Post by Dave on May 19, 2012 18:23:07 GMT -5
Ali,
I love you man - I want to give your questions here my best response possible! Make me think and consider. However, this is about our 100th conversation to date and I want to PAUSE momentarily for a clarification of terms.
I am not afraid to admit my ignorance to you. I have relied on armchair - or shade tree - knowledge of the Quran and/or Islam. I have read 10-15% of my Koran over the last 10 yrs, primarily looking for Christ.
I just want to be talking apples for apples.
First, Muhammad wrote the Koran and it was a miracle because Muhammad was illiterate
but then Muhammad himself spoke against miracles and said he could not and did not do any miracles,??
OR - the Koran was put together later by a Caliph who simply organized notes left by Muhammad. Amazingly, this belief defies common sense because, first, a man who cannot write cannot leave notes and, second, the size of the Koran would have required to write a huge amount of notes. It is only common sense that an illiterate person who cannot read or write cannot leave any notes much less enough notes to write a book six hundred pages long.
Mohammad dictated it to a scribe - possibly a Jewish Rabbi slave?
Q comes to mind - You asked me once - why didn't Jesus just write his own book (wasn't he able - you asked). So, why didn't Mohammad just write his own book? From our conversations I already think I know you will say He did so my Q becomes: What are your feelings concerning the multiple theories that suggest Qs about the Quran's actual origin?
There are Five Articles of Muslim Faith:
Oral declaration of faith ("There is no God but Allah");
Observance of duty to pray (at five fixed times a day with a ritual form):
To many of us in the west this 5 times a day thing smacks of religions law. We also think there is another requirement to face mecca. As a psychology student I fully see the addictive power of prayer. Group prayer can also be a powerful tool of indoctrination - adding requirement to recite and memorize verse after verse is also of an indoctrinating- nature. Also, this has to be an impossible requirement to meet. In the middle of a 3 alarm fire or pardon me I am having a heart attack right now - some where there must be a certain allowance for I have the flue. So - soon there must be rules about what is or what isn't permissible - bang = the Koran does seem to read as a Law book.
For me - the Gospel (the message not the book) - is as simple as - verbal confession of faith - private application of faith - Christ was the Gospel and the message is - Love one another as I have loved you and seek ye first the Kingdom of God.
The gospel also tells me that if I ask - if I knock - it will be given. Not law, but simple obvious revelation has to be the sincerity of the Q. On my knees (not a requirement) with a "Broken and contrite heart" Psalms 51 in prayer I will receive and answer. If I am 100% honest with my maker then I have to be 100% honest with myself. Maybe that's revelation enough? I pray as I drive, I have excellent prayers under a stack of warm and toasty blankets in the cold winter night - any time - since I started this post.
Payment of alms (2.5% of a person's yearly savings); Cool a christian church wants 10% off the top!
Fasting during the month of Ramadan - but only in the daylight?
Again as someone raised within western Christendom culture – this requirement seems like a religious thing to do – a law. Here in the west we hear stories about people in Mexico crawling miles on their knees to kiss the feet of some saint’s statue – or how people have themselves tied to a cross to celibrate Easter – and to us – all of it looks like pagan ritual.
Pilgrimage to Mecca – is this actually a mandate – or just recommended. Either way another “thing to do”
There are 3 major types of Islam
The Sunni are 90% of all Islam. They base their beliefs on the Quran and the writings of 4 of Mohammad’s uncles (The beginning of the hadith, with more writing to be added over the years) Telaban, Osama bin Laden, and Al Quada are all Sunni. Government structures usually militaristic.
The Shite base their beliefs on the Quran and only the writing of the 4th uncle. Minority group – often persecuted by the Sunni
Most of us here in the west do not know what the Quran says, let alone the additional writings of his uncles; and therefore don’t understand the difference.
You must be Shite, but you say you use Quran only (is this another movement within Islam, just you, or?)
The third major group of Islam is “The Nation of Islam.” This group is a loosely held “faction” that exist throughout the world. Like America, UK, and Philippines. In this group there is the American Black Panther movement. Islamic extremist made famous in America by Malcolm X. and then strengthened by famous blacks converting to Islam. Cassius Clay becomes Mohammad Ali. The Black Panthers were investigated for several assignation style murders. I personally believe them responsible for the assignation of Martin Luther King.
