Gnostic Definition

[Deleted]

So, I was looking for a more detailed definition of the Gnostic faith based on a YouTube video from gnosticradio.org that indicated Gnosism is, among other things, "wisdom of all the world's great religions". This concept personally appeals to me. In my search I came across gnosis.org and a list of characteristics of the Gnostic faith.

Could anyone rephrase the second of these two particular characteristics, especially the words revelatory experience and modification of the sensate being? Perhaps an example could be given?
 
Before the awakening, men undergo troubled dreams.

Man does not attain the knowledge that awakens him from these dreams by cognition but through revelatory experience, and this knowledge is not information but a modification of the sensate being.

Also, the following characteristic piqued my interest.

Since the effort is to restore the wholeness and unity of the Godhead, active rebellion against the moral law of the Old Testament is enjoined upon every man.

I wonder what "active rebellion" specifically indicates and what is the threat of the Old Testament to the Godhead that requires rebellion?

Any thoughts or suggested reference material would be appreciated.

[Dave]

Today there are two organized Gnostic Churches.

Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica (E.G.C.), or the Gnostic Catholic Church, is an international organization devoted to promoting the Law of Thelema, which is "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will."11 This group does not have any Christian or Roman Catholic beliefs. It is a philosophical, mystical, and religious system developed by Aleister Crowley, the author of the Satanic Bible. The name of the religious system was chosen as an affront, or deliberate blasphemy, of, or against, Roman Catholic Christendom. They even call their services a Gnostic Mass, a eucharistic ritual written by Crowley in 1913.12, 13, 14

The Ecclesia Gnostica, Latin for The Church of Gnosis or The Gnostic Church, is centered in Los Angeles, California with satellite churches open in Seattle, Washington; Portland, Oregon; Salt Lake City, Utah; Sedona, Arizona; and Oslo, Norway. The church and its affiliate, the Gnostic Society, attempts to make the philosophy and practice of Gnosticism available to the world.15 I am not a formal member of The Ecclesia Gnostica and I have never attended any of their services. Although, while I was working in the state of Washington, I did seriously consider visiting their assembly in Seattle; primarily to visit their library because I do make much use of the literature made available by the Gnostic Society.

www.gnosis.org

I consider myself a Gnostic Christian. I make this claim not in support of the Ecclesia Gnostica Church per se, but to separate myself away from being seen as either a Roman Catholic or Protestant.

As a father and the leader of my household, I endeavor to take my two small children to a Sunday School group regularly. Without allegiance to any particular group and working as a traveling Laboratory Clinician, sometimes we attend a different Sunday School every Sunday. Over the past four years my family has traveled through 18 states and we have visited too many churches to count accurately. My purpose is twofold, first I want to expose my children to as much Judeo-Christian heritage as possible, and secondly it is important for me to demonstrate to them that no particular group has greater access to the Lord.

Inevitably, as I sit through an adult class, someone eventually asks for my opinion, which I am more than happy to share. However, before I speak to the point, I make it very clear that I am neither a Catholic nor a Protestant. So, what type of a Christian can I be? Instead of trying to explain myself in detail, I just claim to be a Gnostic Christian. No one there understands what I mean by that statement, but it usually ends the inquiry.

What do I mean by Gnostic - I am a Christian that is not limited to the Rome only version of events or their 'one book' theology. I find the Roman 'FEEL GOOD' Christianity message misleading and prefer the Gnostic concept of the Great Contest. There are approximately 35 different "Books" mentioned within Rome's 'one book,' but yet, if I quote from any of those sources, I am told that those books are apocryphal and I should really pay them any attention - yet they are credible enough to find mention within formal scripture - example: The Book of Jasher, mentioned in Joshua and 2nd Samuel.

For me - Gnostic / Gnosis is just the serious scrutiny of text outside of Rome's 'one book.' To that I include text books from Chemistry and Physics as well

I am especially drawn to the Apocryphal writings of John, James, Paul, Peter, and Philip -

The acceptance or endorsement of all world religions?

