Post by Dave on Jun 24, 2020 16:10:22 GMT -5
Q1: If Adam and Eve were mere mortals that would die of old age eventually - then all of scripture is void
Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
OK – Agree – cannot do both – that was the Contest - choose
If Adam and Eve were destine to die of old age anyway
God lied – according to you
Q2: Who did Jesus preach to? If everyone is asleep?
I suspect the phrase "spirits in prison" is a Hebrew idiom, meaning people trapped in their sins, who are lived on the earth, not people you assume to be dead with souls living.
Sorry - Now I don't feel so bad about Gen 1:26
1Pe 3:18 For Messiah once suffered for sins also—the righteous for the unrighteous—in order to bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Ruach.
1Pe 3:19 Through the Ruach He also went and preached to the spirits in prison.
1Pe 3:20 Long ago they disobeyed while God kept waiting patiently, in the days of Noah as the ark was being built. In that ark a few (that is, eight souls) were brought safely through water.
These people are dead and burried - Hades
These are not First Fruit of Christ - They pre-date The Flood
They are not sleeping in a grave - they are available to preach to
Q3: Why aren’t the Rich man and Lazareth asleep in Luke 16
This is a parable,
Your parable of the Family of God is more powerful than the reality
But parables by Jesus Christ are meaningless – just disregard Jesus
Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
And He shared many of them after the resurrection – but you deny this – call it junk
Q4: Generally most people who die are asleep in the ground, have some been raised to life?
OH – I have a cosmology for this – easy – and fit all applications
You go around address all the exceptions to your theology
Enoch is an example of the translated who walk right into heaven, as a fully alive person, never seeing death at all.
Elijah is an another example of this, also snatched as a firebrand from the fire, for heaven without dying.
Mt 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
We could specualte who these mght be, but they are first fruits of those raised to Jesus, all fully human, with bodies, character and the HS empowering them with living.
Gosh who else could they be? Imposters in heaven? Or just memories of the past?
Q5: Question: Does the "nephesh apart from the flesh" go to heaven, or did these "nephesh with their flesh" go to heaven, which is it?
The soul was created before the foundation of the world
It is mated with a mortal body at conception
That soul experiences a physicial souljourn
Upon physical death – the soul returns to God
Q6: Your point - once your dead you are in the grave sleeping
Yes
But you do not explain how there can be so many people in heaven
Q7: only your memories went to heaven with the HS
Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (HS) shall return unto God who gave it.
So – you are changing you position on this – now our spirit goes to heaven
Soul = locality
Spirit – soul in motion – spirit
Soul resides – spirit moves
First soul resided in heaven
Then souljourn in a man body
Then returns to God
Q8: My point - once we die we / our souls /
that thing that makes us=us
(the only Hebrew word for this is Ruwach - HS)
You are not in agreement with your own answer above
Q9 : we live in heaven
No.
Again – there is no people in heaven – the very question I am begging you to answer
You are taking ownership of the Ruwach.
Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
No mortal man has power over spirit – Agree
No mortal man has control over the day of his death – Agree
And this proves there are no men in heaven – how?
Q10: You absolutely reject this idea and replace it with a very long winded story about the HS only takes out memories
Nothing long winded about Scripture studies.
Yet - You still have not answer any of these questions consistently
You don’t answer because you do not know – this is what you say to me
Q11: the whole family in heaven"
The bane elohiym were in heaven - are these the brothers of Christ? Scripture doesn't say
You don’t answer because you do not know - don't fit your theology
The angels are in heaven - they have names -
Some angels have names, so we can assume they all have names
Q12: So answer the question – are they brothers of Christ in your family – or nephews
If they are brothers of Christ – then you validate Mormonism that declare that Jesus and satan are twins
You don’t answer because you do not know- don't fit your theology
Q13: "How does this mortal style family work?
the whole family in heaven : ie Divine Family of ELohiym, is different to angel family or human family.
Jesus says the human family in heaven are not to marry or be given in marriage, once in heaven, they live like angels, so whatever this means? I am not sure...
So God and the HS are a married couple – but no one marries in heaven
I am sure I follow your logic - doesn't fit your own theology
Q14:"One more Question - If there are no men in heaven ever - because men just sleep in the grave awaiting to be resurrected
Yes many humans have been raised (fully) with flesh, bodies, character, HS empowering them, thus nephesh.
I am glad to see you have changed you theology
Q15:"Let’s revisit 1 Sam 28
Q16: "Therefore - God is using the demons / archon as a tool to facilitate God Will
NO.
Satan does, the Opposer.
OK – the Opposer uses the demons to facilitate God Will
Meaning – satan is in God’s service
Q17: "This puts satan and all the archon in God’s service
Why do you suppose "doing Ra" is good, and therefore a service to God?
So your theology = we are living in satan plan for man – it is satan’s will that dominates all creation
Your placing your trust in the wrong God
Q18: "If a few symbols prove Catholics are Islamic - then these symbols must also prove Christianity is nothing more than more Gnostic Junk
Scripture is full of symbols too. Discern how you use them. Do not be deceived.
I say – I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who is the Christ
Jesus was a Jew – the ahl is for the Jew – the First Christians were Jewish
Rome – did it best to quash all of this – and replace it with Catholicism?
