The Need for Oppresion

[unknown]

Throughout human history, and especially in the modern era, there has been a cry emanating from individuals. A cry for validation and freedom. Many people feel they deserve free choice...feel they are somehow not entities contingent of the societies in which they live. I believe we need to be controlled, and deserve both peace and oppression.

Some people think there is something like the New World Order out there somewhere, nefariously controlling everything, evilly hatching schemes and presumably laughing in a disconcerting way. It seems doubtful that such things exist, yet if they did, why would it not be preferable to any alternative?

What is freedom other than a vain projection of the ego?...why should we be free to make self-directed choices? Humans always tend toward violence...except in society. Except in situations where the state governs them. People have always created societies...systems of control. We need them and love them.

Humans want to be controlled. This is evident is all forms of interaction. Freedom, even if it was achievable, would not be beneficial to anything other than emotional validation. Given that society is a fundamentally regulatory force, it would be ridiculous to expect it foster anything approaching free thought, free choice, or even non-regulated action. Socialist-Totalitarian governments understood this and simply controlled people (in many cases physically); this turned out to be unsustainable. Capitalist-Democratic governments, too, seem to understand this, but have chosen a system of rhetoric which creates the illusion of freedom, although in many cases, the freedom they present are either completely hypothetical or completely ancillary. This is achieved through such varied approaches as political recuperation (this is often attained through mass media) and political eloquence to name but a few.

Such approaches may seem more efficient in terms of social control (the idea in capitalist democracies seems to be one of making people want believe the illusion of power instead of forcing them to simply adhere to it), yet the free market seems to have a way of injecting many negative unintended emergent properties into both society and the non-human world, such as mental health problems and environmental degradation. If one allows themself to view the situation from a position of non biased observation, they will see the United States stands at constant odds with it's own ideology; adherence to the value of the individual puts the goals of the government at odds with the purpose of the society itself...the rhetoric of freedom reduces the efficacy of the group it seeks to free. In a general sense, government is an inhibitory force designed to control humans' desires. It seems illogical to assume that self-directed determinism would result in sustainable modalities of interaction.

Given that people are so easily swayed by images, so easily controlled by rhetoric, yet so unable to act using foresight, would it not be better to create a synthesis of socialist ideals and capitalist control mechanisms? To manipulate society, not in an underhanded way (as the capitalist democracies have tried), or a physically abusive way (as the totalitarian governments have tried), but overtly and transparently? Why not simply put in place a technocratic leadership comprised of psychologists, linguists, environmental scientists, and other such scientifically-driven individuals to decide what is best for what both the bourgeoisie, and the proletariat, and the non-human environment? A system in which the populace understands (is conditioned to understand) the necessity of their own regulation.

A technocratic leadership that understands the free interplay of signs and signals need not be hampered with such ideas as ethics or morality. Such leaders would be the designators of these ideals (right and wrong), and therefore could only pursue an ethical course. The populace of such a society would understand through both conditioning and education the need for their control, and they would reap the benefits. Necessities could be met and the enjoyment of pursuit of goals and recreation could be preserved given the psyche was regulated in appropriate ways.

The hubris of humanity seems always to be the limiting factor of society, which is perhaps one reason even well-meaning communists created failed states. The leaders of governments are put in place by a fundamentally emotionally-driven populace, and therefor make decisions based on egotistical desires. This is why we must rely on the clinical logic of psychological manipulation to influence constituents of society to put in place the correct leaders: leaders who know that power structures are but social constructions that fulfill a useful purpose. Leaders who can control a populace not through such fanciful ideals as democracy or violence, but rather through benevolent manipulation.

...

I, for one, welcome the World Order! I welcome a watchful government and a logical control in the individual! Surely we should give up our egoistical dreams and embrace ethical living.

[Dave]

Wow – a lot here. First let me say that the focus of the forum is theological not political. Yet, in the day and age when the push for a New World Order, as in one world government over nationalism, is seemingly obvious in the secular realm, it becomes impossible to separate out the obvious theological implications of prophesy.

Validation and freedom – Validation is a necessary component of self-esteem. Quality of self-esteem correlates with the feeling of personal contentment and happiness. The point I will make is to the matter of where that validation comes from. If we are dependent upon society’s validation, as in recognition or fame, it is a fleeting goal. The preverbal 15 minutes does not a life time validate. If your validation is dependent upon how you stand in relation to your higher power, then your self-esteem is meaningful and unshakeable. They say character is what you are alone in the dark. If inside you know you are a lying bastard , then no amount of social validation will change the way you feel about yourself.

Years ago I wrote: “The question for me is not whether there is a God and an afterlife! The question, for me as a man, is if there is a God and an afterlife, and I do eventually meet my maker; will I be able to look Him straight in the eye and shake His hand, or will I be ashamed and embarrassed for who I really am?”

