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Post by Alan McDougall on Jul 13, 2015 10:36:48 GMT -5
Origin of Evil by Alan McDougall.
Here are my conclusions on the origin of Evil.
(Of course I make a disclaimer that I am not positive, that I am correct, and welcome critique from you guys please)
Where does evil really come from?
I cannot comprehend the view that a perfect, good; loving god of pure light could ever conceive the concept of evil in his totally pure and holy mind.
Evil is totally opposite to gods absolute goodness, completely alien to his innate intrinsic nature and essence. All evil is a monstrous abomination to God.
God is perfect and would, therefore, does not permit the concept of evil to originate or exist in his perfect holy mind or in his presence of pure light.
How then could god create a being with the "potential" for the utter evil that we see all around us on planet earth and in the universe? (Lucifer, eve, Adam and some of mankind)? Lucifer was perfect when created! Adam was innocent!
How could a perfect being like Lucifer become corrupt? I like to use the analogy of the perfect motor car. A perfect motor car would simply last forever in its original perfect condition. Except under one condition outside destructive interference".
The very same result would be with a perfect being such as Lucifer! (Who told him he was beautiful? certainly not God!) God would never write into his book of existence the concept or possibility of a malignant thing such as evil. Evil must, therefore, have originated outside of his perfect self and mind! What possible use could evil be to god?
God is omnipotent (all-powerful), omnipresent (all - present) and omniscient (all - knowing) he is however not "everything" god is "light" and in him is no darkness whatsoever! , Therefore, "darkness" must be an external something separate from Himself.
I know from experience, that the source of evil and its origin is from some external eternal monster that lurks remote from god in the primeval darkness of the deep (Gen 1:1). I call this place the "void"(hell). I am convinced that the ‘(‘void’) is hell by a terrifying personal experience during a near death episode.
I was shown an evil monster of almost infinite intelligence lurks in the deepest darkness of the void (hell), while there. It is this eternal monster that I believe tempted Lucifer, resulting in his downfall and his metamorphosis into Satan or the Devil. This monster is the complete opposite to god and dwells in utmost darkness deep, and very remote from god. I know this is true as I was shown this Malignant Monstrous Beast by an intelligence I took for God, while in the Void (hell).
I was told that it is God’s eternal enemy and the reason for evil and its origin and perpetuation. This thing is almost as mighty as God is himself! (Light against darkness). It seemed to be some type of antibody? There is an Anti-Christ-why not an Anti-God, Maybe they are one and the same evil being?
If we do not accept my explanation, then one must go to the Bible and read Isaiah 45; 7 were God says" Inform the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil: I the lord do all these things. This verse could be a very definite and clear indication of the origin of evil; namely evil originating from god himself and god having two natures.
On what basis do I justify my previous statements? They are justified on the basis of my own personal terrible confrontation with this evil monster that lurks deep in the "Void” or hell. (Three times during brought on by near death episodes).
This "void" monster is worshiped by Satan and I am convinced is the ultimate source and origin of all evil. Satan did not confront me during one of my near death experiences, but by something almost infinitely worse! Satan is the prince of darkness, not the king of Evil! This thing is god’s eternal enemy and has a diabolic almost infinite evil dark intelligence and power.
I experienced that God due to his innate perfection is forced to judge Evil (darkness) and remove it forever from his being. I felt this judgment more as an emotional separation from God, with feelings of utter darkness, desolation, despair, and fear terror, horror and everlasting dark cold hopelessness, the Void.
I was shown that totally depraved dark evil beings , would have to eternally exist, somewhere far together, forever, separate and remote from god’s love and could never enter his light. (Darkness cannot penetrate the light!). Because of their utter evil depravity and darkness, totally
Evil and Depraved beings would never enter gods light and would be forgotten by God in their own Evil Depraved Perversions forever in the Void” A terrible thought".
When I was so very ill, I communicated with intelligence, who revealed these things to me? I got the impression that God would someday rescue persons of much lesser evil, who had some light (goodness) in them. From the lesser upper regions of the Void into His eternal blessed light. (Out of the eternal darkness).
Let measure the reader that there is no love, joy peace or light in the Void. Only utmost hopeless desolation and everlasting despair.
There is Good and Evil throughout the Universe. I know this from personal experience! The battle is from Eternal past but God will destroy the Beast of the Abysses
But do not despair if you are reading this short essay of mine, you are safe because God is within you and you have a spark of eternal life energy that can never be extinguished. This light will one day become a blazing furnace of love.
