|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 15, 2019 1:01:26 GMT -5
All educated Christians agree - Jesus was born in the spring
I'll say March / April
How many ignorant Christians celebrate the birth of Tammuz on Dec 25th?
How many ignorant Christians put decorated tress in their houses? Jer 10:1-10
Why does the church even call the resurrection day Easter?
How many ignorant Christians celebrate Ishtar with Ishtar eggs and ham?
Everyone an abomination to the lord in the ahl
Does your church do these things?
Or does Paul’s New Covenant say its OK
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Oct 15, 2019 8:51:03 GMT -5
You already know my answer. We do not do Christmas in our home. We do not do trees and traditional decorations, but we do have a Christmas service at church. In that service, we make it clear that we are not celebrating His birth, but His life. Ester Sunday and Christmas are the two biggest opportunities we have to witness. These two days are our biggest attendance numbers and our doors are open. We cannot minister to them, if we don't get them in the door. Our fellowship has never done Easter eggs and we recognize the day with fasting. Years ago, we considered the Passion as a Good Friday service, but it did fly well.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 15, 2019 9:46:37 GMT -5
Good Friday - another Christian Myth - thanks for bringing it up Christians can't even do math - Friday night to Sunday morning is NOT 3 Days and Nights Churches that don't celibate ChristmasJehovah's Witnesses - (not really a Christian group if you ask me) Seventh-day Adventists - the Millerites and the year of the great disappointment 1854 United Church of God, an International Association - broke away from their parent group (United Church of God) because of Christmas in 1995 Westboro Baptist Church - Why is this not surprising? A church with only 40 members is known throughout the world I am not a Baptist and I though many of their protest were - disrespectful But, I sure respect them for causing people to stop in their tracks and consider religion / God The Stats - www.theodysseyonline.com/christians-groups-that-dont-celebrate-christmasSo according to numerous online sources, the Jehovah's Witnesses have about 8 million followers around the world, the Seventh Day Adventists have about 19 million followers around the world, and while I haven't been able to find any status for the United Church of God, they do have 409 congregations worldwide. So that's approximately 27 million Christians who don't celebrate Christmas, not counting the non-denominationals. This is out of about 2 billion Christians worldwide.
While 27 million (remember minus the UCG and non-denominationals) out of 2 billion Christians doesn't seem like a lot, especially in terms of percentage (about 1.4%), it's still a noticeable amount.1.4% of Christians do not celibate Christmas - even see it as anti-Christian (pagan) |
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 15, 2019 10:11:40 GMT -5
The Norse pagan customs of Christmas
The Nordic peoples of Scandinavia and the Germanic tribes in northern Europe celebrated the winter solstice through the Yule festival, which was held for centuries before the arrival of Christianity in the region. Similarly to the Roman Saturnalia, Yule grew over time, from a period of three days to a holiday of twelve days. The festival celebrated the return of the sun and the lengthening of daylight in the days following the solstice, and the god Odin was worshiped, with animal sacrifices and other religious rituals. Religious ceremonies were a central part of the Yule festival, as was feasting, drinking of ale and mead, and singing.
One ceremony which celebrated the return of the sun was the creation of a sunwheel, made by intertwining branches of evergreens, and decorated with runes depicting the Norse gods. The sunwheel resembled the modern wreaths which are used to decorate homes and businesses during the Christmas season. The celebration of Yule was associated with the consumption of ale, and the feasts which were held featured boar and goat which were slaughtered sacrificially prior to being cooked and eaten by the celebrants. Toasts were offered and drunk ceremonially, in a specific order to the gods, with the first offered to Odin, followed by toasts to lesser gods, the king, and to those who had died during the preceding year.
In a different conversation Rob shared a video about Kabbalah
The presenter on that video says, - mistakenly says, whenever a kabbalahist preaches Jesus Christ, he is actually preaching satan, just changing the name.
When Christian ministers stand up front and Preach Christmas - they are actually preaching Odin.
I say they are preaching Tammuz - both are 'other gods' worshiped as the Creator or Christ.
