Post by Dave on Sept 28, 2019 9:57:10 GMT -5
The Jews say
www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1055341/jewish/Can-Angels-Sin.htm
JEWISH PRACTICE - Questions & Answers
Can Angels Sin?
By Yehuda Shurpin
At first glance the answer seems simple enough. After all, did we not receive the Torah precisely because angels cannot sin? As Moses retorted in his winning argument to the angels during his epic debate in heaven over who should receive the Torah. "It is written in the Torah 'Thou shall not murder,' 'Thou shall not commit adultery,' 'Thou shall not steal.'" Moses said. "Is there jealousy among you!? Do you have an evil inclination!? Obviously the Torah is not meant for you."1
In other words, only man has been endowed with the inclination for both good and bad. And only man has been given free choice to choose either one. An angel, on other hand, has no evil inclination and therefore no free choice. This would seem to mean that an angel is something like a robot, which cannot rebel or sin.
Even the oft-cited example of the Satan as a rogue angel is a gross misunderstanding. angels have no carnal needs; they do not crave physical pleasure. It is in this sphere that man stands alone as a unique being in the universe. This angel is also the prosecutor who levels charges in front of the heavenly court against those who succumb to his crafty seductions. The word satan simply means prosecutor in Hebrew. If the Heavenly court decides that it is time for someone to die, then the Satan is the one sent down to take his life. In fact, the Talmud tells us that, "Satan, the urge to do evil, and the Angel of Death are all one."2 All these titles are simply multiple job descriptions for one angel. An angel fulfilling its divine duty is hardly in conflict with its own Creator.
outreachjudaism.org/if-angels-dont-have-freewill-do-they-know-the-difference-between-good-and-evil/
Outreach Judaism
Question:
This question came up after reviewing a chapter in Volume 2 of “Let’s Get Biblical” by Rabbi Tovia Singer: If the messengers don’t have free will, and Gen 3:22 refers to Gd’s heavenly court, how come they know the difference between good and evil? Then the L-rd G-d said: “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil.”
Answer:
When Adam and his wife ate from the Tree of Knowledge, it became impossible for them to remain in the Garden of Eden. They were now fully imbued with principled understanding, possessed full moral knowledge of good and evil, and craved pleasure. Animals do not possess moral awareness. God is omnipotent and omniscient. He created everything, including evil, with no limitation. Moreover, He possesses unlimited knowledge and understanding.
Do angels possess the knowledge of good and evil? As it turns out they do, and one angel was tasked to seduce man into sin. Angels possess the knowledge that man only acquired following the sin in the Garden. Angels do not act upon this knowledge because they do not have free will; they have no independent agency. Angels are, however, supernal beings. They are not subject of the material limitations of death. Moreover, angels have no carnal needs; they do not crave physical pleasure. It is in this sphere that man stands alone as a unique being in the universe. Unlike animals, he fully apprehends the difference between good and evil. On the other hand, like animals, man craves physical pleasure.
The Catholics say
www.newadvent.org/summa/1059.htm
Article 1. Whether there is will in the angels?
Objection 1. It would seem that there is no will in the angels. For as the Philosopher says (De Anima iii, text. 42), "The will is in the reason." But there is no reason in the angels, but something higher than reason. Therefore there is no will in the angels, but something higher than the will.
Objection 2. Further, the will is comprised under the appetite, as is evident from the Philosopher (De Anima iii, text. 42). But the appetite argues something imperfect; because it is a desire of something not as yet possessed. Therefore, since there is no imperfection in the angels, especially in the blessed ones, it seems that there is no will in them.
Objection 3. Further, the Philosopher says (De Anima ii, text. 54) that angels have no carnal needs; they do not crave physical pleasure. It is in this sphere that man stands alone as a unique being in the universe.
Christian Apologetics
carm.org/do-angels-have-free-will
Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Angels have free will. But, their free will is consistent with their natures. Good angels will freely choose to do good. Bad angels will freely choose to do bad.
Gnostics say
The Archon was made for a purpose - to test creation
My Summery
angels have no carnal needs; they do not crave physical pleasure. It is in this sphere that man stands alone as a unique being in the universe.
In other words, only man has been endowed with the inclination for both good and bad. And only man has been given free choice to choose either one. An angel, on other hand, has no evil inclination and therefore no free choice. This would seem to mean that an angel is something like a robot, which cannot rebel or sin.
Angels have free will. But, their free will is consistent with their natures. Good angels will freely choose to do good. Bad angels will freely choose to do bad.
Even the oft-cited example of the Satan as a rogue angel is a gross misunderstanding. angels have no carnal needs; they do not crave physical pleasure.
one angel was tasked to seduce man into sin. - An angel fulfilling its divine duty is hardly in conflict with its own Creator.
My Conclusion
In Judaism - Angels have no free will - one angel was tasked to accuse
In Catholicism - Angels have no free will - one angel was tasked to accuse
In Gnosticism - Angels have no free will - one angel was created to accuse
Only in Reformed Protestantism - do 2 verses dominate a doctrine
Ezk 28 is all about the 'one angel' who was 'tasked'
Gnostic - that angel agreed to rule in chaos (hell) rather than serve in heaven
The Creator made the elohiym - they praise God and do his bidding
The female - Holy Spirit made the Archon - to test creation
The male - Christ - is the choice man has between the two paradigms
The superiority of man is not obvious to the eye, but lies in what is hidden from view. Consequently, he has mastery over the animals which are stronger than he is and great in terms of the obvious and the hidden.
