Gnostic Christianity and the charismatic Pentecosta movement

[Alan McDougall]

What I really like about Gnostic Christianity, is that it allows one to embrace the mystical side of the faith. I see myself as a latter day mystic and Dave your posts which induced writings from the books of Enoch, read almost as if I had wrote them myself?  


However, I get very disturbed by the mad scenes one observers in the likes of the Benny Hinn ministery or in fact the Toronto Blessing crowds who follow the crazy teaching of Rodney Howard Brown , who is sadly a fellow South African. 


Your comments please.

[Dave]

Philadelphia Church of God Healing Doctrine
www.exitsupportnetwork.com/mike_ep/pcg/healing.htm

As a member of the WCG/PCG for 30+ years, I wanted to share with those just now becoming interested in the Philadelphia Church of God (PCG) what they will be taught to believe about healing.

First, you will be taught that all sickness is the result of sin. You will be taught that sin must be repented of and forgiven in order to be healed. You will be quoted many Scriptures to back this up. You will not be quoted the following verse:

"And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, neither this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him" (John 9:2-3).

You will be quoted the following verse:

"Is any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him" (James 5:14-15).

You will be taught that it is always God's will to heal; that you must wait in faith no matter what happens to you or your loved one. It all depends on "your faith." If you die, well, you died either in faith, or you died because of lack of faith. You will be told, "If you do not have the faith to be healed, you do not have the faith to be saved." Yet, you are told you are allowed to go to a doctor if you do not have enough faith.1 You should know, however, that if you go to a doctor, the members are instructed not to pray for your healing, because you have committed a sin. On the other hand, you may go to a "natural" healer, as long as you depend on God to heal you. Medical doctors represent idolatry.

The result of this teaching is tragic. Every member knows (or knew) several others who died slow and horrible deaths, often in great agony …

You will be taught that all other churches are false "churches of the world." In fact, once a person becomes a member of PCG, he must stop watching all other church TV programs or reading their material. Perhaps the worst offense against God is the fact that the members are taught that the healings experienced in other churches are false miracles performed by Satan and they are to ignore all other miracles anywhere as works of the devil! There are other churches whose members did not fall over backwards in a wild frenzy, but who were healed by God. They simply believed in the grace of God, and they were healed. Many have gone to doctors and were scheduled for surgery that did not have to be performed. Even the doctors had to admit it was a miracle.

Personal Experience

1995, Warsaw Indiana, Kosciusko Community Hospital, I had my hands on a 12 yr old little girl that died in our ER from “Strep Throat.” The story made national headlines for a bit. Faith Assembly – God will heal. But Mom broke down at the last minute and called EMS while dad is at work. The back story that didn’t make the papers was him screaking at her in the waiting room for condemning their daughter’s soul to hell, because of her lack of faith.

Did this little girl die because they belonged to a wacko church? – YES
The state prosecuted the parents for neglect.

South Bend Indiana, I was invited to a Pentecostal Church several times. Come and learn how to speak in lounges. It is a learned thing. – and just as this church in Philadelphia – it was a private club – “if I never spoke in lounges then I would never enter heaven.

I never went – thought about it

Utah, I am alone in the road – skiing trip. Small town Utah. Many cars at this little ‘non-Mormon’ church. Pentecostal call to the alter – I thought the Lord led me there for a reason. I stood in line to go up, but when I got there, I just shook the man’s hand and exited.

Why can’t I buy into it? -=- My God is not a showboat. Tricks and personal selfish ‘me only’ gifts do not help spread the Gospel. The gifts in Acts served a purpose in facilitating God’s will on earth – not for some form of religiosity self-gratification.

The one guy that I knew well in 1992 that spoke in lounges then – has since fallen away from Christendom – he won’t even post here because I am nuts to believe

How real was his experience?

Tangibility

Pretend – go back in time 100,000 years. Have the people come to your alter and make them stand in ½ of water. As they pray to you, zap them with some low voltage tingling until their hair is all standing on end. THEY WOULD BELIEVE YOU A gOD!

Joseph Smith performed 11 documented miracles – healing 75 people at once with prayer. – That’s tangible! People believed.

ISIS members in a masque - if they are being energized there by something – that is tangible enough to die as a suicide-bomber.

Joan of Arc – had a vision – it changed the history of France

I Kings 18:38 (NIV) Then the fire of the LORD fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.

Moses versus Pharaoh – Tangability – you can believe that – 9 plagues – part the Red Sea – Manna – water from a rock – little ole Israel versus the giant rephaim of Jericho and Canaan – deliverance from the furnace and the Lion’s Den.

Christ fulfilling 1.10 x 10128 prophecies – resurrection – THOMAS – tangibility

Tangibility is a seductive validation of as false idol or prophet

In the Great Contest the weapon of the opposition force is DECEPTION


Here is the problem with the “This way only clubs” – there way might be a very Gospel way indeed, there way may look just like this model or that model. Many will say one is true and the other not – while the reverse is true from the other camp.

I Ponder – are we all called the same? Are we all led the same? Moses and Pharaoh, two sides and the hand of God on each side. CONTEST – Someone had to be Judas – is he truly damned for carrying out God’s plan – for him.

