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Post by Dave on Nov 18, 2019 5:46:46 GMT -5
See – I don’t think this difficult at all
In the Trinity – God the father is a singularity that cannot be located – is is all 10Ds rolled into one immeasurable point
There is no way 3D man can experience this – when Enoch went into heaven he say heaven 1, 1, 3 etc till 7 – then he saw heavens 8, 9, 10 simultaneously to be in the presence of God – 3D
Great Gnostic point – Christ is 3D for 3D corporeal reality – which is our reality Our reality is not the sum total of the ALL – that is all the realities in all the dimensions Our reality is only 3/10 of the whole – Christ is 3D God incarnate for 3D man
Who knows what happens in other dimensions – I do not – but I am not going to absolutely say – God can’t do this – or this or that is impossible
Man is a fish trapped with a tiny little fish bowl – any comments that fish makes about the flying as eagles overhead is simply speculation
I am a Trinity believer – 3=1 / 1=3 I offered you a large passage from the author of the 5 agl text – you dismiss is because you cannot find it in your dictionary
Examine your talk with me here – for two months two Christians have been discussing Christianity – and it is all about your catholic satan being a creator god
That is not the point of Gnostic Christianity – the point is the archon are real and in your face Their mission is to keep us from salvation – keep us from awakening to as larger reality Jesus proved to us that a larger reality is real – FACT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 0:44:44 GMT -5
Dave " In the Trinity – God the father is a singularity that cannot be located – is all 10Ds rolled into one immeasurable point...There is no way 3D man can experience this " It says GOD is light, or is a simile of light. Once you move GOD to unnatural dimensions beyond our known dimensions, than one could pass off any Scripture couldn't we? I stick to Scripture and Science known natural objects, one's Science can test easily in the now... 10 dimensions is not testable in current science, and at best is a theory anyhow. I use the verses with words "god" "light" "shadows" "choshek" and "Ra". The Bible tells us to use natural objects to relate to the great divine, who is invisible. Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:Your welcome to science theories outside of testable science, but I prefer to restrict my answers of GOD, to that which science can test. When it says "GOD is light", I can understand and test that easily. Dave: "I am a Trinity believer – 3=1 / 1=3 I offered you a large passage from the author of the 5 agl text – you dismiss is because you cannot find it in your dictionary"Had to smile here , " Rob cannot find it in my dictionary" sorry Dave, but I follow sola scriptoria. Love the wit now and then. The fact is there is no Scripture text of the Holy Spirit creating anything on its own. By science definition this is impossible too. A medium does not create or speak on its own, a medium (eg satanic mediums) always conduit some other Being's power. So for example, as a Satanic medium, the person talks about a dead person via the fallen angel who speaks on behalf of the dead person. I know you don't believe in fallen angels like I do, but I am illustrating that spiritual mediums do not create their own power, they conduit somebody else's power. Natural mediums also do not create either, ie a magnifying glass. Now we could talk about the Shadday, the duality other function of the Holy Spirit. The Shadday is the Holy Spirit in a personal form, as the Mother of heaven, so to speak. Could the Shadday create on its own? This is possible IMO. Just like Jesus has divinity and the Father has divinity. So the Shadday has divinity too. But if you look at verses with members of elohiym, they function as a single divine community. Ge 17:1 Both the Shadday and Jesus-YHWH appear to Abram as one Being. Does the Shadday function as a Holy Spirit creating a Medium for Jesus via the Father's powers, is not told. It is mere speculation on my part to say anything. Do I go looking for other sources to help me understand more, like you do? Is it necessary to know the answer to all things we question? Many things are best left as mysteries, IMO. Nu 24:16 Here the Shadday makes visions manifest to humans. No mention of any other divine power. No mention of the Holy Spirit function. Could this be an example of the Shadday making something happen to humans, using its own divine power? I am not sure. I throw this to you, because I am being fair in my studies with you. Job 5:17 Some scholars use poetry parallel to equate the Father with the Shadday (Mother). I don't see this. I see divine Parents here, doing simile functions. Ps 91:1 This verse proves beyond doubt, the Father and Shadday are NOT the same Being. They are divine parents. How can I say this so clearly? Because of the word " shadow " To make a shadow from light (Father), you require a second Being (Mother) to block the light. You cannot make a shadow on your own. Impossible. According to maths and science, things the Father placed on this universe, it is impossible for the Father of lights to make a shadow by Himself. Now if you change the maths and science, in another world, maybe in a different dimension as you say, well maybe...but current science cannot answer these questions right now... Dave: " Examine your talk with me here – for two months two Christians have been discussing Christianity – and it is all about your catholic satan being a creator godI hope your not getting tired of me? If you want to follow theology not based on the Hebrew OT and NT, that's your decision. I have learnt making things from you. It has not been a waste of time for me. Dave: " and it is all about your catholic satan being a creator godI am not aware Satan can create anything. Satan can't create Ra. Einstein says Ra is a term GOD uses to describe Beings in relationship who walk away from GOD. This walking they do creates darkness. Satan is not a creator god either. Satan can change things GOD created, like tamper with DNA genes, remove DNA code, causing plants to become weeds. Satan might also tamper with animals making some like dinosaurs. But Satan is not creator. Satan can engineer, like humans can engineer. Humans cannot create either. For one thing, you taught me, showed me, that GOD created choshek and layil, these things are from RA, so something about our universe was intentionally created with tov and ra in mind, before Adam sinned, from the first day of Creation. Where we differ is when I studied choshek, its not the opposite of light, its a relationship term for Beings who have sinned. You need to consider this. ISA 47 says I form light, I create "choshek" H2822. What is the opposite of light? "chashak" H2821 is, meaning according to Jeff Benner, "Dark". These words are related in Hebrew, but have different meanings. Dave: " the point is the archon are real and in your face Their mission is to keep us from salvation " I see. I would love to talk to you about salvation. This is far more important than knowing tov and ra, but how do we move from tov and ra, towards all tov. How is this possible? What does salvation mean? and how does it work? Actually SpiritualSprings.org is almost entirely devoted to this theme. BUT back to your theory? One question? If I am born with tov and ra naturally? Than what did I inherit from Adam's sin? I am confused? In my theory, I see two problems... 1) From Adam's first sin, I now have natural inherited RA, in my genes, what Paul calls "carnal flesh" 2) From Satan's continual sinning, I have this ruler over my soul, rather and GOD ruling over my soul. It's a war of rulers. In your theory, there is only one problem, to deal with. 1) I am born with "yester tov and yester ra", the archons only trip me up to continue with more ra, but GOD wants me to do more tov" There is a major shift in this theology. It's more about me, and nothing about Satan tripping me up. Always GOD rules over my soul, even from birth. So why do I have to have more and more 'yester tov' in my life? I don't get the reason to do less sinning. If fact with your theory, I don't see sinning at all. Does your theory have an answer to what is self? Is this not ra? In Hebrew, self is called Baal master power of self. Baal as a verb means the way you do as you please. Baal as a noun refers to the idols of self you worship, the ego, the Id, the "I" in me. In a world of all tov, Baal would not exist, neither would self. All things come empowered via us via GOD. That's how love works. It's relational. Many are confused by this verse...Jews often write short cuts...not quote the full text. " Love your neighbour like yourself" Is this Hebrew? no Jeff Benner explains a word in Hebrew is poorly translated. Le 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.It actually reads: "... love thy neighbour LIKE the LORD (loves you)".The Hebrew word means "like" to compare one being to another. This means "Self love" is ra, and in a world of all tov, self love does not exist. Thus all loving in a world of pure tov, is purely relational. What that means is salvation is when your hand is yoked to Jesus' hand continually. How this works day by day, is another discussion... All the tov you do comes via Jesus power flowing through you...its relational love in action. If its not like this, it means nothing to GOD. Paul calls this " works of the law", doing baal powers of self to follow the torah using human powers only. Shalom my friend
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Post by Dave on Nov 19, 2019 5:52:34 GMT -5