God does not have two natures!
It is death!
It is evil!
It is hate!
God is Life!
God is Good!
God is Love!
GOD IS GOOD
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Post by Dave on Jul 18, 2015 14:54:48 GMT -5
Thank you for the post – now here is a subject that I have spent much of my life on.
Who is the “Evil One” and where did it come from. You say a lot of good stuff here and some of it sounds just like me – but by using Roman vocabulary and imagery you are trapped within their mythology.
I will pick on a few points –
You say,
“I cannot comprehend the view that a perfect, good; loving god of pure light could ever conceive the concept of evil in his totally pure and holy mind.
Evil is totally opposite to gods absolute goodness, completely alien to his innate intrinsic nature and essence. All evil is a monstrous abomination to God.
God is perfect and would, therefore, does not permit the concept of evil to originate or exist in his perfect holy mind or in his presence of pure light.
How then could god create a being with the "potential"
… (and) …
Evil and Depraved beings would never enter gods light”
Here is my problem – any statement that begins with God cannot – just limits God and His abilities.
“Light” – you and I see this word very differently
To me – “light” – is the electromagnetic wave that spans from infinitely long to infinitely short.
God spoke the Word – and the vibration (wave) of that Word reverberated throughout our universe and matter was created. God is everywhere. There is no place where God is not. I here Roman preachers say that there can be no evil in light – and children all over the world are afraid of the dark – the entire industry of night-lights was created over this silly Roman attitude.
Yet – In Job God and Satan are in the same place having a conversation.
Some Christians hold that Jesus preached in hell for 3 days
In Rev 12 – we see that the Dragon and all of his 1/3rd are in heaven, with all the other angels, and the Bride of Christ.
So – your statement that evil cannot exist where God is – is a false statement
Evil exist on Earth – under your presentation God could not be here also.
Can God do evil Himself? – Here again this requires a definition of what evil is. Because God sent the angel of death onto the innocent Egyptian people because of their Pharaoh. From their perspective there was nothing just or merciful about the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Lucifer – you ask - How could a perfect being like Lucifer become corrupt?
Lucifer is not Satan. Lucifer is not the Dragon. Lucifer only comes from the Latin Septuagint (LXX) from Isaiah 14. No Eastern Christian embraces this term. No Gnostic embraces this term. No Hebrew embraces this term. Every Hebrew I have had this conversation just points out:
Isaiah 14:16 (ASV) They that see thee shall gaze at thee, they shall consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Ishaiah 14 is about Cyrus, a mortal man, the King of Persia, and the Star Venus
In Gnostic cosmology – there is no Lucifer – it is a Roman myth
How could a perfect being like Lucifer become corrupt?
We are all born perfect - how do people get so corrupt?
Satan – Rome also give the immediate impression that Satan is a being, a creature of some type, a fallen angel – wrong again
Mathew 16:23 – the Apostle Peter was called Satan by Jesus
Satan is a Hebrew verb meaning to accuse – in Hebrew it is never a noun – only Rome makes this word a noun giving Satan a body and an identity.
Whoever is doing the accusing is the Satan. I can be your Satan. You can be my Satan. Just as Peter was Jesus’ Satan.
In Gnostic cosmology if God asked the Dragon to raise its hand – only one being would do so
But if God asked Satan to raise it hand – many hands would go up
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Post by Dave on Jul 18, 2015 15:25:01 GMT -5
I was shown an evil monster of almost infinite intelligence lurks in the deepest darkness of the void (hell), while there. It is this eternal monster that I believe tempted Lucifer, resulting in his downfall and his metamorphosis into Satan or the Devil. This monster is the complete opposite to god and dwells in utmost darkness deep, and very remote from god. I know this is true as I was shown this Malignant Monstrous Beast by an intelligence I took for God, while in the Void (hell). I really like this statement - it is very close to Gnostic literature The Nag Hammadi Library
The Apocryphon of John
(The Secret Book of John -- The Secret Revelation of John)
Long Version
Nag Hammadi Codex II, 1 & Nag Hammadi Codex IV, 1 10 Sophia of the Epinoia, being an Aeon, thought a thought from within herself and the thought of the invisible Spirit and Foreknowledge. She willed a likeness to appear from within herself without the will of the Spirit—It had not approved—and without her partner and without his consideration. For the countenance of her masculinity did not approve, and she had not found her partner. She deliberated apart from the will of the Spirit and the understanding of her partner. She brought forth.