You agree – and even go father saying there is no difference between a religion that says God has a Son and a religion that says God has no son
Yet – you defend catholic doctrine to the last breath
This is part of the reason you are so conflicted
We began speaking long ago about your difficulty of Praying in the Spirit
Yet – you dent the Spirit
Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
OK – Agree – cannot do both – that was the Contest - choose
If Adam and Eve were destine to die of old age anyway
God lied – according to you
Q2: Who did Jesus preach to? If everyone is asleep?
I suspect the phrase "spirits in prison" is a Hebrew idiom, meaning people trapped in their sins, who are lived on the earth, not people you assume to be dead with souls living.
Sorry - Now I don't feel so bad about Gen 1:26
1Pe 3:18 For Messiah once suffered for sins also—the righteous for the unrighteous—in order to bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Ruach.
1Pe 3:19 Through the Ruach He also went and preached to the spirits in prison.
1Pe 3:20 Long ago they disobeyed while God kept waiting patiently, in the days of Noah as the ark was being built. In that ark a few (that is, eight souls) were brought safely through water.
These people are dead and burried - Hades
These are not First Fruit of Christ - They pre-date The Flood
They are not sleeping in a grave - they are available to preach to
Q3: Why aren’t the Rich man and Lazareth asleep in Luke 16
This is a parable,
Your parable of the Family of God is more powerful than the reality
But parables by Jesus Christ are meaningless – just disregard Jesus
Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
And He shared many of them after the resurrection – but you deny this – call it junk
Q4: Generally most people who die are asleep in the ground, have some been raised to life?
OH – I have a cosmology for this – easy – and fit all applications
You go around address all the exceptions to your theology
Enoch is an example of the translated who walk right into heaven, as a fully alive person, never seeing death at all.
Elijah is an another example of this, also snatched as a firebrand from the fire, for heaven without dying.
Mt 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
We could specualte who these mght be, but they are first fruits of those raised to Jesus, all fully human, with bodies, character and the HS empowering them with living.
Gosh who else could they be? Imposters in heaven? Or just memories of the past?
Q5: Question: Does the "nephesh apart from the flesh" go to heaven, or did these "nephesh with their flesh" go to heaven, which is it?
The soul was created before the foundation of the world
It is mated with a mortal body at conception
That soul experiences a physicial souljourn
Upon physical death – the soul returns to God
Q6: Your point - once your dead you are in the grave sleeping
Yes
But you do not explain how there can be so many people in heaven
Q7: only your memories went to heaven with the HS
Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (HS) shall return unto God who gave it.
So – you are changing you position on this – now our spirit goes to heaven
Soul = locality
Spirit – soul in motion – spirit
Soul resides – spirit moves
First soul resided in heaven
Then souljourn in a man body
Then returns to God
Q8: My point - once we die we / our souls /
that thing that makes us=us
(the only Hebrew word for this is Ruwach - HS)
You are not in agreement with your own answer above
Q9 : we live in heaven
No.
Again – there is no people in heaven – the very question I am begging you to answer
You are taking ownership of the Ruwach.
Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
No mortal man has power over spirit – Agree
No mortal man has control over the day of his death – Agree
And this proves there are no men in heaven – how?
Q10: You absolutely reject this idea and replace it with a very long winded story about the HS only takes out memories
Nothing long winded about Scripture studies.
Yet - You still have not answer any of these questions consistently
You don’t answer because you do not know – this is what you say to me
Q11: the whole family in heaven"
The bane elohiym were in heaven - are these the brothers of Christ? Scripture doesn't say
You don’t answer because you do not know - don't fit your theology
The angels are in heaven - they have names -
Some angels have names, so we can assume they all have names
Q12: So answer the question – are they brothers of Christ in your family – or nephews
If they are brothers of Christ – then you validate Mormonism that declare that Jesus and satan are twins
You don’t answer because you do not know- don't fit your theology
Q13: "How does this mortal style family work?
the whole family in heaven : ie Divine Family of ELohiym, is different to angel family or human family.
Jesus says the human family in heaven are not to marry or be given in marriage, once in heaven, they live like angels, so whatever this means? I am not sure...
So God and the HS are a married couple – but no one marries in heaven
I am sure I follow your logic - doesn't fit your own theology
Q14:"One more Question - If there are no men in heaven ever - because men just sleep in the grave awaiting to be resurrected
Yes many humans have been raised (fully) with flesh, bodies, character, HS empowering them, thus nephesh.
I am glad to see you have changed you theology
Q15:"Let’s revisit 1 Sam 28
Q16: "Therefore - God is using the demons / archon as a tool to facilitate God Will
NO.
Satan does, the Opposer.
OK – the Opposer uses the demons to facilitate God Will
Meaning – satan is in God’s service
Q17: "This puts satan and all the archon in God’s service
Why do you suppose "doing Ra" is good, and therefore a service to God?
So your theology = we are living in satan plan for man – it is satan’s will that dominates all creation
Your placing your trust in the wrong God
Q18: "If a few symbols prove Catholics are Islamic - then these symbols must also prove Christianity is nothing more than more Gnostic Junk
Scripture is full of symbols too. Discern how you use them. Do not be deceived.
I say – I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who is the Christ
Jesus was a Jew – the ahl is for the Jew – the First Christians were Jewish
Rome – did it best to quash all of this – and replace it with Catholicism?
You agree – and even go father saying there is no difference between a religion that says God has a Son and a religion that says God has no son
Yet – you defend catholic doctrine to the last breath
This is part of the reason you are so conflicted
We began speaking long ago about your difficulty of Praying in the Spirit
Yet – you dent the Spirit