My God created heaven and earth in Gen 1:1 Light was not until Gen1:3 Darkness was first – light was the savior (Wiki) sola scriptura, - rejects any original infallible authority other than the Bible. ( Wiki) Bible - is a collection of sacred texts or scriptures. Varying parts of the Bible are considered to be a product of divine inspiration - Those books included in the Bible by a tradition or group are called canonical, indicating that the tradition/group views the collection as the true representation of God's word and will. A number of Biblical canons have evolved, with overlapping and diverging contents from denomination to denomination. (Wiki) Biblical canon - These canons have developed through debate and agreement on the part of the religious authorities - Some books, such as the Jewish-Christian gospels, have been excluded from various canons altogether, but many disputed books—considered non-canonical or even apocryphal by some—are considered to be biblical apocrypha or deuterocanonical or fully canonical by others. Differences exist between the Jewish Tanakh and Christian biblical canons, although the Jewish Tanakh did form the basis for the Christian Old Testament, (Wiki) - Textus Receptus is an edition of the Greek texts of the New Testament established by Erasmus in the 16th century. - Erasmus had been working for years on two projects: a collation of Greek texts and a fresh Latin New Testament. In 1512, (Where is your Hebrew?) (Wiki) Old Testament - Hebrew texts commenced to be translated into Greek in Alexandria by Ptolemy Philadelphus – were called the Septuagint - It varies in many places from the Masoretic Text and includes numerous books no longer considered canonical in some traditions: 1 and 2 Esdras, Judith, Tobit, 3 and 4 Maccabees, the Book of Wisdom, Sirach, and Baruch So – you admit it – you follow on a Roman doctrine – selected by Rome – edited by Rome – and approved by Rome – based upon Greek not Hebrew I embrace Judaism in its entirety – God selected Israel, Jesus was a Jew, Jesus was God incarnate – therefore God is a Jew – Jesus made it clear – He did not come to change one yod of the Jewish Law Your satan – since the Book of Job was written – God was the creator of everything everywhere and satan was a serving angel. For 1500 years of Judaism no one ever saw it any differently. As Jesus walked this earth, no one saw it differently. Then 3-5 hundred years after Christ – Rome changed that doctrine to empower their master – the deceiver In your walk – pernant to you – it is all about you – and me – it is a personal souljourn for each of us. Soul is from God – Soul knows God – Soul is always yearning to be reacquainted with God – yester tov? – but Mind-Body is an animal and has carnal desired (as a by-product, as a consequence, inherent) yester ra. Jews say – God is with us in the womb – god is with us after birth – until our Mind-Body starts to express carnal desire (yester ra) then God withdrawals from us – but dep down inside – our soul remembers It is Jewish Kabbalah – because our Souls mission here is to remember and reconnect with God spiritually – then to remind others Souls to do the same – this is Godly Love / spiritual love – has nothing to do with be nice, be kind, or even like your neighbor He wants your Soul to remember and reconnect It is not you I am manic depressive – sometimes I am on fire and cannot shut up and I feel confident and empowered Sometimes – I wrestle with my own demons (archon) that pull me away – wear me down, make me tired. I once saw my diagnosis as a curse and argued with God about it for most of my life – If he loved me like the Feel Good Christians preach – why do I have to be defective? At times – I felt cursed by God – I tried Romans 8:28 really hard – yet, I remain manic Now I use the expression – The Cyclic Nature of Revelation – you can never understand any issue fully – until you look at it from a different perspective. Is this a young maiden or an old hag? I use this image in my Book Now consider satan In the beginning – Book of Job – God gives satan a mission, gives satan permission, and set limits for satan . No one ever saw this any differently until Rome says Ezk28 and Isa 14 – suddenly everyone sees it
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 12:52:56 GMT -5
Wow, you have presented some things I can't answer and have me baffled.
Dave: "Differences exist between the Jewish Tanakh and Christian biblical canons,
Will get back to you on this... this is important to me...
"Many modern Karaite Jews have emerged from the Karaite revival of the late 20th century; the World Karaite Movement was founded by Nehemia Gordon"
I note Karaite Jews do not follow tulmud, but only torah. But than Nehemia Gordon is a Jew I have emailed, and disagree with?
Dave: "I embrace Judaism in its entirety – God selected Israel, Jesus was a Jew, Jesus was God incarnate – therefore God is a Jew – Jesus made it clear – He did not come to change one yod of the Jewish Law
Correct. Where is a good source of the Jewish tanak online, so I can study it please? Needs to include interlinear with English, can't read Hebrew, sorry.
What Jewish websites do you consider also follow the NT as well as the OT, and hold the teachings of Jesus, the Jew?
Dave: "In the beginning – Book of Job – God gives satan a mission, gives satan permission, and set limits for satan . No one ever saw this any differently until Rome says Ezk28 and Isa 14 – suddenly everyone sees it
I see. I will get back to you on this.
I will have to do some research, and take some time away from you, to study these matters. You raise questions I can't answer right now.
Rob: " Where does dark come from? It doesn't... sure its made manifest by the light, but dark is not made on its own, dark is the absence of light.
Dave: "This Catholic doctrine is Not consistent with Gen1:1-3"
Rob: "Please explain.
Rob study on choshek: Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
WOW this verse explains clearly where choshek comes from, from Satan.
Dave: "Don’t think so – it says: to turn them from darkness to light – AND- from the power of Satan unto God. It does not say satan created the darkness
Darkness – Gen 1:2 – Light = Gen1:3 – are you saying your satan god existed before Christ?
Rob: Please explain. No I am not saying Satan existed before Jesus. Your changing the theme. I am trying to show you choshek is a relationship term. Choshek is not the opposite of light.
"chashak" H2821 is the opposite of light. Yes this Choshek Relationship problem was first. Than light came later for our creation.
I have condensed all threads here to a single post. Help you out.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Nov 19, 2019 18:52:56 GMT -5
Christianity has its own Talmud / hadith / broader canon – it is called Commentary, First by the Roman Bishops and then by Protestant reformers. The Torah and Tanak has had its own commentary called the Kabbalah (Solomon, Enoch,MidRash) The Coptics – stopped it all at the end of the first century – they have two cannons – those that made it into the ahl and agl – and those considered by rejected by Rome – this is where the Book of Jubilees is found for the Jews and Christian. I am moved by the correlation between the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi, the birth of Israel, our atomic age, and demographic winter I see my creator in science – real science – intelligent design – incremental creation, my flood theory I see the hand of my creator in world history and current events As a Gnostic I have a very broad canon indeed – all creation Baal – is/was Baal are real entity? I saw yes a pseudo-god archon desiring worship Baal is ahl – therefore relevant – wouldn’t information from Baal side also support the ahl account? Every Christian teacher will tell you – Zoroasterism is a pagan religion – do not read it – do not know it Yet use three Zoroasteian Magi in the nativity to validate the birth of Christ How can something completely invalid and taboo validate? I – 1st Thess 5:21 it – and pray for guiadance - I don't take you word for ir - or Pastor Bill's - I listen -consider- test - and pray I don’t have one, because I am not a Hebrew expert – I am a Strong’s lexicon player (very superficial) But I would try - : Jewish Publication Society Inc. JPS Hebrew-English TANAKH, Pocket Edition (black), by Jewish Publication Society Inc. | Jul 17, 2003, paperback = $17.50USD www.amazon.com/s?i=stripbooks&rh=p_27%3AJewish+Publication+Society++Inc.&s=relevancerank&text=Jewish+Publication+Society++Inc.&ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. choshek is a by-product – a consequence of creationAnd the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. I know Christians love to say God = light Light is not created until day 3 as a correction to the choshek Choshek first then the light God is not the light – He is the creator – then choshek happened The God made the light – Christ as the correction to choshek Gen 1:4 can be the Gap – the fall of man (EVE) – the Flood of Noah – the tower of Bable - the Resurrection of Christ and the personal Pentecost of the HS – the rapture – the Great White Throne Judgment If satan is the creator of choshek – then satan had to exist prior to the light of salvation There are many – some very Christian sounding – some so anti-Christian I stop listening or turn away. Surface Judaism is much like surface Christianity – I believe what they tell me. Scholarly Rabbinic academia is more my taste – Hebrew Institute, Jerusalem. Right now – I youtube a lot of Michael Rood – and I may buy his Gospel yet – Rich has one
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 1:30:15 GMT -5
Michael Rood it is, just for you...
Been praying asking God for help on this, one question so far
The theology Jesus presented and the Rabbinic Jews presented are very different, so much so Jesus was killed by the Jews. So what makes you think their theology is correct?
Another related question
Lu 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded "diermeneuo" unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself "heautou".