Because of the unconquerable power within her, her thought did not remain idle. And an imperfect product appeared from her, and it was different from her pattern because she created it without her partner. And it was not patterned after the likeness of its Mother, for it had a different form. When she saw (the product of) her will, it was different, a model of a lion-faced serpent. His eyes were like flashing fires of lightning. She cast him out from her, outside of those places so that none among the immortals might see him, for she had created him in ignorance.
And she surrounded him with a luminous cloud. And she placed a throne in the midst of the cloud in order that no one might see him except the holy Spirit, who is called the mother of the living. She named him Yaltabaoth. This is the Chief Ruler, the one who got a great power from his Mother.
11 And he withdrew from her and he abandoned the placed where he had been born. He seized (another place). He created for himself another aeon inside a blaze of luminous fire, which still exists now.
And he was stupefied in his Madness, the one who dwells within him, and he begat some authorities for himself.
The name of the first is Athoth, the one whom the generations call the [reaper]. The second is Harmas, who is [the eye] of envy. The third is Kalila-Oumbri. The fourth is Yabel. The fifth is Adonaiou, who is called Sabaoth. The sixth is Cain, whom the generations of humanity call the sun. The seventh is Abel. The eighth is Abrisene. The ninth is Yobel. The tenth is Armoupieel. The eleventh is Melcheir-Adonein. The twelfth is Belias; he is the one who is over the depth of Hades.
And he set up seven kings over the seven heavens, one per firmament of heaven, and five over the depth of the abyss so that they might rule.
12 And he divided his fire among them, but he did not send them (anything) from the power of the light which he had received from his Mother. For he is ignorant darkness. When the light mixed with the darkness, it caused the darkness to shine, but when the darkness mixed with the light, it darkened the light, so that it became neither light nor dark, but it was weak.
Now this weak ruler has three names. The first name is Yaltabaoth. The second is Saklas. The third is Samael. He is impious in his Madness, she who dwells in him. For he said, am God and no other god exists except me,' since he is ignorant of the place from which his strength had come.The Cheif Archon was created not by the Father Creator, but by the Female aspect of God, the Holy Spirit, the mother and womb of all creation. Who then made servants for himself. This is the Dragon of Rev 12, but not the Serpent of Gen 3 |
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Post by Alan McDougall on Jul 19, 2015 3:38:36 GMT -5
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your interesting responce to my thread. What I wrote was really just one possible way of explaining the existence in light of an benevolence God. Namely another eternal being of a different negative entity polarity E.G. (Anti-God). Of course this is just speculation, thus my disclaimer in my first post.
One of my problems with blaming Lucifer for the existence of evil and suggesting he might actually be a different entity than the Devil is reading what Jesus had to say about the Devil (Not Lucifer the fallen?)
Lucifer
How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’ But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.
Ezekiel 28
“‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings[c] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you. ( From where then did this wickedness come , a Perfect being simply cannot become wicked that is an oxymoron, perfect/evil?)
The Devil
John 8:44
He (The Devil) was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Revelation 12:9 ESV / 115 helpful votes
Satan
Is Satan and the Devil are the same entity?
Is Satan and Lucifer are then the same entity?
Is the Devil the same entity as Lucifer (Maybe not because the Devil was a liar from the beginning and in his is no truth)
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
The Ancient Serpent, is called devil and satan, but is the Ancient Serpent really the Devil or is he sometimes wrongly referred to as the devil (small letters)?
Contrasting what is said about Lucifer and the formally perfect being in Ezekiel 28 (Who I also assume is also referring to Lucifer). Both were perfect and then fell due to some temptation. My problem with that a perfect being, would remain perfect, unless he was informed from an outside source that he could become even greater. Who then was this outside source that tempted Lucifer?
I know I am not the first or will be the last to ask this question, but I am perplexed as to why the Bible would refer to the same etnity by diifrent names or titles?