This is why I am not Protestant or Catholic - I am gnostic because the true knowledge of things like Christmas, Lent, Ash Wednesday, and Easter - keep me away from Roman Christendom
Question - can a Christian increase their walk with God by practicing pagan rituals?
Do Christians keep the holidays commanded by God - or have the Law of Moses been replaced by corporate paganism?
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Oct 15, 2019 13:28:04 GMT -5
Question - can a Christian increase their walk with God by practicing pagan rituals?
Yes and No.
If you are just a simple Christian praising your Savior, there is no incorrect way. If you come to a Christmas service with Christ in your heart and on your lips, then you are blessed. If you only come one day a year for a free Christmas meal, I will be there to witness. If you know better and are not led to correction, then you choose pagan tradition and ritual over guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Our fellowship discusses this almost every year. We have a Christmas service and a pot luck meal. We feed 25 - 30 new souls each Christmas. Many people we never saw before or again heard our Prayer and our invocation. If we publicly held an anti-Christmas message we think it would be seen as an anti-Christian message. That is a line we cannot cross. To counter this, Christmas and Easter services comes in three parts. The birth of the Lamb because the perfect sacrificial lamb was a yearling, which makes His sacrifice perfect, and then we end with the Resurrection and invocation. The birth without the resurrection, or resurrection without the birth, doesn't stress the importance of them as a whole.
In your opinion, has Westboro Baptist Church been a benefiting the faith, or not?
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 15, 2019 14:14:39 GMT -5
Is ignorance safe?
The sacrificial animal to Tammuz was the pig -
why, because he was killed by a wild bore
The ahl forbids pigs in all forms
If pig sacrifice in the Temple to Tammuz is an Abomination to the Lord - Ezk 8
Then I see the Abomination Desolation being a Christian Easter Service, held in the Temple, in the name of global unity, and televised across the globe. Could the participants of such Abominations be safe in ignorance?
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 15, 2019 14:18:45 GMT -5
Skip to 0:52 www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQZDdHIOSmw&feature=player_embeddedEaster Eggs: History, Apr 2, 2012, www.huffpost. For Christians, the Easter egg is symbolic of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Painting Easter eggs is an especially beloved tradition in the Orthodox and Eastern Catholic churches where the eggs are dyed red to represent the blood of Jesus Christ that was shed on the cross. Statement - 'Christmas doesn't mean something pagan to me.' Response - 'Doesn't matter what it means to you - it only matter what it means to God' |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 4:28:54 GMT -5
Interesting discussion gentlemen. Dave asked me to join a different topic.
Question - can a Christian increase their walk with God by practicing pagan rituals?
Do Christians keep the holidays commanded by God - or have the Law of Moses been replaced by corporate paganism?
Interesting questions for any church group. Walter Veith says the torah feasts were abolished by Jesus on the cross. I disagree with him on this. I like what Jeff Benner says, the feasts are practice runs of a future event.
Christmas and Easter are pagan feasts, and one should respect the unbeliever and their respect. And try to guide them, as Richard says...it's a good time to witness to them.
Most churches do not understand that the Passover Feast, now termed the Lord's Ordinance is in fact a feast, under a new name. It's still the hopping over feast, and it also points forward in time, the Wedding Feast in heaven. It also points back to the older Passover Feast, when Jesus died to free us from sin's penalty.
As Jeff Benner points out all the believers in Acts kept all the Feasts. Some say being Jewish Christians they found it difficult to allow old traditions to die, perhaps. I think they were following the torah of Jesus, as they were supposed to be, as wine in new wine skins. Jesus wanted salvation after the cross, in a new wine setting. The same old salvation system, with different settings, not abolition.
The hardest feast for me is keeping the unleaven feast. The principle is learning to do with less, thinking of Jesus more. Fasting and prayer is also in this feast. I practice the feast every Monday. The fast lasts 40 hours, the prayer is about trying to control self, talking less and listening more. The heart of the feast is about living without any sinning in your life. Quite a challenge, fighting the good fight of faith.