If you came to Detroit Michigan and went to the very large Mosque there, you would see the majority of the members Black and armed with automatic weapons (allowed by local authorities because it is only for self-defense)
On the global scene,
There are 2 very different struggles going on between East and West, Arab and Jew. NEITHER having anything to do with your or my – or any of us – relationships with our creator
The first story is nothing more than an argument over real-estate. Abram came from UR. He was an Iraqi. God takes him over the land of Canaan and stands him on the MOUNT and gives him all the land he can see. Ever since this ancient event – the story has always been the same – Abraham goes away then comes back. Israel escapes Egypt and comes back. Israel comes back from Babylon. Israel comes back from Rome. Israel comes back from Europe.
The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild), a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland.
“His Majesty's government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object …”
The 1927 Treaty of Jeddah, signed on May 20, 1927, between King Abdul Aziz and the United Kingdom, empowers the Saudi Royal family
The second story is how the world elite used the writings of Sayyid Qutb, an Egyptian author, educator, Islamist theorist, poet, and the leading member of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood in the 1950s and '60s. Author of 24 books, including novels, literary arts’ critique and works on education, he is best known in the Muslim world for his work on what he believed to be the social and political role of Islam, particularly in his books Social Justice and Ma'alim fi-l-Tariq (Milestones). His magnum opus, Fi Zilal al-Qur'an (In the shade of the Qur'an), is a 30-volume commentary on the Qur'an.
Even though most of his observations and criticism were leveled at the Muslim world, Qutb is also known for his intense disapproval of the society and culture of the United States IT IS THESE WRITINGS that set the stage for the social stage today.
A part of this world elite manipulation uses these social differences as a disguise for BLACK OPTS against humanity. The CIA / Elite recruits Osama bin Laden, Saddam Husain, and the Mossad and then plays them all against each other. A BLACK OPTS program directed, empowered, then guided by unseen negative forces. (You know who I mean)
I love you man - I want to give your questions here my best response possible! Make me think and consider. However, this is about our 100th conversation to date and I want to PAUSE momentarily for a clarification of terms.
I am not afraid to admit my ignorance to you. I have relied on armchair - or shade tree - knowledge of the Quran and/or Islam. I have read 10-15% of my Koran over the last 10 yrs, primarily looking for Christ.
I just want to be talking apples for apples.
First, Muhammad wrote the Koran and it was a miracle because Muhammad was illiterate
but then Muhammad himself spoke against miracles and said he could not and did not do any miracles,??
OR - the Koran was put together later by a Caliph who simply organized notes left by Muhammad. Amazingly, this belief defies common sense because, first, a man who cannot write cannot leave notes and, second, the size of the Koran would have required to write a huge amount of notes. It is only common sense that an illiterate person who cannot read or write cannot leave any notes much less enough notes to write a book six hundred pages long.
Mohammad dictated it to a scribe - possibly a Jewish Rabbi slave?
Q comes to mind - You asked me once - why didn't Jesus just write his own book (wasn't he able - you asked). So, why didn't Mohammad just write his own book? From our conversations I already think I know you will say He did so my Q becomes: What are your feelings concerning the multiple theories that suggest Qs about the Quran's actual origin?
There are Five Articles of Muslim Faith:
Oral declaration of faith ("There is no God but Allah");
Observance of duty to pray (at five fixed times a day with a ritual form):
To many of us in the west this 5 times a day thing smacks of religions law. We also think there is another requirement to face mecca. As a psychology student I fully see the addictive power of prayer. Group prayer can also be a powerful tool of indoctrination - adding requirement to recite and memorize verse after verse is also of an indoctrinating- nature. Also, this has to be an impossible requirement to meet. In the middle of a 3 alarm fire or pardon me I am having a heart attack right now - some where there must be a certain allowance for I have the flue. So - soon there must be rules about what is or what isn't permissible - bang = the Koran does seem to read as a Law book.