I need to clarify a point here - The Supreme God and Creator of the universe is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; who came to earth as Christ.

Are there "other gods" - absolutely! Which give rise to other religions - absolutely! - but these are all created beings not the Creator. Therefore much of it is simply the worship of creation over the Creator.

This is a major component of Gnostic theology. The Archon (just another word for the angels of the devil) are a very real, active, and important player in the Great Contest.

[Dave]

revelatory experience and modification of the sensate being?

I have never heard this phrase before - but I totally agree

Faith and understanding does not come by cognitive recognition, but by spiritual revelation. There is great difference between knowing a thing to be true and believing it to be true.

We are told over and over again that The Holy Spirit teaches us and this is why apocryphal text don'y scare me. Just as with formal scripture, we read it, discuss it, and pray about it - the Holy Spirit will let us know if the information is meaningful.

Example - as I read the Gospel of Philip or the Aprocryphon of James I am overwhelmed at the information. It is so different, yet, it fits and it makes sense in some way. However, I have never finished the Gospel of Judas. I cannot read 4 pages without rejecting most everything I read.

[Dave]

Since the effort is to restore the wholeness and unity of the Godhead, active rebellion against the moral law of the Old Testament is enjoined upon every man.

I wonder what "active rebellion" specifically indicates and what is the threat of the Old Testament to the Godhead that requires rebellion?

The effort is to restore the Godhead???

I am afraid I don't quite follow this one - where is this from?

[Richard]

The Hebrew OT is a book of Dos and Don'ts.

Almost inseparable from a pagan religion, but this is the Old Law. Christ came to fulfill that old law, cancel that old law, overwrite that old law. Not with a different law, but simply moving the letter of the law from the book to your heart.

Christians do not follow the law.

We live the law.

[Dave]

I get ya Richard.

We have internalized the law. We do not have to check a rule book to determine what is appropriate. All we have to do is pray about it and the law will be reveled within us.

[Alan McDougall]

Jun 22, 2014 10:04:29 GMT -5 Dave said:

I get ya Richard.

We have internalized the law. We do not have to check a rule book to determine what is appropriate. All we have to do is pray about it and the law will be reveled within us.

Christ Jesus took the Law of the entire Tanakh on his own shoulders and fulfilled it fully on our behalf during his perfect righteous life.

John the Baptist said of Him "Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world"  This sacrifice of Jesus took away all sin, unlike just covering the sin for a while like it in the Tanakh. 

Jesus said a new commandment I give to you, "that you love God with all your mind all your soul and love your neighbor as you love yourself" By this you fulfill all the commandments of the law and the prophets.

It is impossible to obey exactly what Jesus said above and continue with a deliberate life of sin!

Sin = Disobedience to what God says you are not permitted to do?

By the way I am just quoting scripture from memory, so it might not be correct, word for word as reflected in the bible!

Alan

[Dave]

The Law

Mat 5:18 (YLT) for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass.

Mat 5:18 (ASV) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

Luk 16:17 (ASV) But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tittle of the law to fall.

Luk 16:17 (YLT) and it is easier to the heaven and the earth to pass away, than of the law one tittle to fall.

There are so many people in the world that will argue that the LAW - the written law of the OT - has not passed away - cannot pass away - must be observed.

What say you?

[Alan McDougall]

Jun 7, 2015 12:42:56 GMT -5 Dave said:

The Law

Mat 5:18 (YLT) for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass.

Mat 5:18 (ASV) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

Luk 16:17 (ASV) But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tittle of the law to fall.

Luk 16:17 (YLT) and it is easier to the heaven and the earth to pass away, than of the law one tittle to fall.

There are so many people in the world that will argue that the LAW - the written law of the OT - has not passed away - cannot pass away - must be observed.

What say you?

