Another textual difference between the Masonic Text and the Roman Received text
(WLC) = H800 אֶשָּׁה n-f. fire. - [feminine of H784] H784 – אֵשׁ - 'êsh - A primitive word; fire
(WLC) - fire
(HOT+) = H802 - נָשִׁים אִשָּׁה - The first form is the feminine of H376 or H582; the second form is an irregular plural; a woman H376 – אִישׁ -Contracted for H582 (or perhaps rather from an unused root meaning to be extant); a man as an individual or a male person; H582 – אֱנוֹשׁ - From H605; properly a mortal
(HOT+) = man (feminine) = woman
Zec 5:9 After this I lifted up my eyes and behold, I saw two women (FIRES) emerging with the wind in their wings (they had wings like the wings of a stork) and they raised the measuring basket between the earth and the heaven.
(HOT+) = H802 - נָשִׁים אִשָּׁה – woman נשׁים (H802) יוצאות (H3318)
Zac 5:9 (HOT+) ואשׂ עיני וארא והנה שׁתים נשׁים (H802) יוצאות (H3318) …
(WLC) = I cannot translate Hebrew – the word FIRE or WOMAN is not there If it is – show it to me
Zac 5:9 (WLC) וָאֶשָּׂ֨א עֵינַ֜י וָאֵ֗רֶא וְהִנֵּה֩ שְׁתַּ֨יִם נָשִׁ֤ים (H5386) יֹֽוצְאֹות֙ (H3318) וְר֣וּחַ בְּכַנְפֵיהֶ֔ם וְלָהֵ֥נָּה כְנָפַ֖יִם כְּכַנְפֵ֣י הַחֲסִידָ֑ה וַתִּשֶּׂ֙אנָה֙ אֶת־הָ֣אֵיפָ֔ה בֵּ֥ין הָאָ֖רֶץ וּבֵ֥ין הַשָּׁמָֽיִם
נשׁים (H802) –vrs- נָשִׁ֤ים (H5386)
What is different = spelling
H5386 – נְשִׁי - From H5383; a debt: - debt.
What is there = H3318 יָצָא yatsa' (yaw-tsaw') v. 1. to go out. 2. (causatively) to bring out.
Verb - qal – Participle – feminine – plural = more than one female doing the verb
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