Jesus, a Jew is translating "diermeneuo" the Hebrew to Hebrew reading persons, in the scriptures with "like" or "comparisions" "heautou". The Greek word heautou" comes from Hebrew word "k@mow" meaning "like".Le 19:15
Sounds to me Jews don't interpret their Hebrew very well, or it's different to how Jesus read the Hebrew.
I have begun a little study so far:
From Jewish website: "Cherubim are the winged creatures mentioned frequently in the Bible (in Hebrew keruvim). The etymology of the word is uncertain.
In the Bible God sets the cherubim at the entrance of the Garden of Eden after the expulsion of Adam and Eve, to guard the way to the Tree of Life (Genesis 3:24). Two cherubim overlaid with gold with outstretched wings were placed facing one another on the cover of the Ark in the Tabernacle (Exodus 25:18-20) and figures of cherubim were embroidered on the veil and the curtains of the Tabernacle (Exodus 26:1, 31). In Solomon’s Temple the two gilded cherubim were not attached to the Ark, as in the Tabernacle, but were placed as figures each 10 cubits high in front of the Ark (I Kings 6:27-8).
The whole matter of the cherubim was a source of puzzlement and embarrassment to the Jewish teachers.
The Jewish philosophers, in particular, tried to rationalize the subject.
In Maimonides’ scheme there are ten grades of angels, and the cherubim belong to the ninth degree
Except in the kabbalah, there is not much interest in the cherubim in Jewish thought. It is perhaps significant in this connection that while the liturgy contains references to other forms of angels, the ophanim and seraphim, for example, there is no reference to the cherubim anywhere in the liturgy.
What are cherubims and Seraphims?
The text describes the "seraphim" as winged celestial beings with a fiery passion for doing God's good work. ... Seraphim appear in the 2nd-century BC Book of Enoch, where they are mentioned, in conjunction with cherubim, as the heavenly creatures standing nearest to the throne of God
Why don't Jews read Hebrew on a topic such as "cherub"?
Why do they consider "malak" as "angel" when it means "messenger"? ie human messengers, Son God messenger, and cherub messenger?
Dave: "Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. choshek is a by-product – a consequence of creation And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Your presenting to me how you read Scripture Hebrew, only by its immediate context. No where else. Is that how Scripture says to read Scripture? no
Sure if I limit "choshek" to just Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:3, choshek is a by product of creation. Is this a good way to read and understand Hebrew words? Just read a single sentence, and make us the meaning from its context? That's what your doing.
1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. (KJV)
Many German SDA people use this verse as an excuse to drink wine every day at meal time. Biblical they say. What are they doing wrong? What your doing. Reading the Greek word in a sentence based entirely on a single context.
Is it OK to drink strong alcoholic wine? Yes if you read a single sentence in Scripture.
De 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Can I explain this sentence away on a single context? no What does "shekar" mean? Something my soul lusteth for...
Ge 30:14 ¶ And Reuben went in the days of wheat harvest, and found mandrakes in the field, and brought them unto his mother Leah. Then Rachel said to Leah, Give me, I pray thee, of thy son's mandrakes.
What about this one? A drug herb, like "our weed today"... right in Scripture and Rachel wants it.
This is NOT how we should read Scripture... but millions of Christian people do...
Scripture says Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Your supposed to line us every line with "choshek" in it, all the verses with "choshek" and study the theme, here and there across all the torah, both NT and OT.
But your not doing it now? You said you look up all the material across many sources and find a common theme among them. Your not doing this now?
There are over 50 references to "choshek", also related words like "abyss" and then we get what "choshek" might mean.
Dave: "If satan is the creator of choshek – then satan had to exist prior to the light of salvation
Satan is no creator, but Satan did exist prior to wisdom called forth, to resolve the issue of "choshek".
Pr 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Who was brought forth? The Holy Spirit, functioning out of the Shadday.
Why does the Shadday have to change functions? Ever considered this?
And this happens near Creation of our world...why?
Pr 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Why is Scripture so hidden, how are we to hear instruction?
Does Scripture tell us how to read Scripture? yes or no Does Scripture tell us which Scripture is all truth? yes or no
I am doing a study to validate why certain books were canonized...
Which books cannot be canonized and are all truth? The torah is.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Which torah? Books of Moses...
So a study of "choshek" is :
Ge 1:2 And the earth <'erets> was <hayah> without form <tohuw>, and void <bohuw>; and darkness <choshek> was upon the face <paniym> of the deep <t@howm>. And the Spirit <ruwach> of God <'elohiym> moved <rachaph> upon <`al> the face <paniym> of the waters <mayim>.
How is choshek related to water? Don't know.
Ge 1:4 And God <'elohiym> saw <ra'ah> <'eth> the light <'owr>, that <kiy> it was good <towb>: and God <'elohiym> divided <badal> <beyn> the light <'owr> from <beyn> the darkness <choshek>.
Light is associated with tov
There is a division with choshek...ie with ra?
Ge 1:5 And God <'elohiym> called <qara'> the light <'owr> Day <yowm>, and the darkness <choshek> he called <qara'> Night <layil>. And the evening <`ereb> and the morning <boqer> were the first <'echad> day <yowm>.
choshek = layil = ra? and light = day = tov
Ge 1:18 And to rule <mashal> over the day <yowm> and over the night <layil>, and to divide <badal> the light <'owr> from the darkness <choshek>: and God <'elohiym> saw <ra'ah> that it was good <towb>.
Notice the word rule over choshek and day. Early on this idea to rule is mentioned.
Ex 10:21 ¶ And the LORD <Y@hovah> said <'amar> unto Moses <Mosheh>, Stretch out <natah> thine hand <yad> toward heaven <shamayim>, that there may be darkness <choshek> over the land <'erets> of Egypt <Mitsrayim>, even darkness <choshek> which may be felt <mashash>. Ex 10:22 And Moses <Mosheh> stretched forth <natah> his hand <yad> toward heaven <shamayim>; and there was a thick <'aphelah> darkness <choshek> in all the land <'erets> of Egypt <Mitsrayim> three <shalowsh> days <yowm>:
Here choshek is something different already to creation choshek. Why three days?
What's GOD trying to say here? God is getting ready to save people, here the light and dark, the tov and ra, the division of time.
Ex 14:20 And it came <bow'> between the camp <machaneh> of the Egyptians <Mitsrayim> and the camp <machaneh> of Israel <Yisra'el>; and it was a cloud <`anan> and darkness <choshek> to them, but it gave light <'owr> by night <layil> to these: so that the one came not near <qarab> the other <zeh> all the night <layil>.
Notice choshek is a relationship concept of tov and ra, of tov people and ra people, one one side of the choshek is ra people and on the other side of choshek is tov people, the cloud of choshek is between.
De 4:11 And ye came near <qarab> and stood <`amad> under the mountain <har>; and the mountain <har> burned <ba`ar> with fire <'esh> unto the midst <leb> of heaven <shamayim>, with darkness <`araphel>, clouds <`anan>, and thick darkness <choshek>.
Again we see a thick choshek, why thick ? Mt Sinai is about division, the dividing of tov and ra, of good people from bad people.
De 5:23 ¶ And it came to pass, when ye heard <shama`> the voice <qowl> out of the midst <tavek> of the darkness <choshek>, (for the mountain <har> did burn <ba`ar> with fire <'esh>,) that ye came near <qarab> unto me, even all the heads <ro'sh> of your tribes <shebet>, and your elders <zaqen>; (KJV)
It's interesting choshek is a place where GOD speaks from, in this occasion.
To answer this question we would study
Ex 10:15 For they covered the face of the whole earth, so that the land was darkened chashak;
Only one verse in torah of Moses.
Now from this simple basic foundation, we would add other testimonies, making sure it adds harmoniously to what Moses as already presented.
Does Moses torah speak about "cherub" ?
Yes 13 verses... so why don't Jews consider "cherub"?
Ex 25:20 wings over mercy seat Nu 7:89 God speaks to Moses between the cherubs
Related to "cherub" is "malak". Jews consider angels as "malak". Is this valid? no If you look up all 39 verses that use "malak" in Moses torah, you don't find a single reference to an "Angel being".
For example:
Ex 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. 22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. 23 For mine Angel shall go before thee,
Which "messenger" forgives sin and has His Father's Name in Him? Must be Jesus, not an angel cherub.