Jesus was talking to the Jews, they are eternally under God's Law. There are 602 laws in the Hebrew Scriptures and it is impossible for any fallible human, to obey each and everyone of those 602 for even one hour, let alone their whole lives on earth

For Jews to obtain salvation and entry into the Kingdom of God the minimum requirement was that they obey, each and every law written down in their Torah, each and every moment, for all of their earthly mortal lives. An obvious impossibility!

In God's  eyes, if you have disobeyed even one single law you have disobeyed them all, That is why the Father God sent Jesus to the earth so that he could obey, in proxy fulfill and obey all the laws in the Torah into perfect totality of his perfect life on earth.

Mat 5:18 (ASV) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.  Here Jesus was referring to himself, not the Jews or the Gentiles, because it was very obvious, to God and man, that no mortal human could obey all the laws, every day of every moment, over the full period of their mortal lives, as set out in "Mat 5:18 Jesus is referring to himself"

Jesus freed the Gentiles, (And Jews) who followed and believed in him from the curse of the Law by his crucifixion. The other Jews who rejected him remain under all 602 laws.God does not go back,willy- nilly and change his laws, like we very fallible human do all the time.

God works very differently with the Jews than the gentiles.

Jesus was their Mashiach, which should have been very obvious to the learned pharisees. He was prophesied to come first as a suffering Mashiach many times in the Hebrew Scriptures as well as coming again as a mighty warrior King

[Dave]

Jun 8, 2015 15:48:42 GMT -5 Alan McDougall said:

Mat 5:18 (ASV) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.  Here Jesus was referring to himself, not the Jews or the Gentiles, because it was very obvious, to God and man, that no mortal human could obey all the laws, every day of every moment, over the full period of their mortal lives, as set out in "Mat 5:18 Jesus is referring to himself"

Jesus freed the Gentiles, (And Jews) who followed and believed in him from the curse of the Law by his crucifixion. The other Jews who rejected him remain under all 602 laws.God does not go back,willy- nilly and change his laws, like we very fallible human do all the time.

God works very differently with the Jews than the gentiles.

Jesus was their Mashiach, which should have been very obvious to the learned pharisees. He was prophesied to come first as a suffering Mashiach many times in the Hebrew Scriptures as well as coming again as a mighty warrior King

Remember - this is a discussion - I am a student of your work and this statement of yours is Roman propaganda - lets study this - references

Mat 5:18 (ASV) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

Point - you say - H&E = Jesus himself

Teach me. I have studies this for years. This is the first time I heard your idea

Most commentaries and books go:

“Heaven and Earth” has at least 3 different meanings within scripture

Physical Earth and Spiritual Heaven
The old empire of Babylon Isa 13:13, 19:22
The Temple Mount

The outer area = Earth - when the people entered
The inner sanctuary = heaven - God and Arron only
The temple was symbolic of heaven on earth or God on earth

John Noe’s argument is this: When Christ spoke the words of Mat 5:18, 24:35; and Luke 16:17, 21:33;

Christ was not speaking about the physical earth because He would be contradicting Scripture
Isaiah 45:17 …world without end
Ephesians 3:21… world without end
Psalms 104:5… the earth, that it should not be removed forever.
Psalms 119:90 … the earth endures forever

Christ could not be referring to the old Babylonian Empire
because it had already passed away

Which only leaves – Heaven and Earth - the Old Covenant, the Temple,
Isa 1:2, 51:13-16, Deut. 32:1-43

John Noe (author/public speaker) then tries his hardest to make the point that Jesus was standing on the Mount of Olives when he spoke the words of Mat 5:18, 24:35; and Luke 16:17, 21:33, which is just a short distance across the Kidron Valley from the Temple Mount.