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Post by Dave on Jul 19, 2015 10:19:32 GMT -5
From: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LuciferLucifer (/ˈlʲuːsɪfər/ lew-sif-ər) is the King James Version rendering of the Hebrew word הֵילֵל in Isaiah 14:12. This word, transliterated hêlêl[1] or heylel,[2] occurs only once in the Hebrew Bible[1] and according to the KJV-influenced Strong's Concordance means "shining one, morning star".[2] The word Lucifer is taken from the Latin Vulgate,[3] which translates הֵילֵל as lucifer,[Isa 14:12][4][5] meaning "the morning star, the planet Venus", or, as an adjective, "light-bringing".[6] The Septuagint renders הֵילֵל in Greek as ἑωσφόρος[7][8][9][10][11] (heōsphoros),[12][13][14] a name, literally "bringer of dawn", for the morning star.[15] Later Christian tradition came to use the Latin word for "morning star", lucifer, as a proper name ("Lucifer") for the Devil; …. Translation of הֵילֵל as "Lucifer", as in the King James Version, has been abandoned in modern English translations of Isaiah 14:12. Present-day translations have "morning star" (New International Version, New Century Version, New American Standard Bible, Good News Translation, Holman Christian Standard Bible, Contemporary English Version, Common English Bible, Complete Jewish Bible), "daystar" (New Jerusalem Bible, English Standard Version, The Message, "Day Star" New Revised Standard Version), "shining one" (New Life Version, New World Translation, JPS Tanakh) or "shining star" (New Living Translation). The term appears in the context of an oracle against a dead king of Babylon,[25] who is addressed as הילל בן שחר (hêlêl ben šāḥar),[26][27] rendered by the King James Version as "O Lucifer, son of the morning!" and by others as "morning star, son of the dawn". As a result, "'Lucifer' has become a by-word for Satan/the Devil in the church and in popular literature",[3] as in Dante Alighieri's Inferno and John Milton's Paradise Lost.[14] There is no such thing as Lucifer – it is Roman Mythology
Lucifer was not even a communally used term in America until the Scofield Study Bible was published in 1909About Scofield – from: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._I._ScofieldIn 1873 he worked for the election of John J. Ingalls as senator from Kansas, and when Ingalls won, the new senator had Scofield appointed U. S. District Attorney for Kansas—at 29, the youngest in the country.[7] Nevertheless, that same year Scofield was forced to resign "under a cloud of scandal" because of questionable financial transactions, that may have included accepting bribes from railroads, stealing political contributions intended for Ingalls, and securing bank promissory notes by forging signatures.[8] It is possible Scofield was jailed on forgery charges, although there is no extant evidence in the public records.[9] ... Perhaps in part because of his self-confessed heavy drinking,[10] Scofield abandoned his wife and two daughters during this period.[11] Leontine Cerrè Scofield divorced him on grounds of desertion in 1883, and the same year Scofield married Hettie Hall von Wartz, with whom he eventually had a son.[12] … In 1895, Scofield was called as pastor of Moody's church, the Trinitarian Congregational Church of East Northfield, Massachusetts, and he also attempted with limited success to take charge of Moody's Northfield Bible Training School.[19] Although, in theory, Scofield returned to his Dallas pastorate in 1903, his projected reference Bible consumed much of his energy, and for much of the time before its publication, he was either unwell or in Europe. When the Scofield Reference Bible was published in 1909, it quickly became the most influential statement of dispensational premillennialism, and Scofield's popularity as Bible conference speaker increased as his health continued to decline. Royalties from the work were substantial, and Scofield held real estate in Dallas, Ashuelot, New Hampshire, and Douglaston, Long Island. Scofield also joined the prestigious Lotos Club.[20] During the early 1890s, Scofield began styling himself Rev. C. I. Scofield, D.D.; but there are no extant records of any academic institution having granted him the honorary Doctor of Divinity degree.