Ge 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil,
Which "messenger" is able to redeem humans from all ra? Only Jesus can, not some angel cherub.
Nu 22:22 ¶ And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.
This is a interesting Moses torah verse. It says a messenger functioned as a satan against a Baalim Prophet. The Baalim Prophet was forced to obey this satan messenger.. the ass also spoke and told Baalim normally a ra Prophet to listen to GOD.
Where is this verse as a simile also presented?
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Here the roles and functions are reversed. The messenger LORD speaks to his opponent satan, and asks a question.
You claim Satan is serving GOD rather than opposing GOD, and does it willingly? Did Baalim serve the satan messenger YHWH willingly, or did he grudgingly
The Moses torah simile helps us to explain the heavenly one in Job.
Baalim the ra Prophet would gladly have cursed GOD, but the satan messenger YHWH came to forced him otherwise. However when Baalim learned it was from YHWH he bowed his face flat to the ground? Why? Does Baalim love GOD? I don't think so. Respect? maybe Fear? yes
Can't GOD smit us easily with death? It's automatic for creatures to fear their Creator, and do are they are told.
You can ignore the Moses torah story here, if you want to, but the Moses torah story here, is the only torah we are to use, is this story also in the Jewish tanak, I presume?
When you reduce our Bible does to just five books of Moses, both Christians and Jews have exactly the same five books of Hebrew. You can work out all the doctrines from just these five books, add the witnesses and testimonies later.
The Book of Enoch was presumably written before Moses, but only Moses torah begins the truth of GOD, according to Isaiah. What does Moses say?
De 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it,
So is Jesus mentioned in Moses torah?
Ex 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. 22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. 23 For mine Angel shall go before thee,
The malak is not an angel... who forgives sin and has the Father's Name in Him?
What about salvation based on "faith" ?
Ex 17:12 But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady "amanuah" until the going down of the sun.
What does "amanuah" mean? To support somebody.
De 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. KJV
De 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is complete: for all his roads judge: a Strong Authority of support and without evil, straight and upright is he.
As GOD supports us, we support God, that's salvation in a nutshell.
As far as I can learn so far Dave, the Moses torah in Hebrew is the same to both Jews and Christians. All doctrines should come from the Moses torah first. Than the other torah in the OT and finally the NT torah.
Holy people saw which books to add to the Moses torah.
But the Moses torah begins first.
Now if you place all those verses about choshek into Genesis, we see the physical story of creation as a smile of the spiritual story about GOD. They tell us pictures of two worlds, the world for man, the world for GOD.
If we restrict our theology to just Moses torah, how simple and easy it becomes.
For example, are there any archons mentioned in Moses torah? yes
Ex 2:14 And he said, Who made thee a prince "sar/archon " and a judge over us? intendest thou to kill me, as thou killedst the Egyptian? And Moses feared, and said, Surely this thing is known.
Ex 18:21 Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:
42 verses
Shalom my friend
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Post by Dave on Nov 20, 2019 7:55:23 GMT -5
Light was not created until day 3 (it was the third step) after choshek (the second step) after Gen 1:1 (the first step) Science says E=mc 2Gen says E=c 2m First here was God - the first dimensional singularity, next expansion – second dimension matrix/ether/medium – 3rd light Talk of a photon – it was generated by an E somewhere – then travels /expands / throughout space until when? – Until it interacts with anything else – then it becomes a 3D particle E=c 2m = God /Spirit / Christ – in that order Which dimension does your God exist? 3D? Allah is 3D only the Koran says so. As soon as you say God is in heaven you are discussing another dimension / realm of existence = completely scriptural Spoken like a 1 dimensional Catholic – Jews have 10 emanations of God – 10 sieferots (sp) – 10 dimensions The expression “I am in 7th heaven” is a Jewish expression. 7th heaven is the highest heaven where God is. These 3D we exist in +7 = 10 heavens /dimensions. Your right – I’ll just stick to scripture and am amazed when science validates it
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead;Michael Rood – is not perfect – has much criticism – indicted for fraud (so was Peter) But he is 100% Messianic Jew I so disagree with this statement (it is Roman anti-Jew propaganda) Mat 5:17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil (πληρόω – G4137). 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. The Gospel says – you don’t need a Pastor, a Minister, a Pharisee, a Sadducee, a religious government – all you need is God and the Pentecost – The Jewish people did not kill Jesus – man-made religious authority did to protect its man-made religious authority. Is Catholicism any different? I don’t understand your point – I have no knowledge that ἑαυτοῦ is of Hebrew origin – I am not a linguist. But I told you before I hate this word - it can mean amlost anything – but never “like” – always a reflexive pronoun – at time as part of a two part condition – (if/then – cause and effect) Luk 24:27 And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted (διερμήνευεν) to them (αὐτοῖς - dat pl in/to) in all the scriptures (γραφαῖς) the things concerning himself. περὶ ἑαυτοῦ (Gen of - 3rd person singular) διερμήνευεν -G1329, to explain thoroughly; Mat 5:17 πληρόω - G4137, From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.αὐτοῖς – them the people to whom he was speaking γραφαῖς – does not mean the Torah, Tanak, or any such thing – it just means the writings / the documents – it is not specific Cool Greek study for you – the phrase “concerning himself” = περὶ ἑαυτοῦ a Greek phrase that has more meaning that the two words separately - here is my bad example peri meter = about a meter / around a meter perimeter = a specific meaning I have a NT Greek lexicon (4 of them maybe – I love to buy old books) - it is very abridged compared to my classical Greek lexicon. NT Greek covers only 75 years of the language, or so. Classical Greek is 500 years in the making. In Classical Greek - περὶ ἑαυτοῦ reflects compassion and/or abundance The compassion of a person, a person and his compassions in full abundance, exceedingly, vehemently Mat 5:17 – Jesus not only came to execute an office and finish a period or task but to “fill, perfectly preach, and supply” Luke 24:27 Jesus explained thoroughly – ORAL not written – to his followers - his abundant compassion - from what was written - and said (oral) Or Jesus spoke Aramaic and the agl was written in ancient Greek Actually – there is a perfect Jewish video here that explains the Jewish view perfectly – it answers all these questions Gnostic Archon = Christian Demons = Jewish Sheidim = Islamic Jinn Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/408/judaism-christianity-satan-rabbi-singer#ixzz65ojSH045You hold your words so close you miss the point – cannot see the forest because to many twigs are in your way – 10 levels of angels – one for each dimension – various duties - my video presents the 10 a little differently and the Zohar is a little different as well 1 Chayot Ha Kodesh[22] See Ezekiel 1 and Ezekiel 10 2 Ophanim See Ezekiel 1 and Ezekiel 10 3 Erelim See Isaiah 33:7 4 Hashmallim See Ezekiel 1:4 5 Seraphim See Isaiah 6 6 Malakim Messengers, angels 7 Elohim "Godly beings" 8 Bene Elohim "Sons of Godly beings" 9 Cherubim See Hagigah 13b 10 Ishim "manlike beings", see Genesis 18:2 Daniel 10:5 Scripture says what it says – is my understand of choshek “Deception is the beginning of forgetfulness Any forgetting that God is the absolute is in error – it is a direction way from 'God is absolute' – it is RA Deception is the idea that it is OK to forget that God is absolute” Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/user/1/recent#ixzz65opcyLok I thought you were a health conscious guy – you think pro-biotics are bad? Mandrake was used as a pain killer - used for surgeries - is your scripture against naturalpathic medicine? You confuse what the Soul desires with what the Min-Body desires. They were taking it to the temple to share with others. Christians do not understand temple sacrifices – all the people were gathered at the temple. hundreds of sacrificed sheep and oxen – it was a pot luck meal – rich feeding the poor – sharing – temple sacrifices was Israeli public welfare – from the Lord Gen 1:2 Malak are messengers from God. are they angelic or archon? Are you sure you know what the Jews believe? So – with your word study you have reduced Christ to an angel and promoted satan to a creator god? Curious. Your conclusions are flawed or your method is flawed. This is a Gnostic question – The Torah is not a Book – just as the Gospel is not a Book Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Abraham knew God’s Torah long before Moses was ever born. It is written on our hearts by the HS – Just as the HS teaches the Gospel
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 12:41:34 GMT -5
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Abraham knew God’s Torah long before Moses was ever born. It is written on our hearts by the HS – Just as the HS teaches the Gospel
This makes is near impossible to know truth doesn't it? Yes it does say Abraham knew torah, which technically doesn't mean the first five books of Moses, but teachings.