Shalom
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 16, 2019 7:09:53 GMT -5
Agreed – the Law is not abolished – is has been preached fully This is how I see the Feast  Thank you – the two biggest event in Christianity have nothing to do with Christ Again I will ask you ROB – If the Law is in place and Christmas and Easter are pagan – what does this say about modern Christianity? – It has caused me to toss it in the trash and look at scripture again anew without the bias of Roman intervention. Jesus was 100% Jewish, The Disciples were 100% Jewish, the entire faith is built upon the Jewish ahl. So why does Christendom look so different than Judaism? And now you know why Christian cannot witness to a Jew the Je’s Torah tells them specifically do not adopt the pagan rituals of your neighbors! Because they all celebrate it on the first Sun day after the Spring Equinox, when Ishtar returned to earth. Not at Passover, which is sometimes 45 days different on the Roman Calandar |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 4:40:31 GMT -5
Your right brother. Us Christians often make poor witnesses especially to Jews.
Shalom
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Oct 17, 2019 9:51:49 GMT -5
Why is this Rob? Why isn't the Christian message inviting today? Why don't evangelist connect with people? Most evangelist do not preach the world as it is, but as they wish it to be. People can relate to one but, not the other. One seems truthful and one sound wishful. youtu.be/0meqcKTAcMUyoutu.be/MMHiRmaOwTwyoutu.be/xx8ku3Oty24 |
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 17, 2019 15:16:43 GMT -5
Yes!
This is the end result of Feel Good Christianity
Why doesn't God care? Why doesn't God stop the pain?
Is He even there? Or He is there, but is an uncaring or ineffective god
Every single person we try to witness to already has a resentment to 2000 years of Christendom's myth and Crimes.
Trying to reach them through all that PR damage is very difficult indeed
That is why I come from a different perspective.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 18:01:28 GMT -5
Richard you ask the billion dollar question Quote: "Why is this Rob? Why isn't the Christian message inviting today? Why don't evangelist connect with people? Most evangelist do not preach the world as it is, but as they wish it to be. People can relate to one but, not the other. One seems truthful and one sound wishful. And Dave, you raise a different perspective? Quote: Every single person we try to witness to already has a resentment to 2000 years of Christendom's myth and Crimes. Trying to reach them through all that PR damage is very difficult indeed That is why I come from a different perspective. As for our website Richard and Dave. It looks at only Sola Scriptoria in the Ancient Hebrew pictograph form, the original meanings of words. I don't have a denomination that follows this material as precisely as Scripture shows me, but some churches are closer than others. 1) We wanted you both to explore what I see as the truer meaning of faith, and how this affects our relationship to Jesus, but it seems something you can't figure this out, to comment about "faith"? 2) We also present the Steps of Jesus, the Science of Salvation, how to be saved. But when I present this to Christian forums, they mock and say, what is this? Is there a process to being saved? yes, there is... 3) We also present sin as missing and introduce a Hebrew term also translated as sin in the NT confusing billions. What's the difference between chata and chattaah? I find most Christian churches do not read Scripture in English, few see the OT as part of the NT, and hardly any read Scripture in Hebrew. No churches that I know of, see the NT should be read in Hebrew as the OT was. Does this increase learning? Most of us remain as babes, drinking milk and saved as babies? Is this God's ideal? How many churches talk about self? Is this a term in Scripture? Is self sinful? What is surrender? what does surrender mean? What is salvation anyhow? Why did Jesus have to die? What attracted me to Dave, is because, he at least, he tried to answer this billion dollar question. Have a read of our 16 page presentation, written for outsiders unfamiliar with Scripture, or Hebrew, only as the KJV reads... for street laypeople... Tell me, does this answer all the basic questions in simple terms... I have found no other website coming close to answering all these questions. Notice all the answers comes from English via a KJV translation, which while poor at times, is still a good Bible to use for street laypeople. Remember these 16 pages are written for laypeople on the street.. (I would appreciate your candid comments) spiritualsprings.org/ss-1220.htm Shalom |
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Oct 19, 2019 8:48:32 GMT -5
2) We also present the Steps of Jesus, the Science of Salvation, how to be saved. But when I present this to Christian forums, they mock and say, what is this? Is there a process to being saved? yes, there is...