Only man has the ability to choose God - choose TOV - Seek the kingdom - this sets man above the angels and therefore their jealousy
www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1055341/jewish/Can-Angels-Sin.htm
JEWISH PRACTICE - Questions & Answers
Can Angels Sin?
By Yehuda Shurpin
At first glance the answer seems simple enough. After all, did we not receive the Torah precisely because angels cannot sin? As Moses retorted in his winning argument to the angels during his epic debate in heaven over who should receive the Torah. "It is written in the Torah 'Thou shall not murder,' 'Thou shall not commit adultery,' 'Thou shall not steal.'" Moses said. "Is there jealousy among you!? Do you have an evil inclination!? Obviously the Torah is not meant for you."1
In other words, only man has been endowed with the inclination for both good and bad. And only man has been given free choice to choose either one. An angel, on other hand, has no evil inclination and therefore no free choice. This would seem to mean that an angel is something like a robot, which cannot rebel or sin.
Even the oft-cited example of the Satan as a rogue angel is a gross misunderstanding. angels have no carnal needs; they do not crave physical pleasure. It is in this sphere that man stands alone as a unique being in the universe. This angel is also the prosecutor who levels charges in front of the heavenly court against those who succumb to his crafty seductions. The word satan simply means prosecutor in Hebrew. If the Heavenly court decides that it is time for someone to die, then the Satan is the one sent down to take his life. In fact, the Talmud tells us that, "Satan, the urge to do evil, and the Angel of Death are all one."2 All these titles are simply multiple job descriptions for one angel. An angel fulfilling its divine duty is hardly in conflict with its own Creator.
outreachjudaism.org/if-angels-dont-have-freewill-do-they-know-the-difference-between-good-and-evil/
Outreach Judaism
Question:
This question came up after reviewing a chapter in Volume 2 of “Let’s Get Biblical” by Rabbi Tovia Singer: If the messengers don’t have free will, and Gen 3:22 refers to Gd’s heavenly court, how come they know the difference between good and evil? Then the L-rd G-d said: “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil.”
Answer:
When Adam and his wife ate from the Tree of Knowledge, it became impossible for them to remain in the Garden of Eden. They were now fully imbued with principled understanding, possessed full moral knowledge of good and evil, and craved pleasure. Animals do not possess moral awareness. God is omnipotent and omniscient. He created everything, including evil, with no limitation. Moreover, He possesses unlimited knowledge and understanding.
Do angels possess the knowledge of good and evil? As it turns out they do, and one angel was tasked to seduce man into sin. Angels possess the knowledge that man only acquired following the sin in the Garden. Angels do not act upon this knowledge because they do not have free will; they have no independent agency. Angels are, however, supernal beings. They are not subject of the material limitations of death. Moreover, angels have no carnal needs; they do not crave physical pleasure. It is in this sphere that man stands alone as a unique being in the universe. Unlike animals, he fully apprehends the difference between good and evil. On the other hand, like animals, man craves physical pleasure.
The Catholics say
www.newadvent.org/summa/1059.htm
Article 1. Whether there is will in the angels?
Objection 1. It would seem that there is no will in the angels. For as the Philosopher says (De Anima iii, text. 42), "The will is in the reason." But there is no reason in the angels, but something higher than reason. Therefore there is no will in the angels, but something higher than the will.
Objection 2. Further, the will is comprised under the appetite, as is evident from the Philosopher (De Anima iii, text. 42). But the appetite argues something imperfect; because it is a desire of something not as yet possessed. Therefore, since there is no imperfection in the angels, especially in the blessed ones, it seems that there is no will in them.
Objection 3. Further, the Philosopher says (De Anima ii, text. 54) that angels have no carnal needs; they do not crave physical pleasure. It is in this sphere that man stands alone as a unique being in the universe.
Christian Apologetics
carm.org/do-angels-have-free-will
Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Angels have free will. But, their free will is consistent with their natures. Good angels will freely choose to do good. Bad angels will freely choose to do bad.
Gnostics say
The Archon was made for a purpose - to test creation
My Summery
angels have no carnal needs; they do not crave physical pleasure. It is in this sphere that man stands alone as a unique being in the universe.
In other words, only man has been endowed with the inclination for both good and bad. And only man has been given free choice to choose either one. An angel, on other hand, has no evil inclination and therefore no free choice. This would seem to mean that an angel is something like a robot, which cannot rebel or sin.
Angels have free will. But, their free will is consistent with their natures. Good angels will freely choose to do good. Bad angels will freely choose to do bad.
Even the oft-cited example of the Satan as a rogue angel is a gross misunderstanding. angels have no carnal needs; they do not crave physical pleasure.
one angel was tasked to seduce man into sin. - An angel fulfilling its divine duty is hardly in conflict with its own Creator.
My Conclusion
In Judaism - Angels have no free will - one angel was tasked to accuse
In Catholicism - Angels have no free will - one angel was tasked to accuse
In Gnosticism - Angels have no free will - one angel was created to accuse
Only in Reformed Protestantism - do 2 verses dominate a doctrine
Ezk 28 is all about the 'one angel' who was 'tasked'
Gnostic - that angel agreed to rule in chaos (hell) rather than serve in heaven
The Creator made the elohiym - they praise God and do his bidding
The female - Holy Spirit made the Archon - to test creation
The male - Christ - is the choice man has between the two paradigms
The Gospel of Philip
The superiority of man is not obvious to the eye, but lies in what is hidden from view. Consequently, he has mastery over the animals which are stronger than he is and great in terms of the obvious and the hidden.
Only man has the ability to choose God - choose TOV - Seek the kingdom - this sets man above the angels and therefore their jealousy