I used that narrow definition, because you like Jews. Now you raise this verse.
OK so where are these teachings before Moses wrote them down, and why did GOD write them down anyhow. Do we throw away all the books, and just pray for HS guidance?
Dave: "The Torah is not a Book – just as the Gospel is not a Book
The teachings come from a Teacher GOD, and the Process of Salvation (gospel) also is the main product of those teachings. The teachings are written down because humans forget them. In early days people had better memories. And this is why I suspect the Book of Enoch is wrong...it's written down... People before the flood had perfect longer lasting memories than you and I. Such teachings would simply be remembered, no need to write anything down. After the flood, when more RA flooded our earth, than things began to be written down. But this is my opinion, looking at the logical digression of mankind over time, as more RA flooded over the earth.
Anyhow I will look at your videos as your request, check our Rood, and get back to you.
But since you have now moved the Scriptures from something tangible, to something the HS brings to us, nothing is testable...you have created a religion nobody can challenge.
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Post by Dave on Nov 20, 2019 16:01:54 GMT -5
Our Soul knew God in heaven before our birth - The Torah is taught to our Soul by God in the womb – God shepherds us as infants until, until he can’t stand our carnal selves What is the Gospel to you - John 3:16 + Rom 8:28 + Heb 9:27 + Rev 20? To me it is very simple - Know who Jesus is/was -Seek- and love your fellow Souljourning Souls as God has loved us - help them, to remember Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead – THERE IS NO EXCUSE Abraham’s Soul simply remembered – no one had to spell out the 10 Commandments for him King David did not follow Torah law and was still God’s favorite Do you really think John the Baptist carried a collection of documents with him everywhere he went? Did any of the Disciples carry around books? Did Paul? – No they were just Jews Jews of the Book were called Pharisees YES! – very Gnostic – they forgot what their Souls knew from the womb - it is our mission to remember – to wake up – to awaken that we already know Oldest copy = 350BC Egypt (Coptic broader canon) and 2nd century AD Syria common public version All scripture is written down – so I don’t get your point This is an assumption that I argued against at AHR – is the flood story first written in Gilgamesh? It is an older version of the story – much older than any Hebrew account. I think it wrong to assume nothing was written until our oldest surviving examples. Sumar wrote in stone – Hebrews wrote on sheep skins – one last longer than the other Both are from the same source – one is tested upon the other and the truth of Rom 1:20 One is from the spirit source – one has been written down for forgetful man as a guide to remember and a path to remember P.S. Mandrake – (Wiki) All species of Mandragora contain highly biologically active alkaloids, tropane alkaloids in particular – Were you not just investigating an alkaloid diet – for its health benefits? Gnostic humor – just to lighten the conversationIf Jesus was here, I believe He would laugh at the way man-made religion conducts itself I come from Shipshewana Indiana – lived there until I was in the 3rd grade (1962) – my sister married and Amish man – with 10, million relatives – I have partied Amish and dated Amish and worked alongside the Amish for 18 years building manufactured houses – I think this is funny youtu.be/lOfZLb33uCg
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 1:48:33 GMT -5
OK I listened to some videos of yours:
Judaism and Christianity on Satan: Rabbi Tovia Singer explains why we Differ
Rabbi Singer talks a lot but doesn't present a good case:
1 Video" This idea Satan is a angel who sinned, took another angels with him, because enemy of GOD, etc...same an antichrist... 6:01... source of this idea is Greek, pagan, not from Israel. Source is not in Scripture...abomination to Jewish people..."
How can a verse in Revelation (Rev: 12: 7-8) be Greek and be pagan? He doesn't explain.
Instead of talking about the verse, talk about the verse.... Dave you also never talk about the verses I present, you talk around the theme at hand too.
Here's the verse:
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
At least talk about the verse? Maybe translation poor? But Rabbi Singer doesn't talk about the verse at all.
Talk about these words "war" "heaven" "Dragon" "angels" "Devil" "Satan" ...do these words exist in this passage or not? So talk about them...stop beating around the bush.
2 Video: "satan also verb to impede, angel tried to stop Baalim on donkey...with his project of cursing Israel and so on... 7.01 no angel has free will 7:24 Persian idea All gnostics are pagans 9:10"
Again just talk, no evidence presented... OK the Hebrew word satan means to impede... Why does he say "All gnostics are pagans 9:10" ?
3 Video : "Gnostics believe this world was created by an evil Deity...10:32 Evil was created openly, as it says in Isa 45:7 12:00"
I place these statements together. If the Gnostics believe in an evil Deity, what do Jews believe in? And evil Deity too? He tries to make it different, but its the same.
The SDA religion has an all loving GOD always full of tov. The ra came from Satan, a fallen angel who sinned.
Video 4: "Notion that Satan is an enemy of GOD is completely unknown to the Jewish Scripture...11:46 No angel ever went into rebellion against GOD 11:49
There are so few texts on "angel" what word does Singer use for "angel". He doesn't say. SO few texts on "cherub"...
Video 5: "Evil was created openly, as it says in Isa 45:7 12:00 Context, GOD chose pagan to do things, do not question Me, Why GOD do you do things in that way? Don't question Me, I know what I am doing..."
Such comments make God sound arrogant?
Video 6: "Deut 14,15 God created satan so we can choose good over evil, (13:05) Play game what if... if you find hard stuff in Scripture... what if Satan ever existed? If we are created i image of GOD, we would have nothing pulling us away from GOD, we would have no free will... (13:48) we would be like a dog, always loyal... dogs don't have free will, dogs don't have a satan, doesn't affect them... 14:16 So made in image of god, we have this choice, to do good or evil, and thus satan is only testing our choices...
So according to Singer we need satan to give us choice... really ? so why a Being? why not just allow the DNA with ra in the DNA to impede us with wrong choice. That would be more loving...we just need to overcome our fallen DNA traits to do ra.
Why have a ruler over our soul at all? He suggests if we remove Satan, nobody would ever sin. That's ridiculous. People with ra in their DNA, would choose to become opponents to GOD and hence become satans to GOD. And sin by themselves.
And if you made this hypothesis, dogs don't have free will? How could you test this idea? You would have to define free will in testable terms or a dog. What is instinct? What's the difference to a dog growling and loving? What makes the change? Why does a Panther eat the mother monkey but in kindness nurse the baby monkey left behind?
Video 7: "Job oldest book in Bible...16.01 Older than torah 16:05 Satan presents to GOD, Job has everything... if life wasn't so good, he might rebel... God gives Satan permission to act in a certain way... Satan does exactly what GOD tells him to do... JOb struggled...curse the womb, but never curse God... 17:03 If Satan is an enemy of GOD, why does Satan do as exactly GOD says? 17:58
Rabbi Singer makes a good point here?
Video 8: "Satan is a servant of God not an enemy of GOD 23:04 If there was no Satan, nobody would ever sin...23:14
That is a ridiculous statement. If I have ra in my DNA, I can sin when I want. If I didn't have ra in my DNA, but all tov, I could still choose to sin, but why would I want to?
video 9: " 1Ch 21:1 ¶ And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. 2Sa 24:1 ¶ And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
So Rabbi Singer asks which is it? Satan or GOD, who caused David to sin? This is the best case Singer presents. Easy to answer is Satan and GOD are on the same side. Hard for the Christian view.
Video 10: "Isa 14:4 ¶ That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isa 14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon
Fair point, no mention of "cherub" here, only in context Babylon, which assume to be as high as the Most High.
Video 11: "Friend southern baptist church, ezekiel 28 .... 33:40 Read 27, 26..talking about tyre... was Israel's best friend... they got greedy.. literature is estatic language... GOD... you saw Eden, ie Israel.. you didn't do things right...so your going down
So Singer is suggesting Tyre treated Israel like Eden, got greedy so when down...
OK, but there are some Hebrew words he does not discuss.
"cherub" "sinned" "eden" , these words cannot be associated with king Tyre. No discussion of these Hebrew words.... Are these words here? yes
Demonism - Chuck Missler
Video: "fallen angels can materialize 12:20
How come Missler accepts fallen angels as an idea, but you don't?