The Temple would have been in full view of the crowd.
Everyone in the crowd would have understood the Phrase “Heaven and Earth” to be the Temple
(especially if Jesus gestured in that direction)
and “… it is an historical fact that everything from the old covenant passed away/disappeared – the Temple, animal sacrifices, the priesthood, and the genealogies … except the Word of God.” John Noe, Unraveling the End, pg 168

Just something to Ponder

Read more: ancient-hebrew.proboards.com/thread/3390/heaven-earth#ixzz3cVl5QjIs

Just a different perspective - but - it makes a world of difference

This passage as well as the stupid Roman Fig Tree causes division
It is not God plan for the Jews and then God's plan for the gentiles
It is not two different stories - there can only be one primal theology

IF Mat 5:18 = the Temple, the building, symbolic H&E in the common understanding of the people upon the Mount of Olives - in full view - across the plain of Kidron - especially if Jesus gestured in that direction (unknown)

#1 - the temple fell - passed away in 70AD
The Law - written Law - Old Covenant - also passed away

#2 - There is only one plan - 1st to Abram - then to his promise that would bless the entire world = Jesus Christ the Messiah

#3 - all prophesy fulfilled - H&E passed away - the old Covenant fulfilled - 70AD - the Hebrew story is complete - thee is no more Jewish story - the promised land should actually be Christian

#4 - all this crap about 1948 being the Fig Tree Blooming - Israel became a Nation again - the countdown to the end of days has begun - is a Roman myth

Mark 11:12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry: 13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. 14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.

What does this mean?

If this means Israel then Israel's function, purpose, blessing to the world, reason to exist ended

Jesus was the Messiah - many Jews saw that - there were many messianic Jewish converts
actually this is the base reason there was so much civil unrest in Israel post Jesus
so much unrest that cult retreated to the Mtn of Kumran - Dead Sea Scrolls
so much unrest that cults escaped into Egypt
It was the survivors of Rome's 70AD slaughter of 2 million - that became Roman Christians
and that's OK - but it is this group that becomes usurped by the beast we know as Rome

New Covenant - Gospel

The Jews that accepted the Messiah are Christian
The Jews that didn't - ?? - a place maybe, but definitely secondary - and nothing to do with the political construct of Israel the country because that began in 1917 with the Belford Deceleration in London England

there are not two stories - only one
The people of the Nations as they call themselves- missed the point - missed the boat
All things point to Christ - even Islam

The real Fig Tree - different discussion

[Alan McDougall]

The laws of the Torah was given by Almighty God specifically to the Hebrew people and later to the Jews who emerged from the Hebrew people. Of course any Jew who accepted him and shared in the salvation he brought to all of mankind.

Almost the entire Bible is really a story about the Jewish people's relationship with the Almighty. A sort of test case for the rest of humanity. We gentiles (Assuming you are one like me) only came into the sarga much later, when God sent his son to earth to save us all from ourselves.

Of course if one looks at the Ten-Commandments, they carry a perfect moral code, way of life for any decent person to follow. Humans have to be forced by other humans, using human laws in an attempt to get people to obey and thus live a decent moral life, that does not hurt anyone else in the process.

What Jesus brought to mankind, was the commandments, to love God and to love others as you love yourself. It is impossible to love other people if you do not love yourself.

Nowhere in the 602 laws of the Torah do we find a commandment to love your fellow human. The Old Testament is a God of righteous wrath. God has many attributes and it is only in the New Testament that we see his mercy and love for us in truth and in life and in death.

If Jesus was speaking to all of mankind for all of time, that every last law would have to be obeyed to the exactitude of the letter, then sadly the entire human race is damned forever.

Why would Jesus give a command that he knew was impossible to obey, Only He Jesus the son of God was perfect to obey the whole of the law down to the last minute tittle if you like.

Name Just one human in all of history that has obeyed just the Ten-Commandment every day from the time he was a child of understanding until his death.

Example if we just lie to ourselves, or look on a woman in lust, even in the privacy of our minds and thoughts, we have disobeyed God's Holy Laws God requires perfection, not part perfection, thus if you have disobeyed even one law within the recesses  of your mind, you have disobeyed them all, in the eyes of a Perfect Holy Righteous Infinite Almighty God.

You might then ask me what about some people that God obviously loved deeply in the Hebrew Scriptures , such as the sinner, murderer and adulterer King David ?

