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Post by Virginia on Jun 6, 2012 10:00:22 GMT -5
I left the Mormon church for many reasons. I felt there was too much in secret going on. I was not allowed to go to the temple because my husband was not a member of the church. I felt they wanted to control every minute of your life. There were meetings every minute. Meetings to think about meetings, meetings to plan meetings, meeting to attend meetings. Sometimes two, three, four meetings all scheduled for the same time. Church on Sundays was at least a three hour affair. Mormon's believe in three levels of heaven, maybe even four. I only remember three. The tellestial-----terrestial---and the celestial. Not many goto the celestial because you would need to be perfect. You would need tohave followed all the rules for the temple, have paid every penny of tithing. and have followed all the rules of the church.
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Post by Richard on Jun 6, 2012 10:32:33 GMT -5
Congratulation!
I love your post!! I left my protestant church for exactly many of the same reasons. Any time you are trapped into a list of things to do you are trapped with religion. Religion is man's creation. Or perhaps the Devil's creation that man easily falls into.
Faith is entirely different. Belief has nothing to do with lists of things to do. The example of OT vs NT is the perfect metaphor. The OT is referred to as the Law, while the NT is referred to as the Gospel. Gospel meaning message not a book.
The OT begins with 10 Commandments and then followed by law after law of dos and don'ts. The most orthodox Jews today wont even drive a car or use a phone on the sabbath.
The NT has many stories and parables that get preached on Sunday. many christians think they are better off if they can impress you with the amount of scripture they can quote - or the number of meeting they attend. But, in actuality Christ boils it all down to 2 simple requirements. Love one another as I have loved you - and - seek ye first the kingdom of God.
On the surface this still seems like 2 things to do Love and Seek. However, I see it this way = the first thing required, even by Christ's statement, is to seek ye first the kingdom of God. This is the requirement! But how do puny little humans do that? Well, no one can seek enlightenment with emotional baggage dragging them down. If I am busy hating and lusting, or burdened with regret and doubt; I am focused on this reality not the next. If I am stuck in the physical, how can I ever hope to develop the spiritual? So, what tools can I use to let the baggage of the world go? Years of counseling? Or is it as simple as 'love one another as I have loved you?'
Did you follow the story about the guy in Pennsylvania that shot those Amish school girls? There was a movie made about it afterward. One of the most amazing scenes in that movie was when the wife of the gunman asked an Amish mother, who daughter was shot dead, how she could forgive the gunman. The Amish mother's answer was absolutely the most profound Christian thing I have ever heard.
She simply said, 'When she feels herself hating the gunman - she stops and ask Christ to help her forgive and she give it to the Lord.' The people around her look at her in disbelief that it could ever be that simple. Then she says, 'Then I take one step and I have to stop and do it again. Then I take another step and have to stop to do it again, and again, and again.'
So many people are under the impression that all you have to do it get on your knees once, believe, and your life changes forever. What a false message is this. The trick is that each day we need to walk, step by step, giving it to God through Christ. Otherwise we would have to shut ourselves away in a Tibetan Mountain Top somewhere, existing only on bread and water, in constant meditation; only to discover that it can not be done by yourself.
Faith has nothing to do with things, or rules (laws).
Religion, regardless of what name or denomination you call it, is just a club to join.
Now don't misunderstand me, I am not specifically Mormon bashing. I come down hard on all organized religious groups equally hard. The only difference is that some groups do intend to push the people in the right direction, while others simply confuse the masses and keep them away from the true path.
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Stella
Junior Member
Use me O Lord
Posts: 62
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Post by Stella on Jun 6, 2012 17:04:54 GMT -5
Wouldn't it have been nice to be a Christian back in the first 200 years after Christ. people just worshiped without being told the correct way to do it.
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Post by Virginia on Jun 6, 2012 17:19:07 GMT -5
The Mormon church would sent teachers as they called them to visit each person once a month. One time I said I was reading the Book of Mormon cover to cover. Can you believe what they told me? "We don't want you to do that". We only want you to know what the elders tell you. I said I had a problem just taking everything on faith. Well they left and never came back.I still cannot just accept everything on faith.
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Divine
New Member
Peace to all
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Post by Divine on Jun 6, 2012 17:28:18 GMT -5
Virginia, Wow! I was totally amazed with what I was reading and learned from this discussion. I have no idea that the teachings are a little bit weird in a sense that they believe in Jesus but they also think that His brother is Lucifer.  ?, I find it like what??? really??? is this for real? Specially when I saw in you tube the explanation about Mormonism. It's quite hard for me to believe that they teach like this. People are really searching for the real God but sadly there's a lot of false teachings out there. it's just so happen that some people believed in what they thought is right but when you search the bible its not the true teaching. I haven't seen it in the bible that Jesus is the brother of Lucifer. There's a lot of teachings and preachings that we learn in the different churches that are not really related to what the bible says. It's scary. We should read the Bible because we will learn the truth. |
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Post by Dave on Jun 6, 2012 18:11:30 GMT -5
Virginia,
So, they didn't want you to read it. Imagine that. Just believe what you are told - boy have I heard that before. No one here is asking anyone to believe anything, especially on faith alone. Questions are who we are! I probably would have been right there standing next to Thomas full of doubt.
There are very few things I accept on faith alone. Even these things I have tested over and over. The rest I group into a category termed Cosmology and all that is open for discussion. Even those few thing I accept by faith alone are open for debate; and if anyone can convince me otherwise, those few things may change.
Divine
We should read the Bible because we will learn the truth.