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Post by Dave on Nov 21, 2019 11:53:40 GMT -5
OK – I have to say this – DUH! Rabbi Singer is a Jew – why should he include Greek agl? Why would he include any agl? The agl is Greek.
If I come to your SDA service – with the Pastor there quote from my Gnostic text? Why not? He probably didn’t even consider it. Why doesn’t the SDA Pastor discuss the Talmud in church? He probably thinks it pagan
No angel has free will inside of Judaism – evil gods are Canaanite / Greek / Roman/ Persian
Much of what was is called Gnostic is a collection of many pagan ancient non-Judeo—Christian religions – Much of it is pagan – to a Jew Christians are pagan – perhaps you didn’t know this about Judaism?
Over and over again you argue that God is not Omnipotent and your satan is a creator god. You diminish the Creator and elevate the satan
The Jews present what they know – a Christian goes around asking why do God do this or that
Why is the story of Eve in garden important? You can sin whenever you want – satan makes you want Just as satan made Eve want the fruit
Lets see? Missler is Christian with a Christian ministry – using Christian vocabulary – maybe he sounds Christian – just guessing – just like Rabbi Singer is VERY anti-Christian
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Post by Dave on Nov 21, 2019 12:44:59 GMT -5
Rev 12:7 And there was war (πόλεμος) in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon(δράκων); and the dragon (δράκων) fought and his angels, (άγγελος)
Πόλεμος – G4171 - From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); warfare (literally or figuratively; a single encounter or a series): - battle, fight, war
Δράκων - G1404 - Probably from an alternate form of δέρκομαι derkomai (to look); a fabulous kind of serpent (perhaps as supposed to fascinate): - dragon.
άγγελος - G32 - From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger. (In Christendom άγγελος = good guys)
So if you are a one dimensional Christian this verse means 1- there was a long protracted war – like WWII or WWI that lasted a long time – it going on right now in heaven – God is so weak the war has been going on ever since the good angles ‘fell’ long ago – God must be very weak not to be able to win that war in all this time 2- if you are a one dimensional Christian – heave is only one location so this dragon must have been in God’s presence all this time in heaven 3- The dragon must be satan – who had free will – 4- - the Good guy angels went with bad guy satan
If you are a multidimensional Gnostic 1- when it was time (in God’s timing) the Chief Archon and his archon were released from their locality within heaven and send to earth. 2- There was no long drawn out war – God said – and it was done! Boom – one skirmish, one bustle. A singular event 3- the Archon resisted because they are being ejected from heaven to our 3D reality and don’t want to go – but they prevailed not - and evidently the archon number about 1/3 of all the heavenly elohiym beings
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: (the Chief Archon and the archon) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Rev 12:7
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him. Rev 12:10 And I heard a great voice in heaven, saying, Now is come the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, who accuseth them before our God day and night.
It is the story of the GAP The same story that will be recycled – after the gnostic reset
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 13:22:05 GMT -5
OK I get your point, Rabbi Singer doesn't like a Greek NT torah. Fair enough.
He presents only two good points in the Hebrew:
(1) Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? 9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? 10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. 11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. 12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Singer says Satan is doing exactly as GOD says to do, functioning like a servant...and obedient one at that.
(2) 1Ch 21:1 ¶ And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. 2Sa 24:1 ¶ And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
Singer says which it is , satan or GOD, that causes David to sin?
These are two good arguments. I will leave them for now...
Now to a Hebrew point Singer doesn't address, easier for me to state...
You don't need context, unless Singer discusses why King Tyre is a "cherub"...here is the verse...with two words in it...we need to consider...
Eze 28:16 ..and thou hast sinned: ... and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, ...
These words are "chata" and "cherub"...
You have made some comments that "chata" means "choice"...I don't see this at all, the word "chata" means to "miss". If you want to discuss Hebrew, please discuss only the Hebrew. The other word here is "cherub". Singer doesn't discuss this word... does this word have anything to do with King Tyre? He doesn't consider "cherub" because Jews do not consider "cherub" as a word in their Bible?
From what I have read, Jews do not know what "cherub" means? Hence Jews are silent with this word. So how than can he talk of angels? He doesn't even define the word he uses?
I suspect he is talking about "malak". And therein lies the problem. But he doesn't discuss this either. And He talks about terms he doesn't define...
What I want is a Jewish video wanting and willing to discuss this verse and these two Hebrew words in it. How about you discuss these two words? After all Ezekiel was a Jew and he wrote those two words in Eze 28:16, didn't he?
So rather than beat around the bush... I listen to video which doesn't discuss the Hebrew... and I have presented two good points Singer raises, which are excellent, and one point he doesn't raise.
He says we should start with a Jewish Bible. I agree. So let's stick to the Hebrew first.
Is there any Jewish video explaining "cherub" and only following Jewish Bible?
Another problem I have with Singer, is he doesn't present the Hebrew all the time...I have to find it for him...he talks too much...let the Hebrew speak....Hebrew is all I want to hear...God is in the Hebrew...not the commentary... so why on earth did Ezekiel a Jew, write in a story about King Tyre, the word "cherub" and "chata" ? That by the way is the clearest point in favour of Christian view. It's not Christian anyway...its Hebrew view. Obviously not Jewish view, because Jews ignore Hebrew when they wish to. I was gobsmacked when I discovered Jews have no thoughts on cherub. Why is that? I don't know.
Now Jesus a Jew came to convert Jews to his truth, the Hebrew truth as Jesus saw it. The disciples who wrote Jesus words, and Jesus spoken Hebrew, wrote those words in Hebrew, they went to Hebrew assemblies each Hebrew Sabbath. You need to find a Hebrew video who understands Hebrew from the OT and NT on the topic of cherub and Satan. A video from Singer, is not going to do this, because Singer sees the NT torah in Greek.
Do I see the NT torah in Greek? No. It was originally written in Hebrew. Can I prove this? Absolutely.
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
This Hebrew OT torah tells us the latter rain torah goes out in a new tongue for a refreshing to the Gentiles. Paul a learned Jew, uses this verse...in the NT...
SO it would be nice to watch a Jew who understands Jesus as the messiah, and speak about cherub and Satan... using both OT and NT torah.
What your doing is presenting a video from people who are EX-SDA, "nonsda.org" totally devoted to discrediting the messages of Ellen White, and the SDA faith. So a JEW who doesn't see Jesus as the messiah, is not going to present truth is he? Neither will an EX-SDA.
The Jewish people I find are perhaps ignorant, unlike EX-SDA. But you get my point, I hope?
Dave:"If I come to your SDA service – with the Pastor there quote from my Gnostic text? Why not? He probably didn’t even consider it. Why doesn’t the SDA Pastor discuss the Talmud in church? He probably thinks it pagan
Speaking to you privately or publically in a special audience, I would preach along these terms...If in an gnostic audience...yes. Each cultural of people over time gets used to traditions and thus we hear words we know...Sad but this is human.
Dave: "Why is the story of Eve in garden important? You can sin whenever you want – satan makes you want Just as satan made Eve want the fruit
Hang on Dave, by saying this, you're saying Satan sinned. And Satan has free will? And thus Satan cannot be good guy doing bad job...if I cause you to shoot somebody, in court I am just as guilty of sin and the murderer is? correct? Did you just goof??
Think what you said...Satan cannot be good guy doing bad job...because in Job, he kills Job's sons...all of them... Does GOD kill them? no....
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand.
Does GOD tell Satan to kill Job's sons? no. Why doesn't Singer unpack the passage a little more and talk about what we know...?
Currently some are trying to impeach the President... how can they if the President is the overall boss?
Let's ask the What if question game Singer suggest... what if Satan wanted to impeach the Father Most High...?
In the court room, the highest in heaven, who's the judge? The Most High... the attorney is who...not told who... it's a label termed "satan" opponent. Is this court thing real?
Well Jews don't think so ?? ... I always thought attorney does the bad job and attacks the defence. Who's on trial here? The judge... where does Hebrew say this?
Isa 14:4 ¶ That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon,
Babylon is a term that means confusion, and gateway to heaven. Has both meanings.
Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
Notice the poetry in this verse, all terms are symbolic...
Isa 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee,
Notice the poetry, the trees rejoice at GOD...
Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming:
Notice the poetry, sha'owl is mentioned here...
Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Notice the poetry, two worms here have very special significance.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (bright star), son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
Notice the poetry, who weakens the nations, confusion does who claims to be the gateway to heaven. What is the claim of this religion power, to ascend into heaven, above the throne of GOD.
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Who is the "I" here? The BEING behind the religious power of Babylon. Challenges the Most High Father... is the important piece of the information.
In the court room, the highest in heaven, who's the judge? The Most High... the attorney is who...not told who... it's a label termed "satan" opponent. Is this court thing real?
I see these two passages match with their similes... Most High, court room and attorney called "opponent"... who is this opponent... not told who...
Now if you impeach the Father, can you speak as you like to the Judge? I doubt it...But Singer doesn't unpack the passage at all... Would you expect an opponent to kill Job's sons? Yes, did the Most High order this? no
Dave: "The Jews present what they know – a Christian goes around asking why do God do this or that
I wouldn't say things like that at all. What does the passage say?
Isa 45:1 ¶ Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus,
Who's Cyrus? a non Jew seeking salvation?
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me.
God can make people from any background experience salvation... I do these things...
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. 8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it
The context is about salvation, and the tov and ra aspects in the salvation, the journey out of ra and towards tov.
Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Still about salvation...
Isa 45:10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
Still about salvation, but now shifting to where tov and ra comes from..
Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Perhaps Singer has a point, maybe we shouldn't question GOD...
Isa 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city,
Who is this, Cyrus... the non Jew doing salvation and tov for God
So in this passage, does God really say He creates ra? Or is God speaking of Cyrus, who has ra and now becomes tov? It's really about relationships that change, isn't it?
If you want to reply, talk about the passage, as Singer suggests we should do...
Maybe speaking of Creation, is way out of context? IMO...we have assumed "bara" means to create haven't we? maybe it's meaning is broader?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Nov 22, 2019 9:47:47 GMT -5
חָטָא - H2398 – chata - A primitive root; properly to miss; hence (figuratively and generally) to sin; by inference to forfeit, lack, expiate, repent, (causatively) lead astray, condemn: - bear the blame, cleanse, commit [sin], by fault, harm he hath done, loss, miss, (make) offend (-er), offer for sin, purge, purify (self), make reconciliation, (cause, make) sin (-ful, -ness), trespassive You say miss I see chata as sin (not choice) – so I ask you, ‘miss what’ – then you’ll say ‘miss relationship’ I am not a linguist – I can only speak to what these terms mean to me First definition – Free Will has nothing to do with the shoes I buy – it ONLY has to do with man’s FREE WILL CHOICE to seek God or not. It all things the choice is God or not. Second definition – ‘not God’ = Choshek - first there was Gen 1:1 then 1:2 Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. choshek is a by-product – a consequence of creation What is choshek I don't think it that hard Deception is the beginning of forgetfulness Any forgetting that God is the absolute is in error – it is a direction way from 'God-is-absolute' – it is DARKNESS - choshek - and a movement toward dysfunction (RA) Deception is the idea that it is OK to forget that 'God-is-absolute' In the Gap – (Aeon one) – something happened that was arrogant – it was feminine The first aeon is a feminine first creation that ended with choshek and RA Reset Aeon two is a male first creation – and still the feminine chose choshek and dysfuntion with is the movement toward RA For a Gnostic – this is the same story – one in heaven above - The famine and the choice of choshek and RA One on earth below – Eve and her choice of choshek (disobedience – forgetting that 'God-is-absolute' – deception) and RA Definition 3 – Light Gen 1:3 – God, Christ, salvation from the choshek Definition 4 = mitzvah - keeping with the law – keeping Torah – choosing God Man is a special creation – we are beings that chose – we have the Free Will choice We can choose mitzvah – and move in the direction of function TOV by choosing Light, (God, Christ) We can c hoose chata (sin) – and move in the direction of RA by choosing choshek (darkness, deception, anti-Christ) Gen 1:1-3 = the Torah and Gospel – it is that simple 1- The cherubim are the most frequently occurring heavenly creature in the Hebrew Bible, with the Hebrew word appearing 91 times 2- Gen 3:24 guarding Eden and the tree 3- they transport Yahweh's throne. participates in Yahweh's theophany and is imagined as a vehicle upon which the deity descends to earth from heaven in order to rescue the speaker (see 2 Samuel 22:11, Psalm 18:10). 4- In Exodus 25:18–22, God tells Moses to make multiple images of cherubim 5- images on the curtains of the Tabernacle and in Solomon's Temple, including two measuring ten cubits high. 6- Isaiah 37:16, Hezekiah prays, addressing God as "enthroned above the cherubim" (referring to the mercy seat). In regard's to Solomon's Temple as described in 1 Kings, Eichler renders the phrase yoshev ha-keruvim as “who dwells among the cherubim”. This phrase is the same in 1 Kings and Isaiah. Eichler's interpretation in contrast to common translations for many years that rendered it as “who sits upon the cherubim”. This has implications for the understanding of whether the ark of the covenant in the Temple was literally YHWH's throne or simply an indicator of YHWH's immanenc 7- Cherubim feature at some length in the Book of Ezekiel. While they first appear in chapter one, in which they are transporting the throne of God by the river Chebar, they are not called cherubim until chapter 10.[21] 8- Ezekiel 1:5–11 they are described as having the likeness of a man, and having four faces: that of a man, a lion (on the right side), and ox (on the left side), and an eagle. The four faces represent the four domains of God's rule: the man represents humanity; the lion, wild animals; the ox, domestic animals; and the eagle, birds. These faces peer out from the center of an array of four wings; these wings are joined to each other, two of these are stretched upward, and the other two cover their bodies. Under their wings are human hands; their legs are described as straight, and their feet like those of a calf, shining like polished brass. Between the creatures glowing coals that moved between them could be seen, their fire "went up and down", and lightning burst forth from it. The cherubs also moved like flashes of lightning. 9- In Ezekiel chapter 10, another full description of the cherubim appears with slight differences in details. Three of the four faces are the same – man, lion and eagle – but where chapter one has the face of an ox, Ezekiel 10:14 says "face of a cherub". Ezekiel equates the cherubim of chapter ten with the living creatures of chapter one: "They were the same creatures (חיה) I had seen by the river Chebar" (Ezekiel 10:15) and "These were the living creatures I had seen under the God of Israel on the banks of the river Chebar" (Ezekiel 10:20). In Ezekiel 41:18–20, they are portrayed as having two faces, although this is probably because they are depicted in profile.[4] 10- In Judaism, The figures painted on the walls of the Herodian reconstruction of the Temple are called "cherubim" in the Babylonian Talmud. 11- In Kabbalah there has long been a strong belief in cherubim, with the cherubim and other angels regarded as having mystical roles. The Zohar, a highly significant collection of books in Jewish mysticism, states that the cherubim were led by one of their number named Kerubiel.[2] 12- Cherubim are discussed within the midrash literature. A midrash states that when Pharaoh pursued Israel at the Red Sea, God took a cherub from the wheels of His throne and flew to the spot, for God inspects the heavenly worlds while sitting on a cherub. The cherub, however, is "something not material," and is carried by God, not vice versa (Midr. Teh. xviii. 15; Canticles Rabbah i. 9). Cherub for the Jew is both a creature / being – it is also the imagery of heavenly angelsMake statues of heavenly beings – cherubs Paint images of heavenly beings – cherubs The wind that carries God to and fro – cherubs Cherub is both a being and an image of a being – it is a metaphor
The used of O covering cherub in Exk 28 is a metaphorIf you say words can only mean one thing – then explain Psa 95:7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. Are you a sheep with wool and four legs? Or is it a metaphore? The problem is your assumption I was gobsmacked to see you didn’t even look as far as wikipedia I really do not understand your point – first it was the ahl – then it was the agl (even you Don Patton validated this in the dead Sea Scrolls – your evidence not mine) Man you miss my point entirely – A Jew is going to present what Judaism was like – the thinking and belief system of the first century – I have always said – I listen to these Rabbis as if it was the day before Jesus (this + Jesus = Messianic Judaism = Gnostic Christianity) A Catholic rewrites the OT – misrepresents what it was even like to be a Jew – then tells you that Jesus was speaking to an audience that all had a Roman version of the OT and Judaism (This + Jesus = Rome only) satan job is to make you want to sin – he is the deceiver – he is the one tell you it Ok not to consider God as absolute Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. Satan could do anything he want to – save kill Job Does the PM of Australia tell the sanitation department how to do their Job’s? Does your God of TOV only kill and murder?Exo 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD. Or does He use a servant angel?Exo 12:23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you. Polysemy - metaphores Cool – I love your presentation here – Cyrus is a man in history / a nation and a metaphor for every man – just like Job Cyrus is also a Christ – a metaphor of salvation I see Christ is almost every passage of scripture – the more I see Christ in it the more I weight it
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 19:30:24 GMT -5
Dave: " You say miss I see chata as sin (not choice) – so I ask you, ‘miss what’ – then you’ll say ‘miss relationship’
Rob: " Correct. "chata" is missing relationship with GOD, the only choice we have.