 In my opinion God does not give special dispensation to one person and hold it back for another. Like the rest of humanity King David will or has been brought to the Lord Jesus Christ in the afterlife, to accept him or reject him just like the rest of us did during our mortal lives on planet earth.

It is obvious to me, that there are special cases of God forgiveness for people that have died and gone into the afterlife, example.

Jesus talking about the unforgivable sin. He said there is a sin for which there is no forgiveness, in this life or in the next life, which is the afterlife. Thus other than the unforgivable sin, there is a possibility of forgiveness, through Jesus in the Afterlife 

Thus Jesus's Statement "That no man comes to the Father other than by me" is not violated and remains true!
 

[Dave]

Alan

Thank you my friend – on several points you and I do seem to correlate
There are some points we do not – of course – mandatory – inevitable

on those points – I open a debate – discussion – study (more in depth)
If my views are in error – I beg someone to teach me

This is why I like calling it cosmology rather than theology
Cosmology just seems my flexible – not as absolute
I can be wrong – cuz I probably am – cuz I just a man

The laws of the Torah was given by Almighty God specifically to the Hebrew people and later to the Jews who emerged from the Hebrew people. Of course any Jew who accepted him and shared in the salvation he brought to all of mankind.

This is why an online forum is so valuable
When is the last time you engage another this deeply on this subject?
I have a hard time finding people willing or able
We both grew up in Western Tradition Christendom – yet differently
different culture, education, histories – yet here we are

“and later to the Jews who emerged from the Hebrew people”

What an interesting expression – you are right of course
FYI – if you were speaking on a Hebrew Forum they would say
Jew = members of the tribe of Judah
The people of Israel = the People of the Nation – this is why the academs speak of the ahl
ahl – followers of the Ancient Hebrew Language (regardless of birth right)
agl – Ancient Greek Language = NT – Jesus

God’s promise was to the “children of Abraham”
Christendom says – Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob – Jesus
From current events and argument could be made for Isaac and Ishmael
Gen 25 tells us Abraham had 5 sons
and why does everyone forget about Esau?

also the promised land – is not modern day Israel – but all the land to the Euphrates

You are correct the people who claim the blessing is a small group within the whole of the blessing

Almost the entire Bible is really a story about the Jewish people's relationship with the Almighty. A sort of test case for the rest of humanity. We gentiles (Assuming you are one like me) only came into the sarga much later, when God sent his son to earth to save us all from ourselves.

Here again is another of my favorite dissection points -- Christendom’s tunnel vision

God’s plan was/is a global plan
The ahl/agl are just the theological connection –evidence from the outside
It is too arrgant to think it was all about just Moses, Just Jesus, just Rome, just ahl
Am I diminishing Jesus position or role – NO – as a Trinity believer He equal to the God head
As a Gnostic – I am open to theme upon a theme – just as scripture itself has different layers of meaning

If we say He is in control – who can His imprint not be felt on the other side of the globe?
What was happening in the cultures of the ahl – all multiple “other god” believers
Was it any different anywhere on the globe – all God’s plan

If the God’s of the American Indians or Amazon savage are mythical / imaginary then what about the 35 “other gods” Israel had to deal with in the ahl? Also mythical / imaginary?

Jesus

Critics can easily point out – not as a hoax – but just a repeated ancient theme

Dec 25, Christmas, Easter Sunday, the Roman calendar, 3 days and nights, all misrepresented in a form of plausible deniability – and this has been the function of Rome/Christendom/Romanology

Houras was the first, Mithras was the 4th, and Jesus was the 5th who
were born of a virgin
preached at 12
claimed to be the son of God
died upon a tree
and was resurrected

It would be easy to dismiss this as all myth – perhaps even an elaborate conspiracy
but all this was written into the public consciousness >500 years before Christ

There is not a pastor or priest from Christendom that can have the discussion
As a Gnostic I must acknowledge that – it exist
does this diminish Christ – No – how could it