The process is accepting Jesus Christ as savior. End of story. No additional requirements except to confess with your month. After the fact, you can strengthen your walk with the Lord, by knowing His word and walking in His ways. This is faith. Anything else piled on top is just religion. Religion is not required.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 16:38:57 GMT -5
Your reply is good at first reading Richard.
This is the second time I have to rewrite this. The Devil made my bungle fail, and I lost all the writing to you...stupid computer connections...
Last night I had a dream, I don't normally remember dreams, but this one was vivid, so here it is:
I was doing a re-fresher course as an mature age student among younger students in a maths class. The maths teacher looked bored and was starting the lesson using a video presentation. As I watched I saw what the video was about, but the teacher didn't see the significance of the presentation.
I put up my hand, no response. So I shouted to get attention. "This video sir is about assumptions in maths". Maths is assumed in a maths world to be absolutely precise, but in a real world, maths is not so precise, because maths is based on assumptions. We are taught in class to ignore the assumptions, so after a while we just all conform to general confusion, and so the information is never precisely told to us.
I told the teacher to write on the board 11 divided by 2. "What's the answer I said to this maths problem"? A student said "5.5"
"That is only correct," I said "if we assume to agree to all the assumptions. The number 2 is assumed to be 2 precisely, but it may not be 2.0 precisely, hence the best answer is 5 only".
Yesterday I said to them, "I was told by the weather man, that we would get 2.24 mm of rain over our house by 11pm that night and that the chance of this happening was 80%". If you look at all the information, the rain expected has 3 numbers (2.24) the time has 2 numbers (11 pm) and the chance of this happening has only 1 number (80%), therefore the most precise answer possible from all this is we have a 80% chance of receiving at least 2mm rain by 10pm tonight. This reduces all the answers to the lowest most accurate numbers in the maths we have, the other precise numbers become meaningless.
The reason the other numbers are meaningless is because a law of maths called limiting factors says, precision is only as precise according to the least precise number you have. We call this in maths the numbers of significance. So there is no point learning more in one area (of your life) while other areas have not been learned so well.
So in our maths classes we have learned to forget about precision and assumptions, so we just get used to rambling along with general confusion. One student finally spoke and said
"I wish maths wrote always the truth".
Wow I said, you said something profound. Such a thing is not possible in a real world, because everything has assumptions, and nothing is truly certain.
The Lord impressed me with this dream, the moral, that He deals with us in the light of the experience we have now, never in absolute truth, so salvation is a journey of experiencing GOD more and more.
So salvation than must be about the absolute beginning, when we know so little about it then in time? Yes. (scholars call this justification, as we assume it to be true?) When your hand connects to Jesus hand, you become straight. Regardless of your sins past, future and current. Yes but I break my hand from his hand, when I sin, sin is defined as missing Jesus hand. (scholars term this as sanctification, and we assume this also to be true? We, the cattle, are caught in a maths world of assumptions, the traditions and precepts of men)
So if you walk in the salvation journey experience as a wife does in a marriage, the up and downs, does not end the marriage, so the Scriptures speak of a sin-offering NOT unto death. (1 John 5:17)
Can I get a divorce from Jesus?(Jer 3:8) yes you can.
So than how do I maintain my marriage to Jesus, technically my betrothal to Jesus, we get formally married in heaven around the great wedding table in the future when He comes to collect me at the second coming (Luke 22:18, Rev 19:9), in sight of all the heavenly host.
Richard quote:"The process is accepting Jesus Christ as savior. End of story.
Arrh yes. But how do we do this process of accepting Jesus?
How is our betrothal to Jesus maintained?
Where in Scripture listed in the chronological orders of steps in this betrothal process of salvation, are all things you do daily, in order to be saved by Jesus? Surely there is even an entire book in the Bible about this theme of salvation to Jesus? yes there is an entire book on marriage as a salvation theme.
I asked Jesus once when I was 16 years old to show me this passage, yet my own pastors from my own church are not even interested I this wonderful gem in Scripture. How sad, nobody cares to know...?
Sure Jesus can save us as babes plucked as firebrands from the fire, as babes, but surely we should also learn to grow up in Jesus, eating stronger meat, as Paul say we should do. Most of us, like me, just keep on drinking a milky version of this process.
Shalom
|
|