Dave: " Second definition – ‘not God’ = Choshek -
Rob: "Correct. Based on relationship. If GOD is also highly relationial within itself, everything is based on relationship.
Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from "Choshek" to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. (KJV)
Its a poetry simile of relationship not based on GOD, just as light is a simile of a relationship based on GOD. These similes are also ruled by actual personal Beings,
Choshek relationship= Satan
and
Light relationship = GOD.
I have shown you studies of Choshek before. Here is a good verse showing Choshek.
Dave: " choshek is a by-product – a consequence of creation
Rob: "No. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and peace are formed, but Choshek and ra are created: Why the difference between formed and created? Because one naturally comes from GOD, the other is a forced manifestation by GOD, not naturally a part of GOD.
Think of relationship. A good relationship come from where? A bad relationship comes from where?
God only owns one half of the relationship, but keeps alive you hence the realityof relationship , but you freely own your half of the relationship. In order to understand where relationship powers come from, you have to understand Faith or Amenuah properly...meaning support.
A good relationship come from where? When I support GOD's power flowing through me, a good relationship occurs, all I say and do and act and think is a flow of power from GOD via me with my permission as free will, and the good relationship occurs. That's what support means. It is also like a robotic response to love, but its not, I enjoy this love flowing over me, but I must connect to it.
A bad relationship comes from where? When I do not support GOD's power flowing through me, but rather use the power from GOD keeping me alive, and thus I speak and act using my own human powers, which by itself cannot exist without GOD, so this created ra by GOD, known as Baal or Self, is alien to GOD, but it is my reaction to GOD, to speak and say in my own power, I sort of have an ability to do as I please, and think as I like, and say as I feel...these function does not techically exist without GOD, but its created so you can feel sort of free without GOD, and is called missing relationship by GOD. So the bad relationship is made manifest by GOD, giving you the illusion you are free to speak and do using your own human power.
So Choshek and ra like a bad relationship, doesn't technically exist without GOD allowing it to exist. It is as Einstein says, evil doesn't exist, it is simply the absence of GOD in people's lives. Einstein was the smartest Jew we have ever seen?
Dave: " We can choose mitzvah – and move in the direction of function TOV by choosing Light, (God, Christ) We can choose chata (sin) – and move in the direction of RA by choosing choshek
Rob: "Correct.
You do an excellent job showing Jews consider cherubs in Scripture. My apologies for thinking otherwise.
Dave: " Cherub for the Jew is both a creature / being – it is also the imagery of heavenly angels Cherub is both a being and an image of a being – it is a metaphor
The used of O covering cherub in Exk 28 is a metaphor
Jeff Benner says half of tanak is poetry. Poetry is about similes. Let's keep the ideas simple. Otherwise explain metaphor and simile to me, using Scritpure examples. A simile is a poetry way of making something we understand, help us understand something we don't understand.
Proof of this idea?
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Visible poetry objects are similes to help us understand invisible heavenly themes.
So your saying cherub and chata in Ezekiel 28:16 is metaphor, ie ficticious? not real? Unpack what your saying...more details please?
Ps 95:7 ¶ For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
Sheep is a simile of people walking with GOD in relationship. We hear GOD calling us by name as the Feeders called each Sheep by Name, and led them personally down the road.
Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of Elohiym, which taketh away the sin-offering of the world.
Here John a prophet calls Jesus the Lamb of Elohiym, slain from the foundation of the world, to be our sin-offering. This poetry simile is rich in meaning. The Lamb was slain daily to make the relationship restored eternally, but those missing relationship. This implies something went wrong with relationships from the foundation of the world.
Your suggestion humans as a kind as the same as sheep as a kind, is silly. That's not how poetry works.
The trees of the field shall clap their hands, is a poetry simile of humans clapping their hands. It makes the poetry real, the comments real, the simile is real, not a metaphor or unreal as you claim with "cherub and chata" in Ezekial 28:16. In fact King Tyre was a real person as a kind, doing chata.
This is made into a poetry simile to explain where bad relationships came from before the foundation of our world.
A first cherub began missing relationship, doing chata also.
Both similes are real, both describe real Beings, Both describe simile situations.
Show me a poetry simile about GOD that is not real, has some obvious metaphor intent? Is there such a verse?
Dave: " I really do not understand your point
Rob: "OK...
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? Whom shall teach doctrine and torah? Do we begin as babes drinking milk from the breasts of GOD or from MAN? Isa 28:10 How do we read torah? From my commands upon my commands, from my lines upon lines, using verses here and there, through my torah. Isa 28:11 But some with stammering lips, and in another tongue speak to this people.
The key words are AND in ANOTHER tongue, or a different language, the torah speaks to the Gentiles, is what this passage is alluding to, IMO.
Dave: " I have always said – I listen to these Rabbis as if it was the day before Jesus
Oh I see, to get their opinion of what Jews think, before Jesus changes things...
Dave: " satan job is to make you want to sin – he is the deceiver
Rob: So Dave, isn't a deceiver also a sinning Cerub? A deceiver by definition is sinning, to encourage you to sin also.
Dave: " Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. Satan could do anything he want to – save kill Job Does the PM of Australia tell the sanitation department how to do their Job’s?
Rob: "Your considering the Sanitation Department as a Department on the same side as the Goverment of Australlia. What if they are enemies of each other?
So your saying GOD can allow wounding of people who follow GOD? Than GOD doesn't obey His own laws? (Ex 20:13 No kill.)
Either GOD follows His own laws, or He doesn't? Which is it?
Dave: " Does your God of TOV only kill and murder? Exo 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
Rob" Tough question...what is the first of the Father's ten directions about? Relationship.
Ex 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Have no other "elohiym" before me.
Hard to understand?
Ho 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
Same exact wording with three more addded words... no saviour but me.
What's a saviour all about, One who rescues relationships.
So "I am your realationship"
What happens if you don't want His relationship? Can GOD end relationship with you? Yes (Ex 20:13 No kill.)
When Jesus becomes our Saviour, the Father must allow RA to kill Jesus, in order to save us. So what caused this bad relationship in the first place?
Relationships can seem robotic, if there is never any RA in it.
Obviously a created creature with relationship decided to try another choice...
And missing relationship began, termed in Scripture as sin. And who was this first relationshipp that went bad, A cherub did chata. Ezekiel 28:16
Dave: " Or does He use a servant angel? Exo 12:23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
Who is this destroyer? It has to be based on relationship...
Pr 6:32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.
Man and woman do adultery... relationship gone bad. A simile of destroy own soul.
Pr 25:26 ¶ A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. man doing wicked, is a destroying spring... ie a relationship goes bad
Pr 28:24 ¶ Whoso robbeth his father or his mother, and saith, It is no transgression; the same is the companion of a destroyer.
A destroyer is a relationship gone bad, one who hates the Father and Mother in heaven.
Jer 51:1 ¶ Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind 'ruwach';
Who is the destroyer? The Holy Spirit is.
What is the Shadday doing by functioning as the Holy Spirit, its a relationship function with the Father, forming a medium, so Ra can exist, while technically it shouldn't, but since free will relationships wish ra, the ra is manifest by the medium. Can the medium destroy? yes, you simply remove the presence of the Holy Spirit function go back to Shadday as a Personal Being, and no more ra exists before the Father. It is called the strange act of GOD.
Your thinking the destroyer is an angel , perhaps Satan? no. This cherub is only the father of ra, a murderer from the beginning Jesus says.
Shalom and Happy Sabbath
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