For me - the Gospel (the message not the book) - is as simple as - verbal confession of faith - private application of faith - Christ was the Gospel and the message is - Love one another as I have loved you and seek ye first the Kingdom of God.
The gospel also tells me that if I ask - if I knock - it will be given. Not law, but simple obvious revelation has to be the sincerity of the Q. On my knees (not a requirement) with a "Broken and contrite heart" Psalms 51 in prayer I will receive and answer. If I am 100% honest with my maker then I have to be 100% honest with myself. Maybe that's revelation enough? I pray as I drive, I have excellent prayers under a stack of warm and toasty blankets in the cold winter night - any time - since I started this post.
Payment of alms (2.5% of a person's yearly savings); Cool a christian church wants 10% off the top!
Fasting during the month of Ramadan - but only in the daylight?
Again as someone raised within western Christendom culture – this requirement seems like a religious thing to do – a law. Here in the west we hear stories about people in Mexico crawling miles on their knees to kiss the feet of some saint’s statue – or how people have themselves tied to a cross to celibrate Easter – and to us – all of it looks like pagan ritual.
Pilgrimage to Mecca – is this actually a mandate – or just recommended. Either way another “thing to do”
There are 3 major types of Islam
The Sunni are 90% of all Islam. They base their beliefs on the Quran and the writings of 4 of Mohammad’s uncles (The beginning of the hadith, with more writing to be added over the years) Telaban, Osama bin Laden, and Al Quada are all Sunni. Government structures usually militaristic.
The Shite base their beliefs on the Quran and only the writing of the 4th uncle. Minority group – often persecuted by the Sunni
Most of us here in the west do not know what the Quran says, let alone the additional writings of his uncles; and therefore don’t understand the difference.
You must be Shite, but you say you use Quran only (is this another movement within Islam, just you, or?)
The third major group of Islam is “The Nation of Islam.” This group is a loosely held “faction” that exist throughout the world. Like America, UK, and Philippines. In this group there is the American Black Panther movement. Islamic extremist made famous in America by Malcolm X. and then strengthened by famous blacks converting to Islam. Cassius Clay becomes Mohammad Ali. The Black Panthers were investigated for several assignation style murders. I personally believe them responsible for the assignation of Martin Luther King.
If you came to Detroit Michigan and went to the very large Mosque there, you would see the majority of the members Black and armed with automatic weapons (allowed by local authorities because it is only for self-defense)
On the global scene,
There are 2 very different struggles going on between East and West, Arab and Jew. NEITHER having anything to do with your or my – or any of us – relationships with our creator
The first story is nothing more than an argument over real-estate. Abram came from UR. He was an Iraqi. God takes him over the land of Canaan and stands him on the MOUNT and gives him all the land he can see. Ever since this ancient event – the story has always been the same – Abraham goes away then comes back. Israel escapes Egypt and comes back. Israel comes back from Babylon. Israel comes back from Rome. Israel comes back from Europe.
The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild), a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland.
“His Majesty's government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object …”
The 1927 Treaty of Jeddah, signed on May 20, 1927, between King Abdul Aziz and the United Kingdom, empowers the Saudi Royal family
The second story is how the world elite used the writings of Sayyid Qutb, an Egyptian author, educator, Islamist theorist, poet, and the leading member of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood in the 1950s and '60s. Author of 24 books, including novels, literary arts’ critique and works on education, he is best known in the Muslim world for his work on what he believed to be the social and political role of Islam, particularly in his books Social Justice and Ma'alim fi-l-Tariq (Milestones). His magnum opus, Fi Zilal al-Qur'an (In the shade of the Qur'an), is a 30-volume commentary on the Qur'an.
Even though most of his observations and criticism were leveled at the Muslim world, Qutb is also known for his intense disapproval of the society and culture of the United States IT IS THESE WRITINGS that set the stage for the social stage today.
A part of this world elite manipulation uses these social differences as a disguise for BLACK OPTS against humanity. The CIA / Elite recruits Osama bin Laden, Saddam Husain, and the Mossad and then plays them all against each other. A BLACK OPTS program directed, empowered, then guided by unseen negative forces. (You know who I mean)