[18] So – Scofield was a grafter, guilty of fraud, a drunkard who left his wife and children, tried to usurp control of the Moody Bible School in Mass, faked a Doctorate Degree, and personally became filthy rich with the sale of his Study Bible to have several estates around the country and was a member of one of the most decadent “rich-mans” clubs of the day. Scofield’s Commentary 1909: Lucifer: son of the morning Verses 12-14 (Isa_14:12-14) evidently refer to Satan, who, as prince of this world-system (see "World," (Joh_7:7). - (See Scofield) - (Rev_13:8) is the real unseen ruler of the successive world-powers. Tyre, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, etc. (see (Eze_28:12-14) Lucifer, "day-star," can be none other that Satan. This tremendous passage marks the beginning of sin in the universe. When Lucifer said, "I will," sin began. - (See Scofield) - (Rev_20:10). Before Scolfield, Christian commentary on Isaiah 14:12 went like this: Adam Clarke Commentary 1831O Lucifer, son of the morning - The Versions in general agree in this translation, and render הילל heilel as signifying Lucifer, Φωσφωρος, the morning star, whether Jupiter or Venus; as these are both bringers of the morning light, or morning stars, annually in their turn. And although the context speaks explicitly concerning Nebuchadnezzar, yet this has been, I know not why, applied to the chief of the fallen angels, who is most incongruously denominated Lucifer, (the bringer of light!) an epithet as common to him as those of Satan and Devil. That the Holy Spirit by his prophets should call this arch-enemy of God and man the light-bringer, would be strange indeed. But the truth is, the text speaks nothing at all concerning Satan nor his fall, nor the occasion of that fall, which many divines have with great confidence deduced from this text. O how necessary it is to understand the literal meaning of Scripture, that preposterous comments may be prevented! Besides, I doubt much whether our translation be correct. הילל heilel, which we translate Lucifer, comes from ילל yalal, yell, howl, or shriek, and should be translated, “Howl, son of the morning;” and so the Syriac has understood it; and for this meaning Michaelis contends: see his reasons in Parkhurst, under הלל halal. |
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Post by Dave on Jul 19, 2015 11:43:59 GMT -5
Scofield on Ezekiel 28Thou - Here (Eze_28:12-15), as in (Isa_14:12) the language goes beyond the king of Tyre to Satan, inspirer and unseen ruler of all such pomp and pride as that of Tyre. Instances of thus indirectly addressing Satan are: (Gen_3:14); (Gen_3:15); (Mat_16:23). The unfallen state of Satan is here described; his fall in (Isa_14:12-14). (See Scofield) - (Rev_20:10).
But there is more. The vision is not of Satan in his own person, but of Satan fulfilling himself in and through an earthly king who arrogates to himself divine honours, so that the prince of Tyrus foreshadows the Beast. (Dan_7:8); (Rev_19:20).According to Scofield – Ezek 28 is about Satan acting through a man – not about Satan himself. Is Scolfield confused? Is he speaking about a man – or the devil? According to Scofield Lucifer is the name of Satan – why doesn’t he make the connection here? Because they do not connect – because what all these Roman theologians miss is the: Trinity of EvilThis concept comes from Revelation 12 and 13, which describes three evil beings who will deceive many in the end times. These three beings are Satan, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet. (Read more: www.compellingtruth.org/unholy-trinity.html#ixzz3gLwkiFIO)The Trinity of the God Head = Father, Holy Ghost, and Son = 2 spirits and 1 physical man The Trinity of Evil = The Chief Archon (created without YHWY’s permission), Satan, and the False prophet The false prophet is a man. The Chief Archon – aka – The Dragon, the evil one, creator of the demons. Satan = the agent of the Chief Archon, lieutenant, the right-hand of evil. Gnostic commentary of Ezekiel 28During Creation, the feminine Holy Spirit made a creature on Her own – without permission. Because it was not sanctioned the creature created was ugly and gross with the face like a lion, so She hid her creation on a throne in a cloud of smoke and fire – that still exist In his own realm – he made his own servants (angels) – This is the Chief Archon and the other Archons – (remember – Archon is just a Greek word meaning ruler/ authority/ principality/ power). These Archon and their Chief reside in a clouded place of fire hidden from view – The Dragon and his demon then: The Nag Hammadi Library
The Gospel of the Egyptians
Translated by Alexander Bohlig and Frederik Wisse After five thousand years, the great light Eleleth spoke: "Let someone reign over the chaos and Hades." And there appeared a cloud whose name is hylic Sophia [...] She looked out on the parts of the chaos, her face being like [...] in her form [...] blood. And the great angel Gamaliel spoke to the great Gabriel, the minister of the great light Oroiael; he said, "Let an angel come forth, in order that he may reign over the chaos and Hades." Then the cloud, being agreeable, came forth in the two monads, each one of which had light. [...] the throne, which she had placed in the cloud above. Then Sakla, the great angel, saw the great demon who is with him, Nebruel. And they became together a begetting spirit of the earth. They begot assisting angels. Sakla said to the great demon Nebruel, "Let the twelve aeons come into being in the [...] aeon, worlds [...]." [...] the great angel Sakla said by the will of the Autogenes, "There shall be the [...] of the number of seven [...]