I sorry if I seem hard on you Dave... I just don't understand why different religions see things differently, if we all read Hebrew Scripture, shouldn't we come to the same exact understanding? How is it possible for Hebrew words to be viewed differently? Something is wrong.
I suppose your saying a Messianic would also not see "cherub" and "chata" in the passage I showed you, so they look at other verses? What other verses...there are so few verses on the word "cherub".
Why do you think I am saying Satan is bigger than GOD, just because Satan, the cherub, sinned?
You're a Dad, with daughter? what happens if she throws a tantrum? Suddenly you cannot control her any longer? Sin causes a rise in pride, and thus a broken relationship, ensues. I have a relative on mine, the Dad lose her daughter, just because she chose to run away.
You also say GOD created all things. You might even agree GOD creates relationship. After all, God creates all things, including relationship? no. If that, is the case; than you're just a pawn in His hands, a robot...that's not love. God might know if you want a relationship with Him or not, but God cannot create relationships, nor forcefully own relationships.
So if a Being wants to break relationship, that doesn't make the Being who runs away bigger than GOD. It just means GOD has a problem. This was the first time ever in the universe GOD had a problem.
If one Being can lie, cheat, murder, deceive and steal , and the other Being only knows truth, love and respect, which Being is stronger and more successful over the other? The evil one is. How do I know this? Because of the 3 million God saved in the OT, most of them died in the desert, unworthy of eternal life, so few (as Scripture says) a child could write down those saved. Love is not a strong force in a world of greed, violence and murder.
I would disagree that Satan is stronger than GOD. Satan can't create. He hasn't built a city for his own. He doesn't have immortality.
We ponder confusion.
How does Scripture say to study scripture on a topic?
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Use a single verse, to judge a topic? no...
Mr 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Therefore to those "without", scripture is confusion. Scripture is written to confuse "those without", saying things in riddles and parables. Scripture does this for a reason.
Lu 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
The verse message here is written for people in the light of experience they understand at the time, it does NOT show GOD's ideal of TOV?
If you want to study a topic about death, etc, you would do what Scripture says, look up every line upon line, command upon command, and see if GOD in fact kills anybody... check out all hundreds and hundreds of verses.
Note this example: Also about Jesus speaking to a young man:-
A young man (Jew) wanted to know what he must (do) to be saved?
Jesus told the man first what he wanted to hear...you cannot be saved by (doing) the moral law.
Mt 19:16 ¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
What TOV must I do to be saved?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
Jesus says here clearly GOD is all TOV:
but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
And here says the moral law is 100% about TOV,
18 He saith unto him, Which?
The man was confused, which TOV in the torah did Jesus mean?
Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Jesus mentions a few of the TOV qualities, a man must have...
Mt 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
The sensed he had this TOV, but sensed he lacked something...
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect,
To complete your quest for 100% TOV
go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven:
Go sell all your assets, what TOV principle is this about? Command number 10. No coveting, or positively, Desire Me. Jesus wanted to remove SELF, or this RA to complete his quest for TOV.
and come and follow me.
Why isn't this listed first, why meet the man where he was. The man was obviously in a mixture of RA and TOV. So Jesus met his experience where the man was, in a falsehood idea that man could save themselves by being TOV.
Why didn't Jesus tell the man immediately the correct way to be saved?
Jesus deals with people in the experience they are...that why the OT Israel killed people to enlarge their kingdom, what this GOD's ideal plan? no
The Bible is primarily about GOD dealing with man, not about GOD per se.
Notice the moral laws of salvation are themselves written in the language experience of Egypt, the other unfallen worlds would have different words, but the same principles to obey a GOD of love.
If you want to fairly investigate "muwth" and other words about killing, death etc, you would have to study every line upon line about the topic.
It's really a problem of logic and order. Scripture says GOD is love. Killing and murder is not about love. Therefore these suggestions have a conflict, and our friend on the video says, we have yet to make a discovery about this conflict. Sometimes GOD deals with mankind in their experience, it's not his ultimate will or desire for us, but He can't change us suddenly, because GOD can't do everything...He cannot create relationship...
Notice relationship beings in RA and move slowly towards TOV:-
Ex 23:29 I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee.
30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.
The movement from RA to TOV is done gradually, because GOD can't create relationship changes suddenly in mankind, He has to deal with us where we are and we move slowly more towards Him one day at a time... does this make sense? And thus this is why Scripture matches people where they are in RA, God lives only in TOV, so the journey from RA to TOV, is a journey of salvation.