Freedom, freedom of choice – also necessary for the fulfillment of personal self-worth and individual happiness. Be it illusion or not, we should each be allowed to live up to our maximum mental potential. Wouldn’t it have been a shame if Louie Pasture or Alexander Fleming were never allowed to peruse their educations?

This is exactly why Communism failed as proposed in both China and the USSR. Take away the incentive to succeed and you damage both moral and output. Many of their brightest thinkers left for a more free society, which only harmed the whole. This is exactly why we should we be free to make self-directed choices.

You said, I believe we need to be controlled, and deserve both peace and oppression. I guess I am not sure your point here. I suppose it depends on the degree of control. Control to the point that we are not allowed to live up to our maximum potential or denied the incentive to do so? People would only want to leave the system or be disgruntled within it.

Peace and opression On the surface this almost sounds like an oxymoron - but, I think you mean a sense of personal security - combined with an element of stress. It is a face that an individual does their best work when the pressure is on. However, if you negate personal creativity and expression through over-control and micro-managing you will not achieve the same quality of result.

You also said, Freedom, even if it was achievable, would not be beneficial to anything other than emotional validation. I think your forgetting creativity and progress. Personal freedom promote entrepreneurship and creativity. Again, why did post WWII scientist migrate to America by the thousands?

Some people think there is something like the New World Order out there somewhere, nefariously controlling everything, evilly hatching schemes and presumably laughing in a disconcerting way. It seems doubtful that such things exist, yet if they did, why would it not be preferable to any alternative?

“A relatively small group of companies, mainly banks, have a disproportionate power over the global economy.” - www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed--the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html#.Uo8N-8RQEdQ

Mayer Amschel Rothschild 1828 “Allow me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who writes the laws.”

"We shall have World Government, whether or not we like it. The only question is whether World Government will be achieved by conquest or consent." -- Statement made before the United States Senate on Feb. 7, 1950 by James Paul Warburg.

"The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise their power from behind the scenes." —Justice Felix Frankfurter, U.S. Supreme Court.

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the National auto determination practiced in past centuries"--David Rockefeller in an address to a Trilateral Commission meeting in June of 1991

OH – there is a push for a one world government and a global currency! Whether it is just a capitalist power struggle by the banking elite for something more evil in nature is the question. If it was just about the money and the prudent management of natural resources it might be tolerable. However, it has already proven itself an enemy of the individual. I write about the Rockefeller Empire and their grip on oil, pharmacology, orthodox medicine, and why people of today are pharmacological cash cows for the empire. ponderingconfusion.com/papers.php?id=orthodoxmed

I have worked in medicine for 22 years and my family will not get vaccinated, we try our best not to drink fluorinated water from public water supplies, and I can tell you that the slogan “better living through chemistry is a lie.

You said, that you, “… for one, welcome the World Order! (You) welcome a watchful government and a logical control in the individual! Surely we should give up our egoistical dreams and embrace ethical living.”

Evidently you think that your government is your friend and only has your best interest at heart. What do you say about all the American citizens that are unwillingly used as medical experiments? Little things like the U.S. military releasing mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects. Or that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, TX and Boca Raton, Fl and tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections. www.apfn.org/apfn/experiment.htm

In a totalitarian regime - who is there to protect, or at least stand up for, the victims of that regime?

Ethical living you say – the question has to be whose ethics. Under Sharia Law I can rape my 9 year old daughter and behead my wife. Are those your ethics? Take away the voice of democracy and those might be the ethics you may have to endure.

You say, “… the United States stands at constant odds with it's own ideology…” With that I absolutely agree. The US has been moving farther and farther away from the Constitution since 1913. On my FB page as people ask me to support our troops, I say, “If I do not support the wars my country continually fight, how can I support the men and women that agree to do the governments dirty work in exchange for a steady paying job.” Instead of supporting our troops, I feel sorry that they grew up in a country that promotes killing people as a gainful employment.

The systematic destruction of the founding values of America is just further evidence of the conspiracy to move the world’s population toward a New World Order.

You said, “Surely we should give up our egoistical dreams and embrace ethical living.” I couldn't agree more – if – those ethics are of Judeo-Christian construct. All of the control you say people need is correct about a Godless society. But the problem with your premise is that if people don’t hold those ethics on personal bases, on theological bases, then legislating them will not work. Prohibition did not work for booze or marijuana. Gun control does not work. Make a prohibition against greed, lust, or injustice and just see how effective it is.

You said, “Humans always tend toward violence...except in society. “ – I disagree totally. Even in society people trend toward violence. Only with theology do you generate individuals like St, Francis of Assisi or Mother Teresa.

[Dave]

The leaders of governments are put in place by a fundamentally emotionally-driven populace, and therefor make decisions based on egotistical desires.