." And he said to the great angels, "Go and let each of you reign over his world." Each one of these twelve angels went forth. The first angel is Athoth. He is the one whom the great generations of men call [...]. The second is Harmas, who is the eye of the fire. The third is Galila. The fourth is Yobel. The fifth is Adonaios, who is called 'Sabaoth'. The sixth is Cain, whom the great generations of men call the sun. The seventh is Abel; the eighth Akiressina; the ninth Yubel. The tenth is Harmupiael. The eleventh is Archir-Adonin. The twelfth is Belias. These are the ones who preside over Hades and the chaos.There is a lot of strange vocabulary here – but the point is clear – someone had to rule over the chaos in Hades – someone had to keep the Chief Archon in check. Gnostic literature says – that a Cherub volunteered for the job – The Angel Sakla Hebrew cosmology – God is androgynous (neither male or female), the Messiah will be male, and the Holy Spirit is female (Shekinah) Roman cosmology – God is male. Jesus is male. But the Holy Spirit has no gender. There is a devil, but God didn’t create it. This entity is called by all the names – Beast, Dragon, Devil, Satan, Evil One – all the same guy Gnostic cosmology - God is androgynous, Christ is male, and the female Holy Spirit created the Chief Archon, who in turn created demons (Archons), but to keep the chaos in check – Sakla volunteered to rule over Hades. It was he that became corrupt. It was he that spoke to Eve in Gen 3:15. It was he that tempted Christ. Satan – this word has been miss-used for so long it just causes confusion every time it is used. I can be your accuser. You can be my accuser, Just as Peter as the accuser for Christ. The accuser from the Chief Archon is also called Satan because this is his job – he accuses.   On the issue of EVIL and femininity - Roman cosmology is edited and abridged - incomplete
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Post by Dave on Jul 19, 2015 12:11:55 GMT -5
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. ( From where then did this wickedness come , a Perfect being simply cannot become wicked that is an oxymoron, perfect/evil?) ... Contrasting what is said about Lucifer and the formally perfect being in Ezekiel 28 (Who I also assume is also referring to Lucifer). Both were perfect and then fell due to some temptation. My problem with that a perfect being, would remain perfect, unless he was informed from an outside source that he could become even greater. Who then was this outside source that tempted Lucifer? What do you mean by "perfect"? If a created being did not have the option to sin, how could it be perfect? Without the option - it would be a perfect robot. We were all created perfect - we are all born perfect - it is the exercise of our free will to loose this perfection Therefore - angels have free will - just as you and I have |
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Post by Dave on Jul 19, 2015 12:38:18 GMT -5
What possible use could evil be to god? The Gnostic answer: It is true that scripture says that God does not do the testing of humanity Himself. However, we are also told that this is exactly the role of the adversary, known as Satan. Remember, Prov. 16:4 Jehovah hath made everything for its own end; Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. The Nag Hammadi Library
The Hypostasis of the Archons
The Reality of the Rulers
Translated by Willis Barnstone and Marvin Meyer “… Now all these things came to pass by the will of the father of the entirety … it was by the will of the father of the entirety that they all came into being - after the pattern of all the things above - so that the sum of chaos might be attained.”The Nag Hammadi Library
Authoritative Teaching
Translated by George W. MacRae He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists |
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Post by Dave on Jul 19, 2015 12:58:05 GMT -5
I have shared a lot of non-Roman vocabulary here – these are just words do not allow the semantics of the vocabulary to cloud the information presented. I have used the feminine aspect of the God Head here and claim it was She that made the Chief Archon. Rome
Trinity = Male Father, Male Son, androgynous Holy Spirit
Male dominated society – a man’s club
Women are not allowed to dress fancy or speak in church. If they have a question, ask their husbands at home alone.
This doctrine has fractured the Roman church into sub-groups that allow female pastors.
Many issues – still not resolved
| Gnostic
In ancient times, Gods were men, but their thoughts were feminine.
Trinity = Androgynous Father/Creator, Male Son, Female Holy Spirit (the thought of God)
(The Hebrews also call the Holy Spirit, female, Shekinah)
Women are under the subjection of men – until, they become as a man (Gospel of Thomas: 114)
I believe this to mean that once they become self-determining their salvation is also on their shoulders only.