You say GOD personally experiences both TOV and RA. That is false. God might know both RA and TOV. He moves you from RA to TOV, and in this sense does RA as you request less RA and more TOV.
If GOD was both morally RA and morally TOV, there is no need for saving people, or moving them from RA towards TOV.
Furthermore the moral commandments do not detail RA, but only TOV. The ten commandments begin with RA, but want you to more to totally TOV. That's where GOD is, totally TOV.
This is why Scripture has some messages meeting people where they are. They are swamped in RA, so GOD deals with them in RA. The purpose of salvation is to move relationships with GOD towards where GOD is, 100% TOV.
Dave quote: "Then why didn’t anyone at AHR agree with you?
I don't think I ran into anyone who was a Yeshua supporter? I assumed everyone would be a supporter of Jeff Benner's material : it was his forum. But they hated the NT, and Jeff's pictograph theory, etc. No wonder Jeff Benner left them too.
Dave quote: "Would a Messianic Jew have to change anything? Jesus is their Jewish Messiah - do they all have to convert to Catholicism? BS
Do Jews know the truth as Hebrew presents it? I suspect the oral law and traditions force them to become blind so they don't see.
Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Consider the debates Jesus had with Jews? Why did he have to debate them? Because they followed tulmud, Jesus didn't do this. Jesus followed torah, not oral law and traditions.
Dave quote: "Tradition and its history guide us in our Biblical expression in keeping G-d’s commandments.
Ask a Jew how many rules there are in keeping Sabbath? Hundreds I suspect.
I also keep Sabbath from Friday night to Saturday sunset. I follow only the torah rules, not the hundreds of oral laws and traditions.
Here is a Sabbath commandment nobody obeys, not even members in my own church, I suspect Jews don't do this either?, because they don't see Hebrew:
De 5:15 ... therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep (asah) "do" the sabbath day.
This command on Sabbath "ceasing day" is to "do on Ceasing day"... do what?
Jews and SDA people see Sabbath as a day of ceasing, which it is, so why this Hebrew command? to "do on ceasing day" do what? As Jesus did... do redemption... it's meant to be a busy day... not a ceasing day...
we share our joy in Jesus to others, doing redemption to them, as Jesus does redemption in us. that's what I see here....
I am glad you see 613 commands as wrong, so do I. I have compiled over 7,000 rules of love from the Scriptures, assuming you can define love in actions of doing.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-1081.htm Quote: "This is where I go – when I have the chance (almost 70 miles - one way)
It is the closest to me - I have played 20 questions there, but prefer the Rabbis from Israel
You're lucky. I would love to go to.
So Messanics don't see angels sinning, as in Ezekiel 28. You asked them this?
So I take it that Messanics also see TOV and RA as a spectrum of GOD, a natural design in man?
Why would we need an angel to rule over the RA?
Where did archons come from? And why do we need to have them? Why do you have the archons testing us with RA? Why not just live eternally in TOV and RA, as GOD created us? When Adam sinned what changed, if everything has RA and TOV naturally in it?
Can you say IMO what RA and TOV there was before Adam sinned, and what RA and TOV was there after Adam sinned? Did anything change?
You speak of sin as a choice? What does this mean? A choice for what?
I see GOD and 100% TOV. Our universes was designed to change to Tov and Ra should Adam choose sinning, thus choose RA. Otherwise RA never existed in our earth in the beginning. Thus salvation is a journey from RA to TOV, in a relationship with GOD who is only TOV. Where did RA come from originally? For the angel who sinned first in heaven.
But you don't see any of this. SO detail carefully what I presented using your theory of RA and TOV, and why archons are necessary at all.
In my presentation, Satan or archons or demons are NOT necessary in the testing GOD imposes on us. Sure such things exist, but we need only avoid the RA and seek the TOV, and we do this by focusing on GOD, not some opponent. Scripture does not say know your enemy, it says fight the good fight of faith, get to know GOD and GOD fights your opponent problems, not you in your own strength.
Dave quote: "You have an entire doctrine built around two passages
Yes. Scripture often has only one text on a theme, but others add to them.
Salvation based on faith. One Scripture text in the OT Hebrew. Habb 2:4
YHWH Father and YHWH Yeshua. One Scripture text lists two He who exists, both at the same time in two different locations. Gen 19:24
Shadday is Ruwach. One text. Job 33:3
Third coming of Jesus to earth. One text. Zech 14:3
Scripture says to line up each line upon line, plumbing them to the corner stone, when you making a wall of stones, each tiny stone is small, but united the "wall of stones" makes a clear message.
Shalom