I do not find it surprising at all that the global consciousness was already primed for the reality of Christ
What more import theological message is there to the global population – to prime the people’s consciousness for the truth only increases their individual responsibility to believe – not to diminish the fact

500 year cycles

2000AD Science is Master and God is a myth
1500AD – Science and Rome collide
1000AD – Crusaids – the Islam is empowered
500AD – Romanolgy has completely replace Christianity – with exception
0 – Christ
500BC – the ahl stops, Socrates is willing to die in open form peacefully to prove his faith is a spiritual afterlife – changing forever Hellenistic metaphysics, An Iranian Mystic named Zoroaster was staring into a flame and received a revelation – there is only one God – and in all thing you have the choice – do what is right or not

This is the religion of Persia and King Cyrus in Isaiah – the Magi

Christendom will say – myth – legend – fable – don’t pay it any attention (key your eyes focused upon Rome) --- yet -- every nativity scene has 3 Magi?

Either the Magi validate Christ - or it is a myth and fable - which is it?

During first century Roman Empire’s faith was a mix of Zoroasterism and Mithraism

Coincidence? Galactic anomaly? Or all part of the plan?

[Dave]

What Jesus brought to mankind, was the commandments, to love God and to love others as you love yourself. It is impossible to love other people if you do not love yourself.

Nowhere in the 602 laws of the Torah do we find a commandment to love your fellow human.

OK – I gat ya – BUT
Jesus never said love other as you love yourself – but love other as He has loved us

Love - ? what does this mean? Be nice? Give them your $$$? – Or witness the Gospel to them and let them go?

If Jesus was speaking to all of mankind for all of time, that every last law would have to be obeyed to the exactitude of the letter, then sadly the entire human race is damned forever.

Why would Jesus give a command that he knew was impossible to obey,

Isn’t this the point! We cannot obey – as animals – we cannot – animal is not getting into the Kingdom
ahl says = from YHWY we came – and to Him we return
we wer born here into this 3D physicality – one day we will all be reborn back into His presence
Jesus says we must be born again – this isn’t physical – it is spiritual
Those who achieve this in some way before death – I applaud
One day we all get the experience
We will all enter the Kingdom of heaven – the question is one of locality

Christian speak of earning rewards in heaven like frequent flyer miles
are the better off than someone else there – how about the Saints and the Elect
are we at the right hand? where are we – where do we fit in – this is the question
as a multidimensionalist I am open to multiple “other realities” “other localities”
even Christian have heaven and hell – Catholics add purgatory
is there a difference between hades and Tartarus
many localities – Christendom just wont admit it

Example if we just lie to ourselves, or look on a woman in lust, even in the privacy of our minds and thoughts, we have disobeyed God's Holy Laws God requires perfection

So what is a red blooded American male full of manic energy to do? Believe and feel guilt for who I am – spend all my prayers in apology? Put God down to be normal, but feel even less about your self-esteem for doing so. Try to be a good Christian knowing that I do not walk the talk I speak. Work harder for the community church. Apologies for my pastor and the way I feel –

I would be a Monk if I could – I am alone with my keyboard praising my Creator right now. Every OCD uses substitution techniques tp direct their manic energy in a health direction. This is why all Bible are at least a miilon pages long and always in confusing vocabulary – it has my attention

What was once a pox fueled my direction

Jesus talking about the unforgivable sin.

Here I am with a ministry – to myself mostly – nonetheless I preach my preach whenever given opportunity – I cannot help myself – it is Who I am

False prophets – I am so aware of this particular clause of the Law
I do not know any answers – I am just here to discuss it in fellowship

Thus Jesus's Statement "That no man comes to the Father other than by me" is not violated and remains true!

See – no matter how you slice and dice it it still returns to CHRIST

[Richard]

Get real. Dave a Monk? Dave spending his time in silence?

If you go Dave, it better just be a visit. Just how long would it take you to explode and want to witness to everyone?

[Dave]

Bla bla bla - just what are you trying to say - bla bla bla