You make it sound as if the populace intentionally chooses the next government because they know it is a good move. Man – I totally disagree with that statement. Never has a new government been chosen by the people in order to promote themselves. Instead, the absolute opposite is true. New governments are formed through dissatisfaction with the previous regime. No one knows what the new government will look like in its end form, but the hope is that it must be better than the current option.

The French Revolution is a perfect example. Life for the common man was so disagreeable, that anything other than the monarchy had to be better. They installed a republic with absolute no idea of how to manage it. It took the French 50 years of turmoil to sort it out for themselves.

Hitler deliberately made conditions with Germany unbearable, so he could offer himself as a better option. Lein in Russia. Even George Washington in America. No one had a clue of what a democratic republic would be like. That is exactly why they called the American experiment.

This is why we must rely on the clinical logic of psychological manipulation to influence constituents of society to put in place the correct leaders: leaders who know that power structures are but social constructions that fulfill a useful purpose. Leaders who can control a populace not through such fanciful ideals as democracy or violence, but rather through benevolent manipulation.

You have just described current day America. The media elects our leaders. psychological manipulation via the media – not to mention, federally funded, public education. Obama was sold to us. Not one of his initial promises have been fulfilled except to increase our welfare state. He is not the leader of the population, but rather a spokesperson for the New World Order agenda. A One World Government cannot happen along as there are superpowers standing. American must be downsized in the world and the UDS removed as the global currency and this has exactly been the legacy of the current administration.

Leaders who can control a populace not through such fanciful ideals as democracy or violence, but rather through benevolent manipulation. Sounds exactly like Obamacare to me. - Bait and switch!

I don’t say this to bash Obama, I have not been an active supporter of the American Federal Government since Reagan. Since then, I have become a truther and see our government and the New World Order in an entirely new light.

Woodrow Wilson won his presidency on the platform of staying out of Europe’s war. Four months later 400,000 American troops are in Europe. The claim is that the Lusitania did not carry weapons, yet, one German torpedo caused 4 different explosions and it became one of the fastest sinking ships in history. psychological manipulation

The attack on Pearl Harbor was a complete and total surprise, even though Hawaiian newspapers ran editorial about the possibility for two week prior to the event. psychological manipulation

The Gulf of Tonkin Incident was an absolute lie. psychological manipulation

Some guy in an Afghanistan cave was personally responsible for 911, so America invades Iraq. psychological manipulation

Yet, you think it is a good thing – how curious?

[Richard]

In reference to your suggested article:

“A relatively small group of companies, mainly banks, have a disproportionate power over the global economy.” - www.newscientist.com/article/mg21....l#.Uo8N-8 RQEdQ

Watch this:

[unknown]

Oh, there is definitely corporate conspiracies going on. But I ask you this: What is worse, corporations controlling us to make money, or governments (who have a vested interest in our -for lack of a better word- happiness) controlling us to regulate our interaction with the world?

The US is certainly a sham; a system setup almost entirely by Edward Bernays. I agree with you there. I disagree that Christian values are something that should be worked toward. The idea of God seems completely naive to me. But I'm sure I wont make any impact on you by explaining why.

I have to come clean and say that my initial post is somewhat sarcastic. Inspiered, you could say, by Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal." The argument I make is basically one of a utopia controlled by a philosopher king...obviously something that wont happen.

But the underlying point I am trying to make is that a One World Government would be a very efficient way to mitigate social problems. A government devoid of ridiculous borders and idiotic patriotism. A government for people, not power. Maybe that's utopian as well.

[Dave]

Nov 22, 2013 18:03:27 GMT -5 @unknown said:

I disagree that Christian values are something that should be worked toward. The idea of God seems completely naive to me. But I'm sure I wont make any impact on you by explaining why.

I would love to hear it -

Remember, I am not a Roman Christian - although, I think you can find enough reference within this forum to know that I am a multidimensioalist and consider the first dimensional singularity the omnipotent and omniscience foundation of all creation, that then, spread into the omnipresent matrix that is the base matrix of our 3D experience. The very definition of my 3D physicality yields a trinity of hierarchy that is only supported by the Judeo-Christian framework.

[Dave]

Nov 22, 2013 18:03:27 GMT -5 @unknown said:

But the underlying point I am trying to make is that a One World Government would be a very efficient way to mitigate social problems. A government devoid of ridiculous borders and idiotic patriotism. A government for people, not power. Maybe that's utopian as well.

I absolutely agree! Sounds really nice! AND - it would be the best way to manage dwindling natural resources.

However, the problem with the "only one option" is what happens if you find yourself innocently on the wrong side of that option.

Example - ethnic cleansing / genocide has been seen as a viable option to eliminate problem areas all throughout history. Who do you turn to, who do you ask help from, if you wake up one day and discover you are a member of the wrong ethnic group?

Commander Spock said - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Nice statement and probably valid point. Yet, your/my opinion just might change if we are determined to be that few. What about our individual right to life and liberty?

I guess I am thinking in terms of Islam.