No Issues – except a disagreement with Rome
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Post by Alan McDougall on Jul 23, 2015 5:09:49 GMT -5
I have often speculated that the Holy Spirit aspect of the Godhead might be female? I of course do not mean female in the sense of a female biological organism like a human woman.
In my opinion the holy spirit does many things that are female or motherly in aspect.
The holy spirit plays many roles. you can read about some of them in these passages: John 14:15-27, John 16:5-15, Romans 8:1-17, Galatians 5:16-26.
In John 14, for example, Jesus says the holy spirit will comfort us when we're hurting. "I will not leave you as orphans," Jesus says (14:18), promising that the spirit will bring us peace (14:27).
Jesus also says the spirit will help us recall teach the things we've learned about God (14:26)—which also means the spirit will help us when we tell others about our faith.
In John 16, Jesus refers to the spirit as a "counsellor" who will guide us in our everyday lives. one way he (maybe she) will do guide us is by convicting us of sin (16:8). and this is really a good thing: God wants us to get rid of the things that displease him, and the only way to identify those things is to be convicted by the spirit. the spirit works through our conscience to make us aware of sin in our lives.
Romans 8 tells us the spirit will help us stop sinning and do the things that please God. a verse later in that chapter also tells us that the spirit helps us pray (8:26). we've all gone to God and said, "lord, I'm just not sure how to pray or what to say." the holy spirit helps us in those times, and actually intercedes for us, saying the prayers for us.
How can you tell if you're being led by the spirit? by the "fruit" of your life—your attitudes and actions. Galatians 5:22-23 says, "the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." are these things evident in your life? two verses later, it says, "since we live by the spirit, let us keep instep with the spirit."
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Post by Dave on Jul 28, 2015 16:56:30 GMT -5
I have often speculated that the Holy Spirit aspect of the Godhead might be female? I of course do not mean female in the sense of a female biological organism like a human woman. In my opinion the holy spirit does many things that are female or motherly in aspect. I have the perfect answer --
Follow me to a different thread -- [/quote] Gnostic literature is criticized for its reference to - The Goddess of Wisdom - The Goddess Sophia -- PAGAN Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/353/feminine-holy-spirit#ixzz3hE400dDV |
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Post by Dave on Jul 28, 2015 17:36:14 GMT -5
Romans 8 tells us the spirit will help us stop sinning and do the things that please God. a verse later in that chapter also tells us that the spirit helps us pray (8:26). we've all gone to God and said, "lord, I'm just not sure how to pray or what to say." the holy spirit helps us in those times, and actually intercedes for us, saying the prayers for us. How can you tell if you're being led by the spirit? by the "fruit" of your life—your attitudes and actions. Galatians 5:22-23 says, "the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." are these things evident in your life? two verses later, it says, "since we live by the spirit, let us keep instep with the spirit." Roman's 8 - what an optimistic view - and it is this view that has ultimately (in my personal opinion) that has harmed the Christian faith more than any other mythology. Feel Good Christianity preaches an empty message. People come into a Roman church looking for help - looking for pasters - and it is usually when they have lost hope and need spiritual inspiration. I am not saying that I doubt the reality of Roman's 8, and God can intervene in any form He wants in any situation He wants. BUT - Christendom passes it out like candy. It has become the pat answer from all pasters as they try yo sooth the agony of their flocks. Yet, whatever brought them into that church continued to plague until complete. The Feel Good Christian message didn't work. People pray their hearts out - yet - someone still dies and life continues to "SUCK" Fruits of the spirit - Galatians 5:22-23 says, "the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." are these things evident in your life? BY who's measure  Love - am I suppose to kiss you on the lips -- or - am I suppose to worry about your salvation enough to tell you about Christ? peace - with my neighbor and my community -- or - with God kindness and goodness - must I financially support ever "Christian" ministry that comes along. Or this impact the way in which I witness about Christ with my teachings and my life. (Lifesong - Casting Crowns - great song) gentleness and self-control - even Jesus kicked over the money changers tables in the Temple's courtyard faithfulness - in all things especially to the Lord. patience - I doubt this is true enough, but the problem is that Jesus told his disciples to preach the Gospel, but if the people didn't want to hears it - they were to wipe this mud off there feet and leave. In my society, my impatience grows with those around me that continue the deny Scripture. Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. are these things evident in your life? - BY who's measure |
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