People have different roles to play – one-way-ism negates this

God gave us creation and that should be tangible enough – but people are looking for a tangible “spiritual” (actually emotional) experience -

For those who have experienced it – good for them

It makes me nervous – and causes me to doubt source – or make me worry that I am being duped? Scammed, by a demon in the guise of Christendom?

[Dave]

Gnostic Christianity

You know this is a term I invented for myself - gnosis is just knowledge
and I use knowledge from sources outside Romes sanctioned 'one-book'

Seeking the Kingdom of Heaven - done intelligence requires more than just any particular 'religious' dogma.

All of creation points to the Creator

Current social cosmology has thousands of different non-related disconnected themes - the religious one - the scientific one - the Darwinian one - the alien one - ancient astronauts - Annanuki - Hindu Vedas - Inca - Aztec - UFO - intra-dimensional contact - CERN -- all of it taking a segment of the population to a different version of reality

Gnostic Christianity says - all these different themes must blend into the one and only way it happened - all themes are related - all themes are simple sub-plots within the whole of God's plan.

Gnostic Christianity also sees the SCALE of God's plan so much larger than one dimensional religions
It is larger than Kansas, it is larger than the US, it is larger than planet Earth, it is larger than our galaxy, it is even larger than our universe - it is a 10 dimensional multi-verse.

In a different post you used the vocabulary:

"... our ethereal body, our souls our eternal minds!"
Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/348/mind-soul-same-thing?page=1#ixzz3gcZ9AWha

A FUNDAMENTALIST (meaning just strict to their chosen pigeonholed dogma) could criticize your choice of words, warn you of being to 'new-age'

Vocabulary and semantic is the game that keeps us apart

I know what you mean, everyone knows what you mean, if they admitted it to themselves - all of us have used these very words to attempt to best describe something indescribable

Gnostics just skip this vocabulary issue - we all have different backgrounds - and I believe God's speaks to us each uniquely - and I guess uniquely implies differently

I call it a monkey wrench - you call it a pipe wrench - why argue, either way, it will do the job

This is the Gnostic point - do the job - Seek the Kingdom - have the conversation - wherever two or more are gathered - there He is - seek it - seek him - regardless of form - regardless if our lines of reasoning are dead ends - BECAUSE - they are only human reasoning, speculations, ideas to explore, it is all the Word - all creation is the Word - we are just studying the Word

Advertisement - Malware - computer literacy

Thanks for removing the adware - we are all aware of the struggle - thanks for your efforts
Virginia and Anna - two women that I love - big time personal supporters - both senior and new to keyboarding as well as the internet - to encourage them to post (to have the same conversations we have anyway by email) - but they were shy to post to the world

my deal with them - was to moderate their post. Whenever I saw their post, I would fix their spelling - etc. I am the moderator for this entire site. Just recently I think I was in Larry's post and then emailed you and it caused confusion. I don't like the moderator role - but somethings need editing by someone (if you know what I mean)

My point - it is just stuff - and stuff don't matter as we seek the Lord

[Dave]

Jul 21, 2015 22:56:26 GMT -5 Dave said:

Did this little girl die because they belonged to a wacko church? – YES
The state prosecuted the parents for neglect.

Death

How I hope I am - How I want to be
If He wants me here for some reason - I am not leaving
I can make my life as physically agonizing as possible in the process - but I am not leaving
If He calls me home - I hope I do not cling to life in resistance to his call

I work in medicine and it is a publicity driven pharmaceutical scam
My income is generated by the elderly clinging to the last few years of their lives
Save me they say to me ---- I am just a man - they are asking the right question of the wrong person
If they were saved - in the only way that matters - why are they so afraid to go?

An argument could be made that these Faith Assembly parents were prosecuted for allowing their child to go to heaven to be with God.

We watch how many suicidal Muslims blow themselves up with conviction of something better
Yet, Christian do-gooder hospitals are filled with patients begging to be saved back into this mortal material word

Makes me Ponder

My family and I just spent time at the Colville Confederated 12 Tribes Reservation in Washington State. There old Indian men still do the the death walk. They wake up one day and decide to walk off into the wilderness. They simply disappear. Their disappearance is a policy mystery - bodies are seldom found - fueling the Big Foot legends even more - to this day.

I was just telling my daughters that in my career I see more dead men in the ER than women. I see sick women that are rushed to surgery and intensive care for two weeks - and then I hear they died. The men usually wait too long before they come in - it is a trend. Realistically - which is more desirable?

I hated my time in Indiana before they changed the law. Some of our critical patient only problem is that they were 104 yrs old. Some of them had not had a visitor in 15 yrs. Because the patient could not remember them visiting anyway. - They have a DNR signed - then he comes some long lost relative from out of state saying - NO - save uncle Fred - now the patent is a full code and drastic measures must be taken so their quiet passing into the night is as miserable as possible.

Now Indian has a Chemical Code Law - before, and as in most of the country, there are only two options. DNR (do not resuscitate) or full code (extreme measures). Now the 3rd option presented to the family is this. We will give the drugs (atropin and epi) IV, but will do not chest compressions. It is there as an OUT for the family. We tried a little - financially and out of respect to many patients - I like this law.

This is a hard subject - mortality - this is who I hope I am