I understand your point. However, the Bible itself does not contain all information.- AND - My next comment is - which Bible? Mormon Bible? Bishops Bible? Ethiopian Orthodox? Coptic? or King James? Then once you have read the Bible where would you turn for help understanding what you have read? In all organized church based groups, that answer is always to a commentary written by some man 300 - 600 yrs ago. Calvin, John Wesley, Matthew Henery, and many many more. Which text do you choose? To which text do you limit yourself to? This question is at the very heart of the Gnostic approach. We (meaning Gnostics) include all of it. Add to that science and all evidence from reality. Throw it all in and mix it up and see what truth surfaces.
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Stella
Junior Member
Use me O Lord
Posts: 62
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Post by Stella on Jun 7, 2012 13:32:20 GMT -5
Why add science? Isn't scripture enough for you? Arn't you afraid from getting off track?
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Post by Dave on Jun 7, 2012 13:50:55 GMT -5
All creation must witness to the Creator I have never understood the reasoning behind the war between science and the church. Could / can science ever disprove God?
The amazing thing about science today is that in its own way it is beginning to support scripture.
Whole earth Decompression Theory (J. Marvin Herndon Ph.D. 2005) leads to my theory of FD-WEDT which support the global flood of Noah.
Einstein's special theory of Relativity supports 2 Peter 3:8
Evolutions quest for a theory of Macorstatus - is looking for the exploitation of how many species simply appear without evolutionary steps to lower forms.
String Theory present a reality of 10 dimensions of space which, in my opinion, supports scripture in so many ways - especially discussion of the Trinity.
The more evidence - the more support for scripture - and that is the end goal here.
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Post by mandcshepherd on Jun 7, 2012 13:58:28 GMT -5
Wow, Virginia. I'm not sure where you went to church but you are way off. I am a devout Mormon & the church strongly encourages scripture study, both from the Book of Mormon & the Bible. I'm really sorry if you had terrible local leaders but the church as a whole does not believe that way. You should never just take anyone's word & the church doesn't teach that. A person should study the scriptures & pray to know what is true. God has promised to answer our prayers so that we may know the truth. As far as temples you would not be denied access because your husband was not a member. Permission to enter the temple is based purely on your own worthiness. Yes, tithing is a requirement because all that we have is given to us by God & we are commanded to give 10% back. Tithing is spoken of in the Bible & is not exclusive to the mormon church. I'm not trying to convince anyone of my beliefs on here but I hope you all would truly investigate the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or Mormon church before judging it. I would be happy to tell you anything you want to know.
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Post by Dave on Jun 7, 2012 14:25:24 GMT -5
A person should study the scriptures & pray to know what is true. God has promised to answer our prayers so that we may know the truth.
Well said - well said indeed.Study - pray - or as my Muslim explained to me recite (which doesn't mean repeat to them it means consider and understand.) Everyone here is welcome - the basic premise here is that we are all wrong - none of us know the answer - we each have our own beliefs. My friend Ali and I have just agreed to disagree respectfully. He is not a Christian and I am not a Muslim. Yet our conversations together has taught us both a lot about each other. You can not discuss biology without evoking chemistry - both different - but both dependent to the conversation. How can any of us learn anything if we are busy 'not considering all the information - or all the data' Richard said a very nice thing to me over at the discussion about my book being turned down for formal review. Not because of its content or conclusions, but just because of its title. Richard said, As soon as you are taught that something is impossible or incorrect - you are taught - conditioned - to have a closed mind. |
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Stella
Junior Member
Use me O Lord
Posts: 62
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Post by Stella on Jun 7, 2012 14:47:13 GMT -5
Dear mandcshepherd,
I am an active member of my Mennonite Church. I have never even been interested in the Mormon Church, but I have always been told that Mormons believe that Christ and Lucifer are brothers and that God is a man, or once was a man. Is this wrong?
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Stella
Junior Member
Use me O Lord
Posts: 62
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Post by Stella on Jun 7, 2012 14:50:16 GMT -5
I agree with the idea that all creation witnesses to the Creator. But doesn't science try to actively leave God out of it. It all just evolved from nothing by itself?
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Post by Dave on Jun 7, 2012 19:21:18 GMT -5
As I stated before:
All creation must witness to the Creator I have never understood the reasoning behind the war between science and the church. Could / can science ever disprove God?
The amazing thing about science today is that in its own way it is beginning to support scripture.
All my life I have heard references to us living in the 21st Century. The horse and buggy days are gone forever. We have been to the moon. Well guess what? We are now living in the 22nd century! Perhaps it is time to heal the division between science and scripture. In the past more and more science people left the church - today they are coming back - WHY? Perhaps they are beginning to notice subtle things like "Intelligent Design," "Macrostatus," and the reality of "non-linear time."
There is also the trend to "full disclosure" meaning UFOs and little green men. Someone needs to stand and scream that this trend toward "full disclosure" is also scriptural. I wish I could find a statistic somewhere that compared the number between those that believe in UFOs vs those that Believe in God. I bet the numbers would surprise everyone! And when I say those that believe in God - I am not referring to the numbers of people that go to church, because church attendance has nothing to do with belief or faith.
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Post by Dillon on Jun 7, 2012 20:59:42 GMT -5
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Post by Virginia on Jun 8, 2012 8:06:17 GMT -5
This is directed to Mandcshepherd. My teenage son was given special permission to go to the Temple withotherteenagers todo "Baptism For The Dead". Other than baptism for the dead what else goes on at the Temple? I understand you are given a spiritial name that you need topresent to God when you stand before him. What is your spiritial name?
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